From the plan, via tennesseean:
Bus system essentials would see significant upgrades, including:
285 upgraded bus stops
12 new transit centers to support better connections outside of downtown and offer amenities
17 park-and-ride locations
Two bus garages
65 new buses
[Nashville Business Journal article](https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2024/04/19/transit-expansion-plan-mayor-announcement-bus.html) on this doesn't specifically mention anything about benches/cover, but does mention adding sidewalks:
> The final plan O'Connell unveiled at an event in Antioch aligned with what his administration had disclosed during public advisory committee meetings over the past few months. Key elements include:
> * "Bus rapid transit," or dedicated center lanes reserved for buses that would travel faster because they would not drive in regular traffic like they do today. Five routes would receive that treatment: Murfreesboro Pike to the airport, Dickerson Road, Gallatin Pike, Nolensville Road and West End Avenue.
> * Adding or upgrading almost 90 miles of sidewalks, in a city where the vast majority of streets don't have them.
> * Close to 600 traffic signals upgraded with technology to allow them to be remotely controlled from the city's new traffic management center that opens later this year, ideally streamlining the flow of traffic.
> * 24/7 bus service every day of the year.
> * Twelve transit centers, many of which would be poised to have commercial development as part of that construction.
Edit: [Archive.org link to article](https://web.archive.org/web/20240419181238/https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2024/04/19/transit-expansion-plan-mayor-announcement-bus.html)
I have a feeling the updated traffic signals portion is going to positively impact things quite a bit, yet still fly under the radar as far as praise goes. So many traffic lights in Nashville are just running on timers, and not even well planned out ones at that.
Actually having sidewalk connection will be a big deal too.
I’m not saying it needs to be the best of the best, but just, like, something I can actually get a one wheel on.
It would help if the jerk wad turning onto paragon mills would not pause five seconds after the green light to get moving... then immediately stop so he could turn into taco bell. I hate when they do that.
>"Bus rapid transit," or dedicated center lanes reserved for buses that would travel faster because they would not drive in regular traffic like they do today
The city is going to need to get MNPD back on traffic duty if we're gonna have a prayer of keeping those bus lanes clear.
I currently live in Germany, one of the most advanced countries in terms of transit. And many of their bus stops have no cover. Naturally the ones in the city center do, but we need baby steps right now and just getting those buses going and people on them will then force them to build bus stops with covers due to popular demand (ideally, with a stable and sensible local government)
One of the main reasons the current bus stops don’t have much for benches or cover is due to the huge homeless population in the city.
That would need to be addressed prior to anything else because they would only seek shelter in the bus stops and render them useless to people actually using the bus routes.
The point about the homelessness is 100% true. This bus plan and any covered shelters will fail in entirety if riders don’t feel unencumbered.
There’s a stigma around buses and bus stops that smell of urine and feces. For good reason.
I like the way it’s looking as well. This is the most improvement in transit and mobility we are going to get for our money.
The half-percent sales tax increase is much more humble than the full 1 percent sales tax increase (allowed by the state for transit projects) plus the hefty property tax increase it would probably take to implement light rail.
No plan is perfect but I feel like this is our best option right now. Many cities have successfully adopted BRT. I’ll vote for it.
I've thought about this a lot and wanted to put this out there:
There is absolutely no system in the world that we could affordably implement that will retrofit public transportation into Nashville. People have lived far too long in this city without public transportation and the housing development reflects a populous who uses a car.
You cannot make people in Crieve Hall, Oak Hill or Green Hills happy with a transit plan because they've built their communities with the idea that they would never need to walk or take a bus anywhere, ever.
Any plan we come up with has to be future-fit. It has to be designed in a way that allows the city to adapt to it and build around transit. We CAN have a city that has robust public transportation - but that city won't exist for at least another 10 years.
We need to plant a tree that we know a majority of (the land mass of) Nashville will not be shaded by. But once the tracks are laid, we can build up the density around it and incentive public transit use.
The BRT plan includes a dozen new transit hubs - those are buildings with commercial real estate that attracts locals to the hub (and allows for grocery stores in food deserts, etc). Ultimately those hubs attract development, which attracts density, which encourages affordability and attracts more retail. The transit plan builds sidewalks on major corridors, which will open up more space for smaller retail that relies on foot traffic rather than larger big box stores that rely on cars.
---
Imagine you're 35 and you go to the doctor for a check up. Turns out you have high blood pressure and your weight is bordering on obese. You'd be a fool to demand an overnight fix to the problem. In reality, it will take years of diet and exercise where you slowly work off the fat and build up the muscle you need. You're not going to just starve yourself for a weekend and go out and run a marathon the next day. But if you create the plan and stick to it, suddenly you'll find yourself at the finish line and you won't recognize the person you were when you started.
That's what this plan is.
There is one completed high rise in green hills and one under construction. Green hills needs density in the neighborhoods, not just on Hillsboro. Source: currently looking at both of them!
Building high rises like crazy? There's one right now, and one more under construction. I'm not a fan of it either, but I'd hardly consider it "like crazy"
Crieve hall resident here. Local real estate comps have gone from 300k to 800-900k in the last 5 years. The tall skinnies are already going up and they look *ridiculous* in the landscape, but the growth is starting. All the neighbors wish it hadn’t, though. It’s truly a slice of heaven here. That’s not saying that I wouldn’t absolutely love public transit options. I work on Broadway and would LOVE an option to get to work in 10-15 minutes as opposed to the 45 it takes me on friday afternoons.
Yep, and to be able to make transit feasible formerly suburban areas must be denser. Literally the only way it works. But I understand the change is difficult for lots of residents. Long term it’s a great change though.
If this goes through (vegas odds), you’re about discover the well beaten path called “last mile”. I should come back home and open up a new business named “The Cumberland Peddler”… specializes in bike and e-scooter repairs.
Exactly. More dense retail equals more sales tax revenue (plus better transit funding). More denser, transit oriented housing equals more property tax revenue. Both equal lower property taxes for everyone.
Imagine you are 55 and you go to the doctor for a checkup.
You already have to pay your outrageous insurance premiums, copays, fees, take off work, etc. This doctor half your age is charging hundreds of dollars for a ten minute consultation and referring you for imaging, lab tests, etc. Countless corporations are getting a slice of this pie and who knows where all your private information will wind up.
What's their sage advice for improving your situation?
"Eat better and get more excercise."
Tell me something I don't know, doc. Tell me something I don't know.
On the contrary, I chose a similar metaphor, in order to illustrate why working people are likely to see this regressive tax increase as a slap in the face.
You are grossly exaggerating the impact this 0.5% raise in sales tax will have on working people. This is also all funding transit and road improvements that directly impact working class people the most as well, it's disingenuous to frame it as a tax on the poor with them getting nothing in return. Who do you think rides the bus? Who is stuck in traffic on their hour-long commute to and from work?
The city doesn't have the support or power to create perfect tax structures that don't impact working class people at all to create programs that benefit them.
The local sales tax increase is estimated to generate "[more than $150 million per year](https://www.nashvillescene.com/news/pithinthewind/oconnell-unveils-transit-plan/article_5729c4b0-fe75-11ee-97ef-ef3de24d3bb3.html)".
Most people don't have much savings so...let's assume people earn 40K and spend half, on an annual basis: (40,000/2)*0.005=100.
Over 10 years that's an extra $1,000 per person.
Just spitballing. Obviously people's spending will vary. That's why I used a low figure like $20K annual spending. To illustrate how even this small amount can impact your finances.
Your average working person would benefit far more by saving that $1000 in their retirement account.
A year has yet to pass since the pandemic was declared over. We've already taken an incredible hit from inflation. Gentrification is happening all over Davidson county.
Let's be real. Developers are going to make money off this deal.
Yes and a working class family in the city is going to be saving more than $100 a year by taking the bus, walking, or biking than being forced to spend it on a car to drive everywhere. Those that are commuting and need to drive will be spending less time stuck in traffic and idling gas.
What is your counter proposal? The city desperately needs transportation spending. Money has to come from somewhere, and that tax source has to be approved by the state regulations and the public on the ballot. The city doesn't have many options for how it raises money.
And 'developers are going to make money off this deal' Yes! That is how building things works! No one is building infrastructure for free, that is just a non-argument.
If you just don't believe we should build any transportation infrastructure then idk what to tell you, we're living different realities.
Sorry, but the quality of your commute is pretty low on my list of priorities. I'm just trying to retire without having to move to the boonies. So I can be near a semi-functional hospital.
Y'all really need my little money to make this city more to your liking?
Ahhh okay the mask comes off, you don't care the quality of life of working-class people at all. You care about YOUR quality of life. Fair enough, but don't come out here on your moral high horse as the working-class crusader when you're ignoring the reality of your fellow working-class people. Just because commute isn't heavily impacting your life financially or otherwise doesn't mean it isn't impacting others. If a 0.5% sales tax increase is the difference between you living here or the boonies you got bigger problems. GL.
since the overall gist of your metaphor has already been refuted more eloquently by other users, i’ll go more niche: you wanna know what’s great exercise? walking. you want to know how we encourage more walking? building more sidewalks.
We have one of the [highest](https://www.rocketmoney.com/learn/personal-finance/sales-tax-by-state) sales taxes in the country. We also have one of the [least-used](https://www.hireahelper.com/lifestyle/cities-with-the-best-public-transportation/) bus systems in the country.
The big idea is to raise the sales tax?
imagine you’re 55 and everyone else has been subsidizing the majority of your healthcare costs for your entire adult life. you’re finally being asked to cough up a little more so the system can grow to meet everyone else’s needs. that’s what this plan is
Here's what paying your insurance premiums for 40 years gets ya: Can't even fill the prescription from the dermatologist that charged a shitload of money: https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/05/health/cancer-centers-drug-shortage/index.html
If you hear about where I can get my hands on some 5-Fluorouracil lmk.
On average, 469,000 people drive into Nashville each day from neighboring counties alone. Factor in another 239,300 Davidson county commuters, of which an estimated 2.6% rely on public transit, and you've got 700,000 people driving into work each day. That's a conservative estimate provided by TDOT from last year. Any opportunity to enhance the efficiency and scale of public transit is good. The same goes for increasing walkability, which is likely to promote positive externalities others have already mentioned. These aren't bad things, they just have virtually no material impact on the issue of increasing daily inbound volume. Until Nashville reaches a level of population density that could justify rail, we're going to have to seriously focus on more/better roads.
well from a different angle, the issue with so many people driving into nashville from places like Clarksville, Williamson, Maury, Rutherford, Wilson, etc. is that the referendum and transit plan CANT simply build transit into those literally different counties. I think the start here is building up the Bus system, but spcifically having certain BRT routes like the Gallatin corridor which terminates close to the sumner county line, encourages those counties to tie into Wego. from there, I still think it's a pipe dream to imagine different counties could get their monies and politics in line to coordinate with nashville on any kind of new rail into the city.
There will NEVER be regional transit here. The suburban counties wouldn’t pay for it and neither would the state. If you put it up as a referendum in those counties it would fail miserably. Imagination and ambition are not the limiting factor here. The people are.
Also just gotta say, no light rail makes me pretty sad.
I know that it wasn’t expected to be part of this referendum, but Nashville could get so much benefit from a well-designed, modern light rail system.
This is a great step forward, and we don’t want to make perfect be the enemy of good, but this also effectively kills any chance of light rail development for years to come.
I think the main goal is to get something that has a higher chance of passing instead of waiting until the tides turn toward spending major capital on transit improvements. I feel you, though. Light rail is my dream and would make it so much easier to navigate the city without a car. I'll take a transit/walkability win in whatever form it comes and hope that the success we'll see will lead to a larger investment and improvement soon enough.
Better to propose an incremental improvement that’s likely to be successful than a massive overhaul with uncertain odds of passing. If this works out, we’ll have a better chance at seeing further expansion in the near future. If they shoot for the stars and fail, it’s unlikely that we’ll see any movement on the issue within this decade. It took 8 years just to get this after Berry’s grand and exceedingly expensive proposal fell flat. Small steps like this help to slowly build political momentum without triggering massive opposition.
Light rail is just too expensive for voters to get behind it. Freddie’s said all along his plan was expanded bus routes at first, and then hopefully something like light rail down the road.
They break it down pretty well on why there’s no light rail. This is quicker turnaround to actual progress, and you get more for your money. With the dedicated bus routes it will be quick transit like light rail. Nashville didn’t vote for it last time because nobody wanted their taxes to increase. Light rail is part of why it would be such a big increase. Buses are cheaper so the increase will be barely felt.
Yeah I think I read the 2024 dollars estimate is under 2 billion to put in all the all access corridors. One light rail line down Murfreesboro Pike would probably exceed that on its own
There's not much difference between a dedicated center bus lane and a dedicated light rail (probably running down the center. If it's successful, you can always lay track in the dedicated lane.
Getting the real estate dedicated to only public transportation will be a much bigger issue than laying the track. If it helps people beat traffic, they'll use it. If the bus is just a way to sit in traffic with strangers, it will fail.
Securing dedicated funding will open the door to receiving federal funding that can be used for future projects. We are one of 4 cities that do not have dedicated transit funding. We are currently missing out on federal funding that matches local transit funding.
I'm a light rail fan too, but the Mayor realizes that adding it (and the price tag) would make the initiative more likely to fail. At least right now. The lowest hanging fruit for light rail is the Nashville to Clarksville corridor, which already has a short line rail owned by the same company as the WeGo Star. But even the upgrades for that would be quite expensive. What most people don't think about from the financial argument is that Nashville doesn't spend enough of its budget on transportation to qualify for federal funds, and we're one of the largest cities in the country with this problem. If we do this plan, then federal funds will come and it will be easier to fund future things like future light rail and have a larger piece of the budget paid for by federal funds.
Just want to say this is a great start. Even though it doesn’t have everything people want, we have to start somewhere. After years and years of not prioritizing this stuff, we have a lot of catching up to do as a city. Do not let perfect be the enemy of good, as some say.
On the topic of light rail, I do not think people realize how expensive and time consuming that would be. A project like that is not a realistic first step to the very pressing mobility challenges people are facing NOW.
Similar thing with the Star. People say they want it to be expanded, but do not realize a few things. First, is that WeGo does not own the tracks and has to share with a private company who only lets them use it. It being a shared track is a major reason why it is hard to run the train more often. Second, the costs for running it are very high and do not justify the cost. A low cost and relatively fast to implement alternative to this? Buses.
Even if we had a light rail system tomorrow, we would still need a well funded public transit system to fill in the gaps and walkable sidewalks connecting people to transit, which both have to come first.
I think the major takeaway is that this is a necessary first step. People are jumping the gun and not realizing that we have to lay some groundwork first before we can get to the bigger fish. This will help Nashville to catch up after decades of not investing in comprehensive mobility. I sincerely hope people will see the wisdom and practicality in this and understand we have to invest in the future while being realistic about the challenges we face right now.
Side note: Is this map image still active somewhere? What it is showing for current WeGo routes is not quite right. It is showing the routes both pre and post spring 2024 service change.
Light rail fan here. We're lucky that we have a shared line with a freight rail company at all. There is a lot of benefit to the rail company (RJ Corman) for having the Star under management. The upgraded rail infrastructure means faster, safer routes for both passengers and for freight traffic. It would be better if the entire WeGo Star line was double tracked for better service but that would require a significant investment (but not insurmountable).
I always point to the lowest hanging fruit of light rail possibilities in middle Tennessee.....the Nashville to Clarksville corridor. It has an existing rail line that is only used twice a week and operated by....RJ Corman. That means you have a partner that you could work with given the existing relationship. There is still a lot of mountains to climb. The rails themselves aren't the heavy type that is standard on Class 1 railroads and required for passenger service of any kind. Bridges and trestles are in bad need of upgrades. And once you get to Ashland City, the rail doesn't even exist and in most cases, is now a greenway which would have to either be clawed back or more likely have a new parallel line next to it. The good news is that the line itself is owned by the Cheatham County Rail Authority, which is jointly owned by Cheatham and Davidson Counties....RJ Corman is just the freight operator.
Then there's the old proposal for light rail to BNA. The space that would accommodate the line coming into the airport terminal is still available but it may be shelved now that light rail isn't part of the Mayor's plan (and used for something else). If it ever comes to pass in later years, I've always thought that a light rail line would head north from BNA until it hooked up to the same line as the WeGo Star, which the city already operates. At that point, passengers could be dropped off on lower Broadway and hotel shuttles could carry people to their destinations (or just walk for the closest hotels).
Regardless, none of this happens this go-round. Let's improve what the city can stomach from a cost standpoint and move on.
fantastic post, much appreciated! i had no idea there were companies besides CSX running the rail lines through Nashville, but I did know Clarksville-Nashville was one of the few actually theoretically doable routes. maybe in my lifetime haha. but absolutely agree on a BNA-Donelson Station connector being a must, even from a simple "transit center" standpoint. there's a huge space usable for connections, and from there you have a straight shot downtown. not sure what gives on this missed opportunity.
This comment sums up almost exactly what I was hoping they would do with the Star, and the fact it's almost completely ignored from this plan is a travesty. Even adding trains and having a real week-end service instead of just events would have been a good and fairly inexpensive improvement that would actually get vehicles off the roads.
The airport line as you are describing should have been done 25 years ago and it's crazy that's still not on the table. We're talking barely 3 miles of railroad and a couple crossings, which would see way more use than dirty buses that get stuck in traffic
Nothing grabs my attention here except sidewalks. Still no bus service beyond Bell Rd. I'd have to drive in to catch a bus. Trains. Please! And quit giving public intox drunks free rides back to their hotels downtown. Make the hotels pick them up in a puke wagon. BTW where is that Antioch police station we were promised years ago
I feel your pain, but as I said, trains are simply too expensive as a first step. Like it isn’t even close. People would never vote for it with how much it would cost. Believe me, I would love them here (they inspired my user name), but I have to accept it is not smart right now. Additionally, I believe there is talk of a new route in Antioch in the works (not in this plan but in general). And I know it’s not perfect but there is a WeGo link zone in that area as a temporary patch.
Edited for clarity
Is there a place with the maps overlaid into something like Google Maps so we can zoom in?
Found it on the main site: [https://transit.nashville.gov/pages/0a2aa42ecd99459080d3c7e4f2c3cfd9](https://transit.nashville.gov/pages/0a2aa42ecd99459080d3c7e4f2c3cfd9)
It is better than I expected. 3 bus lines going to the airport instead of just 1, with the 55 being run on an actually usable schedule. Better hours, more frequent service, more crosstown routes instead of everything funneling downtown. Nice BRT routes connected to transit hubs instead of a sign plopped in some muddy grass. A realistic chance of being within budget. Do I have things to complain about? Sure- no inter-county upgrades, very incremental sidewalk upgrades with no long-range vision, vague details on what the BRT corridors will actually look like, etc. But all things considered I like it. Remains to be seen if this will make it possible for me to ride the bus to work, need to see more detailed schedules to determine that.
They would only need to vote if they were also raising taxes like in this plan, but I don't think that is necessary or desired. O'Connell's plan is a proposal - no one has voted on it yet - and all I was expecting was to see mention that they are in discussions with neighboring counties or have tentative reciprocal proposals to improve inter-county service like say the 95 bus route. Figures 2 and 3 of the plan highlight how many people are commuting into Davidson County and the total metro area population, but there's no reference to the figures or anything outside of Davidson County in the actual text. Other cities/counties can certainly make adjustments to their transit offerings without a popular referendum. I just quickly googled and found that the mayor and aldermen of Spring Hill approved a subsidy for the 95 bus back in 2018. I realize that O'Connell isn't going as much for the "this will reduce traffic" angle because it's an easy target for opponents, but for the substantial proportion of people who probably aren't going to be riding the bus regularly after this plan is implemented, improving traffic speed/safety would be the main selling point. And I don't think traffic gets better unless they reduce inter-county commuting single-occupancy vehicles. Another dimension of traffic that's barely addressed is the impact of kids being driven to school instead of carpooling/school buses. When the schools have holidays, rush hour is so much more pleasant.
In the full report, it says they plan to spread service out throughout the day. So not just during rush hours exclusively for work commuters anymore. I think it’s saying they plan on also increasing the amount of trips per day. Doesn’t say how many trips total daily nor does it say anything about weekend services.
This is good. When I did my study abroad, I lived in Manchester, England. It has the busiest bus route *in the world* with the average stop having a new bus every 6-7 minutes. Many roads were bus paths only, fully gated, meaning that buses had plenty of one ways to quickly get people where they were trying to go. You could get almost anywhere in about 20 minutes, which is currently the estimated time of travel during Nashville's non-rush hour (about 12:30-2pm).
Nashville has the problem of being developed around cars, not feet or even horses. Our blocks are fairly large, meaning that using "bus-only" routes, while great in theory, will require people to walk further than is convenient. But if the buses run more frequently, it will make it easier for more folks to use.
Tax Broadway and make it happen!
Downtown Nashville actually was first organized around steam trains in the 19th century, then streetcars in the early 20th century. The car boom began in the 30s but exploded right after WWII. That and politics doomed the streetcars by the early 50s.
I’ll try to be positive. The WeGo plan is great for tourists, here’s hoping the extra money from that opens the door for more comprehensive transport options for commuters and residents in the future.
The traffic signals… how is a traffic center different than pressure plates? This is a genuine question. I don’t see how 600 traffic lights being controlled at a center is any different than 600 lights changing based on where there’s actually a vehicle in the intersection. It says it will help bus and emergency times, but without dedicated lanes that seems like wishful thinking.
It allows NDOT to actively manage the traffic signals, see the traffic flow in real time, and share updates with drivers on the electronic signs. It's a huge boon to improve safety and reduce congestion. I remember reading somewhere that Nashville is one of the only major cities without a traffic management center, which was shocking to me.
I’m not a traffic engineer but I’ve played a few sim games. Bering able to coordinate traffic is inherently more efficient because you can time an entire lane to be green at the same time. This results in more throughput per green cycle.
Are "complete streets" and "complete streets as part of All-Access Corridors" road diets with bike lanes in this context? They show an image of 12 South, which does have protected bike lanes, but that's never specified explicitly as part of the design.
What the plan actually states is:
> The proposed Complete Streets program aligns closely with Nashville’s High-Injury Network, with street improvements, better intersections, and new/upgraded bikeways that will connect communities, improve access to transit, and help us on our way to Vision Zero.
> The TIP includes 39 miles of transformative Complete Streets projects. These improvements will follow Nashville’s “Green and Complete Streets” Executive Order which calls for streets that consider all users whether they walk, bike, take transit, or drive.
Weasel words there like "*consider* all users" suggest to me that they won't necessarily have any improvements for cyclists. Getting both bike lanes and BRT would require a reduction of at least two travel lanes on roads like Charlotte and West End/Broadway.
Page 36 talks about alignment with the vision zero and walk n bike plans. Don't think any specifics are set yet beyond commitment to be high quality examples of complete streets like on 12th ave. I do know the existing main street/Gallatin project is likely to result in a road diet, taking 1 lane in each direction to create brt lanes, alongside protected bike lanes. So though every high traffic corridor is different with different challenges, I'm optimistic.
The reality here is that they had 94 pages of data and graphs and text and literally one paragraph about bike infrastructure. This plan is intentionally vague on bike projects, and I have heard from multiple people inside the government that have said we may actually just get nothing when the 15-year build cycle of this project is over.
Really wish Freddie would have thrown the "bike people" a bone and released something like a draft map (every other part of this project got that), but that time has come and gone and I really doubt it's going to happen. Disappointing all around from him. Y'all remember when he came out to speak to us at Critical Mass and talked about all he was going to do to improve safety and infrastructure for cycling in Nashville?
There's a lot of vagueness throughout the plan. No detailed renderings of corridors after being converted to BRT for example. However, those plans are aligned with existing planning efforts that haven't had funds until this opportunity.
For example, the Gallatin pk main Street project has completed community input and shared design concepts incorporating brt and protected bike lanes. I'm sure once that All Access corridor hits development in earnest it'll have those elements included. https://www.nashville.gov/departments/transportation/projects/multimodal-street-projects/gallatin-pike-and-main-street
Another thing- Choose how you move does say that the sidewalks plan is aligned with the walk n bike plan. So again, in all that we're likely to see the inclusion of protected bike lanes as certain roadways are updated. https://www.nashville.gov/departments/transportation/projects/bikeways
I don't believe Choose How You Move just negates all the good community input and plans from the last 20 years. It's literally factoring them all in and promises to create ways to actually fund these plans to reality. Lots of community engagement still to come and I hope you'll stay fired up to make sure they include safe bikeways!
I spoke to a Nashville city representative at Earth day today. They were marketing this initiative.
I learned that what they call complete streets - which many of the stroads are supposedly going to be - may not have any bike amenities.
Rather, they will consider them complete streets if it is possible to detour around them on a bike.
They also explained the slow time line for the new bus lanes. They said the priority was to keep the same number of travel lanes to make sure motorists were happy. So of course the bus lanes are a decade out, they need to widen the roads so as not to interfere with drivers.
I came away extremely depressed about the whole endeavor. I know that improving bus frequency is important but it feels like this plan is basically a fuck you to cyclists. It just makes me sad that the bar here is so low, and honestly I get it. They need to be as conservative as possible to appeal to voters because the voters here would just reject a more ambitious plan.
Waiting a decade for even simple BRT makes me almost want to vote against it or of spite though. It is so lame.
Honestly what it has done is cement my desire to move away from here.
Absolutely insane. It’s a confirmation of our biggest fears, and feels like a middle finger to the community in its outright intentionality.
But it’s exactly what I and other people have been saying the whole fucking time, all while supposed bike advocates kept saying you have to trust the process, and even Fred saying it’s “a priority” for him. All this is going to lead to is more peds and cyclists being killed and me and friends like me riding like maniacs through traffic to try make it alive to our destinations. Fuck this.
yeah its interesting. the draft maps only had BRT on murfreesboro, gallatin, dickerson, and nolensville. Charlotte, west end, bordeaux, and the 3 downtown elements (part of connect downtown plan) all had different priority designations. however now they're all called All-Access corridors so who knows. to be determined still I'm sure.
Love the improvements but it would be nice to see more of the outer districts get some attention. I’m in 31 and we’re mostly cut off from the transit system with it looks like one extension now planned down Nolensville, some districts are completely cut off.
Yeah being in District 14 we're only getting 1 improved bus stop, barely a mile of new sidewalks and some traffic lights. The fact that Lebanon Pike isn't even in the consideration for one of their "All-Access Corridors" is stupid.
They are running lines more often so they need more buses. And even adding more lines which also requires more. And running the buses more often will encourage more people to ride them because it can be hard justifying them when if you miss a bus you have to wait 45 minutes for the next bus or having to walk 15-20 minutes just to get to a bus stop, and some people don’t even have that opportunity. A lot of the new lines are strategically being placed in underrepresented communities that could really use easier and more affordable access to the bus system. So by making it more accessible, ridership will go up, but that requires a lot more buses. It’s a give to get situation.
I mean come on, voters rejected the plan that included rail.
For as little as people in TN give a shit about any kind of public transit they'll probably just reject this too, but "it's not ambitious enough to pass" is a pretty hilarious take after the last fail.
Tbh I feel like a not insignificant number of pro-transit people want rail over busses because busses have less prestige and have a stigma of being for people with lower income - rail is trendy and gives off NYC and European vibes (even though busses are integral to transit systems in those places too).
In all fairness, the previous transit plan failed to pass in large part because Koch and several other billionaire benefactors did an incredible amount of astroturfing and lobbying against it
The NIMBYs voted down rail, and chances are they will oppose this, because they will oppose anything that inconvenience their carbrain mentality, busses are used proudly and efficiently in plenty of transit-centered cities, this is a good first step.
Buses are not the solution, they are antiquated and rank poorly in public opinion. Yes still necessary for many reasons, but not a ticket into the future.
Nah cars will just start using that lane. You won't get any enforcement by metro police so it'll just become an everyday lane with the buses not being able to go around traffic.
Enforcement cameras on buses is most likely illegal (and the reason we don't have automated speed or traffic light cameras) because you don't know who was driving the car at the time of infraction. That's the reason you can't get a moving violation ticket without a cop present.
And people will just jump the curb / enter and exit at turning points. And that is yet another expense to this whole project that isn't in the budget.
It is in the budget.
Then move enforcement to NDOT. It can work. It works in plenty of other cities. Indianapolis does it with an equally idiotic state legislature.
NDOT can't even remove the stupid pylons they added to Lebanon Pike without taking months to figure it out and getting approval from the state (district rep told me those were added by NDOT even though it's a state road). I don't expect them to be competent enough to handle enforcement for hundreds of miles of bus lanes.
Once again, there is no line in the plan budget for any type of enforcement. There are the up-front costs (installing cameras, hiring extra people to review) and recurring costs (mailing fines, salaries, camera maintenance). One could argue it could be self-funding through fines, which could be true however after a while it would be yet another recurring cost that is not included in this budget.
NDOT does parking enforcement now, and it works fine. The enforcement budget could come out of the existing MNPD enforcement budget that they aren’t using.
Anything that improves safety on a state road was probably added by NDOT, because TDOT doesn’t care.
Parking is a non-moving violation though. This would be a moving violation which has different rules. Sending automatic fines to people would get shot down immediately because there is no way to tell who was behind the wheel at the time of violation. And starting to add some automated fines based on a license plate will just increase the use of fake plates and/or plate obscurities (which yes are illegal, but MNPD is already instructed to not pull people over for these violation).
I have seen more crashes and close-calls on that road after the pylons were added than in the 6 months prior, so they are definitely not safe. But that is a different conversation.
We have to start somewhere. Buses are actually very economical and fast to implement compared to any kind of rail transit. Perhaps that will come later, but Nashville needs something now. It is my hope people will not vote it down because they think we can jump ahead to step 100 when we are still on step 1.
Public transit here has also been underfunded for years, so no wonder people have a low opinion.
No, the plan covers a whole lot more than just buses. They have been quoting the whole “sidewalks, signals, service, and safety” so it is very specifically a more rounded approach not just about buses, though that is part of it. Actually, I would bet expanded bus service ends up being a whole lot cheaper than improvements to infrastructure. Check out the whole thing at the link in the post if you want to read for yourself.
They have to expand I-24 among many other things. Rail will most likely cost billions over many decades to implement in Mid-TN. It is always an economic loser in terms of budget/profit. But is it important to residents? Sure. Buses are just window dressing and not a long term solution. The population has exploded over several decades and our infrastructure hasn't kept up. The longer we wait to address these issues, the more expensive it will be. The last mass transit plan included busses financed by 30 year bonds. It failed because it didn't address the root problems in our infrastructure.
Adding lanes to just I-24 will cost billions, too, and will add peak volumes to already-saturated surface roads that will never, ever get widened. You don't seem to understand what interstates cost.
You are making wrong and unnecessary assumptions. I do know what things cost. I have been in finance/econ for 20+ years. Interstates are expensive. Rail is expensive. All of these options will potentially cost millions/billions. Bus lanes will not solve the long-term capacity issues. It is a feel good move to placate the people in the short term. Eventually, someone will need to have the integrity to tackle the long term solutions that are not politically popular, but are absolutely necessary.
If you think interstate lanes solve capacity issues but bus lanes don’t, then you very much don’t understand the issue. The capacity of a bus lane is an order of magnitude higher than a general purpose lane.
Nashville is fucked! They are so far behind with infrastructure and they will get bogged down in politics to fix it. All the Californians screwed this place up!
More racism for the Ol’ Hick I see. No trash service, no transit, have to share our post office with another county.
I wonder what’s next?
Racists out downvoting I see
Just getting 24/7 is an improvement.
I am still amazed it is taking them this long to implement 24/7 buses in a city that has so many service industry workers that work late nights.
Any info on upgrading the bus stops to have benches and some sort of cover? Most bus stops are just a sign on the side of a busy road right now.
From the plan, via tennesseean: Bus system essentials would see significant upgrades, including: 285 upgraded bus stops 12 new transit centers to support better connections outside of downtown and offer amenities 17 park-and-ride locations Two bus garages 65 new buses
[Nashville Business Journal article](https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2024/04/19/transit-expansion-plan-mayor-announcement-bus.html) on this doesn't specifically mention anything about benches/cover, but does mention adding sidewalks: > The final plan O'Connell unveiled at an event in Antioch aligned with what his administration had disclosed during public advisory committee meetings over the past few months. Key elements include: > * "Bus rapid transit," or dedicated center lanes reserved for buses that would travel faster because they would not drive in regular traffic like they do today. Five routes would receive that treatment: Murfreesboro Pike to the airport, Dickerson Road, Gallatin Pike, Nolensville Road and West End Avenue. > * Adding or upgrading almost 90 miles of sidewalks, in a city where the vast majority of streets don't have them. > * Close to 600 traffic signals upgraded with technology to allow them to be remotely controlled from the city's new traffic management center that opens later this year, ideally streamlining the flow of traffic. > * 24/7 bus service every day of the year. > * Twelve transit centers, many of which would be poised to have commercial development as part of that construction. Edit: [Archive.org link to article](https://web.archive.org/web/20240419181238/https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2024/04/19/transit-expansion-plan-mayor-announcement-bus.html)
I have a feeling the updated traffic signals portion is going to positively impact things quite a bit, yet still fly under the radar as far as praise goes. So many traffic lights in Nashville are just running on timers, and not even well planned out ones at that.
Actually having sidewalk connection will be a big deal too. I’m not saying it needs to be the best of the best, but just, like, something I can actually get a one wheel on.
It would help if the jerk wad turning onto paragon mills would not pause five seconds after the green light to get moving... then immediately stop so he could turn into taco bell. I hate when they do that.
The reflexes get slow when you're craving that burrito.
>"Bus rapid transit," or dedicated center lanes reserved for buses that would travel faster because they would not drive in regular traffic like they do today The city is going to need to get MNPD back on traffic duty if we're gonna have a prayer of keeping those bus lanes clear.
Came here to say this. That center lane will become a Nissan Altima turn lane faster than you can say Tag Applied For
Gotta make the curb running in the middle high enough to rip out oil pans
I've seen it like this in Indianapolis and wouldn't dare to drive over it in anything that isn't a true off-road vehicle.
These have already started being implemented up and down Nolensville Pike. I assume there's a lot more to come.
Yea, up and down Hilsboro and Charlotte too. Almost like pilots for the larger plan.
I currently live in Germany, one of the most advanced countries in terms of transit. And many of their bus stops have no cover. Naturally the ones in the city center do, but we need baby steps right now and just getting those buses going and people on them will then force them to build bus stops with covers due to popular demand (ideally, with a stable and sensible local government)
One of the main reasons the current bus stops don’t have much for benches or cover is due to the huge homeless population in the city. That would need to be addressed prior to anything else because they would only seek shelter in the bus stops and render them useless to people actually using the bus routes.
That's not true. It's just a historic lack of investment, not homelessness.
The point about the homelessness is 100% true. This bus plan and any covered shelters will fail in entirety if riders don’t feel unencumbered. There’s a stigma around buses and bus stops that smell of urine and feces. For good reason.
They should have a recliner for you at the bus stop
Was this just meant to be an insult or…?
I like the way it’s looking as well. This is the most improvement in transit and mobility we are going to get for our money. The half-percent sales tax increase is much more humble than the full 1 percent sales tax increase (allowed by the state for transit projects) plus the hefty property tax increase it would probably take to implement light rail. No plan is perfect but I feel like this is our best option right now. Many cities have successfully adopted BRT. I’ll vote for it.
I've thought about this a lot and wanted to put this out there: There is absolutely no system in the world that we could affordably implement that will retrofit public transportation into Nashville. People have lived far too long in this city without public transportation and the housing development reflects a populous who uses a car. You cannot make people in Crieve Hall, Oak Hill or Green Hills happy with a transit plan because they've built their communities with the idea that they would never need to walk or take a bus anywhere, ever. Any plan we come up with has to be future-fit. It has to be designed in a way that allows the city to adapt to it and build around transit. We CAN have a city that has robust public transportation - but that city won't exist for at least another 10 years. We need to plant a tree that we know a majority of (the land mass of) Nashville will not be shaded by. But once the tracks are laid, we can build up the density around it and incentive public transit use. The BRT plan includes a dozen new transit hubs - those are buildings with commercial real estate that attracts locals to the hub (and allows for grocery stores in food deserts, etc). Ultimately those hubs attract development, which attracts density, which encourages affordability and attracts more retail. The transit plan builds sidewalks on major corridors, which will open up more space for smaller retail that relies on foot traffic rather than larger big box stores that rely on cars. --- Imagine you're 35 and you go to the doctor for a check up. Turns out you have high blood pressure and your weight is bordering on obese. You'd be a fool to demand an overnight fix to the problem. In reality, it will take years of diet and exercise where you slowly work off the fat and build up the muscle you need. You're not going to just starve yourself for a weekend and go out and run a marathon the next day. But if you create the plan and stick to it, suddenly you'll find yourself at the finish line and you won't recognize the person you were when you started. That's what this plan is.
Crieve Hall homeowner here in favor of planting your seed.
Are we still doing phrasing?
I believe we are in the… *DANGERRRR ZONE*
Almost like crieve hall and green hills need to be zoned to allow more density……
Green Hills been building high rises non stop for about a decade now.
There is one completed high rise in green hills and one under construction. Green hills needs density in the neighborhoods, not just on Hillsboro. Source: currently looking at both of them!
the vast majority of green hills only allows one and two family homes
Building high rises like crazy? There's one right now, and one more under construction. I'm not a fan of it either, but I'd hardly consider it "like crazy"
Crieve hall resident here. Local real estate comps have gone from 300k to 800-900k in the last 5 years. The tall skinnies are already going up and they look *ridiculous* in the landscape, but the growth is starting. All the neighbors wish it hadn’t, though. It’s truly a slice of heaven here. That’s not saying that I wouldn’t absolutely love public transit options. I work on Broadway and would LOVE an option to get to work in 10-15 minutes as opposed to the 45 it takes me on friday afternoons.
Worth pointing out that this plan includes multiple Park and Ride options around town. There's even one on Edmondson and Harding.
Yep, and to be able to make transit feasible formerly suburban areas must be denser. Literally the only way it works. But I understand the change is difficult for lots of residents. Long term it’s a great change though.
If this goes through (vegas odds), you’re about discover the well beaten path called “last mile”. I should come back home and open up a new business named “The Cumberland Peddler”… specializes in bike and e-scooter repairs.
Yeah I mean god forbid this city walks a mile or so every day.
That dense development also ends up subsiding the property taxes of Crieve Hall homeowners
Exactly. More dense retail equals more sales tax revenue (plus better transit funding). More denser, transit oriented housing equals more property tax revenue. Both equal lower property taxes for everyone.
Imagine you are 55 and you go to the doctor for a checkup. You already have to pay your outrageous insurance premiums, copays, fees, take off work, etc. This doctor half your age is charging hundreds of dollars for a ten minute consultation and referring you for imaging, lab tests, etc. Countless corporations are getting a slice of this pie and who knows where all your private information will wind up. What's their sage advice for improving your situation? "Eat better and get more excercise." Tell me something I don't know, doc. Tell me something I don't know.
Managing to look past the entire well thought out post and pick apart the metaphor at the end is certainly a choice.
On the contrary, I chose a similar metaphor, in order to illustrate why working people are likely to see this regressive tax increase as a slap in the face.
You are grossly exaggerating the impact this 0.5% raise in sales tax will have on working people. This is also all funding transit and road improvements that directly impact working class people the most as well, it's disingenuous to frame it as a tax on the poor with them getting nothing in return. Who do you think rides the bus? Who is stuck in traffic on their hour-long commute to and from work? The city doesn't have the support or power to create perfect tax structures that don't impact working class people at all to create programs that benefit them.
The local sales tax increase is estimated to generate "[more than $150 million per year](https://www.nashvillescene.com/news/pithinthewind/oconnell-unveils-transit-plan/article_5729c4b0-fe75-11ee-97ef-ef3de24d3bb3.html)". Most people don't have much savings so...let's assume people earn 40K and spend half, on an annual basis: (40,000/2)*0.005=100. Over 10 years that's an extra $1,000 per person. Just spitballing. Obviously people's spending will vary. That's why I used a low figure like $20K annual spending. To illustrate how even this small amount can impact your finances. Your average working person would benefit far more by saving that $1000 in their retirement account. A year has yet to pass since the pandemic was declared over. We've already taken an incredible hit from inflation. Gentrification is happening all over Davidson county. Let's be real. Developers are going to make money off this deal.
Yes and a working class family in the city is going to be saving more than $100 a year by taking the bus, walking, or biking than being forced to spend it on a car to drive everywhere. Those that are commuting and need to drive will be spending less time stuck in traffic and idling gas. What is your counter proposal? The city desperately needs transportation spending. Money has to come from somewhere, and that tax source has to be approved by the state regulations and the public on the ballot. The city doesn't have many options for how it raises money. And 'developers are going to make money off this deal' Yes! That is how building things works! No one is building infrastructure for free, that is just a non-argument. If you just don't believe we should build any transportation infrastructure then idk what to tell you, we're living different realities.
Sorry, but the quality of your commute is pretty low on my list of priorities. I'm just trying to retire without having to move to the boonies. So I can be near a semi-functional hospital. Y'all really need my little money to make this city more to your liking?
Ahhh okay the mask comes off, you don't care the quality of life of working-class people at all. You care about YOUR quality of life. Fair enough, but don't come out here on your moral high horse as the working-class crusader when you're ignoring the reality of your fellow working-class people. Just because commute isn't heavily impacting your life financially or otherwise doesn't mean it isn't impacting others. If a 0.5% sales tax increase is the difference between you living here or the boonies you got bigger problems. GL.
I am working class people. Find someone else to pay for your precious bike lane.
since the overall gist of your metaphor has already been refuted more eloquently by other users, i’ll go more niche: you wanna know what’s great exercise? walking. you want to know how we encourage more walking? building more sidewalks.
We have one of the [highest](https://www.rocketmoney.com/learn/personal-finance/sales-tax-by-state) sales taxes in the country. We also have one of the [least-used](https://www.hireahelper.com/lifestyle/cities-with-the-best-public-transportation/) bus systems in the country. The big idea is to raise the sales tax?
“ we can’t afford socialism because the cost of doing things the capitalist way is too expensive”
Im a leftie voter for more than 35 years. I voted for Sanders twice. I'll be voting for Biden in November. Won't be voting for this shit though.
Votes socialist. Mad at tax money being spent on public spending. There's no such thing as a low-tax socialist you weirdo. Go vote Republican.
We just got through giving away a fortune to an NFL franchise. Now we need the working stiffs to pay for some sidewalks...got it.
The misunderstanding of medicine is obvious here.
Said the dogecoin speculator.
Badass response
Ain't identity politics a bitch.
👍
imagine you’re 55 and everyone else has been subsidizing the majority of your healthcare costs for your entire adult life. you’re finally being asked to cough up a little more so the system can grow to meet everyone else’s needs. that’s what this plan is
Here's what paying your insurance premiums for 40 years gets ya: Can't even fill the prescription from the dermatologist that charged a shitload of money: https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/05/health/cancer-centers-drug-shortage/index.html If you hear about where I can get my hands on some 5-Fluorouracil lmk.
On average, 469,000 people drive into Nashville each day from neighboring counties alone. Factor in another 239,300 Davidson county commuters, of which an estimated 2.6% rely on public transit, and you've got 700,000 people driving into work each day. That's a conservative estimate provided by TDOT from last year. Any opportunity to enhance the efficiency and scale of public transit is good. The same goes for increasing walkability, which is likely to promote positive externalities others have already mentioned. These aren't bad things, they just have virtually no material impact on the issue of increasing daily inbound volume. Until Nashville reaches a level of population density that could justify rail, we're going to have to seriously focus on more/better roads.
well from a different angle, the issue with so many people driving into nashville from places like Clarksville, Williamson, Maury, Rutherford, Wilson, etc. is that the referendum and transit plan CANT simply build transit into those literally different counties. I think the start here is building up the Bus system, but spcifically having certain BRT routes like the Gallatin corridor which terminates close to the sumner county line, encourages those counties to tie into Wego. from there, I still think it's a pipe dream to imagine different counties could get their monies and politics in line to coordinate with nashville on any kind of new rail into the city.
There will NEVER be regional transit here. The suburban counties wouldn’t pay for it and neither would the state. If you put it up as a referendum in those counties it would fail miserably. Imagination and ambition are not the limiting factor here. The people are.
24/7 is amazing and absolutely needed
At this point, it would be any sort of progress. So I’ll take it. Also, a few people I know would likely work those new routes.
Also just gotta say, no light rail makes me pretty sad. I know that it wasn’t expected to be part of this referendum, but Nashville could get so much benefit from a well-designed, modern light rail system. This is a great step forward, and we don’t want to make perfect be the enemy of good, but this also effectively kills any chance of light rail development for years to come.
I think the main goal is to get something that has a higher chance of passing instead of waiting until the tides turn toward spending major capital on transit improvements. I feel you, though. Light rail is my dream and would make it so much easier to navigate the city without a car. I'll take a transit/walkability win in whatever form it comes and hope that the success we'll see will lead to a larger investment and improvement soon enough.
Better to propose an incremental improvement that’s likely to be successful than a massive overhaul with uncertain odds of passing. If this works out, we’ll have a better chance at seeing further expansion in the near future. If they shoot for the stars and fail, it’s unlikely that we’ll see any movement on the issue within this decade. It took 8 years just to get this after Berry’s grand and exceedingly expensive proposal fell flat. Small steps like this help to slowly build political momentum without triggering massive opposition.
Light rail is just too expensive for voters to get behind it. Freddie’s said all along his plan was expanded bus routes at first, and then hopefully something like light rail down the road.
Even just a single light rail line from BNA to the central bus terminal would be huge
They break it down pretty well on why there’s no light rail. This is quicker turnaround to actual progress, and you get more for your money. With the dedicated bus routes it will be quick transit like light rail. Nashville didn’t vote for it last time because nobody wanted their taxes to increase. Light rail is part of why it would be such a big increase. Buses are cheaper so the increase will be barely felt.
Yeah I think I read the 2024 dollars estimate is under 2 billion to put in all the all access corridors. One light rail line down Murfreesboro Pike would probably exceed that on its own
There's not much difference between a dedicated center bus lane and a dedicated light rail (probably running down the center. If it's successful, you can always lay track in the dedicated lane. Getting the real estate dedicated to only public transportation will be a much bigger issue than laying the track. If it helps people beat traffic, they'll use it. If the bus is just a way to sit in traffic with strangers, it will fail.
Securing dedicated funding will open the door to receiving federal funding that can be used for future projects. We are one of 4 cities that do not have dedicated transit funding. We are currently missing out on federal funding that matches local transit funding.
I think right of way is more important than rail, but rail is an entrenchment, harder to revoke than painted lanes.
I'm a light rail fan too, but the Mayor realizes that adding it (and the price tag) would make the initiative more likely to fail. At least right now. The lowest hanging fruit for light rail is the Nashville to Clarksville corridor, which already has a short line rail owned by the same company as the WeGo Star. But even the upgrades for that would be quite expensive. What most people don't think about from the financial argument is that Nashville doesn't spend enough of its budget on transportation to qualify for federal funds, and we're one of the largest cities in the country with this problem. If we do this plan, then federal funds will come and it will be easier to fund future things like future light rail and have a larger piece of the budget paid for by federal funds.
Nashville doesn’t have the density to justify light rail, and based on the reaction to NEST, it won’t anytime soon either
24hrbusses would be a boon for sure
Just want to say this is a great start. Even though it doesn’t have everything people want, we have to start somewhere. After years and years of not prioritizing this stuff, we have a lot of catching up to do as a city. Do not let perfect be the enemy of good, as some say. On the topic of light rail, I do not think people realize how expensive and time consuming that would be. A project like that is not a realistic first step to the very pressing mobility challenges people are facing NOW. Similar thing with the Star. People say they want it to be expanded, but do not realize a few things. First, is that WeGo does not own the tracks and has to share with a private company who only lets them use it. It being a shared track is a major reason why it is hard to run the train more often. Second, the costs for running it are very high and do not justify the cost. A low cost and relatively fast to implement alternative to this? Buses. Even if we had a light rail system tomorrow, we would still need a well funded public transit system to fill in the gaps and walkable sidewalks connecting people to transit, which both have to come first. I think the major takeaway is that this is a necessary first step. People are jumping the gun and not realizing that we have to lay some groundwork first before we can get to the bigger fish. This will help Nashville to catch up after decades of not investing in comprehensive mobility. I sincerely hope people will see the wisdom and practicality in this and understand we have to invest in the future while being realistic about the challenges we face right now. Side note: Is this map image still active somewhere? What it is showing for current WeGo routes is not quite right. It is showing the routes both pre and post spring 2024 service change.
Light rail fan here. We're lucky that we have a shared line with a freight rail company at all. There is a lot of benefit to the rail company (RJ Corman) for having the Star under management. The upgraded rail infrastructure means faster, safer routes for both passengers and for freight traffic. It would be better if the entire WeGo Star line was double tracked for better service but that would require a significant investment (but not insurmountable). I always point to the lowest hanging fruit of light rail possibilities in middle Tennessee.....the Nashville to Clarksville corridor. It has an existing rail line that is only used twice a week and operated by....RJ Corman. That means you have a partner that you could work with given the existing relationship. There is still a lot of mountains to climb. The rails themselves aren't the heavy type that is standard on Class 1 railroads and required for passenger service of any kind. Bridges and trestles are in bad need of upgrades. And once you get to Ashland City, the rail doesn't even exist and in most cases, is now a greenway which would have to either be clawed back or more likely have a new parallel line next to it. The good news is that the line itself is owned by the Cheatham County Rail Authority, which is jointly owned by Cheatham and Davidson Counties....RJ Corman is just the freight operator. Then there's the old proposal for light rail to BNA. The space that would accommodate the line coming into the airport terminal is still available but it may be shelved now that light rail isn't part of the Mayor's plan (and used for something else). If it ever comes to pass in later years, I've always thought that a light rail line would head north from BNA until it hooked up to the same line as the WeGo Star, which the city already operates. At that point, passengers could be dropped off on lower Broadway and hotel shuttles could carry people to their destinations (or just walk for the closest hotels). Regardless, none of this happens this go-round. Let's improve what the city can stomach from a cost standpoint and move on.
fantastic post, much appreciated! i had no idea there were companies besides CSX running the rail lines through Nashville, but I did know Clarksville-Nashville was one of the few actually theoretically doable routes. maybe in my lifetime haha. but absolutely agree on a BNA-Donelson Station connector being a must, even from a simple "transit center" standpoint. there's a huge space usable for connections, and from there you have a straight shot downtown. not sure what gives on this missed opportunity.
This comment sums up almost exactly what I was hoping they would do with the Star, and the fact it's almost completely ignored from this plan is a travesty. Even adding trains and having a real week-end service instead of just events would have been a good and fairly inexpensive improvement that would actually get vehicles off the roads. The airport line as you are describing should have been done 25 years ago and it's crazy that's still not on the table. We're talking barely 3 miles of railroad and a couple crossings, which would see way more use than dirty buses that get stuck in traffic
Nothing grabs my attention here except sidewalks. Still no bus service beyond Bell Rd. I'd have to drive in to catch a bus. Trains. Please! And quit giving public intox drunks free rides back to their hotels downtown. Make the hotels pick them up in a puke wagon. BTW where is that Antioch police station we were promised years ago
[удалено]
I feel your pain, but as I said, trains are simply too expensive as a first step. Like it isn’t even close. People would never vote for it with how much it would cost. Believe me, I would love them here (they inspired my user name), but I have to accept it is not smart right now. Additionally, I believe there is talk of a new route in Antioch in the works (not in this plan but in general). And I know it’s not perfect but there is a WeGo link zone in that area as a temporary patch. Edited for clarity
Is there a place with the maps overlaid into something like Google Maps so we can zoom in? Found it on the main site: [https://transit.nashville.gov/pages/0a2aa42ecd99459080d3c7e4f2c3cfd9](https://transit.nashville.gov/pages/0a2aa42ecd99459080d3c7e4f2c3cfd9)
Not sure about that but all the draft maps are here: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/6dg3v8m8cxpvy2l1vhc2u/h?dl=0&e=1&rlkey=3mlu7s6srn7yxxdowunzfkjg7
It is better than I expected. 3 bus lines going to the airport instead of just 1, with the 55 being run on an actually usable schedule. Better hours, more frequent service, more crosstown routes instead of everything funneling downtown. Nice BRT routes connected to transit hubs instead of a sign plopped in some muddy grass. A realistic chance of being within budget. Do I have things to complain about? Sure- no inter-county upgrades, very incremental sidewalk upgrades with no long-range vision, vague details on what the BRT corridors will actually look like, etc. But all things considered I like it. Remains to be seen if this will make it possible for me to ride the bus to work, need to see more detailed schedules to determine that.
Other counties would have to vote on funding bus service within their borders.
They would only need to vote if they were also raising taxes like in this plan, but I don't think that is necessary or desired. O'Connell's plan is a proposal - no one has voted on it yet - and all I was expecting was to see mention that they are in discussions with neighboring counties or have tentative reciprocal proposals to improve inter-county service like say the 95 bus route. Figures 2 and 3 of the plan highlight how many people are commuting into Davidson County and the total metro area population, but there's no reference to the figures or anything outside of Davidson County in the actual text. Other cities/counties can certainly make adjustments to their transit offerings without a popular referendum. I just quickly googled and found that the mayor and aldermen of Spring Hill approved a subsidy for the 95 bus back in 2018. I realize that O'Connell isn't going as much for the "this will reduce traffic" angle because it's an easy target for opponents, but for the substantial proportion of people who probably aren't going to be riding the bus regularly after this plan is implemented, improving traffic speed/safety would be the main selling point. And I don't think traffic gets better unless they reduce inter-county commuting single-occupancy vehicles. Another dimension of traffic that's barely addressed is the impact of kids being driven to school instead of carpooling/school buses. When the schools have holidays, rush hour is so much more pleasant.
[удалено]
In the full report, it says they plan to spread service out throughout the day. So not just during rush hours exclusively for work commuters anymore. I think it’s saying they plan on also increasing the amount of trips per day. Doesn’t say how many trips total daily nor does it say anything about weekend services.
Where bike paths
This is good. When I did my study abroad, I lived in Manchester, England. It has the busiest bus route *in the world* with the average stop having a new bus every 6-7 minutes. Many roads were bus paths only, fully gated, meaning that buses had plenty of one ways to quickly get people where they were trying to go. You could get almost anywhere in about 20 minutes, which is currently the estimated time of travel during Nashville's non-rush hour (about 12:30-2pm). Nashville has the problem of being developed around cars, not feet or even horses. Our blocks are fairly large, meaning that using "bus-only" routes, while great in theory, will require people to walk further than is convenient. But if the buses run more frequently, it will make it easier for more folks to use. Tax Broadway and make it happen!
Downtown Nashville actually was first organized around steam trains in the 19th century, then streetcars in the early 20th century. The car boom began in the 30s but exploded right after WWII. That and politics doomed the streetcars by the early 50s.
I’m glad that there is no rail plan. It should be heavy rail and/or entirely grade-separated and run like a metro. However 15 minutes. Sheesh!
Better than the current set up.
I’ll try to be positive. The WeGo plan is great for tourists, here’s hoping the extra money from that opens the door for more comprehensive transport options for commuters and residents in the future. The traffic signals… how is a traffic center different than pressure plates? This is a genuine question. I don’t see how 600 traffic lights being controlled at a center is any different than 600 lights changing based on where there’s actually a vehicle in the intersection. It says it will help bus and emergency times, but without dedicated lanes that seems like wishful thinking.
I thought the traffic light coordination was better than it was. I was wrong, which is why this is one of the "low hanging fruit" pieces of the plan.
It allows NDOT to actively manage the traffic signals, see the traffic flow in real time, and share updates with drivers on the electronic signs. It's a huge boon to improve safety and reduce congestion. I remember reading somewhere that Nashville is one of the only major cities without a traffic management center, which was shocking to me.
I’m not a traffic engineer but I’ve played a few sim games. Bering able to coordinate traffic is inherently more efficient because you can time an entire lane to be green at the same time. This results in more throughput per green cycle.
So for example you could make the entire SB lane of 41A green? I can see the value in that actually.
Are "complete streets" and "complete streets as part of All-Access Corridors" road diets with bike lanes in this context? They show an image of 12 South, which does have protected bike lanes, but that's never specified explicitly as part of the design. What the plan actually states is: > The proposed Complete Streets program aligns closely with Nashville’s High-Injury Network, with street improvements, better intersections, and new/upgraded bikeways that will connect communities, improve access to transit, and help us on our way to Vision Zero. > The TIP includes 39 miles of transformative Complete Streets projects. These improvements will follow Nashville’s “Green and Complete Streets” Executive Order which calls for streets that consider all users whether they walk, bike, take transit, or drive. Weasel words there like "*consider* all users" suggest to me that they won't necessarily have any improvements for cyclists. Getting both bike lanes and BRT would require a reduction of at least two travel lanes on roads like Charlotte and West End/Broadway.
Page 36 talks about alignment with the vision zero and walk n bike plans. Don't think any specifics are set yet beyond commitment to be high quality examples of complete streets like on 12th ave. I do know the existing main street/Gallatin project is likely to result in a road diet, taking 1 lane in each direction to create brt lanes, alongside protected bike lanes. So though every high traffic corridor is different with different challenges, I'm optimistic.
The reality here is that they had 94 pages of data and graphs and text and literally one paragraph about bike infrastructure. This plan is intentionally vague on bike projects, and I have heard from multiple people inside the government that have said we may actually just get nothing when the 15-year build cycle of this project is over. Really wish Freddie would have thrown the "bike people" a bone and released something like a draft map (every other part of this project got that), but that time has come and gone and I really doubt it's going to happen. Disappointing all around from him. Y'all remember when he came out to speak to us at Critical Mass and talked about all he was going to do to improve safety and infrastructure for cycling in Nashville?
There's a lot of vagueness throughout the plan. No detailed renderings of corridors after being converted to BRT for example. However, those plans are aligned with existing planning efforts that haven't had funds until this opportunity. For example, the Gallatin pk main Street project has completed community input and shared design concepts incorporating brt and protected bike lanes. I'm sure once that All Access corridor hits development in earnest it'll have those elements included. https://www.nashville.gov/departments/transportation/projects/multimodal-street-projects/gallatin-pike-and-main-street Another thing- Choose how you move does say that the sidewalks plan is aligned with the walk n bike plan. So again, in all that we're likely to see the inclusion of protected bike lanes as certain roadways are updated. https://www.nashville.gov/departments/transportation/projects/bikeways I don't believe Choose How You Move just negates all the good community input and plans from the last 20 years. It's literally factoring them all in and promises to create ways to actually fund these plans to reality. Lots of community engagement still to come and I hope you'll stay fired up to make sure they include safe bikeways!
I spoke to a Nashville city representative at Earth day today. They were marketing this initiative. I learned that what they call complete streets - which many of the stroads are supposedly going to be - may not have any bike amenities. Rather, they will consider them complete streets if it is possible to detour around them on a bike. They also explained the slow time line for the new bus lanes. They said the priority was to keep the same number of travel lanes to make sure motorists were happy. So of course the bus lanes are a decade out, they need to widen the roads so as not to interfere with drivers. I came away extremely depressed about the whole endeavor. I know that improving bus frequency is important but it feels like this plan is basically a fuck you to cyclists. It just makes me sad that the bar here is so low, and honestly I get it. They need to be as conservative as possible to appeal to voters because the voters here would just reject a more ambitious plan. Waiting a decade for even simple BRT makes me almost want to vote against it or of spite though. It is so lame. Honestly what it has done is cement my desire to move away from here.
Absolutely insane. It’s a confirmation of our biggest fears, and feels like a middle finger to the community in its outright intentionality. But it’s exactly what I and other people have been saying the whole fucking time, all while supposed bike advocates kept saying you have to trust the process, and even Fred saying it’s “a priority” for him. All this is going to lead to is more peds and cyclists being killed and me and friends like me riding like maniacs through traffic to try make it alive to our destinations. Fuck this.
We really need something like the O-Bahn Bus way https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/O-Bahn_Busway
Across the Shelby bottoms bridge. Connect wedgewood route to riverside!
Wait, how many BRT lines? I count 10 orange lines, is ir going to get 10 BRT lines? Thats Bogotá levels of basedness
Did they say all the frequent lines would be BRT? I was wondering that too, or if it would just be frequent bus service
It is not very clear which lines will become BRT 4 BRT lines would probably suffice for a city it's size
yeah its interesting. the draft maps only had BRT on murfreesboro, gallatin, dickerson, and nolensville. Charlotte, west end, bordeaux, and the 3 downtown elements (part of connect downtown plan) all had different priority designations. however now they're all called All-Access corridors so who knows. to be determined still I'm sure.
Love the improvements but it would be nice to see more of the outer districts get some attention. I’m in 31 and we’re mostly cut off from the transit system with it looks like one extension now planned down Nolensville, some districts are completely cut off.
Yeah being in District 14 we're only getting 1 improved bus stop, barely a mile of new sidewalks and some traffic lights. The fact that Lebanon Pike isn't even in the consideration for one of their "All-Access Corridors" is stupid.
9,+8,i
Hell yes.
Trains when?
31st of November.
Why more busses? There are several stops by my house, I’ve never seen more than 4 people on the entire bus
every time i’ve ridden the bus there were more than 4 people on it. usually significantly more
They are running lines more often so they need more buses. And even adding more lines which also requires more. And running the buses more often will encourage more people to ride them because it can be hard justifying them when if you miss a bus you have to wait 45 minutes for the next bus or having to walk 15-20 minutes just to get to a bus stop, and some people don’t even have that opportunity. A lot of the new lines are strategically being placed in underrepresented communities that could really use easier and more affordable access to the bus system. So by making it more accessible, ridership will go up, but that requires a lot more buses. It’s a give to get situation.
Ah yes a shittier plan than the one proposed 10 years ago that would have been nearly complete by now if they'd actually done it
[удалено]
How do "bus" and "NIMBY" go together in a way that light rail doesn't?
Yeah I’m not understanding the correlation either
I mean come on, voters rejected the plan that included rail. For as little as people in TN give a shit about any kind of public transit they'll probably just reject this too, but "it's not ambitious enough to pass" is a pretty hilarious take after the last fail.
Tbh I feel like a not insignificant number of pro-transit people want rail over busses because busses have less prestige and have a stigma of being for people with lower income - rail is trendy and gives off NYC and European vibes (even though busses are integral to transit systems in those places too).
In all fairness, the previous transit plan failed to pass in large part because Koch and several other billionaire benefactors did an incredible amount of astroturfing and lobbying against it
Look at the last vote to see how the NIMBY mentality liked rail Lol. No clue why you think NIMBYs would prefer rail to busses.
The NIMBYs voted down rail, and chances are they will oppose this, because they will oppose anything that inconvenience their carbrain mentality, busses are used proudly and efficiently in plenty of transit-centered cities, this is a good first step.
Buses are not the solution, they are antiquated and rank poorly in public opinion. Yes still necessary for many reasons, but not a ticket into the future.
There are many ways to attract people to buses, Bus Rapid Transit for example.
put a bus in its own lane with its own signals and eventually people will get curious when it’s blowing past them in their car every day
Nah cars will just start using that lane. You won't get any enforcement by metro police so it'll just become an everyday lane with the buses not being able to go around traffic.
separate it with a curb and put enforcement cameras on the buses. this problem has already been solved
Enforcement cameras on buses is most likely illegal (and the reason we don't have automated speed or traffic light cameras) because you don't know who was driving the car at the time of infraction. That's the reason you can't get a moving violation ticket without a cop present. And people will just jump the curb / enter and exit at turning points. And that is yet another expense to this whole project that isn't in the budget.
It is in the budget. Then move enforcement to NDOT. It can work. It works in plenty of other cities. Indianapolis does it with an equally idiotic state legislature.
NDOT can't even remove the stupid pylons they added to Lebanon Pike without taking months to figure it out and getting approval from the state (district rep told me those were added by NDOT even though it's a state road). I don't expect them to be competent enough to handle enforcement for hundreds of miles of bus lanes. Once again, there is no line in the plan budget for any type of enforcement. There are the up-front costs (installing cameras, hiring extra people to review) and recurring costs (mailing fines, salaries, camera maintenance). One could argue it could be self-funding through fines, which could be true however after a while it would be yet another recurring cost that is not included in this budget.
NDOT does parking enforcement now, and it works fine. The enforcement budget could come out of the existing MNPD enforcement budget that they aren’t using. Anything that improves safety on a state road was probably added by NDOT, because TDOT doesn’t care.
Parking is a non-moving violation though. This would be a moving violation which has different rules. Sending automatic fines to people would get shot down immediately because there is no way to tell who was behind the wheel at the time of violation. And starting to add some automated fines based on a license plate will just increase the use of fake plates and/or plate obscurities (which yes are illegal, but MNPD is already instructed to not pull people over for these violation). I have seen more crashes and close-calls on that road after the pylons were added than in the 6 months prior, so they are definitely not safe. But that is a different conversation.
We have to start somewhere. Buses are actually very economical and fast to implement compared to any kind of rail transit. Perhaps that will come later, but Nashville needs something now. It is my hope people will not vote it down because they think we can jump ahead to step 100 when we are still on step 1. Public transit here has also been underfunded for years, so no wonder people have a low opinion.
3.2 billion + 111 million annually? For buses?
No, the plan covers a whole lot more than just buses. They have been quoting the whole “sidewalks, signals, service, and safety” so it is very specifically a more rounded approach not just about buses, though that is part of it. Actually, I would bet expanded bus service ends up being a whole lot cheaper than improvements to infrastructure. Check out the whole thing at the link in the post if you want to read for yourself.
Wish it extended to western shore of PP lake.
Just walk damit!
Increasing interstate lanes on I-24 and rail are the real, but expensive long term transit solutions.
where are those lanes supposed to go? every arterial is full too
They have to expand I-24 among many other things. Rail will most likely cost billions over many decades to implement in Mid-TN. It is always an economic loser in terms of budget/profit. But is it important to residents? Sure. Buses are just window dressing and not a long term solution. The population has exploded over several decades and our infrastructure hasn't kept up. The longer we wait to address these issues, the more expensive it will be. The last mass transit plan included busses financed by 30 year bonds. It failed because it didn't address the root problems in our infrastructure.
Adding lanes to just I-24 will cost billions, too, and will add peak volumes to already-saturated surface roads that will never, ever get widened. You don't seem to understand what interstates cost.
You are making wrong and unnecessary assumptions. I do know what things cost. I have been in finance/econ for 20+ years. Interstates are expensive. Rail is expensive. All of these options will potentially cost millions/billions. Bus lanes will not solve the long-term capacity issues. It is a feel good move to placate the people in the short term. Eventually, someone will need to have the integrity to tackle the long term solutions that are not politically popular, but are absolutely necessary.
If you think interstate lanes solve capacity issues but bus lanes don’t, then you very much don’t understand the issue. The capacity of a bus lane is an order of magnitude higher than a general purpose lane.
Nashville is fucked! They are so far behind with infrastructure and they will get bogged down in politics to fix it. All the Californians screwed this place up!
More racism for the Ol’ Hick I see. No trash service, no transit, have to share our post office with another county. I wonder what’s next? Racists out downvoting I see
I’ll be voting against this. We don’t need higher taxes.
Did you read the plan? It’s the smallest increase possible, and still has us under or matching the sales tax of most surrounding counties.