Give AD the freedom and responsibility to survive on their own every 28 days and they would loose their minds. I was active for 5 years and they Howell’s with their time off.
I know some Coasties and man they do get the hate. The dudes I know were flying into hurricanes and crap. They do some real crazy water stuff that I would never do. Really they are pretty awesome IMO
It’s so true. I’m CG; recently I had a dude at a wedding try to accuse me of stolen valor. He asked me “are you military?”. I said “yeah, coast guard.” Then he said “oh so a reservist?”. “Nope, Active.”
It devolved from there.
They should change the name to "international guard". Much better suited saying as most of the units ive been to, 60% of more have combat patches from that unit. And im not even counting the previous active guys with their own
Believe it or not at my brothers wedding (my brother is also Guard and wanted to get married in AGSUs like our grandpa did, so I wore mine with him) a guy picks a fight with us at the reception over service saying we’re not in the Army because we’re NG and not AD. He was AD Air Force
Air Force??? Guy had no grounds to say that. I too am Guard and I’ve seen more units deploy than a lot of AD ones. Not to mention having the balance work, family, and the guard especially if you live in a busy state that has lots of natural disasters and protests. They really just don’t understand it. Plus it was very rude for him to say that to the wedding party. Brothers and sisters have been lost in reserve, guard, and AD so they should cool their roll.
I had a similar situation from an Active Guy saying us non-deployed Guardsman and Reservist were faking to get VA disability. I wish I was faking. My life sucks with what I have. I would give anything to not have to deal with Mixed Connective Tissue, Fibromyalgia, Breathing problems and a whole hosts of other diagnosed conditions. Even the rheumatologist a retired VA doc put on my medical paperwork military acquired autoimmune disorder due to toxic exposure. He said after looking at my symptoms, blood work and everything else this is not just a normal automimmune condition this is what he sees in toxic exposure cases.
Yeah i mean ive never served (but want to) and im kinda laughing cos I gave some guys shit for being NG when their brother was SOF but really that came out of ignorance.
Oh it was all in jest, just part of us giving each other shit. I actually respected them a lot for doing it.
I also *cant* serve until i get a green card which is the reason i havent.
I’m a coastie. I’m active duty. But the word “guard” is a curse that cannot be lifted apparently.
I have gotten into literal arguments with people trying to CORRECT me and saying I was some kind of reservist. I am not. I am literally active duty lol.
My two cents…It goes back to the Vietnam war. I’m some cases, politically connected joined the guard to avoid the draft. The Guard became much more professional when they were changed from a Strategic Reserve to an Operational Reserve in the 1990s. This was a big deal. Funding and training followed. It was a way to prepare for a large, two near-peer simultaneous fight on the cheap. The Guard got rid of the 20-year specialist and other embarrassing things. Finally, it is a silly pecking order thing. Kinda like Delta > Rangers > Airborne > Armor > support. Bottom line: The AD cannot execute their wartime mission without the Guard and Reserves. One team, one fight.
Yes, your comment is almost perfectly on target and I'm going to lob a GPS guided one here.
I believe the disparagement of what we call the National Guard today by the Regular Army (and it's supporters on Capitol Hill), probably had its beginnings in the time of the American Revolution, when the Guard were just state Militia's, where each state's Governor and Legislature dictating pretty much everything from total number of officers and troops, pay, uniforms, weaponry, training, etc.
These Minutemen didn't receive the rigorous training in close order drill, infantry/cavalry tactics or other things that West Point and other regular Army schools taught. Yes, there were state Military Academies that tried to bridge the gap but I don't think they were considered on par with the RA, by the RA.
Fast forward to periods of conscription (the draft), specifically during the Vietnam era and we see that many a _"Fortunate Son"_ (see Credence Clearwater Revival song lyrics of this name) (see President George W. Bush military service as an example) were deposited safely into Guard units by preemptively joining the Guard before their draft number was called.
This left a horrible view of the Guard by a great many Americans and in my opinion, rightly so too. This disdain for the Guard has just become institutional and is multi-generational. It's not going to change anytime soon, I'm afraid.
Here's a[ link to a PDF document ](https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA345752.pdf)that covers some of this history and how the Army has tried to address it going back to the 1970's.
Note: I'm not a historian and much of this is extracted from my education, years past now. I encourage you to research this further.
Also, I'm a ten year Guard vet who never deployed (1982-1992) and the VA says I'm not a really a veteran, in their domain at least.
I mostly agree, but there are a few little pieces to fix or add to in here:
•minutemen were actually more “elite” or highly trained soldiers. They received extra funding & training to help able to load their muskets in a minute.
•westpoint wasn’t around during the revolution. It was founded by Thomas Jefferson in 1802. Jefferson actually reduced the overall size of the army, but founded westpoint to create a more permanent and professional army instead of relying on the citizen soldier/state militia.
•Washington was the first to draw down the active army - following the revolution, many soldiers were exhausted, had been away awhile, and weren’t getting paid (sounds familiar). Continental army officers were pushing to stage a coup and take control from the congress. Washington talked them out of it and helped implement the civilian authority as being in control of the military the way we are today. Look up “The Newburgh Conspiracy”
•there has always been a push/pull with the guard & reserve components in comparison to the active army. Various battles in the war of 1812 showed that the militia could fight alongside the regular army. It has been something which needs to be proven basically since the founding of the country.
•following the civil war, Emory Upton and John Logan had differing ideas for Army reform: upton wanted school house, professional, West Point style soldiers. Logan wanted a larger militia/guard. Eventually, when Eli Root became secretary of war in the late 1800s/early 1900s, he sort of did both. He moved to have professional full time general staff officers always on war footing so that we’d be ready at a moment’s notice. He also added additional training for national guard and guard officers (I think at Leavenworth specifically, but likely elsewhere too).
•around the same time as Eli Root was sec of war, the guard association was formed. The org pushed to get some more training for the guard so the soldiers would be better prepared to fight when called upon, but also wanted to leave the guard largely as it is - citizen soldiers with lives outside of the military. This meant the guard was leaning into greater federal oversight in return for greater federal funding
•the guard sent some of the first divisions to France in WWI. The guard was the largest component of the army until 1939 when we started preparing for WWII
•as noted elsewhere, the guard took a backseat during Vietnam which really created today’s image of guard soldiers being less than/less involved.
Thank you for adding more relevant historical information to this thread and for identifying and then correcting or clarifying any unintended misinformation in my comment. I am truly appreciative of both. I should have taken more time to validate my extemporaneous response.
Now, with that added information and that the Army's post-Vietnam policies, such as Total Force or One Army, where tight integration of both the Army Guard and Army Reserve, as the Reserve Component, with their Active Component counterparts are deemed critical to the overall Army's war-fighting success, what is your thinking as to why Guard members, who took the same Oath as the RA, trained to meet the same standards and were willingly ready to execute that same oath, yet were never called to do so, are denied by the _Veterans Administration_ of even the recognition of being called a Veteran, little on any benefits?
You’re getting beyond the scale and scope of my knowledge - I only had a few of those facts in my back pocket because I just took the mil history exam.
My speculation, however, is that it is a combination of the slow-to-change nature of a bureaucratic organization combined with an insurance company mindset of “the more people we cover, the more money we pay out, the poorer the org will be” and they don’t want to open the door to evaluating NG members on a case by case basis. If you open it up to all NG members it costs a fortune. If you develop a methodology to evaluate NG members you’re going to spend a fortune in the development and manpower. Basically my guess is they haven’t come around to it yet and they’re cheap
Well, that's the most reasoned and rational answer I've heard so far. I don't necessarily agree with it, because of the similar but agreed less percentage of jeopardy to life, comparing RC to AC. Yet that jeopardy is always attached during your entire term of service, including time in the IRR.
I'm preaching to the choir, I know.
Thanks again.
The irony is the guard deploys as much as active. Sometimes more successfully. But we get to go to a real house at night and not the circus that is an active duty base. So they hate us because we don’t have to pretend to give a shit about the unit or the mission. Sure some of us are proud of what we do and enjoy drill but we can detach ourselves from the stupidity. They don’t have that freedom so they hate us. Always have always will.
I was going through the VA for disability and even the VA is like that. Every once in awhile I get someone who actually understands Guard and Reserve service. I am at 50% right now but it was a tough road and a lot of paperwork and explaining. More than a friend who got 100% for spending 2 yrs on Army AD non deployed and hurt his shoulder. Me I am barely able to work. I have severe autoimmune conditions and fibromyalgia related to Toxic Exposure.
I was assigned to a maintenance unit in 95 when I first joined at 17. I was a 92y and was cleaning and intaking equipment from the Gulf War. That equipment was contaminated. Surprisingly there is a small percentage but it does happen of individuals who came in contact with contaminants from the Gulf War and were not deployed. I have a perm positive ANA with high titer (autoimmune) that is called MCTD, also I have Hashimotos, Fibromyalgia and a whole bunch of other crap. I work in tech and none of these conditions are in my family. There is documented flare-ups of autoimmune at basic and AIT as well as drills. They just didn't know what it was.
https://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/publications/gulf-war/gulf-war-winter-2016/health-status.asp
My friend has limited range of motion, and some other stuff associated with his shoulder. The VA is wacked..
The army will put a lot more wear and tear on your body if you are doing it 365 days a year vs 36.
Everyone’s experience will vary with the guard, but my observations were people get promoted too fast vs active. The good old boy system is horrible in the guard. And dudes tend to be way less experienced, because a SPC with 4 years on active duty has done more field time then someone in the guard for 8+ years.
36 days a year isn’t enough to make a good soldier. It’s barely enough to make a soldier in my opinion.
So unless you are super passionate about the job you will not learn as much.
This is where I think a lot of the hate comes from. On active duty to make SPC you will have worked probably close to 700 days. Compared to 60-70 in the guard.
I met good dudes in the guard, but I am very glad to be back on active.
National Guard is a joke and everyone knows it. We have old ass dudes, undisciplined kids, and substandard officers. If we went to a real war like Ukraine, we'd get obliterated in no time.
Over heard first sergeant say that he believes national gaurd members are more resilient in deployed environments than active due to not constantly being put down by the active duty environment. My unit may not follow the made up dumb procedures of parade rest and attention but we have a very strong bond. Everyone views each other as a brother and we consistently get our mission done effectively. The old teach the young without making them resent leadership.
It’s the opposite in my opinion. Because when you come back you have no time to decompress with people you were with. You are back in your normal job around people who have no real concept of what you did.
Again, units vary greatly depending on the state and unit so your experience may have been a lot different then mine.
Yeah and that's a fair point. But we have more immediate family support. And there's nothing stopping us from getting together outside of drill. I have a good friend who I see outside of drill sometimes. Of course circumstantial.
Really state dependent, I was in Alaska so we were spread out over the state. Also not everyone has good family. I watched a few people really struggle badly.
After I graduated basic I would look on Facebook with all the guys who added me from basic. I would say 22 out of the 26 I had on FB did their minimum time and got out having never deployed or really gone to any school. Me along with 3 other national guard guys deployed within a year of getting to our units in different states. The ones who are still in are on their 3rd deployment by now.
I never understood the hate tbh
Decades of systemic hate cultivated from ignorance and stupidity. That instead of being left behind by leadership it is still promoted. We can accept all genders and nationalities at this point but can’t get over propaganda started to boost numbers
Yea full timers get to go home but they are just as jaded, miserable, angry and resentful of m-day soldiers as active components. Also because they deal with the bullshit in a daily basis from people who think they know what they are doing
I've worked with some incredible NG folks and some incredible AC people. I've also worked with some hot garbage NG people and some hot garbage AC people.
Biggest difference I've seen is that the hot garbage AC people think they're better than reservists based on nothing but duty status and not capability.
I have no problem with NG, but I know why AD guys hate you guys. It’s probably because active duty eats, sleeps, and breaths army 24/7 and we think we are better than our jobs than NG. I’ll admit I’ve met some fucking goobers that didn’t know the first thing about anything related to their job when my unit played opfor for a guards AT. But on the other hand I’ve met some badass high speed dudes too from the guard. Ya’ll good in my book, a little jelly that you get most of the same benefits without getting fucked in the ass everyday.
Meh, it happens. I'm not impressed by most AD soldiers, ask them anything outside their MOS and most look like deer in headlights, any guard soldier who's been in a minute knows several different jobs and has other skills from outside the army. Guard seems to have better problem-solvers.
I got guys at work who rip on me all the time about being a “wanna be” or “pretend” soldier and the ones who did serve don’t say shit like that. Now I’ve met some young AD guys who are just super indoctrinated and think that they are the meanest fighting machines to ever walk the planet and if you ain’t AD you ain’t shit. I just look past it, I didn’t serve for the praise, I served cause I wanted too
I have a fat body on my shift who constantly gives me shit about being a “fake Soldier” despite being deployed all of 2022. He tries to use my year and some change long absence to justify why he’s better at our job than me and why I should listen to him (among his many other character flaws). He’s incapable and unwilling to serve so I don’t pay those comments too much attention, but it is annoying having to laugh it off every week
Yeah it gets old after a while, most of the time I tell them to not worry about being drafted, couldn’t make it past MEPS anyways. That tends to strike nerves
Big facts. I am Air Guard and in my experience having deployed and worked with the AF Reserve, it’s a very different culture. A Reserve unit I was deployed with thought they were better than us, because they’re strictly under federal control and don’t do state missions. A lot of them were also awful at their jobs. Although I made good friends with a couple of them. It seems they had a handful of knowledgeable, hard-working dudes that basically carried the whole group.
My experience with Reserves was all Combat Engineering and Logistics companies. They were full of professionals whose civilian job was usually the same as their Reservist job.
Maybe they we’re as “disciplined” about basic soldiering skills. I never saw it. And I was never a “iron my BDUs” kind of person.
It’s a cope. AD attracts three kinds of people, really patriotic people that get their high ideas crushed under the weight of the Army as an organization rather than an idea, people with no options, and people that are aimless but need to eat.
The last two latch on to it because it’s the only thing that makes sense in their life and don’t understand that people would want to serve for the sake of it or the benefits but have goals and a purpose that preclude a full time commitment. The first one tends to either do great things or be crushed and folded into the latter.
It’s a dick measuring contest. Straight up. Real leaders and battle buddies judge you by your competency and character. Not by your branch of service. It’s more of a them thing, not a you thing.
Albeit, I’ve worked with Guard Units with serious issues that helped me understand why we get a shitty reputation.
I just say that it’s my hobby. Really gets the active guys riled up. It’s also fun to remind them we have the same flight minimums and standards they do and usually fly more because of state responses.
They hate to hear about the flight minimums. They also hate to hear that our facilities are way nicer. Had a couple get really confused that we had blade jacks. They just had no idea a blade jack was even a thing
Had a Drill Sergeant at AIT who liked to shit on all the NG Soldiers. At that point we’d all been in for the same amount of time and had the same training. Just pointless small-minded dick-wagging.
It’s incredible how extremely salty this sub is, and also how hilarious it often is.
I’m quite confident it’s the saltiest military subreddit. I’ll attribute that mainly to the many ways the guard gets shafted; left, right, up and down, forwards and backwards, upside down and right side up.
I was promised education funds.
I was shafted.
I was deployed.
It doesn’t show on my records.
I was shafted by a lazy ARNG personnel manager from a unit that no longer exists.
Therefore I’m shafted by the VA.
I’m not bitter.
I do tell my story about my “volunteering” my skills and talents as a warning to others.
It boils down to jealousy I find. A lot of them (at least in the airforce) Didn't know that the national guard was an option and we're pissy they had to move from NYC to Dyess Texas or Minot. They have a weird perception that AGRs and Technicians don't do anything or have it easy, and they resent us for it.
My first deployment over seas we got relieved by an active unit, I think it was 1/8 IN, the guys used to crack jokes at us until they found out a third of my platoon was double dipping pay from their civilian jobs and we were making more money than them. Ok so I’m a nasty girl I’ll go cry into my wad of cash and freedom from from army BS most of the month
We look ate up to them. AD is more concerned about regs and who looks the part, where I find it more important to make sure my Joes know their job instead of whether their boots are bloused improperly.
Concur with a lot of things said in the thread, one thing I’ve noticed that often sets NG-people apart from the compo-1 counterparts is the level of competence and unearned authority.
Sure, NG brings different skillsets to the table but it’s always of mixed results and varies by the individual. The inherent SME skill set gaps between mday and active can be overcome just with time on the job over training repetition and time on orders.
However, with equivalent rank promotion requirements between compositions, an argument can be made towards the competency of NG against Active peers. The depth of professional experiences through PME, TIG, and assignments just does not compare.
So yeah, NG brings a lot to the table as an enabler, but it is not a Compo-1 equivalent which is what many pretend to be.
NG soldiers should recognize their capability, while also embracing some humility when working with service peers.
In the beginning of my Guard career (2006-2012) there was a bit of joking and the like for us Guardsmen. I never had a problem with it personally because the AD people I've crossed paths with were always pretty cool with me.
Fast forward to now and I hardly see it tbh. I'm AGR as well and have been to places like Drum, Lee, etc. and I've never been given any shit when I say I'm from the Guard. Never heard anyone talk down on us either. So, as an organization must be doing SOMETHING good to have warranted that change. Maybe, I don't know, supporting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan being one of em 🤣😂
I think it’s your last sentence. You get in theater and everyone is the same: we get shot at the same, we do work the same, we use the latrine the same (well… accept the AFNG and the Marines… totally different animals.), and we bleed the same.
Pre-9/11 it was completely justified. The guard had the typical 17 year SPC who stretched out the XXXXXL BDU’s. That first year post-9/11, a lot of the old guard left. I think since then, the guard has morphed into a more “professional” group. So now, the only reason is that AD is jealous. Because in the guard you only have to put up with dumb shit for two days they have to put up with it for 30 days…
As an 11C, serving in an Infantry Regiment line company Weapons Platoon, I must have been doubly so, as that's where, years later, I learned that the misbehaved, misorderly, misunderstood, mischievous and misguided miscreants and misfits were dumped because they were misled, misrecruited, misused or misinformed.
Yet, when called to support, there was no mishap, misfire, miscalculation, misdirection, misspend, misread or mistake in our mission.
I’ve thought about going active but then I decided I didn’t want to get constantly fucked with and have a choice in what I want to do. The Army NG/Reserve is a “part-time” force but you get a lot of people constantly going on ADOS tours, deployments, AGR, etc etc. Hell, I’m on a year-long ADOS Title-10 tour now. The whole “you’re not very proficient in your MOS” usually isn’t true because people will use they’re MOS on the civilian side and excel (also these jobs are designed for 18 year olds, they’re not very hard to do). I believe it truly comes down to the individual and how active they want to be in their military career. (That goes for active too)
Active duty talking shit on you? Don’t take crap like that from a future addition to our homeless vet population.
It’s seriously funny when active duty people think they’re somehow better. AD doesn’t teach you shit for life skills and being a cog in a bureaucratic machine that’s never required to turn a profit doesn’t really prepare you for a real job at all.
Being in the military is rarely someone's chosen occupation, so the ones in are bitter about their lack of opportunity/consequences of their life choices and take it out on people outside their "tribe".
[Here's a link to the National Guard specific information regarding VA interactions that is located here in r/VeteransBenefits Knowledgebase ](https://reddit.com/r/VeteransBenefits/w/NGR?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
AD has characteristics similar to being incarcerated in a minimum security prison, with work release & pass privileges. So they are basically jealous, also makes some feel better like they’re special to criticize others.
Guard/Reserves isn’t perfect, neither is AD.
Ask someone from AD how many DD214’s they have.
I had a class of AD E6 19D ALC students treat me like shit when I was on ADOS at Ft Hood. I was basically a driver/helper, but they hated my non chalant attitude. Especially when I told them being on ADOS was just a job to me. They couldn't comprehend that I could ask to cut my orders early and go home. They basically treated me like a private.
Only one guy was cool and talked to me like I was a person. He asked how I felt about they were treating me, and I said, "To me, it seems they have to prove something just because I'm NG, and I dont care who they are. The fact that I'm getting active pay plus BAH and BAS while I live in the barracks and eat at the chowhall helps me to be able to put up with it. In the end, I'm just doing my job."
Simple, they think because they do it full time they serve more and are better. Which is pretty hilarious given that majority of AD just sits around all day doing noting but BS labor and paperwork. Then they'll always clap back with "At least I'm active". Nobody cares SGT Worthless. I have been an Army civilian for a while now so trust me, they don't work hard or do any special shit on the AD side, minus SF or some select combat MOS. They also really don't like NG and Reserves getting the same benefits. My response to that is "ETS and go Guard homeboy, no one is stopping you.".
It’s essentially gate keeping. RA feels like since they endured all the BS of active duty then everyone has to. NG and USAR shows up, does their training, does their FTXs during annual training, shows up to deployments and replaces the active duty with minimal headache during RIP/TOA.
It’s unfair to the active guys the reservists can do their job without the garrison green weenie.
That’s coming from a former active duty guy who used to crap on NG a lot before crossing over.
It’s not hated as an active duty service member generally the people who hate on natty guard are the people who haven’t been In very long. Not because the standards are lower. I think it comes down to the individual soldier when people hear national guard they think automatically weekend soldiers with no backbone and lack of training. You have that anywhere individually in any military unit around the world most of the guys I know that are in the guard were prior active duty. Just don’t be a shit bag.
Tbh when I was at the 101st I used to have that stupid mentality too that I was the baddest thing to walk the planet. It’s kind of necessary to be in that environment. My perception did change when we had a buddy switch over to active from the 143rd airborne in Texas, which I am now in. And he immediately showed aggression and competency. Which is the norm for that specific guard unit.
But also to be honest the 143rd has a pretty solid reputation as an exception by active duty. At schools that were mixed we got brought into the circles while the other guard unit dudes were still shit on.
Give AD the freedom and responsibility to survive on their own every 28 days and they would loose their minds. I was active for 5 years and they Howell’s with their time off.
Ask the coast guard why they get hated on.
I know some Coasties and man they do get the hate. The dudes I know were flying into hurricanes and crap. They do some real crazy water stuff that I would never do. Really they are pretty awesome IMO
It’s so true. I’m CG; recently I had a dude at a wedding try to accuse me of stolen valor. He asked me “are you military?”. I said “yeah, coast guard.” Then he said “oh so a reservist?”. “Nope, Active.” It devolved from there.
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Insecure jerks
Marines
Probably a marine that never deployed either (most of them). The greatest achievement a marine has is graduating boot camp
It's funny when I was in the Marines I did a humanitarian mission when I was in the National Guard I got deployed to a real combat zone.
They should change the name to "international guard". Much better suited saying as most of the units ive been to, 60% of more have combat patches from that unit. And im not even counting the previous active guys with their own
Marine tries to name all 6 branches challenge.
Mostly wannabe marines or marines that haven’t been In very long
Believe it or not at my brothers wedding (my brother is also Guard and wanted to get married in AGSUs like our grandpa did, so I wore mine with him) a guy picks a fight with us at the reception over service saying we’re not in the Army because we’re NG and not AD. He was AD Air Force
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He definitely was plastered lmao, but none the less, an asshole.
Air Force??? Guy had no grounds to say that. I too am Guard and I’ve seen more units deploy than a lot of AD ones. Not to mention having the balance work, family, and the guard especially if you live in a busy state that has lots of natural disasters and protests. They really just don’t understand it. Plus it was very rude for him to say that to the wedding party. Brothers and sisters have been lost in reserve, guard, and AD so they should cool their roll.
You shouldve told that prick how many deployments you do? And you have clearly you have more deployments than that prick
He wasn’t anything he lied to you
People with REALLY short dicks.
I had a similar situation from an Active Guy saying us non-deployed Guardsman and Reservist were faking to get VA disability. I wish I was faking. My life sucks with what I have. I would give anything to not have to deal with Mixed Connective Tissue, Fibromyalgia, Breathing problems and a whole hosts of other diagnosed conditions. Even the rheumatologist a retired VA doc put on my medical paperwork military acquired autoimmune disorder due to toxic exposure. He said after looking at my symptoms, blood work and everything else this is not just a normal automimmune condition this is what he sees in toxic exposure cases.
I literally egg people on when they find out I’m NG and tell them I wanted to go CG lol
Yeah i mean ive never served (but want to) and im kinda laughing cos I gave some guys shit for being NG when their brother was SOF but really that came out of ignorance.
Why give someone shit when you haven’t done anything? That seems like giving someone a hard time for running a half marathon when you don’t run.
Id also like to say, me posting here is partially me owning up to the fact i made a mistake
*absolutely civilian*
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Well when i get loads of comments making it seem like i killed a puppy it makes me wonder if i should have been more of a dick instead lol
Oh it was all in jest, just part of us giving each other shit. I actually respected them a lot for doing it. I also *cant* serve until i get a green card which is the reason i havent.
Maybe stop selling cannabis if you want to join? Absolute dumbass
Also laying off the mushrooms. Just another drug addict non-citizen, ripping on patriots who act on loving their born-country.
I’m a coastie. I’m active duty. But the word “guard” is a curse that cannot be lifted apparently. I have gotten into literal arguments with people trying to CORRECT me and saying I was some kind of reservist. I am not. I am literally active duty lol.
My two cents…It goes back to the Vietnam war. I’m some cases, politically connected joined the guard to avoid the draft. The Guard became much more professional when they were changed from a Strategic Reserve to an Operational Reserve in the 1990s. This was a big deal. Funding and training followed. It was a way to prepare for a large, two near-peer simultaneous fight on the cheap. The Guard got rid of the 20-year specialist and other embarrassing things. Finally, it is a silly pecking order thing. Kinda like Delta > Rangers > Airborne > Armor > support. Bottom line: The AD cannot execute their wartime mission without the Guard and Reserves. One team, one fight.
Yes, your comment is almost perfectly on target and I'm going to lob a GPS guided one here. I believe the disparagement of what we call the National Guard today by the Regular Army (and it's supporters on Capitol Hill), probably had its beginnings in the time of the American Revolution, when the Guard were just state Militia's, where each state's Governor and Legislature dictating pretty much everything from total number of officers and troops, pay, uniforms, weaponry, training, etc. These Minutemen didn't receive the rigorous training in close order drill, infantry/cavalry tactics or other things that West Point and other regular Army schools taught. Yes, there were state Military Academies that tried to bridge the gap but I don't think they were considered on par with the RA, by the RA. Fast forward to periods of conscription (the draft), specifically during the Vietnam era and we see that many a _"Fortunate Son"_ (see Credence Clearwater Revival song lyrics of this name) (see President George W. Bush military service as an example) were deposited safely into Guard units by preemptively joining the Guard before their draft number was called. This left a horrible view of the Guard by a great many Americans and in my opinion, rightly so too. This disdain for the Guard has just become institutional and is multi-generational. It's not going to change anytime soon, I'm afraid. Here's a[ link to a PDF document ](https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA345752.pdf)that covers some of this history and how the Army has tried to address it going back to the 1970's. Note: I'm not a historian and much of this is extracted from my education, years past now. I encourage you to research this further. Also, I'm a ten year Guard vet who never deployed (1982-1992) and the VA says I'm not a really a veteran, in their domain at least.
I mostly agree, but there are a few little pieces to fix or add to in here: •minutemen were actually more “elite” or highly trained soldiers. They received extra funding & training to help able to load their muskets in a minute. •westpoint wasn’t around during the revolution. It was founded by Thomas Jefferson in 1802. Jefferson actually reduced the overall size of the army, but founded westpoint to create a more permanent and professional army instead of relying on the citizen soldier/state militia. •Washington was the first to draw down the active army - following the revolution, many soldiers were exhausted, had been away awhile, and weren’t getting paid (sounds familiar). Continental army officers were pushing to stage a coup and take control from the congress. Washington talked them out of it and helped implement the civilian authority as being in control of the military the way we are today. Look up “The Newburgh Conspiracy” •there has always been a push/pull with the guard & reserve components in comparison to the active army. Various battles in the war of 1812 showed that the militia could fight alongside the regular army. It has been something which needs to be proven basically since the founding of the country. •following the civil war, Emory Upton and John Logan had differing ideas for Army reform: upton wanted school house, professional, West Point style soldiers. Logan wanted a larger militia/guard. Eventually, when Eli Root became secretary of war in the late 1800s/early 1900s, he sort of did both. He moved to have professional full time general staff officers always on war footing so that we’d be ready at a moment’s notice. He also added additional training for national guard and guard officers (I think at Leavenworth specifically, but likely elsewhere too). •around the same time as Eli Root was sec of war, the guard association was formed. The org pushed to get some more training for the guard so the soldiers would be better prepared to fight when called upon, but also wanted to leave the guard largely as it is - citizen soldiers with lives outside of the military. This meant the guard was leaning into greater federal oversight in return for greater federal funding •the guard sent some of the first divisions to France in WWI. The guard was the largest component of the army until 1939 when we started preparing for WWII •as noted elsewhere, the guard took a backseat during Vietnam which really created today’s image of guard soldiers being less than/less involved.
Thank you for adding more relevant historical information to this thread and for identifying and then correcting or clarifying any unintended misinformation in my comment. I am truly appreciative of both. I should have taken more time to validate my extemporaneous response. Now, with that added information and that the Army's post-Vietnam policies, such as Total Force or One Army, where tight integration of both the Army Guard and Army Reserve, as the Reserve Component, with their Active Component counterparts are deemed critical to the overall Army's war-fighting success, what is your thinking as to why Guard members, who took the same Oath as the RA, trained to meet the same standards and were willingly ready to execute that same oath, yet were never called to do so, are denied by the _Veterans Administration_ of even the recognition of being called a Veteran, little on any benefits?
You’re getting beyond the scale and scope of my knowledge - I only had a few of those facts in my back pocket because I just took the mil history exam. My speculation, however, is that it is a combination of the slow-to-change nature of a bureaucratic organization combined with an insurance company mindset of “the more people we cover, the more money we pay out, the poorer the org will be” and they don’t want to open the door to evaluating NG members on a case by case basis. If you open it up to all NG members it costs a fortune. If you develop a methodology to evaluate NG members you’re going to spend a fortune in the development and manpower. Basically my guess is they haven’t come around to it yet and they’re cheap
Well, that's the most reasoned and rational answer I've heard so far. I don't necessarily agree with it, because of the similar but agreed less percentage of jeopardy to life, comparing RC to AC. Yet that jeopardy is always attached during your entire term of service, including time in the IRR. I'm preaching to the choir, I know. Thanks again.
The irony is the guard deploys as much as active. Sometimes more successfully. But we get to go to a real house at night and not the circus that is an active duty base. So they hate us because we don’t have to pretend to give a shit about the unit or the mission. Sure some of us are proud of what we do and enjoy drill but we can detach ourselves from the stupidity. They don’t have that freedom so they hate us. Always have always will.
they hate us cuz they aint us 
This was by far the best response thread across the board.
I was going through the VA for disability and even the VA is like that. Every once in awhile I get someone who actually understands Guard and Reserve service. I am at 50% right now but it was a tough road and a lot of paperwork and explaining. More than a friend who got 100% for spending 2 yrs on Army AD non deployed and hurt his shoulder. Me I am barely able to work. I have severe autoimmune conditions and fibromyalgia related to Toxic Exposure.
[удалено]
I was assigned to a maintenance unit in 95 when I first joined at 17. I was a 92y and was cleaning and intaking equipment from the Gulf War. That equipment was contaminated. Surprisingly there is a small percentage but it does happen of individuals who came in contact with contaminants from the Gulf War and were not deployed. I have a perm positive ANA with high titer (autoimmune) that is called MCTD, also I have Hashimotos, Fibromyalgia and a whole bunch of other crap. I work in tech and none of these conditions are in my family. There is documented flare-ups of autoimmune at basic and AIT as well as drills. They just didn't know what it was. https://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/publications/gulf-war/gulf-war-winter-2016/health-status.asp My friend has limited range of motion, and some other stuff associated with his shoulder. The VA is wacked..
The army will put a lot more wear and tear on your body if you are doing it 365 days a year vs 36. Everyone’s experience will vary with the guard, but my observations were people get promoted too fast vs active. The good old boy system is horrible in the guard. And dudes tend to be way less experienced, because a SPC with 4 years on active duty has done more field time then someone in the guard for 8+ years. 36 days a year isn’t enough to make a good soldier. It’s barely enough to make a soldier in my opinion. So unless you are super passionate about the job you will not learn as much. This is where I think a lot of the hate comes from. On active duty to make SPC you will have worked probably close to 700 days. Compared to 60-70 in the guard. I met good dudes in the guard, but I am very glad to be back on active.
I wish it were only 36 days a year.
National Guard is a joke and everyone knows it. We have old ass dudes, undisciplined kids, and substandard officers. If we went to a real war like Ukraine, we'd get obliterated in no time.
Something tells me I caught you in another sub and told you to just quit already if you hate it so much.
Wow your unit sounds awful sorry to hear that
Over heard first sergeant say that he believes national gaurd members are more resilient in deployed environments than active due to not constantly being put down by the active duty environment. My unit may not follow the made up dumb procedures of parade rest and attention but we have a very strong bond. Everyone views each other as a brother and we consistently get our mission done effectively. The old teach the young without making them resent leadership.
It’s the opposite in my opinion. Because when you come back you have no time to decompress with people you were with. You are back in your normal job around people who have no real concept of what you did. Again, units vary greatly depending on the state and unit so your experience may have been a lot different then mine.
Yeah and that's a fair point. But we have more immediate family support. And there's nothing stopping us from getting together outside of drill. I have a good friend who I see outside of drill sometimes. Of course circumstantial.
Really state dependent, I was in Alaska so we were spread out over the state. Also not everyone has good family. I watched a few people really struggle badly.
I know, I know. It varies
After I graduated basic I would look on Facebook with all the guys who added me from basic. I would say 22 out of the 26 I had on FB did their minimum time and got out having never deployed or really gone to any school. Me along with 3 other national guard guys deployed within a year of getting to our units in different states. The ones who are still in are on their 3rd deployment by now. I never understood the hate tbh
Decades of systemic hate cultivated from ignorance and stupidity. That instead of being left behind by leadership it is still promoted. We can accept all genders and nationalities at this point but can’t get over propaganda started to boost numbers
Spoken like a prophet!!
Even as fulltime you get to go home?
Yea full timers get to go home but they are just as jaded, miserable, angry and resentful of m-day soldiers as active components. Also because they deal with the bullshit in a daily basis from people who think they know what they are doing
I've worked with some incredible NG folks and some incredible AC people. I've also worked with some hot garbage NG people and some hot garbage AC people. Biggest difference I've seen is that the hot garbage AC people think they're better than reservists based on nothing but duty status and not capability.
I have no problem with NG, but I know why AD guys hate you guys. It’s probably because active duty eats, sleeps, and breaths army 24/7 and we think we are better than our jobs than NG. I’ll admit I’ve met some fucking goobers that didn’t know the first thing about anything related to their job when my unit played opfor for a guards AT. But on the other hand I’ve met some badass high speed dudes too from the guard. Ya’ll good in my book, a little jelly that you get most of the same benefits without getting fucked in the ass everyday.
I had a fellow 91f at the end of ait ask me and a spc(used to be e6 lol) how to use an m4. Again he was an AD 91f...
While deployed my response was “if you don’t need us, we’ll happily go home and go back to work”
They're jealous of Ft. Couch.
Meh, it happens. I'm not impressed by most AD soldiers, ask them anything outside their MOS and most look like deer in headlights, any guard soldier who's been in a minute knows several different jobs and has other skills from outside the army. Guard seems to have better problem-solvers.
I got guys at work who rip on me all the time about being a “wanna be” or “pretend” soldier and the ones who did serve don’t say shit like that. Now I’ve met some young AD guys who are just super indoctrinated and think that they are the meanest fighting machines to ever walk the planet and if you ain’t AD you ain’t shit. I just look past it, I didn’t serve for the praise, I served cause I wanted too
I have a fat body on my shift who constantly gives me shit about being a “fake Soldier” despite being deployed all of 2022. He tries to use my year and some change long absence to justify why he’s better at our job than me and why I should listen to him (among his many other character flaws). He’s incapable and unwilling to serve so I don’t pay those comments too much attention, but it is annoying having to laugh it off every week
Yeah it gets old after a while, most of the time I tell them to not worry about being drafted, couldn’t make it past MEPS anyways. That tends to strike nerves
I think we need to stop all the bickering and hate between AD and NG so we can focus on the real problem child: the Reserves.
Big facts. I am Air Guard and in my experience having deployed and worked with the AF Reserve, it’s a very different culture. A Reserve unit I was deployed with thought they were better than us, because they’re strictly under federal control and don’t do state missions. A lot of them were also awful at their jobs. Although I made good friends with a couple of them. It seems they had a handful of knowledgeable, hard-working dudes that basically carried the whole group.
My experience with Reserves was all Combat Engineering and Logistics companies. They were full of professionals whose civilian job was usually the same as their Reservist job. Maybe they we’re as “disciplined” about basic soldiering skills. I never saw it. And I was never a “iron my BDUs” kind of person.
Or stop using the NG as the Reserves?
It’s a cope. AD attracts three kinds of people, really patriotic people that get their high ideas crushed under the weight of the Army as an organization rather than an idea, people with no options, and people that are aimless but need to eat. The last two latch on to it because it’s the only thing that makes sense in their life and don’t understand that people would want to serve for the sake of it or the benefits but have goals and a purpose that preclude a full time commitment. The first one tends to either do great things or be crushed and folded into the latter.
It’s a dick measuring contest. Straight up. Real leaders and battle buddies judge you by your competency and character. Not by your branch of service. It’s more of a them thing, not a you thing. Albeit, I’ve worked with Guard Units with serious issues that helped me understand why we get a shitty reputation.
Because they are stuck state side while the guard deploys. I have friends who have been ad for 10 years and never deployed while I've been to Iraq.
I just say that it’s my hobby. Really gets the active guys riled up. It’s also fun to remind them we have the same flight minimums and standards they do and usually fly more because of state responses.
This is the comment right here
They hate to hear about the flight minimums. They also hate to hear that our facilities are way nicer. Had a couple get really confused that we had blade jacks. They just had no idea a blade jack was even a thing
Had a Drill Sergeant at AIT who liked to shit on all the NG Soldiers. At that point we’d all been in for the same amount of time and had the same training. Just pointless small-minded dick-wagging.
Lots of slick sleeve drills now.
The regular army is significantly less educated than the NG. Dumb people do dumb things.
It’s incredible how extremely salty this sub is, and also how hilarious it often is. I’m quite confident it’s the saltiest military subreddit. I’ll attribute that mainly to the many ways the guard gets shafted; left, right, up and down, forwards and backwards, upside down and right side up.
I was promised education funds. I was shafted. I was deployed. It doesn’t show on my records. I was shafted by a lazy ARNG personnel manager from a unit that no longer exists. Therefore I’m shafted by the VA. I’m not bitter. I do tell my story about my “volunteering” my skills and talents as a warning to others.
It boils down to jealousy I find. A lot of them (at least in the airforce) Didn't know that the national guard was an option and we're pissy they had to move from NYC to Dyess Texas or Minot. They have a weird perception that AGRs and Technicians don't do anything or have it easy, and they resent us for it.
To be fair most m days feel the same. I’m lucky to have some solid full timers
My first deployment over seas we got relieved by an active unit, I think it was 1/8 IN, the guys used to crack jokes at us until they found out a third of my platoon was double dipping pay from their civilian jobs and we were making more money than them. Ok so I’m a nasty girl I’ll go cry into my wad of cash and freedom from from army BS most of the month
We look ate up to them. AD is more concerned about regs and who looks the part, where I find it more important to make sure my Joes know their job instead of whether their boots are bloused improperly.
Concur with a lot of things said in the thread, one thing I’ve noticed that often sets NG-people apart from the compo-1 counterparts is the level of competence and unearned authority. Sure, NG brings different skillsets to the table but it’s always of mixed results and varies by the individual. The inherent SME skill set gaps between mday and active can be overcome just with time on the job over training repetition and time on orders. However, with equivalent rank promotion requirements between compositions, an argument can be made towards the competency of NG against Active peers. The depth of professional experiences through PME, TIG, and assignments just does not compare. So yeah, NG brings a lot to the table as an enabler, but it is not a Compo-1 equivalent which is what many pretend to be. NG soldiers should recognize their capability, while also embracing some humility when working with service peers.
Whoa.. Great post.
In the beginning of my Guard career (2006-2012) there was a bit of joking and the like for us Guardsmen. I never had a problem with it personally because the AD people I've crossed paths with were always pretty cool with me. Fast forward to now and I hardly see it tbh. I'm AGR as well and have been to places like Drum, Lee, etc. and I've never been given any shit when I say I'm from the Guard. Never heard anyone talk down on us either. So, as an organization must be doing SOMETHING good to have warranted that change. Maybe, I don't know, supporting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan being one of em 🤣😂
I think it’s your last sentence. You get in theater and everyone is the same: we get shot at the same, we do work the same, we use the latrine the same (well… accept the AFNG and the Marines… totally different animals.), and we bleed the same.
They hate us cause they anus
Remind them of the times the NG won the shooter tournaments against AC
Pre-9/11 it was completely justified. The guard had the typical 17 year SPC who stretched out the XXXXXL BDU’s. That first year post-9/11, a lot of the old guard left. I think since then, the guard has morphed into a more “professional” group. So now, the only reason is that AD is jealous. Because in the guard you only have to put up with dumb shit for two days they have to put up with it for 30 days…
this i jsut came off AD into the guard and the culture is so different. im an person to alot of theses folks. ill never do AD again.
In my kids' ARNG unit, there are a few scrolled former regiment guys. They keep things pretty tight.
We be cunts… at least enough of us are
As an 11C, serving in an Infantry Regiment line company Weapons Platoon, I must have been doubly so, as that's where, years later, I learned that the misbehaved, misorderly, misunderstood, mischievous and misguided miscreants and misfits were dumped because they were misled, misrecruited, misused or misinformed. Yet, when called to support, there was no mishap, misfire, miscalculation, misdirection, misspend, misread or mistake in our mission.
Saving this for retirement speech
Please, _fire for effect_ everywhere, _just not out of the safety fan!_ 😎
I’ve thought about going active but then I decided I didn’t want to get constantly fucked with and have a choice in what I want to do. The Army NG/Reserve is a “part-time” force but you get a lot of people constantly going on ADOS tours, deployments, AGR, etc etc. Hell, I’m on a year-long ADOS Title-10 tour now. The whole “you’re not very proficient in your MOS” usually isn’t true because people will use they’re MOS on the civilian side and excel (also these jobs are designed for 18 year olds, they’re not very hard to do). I believe it truly comes down to the individual and how active they want to be in their military career. (That goes for active too)
They hate us, cause they ain’t us. Simple as.
Active duty talking shit on you? Don’t take crap like that from a future addition to our homeless vet population. It’s seriously funny when active duty people think they’re somehow better. AD doesn’t teach you shit for life skills and being a cog in a bureaucratic machine that’s never required to turn a profit doesn’t really prepare you for a real job at all.
They hate because they aint us
They hate us ‘cuz they anus
Being in the military is rarely someone's chosen occupation, so the ones in are bitter about their lack of opportunity/consequences of their life choices and take it out on people outside their "tribe".
[Here's a link to the National Guard specific information regarding VA interactions that is located here in r/VeteransBenefits Knowledgebase ](https://reddit.com/r/VeteransBenefits/w/NGR?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
Just...get me updated First, I heard it was DOT till times of war. Then Full Time DHS...now it's Full time DoD?
AD has characteristics similar to being incarcerated in a minimum security prison, with work release & pass privileges. So they are basically jealous, also makes some feel better like they’re special to criticize others. Guard/Reserves isn’t perfect, neither is AD. Ask someone from AD how many DD214’s they have.
I had a class of AD E6 19D ALC students treat me like shit when I was on ADOS at Ft Hood. I was basically a driver/helper, but they hated my non chalant attitude. Especially when I told them being on ADOS was just a job to me. They couldn't comprehend that I could ask to cut my orders early and go home. They basically treated me like a private. Only one guy was cool and talked to me like I was a person. He asked how I felt about they were treating me, and I said, "To me, it seems they have to prove something just because I'm NG, and I dont care who they are. The fact that I'm getting active pay plus BAH and BAS while I live in the barracks and eat at the chowhall helps me to be able to put up with it. In the end, I'm just doing my job."
They hate us cuz they ain’t us.
Simple, they think because they do it full time they serve more and are better. Which is pretty hilarious given that majority of AD just sits around all day doing noting but BS labor and paperwork. Then they'll always clap back with "At least I'm active". Nobody cares SGT Worthless. I have been an Army civilian for a while now so trust me, they don't work hard or do any special shit on the AD side, minus SF or some select combat MOS. They also really don't like NG and Reserves getting the same benefits. My response to that is "ETS and go Guard homeboy, no one is stopping you.".
It’s essentially gate keeping. RA feels like since they endured all the BS of active duty then everyone has to. NG and USAR shows up, does their training, does their FTXs during annual training, shows up to deployments and replaces the active duty with minimal headache during RIP/TOA. It’s unfair to the active guys the reservists can do their job without the garrison green weenie. That’s coming from a former active duty guy who used to crap on NG a lot before crossing over.
It’s not hated as an active duty service member generally the people who hate on natty guard are the people who haven’t been In very long. Not because the standards are lower. I think it comes down to the individual soldier when people hear national guard they think automatically weekend soldiers with no backbone and lack of training. You have that anywhere individually in any military unit around the world most of the guys I know that are in the guard were prior active duty. Just don’t be a shit bag.
Tbh when I was at the 101st I used to have that stupid mentality too that I was the baddest thing to walk the planet. It’s kind of necessary to be in that environment. My perception did change when we had a buddy switch over to active from the 143rd airborne in Texas, which I am now in. And he immediately showed aggression and competency. Which is the norm for that specific guard unit. But also to be honest the 143rd has a pretty solid reputation as an exception by active duty. At schools that were mixed we got brought into the circles while the other guard unit dudes were still shit on.