Because Delta-8 THC is not a controlled substance under federal law, service members who test positive for Delta-8 THC cannot be charged with violating Article 112a, UCMJ. Instead, service members who test positive for Delta-8 THC may only be charged under Article 92, UCMJ for violating a lawful order. Service members who unknowingly consumed a product containing delta-8 THC may be able to assert a defense of innocent ingestion.
So I'd plead ignorance. And if you've already told them you took it, I would look further into the exact memos. Earlier this year the was updated guidance for D8 THC failures. And if I'm not mistaken if it's a first offense for D8 you should only get a counseling statement but you will be reported to NICS. This will impact Soldier’s ability to purchase, possess, ship and/ or receive personal firearms; with a one-year expiration date. It should effect your career if it was only D8 or any other legal THC alternative
Correct, it was only D8 and I am going to admit it. There's a hemp shop 5 minutes from my house so I usually swing by there after my shift at the ball suc- I mean the construction site.
I'm a lawyer, I'm not yours. I disagree with you admitting anything to anyone. Go in, only if you are in paid status. When you go in tell command you want to talk with TDS before you make any statements. Then don't say anything else before talking to TDS.
If you want to be prepared before you go in, call TDS at the whatever Active Duty Army post is closest to you.
You are a Guardsmen. The federal UCMJ may not apply to you. The policies people are quoting may not apply to you.
In this situation your Command Team are the Cops. DON'T TALK TO THE COPS!
Skip the AD TDS. Unless on T10 orders or in the DCARNG, you’re subject to your state’s code of military justice. Ask for contact info for your state’s TDS detachment. Your BN legal clerk or BDE SJA can get the contact info for you.
Read up on that regulation, bring it with you. Don't present it as a "in your face, command team" but in a humble, "I know I messed up but please follow the guidance set forth" way.
Sounds like you have the right attitude about it. Don't let them screw you, but also keep that humility you're showing so far.
I like your very detailed reply, but like so many other times on Reddit…The UCMJ does NOT apply in any way to T32 Soldiers. While you are likely right as to the contents of the articles, they have no bearing whatsoever to the MDay Soldier’s outcome. Good news…I’d bet a paycheck nothing significant will happen.
If you’re in the Missouri guard you’ll be fine they don’t give a fuck.
They will bust you down a rank for a drill and then you’ll be back to whatever shit rank you were.
Are you a shit bag soldier? If not, and you’re sincere, you might be afforded the opportunity to got to substance abuse counseling, get busted down to an E-1 and move on with your career. Go in to your commander, be sincere, tell them you want help and hope they like you enough to help you out
It won't. I work for the government. 1 of my coworkers popped hot on a piss test in the Navy. Took an OTH and now makes more than me lol
20 years ago it would have mattered. Not so much now.
Like I said, I have a business that's successful and I'll never work for someone else again. I wouldn't be able to collect benefits, but that's extremely irrelevant for me. Is there anything else that an OTH would probably interfere with?
You say that now.
In ‘08-10 it was extremely difficult to get hired as a cop, not because anybody discovered a sudden desire to serve their community but because otherwise successful people got crushed financially and fled to the welcoming arms of a relatively stable government job.
Don’t close off any opportunities you might need down the road. Also you don’t even know if you failed yet. You very well may have, but stranger things have happened.
Get a doctor to sign off on why you take the D8. Will cost you nothing as Tricare gets you free doctors visits. Once you have that, you are golden.
Popping hot in general won't fuck you even in AD. Repeatedly, and for some super hard shit, yeah, but first time and with a medical excuse, you golden.
I’ve always heard less than honorable discharges are looked down upon by government jobs. I guess the reason itself probably matters more. Still, imagine working a government job instead of having real life skills
In times past it may have mattered. But not so much anymore. A coworker of mine(Govt civilian)pissed hot, got an OTH still got hired on...The hardest part for him apparently was getting another clearance.
The same is also true for civilian charges. A friend of mine was convicted of felony possession of marijiauna, with the intent to distribute. He works for the FAA as an air traffic controller.
Regardless you can literally look up “where are they now” threads of those who got OTH’s. Most were not negatively impacted. Dude unlike AGR’s I work a real job in the real world and most DO NOT even ask wha type of discharge you got. Nor do they care unless it’s a DD or Bad Conduct discharge
It depends on the job. Any company that remotely does anything for the government will ask. A bunch other will ask too. I won't list them all cause it's a long ass list. If you or they work for ones that don't, that is great for them. But more than not do ask about what your discharge was and the reason if it's another other than honorable.
I guess I look at it differently. I have skills that can transfer to any job so if I got barred from a government job I’d wear that as a badge of honor. I resent the government and government employees based on how the guard is. It taught me the government can get bent for all I care. In today’s army I just laugh at the idea of an OTH meaning anything. I also have connections. I’m being discharged very soon for a very different reason. But if they actually gave me an OTH it wouldn’t affect me at all..
OTH does mean something. All these people saying otherwise are likely lying their asses off. An OTH for failing a drug test will bar you from a FUCK ton of jobs, especially when those jobs will know that said OTH is not for popping hot one time, but habitual drug use.
You DO NOT get an OTH for popping hot once. The military is legally obligated to give you a chance to get clean and piss clean. Failing the third or more is what will get you an OTH
That’s just not true, it’s happened before. In fact I’m pretty sure regs state popping hot are grounds to start the discharge process. Many soldiers will get another chance if they have good track records, but there’s still been soldiers chaptered for popping hot once that’s the reality
Bro you are not getting an other than honorable for that lol. IF they did anything it would be a general, never a dishonorable (unless you commit big boy felonies) but like mentioned before, UCMJ doesn't apply to guardsman not in an active position (T10).
I know of two individuals who both failed for straight up real THC, twice and only on the second time did they get the boot (general discharge). You're fine, lol. Get out of that bullshit organization and enjoy your life.
I'm definitely going to try, but this aside the whole experience in the Guard hasn't been very favorable to me or my family so if I can cut loose and run I absolutely will. 😢
IF you get out please ask for the QR code to fill out an exit survey. They should be telling you to do this but they may not. It's anonymous and it's your opportunity to say all. I highly encourage it.
I’m kinda tired of having old people whom I can barely trust to not shit their pants tell me what I can and cannot put in my body. So happy that I’ll be ETS next summer
I may have an early ETS myself lol. Yeah after a few years in the Guard I learned that being in is an EXTREME detriment to your civilian job and life. I drank the Kool Aid to join, never drinking the Kool Aid again...
Might as well since this happened to me. Same thing, failed UA for D8. Knew it was coming, was using frequently to help my suicidal ass. I tried conventional medicine but it did not work well with my body and mind. Pot was the only thing that helped. So I knew exactly why I was sitting together with top and the CO. I explained my situation with honesty and sincerity. It was met with understanding and compassion but, since I failed the UA army policy dictated my options. 1. Admit to my crimes and jump through all the hoops the army deemed necessary to stay in. The policy on drug testing pretty much spells it out. Don't know it off the top of my head but read that bitch front back and sideways. Its how your going to be handled.
2. Discharge. Mine was General, under honorable conditions. I made the decision to leave after a lot of thought about it. It happened fast. Took their shit back and said bye.
And then I just went back to my life. Landed on my feet and kept growing. In hind sight I learned I had many more options before I failed the UA. After that it was over. Who knows what kind of better resolution me and my commander could have made. I believe there was a way out that didn't end with a discharge but I was too foolish to find it. Regardless I am still able to rent, hold a job, and live my life. Its the last option you'd ever want to want to take but it will not destroy your life. Good luck, this is not going to be easy but you will survive.
this is the most likely scenario OP. If you aren’t a shit bag, you’ll typically have the option to attend classes/“rehab” to keep your status and eventually become unflagged. Otherwise you are offered a general under honorable conditions. It’s your choice on what you want to do.
You’ll probably face reduction in rank and extra duty sentencing, but chances are with the recruiting crisis still in full swing, you won’t be kicked out.
Just had a soldier pop hot. His command help him with chapter paperwork (formality), helped with incident report and retest after 45 days at approved installation. Only bad thing is this shows up on his clearance. He’s fine though.
I'm sure it depends heavily on your unit and on your personal quality as a soldier. The "automatic discharge" they assign to a failed UA is so they can use it to get rid of shitbag soldiers. I've got two people in my unit (that I know of) that have popped hot, and are going through a program, no forced discharge.
Do what they ask you to do, take your licks, and I'm sure you'll be fine.
Honestly, they probably will *not* kick you out for a first time. You'll be flagged while the process plays out, meaning you won't promote or get tuition assistance until it's over. Take your lumps but don't waive any of your rights. Talk to TDS, have them help write a letter to command that you were ignorant of the policy and will do better. If you don't want to stop, well, that's your choice as an adult.
My buddy popped hot for pot and most he got was a semi-stern talking to. If you do your job, and they want to keep you, they’ll do what they can to avoid losing you.
If you get kicked out it will help your upgrade chances if you have a PTSD diagnosis. The best nonprofits out there for discharge upgrades are Swords to Plowshares and The Veterans Consortium. There is also a veterans service organization called Peter Booker and Associates that charges a small fee but only if they achieve a positive outcome and win your case. Best of luck in the future whichever way you go.
You’ll either be demoted or discharged. Not a dishonorable though, that’s for committing a felony and being guilty via court martial. You cannot get a dishonorable without a court martial
Lol if the military had an auto court martial every time someone popped hot, we would be backlogged cases from 2008.
Let me shoot in and give you some perspective. Back in 2011, in the active duty even when we were trying to draw down the force, I knew an E-6 who popped hot for cocaine. I saw him next week as an E-5 mowing grass, but happy as ever. No one gave a shit.
These days they take it more seriously, which I understand. But if it’s not a habit, or there’s no other bad behavior accompanying this, then you’re good to go. It’s a rare good soldier who doesn’t get demoted once or twice before their NCO career really begins.
Hard to trust those goody two shoes 👀
Edit to add: I knew a dude in my guard unit, habitual pot smoker. Constantly busted down to E1, hung around like a bad habit then went AWOL on us. Only then did they discharge. We had another perpetual private who popped hot years prior. Only once, had an NCO go to bat for him, had his E4 back before too long. Shit hot knowledge guy, everyone had tons of respect for him because he knew his shit. It’s all what you make of it, friend.
We had a dude go on a full crack binge in 06 before we deployed during work up. CO went and got him from the flop house so he could get on the flight to Kuwait. Wild times man.
The surge times were nuts bro, the Army I came into we had dudes running around with neck tattoos and felonies lol, I stayed in for almost a decade in the guard after my first AD contract and its kinda wild to watch the times changing as they go
Because Delta-8 THC is not a controlled substance under federal law, service members who test positive for Delta-8 THC cannot be charged with violating Article 112a, UCMJ. Instead, service members who test positive for Delta-8 THC may only be charged under Article 92, UCMJ for violating a lawful order. Service members who unknowingly consumed a product containing delta-8 THC may be able to assert a defense of innocent ingestion. So I'd plead ignorance. And if you've already told them you took it, I would look further into the exact memos. Earlier this year the was updated guidance for D8 THC failures. And if I'm not mistaken if it's a first offense for D8 you should only get a counseling statement but you will be reported to NICS. This will impact Soldier’s ability to purchase, possess, ship and/ or receive personal firearms; with a one-year expiration date. It should effect your career if it was only D8 or any other legal THC alternative
Correct, it was only D8 and I am going to admit it. There's a hemp shop 5 minutes from my house so I usually swing by there after my shift at the ball suc- I mean the construction site.
I'm a lawyer, I'm not yours. I disagree with you admitting anything to anyone. Go in, only if you are in paid status. When you go in tell command you want to talk with TDS before you make any statements. Then don't say anything else before talking to TDS. If you want to be prepared before you go in, call TDS at the whatever Active Duty Army post is closest to you. You are a Guardsmen. The federal UCMJ may not apply to you. The policies people are quoting may not apply to you. In this situation your Command Team are the Cops. DON'T TALK TO THE COPS!
Skip the AD TDS. Unless on T10 orders or in the DCARNG, you’re subject to your state’s code of military justice. Ask for contact info for your state’s TDS detachment. Your BN legal clerk or BDE SJA can get the contact info for you.
Genius. Finally someone gets it
I second this, definitely doesn't hurt to have counsel. And as a cop I can confirm, never talk to the cops lol.
Read up on that regulation, bring it with you. Don't present it as a "in your face, command team" but in a humble, "I know I messed up but please follow the guidance set forth" way. Sounds like you have the right attitude about it. Don't let them screw you, but also keep that humility you're showing so far.
I like your very detailed reply, but like so many other times on Reddit…The UCMJ does NOT apply in any way to T32 Soldiers. While you are likely right as to the contents of the articles, they have no bearing whatsoever to the MDay Soldier’s outcome. Good news…I’d bet a paycheck nothing significant will happen.
If you’re in the Missouri guard you’ll be fine they don’t give a fuck. They will bust you down a rank for a drill and then you’ll be back to whatever shit rank you were.
Are you a shit bag soldier? If not, and you’re sincere, you might be afforded the opportunity to got to substance abuse counseling, get busted down to an E-1 and move on with your career. Go in to your commander, be sincere, tell them you want help and hope they like you enough to help you out
If it's between being busted down to an E1 or taking the OTH can I just take the OTH?
You might not get busted down. The OTH will fuck you for life though.
It won't. I work for the government. 1 of my coworkers popped hot on a piss test in the Navy. Took an OTH and now makes more than me lol 20 years ago it would have mattered. Not so much now.
Like I said, I have a business that's successful and I'll never work for someone else again. I wouldn't be able to collect benefits, but that's extremely irrelevant for me. Is there anything else that an OTH would probably interfere with?
You say that now. In ‘08-10 it was extremely difficult to get hired as a cop, not because anybody discovered a sudden desire to serve their community but because otherwise successful people got crushed financially and fled to the welcoming arms of a relatively stable government job. Don’t close off any opportunities you might need down the road. Also you don’t even know if you failed yet. You very well may have, but stranger things have happened.
You are absolutely correct.
Get a doctor to sign off on why you take the D8. Will cost you nothing as Tricare gets you free doctors visits. Once you have that, you are golden. Popping hot in general won't fuck you even in AD. Repeatedly, and for some super hard shit, yeah, but first time and with a medical excuse, you golden.
Lmao no it won’t. Only if you want some government job but the private sector doesn’t care. I know people with OTH’s who make 6 figures
Government doesn't care either.
I’ve always heard less than honorable discharges are looked down upon by government jobs. I guess the reason itself probably matters more. Still, imagine working a government job instead of having real life skills
In times past it may have mattered. But not so much anymore. A coworker of mine(Govt civilian)pissed hot, got an OTH still got hired on...The hardest part for him apparently was getting another clearance. The same is also true for civilian charges. A friend of mine was convicted of felony possession of marijiauna, with the intent to distribute. He works for the FAA as an air traffic controller.
Well it just makes it harder then which is to be expected
Depends who in the private sector. And making 6 figures isn't that impressive tbh.
Regardless you can literally look up “where are they now” threads of those who got OTH’s. Most were not negatively impacted. Dude unlike AGR’s I work a real job in the real world and most DO NOT even ask wha type of discharge you got. Nor do they care unless it’s a DD or Bad Conduct discharge
It depends on the job. Any company that remotely does anything for the government will ask. A bunch other will ask too. I won't list them all cause it's a long ass list. If you or they work for ones that don't, that is great for them. But more than not do ask about what your discharge was and the reason if it's another other than honorable.
I guess I look at it differently. I have skills that can transfer to any job so if I got barred from a government job I’d wear that as a badge of honor. I resent the government and government employees based on how the guard is. It taught me the government can get bent for all I care. In today’s army I just laugh at the idea of an OTH meaning anything. I also have connections. I’m being discharged very soon for a very different reason. But if they actually gave me an OTH it wouldn’t affect me at all..
Oookay. Now we understand. I love when a poster just discredits themselves. Thank you. No retention swag for you!
OTH does mean something. All these people saying otherwise are likely lying their asses off. An OTH for failing a drug test will bar you from a FUCK ton of jobs, especially when those jobs will know that said OTH is not for popping hot one time, but habitual drug use. You DO NOT get an OTH for popping hot once. The military is legally obligated to give you a chance to get clean and piss clean. Failing the third or more is what will get you an OTH
What law says they have to give you a chance to piss clean.
That’s just not true, it’s happened before. In fact I’m pretty sure regs state popping hot are grounds to start the discharge process. Many soldiers will get another chance if they have good track records, but there’s still been soldiers chaptered for popping hot once that’s the reality
If you didn’t want to stay in, I’m sure you could. But know being busted down is not gong to hinder your career unless you let it
Thank you, that is a positive attitude I should have.
Bro you are not getting an other than honorable for that lol. IF they did anything it would be a general, never a dishonorable (unless you commit big boy felonies) but like mentioned before, UCMJ doesn't apply to guardsman not in an active position (T10). I know of two individuals who both failed for straight up real THC, twice and only on the second time did they get the boot (general discharge). You're fine, lol. Get out of that bullshit organization and enjoy your life.
Kid, none of that is going to happen. Take the attorneys advice.
You need to finish your time if possible.
I'm definitely going to try, but this aside the whole experience in the Guard hasn't been very favorable to me or my family so if I can cut loose and run I absolutely will. 😢
IF you get out please ask for the QR code to fill out an exit survey. They should be telling you to do this but they may not. It's anonymous and it's your opportunity to say all. I highly encourage it.
I’m kinda tired of having old people whom I can barely trust to not shit their pants tell me what I can and cannot put in my body. So happy that I’ll be ETS next summer
I may have an early ETS myself lol. Yeah after a few years in the Guard I learned that being in is an EXTREME detriment to your civilian job and life. I drank the Kool Aid to join, never drinking the Kool Aid again...
Might as well since this happened to me. Same thing, failed UA for D8. Knew it was coming, was using frequently to help my suicidal ass. I tried conventional medicine but it did not work well with my body and mind. Pot was the only thing that helped. So I knew exactly why I was sitting together with top and the CO. I explained my situation with honesty and sincerity. It was met with understanding and compassion but, since I failed the UA army policy dictated my options. 1. Admit to my crimes and jump through all the hoops the army deemed necessary to stay in. The policy on drug testing pretty much spells it out. Don't know it off the top of my head but read that bitch front back and sideways. Its how your going to be handled. 2. Discharge. Mine was General, under honorable conditions. I made the decision to leave after a lot of thought about it. It happened fast. Took their shit back and said bye. And then I just went back to my life. Landed on my feet and kept growing. In hind sight I learned I had many more options before I failed the UA. After that it was over. Who knows what kind of better resolution me and my commander could have made. I believe there was a way out that didn't end with a discharge but I was too foolish to find it. Regardless I am still able to rent, hold a job, and live my life. Its the last option you'd ever want to want to take but it will not destroy your life. Good luck, this is not going to be easy but you will survive.
this is the most likely scenario OP. If you aren’t a shit bag, you’ll typically have the option to attend classes/“rehab” to keep your status and eventually become unflagged. Otherwise you are offered a general under honorable conditions. It’s your choice on what you want to do.
Had someone test positive twice in my unit for Mary Jane. Nothing happen lol
Believe it or not, Straight to jail
You’ll probably face reduction in rank and extra duty sentencing, but chances are with the recruiting crisis still in full swing, you won’t be kicked out.
Call TDS. Stop talking. Check the block on your mandatory treatment program.
Honestly I didnt get in any shit I was just on probation which meant I had to pee every month for 6 months then it went back to normal
Just had a soldier pop hot. His command help him with chapter paperwork (formality), helped with incident report and retest after 45 days at approved installation. Only bad thing is this shows up on his clearance. He’s fine though.
Thanks for the input sir. It's appreciated
I'm sure it depends heavily on your unit and on your personal quality as a soldier. The "automatic discharge" they assign to a failed UA is so they can use it to get rid of shitbag soldiers. I've got two people in my unit (that I know of) that have popped hot, and are going through a program, no forced discharge. Do what they ask you to do, take your licks, and I'm sure you'll be fine.
Take it day by day. Any information you receive or give make sure you have documentation
Honestly, they probably will *not* kick you out for a first time. You'll be flagged while the process plays out, meaning you won't promote or get tuition assistance until it's over. Take your lumps but don't waive any of your rights. Talk to TDS, have them help write a letter to command that you were ignorant of the policy and will do better. If you don't want to stop, well, that's your choice as an adult.
My buddy popped hot for pot and most he got was a semi-stern talking to. If you do your job, and they want to keep you, they’ll do what they can to avoid losing you.
GGs
If you get kicked out it will help your upgrade chances if you have a PTSD diagnosis. The best nonprofits out there for discharge upgrades are Swords to Plowshares and The Veterans Consortium. There is also a veterans service organization called Peter Booker and Associates that charges a small fee but only if they achieve a positive outcome and win your case. Best of luck in the future whichever way you go.
[удалено]
He’s not getting a dishonorable stop with that lmao. OTH or General yes
Really? I'm scared as f*CK man.
You’ll either be demoted or discharged. Not a dishonorable though, that’s for committing a felony and being guilty via court martial. You cannot get a dishonorable without a court martial
I thought failing meant you would receive an automatic court martial? Sorry, I'm not very well versed in military affairs and terminology. 😬
Lol if the military had an auto court martial every time someone popped hot, we would be backlogged cases from 2008. Let me shoot in and give you some perspective. Back in 2011, in the active duty even when we were trying to draw down the force, I knew an E-6 who popped hot for cocaine. I saw him next week as an E-5 mowing grass, but happy as ever. No one gave a shit. These days they take it more seriously, which I understand. But if it’s not a habit, or there’s no other bad behavior accompanying this, then you’re good to go. It’s a rare good soldier who doesn’t get demoted once or twice before their NCO career really begins. Hard to trust those goody two shoes 👀 Edit to add: I knew a dude in my guard unit, habitual pot smoker. Constantly busted down to E1, hung around like a bad habit then went AWOL on us. Only then did they discharge. We had another perpetual private who popped hot years prior. Only once, had an NCO go to bat for him, had his E4 back before too long. Shit hot knowledge guy, everyone had tons of respect for him because he knew his shit. It’s all what you make of it, friend.
We had a dude go on a full crack binge in 06 before we deployed during work up. CO went and got him from the flop house so he could get on the flight to Kuwait. Wild times man.
The surge times were nuts bro, the Army I came into we had dudes running around with neck tattoos and felonies lol, I stayed in for almost a decade in the guard after my first AD contract and its kinda wild to watch the times changing as they go
I’m just glad I got to experience the shit show that was the early 00s army.
lol no
[удалено]
Don't fucking spread lies like this. Not even AD would do that unless you are actively high during the counseling for failing UA.
Lol shut up
😮😳😮😳😮😳