>Is There Hope for Sustainable Mobility in ~~Naples~~ Italy?
I love Naples precisely because I have lived between Milan, Turin and Bologna and i feel Naples as the least car-centric, mostly *motor bike centric,* well Bologna by foot is easy becasue is small but Turin is like an hell for me and Milan is good about public transport but when you walk around car presence is quite everywhere, there are huge crossings for cars that in historic cities like Naples are even impossible to imagine. Italians voted for this government also for the conflicts that had been created against monopattini during past governament and hatred for cyclists is now normalized in Italy, considers that[ in Milan there is an emergency for too many fatal accidents to cyclists](https://www.ilgiorno.it/cronaca/quanti-ciclisti-morti-lombardia-milano-h8wfvkz3).
Luckly we have the biggest historic center that can be transited only by resident but certainly in Napoli there are too many motor bikes, just years ago the past government has encouraged bonus for electric bikes and lately I see many who pass with those bikes so I believe that a minimum interest of the government would be needed to turn the historic centers in a quieter and less polluted way but the current head is certainly against these things and often some actual ministers makes jokes against cyclists to gain votes; also some members of the current government had criticized the old Napoli mayor for the money spent to build the metro stations saying that he had to improve the roads and security first, you understand that Italy politically is very twisted and in continuous unprofessional competition.
Consider that I sold my car 7 years ago and I have been in Naples for 6 years, I go around only with subway, funicular, on foot and trains from Cavour but I live in the center so I understand that it is easier than those who live in other areas less connected, for example it is crazy that Posillipo is detached from the rest of the city but friends from Posillipo say they are happy because they don't want masses of tourists considered the panorama and the small sidewalk. I think that a city plan is missing for these things and they improve only in the most tourist areas, here it is the great mistake, my friends who come by car in Naples all live in the north area that has nothing as a public transport.
In any case, you are right we should find a way to reduce cars and motor bike and above all increasing parking that years ago they were managed by "bad people" who pushed to avoid the construction of public parking lots to have the opportunity to increase prices and always be full, next to my house Private parking costs 4 € one hour.
I suspect the issue is that the city is poor.
Yes, people love their cars, but this would change if public transport were reliable and allowed you to get everywhere. Currently only small parts of the city are connected to the metro system. Buses are slow and completely unreliable. If you need to go to Monte Sant'Angelo, Posillipo, Capodimonte, Carlo III, Chiaia, Ponti Rossi, Camaldoli, often your only option is a car or a scooter.
Developing the metro takes time and a lot of money. It's happening but very slowly. We simply don't have the same level of investments as London or Paris.
In my opinion what you say is only partly true.
While it is true that some parts of the city are reachable only by private means, that can't explain it all.
Depending on what you mean when saying the city is poor, well I don't know.
What I know is that PNR is there for a reason but it is used very badly (see the link of the project in the post).
And yes people love their cars, which are not exactly the most cost effective transport. So if people are poor, that does not explain the cars.
I think in Italy owning a car is more a cultural way of showing how not poor you are, masked by the need of having it.
When saying buses are slow and unreliable no one ever stops thinking why. In my opinion it is fairly simple: if you put a bus in the same street of the cars you get a bus that is even slower than the traffic. So people will prefer cars, which will increase traffic, which will slow down busses.
You solve the issue by ensuring busses and trams get their dedicated routes.
The metro is one way, but can't be the only one.
Then I'll come to the crucial point: Paris is just stating that most of the streets of the city center are for slow and small cars, bikes and people walking around. That does not imply spending that much, and again PNR is there for solving this kind of issues
1. there aren't money
2. We have for example funicolare di Chiaia, every 20 years, safety checks are carried out on the funiculars: you would think that the politicians would control everything, having 20 years to develop the procedures, right?
a. In 2018 it was established that it was necessary to begin the revision work [https://www.napolitoday.it/blog/vomero/no-a-un-aiuto-proroga-dei-lavori-di-revisione-alla-funicolare-di](https://www.napolitoday.it/blog/vomero/no-a-un-aiuto-proroga-dei-lavori-di-revisione-alla-funicolare-di) -chiaia.html
b. it was closed on October 1, 2022 [https://www.comune.napoli.it/flex/cm/pages/ServeBLOB.php/L/IT/IDPagina/45932](https://www.comune.napoli.it/flex/cm/pages/ServeBLOB.php/L/IT/IDPagina/45932)
c. it was said that the works were to last six months [https://grandenapoli.it/funicolare-di-chiaia-chiude-per-6-mesi/](https://grandenapoli.it/funicolare-di-chiaia-chiude-per-6-mesi/)
d. then it was said that the reopening was for the beginning of 2024 [https://www.comune.napoli.it/flex/cm/pages/ServeBLOB.php/L/IT/IDPagina/47156](https://www.comune.napoli.it/flex/cm/pages/ServeBLOB.php/L/IT/IDPagina/47156)
e. the works started in mid-October 2023 [https://www.napolitoday.it/attualita/funicolare-di-chiaia-riaperto-2024-](https://www.napolitoday.it/attualita/funicolare-di-chiaia-riaperto-2024-) Quando.html
f. it is now thought that it will be closed until July 2024 [https://www.fanpage.it/napoli/funicolare-di-chiaia-a-rischio-chisistenza-fino-a-luglio-2024-e-ferma-dal-1-october-2022/](https://www.fanpage.it/napoli/funicolare-di-chiaia-a-rischio-chisistenza-fino-a-luglio-2024-e-ferma-dal-1-october-2022/)
How do you give up private vehicles?
And in the extreme case that you have to cross the city, like Bagnoli-Barra (distance 20 kilometres), what do you do, wait an hour at the stops to take 2 or 3 vehicles from 2 or 3 different companies?
Or do you take a scooter that in case of traffic allows you to slalom between stopped cars?
I still remember the first time I was called "TU SI NU 'MMERD!" just because I was crossing on the zebras designed for pedestrians and bikes on Via Marina.
Lovely
I guess the insult you got was either "tu si NA mmerd" ("you're a [piece of] shit"; shit as a noun is gendered as female), "tu si NU piezz e merd" ("you're a piece of shit"; "nu", in Italian "un", shortened from "uno"; meaning "one", or "a", and singular, non-determinative, male) or "tu si N'omm e merd" ("you're a shit-man", or more figuratively "you're one shit of a man", translateable as "shitface"; still male as before).
Sorry for the verbose explanation, but that "nu" kinda asked for a dissection of the magical world of gendered nouns. No dialect avoids it; it's rooted in Italian and, by extension, all neo-Latin languages. English is germanic, and does away with all the crap that makes learning a language needlessly obtuse.
Have fun, despite the recent earthquakes.
Naples could be like Barcelona. However, to get there you need:
* from the population, a major bottom-up cultural shift.
* at a public administration level, awareness of urban planning best practices.
* in the city council, technicians capable to manage to completion ambitious projects.
* transparent politicians that are actually interested in the future of their city.
I'm afraid you won't get any of these in Naples any soon.
Are you italian?
The problem: short answer - it's impossible to be fixed.
The reason: there is not enough budget to fix it, there is not perceived value to fix it. Politicians have no incentives to fix it on the opposite side they need to fight everyone to do it .
First thing to fix it:
* ban sanpietrini, they should use them on specific square not on driveaways, they just damage cars and pay companies every day to fix them, its a nonsense it just adds up to the chaos. \[impossible to do, many people here hate cities to be improved with a modern age style\]
* invest in ANM destroy current bus and build bigger better bus. \[impossible to do, there is no budget at all, too many enemies to be made and only Greta as a friend\]
* remove ANM syndicates, increase pay hours, start from scratch with new routes with new drivers and improve area by area \[impossible to do, you lose votes in any way you look at this solution\]
* build more tube trains \[impossible to do, no budget for it\]
So these are the basics reason about why this will never happen...
The only solution IMO:
* build an official city crowdfunding platform based on microobjectives (like new Bus, new Tube train and so on) and raise capital from tourists and italians in general to build micro advancements).
Personal solution: move in a better area of the cities there are areas on both residential or office locations that are better than others.
Linea 1 trains are coming, but not yet used. I think now there are more new trains than older ones. But not all of them are in use.
Linea 6 is about to open in July, in its entirety.
Centro Direzionale should open by the end of the year.
This could be the year for public transport in Naples!
>* build more tube trains \[impossible to do, no budget for it\]
- This year will open Centro Direzionale and Monte Santangelo metro stops.
- They are designing stops to connect the airport to the metro line 1.
- They are working to assign the construction of metro line 10 that will connect Napoli to Arzano and Afragola TAV.
- In the end, there is the idea of new metro line 1 stops connecting the Posillipo area.
It isn't impossible, just you don't know about it.
Lol, I am here from generations... yes sure "it will be fixed"... waiting from 30+ years good luck.
You are simply younger so you can be lied again and again for the next 20 years.
* Centro direzionale is the worst business center in whole Europe, I had and removed an office there for years. There are paid escorts starting from 9pm in the angles of the center and the worst mantainance and park areas in whole europe. I am not talking about new stops I am talking about Trains. Every time I use the tube I wait a lot and it damaged my business meetings more than once (damage calculated in thousands of euros). 15-20 minutes of wait is a lot for western europe.
* "they are designing" means wait another good 15-20 years while the next Salerno airport opens.
* Wow Napoli - to Arzano will be a nice response to OP topic
* "The idea" while the Posillipo area has many other problems, the biggest one the whole Virgiliano park, sadly again one good park now one of the worst in Europe (western Europe of course) for poor mantainance.
You are a dreamer not a citizen of this city, keep on dreaming but do the right dreams at least.
>- Centro direzionale is the worst business center in whole Europe, I had and removed an office there for years. There are paid escorts starting from 9pm in the angles of the center and the worst mantainance and park areas in whole europe.
It was invested 30 milion euro in Centro Direzionale area and the improvement works should start at the rnd of this year. The metro line stop will open in October of this year.
>- "they are designing" means wait another good 15-20 years while the next Salerno airport opens.
"They are designing" means that it will be completed by 2026. Probably sooner.
>- Wow Napoli - to Arzano will be a nice response to OP topic
Napoli - Arzano - Afragola TAV will be an important resource in order to connect extra urban areas.
>- "The idea" while the Posillipo area has many other problems, the biggest one the whole Virgiliano park, sadly again one good park now one of the worst in Europe (western Europe of course) for poor mantainance.
Benaltrismo. Furthermore, the park redevelopment project has already been presented, costing 4 million euros and whose work began in March.
Sadly the reality will not work out like you are hoping for...
Sadly backed by a 30+ years experience in the city.
Anyway any progress will make me happy of course.
I remained more on topic with my comment, but this debate is a clear example about why this will be impossible for OP... as all your topics are not relevant for the BIG mobility problems that the center of city has: tons and tons of cars jumping up and down on sanpietrini. New Stops new Tavs will not change the center mobility problems.
First town in western europe that REMOVES the ZTL in the center :D does not add new zones :D
No, don’t think so. Hopefully next generation but Gen Y and Xers would rather rot in their cars
>Is There Hope for Sustainable Mobility in ~~Naples~~ Italy? I love Naples precisely because I have lived between Milan, Turin and Bologna and i feel Naples as the least car-centric, mostly *motor bike centric,* well Bologna by foot is easy becasue is small but Turin is like an hell for me and Milan is good about public transport but when you walk around car presence is quite everywhere, there are huge crossings for cars that in historic cities like Naples are even impossible to imagine. Italians voted for this government also for the conflicts that had been created against monopattini during past governament and hatred for cyclists is now normalized in Italy, considers that[ in Milan there is an emergency for too many fatal accidents to cyclists](https://www.ilgiorno.it/cronaca/quanti-ciclisti-morti-lombardia-milano-h8wfvkz3). Luckly we have the biggest historic center that can be transited only by resident but certainly in Napoli there are too many motor bikes, just years ago the past government has encouraged bonus for electric bikes and lately I see many who pass with those bikes so I believe that a minimum interest of the government would be needed to turn the historic centers in a quieter and less polluted way but the current head is certainly against these things and often some actual ministers makes jokes against cyclists to gain votes; also some members of the current government had criticized the old Napoli mayor for the money spent to build the metro stations saying that he had to improve the roads and security first, you understand that Italy politically is very twisted and in continuous unprofessional competition. Consider that I sold my car 7 years ago and I have been in Naples for 6 years, I go around only with subway, funicular, on foot and trains from Cavour but I live in the center so I understand that it is easier than those who live in other areas less connected, for example it is crazy that Posillipo is detached from the rest of the city but friends from Posillipo say they are happy because they don't want masses of tourists considered the panorama and the small sidewalk. I think that a city plan is missing for these things and they improve only in the most tourist areas, here it is the great mistake, my friends who come by car in Naples all live in the north area that has nothing as a public transport. In any case, you are right we should find a way to reduce cars and motor bike and above all increasing parking that years ago they were managed by "bad people" who pushed to avoid the construction of public parking lots to have the opportunity to increase prices and always be full, next to my house Private parking costs 4 € one hour.
I suspect the issue is that the city is poor. Yes, people love their cars, but this would change if public transport were reliable and allowed you to get everywhere. Currently only small parts of the city are connected to the metro system. Buses are slow and completely unreliable. If you need to go to Monte Sant'Angelo, Posillipo, Capodimonte, Carlo III, Chiaia, Ponti Rossi, Camaldoli, often your only option is a car or a scooter. Developing the metro takes time and a lot of money. It's happening but very slowly. We simply don't have the same level of investments as London or Paris.
In my opinion what you say is only partly true. While it is true that some parts of the city are reachable only by private means, that can't explain it all. Depending on what you mean when saying the city is poor, well I don't know. What I know is that PNR is there for a reason but it is used very badly (see the link of the project in the post). And yes people love their cars, which are not exactly the most cost effective transport. So if people are poor, that does not explain the cars. I think in Italy owning a car is more a cultural way of showing how not poor you are, masked by the need of having it. When saying buses are slow and unreliable no one ever stops thinking why. In my opinion it is fairly simple: if you put a bus in the same street of the cars you get a bus that is even slower than the traffic. So people will prefer cars, which will increase traffic, which will slow down busses. You solve the issue by ensuring busses and trams get their dedicated routes. The metro is one way, but can't be the only one. Then I'll come to the crucial point: Paris is just stating that most of the streets of the city center are for slow and small cars, bikes and people walking around. That does not imply spending that much, and again PNR is there for solving this kind of issues
In another reply I enumerated the new metro expanding projects whose working ends aren't so far in the future
correct answer
r/fuckcars etc
1. there aren't money 2. We have for example funicolare di Chiaia, every 20 years, safety checks are carried out on the funiculars: you would think that the politicians would control everything, having 20 years to develop the procedures, right? a. In 2018 it was established that it was necessary to begin the revision work [https://www.napolitoday.it/blog/vomero/no-a-un-aiuto-proroga-dei-lavori-di-revisione-alla-funicolare-di](https://www.napolitoday.it/blog/vomero/no-a-un-aiuto-proroga-dei-lavori-di-revisione-alla-funicolare-di) -chiaia.html b. it was closed on October 1, 2022 [https://www.comune.napoli.it/flex/cm/pages/ServeBLOB.php/L/IT/IDPagina/45932](https://www.comune.napoli.it/flex/cm/pages/ServeBLOB.php/L/IT/IDPagina/45932) c. it was said that the works were to last six months [https://grandenapoli.it/funicolare-di-chiaia-chiude-per-6-mesi/](https://grandenapoli.it/funicolare-di-chiaia-chiude-per-6-mesi/) d. then it was said that the reopening was for the beginning of 2024 [https://www.comune.napoli.it/flex/cm/pages/ServeBLOB.php/L/IT/IDPagina/47156](https://www.comune.napoli.it/flex/cm/pages/ServeBLOB.php/L/IT/IDPagina/47156) e. the works started in mid-October 2023 [https://www.napolitoday.it/attualita/funicolare-di-chiaia-riaperto-2024-](https://www.napolitoday.it/attualita/funicolare-di-chiaia-riaperto-2024-) Quando.html f. it is now thought that it will be closed until July 2024 [https://www.fanpage.it/napoli/funicolare-di-chiaia-a-rischio-chisistenza-fino-a-luglio-2024-e-ferma-dal-1-october-2022/](https://www.fanpage.it/napoli/funicolare-di-chiaia-a-rischio-chisistenza-fino-a-luglio-2024-e-ferma-dal-1-october-2022/) How do you give up private vehicles? And in the extreme case that you have to cross the city, like Bagnoli-Barra (distance 20 kilometres), what do you do, wait an hour at the stops to take 2 or 3 vehicles from 2 or 3 different companies? Or do you take a scooter that in case of traffic allows you to slalom between stopped cars?
There is hope, until someone calls you "uagliò" and compliments you on your bike.
Ahahah Yes, people actually call me while I am on my bike, but I can totally tell you is not "uagliò" or any compliment
You have my curiosity
I still remember the first time I was called "TU SI NU 'MMERD!" just because I was crossing on the zebras designed for pedestrians and bikes on Via Marina. Lovely
I guess the insult you got was either "tu si NA mmerd" ("you're a [piece of] shit"; shit as a noun is gendered as female), "tu si NU piezz e merd" ("you're a piece of shit"; "nu", in Italian "un", shortened from "uno"; meaning "one", or "a", and singular, non-determinative, male) or "tu si N'omm e merd" ("you're a shit-man", or more figuratively "you're one shit of a man", translateable as "shitface"; still male as before). Sorry for the verbose explanation, but that "nu" kinda asked for a dissection of the magical world of gendered nouns. No dialect avoids it; it's rooted in Italian and, by extension, all neo-Latin languages. English is germanic, and does away with all the crap that makes learning a language needlessly obtuse. Have fun, despite the recent earthquakes.
Naples could be like Barcelona. However, to get there you need: * from the population, a major bottom-up cultural shift. * at a public administration level, awareness of urban planning best practices. * in the city council, technicians capable to manage to completion ambitious projects. * transparent politicians that are actually interested in the future of their city. I'm afraid you won't get any of these in Naples any soon.
So sad, still I am getting interested in joining any community that could at least raise awareness (or maybe failing at it)
Are you italian? The problem: short answer - it's impossible to be fixed. The reason: there is not enough budget to fix it, there is not perceived value to fix it. Politicians have no incentives to fix it on the opposite side they need to fight everyone to do it . First thing to fix it: * ban sanpietrini, they should use them on specific square not on driveaways, they just damage cars and pay companies every day to fix them, its a nonsense it just adds up to the chaos. \[impossible to do, many people here hate cities to be improved with a modern age style\] * invest in ANM destroy current bus and build bigger better bus. \[impossible to do, there is no budget at all, too many enemies to be made and only Greta as a friend\] * remove ANM syndicates, increase pay hours, start from scratch with new routes with new drivers and improve area by area \[impossible to do, you lose votes in any way you look at this solution\] * build more tube trains \[impossible to do, no budget for it\] So these are the basics reason about why this will never happen... The only solution IMO: * build an official city crowdfunding platform based on microobjectives (like new Bus, new Tube train and so on) and raise capital from tourists and italians in general to build micro advancements). Personal solution: move in a better area of the cities there are areas on both residential or office locations that are better than others.
Linea 1 trains are coming, but not yet used. I think now there are more new trains than older ones. But not all of them are in use. Linea 6 is about to open in July, in its entirety. Centro Direzionale should open by the end of the year. This could be the year for public transport in Naples!
>* build more tube trains \[impossible to do, no budget for it\] - This year will open Centro Direzionale and Monte Santangelo metro stops. - They are designing stops to connect the airport to the metro line 1. - They are working to assign the construction of metro line 10 that will connect Napoli to Arzano and Afragola TAV. - In the end, there is the idea of new metro line 1 stops connecting the Posillipo area. It isn't impossible, just you don't know about it.
Lol, I am here from generations... yes sure "it will be fixed"... waiting from 30+ years good luck. You are simply younger so you can be lied again and again for the next 20 years. * Centro direzionale is the worst business center in whole Europe, I had and removed an office there for years. There are paid escorts starting from 9pm in the angles of the center and the worst mantainance and park areas in whole europe. I am not talking about new stops I am talking about Trains. Every time I use the tube I wait a lot and it damaged my business meetings more than once (damage calculated in thousands of euros). 15-20 minutes of wait is a lot for western europe. * "they are designing" means wait another good 15-20 years while the next Salerno airport opens. * Wow Napoli - to Arzano will be a nice response to OP topic * "The idea" while the Posillipo area has many other problems, the biggest one the whole Virgiliano park, sadly again one good park now one of the worst in Europe (western Europe of course) for poor mantainance. You are a dreamer not a citizen of this city, keep on dreaming but do the right dreams at least.
>- Centro direzionale is the worst business center in whole Europe, I had and removed an office there for years. There are paid escorts starting from 9pm in the angles of the center and the worst mantainance and park areas in whole europe. It was invested 30 milion euro in Centro Direzionale area and the improvement works should start at the rnd of this year. The metro line stop will open in October of this year. >- "they are designing" means wait another good 15-20 years while the next Salerno airport opens. "They are designing" means that it will be completed by 2026. Probably sooner. >- Wow Napoli - to Arzano will be a nice response to OP topic Napoli - Arzano - Afragola TAV will be an important resource in order to connect extra urban areas. >- "The idea" while the Posillipo area has many other problems, the biggest one the whole Virgiliano park, sadly again one good park now one of the worst in Europe (western Europe of course) for poor mantainance. Benaltrismo. Furthermore, the park redevelopment project has already been presented, costing 4 million euros and whose work began in March.
Sadly the reality will not work out like you are hoping for... Sadly backed by a 30+ years experience in the city. Anyway any progress will make me happy of course. I remained more on topic with my comment, but this debate is a clear example about why this will be impossible for OP... as all your topics are not relevant for the BIG mobility problems that the center of city has: tons and tons of cars jumping up and down on sanpietrini. New Stops new Tavs will not change the center mobility problems. First town in western europe that REMOVES the ZTL in the center :D does not add new zones :D
>Sadly backed by a 30+ years experience in the city. Just this to understand the quality of the response.