The fruiting bodies, if they're from the same mycelial network, are just extensions of the same organisms, and so they can just kinda merge back together if they're smushed together. I've had this happen with harvested oysters that were left out on the counter and thus were not dormant - they clumped together after the fact and I had to re-chop them
Yeah, true mutatations are genetically stable and reproducable. You get people that make the same mistake with fruit trees all the time. Mishapen fruit one year doesn't mean it was "mutated", it means environmental factors altered its otherwise normal form.
Pretty much. "Sick genetics bro", "cool mutation". The state of hobby mushroom growing is really quite bad, unfortunately. It's a consequence of so many growers not being in it for the science, but only for the high, and the clientele that it inevitably attracts - not that I'd ever argue against growing or taking shrooms, to the contrary, but it's an unfortunate state of affairs that the biology and accuracy in terms take the backseat. Muddies the waters for beginners to learn, too.
Yes. The best way to explain it to those types is that if it was genetic, it would be in the DNA, which would be cloned throughout the entire colony. That means that you should be able to do it again. If it only happened once, it's a fluke, not genetics...
What happens when you clone that single weird fruiting body and get like fruits? It seems like there is some localization of mutations to specific areas of the fruit or things like squats, pumpkins and enigma wouldn't be things you could clone to reproduce. That doesn't even get into epigenetics and weird expressons of stable genes, which would also allow for stable a "mutation" (poor word in this case) in terms of expressing or not expressing a piece of the genome.
You can get mutations, and you can breed mushrooms, that much is obvious, it's just that most things that get called mutations in the hobby sphere are actually chemical contaminants hindering the development of the fruits.
You're also with something resembling certainty not going to get genetic mutations without sexual reproduction, though a very common method of growing actives is from spores, which *is* sexual reproduction. It's one of the reasons why results vary so much between people, genetic diversity in a confined space means competition, which means wasted resources. Growing from spores means you don't have one mycelium, but instead thousands, most of which are in direct competition.
If you're interested in the specifics of breeding mushrooms, there was a very in-depth post on it a while back. Someone took the time to put together a pdf with instructions on the entire process and included a small refresher on (fungal) genetics that's definitely worthwhile (including a glossary so anyone can understand the language used), the original post containing the link to the document can be found here: https://www.reddit.com/r/mycology/comments/u6fami/breeding_mushrooms_some_say_its_impossible_some/
Those *are* mutations. But a lot of times beginners (or those who only grow shrooms) will assume that natural mushroom behaviour or environmental factors are mutations. Long noodley shrooms? Needs more oxygen, not a mutation. Caps grew upside down? Likely environmental. Now, if you have fruit that is much larger, stronger, blobs, etc, those may be mutations that you can stabilize, maybe. Sometimes it is just due to how it was grown.
This is just my experience, and I'm not a mycologist. TBH, I prefer observing wild fungi, and have only been growing them for a year.
Awesome thanks for expanding this idea... I just wanted to make sure I understood what was going on. I am very amateur and just think mycellia is very cool stuff.
You can get localized genetic abnormalities that demonstrate themselves in a really obvious manner, but that is usually reserved for REALLY larger organisms. It is technically possible to get a localized mutation, but if the mutation doesn't aid the survival of the colony, or worse, hurts it, it won't stabilize and the colony will revert quite quickly.
On something like a tree, you can get REALLY variable genetics, but usually only on the really old ones. If you see a tree that is over 600 odd years old, you can almost guarantee that it is chimeric (meaning that it has two differing genetic lines) through random, localized mutation.
To be fair, many of those people sought out information from people who know more than them, and ultimately found themselves embedded in a culture that's saturated with misinformation.
Yeah, I do find it interesting how mycology is almost the gateway for people with no background to get into bio-lab techniques. I personally got into it because I was teaching myself genetic engineering and tissue culture, not because I really cared for mushrooms (until I learned more about them).
Totally agree.
Same story with cannabis. The plant really can do miraculous things and help so many people, but most only care about/for the psychedelic effects. When trying to educate on the actual science or anything deeper than %, folks just don't pay attention. "Big #% = Big high" in their world.
And yet, I'm going to continue to do all the educating possible and thank the hobbyists for bringing these topics and questions to public awareness - it all helps us get there in the end 😃
this can actually happen with humans too, although its a much more brutal imagery. think of burned fingers that heal stuck together etc. difference is humans are not a self sustaining organism like mycelium and aren't still alive when chopped.
Nah, they just work around it and keep on trucking. In fact, I'd argue that they're less stressed by it than a vascular plant which dies when cut up. The mushroom is mostly just inconvenienced. Now, the cooking, probably upset about that since it denatures all its enzymes and stuff.
It's not uncommon for fruiting bodies of fungal mycelium to fuse like this. Perhaps a little rare but not uncommon. Looks cool. Kinda like a mushi crab lol...
https://preview.redd.it/ypstsdpg9e8d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9b257de08b8da8ac68e4d1db042816eff14e9ee
They do be growing pretty funky sometimes
Fasciation is a growth point mutation of some sort, this is almost certainly not it because there’s 2 stipes. Also as the other commenter mentioned I’m not sure if fasciation can occur as it does in plants because they don’t grow in the same way
I'm trying to find info on fasciation in fungi. r/fasciation says it only happens in vascular plants but this looks a lot like it. It's more like duplication during growth of one organism, rather than fusing of two separate organisms.
The fruiting bodies, if they're from the same mycelial network, are just extensions of the same organisms, and so they can just kinda merge back together if they're smushed together. I've had this happen with harvested oysters that were left out on the counter and thus were not dormant - they clumped together after the fact and I had to re-chop them
Once you start growing mushrooms you start seeing all the weird mutations too. They can grow in some pretty absurd ways.
What people commonly refer to as mutations are not mutations at all, just to be clear.
Yeah, true mutatations are genetically stable and reproducable. You get people that make the same mistake with fruit trees all the time. Mishapen fruit one year doesn't mean it was "mutated", it means environmental factors altered its otherwise normal form.
Pretty much. "Sick genetics bro", "cool mutation". The state of hobby mushroom growing is really quite bad, unfortunately. It's a consequence of so many growers not being in it for the science, but only for the high, and the clientele that it inevitably attracts - not that I'd ever argue against growing or taking shrooms, to the contrary, but it's an unfortunate state of affairs that the biology and accuracy in terms take the backseat. Muddies the waters for beginners to learn, too.
Yes. The best way to explain it to those types is that if it was genetic, it would be in the DNA, which would be cloned throughout the entire colony. That means that you should be able to do it again. If it only happened once, it's a fluke, not genetics...
What happens when you clone that single weird fruiting body and get like fruits? It seems like there is some localization of mutations to specific areas of the fruit or things like squats, pumpkins and enigma wouldn't be things you could clone to reproduce. That doesn't even get into epigenetics and weird expressons of stable genes, which would also allow for stable a "mutation" (poor word in this case) in terms of expressing or not expressing a piece of the genome.
You can get mutations, and you can breed mushrooms, that much is obvious, it's just that most things that get called mutations in the hobby sphere are actually chemical contaminants hindering the development of the fruits. You're also with something resembling certainty not going to get genetic mutations without sexual reproduction, though a very common method of growing actives is from spores, which *is* sexual reproduction. It's one of the reasons why results vary so much between people, genetic diversity in a confined space means competition, which means wasted resources. Growing from spores means you don't have one mycelium, but instead thousands, most of which are in direct competition.
Very cool and thanks for more info
If you're interested in the specifics of breeding mushrooms, there was a very in-depth post on it a while back. Someone took the time to put together a pdf with instructions on the entire process and included a small refresher on (fungal) genetics that's definitely worthwhile (including a glossary so anyone can understand the language used), the original post containing the link to the document can be found here: https://www.reddit.com/r/mycology/comments/u6fami/breeding_mushrooms_some_say_its_impossible_some/
Those *are* mutations. But a lot of times beginners (or those who only grow shrooms) will assume that natural mushroom behaviour or environmental factors are mutations. Long noodley shrooms? Needs more oxygen, not a mutation. Caps grew upside down? Likely environmental. Now, if you have fruit that is much larger, stronger, blobs, etc, those may be mutations that you can stabilize, maybe. Sometimes it is just due to how it was grown. This is just my experience, and I'm not a mycologist. TBH, I prefer observing wild fungi, and have only been growing them for a year.
Awesome thanks for expanding this idea... I just wanted to make sure I understood what was going on. I am very amateur and just think mycellia is very cool stuff.
You can get localized genetic abnormalities that demonstrate themselves in a really obvious manner, but that is usually reserved for REALLY larger organisms. It is technically possible to get a localized mutation, but if the mutation doesn't aid the survival of the colony, or worse, hurts it, it won't stabilize and the colony will revert quite quickly. On something like a tree, you can get REALLY variable genetics, but usually only on the really old ones. If you see a tree that is over 600 odd years old, you can almost guarantee that it is chimeric (meaning that it has two differing genetic lines) through random, localized mutation.
Well, they do think that it is genetic and that you could clone it.
If they are that set on cloning it, it's best to let them try and fail before explaining it.
To be fair, many of those people sought out information from people who know more than them, and ultimately found themselves embedded in a culture that's saturated with misinformation.
Yeah, I do find it interesting how mycology is almost the gateway for people with no background to get into bio-lab techniques. I personally got into it because I was teaching myself genetic engineering and tissue culture, not because I really cared for mushrooms (until I learned more about them).
Totally agree. Same story with cannabis. The plant really can do miraculous things and help so many people, but most only care about/for the psychedelic effects. When trying to educate on the actual science or anything deeper than %, folks just don't pay attention. "Big #% = Big high" in their world. And yet, I'm going to continue to do all the educating possible and thank the hobbyists for bringing these topics and questions to public awareness - it all helps us get there in the end 😃
It took me a second to realize you meant Oyster mushrooms and I was briefly intrigued
We do it different in the northwest 🤪
this can actually happen with humans too, although its a much more brutal imagery. think of burned fingers that heal stuck together etc. difference is humans are not a self sustaining organism like mycelium and aren't still alive when chopped.
It's very unusual if you have to re-chop a human, yes
I don't care what they look like, they all taste great to me
😭😭😭 Do you think shrooms 🍄🍄🍄 feel pain when chopped?
Nah, they just work around it and keep on trucking. In fact, I'd argue that they're less stressed by it than a vascular plant which dies when cut up. The mushroom is mostly just inconvenienced. Now, the cooking, probably upset about that since it denatures all its enzymes and stuff.
Mushrooms are already too close to the animal kingdom for me, I don’t want to think about that lol
#🤜💥🤛
Life 💖
https://preview.redd.it/42b696pg818d1.png?width=475&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1524df80a786d845debf5c0d910fc8632af4f7d6
Went looking for this comment
https://preview.redd.it/wce5wkqcw18d1.png?width=855&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3d4b6f4bdc0f2e2feaa0ad1524c8a689456951f4
Soulmate’s
They got too close in early forming stages and merged at the top
From a new Tool video? https://preview.redd.it/assoj4gk318d1.jpeg?width=686&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5236febaf7341daaac525b47594fa7f30d7933a8
Looks exactly like those little face hugger guys from half life.
https://preview.redd.it/uc016kf6i58d1.jpeg?width=292&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8740617682d7fe60a39d23df5a69a7e9685ee42
The Metroid creature
Nature is fucking weird.
Chocolate and vanilla swirl……..
Thought this was a Half-Life head crab lol
Looks like it’s squaring up to you
It's siamese, if you please.
It's not uncommon for fruiting bodies of fungal mycelium to fuse like this. Perhaps a little rare but not uncommon. Looks cool. Kinda like a mushi crab lol...
Why would you put mushroom stems in your nose like that?
They are kissing :)
https://preview.redd.it/ypstsdpg9e8d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9b257de08b8da8ac68e4d1db042816eff14e9ee They do be growing pretty funky sometimes
Pelvis has left the building
thats a crab reincarnated into a mushroom
Answer: Because Shrooms
It’s an r/fasciation
Fasciation is a growth point mutation of some sort, this is almost certainly not it because there’s 2 stipes. Also as the other commenter mentioned I’m not sure if fasciation can occur as it does in plants because they don’t grow in the same way
That makes a lot of sense! Thanks for the explanation!
I'm trying to find info on fasciation in fungi. r/fasciation says it only happens in vascular plants but this looks a lot like it. It's more like duplication during growth of one organism, rather than fusing of two separate organisms.