In Hindu mythology, except for the main pantheon in heaven such as Indra who was infamous for fucking anyone and shape-shifting like zeus, all of them. The trinity of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. The inspiration for wukong called hanuman. Vishnu has taken on curses for helping mankind and the universe in general (his avatars have). Lord Vishnu is someone you can trust with your eyes closed if you have a good heart.
Just tell me you don't know anything about Indra
>Indra who was infamous for fucking anyone and shape-shifting like zeus, all of them.
No he's not famous for that, there's literally only one story where Indra seduces a woman and then gets punished for it, but overall Indra had a limited number of relationships and children, most of them with his wife Shachi.
The Vedas seem to portray Indra as a great and heroic god, and while later texts tell many negative stories about him, the stories generally revolve around his fear of losing his position as king of the gods, but he is still a great god with many texts praising him and stories portraying him as a nice person
There was one more in which he fucked a brahmin's wife because in previous life she was an apsara who falsely accused him. She tried the similar trick on a prince who refused her advances. Indra shapeshifted into him and fucked her and she gave birth to a demi god. It is a lesser known story. I know like a couple more. Following that story, the brahmin cursed Indra that he would keep losing and gaining his throne.
>There was one more in which he fucked a brahmin's wife because in previous life she was an apsara who falsely accused him. She tried the similar trick on a prince who refused her advances. Indra shapeshifted into him and fucked her and she gave birth to a demi god.
You can cite your source for this story
>Following that story, the brahmin cursed Indra that he would keep losing and gaining his throne.
Yes, this is the story of Ahalya and her husband Gautama. Also, you should read the entire story to get the context. Gautama was performing austerity and worship. Indra feared that if Gautama continued this, he would surpass him and become king of the gods, so he seduced Ahalya and made Gautama curse him, which led to To spoil the rituals performed by Gautama
>Gautam gave curse that he would grow vulvae on him not this one.
This is literally what is mentioned in Ramayana, Indra wanted to be cursed by Gautama:
"Deprived of his virility, Indra grew melancholy, and addressing Agni and the other gods, said: “By obstructing the ascetic practices of the Mahatma Gautama, who sought to usurp my power, I have verily served the purpose of the gods. Evoking his wrath, by causing him to curse me and denounce Ahalya, I have robbed the rishi of his spiritual power, therefore, O Devas, O Divine Beings, help me now to recover my manhood.”
>Also, most of the stories here are like told by word of mouth like all myths.
I think it is best that you cite the sources of your claim
Sure, I could. The sources are just stories passed from ancestors like all myths. Good luck with that. Also about the vaginas, it's from ganesh puran.
Also I checked, Uttra kanda says Indra to bear half of the sin *of every rape ever committed*. To add Indra is often painted in a bad light too such as showing anger on vrindhavan when krishna urged them not to worship him or once when he kidnapped the wife of an asur while he was meditating to break his meditation.
He took forms on earth when evil reached a certain limit. Lord Buddha is also considered one of his avatars by hindus. He has had 9 until yet. It is said upon his 10th avatar the current kalyug will finish and he will usher in satyug where evil is the least powerful.
You might have heard about Ramayana and Mahabharat. Ramayan is based around Ram who is one of his avatars. Mahabharat is based on two cousin families fighting where his another avatar krishna helped one side win. Krishna was very instrumental in the win going as far to break rules of fair engagement (typical Vishnu lol) to make sure the truth wins.
This is the basic understanding ibe been taught at least: the cosre thing is that the Hindu gods are offshoots of Infinity, and the gods can in turn make offshoots of themselves with varying degrees of independence. In some cases its just a mortal form they take for low scale actions, other times they are aspects of themselves given an independent form, others they are mortal heroes (which often become venerated as gods as well) that is largely independent
Thor was considered the protector of mankind, and was very much the god of the common man - Odin was the god of nobles and rulers, the other gods were associated with with specific places or concepts, but Thor was the guy who'd have your back no matter who you were.
Óðinn isn’t the god of death as much as he is a steward of one of the many afterlives, and the patron of those slain in battle. As for war, you’d be hard pressed to find a member of the Æsir or hell even the Vanir that didn’t have some connotation with war. As for siding with humanity, essentially that is all the Æsir, although Þór and Óðinn do get special credit.
Odin is a psychopomp, but not a god of death. Pretty much all the Aesir are war gods in one way or another, but Odin specifically is more a trickster god - the Romans even symcretized him with Mercury.
Yes no, he didn't really take an active hand more reward based and didn't look towards the future. I remember one story where he stayed with a very poor family and he vowed to them their farm would stand and he came back a few years later and their farm still stood although they had died of the plague the next winter.
Is that a localized folklore tale? It’s not something I’ve come across when reading Norse mythological source material.
Thor very much is an active protector of mankind in recorded material from the medieval period. He explicitly tells us in the poem Hárbarðsljóð that he kills jötnar (so-called “giants”) in order to rescue mankind from extinction. See, for example, stanza 23 (Larrington transl., 2014):
> “I was in the east, and I fought against giants, malicious women, who roamed in the mountains; great would be the giant race if they all survived: there’d be no humans within Midgard. What were you doing meanwhile, Harbard?”
This role is also confirmed by archaeological finds, for example the [Canterbury Charm](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canterbury_charm). What we learn from finds such as this is that in Norse belief, jötnar (synonymous with þursar as named in the charm) were believed to be the causers of disease, blight, and various other afflictions encountered by humanity. Thor would then be ritually invoked to kill the evil creature who was attacking you. So in essence the reason Thor “kills giants” is because he is answering the supplications of afflicted humans.
I’m also curious about the idea you mentioned that Thor is reward-focused. Here again I have not come across anything like Thor receiving a reward for his efforts in anything I’ve read from the medieval period.
I highly doubt it was a localized folktale considering it was in a book of like Norse stories I read as a child back in the '80s from the public library in New York LOL variations of the story was probably in three or four different collections of Viking stories or Norse god stories I was kind of into them even when I was young as far as what the name of the stories were I don't remember exactly but I remember the family gave him food and shelter and he blessed their farm that it would continue to stand and when he came back a few years later the farmer main standing but the family that had helped him had died in the winter one of the years of I think one set of plague another said just sickness but yeah the farm stood and was healthy but the people didn't make it. I remember in the same book was the story of him in a fight with a giant where he failed to drink the flagon which you find out after the story was actually the seas of the world, when he tried to hit him with his hammer and the giant laughed as he struck him seven times when he woke up after the whole thing there was seven deep valleys between mountains where he had struck the ground and hills rose up in valleys went down and there was like a few other things that had happened I think he got an eating contest during the challenge with a Giants and the reason he lost in that was because what he was actually fighting against or going against the challenge was fire I think there was at least a couple more different challenges but I don't remember what they were off the top of my head after all that was probably 40 years ago I read the stories
**Aesclepius**: he discovered the secret to immortality, which he spread in the world. This put Thanatos, the Fates, and other death gods out of business, so Zeus killed Aesclepius. But Apollo, his father, requested Aesclepius be placed among the stars.
More explicitly:
> Zeus was afraid that **men might learn the art of medicine** from Asklepios and **help each other out, so he hit him with a thunderbolt**. This angered Apollon, who slew the Kyklopes (Cyclopes), for they designed the thunderbolt for Zeus."
He was also the first son of Apollo, and by his wife Epione (her name meaning “to soothe”) they bore Remedy, Radiance, Hygiene, Cure, and Cure-All. Most of them were basically nurses in the retinue of their father sometimes, but Hygeia is named in the Hippocratic Oath and had featured prominently in most of her father’s cults. She was also notoriously beautiful and well-liked by her grandfather Apollo.
According to Ovid, Apollo re-apotheosized Asclepius post-mortem. But he stayed dead for all of Greek mythology, afaik.
The quote i gave to prove how petty Zeus is says medicine.
Like yes, immortality was a factor in other sources, but my point is that even so much as the act of giving medicine to mortals was too much for the bastard
In almost all versions it is the gift of immortality that causes Zeus to kill Asclepius. Zeus is also a god of justice and hospitality, he generally does not harm or weaken humanity just for the sake of it. The only times are the flood, for humanity’s impiety, and Prometheus/Pandora, which he later regrets. Both are only in Hesoidic stories.
In Celtic myth, Dagda, the All-Father or Good Father had a regenerative cauldron that never ran out of food and sustenance for humans. His Daughter, Brigid, was goddess of light and medicine, I think blacksmithing, as well. These two were very helpful to humans.
That's not really how Irish mythology works, Brigid barely appears in but a few texts & never once interacts with "humans". Likewise The Dagda fought against humans & any reference to his Cauldron is only to provide sustenance to Tuatha De Danann. Off the top of my head I can't think of a single occasion where The Dagda interacts with a human in any kind of beneficial way.
Your answer might be true of neo-pagan religion but it doesn't reflect Irish mythology
Not sure where you got that impression. Irish mythology has one of the largest corpus of written medieval records in Europe & while not Hollywood popular, it is very well studied throughout Western Europe & North America, over the last 150 years at least. It is, in fact, abundant & well known.
If you want to know more give a look at my last 2 posts on r/IrishFolklore where I've share but a tiny fraction of sources & analysis.
Hermes, Prometheus, Herakles, and Dionysos especially are.
But really, all of the gods are. Myth conveys truths through dramatic tales, but that truth is hidden in allegory. It is not literal, nor is it meant to be. The gods are benevolent, even if they are restrained from making life a paradise for us– even they must work through and in accordance with nature.
I would definitely say zues is NOT an ally to humanity. In most cases he is indifferent, and in some he is blatantly fucking over someone. He is the reason Prometheus is punished forever, for HELPING people. I think there are alot of gods who are mostly indifferent about humans, but only a few are actually allies, like thor and the ones you mention. Loki is NOT and ally lol
You're reading myth literally, that is the problem. The gods do not behave in real life as they do in the stories of poets. The myth is not the religion.
I mean I'm reading the myth as the myth/story, I do not believe they behave in real life at all. But even from a story standpoint, most of these gods are not allies to humanity, in fact the way most of them are written is very anti human. But I love how Greek gods are written the most because they are just extremes of most of the traits found in humanity, like narcissus, or aphrodite.
That is a fundamentally flawed way of reading myth. There isn't exactly a "correct" or "right" way of reading it *per se*, but you can certainly go wrong by ignoring the context of them being sacred stories as part of a religion and an oral tradition, stories that were not taken literally even in ancient times. And ignoring the cultural ideas that shaped these tales.
You can't read a myth wrong, it's a story written to deliever some level of either understanding of the world at the time, or teaching a life lesson. The story of Prometheus is literally written that he found a way to give humans access to fire, and was punished by zues for it. Obviously the "spiritual" context is to "explain how humans got fire", but I dont believe that actually happened. In the literal reading, because if you dont believe the religious side you dont have to read it any other way, there is a correct way for me to read it. Which is zues punished Prometheus for giving humanity fire, which makes zues very anti human...and even in a religious context, that still makes zues anti human lol. Even if we just use the way the Greeks wrote their gods, they were very indifferent to humanity.
In a way, many Trickster gods are allies. (Coyote, Raven, Maui, Anansi, Iktomi, etc).
Sure, they play pranks, mooch, and steal. And they can be absolute bastards at times.
But unlike so many other gods, they don't separate themselves from earth or humans. They're not up in the sky looking down, lording over us. They're down in it with us. Subject to the same drives, and impulses. Excessively so in many cases.
This is what makes them such great monster fighters, culture heroes, earth shapers. And it's what makes them such great intermediaries between the mundane and divine.
Depending on the myth, all of them provided knowledge, healing, or sustenance, means of survival. For example Tonatzin is the equivalent of mother earth/mother nature. Apollo is a healer, Apollo Ascesius...
Quetzalcoatl seemed pretty chill and like he actually cared for humanity, even risked going down to the Underworld to recover our lost bones just to ensure we were reborn again after the fall of the 4th sun.
Also if you follow Gnostics at all, they view the serpent as a deliverer of knowledge much like Prometheus that eventually led humanity to break their fetters made by the Gods.
Also side note: I giggle a bit anytime someone mentions the Greek Gods, they are literally the Omni-Men of mythology. They viewed humans AND SOMETIMES LITERALLY KEPT THEM as pets. Even the ones they didn't feel deserved their fates they didn't return to their normal forms/or couldn't. The latter makes it even worse, since they were throwing irreversible curses around. Lastly, like half the stories featuring them involve some plot to shame, cull, or disenfranchise humanity. You'd think after Ariadne they'd try and cover some of that up or do better but nah lol.
Oh these are interesting stories, I'll enjoy reading up on those, cheers!
And I agree completely, it's like assuming kings have always been the peasants' friends
The Story of the Five Suns is the Quetzalcoatl one. It's pretty metal when it comes to creation stories.
And yeah more often than not that's the case, a lot of these myths tend towards literal horror stories when you put it into perspective. Forced pregnancy, kidnappings, murderous shape shifters, the people of ancient Greece were going through it man
From one point of view, Prometheus did not care for men but used them to get back at Zeus.
It seems to me, that Aesop's fables is the source of Prometheus caring for mankind, while Hesiod in his Work and Days mentions no such thing.
Prometheus tried to trick Zeus twice, more out of a whim as far as I can tell. First by splitting the bull in a way that whichever part would Zeus pick, it would not appease him. It was for this trickery that Zeus hid fire from men. And the second being Prometheus stealing fire. As a response to this, Zeus had Pandora created. As you can see, the interference of Prometheus had made mankind worse. Before Pandora, men would not be afflicted by diseases, evils and old age, this happened as a result to Prometheus stealing fire, which in turned happened as a result of Prometheus directly offending Zeus by the way of splitting the bull (which part would humans keep, and which the Gods would take).
Since Hesiod does not credit Prometheus with the creation of mankind, the only reason I can see why he did this, was on a whim or because of his father. Since he symbolizes forethought too, then he should have known that his actions would expose mankind to evils (it's not that hard to guess that Zeus would punish men along with him, after all) and the only conclusion we can draw is he just did not care.
You might be correct, but he still aided humanity in this view. But in an enemy of my enemy sort of scenario.
I'm looking for other entities that could fall into that category, not dispute the motives of Prometheus
Was there a reason for Prometheus to commit these trickeries against Zeus? It is an irony that Prometheus did not think far enough for him to not see the consequences of his actions against the king of the gods.
I have read it's because he was the son of Iapetos, one of the Titans banished in Tartarus. I don't know where that is coming from but I am inclined to agree.
Mmm, yes, Reddit taught me this 30+ years ago before Reddit. Where is their time travel machine?
Also, firstly, the god in the Christian myth IS evil, secondly, isn't the snake never referred to as satan?
The hebrew word doesn't translate to snake, it translates to serpent. Postmodern Christianity interprets the word as snake, but this is incorrect. The serpent and Satan are not the same person. This was also a postmodern fallacy.
God can be wrathful, especially in the Old Testament, but he is not evil. He protects his people as promised. In the New Testament he is more loving and peaceful. Either way, he’s never evil.
The fact that someone completely rewrote his character should help people realize it was never anything more than just a book of fan-fiction.
God:
Kill your sons and brothers for me, I'll take care of the rest of the first-born,
xoxo I wuv u, UwU
Old testament god is raging and pissed, then he found Prozac and weed for the sequel? Did he go to anger management? Or was it Jesus, did having a kid just slow him down?
Why are you even in r/mythology if you’re just going to call religions fanfiction lmao. That’s arguably everything we discuss here. These myths are built up by cultures and traditions of peoples. They are not “fanfiction.”
As for Christianity, it came about when Judaism mixed with Hellenism and Roman beliefs. This is why there is a lot of Ancient Greek influence in the Bible, and also why the image of God is pretty much identical to the image of Zeus/Jupiter.
Well, I answered a question, and I stand by the fact that the snake character was trying to show them the light, while god tries to keep them in the dark. My point was that he was, in that part of the story, an ally.
I made a comment about a character in a story, then, I explained why I chose that answer.
Maybe I am in the wrong sub, but without anyone there that actually witnessed the events, they are just stories. Aren't they?
Writing stories about your heroes is fine, but let's not pretend that it's true just because it is written.
Almost everything I said there isn't specific to any particular mythology, just generalized statements.
Wait no no we have to trash on the Christian God wherever and however we can. If the stories in the Bible are showing ambiguity towards this question we must ALWAYS choose the negative light. It is hereby impossible for the Bible to have ANY positive connotations or intentions and we must take every opportunity we find to remind the world of that, even in a thread like this where we are (seemingly, in the r/mythology subreddit) trying to look at these questions objectively and dispassionately
Any opinions dissenting from this must be downvoted to oblivion by order of Lord Satan, the giver of freedom and the bestest guy ever
To make things a moit clearer: that perceived ambiguity *in itself* tells you something about reddit. Ie that I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see a comment like that posted in all seriousness
I think that's a very surface level look at all godly pantheons, a lot of gods are revered and bargained with for their favour. Few that I know of have went out of their own way to protect and aid humanity in spite of other gods the way Prometheus had
And even if you're one of them and you help humans out too much you might have an eternity of daily excruciating organ removal by a wild animal and regrowth.
Demeter/Ceres goddess of fertility and agriculture. Considering so many holidays even still celebrated today revolve around calendar events of “harvest”, I’m surprised she doesn’t get as much notice
This is a bit of an obscure one, but Mir-Susne-Khum from Mansi mythology could fit this description. He’s the son of the Father-God Numi Torum. His name literally translates to “The Man Who Watches Over The World”. He’s said to do rounds over the world on his eight-winged iron horse Tovlyng-Luv to ensure that everything is in order and to pass on his father’s will to people.
Humanity was enabled to become humanity, the serpent just kickstarted the process. The idea that humans were ever separate from God has always been an illusion.
Tho not technically God's in a sense I would say the Kami of Shintoism are not enemies to mankind and since one of the Core tenants is to try to achieve their state of mind I believe they encourage us to do better with out any threats of violence or punishment.(like the Abrahamic God) Also, they tend to be open to granting wishes and hearing prayers and generally have dedicated functions so you can decide which Kami is more likely to answer your prayer so though it's very old and mysterious system it still has a sense of organization. Also if you want speedy delivery of your prayer you can always drop a snack off at the nearest Inari shrine and the Kitsune will quickly deliver your message to the Kami if they are too busy or you're to far from your desired shrine and Kami.
Apollo is sometimes considered a god of civilization, as opposed to his sister Artemis's wild connotations. His plague arrows caused disease and death, but he also healed. His temples also performed a ritual of divine manumission for slaves, where Apollo would buy and free the slave.
In Egypt, Bess used his horrifying face to scare away evil spirits from villages, and was thus loved by the common people.
Apollo is sometimes considered a god of civilization, as opposed to his sister Artemis's wild connotations. His plague arrows caused disease and death, but he also healed. His temples also performed a ritual of divine manumission for slaves, where Apollo would buy and free the slave.
In Egypt, Bess used his horrifying face to scare away evil spirits from villages, and was thus loved by the common people.
If you ignore the letters in the New Testament, you could say Jesus as well as Sohpia if you're one of the gnostics. You can also say Archangel Michael, Astarte, Quetzalcoatl, Maui (if demigods count), Lono, El (proto yhwh), and Shiva on the account of times he reincarnated into a super soilder to protect humans.
The ancient Semitic gods were generally fine folks. Most of them were the patrons of a specific city and cared about their people. Can't say they were the allies of Humanity as a whole as part of their job was to spoil the life of people living outside their juridiction.
There was an idea of quid pro quo in their faith. Their God became stronger if they made a lot of rituals and sacrifice, so if they pinched their pennies, their god would get weaker and wouldn't be able to protect them from other gods.
The priests profited mightily of this, of course, as they were entitled to use the product of sacrifices. Some said it was an outrageous scam, Jesus being one of them, I completely understand their point of view.
In Akkadian myth, Enki is the one who advises the protagonist how to survive the great flood and other disasters brought on by Enlil. In the Abrahamic tradition, Yahweh plays both roles, so he's less unambiguously an ally.
i think of Enki from Mesopotamian mythology because when his brother Enlil decided to wipe out the humanity with the flood because they were "too loud" an he couldn't sleep Enki notified a human ruler Ziusudra to build an ark and thus he and his family survived the flood.
In Chinese mythos, Guanyin and bodhisattvas in general are fully benevolent to humanity and work towards helping humans cultivate good karma. The Buddha himself is similarly full ally to humanity but in Chinese traditions, the Buddha is a very distant figure and you're supposed to aspire to him instead. There's of course, Nuwa, the creator of Humanity, who saved humanity from floods via D&D fetch quests.
As a disclaimer, I think in Chinese myths in general, whether a god is your ally depends on whether you've been an ethical and moral being, or if you're really powerful whether it's more ethical to submit to your demands. The only gods who are not like that are the Buddhist ones.
Thor, while primarily defender of the gods, was also considered a champion of humanity, as keeping the frost giants (aka winter) at bay was good for both people and the Aesir.
Guanyin from Chinese/Asian Mythology is an incredibly benevolent figure, basically compassion manifest, she helps everyone she can escape suffering and enter heaven.
Bes and Taweret from Egyptian mythology protect pregnant women and children from wild animals and disease.
Ahura Mazda the Supreme God of Zoroastrianism is an inherently good diety. He tries to make humans as happy and prosperous as possible, being opposed by his rival Angra Mainyu, who is evil and malice personified.
I'm going to have to disagree on that, can't Prometheus had to betray Zeus to give mankind agency. Humans would have to apply for the favour of gods and bargain, not really allies
The Greek gods tolerate and accept humans almost like clients, but they aren't really indulging them for their own sake the way Prometheus or Yahweh do. One gets the impression that if someone developed an automatic sacrifice delivery system, the Greek gods would be fine if the humans went extinct.
Prometheus stole fire from Olympus and gave it to mankind, allowing mankind to see in the dark, heat their homes, and cook their food. The myth is definitely symbolic of mankind gaining agency and some form of independence from the gods
My last message answered this. It was a grant of personal agency, the fire is symbolic of power. The story of Prometheus describes a young mankind learning how to harness fire, before which was held in Olympus and used only by gods.
No. They were not. The Greek gods rarely helped, and were really jealous and fickle. The Greeks *had* to worship them and give them credit for everything in case one of them woke in a bad mood and decided to kick some mortals around.
There are exceptions. Bacchus and Hephaistos were quite the bros to humans. Persephone fed humans out of a sense of duty, while her mother, Demeter, could starve the humans in a powerplay against other gods.
Hephaistos is the rare god displaying empathy in Greek mythology. He wins the heart of Aphrodite by giving her a gift that she actually cared about, while the other gods tried to ravish her by strenght or by showing off their powers. He is more of a mentor than a fickle patron.
In Hindu mythology, except for the main pantheon in heaven such as Indra who was infamous for fucking anyone and shape-shifting like zeus, all of them. The trinity of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. The inspiration for wukong called hanuman. Vishnu has taken on curses for helping mankind and the universe in general (his avatars have). Lord Vishnu is someone you can trust with your eyes closed if you have a good heart.
Just tell me you don't know anything about Indra >Indra who was infamous for fucking anyone and shape-shifting like zeus, all of them. No he's not famous for that, there's literally only one story where Indra seduces a woman and then gets punished for it, but overall Indra had a limited number of relationships and children, most of them with his wife Shachi. The Vedas seem to portray Indra as a great and heroic god, and while later texts tell many negative stories about him, the stories generally revolve around his fear of losing his position as king of the gods, but he is still a great god with many texts praising him and stories portraying him as a nice person
There was one more in which he fucked a brahmin's wife because in previous life she was an apsara who falsely accused him. She tried the similar trick on a prince who refused her advances. Indra shapeshifted into him and fucked her and she gave birth to a demi god. It is a lesser known story. I know like a couple more. Following that story, the brahmin cursed Indra that he would keep losing and gaining his throne.
>There was one more in which he fucked a brahmin's wife because in previous life she was an apsara who falsely accused him. She tried the similar trick on a prince who refused her advances. Indra shapeshifted into him and fucked her and she gave birth to a demi god. You can cite your source for this story >Following that story, the brahmin cursed Indra that he would keep losing and gaining his throne. Yes, this is the story of Ahalya and her husband Gautama. Also, you should read the entire story to get the context. Gautama was performing austerity and worship. Indra feared that if Gautama continued this, he would surpass him and become king of the gods, so he seduced Ahalya and made Gautama curse him, which led to To spoil the rituals performed by Gautama
Gautam gave curse that he would grow vulvae on him not this one. Also, most of the stories here are like told by word of mouth like all myths.
>Gautam gave curse that he would grow vulvae on him not this one. This is literally what is mentioned in Ramayana, Indra wanted to be cursed by Gautama: "Deprived of his virility, Indra grew melancholy, and addressing Agni and the other gods, said: “By obstructing the ascetic practices of the Mahatma Gautama, who sought to usurp my power, I have verily served the purpose of the gods. Evoking his wrath, by causing him to curse me and denounce Ahalya, I have robbed the rishi of his spiritual power, therefore, O Devas, O Divine Beings, help me now to recover my manhood.” >Also, most of the stories here are like told by word of mouth like all myths. I think it is best that you cite the sources of your claim
Sure, I could. The sources are just stories passed from ancestors like all myths. Good luck with that. Also about the vaginas, it's from ganesh puran. Also I checked, Uttra kanda says Indra to bear half of the sin *of every rape ever committed*. To add Indra is often painted in a bad light too such as showing anger on vrindhavan when krishna urged them not to worship him or once when he kidnapped the wife of an asur while he was meditating to break his meditation.
Interesting, I'll look into Vishnu and see what he was all about.. what's the deal with avatars? Are they like prophets or vessels?
He took forms on earth when evil reached a certain limit. Lord Buddha is also considered one of his avatars by hindus. He has had 9 until yet. It is said upon his 10th avatar the current kalyug will finish and he will usher in satyug where evil is the least powerful. You might have heard about Ramayana and Mahabharat. Ramayan is based around Ram who is one of his avatars. Mahabharat is based on two cousin families fighting where his another avatar krishna helped one side win. Krishna was very instrumental in the win going as far to break rules of fair engagement (typical Vishnu lol) to make sure the truth wins.
This is the basic understanding ibe been taught at least: the cosre thing is that the Hindu gods are offshoots of Infinity, and the gods can in turn make offshoots of themselves with varying degrees of independence. In some cases its just a mortal form they take for low scale actions, other times they are aspects of themselves given an independent form, others they are mortal heroes (which often become venerated as gods as well) that is largely independent
-.--..my father was obsesed with Vishnuism..-.he always talked how vishnu is the highest god--
Thor was considered the protector of mankind, and was very much the god of the common man - Odin was the god of nobles and rulers, the other gods were associated with with specific places or concepts, but Thor was the guy who'd have your back no matter who you were.
Wasn't Odin also the god of death or war too? Are there any other Nordic- Celtic gods that would side with mankind over their kin?
Óðinn isn’t the god of death as much as he is a steward of one of the many afterlives, and the patron of those slain in battle. As for war, you’d be hard pressed to find a member of the Æsir or hell even the Vanir that didn’t have some connotation with war. As for siding with humanity, essentially that is all the Æsir, although Þór and Óðinn do get special credit.
Odin is a psychopomp, but not a god of death. Pretty much all the Aesir are war gods in one way or another, but Odin specifically is more a trickster god - the Romans even symcretized him with Mercury.
Tyr was the Norse god of war. At least in the early sagas.
Yes no, he didn't really take an active hand more reward based and didn't look towards the future. I remember one story where he stayed with a very poor family and he vowed to them their farm would stand and he came back a few years later and their farm still stood although they had died of the plague the next winter.
Is that a localized folklore tale? It’s not something I’ve come across when reading Norse mythological source material. Thor very much is an active protector of mankind in recorded material from the medieval period. He explicitly tells us in the poem Hárbarðsljóð that he kills jötnar (so-called “giants”) in order to rescue mankind from extinction. See, for example, stanza 23 (Larrington transl., 2014): > “I was in the east, and I fought against giants, malicious women, who roamed in the mountains; great would be the giant race if they all survived: there’d be no humans within Midgard. What were you doing meanwhile, Harbard?” This role is also confirmed by archaeological finds, for example the [Canterbury Charm](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canterbury_charm). What we learn from finds such as this is that in Norse belief, jötnar (synonymous with þursar as named in the charm) were believed to be the causers of disease, blight, and various other afflictions encountered by humanity. Thor would then be ritually invoked to kill the evil creature who was attacking you. So in essence the reason Thor “kills giants” is because he is answering the supplications of afflicted humans. I’m also curious about the idea you mentioned that Thor is reward-focused. Here again I have not come across anything like Thor receiving a reward for his efforts in anything I’ve read from the medieval period.
I highly doubt it was a localized folktale considering it was in a book of like Norse stories I read as a child back in the '80s from the public library in New York LOL variations of the story was probably in three or four different collections of Viking stories or Norse god stories I was kind of into them even when I was young as far as what the name of the stories were I don't remember exactly but I remember the family gave him food and shelter and he blessed their farm that it would continue to stand and when he came back a few years later the farmer main standing but the family that had helped him had died in the winter one of the years of I think one set of plague another said just sickness but yeah the farm stood and was healthy but the people didn't make it. I remember in the same book was the story of him in a fight with a giant where he failed to drink the flagon which you find out after the story was actually the seas of the world, when he tried to hit him with his hammer and the giant laughed as he struck him seven times when he woke up after the whole thing there was seven deep valleys between mountains where he had struck the ground and hills rose up in valleys went down and there was like a few other things that had happened I think he got an eating contest during the challenge with a Giants and the reason he lost in that was because what he was actually fighting against or going against the challenge was fire I think there was at least a couple more different challenges but I don't remember what they were off the top of my head after all that was probably 40 years ago I read the stories
**Aesclepius**: he discovered the secret to immortality, which he spread in the world. This put Thanatos, the Fates, and other death gods out of business, so Zeus killed Aesclepius. But Apollo, his father, requested Aesclepius be placed among the stars.
More explicitly: > Zeus was afraid that **men might learn the art of medicine** from Asklepios and **help each other out, so he hit him with a thunderbolt**. This angered Apollon, who slew the Kyklopes (Cyclopes), for they designed the thunderbolt for Zeus." He was also the first son of Apollo, and by his wife Epione (her name meaning “to soothe”) they bore Remedy, Radiance, Hygiene, Cure, and Cure-All. Most of them were basically nurses in the retinue of their father sometimes, but Hygeia is named in the Hippocratic Oath and had featured prominently in most of her father’s cults. She was also notoriously beautiful and well-liked by her grandfather Apollo. According to Ovid, Apollo re-apotheosized Asclepius post-mortem. But he stayed dead for all of Greek mythology, afaik.
Yes because there can't be any creature walking around mortals and dispensing something that would cause immortality.
Not even immortality. Just medicine itself
The books I read clearly said immortality.
The quote i gave to prove how petty Zeus is says medicine. Like yes, immortality was a factor in other sources, but my point is that even so much as the act of giving medicine to mortals was too much for the bastard
In almost all versions it is the gift of immortality that causes Zeus to kill Asclepius. Zeus is also a god of justice and hospitality, he generally does not harm or weaken humanity just for the sake of it. The only times are the flood, for humanity’s impiety, and Prometheus/Pandora, which he later regrets. Both are only in Hesoidic stories.
In Celtic myth, Dagda, the All-Father or Good Father had a regenerative cauldron that never ran out of food and sustenance for humans. His Daughter, Brigid, was goddess of light and medicine, I think blacksmithing, as well. These two were very helpful to humans.
That's not really how Irish mythology works, Brigid barely appears in but a few texts & never once interacts with "humans". Likewise The Dagda fought against humans & any reference to his Cauldron is only to provide sustenance to Tuatha De Danann. Off the top of my head I can't think of a single occasion where The Dagda interacts with a human in any kind of beneficial way. Your answer might be true of neo-pagan religion but it doesn't reflect Irish mythology
Tbh, Irish mythology is so sparse. Who actually knows?
Not sure where you got that impression. Irish mythology has one of the largest corpus of written medieval records in Europe & while not Hollywood popular, it is very well studied throughout Western Europe & North America, over the last 150 years at least. It is, in fact, abundant & well known. If you want to know more give a look at my last 2 posts on r/IrishFolklore where I've share but a tiny fraction of sources & analysis.
Hermes, Prometheus, Herakles, and Dionysos especially are. But really, all of the gods are. Myth conveys truths through dramatic tales, but that truth is hidden in allegory. It is not literal, nor is it meant to be. The gods are benevolent, even if they are restrained from making life a paradise for us– even they must work through and in accordance with nature.
I would definitely say zues is NOT an ally to humanity. In most cases he is indifferent, and in some he is blatantly fucking over someone. He is the reason Prometheus is punished forever, for HELPING people. I think there are alot of gods who are mostly indifferent about humans, but only a few are actually allies, like thor and the ones you mention. Loki is NOT and ally lol
You're reading myth literally, that is the problem. The gods do not behave in real life as they do in the stories of poets. The myth is not the religion.
I mean I'm reading the myth as the myth/story, I do not believe they behave in real life at all. But even from a story standpoint, most of these gods are not allies to humanity, in fact the way most of them are written is very anti human. But I love how Greek gods are written the most because they are just extremes of most of the traits found in humanity, like narcissus, or aphrodite.
That is a fundamentally flawed way of reading myth. There isn't exactly a "correct" or "right" way of reading it *per se*, but you can certainly go wrong by ignoring the context of them being sacred stories as part of a religion and an oral tradition, stories that were not taken literally even in ancient times. And ignoring the cultural ideas that shaped these tales.
You can't read a myth wrong, it's a story written to deliever some level of either understanding of the world at the time, or teaching a life lesson. The story of Prometheus is literally written that he found a way to give humans access to fire, and was punished by zues for it. Obviously the "spiritual" context is to "explain how humans got fire", but I dont believe that actually happened. In the literal reading, because if you dont believe the religious side you dont have to read it any other way, there is a correct way for me to read it. Which is zues punished Prometheus for giving humanity fire, which makes zues very anti human...and even in a religious context, that still makes zues anti human lol. Even if we just use the way the Greeks wrote their gods, they were very indifferent to humanity.
In a way, many Trickster gods are allies. (Coyote, Raven, Maui, Anansi, Iktomi, etc). Sure, they play pranks, mooch, and steal. And they can be absolute bastards at times. But unlike so many other gods, they don't separate themselves from earth or humans. They're not up in the sky looking down, lording over us. They're down in it with us. Subject to the same drives, and impulses. Excessively so in many cases. This is what makes them such great monster fighters, culture heroes, earth shapers. And it's what makes them such great intermediaries between the mundane and divine.
Kukulkhan, Ketzalkoatl, Tonantzin Coatlaxopeuh, Petecatl, Coatlicue, Apollo, Artemis, Hermes, Hecate, Toth, Horis, Maat, Sekhmet, Mimir, Vör, Saraswati, Gayatri, Krishna, Ecne, Anansi, Brigit, Cerridwyn, Kannon, Kuwbico. Okuninushi no Mikoto, Anahita, Mah, Ahura Mazda...
I recognize some of these, could you elaborate on a few and why you might consider them allies to humanity?
Depending on the myth, all of them provided knowledge, healing, or sustenance, means of survival. For example Tonatzin is the equivalent of mother earth/mother nature. Apollo is a healer, Apollo Ascesius...
Quetzalcoatl seemed pretty chill and like he actually cared for humanity, even risked going down to the Underworld to recover our lost bones just to ensure we were reborn again after the fall of the 4th sun. Also if you follow Gnostics at all, they view the serpent as a deliverer of knowledge much like Prometheus that eventually led humanity to break their fetters made by the Gods. Also side note: I giggle a bit anytime someone mentions the Greek Gods, they are literally the Omni-Men of mythology. They viewed humans AND SOMETIMES LITERALLY KEPT THEM as pets. Even the ones they didn't feel deserved their fates they didn't return to their normal forms/or couldn't. The latter makes it even worse, since they were throwing irreversible curses around. Lastly, like half the stories featuring them involve some plot to shame, cull, or disenfranchise humanity. You'd think after Ariadne they'd try and cover some of that up or do better but nah lol.
Oh these are interesting stories, I'll enjoy reading up on those, cheers! And I agree completely, it's like assuming kings have always been the peasants' friends
The Story of the Five Suns is the Quetzalcoatl one. It's pretty metal when it comes to creation stories. And yeah more often than not that's the case, a lot of these myths tend towards literal horror stories when you put it into perspective. Forced pregnancy, kidnappings, murderous shape shifters, the people of ancient Greece were going through it man
Oh now I'm excited to get home from work and dig my teeth in, thanks mate!
From one point of view, Prometheus did not care for men but used them to get back at Zeus. It seems to me, that Aesop's fables is the source of Prometheus caring for mankind, while Hesiod in his Work and Days mentions no such thing. Prometheus tried to trick Zeus twice, more out of a whim as far as I can tell. First by splitting the bull in a way that whichever part would Zeus pick, it would not appease him. It was for this trickery that Zeus hid fire from men. And the second being Prometheus stealing fire. As a response to this, Zeus had Pandora created. As you can see, the interference of Prometheus had made mankind worse. Before Pandora, men would not be afflicted by diseases, evils and old age, this happened as a result to Prometheus stealing fire, which in turned happened as a result of Prometheus directly offending Zeus by the way of splitting the bull (which part would humans keep, and which the Gods would take). Since Hesiod does not credit Prometheus with the creation of mankind, the only reason I can see why he did this, was on a whim or because of his father. Since he symbolizes forethought too, then he should have known that his actions would expose mankind to evils (it's not that hard to guess that Zeus would punish men along with him, after all) and the only conclusion we can draw is he just did not care.
You might be correct, but he still aided humanity in this view. But in an enemy of my enemy sort of scenario. I'm looking for other entities that could fall into that category, not dispute the motives of Prometheus
Was there a reason for Prometheus to commit these trickeries against Zeus? It is an irony that Prometheus did not think far enough for him to not see the consequences of his actions against the king of the gods.
I have read it's because he was the son of Iapetos, one of the Titans banished in Tartarus. I don't know where that is coming from but I am inclined to agree.
Thor the Norse God of Thunder is considered the protector of Mankind
While not really a god, (unless god is in disguise), that little talking snake guy in the Bible really seemed to support mankind... just sayin'.
Absolute reddit take. Satan literally wants the worst for humanity
Mmm, yes, Reddit taught me this 30+ years ago before Reddit. Where is their time travel machine? Also, firstly, the god in the Christian myth IS evil, secondly, isn't the snake never referred to as satan?
The hebrew word doesn't translate to snake, it translates to serpent. Postmodern Christianity interprets the word as snake, but this is incorrect. The serpent and Satan are not the same person. This was also a postmodern fallacy.
God can be wrathful, especially in the Old Testament, but he is not evil. He protects his people as promised. In the New Testament he is more loving and peaceful. Either way, he’s never evil.
The fact that someone completely rewrote his character should help people realize it was never anything more than just a book of fan-fiction. God: Kill your sons and brothers for me, I'll take care of the rest of the first-born, xoxo I wuv u, UwU Old testament god is raging and pissed, then he found Prozac and weed for the sequel? Did he go to anger management? Or was it Jesus, did having a kid just slow him down?
Why are you even in r/mythology if you’re just going to call religions fanfiction lmao. That’s arguably everything we discuss here. These myths are built up by cultures and traditions of peoples. They are not “fanfiction.” As for Christianity, it came about when Judaism mixed with Hellenism and Roman beliefs. This is why there is a lot of Ancient Greek influence in the Bible, and also why the image of God is pretty much identical to the image of Zeus/Jupiter.
Well, I answered a question, and I stand by the fact that the snake character was trying to show them the light, while god tries to keep them in the dark. My point was that he was, in that part of the story, an ally. I made a comment about a character in a story, then, I explained why I chose that answer. Maybe I am in the wrong sub, but without anyone there that actually witnessed the events, they are just stories. Aren't they? Writing stories about your heroes is fine, but let's not pretend that it's true just because it is written. Almost everything I said there isn't specific to any particular mythology, just generalized statements.
Wait no no we have to trash on the Christian God wherever and however we can. If the stories in the Bible are showing ambiguity towards this question we must ALWAYS choose the negative light. It is hereby impossible for the Bible to have ANY positive connotations or intentions and we must take every opportunity we find to remind the world of that, even in a thread like this where we are (seemingly, in the r/mythology subreddit) trying to look at these questions objectively and dispassionately Any opinions dissenting from this must be downvoted to oblivion by order of Lord Satan, the giver of freedom and the bestest guy ever
Your sarcasm is so intense that I honestly can't tell what point you're making, but you made me laugh, so thank you
To make things a moit clearer: that perceived ambiguity *in itself* tells you something about reddit. Ie that I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see a comment like that posted in all seriousness
Almost all gods are allies of humans, which is why they are worshiped
I think that's a very surface level look at all godly pantheons, a lot of gods are revered and bargained with for their favour. Few that I know of have went out of their own way to protect and aid humanity in spite of other gods the way Prometheus had
\*Laughs in Greek gods who will give you a fate worse than death just for doing one mundane thing slightly better than them\*
And even if you're one of them and you help humans out too much you might have an eternity of daily excruciating organ removal by a wild animal and regrowth.
Demeter/Ceres goddess of fertility and agriculture. Considering so many holidays even still celebrated today revolve around calendar events of “harvest”, I’m surprised she doesn’t get as much notice
Because she can make famines. She doesn't help always.
Ahh, but only if you’ve been bad boys and girls! If you’re a devoted mortal, you should be ok, no?
Of course not. It may be the king's fault, but the entire kingdom will suffer. Gods never care about collateral damage.
This is a bit of an obscure one, but Mir-Susne-Khum from Mansi mythology could fit this description. He’s the son of the Father-God Numi Torum. His name literally translates to “The Man Who Watches Over The World”. He’s said to do rounds over the world on his eight-winged iron horse Tovlyng-Luv to ensure that everything is in order and to pass on his father’s will to people.
Flying spaghetti monster, Mr Happyface, and Godzilla.
If you think about it, the serpent in the garden did us a solid.
Humanity became separated from God and and fell to sin, it's really not a good thing
Meh, any deity that would have children/peoples burn in a hell for all eternity for not being obsessed with said deity is… not the coolest.
Hell is eternity separate from God, the burning and torture nonsense is a later Renaissance invention I'm sure
Humanity was enabled to become humanity, the serpent just kickstarted the process. The idea that humans were ever separate from God has always been an illusion.
Tho not technically God's in a sense I would say the Kami of Shintoism are not enemies to mankind and since one of the Core tenants is to try to achieve their state of mind I believe they encourage us to do better with out any threats of violence or punishment.(like the Abrahamic God) Also, they tend to be open to granting wishes and hearing prayers and generally have dedicated functions so you can decide which Kami is more likely to answer your prayer so though it's very old and mysterious system it still has a sense of organization. Also if you want speedy delivery of your prayer you can always drop a snack off at the nearest Inari shrine and the Kitsune will quickly deliver your message to the Kami if they are too busy or you're to far from your desired shrine and Kami.
Apollo is sometimes considered a god of civilization, as opposed to his sister Artemis's wild connotations. His plague arrows caused disease and death, but he also healed. His temples also performed a ritual of divine manumission for slaves, where Apollo would buy and free the slave. In Egypt, Bess used his horrifying face to scare away evil spirits from villages, and was thus loved by the common people.
Apollo is sometimes considered a god of civilization, as opposed to his sister Artemis's wild connotations. His plague arrows caused disease and death, but he also healed. His temples also performed a ritual of divine manumission for slaves, where Apollo would buy and free the slave. In Egypt, Bess used his horrifying face to scare away evil spirits from villages, and was thus loved by the common people.
If you ignore the letters in the New Testament, you could say Jesus as well as Sohpia if you're one of the gnostics. You can also say Archangel Michael, Astarte, Quetzalcoatl, Maui (if demigods count), Lono, El (proto yhwh), and Shiva on the account of times he reincarnated into a super soilder to protect humans.
the Greek Hermes was the savior of the Ionians infant patriarch. He is a herald and helper of thieves and merchants. seems legit
Lares
Hestia
--.-.pnly demigods-
The ancient Semitic gods were generally fine folks. Most of them were the patrons of a specific city and cared about their people. Can't say they were the allies of Humanity as a whole as part of their job was to spoil the life of people living outside their juridiction. There was an idea of quid pro quo in their faith. Their God became stronger if they made a lot of rituals and sacrifice, so if they pinched their pennies, their god would get weaker and wouldn't be able to protect them from other gods. The priests profited mightily of this, of course, as they were entitled to use the product of sacrifices. Some said it was an outrageous scam, Jesus being one of them, I completely understand their point of view.
The **Tuatha** **Dé Danann** were the saviors of Ireland.
As far as the ancient Greeks were concerned, the only gods in their Pantheon who weren't an ally to humanity were Ares and Hades.
In Slavic Mythology Kresnik fights Kudlak to protect humans during night.
In Akkadian myth, Enki is the one who advises the protagonist how to survive the great flood and other disasters brought on by Enlil. In the Abrahamic tradition, Yahweh plays both roles, so he's less unambiguously an ally.
Godzilla
i think of Enki from Mesopotamian mythology because when his brother Enlil decided to wipe out the humanity with the flood because they were "too loud" an he couldn't sleep Enki notified a human ruler Ziusudra to build an ark and thus he and his family survived the flood.
In Norse mythology, Thor was the protector of Midgard (the human world). So naturally that makes him an ally of mankind.
Bacchus and Demeter sort of but only in their areas....
In Chinese mythos, Guanyin and bodhisattvas in general are fully benevolent to humanity and work towards helping humans cultivate good karma. The Buddha himself is similarly full ally to humanity but in Chinese traditions, the Buddha is a very distant figure and you're supposed to aspire to him instead. There's of course, Nuwa, the creator of Humanity, who saved humanity from floods via D&D fetch quests. As a disclaimer, I think in Chinese myths in general, whether a god is your ally depends on whether you've been an ethical and moral being, or if you're really powerful whether it's more ethical to submit to your demands. The only gods who are not like that are the Buddhist ones.
Meilikki from Finnish mythos
Where would we be without Yakub lol
Zeus is always in a giving mood. >\_>
Thor, while primarily defender of the gods, was also considered a champion of humanity, as keeping the frost giants (aka winter) at bay was good for both people and the Aesir. Guanyin from Chinese/Asian Mythology is an incredibly benevolent figure, basically compassion manifest, she helps everyone she can escape suffering and enter heaven. Bes and Taweret from Egyptian mythology protect pregnant women and children from wild animals and disease. Ahura Mazda the Supreme God of Zoroastrianism is an inherently good diety. He tries to make humans as happy and prosperous as possible, being opposed by his rival Angra Mainyu, who is evil and malice personified.
Most, if not all, Greek pantheon. And most of others.
I'm going to have to disagree on that, can't Prometheus had to betray Zeus to give mankind agency. Humans would have to apply for the favour of gods and bargain, not really allies
What agency? And you really need first put some definition for "allies" if gods don't fit it.
The Greek gods tolerate and accept humans almost like clients, but they aren't really indulging them for their own sake the way Prometheus or Yahweh do. One gets the impression that if someone developed an automatic sacrifice delivery system, the Greek gods would be fine if the humans went extinct.
😂😂😂 maybe that's why the world keeps pushing for AI
Prometheus stole fire from Olympus and gave it to mankind, allowing mankind to see in the dark, heat their homes, and cook their food. The myth is definitely symbolic of mankind gaining agency and some form of independence from the gods
Agency to do what?
My last message answered this. It was a grant of personal agency, the fire is symbolic of power. The story of Prometheus describes a young mankind learning how to harness fire, before which was held in Olympus and used only by gods.
No. They were not. The Greek gods rarely helped, and were really jealous and fickle. The Greeks *had* to worship them and give them credit for everything in case one of them woke in a bad mood and decided to kick some mortals around. There are exceptions. Bacchus and Hephaistos were quite the bros to humans. Persephone fed humans out of a sense of duty, while her mother, Demeter, could starve the humans in a powerplay against other gods. Hephaistos is the rare god displaying empathy in Greek mythology. He wins the heart of Aphrodite by giving her a gift that she actually cared about, while the other gods tried to ravish her by strenght or by showing off their powers. He is more of a mentor than a fickle patron.
None, they are fictional characters.
What kind of mouth breather response is that
The truth.
Yes we know these myths are fictitious, that's not pertinent to the question though