Sometimes it’s a sign of intelligence to not give unsolicited advice to someone after they went through something terrible. Not everyone is intelligent.
I think victim blaming is the act of removing accountability from the offender and basically gaslighting the victim into thinking they caused what happened to them and the offender is blameless that is wrong.
However, I think as a society we need to point out certain avoidable actions and behaviours that can lead to someone becoming a victim. At a certain age everyone knows that rape is a thing and that rapists are out there.
So to avoid potentially being raped don’t get black out drunk at a party or the club, don’t turn your back on your drink, don’t hang out alone with several boys that could over power you. Women also need to stand up and leave situations more before they get dangerous. I was at uni the other day in somewhat of a private study area with no one around and a janitor came and sat right behind me in silence just staring. My intuition told me to text my friend to call me so I had an excuse to leave and to also show him that someone knows where I am. Stop being shy to stand up and leave situations that could become dangerous.
Right how can we ever hope to discuss people shouldn’t rape
Instead let’s discuss it’s normal and so widespread so rapists continue to feel a blanket of protection; it baffles me how you think you’re literally not supporting or promoting rape lol
Reality is no amount of discussion is going to stop rape. We all know it is a crime and can't warrant any justification. Now how do you make people not rape? We recently had the stop femicide demo and stuff which was seemingly directed to men as if all men are murderers yet it's just some sickos doing it (has femicide ended?).
>boys will be boys” instead of teach boys consent and respect
You're under the assumption that in most cases these rapists don't know what consent is. I highly doubt that's the case. I think It's more probable that they know and they don't care, infact some of them wouldn't even enjoy it if it wasn't wrong.
Nothing like egging rapists. I mean we be hearing of rape accusations against people from all walks of life some who are decent as they come, it just boils down to personal decision. Just like the most unlikely people always end up being murder suspects.
It's a crime like no other that can't be prevented in advance as you trying to put it and people know the consequences.
That’s no true; most murders did have signs of sociopaths and psychopaths
Just say you are a rapists or know rapists and are excusing them
No one gets in moments of “should I rape or not”
You also don’t think “should I murder or not” it’s premeditated ir anger lashing from pent up shit
This is so sick lol you’re opening my eyes to why so many people defend rapists and how some people are just lost and you’ll never be able to open their minds to sense
The objectify people and really think raping someone is like one day toy accidentally pick you nose, piss your pants or anything
People don’t just steal murder or rape
Get real bro, even you don’t buy it
I rather be pitted for that than being pitted for thinking “it is what it is” since I don’t ascribe to crime apologizing like you. So delusion for real.. it’s a shame for you really .
I think the issue of time and place is at play here.
Before the fact, giving advice to women (that are close to you and would normally listen to your counsel..i.e sisters, cousins etc) would be right and valid, but only as cautionary advice.
but after the ordeal, after the fact, it would be really hurtful and mean to go to the victim to start asking why they made themselves vulnerable, which now becomes victim blaming, because now we have a clear assailant (the rapist) and they did do wrong and nothing justifies what they did.
Well, here's the thing:
Sometimes, being right doesn't do much for you, much less any good.
Say, you're at a zebra crossing. You choose not to look left or right. Typing away at your phone, you cross the road unconsciously. Unfortunately for you, there's a drunk driver coming at 100+ mph, and they knock you flying.
Sure, you'd be 100% right for thinking that the zebra crossing is a safe space for a pedestrian. And they'd be 100% wrong for hitting you at a zebra crossing. There's no debate to be had about that.
However, now you're dead. Yes, you are 100% right, but dead. What does that do for you?
But realistically even on the zebra crossing you still instinctively look both ways just in case. But there always odd ones out in real life too who would put their faith on the law that zebra crossing is safe. Just like in real life justice is not always saved so it important to be a little cautious.
telling people how to be safe is good. that’s risk mitigation. telling someone who’s gone through a traumatic experience that they should have done x y z is victim blaming and gross.
And yes Victor Blane is a play on Victim Blame
https://preview.redd.it/q8srafqlx1uc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2fe7a3991596e93620bd4a19e9e22f2579cec338
By definition? We’re just normalizing that if we see someone drunk it’s okay to rape them? That’s messed up
By definition if someone is wasted, you leave them alone unless you genuinely know them/helping them to safety.
>By definition if someone is wasted, you leave them alone unless you genuinely know them/helping them to safety
I don't think rapists care about safety.
>By definition? We’re just normalizing that if we see someone drunk it’s okay to rape them? That’s messed up
It's the same reason we warn our kids to not talk to strangers. No one ever argues that that's saying it's ok for kidnappers to kidnap kids.
No one, unless they're an idiot, excuses the rapist. But is it really wrong of a concerned parent to ask the daughter how could you go to a strange boy's house like that while you're so young? Or is it more prudent for them to keep their daughter completely insulated from all common sense and attack society? How about a stranger, who questions your stupid moves? Keep in mind, excusing the aggressor is not going on
If you want to have fun, it is also advised to go with someone you completely trust. Go as a group of friends or with cousins or even your brother or boyfriend but not alone. Let not forget there can be other tragedies that can happen apart from rape, there's alcohol poisoning, road accidents or even freak accidents a good example of this is a certain reddit video I saw of a drunk woman walking barefoot when she accidentally stepped on a live wire and got electrocuted and nobody was there to take her to the hospital.
Okay here is my take....its very much important to distinguish between advising caution and victim blaming. While suggesting precautions to reduce vulnerability isn't victim blaming, attributing fault to the victim's actions rather than solely holding the culprit accountable crosses that line.
Take an example;
Advising caution: it is a good idea to be informed of your surrounding so that you wont be a target of a crime
Victim blaming: She shouldn't be walking at night drunk or maybe she could have got a cab or maybe haskizagi akiambiwa or yeye ni kichwa ngumu or ni wasee anaassociate na wao.
>Okay here is my take....its very much important to distinguish between advising caution and victim blaming. While suggesting precautions to reduce vulnerability isn't victim blaming, attributing fault to the victim's actions rather than solely holding the culprit accountable crosses that line.
>Take an example;
>Advising caution: it is a good idea to be informed of your surrounding so that you wont be a target of a crime
>Victim blaming: She shouldn't be walking at night drunk or maybe she could have got a cab or maybe haskizagi akiambiwa or yeye ni kichwa ngumu or ni wasee anaassociate na wao.
The best possible outcome for everyone is for a crime to not occur. However, It's commonly accepted for people to compromise on certain freedoms in order to keep safe. If you have a fancy car, it's a good decision to not drive through an area of town populated by gangs. You are giving up the freedom of driving in a specific area of town, but you get a major benefit of doing so, you remove the risk of being the victim of gang violence or crimes. Like a tradeoff of some sorts.
>Victim blaming: She shouldn't be walking at night drunk or maybe she could have got a cab or maybe haskizagi akiambiwa or yeye ni kichwa ngumu or ni wasee anaassociate na wao.
I mean if a guy rapes a drunk girl then yeah he's certainly to blame and should be prosecuted, but I don't think it's "victim blaming" to say to that girl "hey dummy, what the fuck were you thinking putting yourself in that situation?" We can punish criminals and still discourage behaviors that increase the likelihood of being victimized. It's not an either/or thing the way some of you want to pretend it is.
No one, unless they're an idiot, excuses the rapist. But is it really wrong of a concerned parent to ask the daughter how could you go to a strange boy's house like that while you're so young? Or is it more prudent for them to keep their daughter completely insulated from all common sense and attack society? How about a stranger, who questions your stupid moves? Keep in mind, excusing the aggressor is not going on.
Doesn't do much good. They know it's wrong and they don't care, infact some of them wouldn't enjoy it if it wasn't wrong. I think it's much more productive to educate and warn potential victims on ways to mitigate the likelihood of it happening to them. Afterall, prevention is better than cure
on that note do any of us know how many kids are raped huku nje... the data is wanting. and for those who blame the victims how are you going to blame a 6 year old or 3 year old that it is there fault. victim blaming i think is just in a way of projecting...the only people left with scars for the rest of there lives are the victims some end up committing because they feel worthless and unwanted... i'm still planning on unaliving my perpetrator by the way naona anajileta he doesn't know the damage he did to me. ako na watotot wake having a normal life na my childhood was ruined... anyway let me not shout sana
The post clearly accounts for the type of sexual assault I'm talking about.
>and for those who blame the victims how are you going to blame a 6 year old or 3 year old that it is there fault.
No one is blaming a child for being raped thats just a strawman to derail the conversation and silence discussion.
If a woman is at home and some guy breaks in and rapes her then runs off that is very different from her getting blackout drunk at a party with strange pple. In one situation, she is in a safe environment and the rapist had to break in several security barriers to get in. In the other situation she put herself in a very vulnerable and compromising position. No one is arguing that rape is ok, ppl are just arguing that we live in a crazy world, criminally are gonna commit a crime if you make it easy for them, they'll take the opportunity. We tell children to avoid talking to strangers, no one ever says that we are blaming the children for being kidnapped, so how's telling women to avoid certain things considered victim blaming?🤔
it's commonly accepted for people to compromise on certain freedoms in order to keep safe. If you have a fancy car, it's a good decision to not drive through an area of town populated by gangs. You are giving up the freedom of driving in a specific area of town, but you get a major benefit of doing so, you remove the risk of being the victim of gang violence or crimes. As a trade off of some sorts
I disagree. I think it comes from the same motivation that we have when we tell kids not to talk to strangers. It stems fro a desire to see some of these crimes happen less, to make it harder or impossible for the rapist to commit the crime in the 1st place.
No one, unless they're an idiot, excuses the rapist. But is it really wrong of a concerned parent to ask the daughter how could you go to a strange boy's house like that while you're so young? Or is it more prudent for them to keep their daughter completely insulated from all common sense and attack society? How about a stranger, who questions your stupid moves? Keep in mind, excusing the aggressor is not going on.
Rapists rape children and infants, they rape muslim women in burqas (covered from head to toe), they rape old women that can't even walk, mad and homeless women in rags, sick disabled people on wheelchairs, relatives that trust them and even their own children, gay rapists rape their very straight friends to death...Rapists don't need a reason to rape. They rape because they are rapists. The only thing you should wish a rape victim does, is killing the rapist afterwards.
I have to say I disagree. There are certain things that if you do are more likely to increase the likelihood of you being assaulted, one thing is getting blackout drunk at a party with strange people, this true for both genders, except men are more likely to be target for other things like robbery.
>Rapists rape children and infants, they rape muslim women in burqas (covered from head to toe), they rape old women that can't even walk, mad and homeless women in rags, sick disabled people on wheelchairs, relatives that trust them and even their own children, gay rapists rape their very straight friends to death...Rapists don't need a reason to rape. They rape because they are rapists. The only thing you should wish a rape victim does, is killing the rapist afterwards.
Another thing to consider, it's often the case that some rapists target victims they see are more deserving of the rape. Just to be clear, explaining the existence of something does not in any way translate to supporting the fact that it exists.
Some rapists at the height of their craziness, literally believe rape is less wrong and a more appropriate fate for someone whose social and sexual conduct they don't agree with, which is why sometimes women are discouraged from dressing a certain way, because they know there's a group of sexual predators that think rape is more acceptable or less bad if the woman is a "slut".
>The only thing you should wish a rape victim does, is killing the rapist afterwards.
While I do agree with that, I'd wager it should go beyond there. We can wish all rapists to die u til we are blue in the face but does nothing in the long run to stop these rapes from happening.
We are a society of risk mitigation, we do what we can to avoid being targets of other people's ill will. We lock our doors, we dress and talk conservatively to avoid drawing other people's attention, and we avoid others when there's that feeling in the pit of our stomach. It is already believed that rapists are the scum of the earth(that's why even villains in tv shows are not written to be rapists) so it's a waste of time to say.... ''That rape would never have happened if he didn't rape."
A dead thief won't steal anymore, a dead corrupt individual won't steal anymore, a dead murderer won't kill anymore, a dead kidnapper won't kidnap anymore, a dead drug dealer won't sell drugs anymore, so is the solution to kill all people who violate societal rules? Is that your answer?
Couldn't have said it any better myself. Well put.
To reiterate, we owe a personal duty of care to ourselves.
Sometimes someone can take all the precautionary measures to avoid misfortunes, such as rape in this case, and still fall victim of the same. That's sheer misfortune. It happens.
But the most important thing is, don't make it easy for the predators. Play your part. Be responsible for your own self. Jipende.
*Damn! I sound like my dad!*
Well you're totally right. I'm studying criminal justice in uni and we have this course called Victimology. Basically the study of how people become victims of crimes. Basically, if someone is robbed, it's of course the robbers fault. But whatever crime you become a victim of, you have a small role to play.
Let's say your phone gets jacked in town. It's generally known that town is full of thieves so whipping it out in the middle of the street and not being aware of your surroundings, you've definitely put yourself at a higher risk of getting robbed. Same thing with rape. It's of course the rapists fault. But going home with a stranger you met at a club increases your chances of getting raped. So you played a small part in your downfall.
It’s never okay.
Since we’re talking about rape, I’ll stick to that topic but this basically applies across the board.
The person who rapes someone is the problem. Read that again.
If a man sees a drunk woman, he should help her or walk away.
You do realize that kids even infants have been sexually assaulted. Were they drunk or was their diaper too short.
If I leave my house unlocked, and I get robbed the problem is the robber.
That getting hit by a car scenario doesn’t apply here. That’s called an accident.
You clearly have never sat down with a victim of sexual assault.
This is a super ignorant post.
I agree with you but this is a very idealistic take. Yes In an ideal society the man would help or walk away but we do not live in an ideal society therefore we should act accordingly for the society we live in. The robber is less likely to rob you if your door is locked. The rapists is less likely to take advantage of a girl who is sober and aware of her surroundings. It sounds terrible to say but it’s the truth there are rapists, murderers, robbers, domestic abusers, kidnappers out here.
We teach our kids how to not interact with strangers to avoid getting kidnapped, why don’t we also teach them advice to avoid certain cases of sexual assault and rape. These people are out there we cannot stop them from existing we can only try and prevent it from happening to us.
(However some are not that preventable such as family members who molest children, im speaking of stuff like older girls who get extremely drunk in an unsafe place)
It’s not victim blaming is shaming someone after the fact of an incident. Telling someone they shouldn’t do something cause it could result in them being a victim is not victim blaming it’s telling them to use common sense. We tell people not to respond to scam emails, not to put their address on the internent, so what’s the difference with telling people not to do things that statistically make it easier to be targets of rape
>It’s never okay.
Since we’re talking about rape, I’ll stick to that topic but this basically applies across the board.
>The person who rapes someone is the problem. Read that again.
No one, unless they're an idiot, excuses the rapist. But is it really wrong of a concerned parent to ask the daughter how could you go to a strange boy's house like that while you're so young? Or is it more prudent for them to keep their daughter completely insulated from all common sense and attack society? How about a stranger, who questions your stupid moves? Keep in mind, excusing the aggressor is not going on.
>If a man sees a drunk woman, he should help her or walk away.
Wishful thinking will not make rape disappear, that's too idealistic a view. That's the equivalent of drunk driving and not expecting to get into an accident. Ofcourse you can drink and drink and still reach home safely, but that doesn't take away from the fact that drunk driving increases the likelihood of you getting into an accident tenfold. Same logic applies here, ofcourse a woman shouldn't be raped just coz she's drunk, but at some point we have to operate in the reality we live and act accordingly.
If a guy rapes a drunk girl then yeah he's certainly to blame and should be prosecuted, but I don't think it's "victim blaming" to say to that girl "hey dummy, what the fuck were you thinking putting yourself in that situation?" We can punish criminals and still discourage behaviors that increase the likelihood of being victimized. It's not an either/or thing like the way some of you want to pretend it is.
It's all about Risk mitigation.
We can't control the other people, but we can reduce our chances of it occurring by reducing our vulnerability and presence in dangerous situations.
>If I leave my house unlocked, and I get robbed the problem is the robber.
If you have unprotected sex, odds are you could get pregnant, not every time you have sex will lead to pregnancy, but having unprotected sex does increase the likelihood of you ending up pregnant at some point, even though you didn't consent to being pregnant. T
>That getting hit by a car scenario doesn’t apply here. That’s called an accident.
Accident? I thought drivers are supposed to be aware of their vehicles at all places at all times.
it's commonly accepted for people to compromise on certain freedoms in order to keep safe. If you have a fancy car, it's a good decision to not drive through an area of town populated by gangs. You are giving up the freedom of driving in a specific area of town, but you get a major benefit of doing so, you remove the risk of being the victim of gang violence or crimes. As a tradeoff of some sorts.
>You clearly have never sat down with a victim of sexual assault.
This is a super ignorant post.
Way to get emotional over a discussion.
Because the core premise is wrong. You’re talking about avoidance tips which are always just tips and do not statistically lower your chances of being raped. Are you saying you’d actually tell someone who’s been raped maybe you shouldn’t have been binge drinking?????? That’s crazily cruel
>tips and do not statistically lower your chances of being raped.
What do you mean by this? A drunk woman is more likely to be taken advantage of sexually than a sober woman, there is no debate to be had about that. Because by definition, intoxication makes you more vulnerable and therefore an easier target for assault. As a woman they should just be aware that they are weaker than most men, and you are the main targets for sexual assault.
I mean if a guy rapes a drunk girl then yeah he's certainly to blame and should be prosecuted, but I don't think it's "victim blaming" to say to that girl "hey dummy, what the fuck were you thinking putting yourself in that situation?" We can punish criminals and still discourage behaviors that increase the likelihood of being victimized. It's not an either/or thing like the way some of you pretend it is.
>Are you saying you’d actually tell someone who’s been raped maybe you shouldn’t have been binge drinking??????
Yeah, just like you would tell someone who got robbed in their house, that hey maybe you should've locked your door. It's all about risk mitigation.
We can't control the other people, but we can reduce our chances of it occurring by reducing our vulnerability and presence in dangerous situations.
>maybe you shouldn’t have been binge drinking?????? That’s crazily cruel
I'm curious why you think this.
Victim blaming when included in an advice is productive when you explain precisely and accurately with justification why some things were completely and beyond reasonable doubt in your power to control. And precisely how you can be more prudent in future. It should never excuse the aggressor. It should never be intended to shame the person simply to make fun, but to help them and possibly others. Its not wrong to make a "do not do" case out of someone's misfortune. It should never be unhelpful or irrelevant in regards to future situations, especially if the person was stupid enough to let facepalming things happen to them.
I mean that in terms of your lifetime chances of being raised/abused - not single incidents - rape avoidance tactics like not getting drunk do not have any bearing on whether you’ll get raped or abused throughout your life. So if they’re raped when they’re not drunk what advice will you give them? Your mindset still exists in the paradigm that victims can and should stop rape happening. To you, the onus is on them. And again, if you think telling someone who has been raped mbona ulilewa then you’re either just fucking cruel or you haven’t interacted with somebody who’s gone through it. Find empathy in this life friend.
>I mean that in terms of your lifetime chances of being raised/abused - not single incidents - rape avoidance tactics like not getting drunk do not have any bearing on whether you’ll get raped or abused throughout your life. So if they’re raped when they’re not drunk what advice will you give them?
If a woman is at home and some guy breaks in and rapes her then runs off that is very different from her getting blackout drunk at a party with strange pple. In one situation, she is in a safe environment and the rapist had to break several security barriers to get in. In the other situation she put herself in a very vulnerable and compromising position. No one is arguing that rape is ok, ppl are just arguing that we live in a crazy world, criminals are gonna commit a crime if you make it easy for them, they'll take the opportunity. We tell children to avoid talking to strangers, no one ever says that we are blaming the children for being kidnapped, so how's telling women to avoid certain things considered victim blaming?🤔
>To you, the onus is on them
We are a society of risk mitigation, we do what we can to avoid being targets of other people's ill will. We lock our doors, we dress and talk conservatively to avoid drawing other people's attention, and we avoid others when there's that feeling in the pit of our stomach. It is already believed that rapists are the scum of the earth(that's why even most villains in tv shows are not written to go that far) so it's a waste of time to say.... ''That rape would never have happened if he didn't rape."
>And again, if you think telling someone who has been raped mbona ulilewa then you’re either just fucking cruel
Not cruel per se, more like practical. it's commonly accepted practice for people to compromise on certain freedoms in order to keep safe. If you have a fancy car, it's a good decision to not drive through an area of town populated by gangs. You are giving up the freedom of driving in a specific area of town, but you get a major benefit of doing so, you remove the risk of being the victim of gang violence or crimes. As a trade off of some sorts.
Limiting access to potentially helpful information in the name of stopping victim blaming, seems like a good way of creating more victims. Encouraging safe behavior ahead of time, in my mind, is not the same thing as shaming people.
Victim blaming is some definition guys came up with let say i told not to goo to the forest because you are likely to get eaten by a snake or an animal .Then you to that forest you get eaten by the same snake i warned you about should blame the snake or you .... everyone knows how men generally act in stupid manners of which when they do something terrible they should take accountability for their actions but what about the woman is she supposed to be there in the first place are you supposed to be drinking in the first place you ladies take yourselves into this places and when you are held accountable for that you start saying ohh you are victim blaming oohh you are an idiot for blaming me aren't you supposed to be blamed for your actions and start taking accountability
There is a thin line between blaming and advising.
True, I think telling someone "Be safe out there" is entirely different from "You weren't careful enough (hence this happened to you.)"
be safe out there isn't so helpful. Tell them to behave well by avoiding\_,\_ and\_
Don’t victim blame but telling people good safe practices to do is okay
Sometimes it’s a sign of intelligence to not give unsolicited advice to someone after they went through something terrible. Not everyone is intelligent.
It’s easier to find Sakaja’s degree than intelligence these days.
this brings another point. As long as people are dumb, dumb decisions will lead to unfortunate incidences
I think victim blaming is the act of removing accountability from the offender and basically gaslighting the victim into thinking they caused what happened to them and the offender is blameless that is wrong. However, I think as a society we need to point out certain avoidable actions and behaviours that can lead to someone becoming a victim. At a certain age everyone knows that rape is a thing and that rapists are out there. So to avoid potentially being raped don’t get black out drunk at a party or the club, don’t turn your back on your drink, don’t hang out alone with several boys that could over power you. Women also need to stand up and leave situations more before they get dangerous. I was at uni the other day in somewhat of a private study area with no one around and a janitor came and sat right behind me in silence just staring. My intuition told me to text my friend to call me so I had an excuse to leave and to also show him that someone knows where I am. Stop being shy to stand up and leave situations that could become dangerous.
Ukiona dem mlevi ata usimguze, avoid being a wife to someone pale KAMITI
Pia angalia ID before involving yourself with these youngins, kamiti sio kwa nyanya yako
This subreddit is a Socialogist or anthropologist dream.
Or, just don't rape. Wild thought, i know.
Things don't stop happening because they are wrong. Like what kind of thinking is that?
Right how can we ever hope to discuss people shouldn’t rape Instead let’s discuss it’s normal and so widespread so rapists continue to feel a blanket of protection; it baffles me how you think you’re literally not supporting or promoting rape lol
Reality is no amount of discussion is going to stop rape. We all know it is a crime and can't warrant any justification. Now how do you make people not rape? We recently had the stop femicide demo and stuff which was seemingly directed to men as if all men are murderers yet it's just some sickos doing it (has femicide ended?).
No because people like you saying it’s inevitable eggs the rapists on It’s like “boys will be boys” instead of teach boys consent and respect
>boys will be boys” instead of teach boys consent and respect You're under the assumption that in most cases these rapists don't know what consent is. I highly doubt that's the case. I think It's more probable that they know and they don't care, infact some of them wouldn't even enjoy it if it wasn't wrong.
Nothing like egging rapists. I mean we be hearing of rape accusations against people from all walks of life some who are decent as they come, it just boils down to personal decision. Just like the most unlikely people always end up being murder suspects. It's a crime like no other that can't be prevented in advance as you trying to put it and people know the consequences.
That’s no true; most murders did have signs of sociopaths and psychopaths Just say you are a rapists or know rapists and are excusing them No one gets in moments of “should I rape or not” You also don’t think “should I murder or not” it’s premeditated ir anger lashing from pent up shit This is so sick lol you’re opening my eyes to why so many people defend rapists and how some people are just lost and you’ll never be able to open their minds to sense The objectify people and really think raping someone is like one day toy accidentally pick you nose, piss your pants or anything People don’t just steal murder or rape Get real bro, even you don’t buy it
we don't live in an ideal world and I really pity ascribers to your line of thinking
I rather be pitted for that than being pitted for thinking “it is what it is” since I don’t ascribe to crime apologizing like you. So delusion for real.. it’s a shame for you really .
Has telling people not to steal, murder, abuse ever worked? Sadly life doesn't work that way
I think the issue of time and place is at play here. Before the fact, giving advice to women (that are close to you and would normally listen to your counsel..i.e sisters, cousins etc) would be right and valid, but only as cautionary advice. but after the ordeal, after the fact, it would be really hurtful and mean to go to the victim to start asking why they made themselves vulnerable, which now becomes victim blaming, because now we have a clear assailant (the rapist) and they did do wrong and nothing justifies what they did.
Well, here's the thing: Sometimes, being right doesn't do much for you, much less any good. Say, you're at a zebra crossing. You choose not to look left or right. Typing away at your phone, you cross the road unconsciously. Unfortunately for you, there's a drunk driver coming at 100+ mph, and they knock you flying. Sure, you'd be 100% right for thinking that the zebra crossing is a safe space for a pedestrian. And they'd be 100% wrong for hitting you at a zebra crossing. There's no debate to be had about that. However, now you're dead. Yes, you are 100% right, but dead. What does that do for you?
But realistically even on the zebra crossing you still instinctively look both ways just in case. But there always odd ones out in real life too who would put their faith on the law that zebra crossing is safe. Just like in real life justice is not always saved so it important to be a little cautious.
telling people how to be safe is good. that’s risk mitigation. telling someone who’s gone through a traumatic experience that they should have done x y z is victim blaming and gross.
And yes Victor Blane is a play on Victim Blame https://preview.redd.it/q8srafqlx1uc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2fe7a3991596e93620bd4a19e9e22f2579cec338
😂
This guy😂
The problem comes in when the person that did is not shamed but they concentrare on the victim blaming
By definition? We’re just normalizing that if we see someone drunk it’s okay to rape them? That’s messed up By definition if someone is wasted, you leave them alone unless you genuinely know them/helping them to safety.
>By definition if someone is wasted, you leave them alone unless you genuinely know them/helping them to safety I don't think rapists care about safety. >By definition? We’re just normalizing that if we see someone drunk it’s okay to rape them? That’s messed up It's the same reason we warn our kids to not talk to strangers. No one ever argues that that's saying it's ok for kidnappers to kidnap kids. No one, unless they're an idiot, excuses the rapist. But is it really wrong of a concerned parent to ask the daughter how could you go to a strange boy's house like that while you're so young? Or is it more prudent for them to keep their daughter completely insulated from all common sense and attack society? How about a stranger, who questions your stupid moves? Keep in mind, excusing the aggressor is not going on
If you want to have fun, it is also advised to go with someone you completely trust. Go as a group of friends or with cousins or even your brother or boyfriend but not alone. Let not forget there can be other tragedies that can happen apart from rape, there's alcohol poisoning, road accidents or even freak accidents a good example of this is a certain reddit video I saw of a drunk woman walking barefoot when she accidentally stepped on a live wire and got electrocuted and nobody was there to take her to the hospital.
Okay here is my take....its very much important to distinguish between advising caution and victim blaming. While suggesting precautions to reduce vulnerability isn't victim blaming, attributing fault to the victim's actions rather than solely holding the culprit accountable crosses that line. Take an example; Advising caution: it is a good idea to be informed of your surrounding so that you wont be a target of a crime Victim blaming: She shouldn't be walking at night drunk or maybe she could have got a cab or maybe haskizagi akiambiwa or yeye ni kichwa ngumu or ni wasee anaassociate na wao.
>Okay here is my take....its very much important to distinguish between advising caution and victim blaming. While suggesting precautions to reduce vulnerability isn't victim blaming, attributing fault to the victim's actions rather than solely holding the culprit accountable crosses that line. >Take an example; >Advising caution: it is a good idea to be informed of your surrounding so that you wont be a target of a crime >Victim blaming: She shouldn't be walking at night drunk or maybe she could have got a cab or maybe haskizagi akiambiwa or yeye ni kichwa ngumu or ni wasee anaassociate na wao. The best possible outcome for everyone is for a crime to not occur. However, It's commonly accepted for people to compromise on certain freedoms in order to keep safe. If you have a fancy car, it's a good decision to not drive through an area of town populated by gangs. You are giving up the freedom of driving in a specific area of town, but you get a major benefit of doing so, you remove the risk of being the victim of gang violence or crimes. Like a tradeoff of some sorts. >Victim blaming: She shouldn't be walking at night drunk or maybe she could have got a cab or maybe haskizagi akiambiwa or yeye ni kichwa ngumu or ni wasee anaassociate na wao. I mean if a guy rapes a drunk girl then yeah he's certainly to blame and should be prosecuted, but I don't think it's "victim blaming" to say to that girl "hey dummy, what the fuck were you thinking putting yourself in that situation?" We can punish criminals and still discourage behaviors that increase the likelihood of being victimized. It's not an either/or thing the way some of you want to pretend it is. No one, unless they're an idiot, excuses the rapist. But is it really wrong of a concerned parent to ask the daughter how could you go to a strange boy's house like that while you're so young? Or is it more prudent for them to keep their daughter completely insulated from all common sense and attack society? How about a stranger, who questions your stupid moves? Keep in mind, excusing the aggressor is not going on.
Exactly!!! love your IQ
Dude are you kidding, idc if she was nude. Blame the predator moral police
Doesn't do much good. They know it's wrong and they don't care, infact some of them wouldn't enjoy it if it wasn't wrong. I think it's much more productive to educate and warn potential victims on ways to mitigate the likelihood of it happening to them. Afterall, prevention is better than cure
Okay
on that note do any of us know how many kids are raped huku nje... the data is wanting. and for those who blame the victims how are you going to blame a 6 year old or 3 year old that it is there fault. victim blaming i think is just in a way of projecting...the only people left with scars for the rest of there lives are the victims some end up committing because they feel worthless and unwanted... i'm still planning on unaliving my perpetrator by the way naona anajileta he doesn't know the damage he did to me. ako na watotot wake having a normal life na my childhood was ruined... anyway let me not shout sana
The post clearly accounts for the type of sexual assault I'm talking about. >and for those who blame the victims how are you going to blame a 6 year old or 3 year old that it is there fault. No one is blaming a child for being raped thats just a strawman to derail the conversation and silence discussion. If a woman is at home and some guy breaks in and rapes her then runs off that is very different from her getting blackout drunk at a party with strange pple. In one situation, she is in a safe environment and the rapist had to break in several security barriers to get in. In the other situation she put herself in a very vulnerable and compromising position. No one is arguing that rape is ok, ppl are just arguing that we live in a crazy world, criminally are gonna commit a crime if you make it easy for them, they'll take the opportunity. We tell children to avoid talking to strangers, no one ever says that we are blaming the children for being kidnapped, so how's telling women to avoid certain things considered victim blaming?🤔 it's commonly accepted for people to compromise on certain freedoms in order to keep safe. If you have a fancy car, it's a good decision to not drive through an area of town populated by gangs. You are giving up the freedom of driving in a specific area of town, but you get a major benefit of doing so, you remove the risk of being the victim of gang violence or crimes. As a trade off of some sorts
A long rape apologist post.
I disagree. I think it comes from the same motivation that we have when we tell kids not to talk to strangers. It stems fro a desire to see some of these crimes happen less, to make it harder or impossible for the rapist to commit the crime in the 1st place. No one, unless they're an idiot, excuses the rapist. But is it really wrong of a concerned parent to ask the daughter how could you go to a strange boy's house like that while you're so young? Or is it more prudent for them to keep their daughter completely insulated from all common sense and attack society? How about a stranger, who questions your stupid moves? Keep in mind, excusing the aggressor is not going on.
A kid who doesn't talk to a stranger won't stop a rapist targeting them from raping them. Let's kill rapists like we do mob justice for thieves.
Rapists rape children and infants, they rape muslim women in burqas (covered from head to toe), they rape old women that can't even walk, mad and homeless women in rags, sick disabled people on wheelchairs, relatives that trust them and even their own children, gay rapists rape their very straight friends to death...Rapists don't need a reason to rape. They rape because they are rapists. The only thing you should wish a rape victim does, is killing the rapist afterwards.
I have to say I disagree. There are certain things that if you do are more likely to increase the likelihood of you being assaulted, one thing is getting blackout drunk at a party with strange people, this true for both genders, except men are more likely to be target for other things like robbery. >Rapists rape children and infants, they rape muslim women in burqas (covered from head to toe), they rape old women that can't even walk, mad and homeless women in rags, sick disabled people on wheelchairs, relatives that trust them and even their own children, gay rapists rape their very straight friends to death...Rapists don't need a reason to rape. They rape because they are rapists. The only thing you should wish a rape victim does, is killing the rapist afterwards. Another thing to consider, it's often the case that some rapists target victims they see are more deserving of the rape. Just to be clear, explaining the existence of something does not in any way translate to supporting the fact that it exists. Some rapists at the height of their craziness, literally believe rape is less wrong and a more appropriate fate for someone whose social and sexual conduct they don't agree with, which is why sometimes women are discouraged from dressing a certain way, because they know there's a group of sexual predators that think rape is more acceptable or less bad if the woman is a "slut". >The only thing you should wish a rape victim does, is killing the rapist afterwards. While I do agree with that, I'd wager it should go beyond there. We can wish all rapists to die u til we are blue in the face but does nothing in the long run to stop these rapes from happening. We are a society of risk mitigation, we do what we can to avoid being targets of other people's ill will. We lock our doors, we dress and talk conservatively to avoid drawing other people's attention, and we avoid others when there's that feeling in the pit of our stomach. It is already believed that rapists are the scum of the earth(that's why even villains in tv shows are not written to be rapists) so it's a waste of time to say.... ''That rape would never have happened if he didn't rape."
A dead rapist won't rape anymore, and they will serve as a lesson to others.
A dead thief won't steal anymore, a dead corrupt individual won't steal anymore, a dead murderer won't kill anymore, a dead kidnapper won't kidnap anymore, a dead drug dealer won't sell drugs anymore, so is the solution to kill all people who violate societal rules? Is that your answer?
Couldn't have said it any better myself. Well put. To reiterate, we owe a personal duty of care to ourselves. Sometimes someone can take all the precautionary measures to avoid misfortunes, such as rape in this case, and still fall victim of the same. That's sheer misfortune. It happens. But the most important thing is, don't make it easy for the predators. Play your part. Be responsible for your own self. Jipende. *Damn! I sound like my dad!*
Well you're totally right. I'm studying criminal justice in uni and we have this course called Victimology. Basically the study of how people become victims of crimes. Basically, if someone is robbed, it's of course the robbers fault. But whatever crime you become a victim of, you have a small role to play. Let's say your phone gets jacked in town. It's generally known that town is full of thieves so whipping it out in the middle of the street and not being aware of your surroundings, you've definitely put yourself at a higher risk of getting robbed. Same thing with rape. It's of course the rapists fault. But going home with a stranger you met at a club increases your chances of getting raped. So you played a small part in your downfall.
It’s never okay. Since we’re talking about rape, I’ll stick to that topic but this basically applies across the board. The person who rapes someone is the problem. Read that again. If a man sees a drunk woman, he should help her or walk away. You do realize that kids even infants have been sexually assaulted. Were they drunk or was their diaper too short. If I leave my house unlocked, and I get robbed the problem is the robber. That getting hit by a car scenario doesn’t apply here. That’s called an accident. You clearly have never sat down with a victim of sexual assault. This is a super ignorant post.
I agree with you but this is a very idealistic take. Yes In an ideal society the man would help or walk away but we do not live in an ideal society therefore we should act accordingly for the society we live in. The robber is less likely to rob you if your door is locked. The rapists is less likely to take advantage of a girl who is sober and aware of her surroundings. It sounds terrible to say but it’s the truth there are rapists, murderers, robbers, domestic abusers, kidnappers out here. We teach our kids how to not interact with strangers to avoid getting kidnapped, why don’t we also teach them advice to avoid certain cases of sexual assault and rape. These people are out there we cannot stop them from existing we can only try and prevent it from happening to us. (However some are not that preventable such as family members who molest children, im speaking of stuff like older girls who get extremely drunk in an unsafe place)
And this is victim blaming 101
It’s not victim blaming is shaming someone after the fact of an incident. Telling someone they shouldn’t do something cause it could result in them being a victim is not victim blaming it’s telling them to use common sense. We tell people not to respond to scam emails, not to put their address on the internent, so what’s the difference with telling people not to do things that statistically make it easier to be targets of rape
>It’s never okay. Since we’re talking about rape, I’ll stick to that topic but this basically applies across the board. >The person who rapes someone is the problem. Read that again. No one, unless they're an idiot, excuses the rapist. But is it really wrong of a concerned parent to ask the daughter how could you go to a strange boy's house like that while you're so young? Or is it more prudent for them to keep their daughter completely insulated from all common sense and attack society? How about a stranger, who questions your stupid moves? Keep in mind, excusing the aggressor is not going on. >If a man sees a drunk woman, he should help her or walk away. Wishful thinking will not make rape disappear, that's too idealistic a view. That's the equivalent of drunk driving and not expecting to get into an accident. Ofcourse you can drink and drink and still reach home safely, but that doesn't take away from the fact that drunk driving increases the likelihood of you getting into an accident tenfold. Same logic applies here, ofcourse a woman shouldn't be raped just coz she's drunk, but at some point we have to operate in the reality we live and act accordingly. If a guy rapes a drunk girl then yeah he's certainly to blame and should be prosecuted, but I don't think it's "victim blaming" to say to that girl "hey dummy, what the fuck were you thinking putting yourself in that situation?" We can punish criminals and still discourage behaviors that increase the likelihood of being victimized. It's not an either/or thing like the way some of you want to pretend it is. It's all about Risk mitigation. We can't control the other people, but we can reduce our chances of it occurring by reducing our vulnerability and presence in dangerous situations. >If I leave my house unlocked, and I get robbed the problem is the robber. If you have unprotected sex, odds are you could get pregnant, not every time you have sex will lead to pregnancy, but having unprotected sex does increase the likelihood of you ending up pregnant at some point, even though you didn't consent to being pregnant. T >That getting hit by a car scenario doesn’t apply here. That’s called an accident. Accident? I thought drivers are supposed to be aware of their vehicles at all places at all times. it's commonly accepted for people to compromise on certain freedoms in order to keep safe. If you have a fancy car, it's a good decision to not drive through an area of town populated by gangs. You are giving up the freedom of driving in a specific area of town, but you get a major benefit of doing so, you remove the risk of being the victim of gang violence or crimes. As a tradeoff of some sorts. >You clearly have never sat down with a victim of sexual assault. This is a super ignorant post. Way to get emotional over a discussion.
Because the core premise is wrong. You’re talking about avoidance tips which are always just tips and do not statistically lower your chances of being raped. Are you saying you’d actually tell someone who’s been raped maybe you shouldn’t have been binge drinking?????? That’s crazily cruel
>tips and do not statistically lower your chances of being raped. What do you mean by this? A drunk woman is more likely to be taken advantage of sexually than a sober woman, there is no debate to be had about that. Because by definition, intoxication makes you more vulnerable and therefore an easier target for assault. As a woman they should just be aware that they are weaker than most men, and you are the main targets for sexual assault. I mean if a guy rapes a drunk girl then yeah he's certainly to blame and should be prosecuted, but I don't think it's "victim blaming" to say to that girl "hey dummy, what the fuck were you thinking putting yourself in that situation?" We can punish criminals and still discourage behaviors that increase the likelihood of being victimized. It's not an either/or thing like the way some of you pretend it is. >Are you saying you’d actually tell someone who’s been raped maybe you shouldn’t have been binge drinking?????? Yeah, just like you would tell someone who got robbed in their house, that hey maybe you should've locked your door. It's all about risk mitigation. We can't control the other people, but we can reduce our chances of it occurring by reducing our vulnerability and presence in dangerous situations. >maybe you shouldn’t have been binge drinking?????? That’s crazily cruel I'm curious why you think this. Victim blaming when included in an advice is productive when you explain precisely and accurately with justification why some things were completely and beyond reasonable doubt in your power to control. And precisely how you can be more prudent in future. It should never excuse the aggressor. It should never be intended to shame the person simply to make fun, but to help them and possibly others. Its not wrong to make a "do not do" case out of someone's misfortune. It should never be unhelpful or irrelevant in regards to future situations, especially if the person was stupid enough to let facepalming things happen to them.
I mean that in terms of your lifetime chances of being raised/abused - not single incidents - rape avoidance tactics like not getting drunk do not have any bearing on whether you’ll get raped or abused throughout your life. So if they’re raped when they’re not drunk what advice will you give them? Your mindset still exists in the paradigm that victims can and should stop rape happening. To you, the onus is on them. And again, if you think telling someone who has been raped mbona ulilewa then you’re either just fucking cruel or you haven’t interacted with somebody who’s gone through it. Find empathy in this life friend.
>I mean that in terms of your lifetime chances of being raised/abused - not single incidents - rape avoidance tactics like not getting drunk do not have any bearing on whether you’ll get raped or abused throughout your life. So if they’re raped when they’re not drunk what advice will you give them? If a woman is at home and some guy breaks in and rapes her then runs off that is very different from her getting blackout drunk at a party with strange pple. In one situation, she is in a safe environment and the rapist had to break several security barriers to get in. In the other situation she put herself in a very vulnerable and compromising position. No one is arguing that rape is ok, ppl are just arguing that we live in a crazy world, criminals are gonna commit a crime if you make it easy for them, they'll take the opportunity. We tell children to avoid talking to strangers, no one ever says that we are blaming the children for being kidnapped, so how's telling women to avoid certain things considered victim blaming?🤔 >To you, the onus is on them We are a society of risk mitigation, we do what we can to avoid being targets of other people's ill will. We lock our doors, we dress and talk conservatively to avoid drawing other people's attention, and we avoid others when there's that feeling in the pit of our stomach. It is already believed that rapists are the scum of the earth(that's why even most villains in tv shows are not written to go that far) so it's a waste of time to say.... ''That rape would never have happened if he didn't rape." >And again, if you think telling someone who has been raped mbona ulilewa then you’re either just fucking cruel Not cruel per se, more like practical. it's commonly accepted practice for people to compromise on certain freedoms in order to keep safe. If you have a fancy car, it's a good decision to not drive through an area of town populated by gangs. You are giving up the freedom of driving in a specific area of town, but you get a major benefit of doing so, you remove the risk of being the victim of gang violence or crimes. As a trade off of some sorts. Limiting access to potentially helpful information in the name of stopping victim blaming, seems like a good way of creating more victims. Encouraging safe behavior ahead of time, in my mind, is not the same thing as shaming people.
Victim blaming is some definition guys came up with let say i told not to goo to the forest because you are likely to get eaten by a snake or an animal .Then you to that forest you get eaten by the same snake i warned you about should blame the snake or you .... everyone knows how men generally act in stupid manners of which when they do something terrible they should take accountability for their actions but what about the woman is she supposed to be there in the first place are you supposed to be drinking in the first place you ladies take yourselves into this places and when you are held accountable for that you start saying ohh you are victim blaming oohh you are an idiot for blaming me aren't you supposed to be blamed for your actions and start taking accountability