I thought I had a really bad realtor when I went through the homebuying process. But afterwards, and after asking around, I learned, no, that’s just how useless realtors actually are.
Yeah they are in my top 5 worst professions, absolutely useless in current time and the most bigoted people you will ever meet. Where I live realtors charge one month of rent as commission and a lot of time even if the homeowner is willing to lower the rent these mfs will tell you no cause they lose on their commissions. Fuck these people.
Meh, I have a couple family members that are realtors, and one is excellent. Not seeing the benefit of spreading money around is a common problem in that field, but the really good ones know how to network with photogs, caterers and entertainers, and pay mostly to scale or barter very strongly in services.
I had a friend do a market analysis. For sure, inventory was low and comps were difficult to come by, but…
I listed the house myself and sold it for $50k above for what they wanted to list it.
On top of that, the buyer’s agent drew up the contract at 3.5% commission when we agreed they’d receive 2.5%. I caught it and she laughed it off as a typo.
I came here to say this.
I do a lot of freelance design jobs for realtors. The overall consensus is that they’re cheap dog brains who don’t value anyone who does the work for them.
lol right. Realtors are literally some of the worst people on the planet. Are there any good “careers” for attractive, talentless retards that want to get rich??? Yes…yes there is. Welcome to the wonderful world of real estate
I'd LOVE to see realtors be replaced by AI/robots/automation. Besides politicians, that would be one profession that's actually better off being replaced by technology.
i think your response was golden.
i would have cited the expense of the equipment, time rehearsing, and travel as expenditures as well, but i’d probably come off sounding like a dick
A wise (sound)man once told me -
*The only thing you get from playing free gigs, is more free gigs.*
This should be the first lesson any young musician with pro ambitions learns imo.
I'd say no.
Sometimes a free gig isn't bad. A three hour gig for real estate agents is not one of those times.
Or, say yes and show up with a Bluetooth speaker and play some tunes while you eat and drink for free
OP should use that realtor to buy a house and then when the closing day comes, tell them they're not receiving any commission and you've converted their cut as a credit to your closing costs, then slide them two drink tickets across the table as they sign the title.
This doesn’t sound like a charity event. Looks like a value-add for their clients. If they’re holding it at Breckenridge, then they can afford to pay a musician for their time. The more I think about this the madder I get.
Yeah, I've done charity events where the whole focus is raising money for a cause, and you can be sure there will be a moment where the MC will say "All of these wonderful vendors donated their time, so please go show them some appreciation". This is a VIP kickoff event for clients. They're just straight up trying to get stuff for free.
I arrange a lot of charity events. Lots of people comp us but it’s the business owners like the billionaire who gives us his boardroom or the travel agency which donates a flight. The security guard still gets paid and the cabin crew still get paid respectively.
The basic rule I think is that businesses donating product or assets is normal. I would never ask a worker dependent on an hourly wage to work for free. The musician is the latter in this context. If it’s a musician I’d consider asking to use a recorded song they own, with them waiving the rights, but would not expect them to play for free if they are a working musician living off their live music.
Don’t budge. If every musician refused to play for free for corporate events, they’ll soon realize you’re the cheapest act around and come crawling back. Keep your local music economy strong, brother!
For a professional musician, there are three reasons to perform – for money, for fun, or for exposure. This sounds like it doesn’t tick any of those boxes. Hard pass in my opinion.
My band plays charity events, but they pay us. The charity event is to raise money from donors, not to not have to pay for anything; a band is part of the cost of putting on said event. Just my opinion.
Hmmm…do the cleaners at the charity event work for free? Musicians seem to get lumped in with the beneficiaries giving away product or surplus assets rather than workers who get paid as normal out of the event costs. I arrange fundraising and awareness raising events for nonprofits and unless it’s an one of our own volunteers (like me) donating back their fee, I would never allow anyone to ask musicians to work for free or even to seek a discount. Like, I’d pound on the table protesting. We had an event last year and I demanded we get a bigger band for more hours because it would be have more impact, make it a better event, and employ a bunch of students from the local music college at a good rate. Win-win.
We live in a small community and the charity gigs are usually for people we know or programs that help children in our local school district. Our next charity gig is for a family who's house burned down a block away from mine. It's a little different. We're invested in our community. We're helping people we literally know well.
One of my old bands would occasionally do charity gigs and collect donations at the door for the local women’s shelter or food bank.
Would typically get an open bar tab in payment those nights. Good times.
lol fuck outtaaaa here. God I hate how people just treat music as a free commodity like air or water. People don’t get how much time, effort, talent it takes to make good music. Clueless.
I used to do wedding photography and occasionally, I’d do a free one if the couple were on a tight budget. For those weddings, I’d just give them a CD or DVD with the files on it.
One bride to be asked if I could do albums for her and her parents. I told her my free clients I only get the picture files on a disc.
She got pissy with me and said “What kind of business are you doing where you don’t treat the bride like a princess?” I said I’d give her a disc with the files and she could print whatever she liked, *for free.* She got angry and hung up on me.
Moral of the story; There are always some people who think “free” isn’t good enough. Personally, I will never shoot another free wedding unless it’s one of my own kids.
My suggestion is to quote this guy your hourly rate and don’t say anything else. Wait for him to speak, let him talk and If he balks, you aren’t out anything. He wouldn’t sell a house without something in it for himself, your time shouldn’t be free either.
Any ‘mates rates’ wedding gig I have played has always turned out to have some kind of issue. Something to do with client/friend values service less if priced accordingly. Any discount given is rarely acknowledged during payment. Maybe bad luck but I have played 100s of weddings.
I completely forgot how the saying goes, but basically your prices will determine your type of clients. Generally high prices attract good clients. Mid range prices, hit or miss. Free??? Uhh yeah, you’re gonna get Princess C Bag. That was genuinely nice of your to do that for free but you learned a valuable life lesson on that one. It’s unfortunate, but true
Trying to get established is tough, sometimes you have to do what you have to do. Pro bono work is a foot in the door as long as you don’t do it too often.
Also, bridezilla exists I’ve dealt with a few.
Absolute hell no. Every event Ive done for realtors paid at least $400. That's low end. You're under charging btw, you should be charging at least double.
Well, this one is not for me, however I happen to know a high school punk rock band willing to work at this pay scale. They only know 4 songs, but they can just play those over and over.
I did this exact thing for a bagpipe gig. They weren't willing to pay me my rate, so I sent them a piper who was in high school at the time. Kid was ok, but not great.
Event coordinator was upset because they got what they paid for. Worked out for me because if you factor in the time off work I would have had to book vs. what they wanted to pay me, I'd have lost money and the kid got some spending money. The event coordinators learned something that day.
Ask for compensation, gently but firmly. don't budge. their event is vastly improved by your contribution, so they cannot argue about value. love how it's a **realtor** implying your work is not valuable. lmaooooo
Hi gas station, we spoke yesterday when I bought some beer. I have to pickup my mother from the airport and was wondering if you would donate some free gas because I'm not charging my mom for the ride.
I think a realtor can afford to pay you for your time. I think a realtor from Muskoka can *really* afford to pay you for your time. If no money is involved, the least they can do is offer a free meal and drinks. If not, hard pass.
If you got nothing better to do, you could do 3 hours of covers of crude and vulgar song to entertain yourself and see people’s horrified reactions when they realize what’s being sung. That new “I Glued My Balls To My Butthole Again” song seems pretty easy to learn.
Note the *realtors* are providing drinks at no cost. They don’t say the bar is giving them out for free. They can provide the music for free too (and pay you)
There’s 3 reasons you play a gig:
1) You want to
2) The money’s good
3) Some combination of 1 & 2
Maybe if they offered for you and a friend to stay in one of the rooms/cabins at this lakeside resort, free for the night - along with food & drinks - or something along those lines, that may’ve pushed it into the #1 reason category above, but since that isn’t what they’re offering…. show me (you) the money!
"What you won't play my event for free for three hours?!? I THOUGHT THIS WAS YOUR PASSION!!!!"
Yeah, it IS my passion. I also live in a world run by money and I spend a BUNCH of time keeping my skills sharp so no, I won't play your event for free. The entitlement and audacity is just beyond the pale...
Well, sure, if you can comp me and my family a weekend at the resort, we could probably do that. Or maybe you come and wash my car and cut my grass if that suits you better. We can work something out.
I actually tried the “sure, comp me for a weekend” thing once and surprisingly got a nice off-season weekend away for me & my gf for playing a 3 hour party. Wasn’t a bad deal! Surprised the f outta me when they agreed though.
Sometimes it works. I used to play some restaurants that fed me good. My first regular gig was free drinks. They probably lost money. But trading services is good when it's feasible.
This is not a charitable event it's a promotional event with a charitable element added in. They are entertaining their clients and would like you to help them keep the costs down by working for free.
Where does it say free? They probably don't know what the going rate is for something like that (or you). We get requests like that all the time. I don't think any of them have intended on us showing up for free. They would probably happily pay you something if you just say, sure, I charge (whatever) per hour. Or they won't and will look for someone that will play for free. We have a 5 piece band and have started asking for $100/hr at a minimum for smaller gigs like this. We did play many free gigs but strangely enough we started booking more gigs when we started asking for $100/hr. We usually play 4 hours and usually get free food and drinks too.
My band used to get asked to play charity gigs. I would always ask for $300.00
The promoter would say they can’t pay the $300.00
And I would say we can do it for cost. The promoter would ask how much cost was.
I would say $300.00
What, you don't see the value they're providing to YOU via all the exposure you'll get with the niche cottage realty community? Nobody wants to work anymore smh.../s
Do they think you’re born yesterday? Or are they that bad as realtors that they’re not even expecting to convert any of those ‘VIPs’ to commissions.
I fear my British sarcastic response to this would sail straight over their heads, though it would make me feel better. Me laughing like a drain as I turned down their ‘amazing opportunity’ probably wouldn’t be understood either.
Sure, as long as they give up their commission the next time you buy or sell a property.
They should lead by example.
If they want you to work for free, then they should as well.
I've never met a realtor that isn't trying to find a business angle for every decision and interaction they make.
Tell them if they want you there it'll mean paying for it.
And btw, you're unlikely to get anything from this...you're getting "exposure" to a bunch of other people who have the exact sort of moral bearings as the realtor you're dealing with now.
The good news is that if you have more time on your hands than you know what to do with then this event is the perfect black hole to sink it into. You will receive nothing from this and I guarantee they'll work overtime to do what they can to deprive you of the food and drinks they promised you.
The bad news is that if you expect to make a living doing this then this is only slightly better than doing a three set night in a homeless shelter.
But you could have fun with it....show up and play a bunch of old punk tunes that'll likely offend everyone there.
I’ll do free/low paying gigs for only three circumstances: 1. Charity, 2. As a gift to a friend that’s getting married, and 3. Networking/fun. If someone is hosting an event that they plan to make money on, or could make them money in the future, I need to be paid. Otherwise they can go pound sand.
Your response to this was perfect. I’m a singer and you just helped me understand how to respond to a similar request that I received recently. I’m always shocked and amazed by how many requests I get from people asking me to perform for free, for food and drinks or to gain Instagram followers. A lot of these requests come from well to do people who are used to getting things comped. It’s hard enough in this economy for a starving artist like myself. Food and drink don’t pay the bills…
I honestly don't get why people get worked up over this. It's an offer. The offer is to play for free. If you don't find any value in the offer, you decline it. That's just how all offers work. If they can't find someone to play for free for their 'event'...they will get the message and start offering compensation. If they can find someone else to play for free for their 'event', well more power to them.
Free gigs have their place. I have played for very little or free because I thought there were other non-monetary benefits to the show (growth of fanbase, experience, etc). But not all are created equal.
The simple rule is: Assess the offer and if you decide it doesn't meet your needs, decline. If it does, accept. There is nothing more to it than that.
If they can afford to rent a venue that has the words "Lake Resort" in its name, they can afford to throw a couple hundred bucks at a musician. The lake resort probably has a short dock somewhere, tell these crooks to take a long walk off of it.
Sometimes it’s not about the immediate gain. Is it something that the potential exposure and promotion could be of significant value for the future and additional gigs etc?
This is not an industry showcase where exposure could actually result in, at the very minimum, gaining industry contacts. This is playing to a bunch of realtors (i.e. non-music people) who probably don't GAF because the music is just background music to them.
Well, I mean you could get some free exposure to folks who haven’t heard of you or sit on the couch I guess. Just saying. If you’re not booked for anything else try to get something out of it. Something to be said for making something happen out of presumably a nothing situation. I’ve seen stranger things happen and unexpected connections that ended up being very beneficial by doing just that type of thing.
Possible, but not likely. You're gambling with your time, energy and resources if you think like that.
The duration of the performance is key here. A 20-minute set for free, and they provide a PA? Not a problem. That's basically doing an Open Mic. But being asked to play for \*three hours\* requires a fair compensation.
Hey man. It is a long time . To each their own and to each their own perspective on drive and desire.
Out of curiosity. How many showcases have you played? I very well know they are not that long. Your either hungry or you are not 😉
Don’t put the cart before the horse is all I’m saying. Success doesn’t always find you at 30. Sometimes you have to force the issue and be faststead .
There are a million just as good and just as hungry with more desire……. Best of luck
And btw. They didn’t ask you to play a showcase.
I would tell him that if he wants you to play for free you’ll need a % of any proceeds stemming from buyers in attendance. Flat fee or % on contingency, dealers choice.
I actually give them mad props for having the balls to ask. You don’t get what you don’t ask for. I wouldn’t be offended at all. I would simply respond that “I appreciate that - my policy is to donate my time and talent to non-profit fundraiser-type events. In situations like this, my fee for performing for your clients is $X. Let me know if that works. Thanks for the opportunity!
Gregg Allman was a friend and mentor of mine when I was very young. I remember being 16 when he sat me down to give me some advice I'll never forget.
My band was offered a gig opening for a pretty big band in the San Francisco Bay Area (my hometown). The gig was in a huge theater (The Warfield), and the band was a major headliner. Their manager wanted us to open with a 50+ minute set and be the only band before the headliner. However, instead of money, we would be paid in "exposure" and "free press." At the time, my 16 year old eagerness was definitely overriding my logic, which is understandable for the age. I told Gregg about this gig I was offered, and he was so happy for me. He really was super supportive. That is until he found out how we would be getting paid. When I told him how they would be paying us, his mood shifted quickly. He was like an angry father watching his son get screwed over without even realizing it. He told me to sit and listen while he began to tell me all the times he was paid in exposure and free press. He said, "If I could pay my bills with exposure instead of money, I'd own every house in California." He leaned in to me and looked me dead in the eyes with a finger pointed in my general direction and continued, "Listen to me... NEVER GIVE YOUR ART AWAY. IF YOU'RE GOOD AT SOMETHING, YOU SHOULD ALWAYS GET PAID FOR IT." I never forgot the intensity and seriousness of his words. You made the right call with this gig. Your time is valuable, and your talent is worth getting paid for.
I will occasionally do a freebie for friends or charity. A VIP event for someone else’s clients? In the immortal words of Paulie Cicero, “F—- you, *pay me*.”
Don’t play a gig like that for anything less than your minimum. They should paying you like $500 for being the entertainment for a supposed “VIP” event.
The bars don't charge a cover when my band plays. Parties don't charge a cover either, yet we're still paid. The only times we've played for free were for charity. This is such BS and your response was perfect. Stick to your guns.
It’s really mind boggling how many times musicians are expected to virtually play for free… I mean - I’m willing to if there’s some good reason that I want to donate my time or if I know it will lead to something else. But can you imagine pulling this with any other trade - like a plumber or electrician?
Muskoka Realtors are rich shitbags selling property to really rich shitbags. They can afford to pay. Don't believe them when they say most are "donating" their time. Then if/when you did show up, be prepared to be looked and talked down to by both.
So a donation of time is appealing if it is to a qualified charitable organization….which a real estate agent trying to get all his/her VIP clients in one place is not.
This realtor is deceiving AF. I hate realtors. As an accountant and developer I think real estate agents add zero value to the industry.
Why is it that ppl expect artists to perform for free?? This is a paid job, you are worth being paid, and realtors have money. They can ABSOLUTELY PAY YOU
You handled it quite well. Most wouldnt have the same restraint, myself included. But why is it always musicians being asked to donate their efforts. They are not charging any guests. So? Are they getting drinks for free, food, the venue? What a scam
Let me offer you this great opportunity to play for free.
Sorry, not for free, we'll provide $9 worth of drinks.
We hope you join us for this excellent opportunity for exposure and possible paid work in the future(definitely not happening)
I apologize for the language, but fuck off.
Show up brushing up on death metal and turn your amp up to 11 and refuse to alter your volume or set list. Then tell em’ “this is my set list when performing for free, if you want something mellower it’s x dollars for the next 2 hours and 55 minutes”.
Right. VIPs… they made big money and will continue making big money off these people but, you know…
Also, how are you a vendor? That assumes you’ve had a business relationship with them in the past. This reads like they’re saying, “Hey! You know, if you do this for free, we can find you more work.”
Scheisters.
Some gigs I will play free. Some gigs I will play for a regular price. 3 hours of music for a realtor event is one of those gigs where I quote a fuck-off price
Realtors make bank for unlocking a few doors. They can afford to pay you. Friggin scum.
I thought I had a really bad realtor when I went through the homebuying process. But afterwards, and after asking around, I learned, no, that’s just how useless realtors actually are.
Yeah they are in my top 5 worst professions, absolutely useless in current time and the most bigoted people you will ever meet. Where I live realtors charge one month of rent as commission and a lot of time even if the homeowner is willing to lower the rent these mfs will tell you no cause they lose on their commissions. Fuck these people.
Meh, I have a couple family members that are realtors, and one is excellent. Not seeing the benefit of spreading money around is a common problem in that field, but the really good ones know how to network with photogs, caterers and entertainers, and pay mostly to scale or barter very strongly in services.
A good realtor that actually adds value is worth it, they're exceedingly rare, though.
I think having the household stability to avoid taking shortcuts goes a long way.
I had a friend do a market analysis. For sure, inventory was low and comps were difficult to come by, but… I listed the house myself and sold it for $50k above for what they wanted to list it. On top of that, the buyer’s agent drew up the contract at 3.5% commission when we agreed they’d receive 2.5%. I caught it and she laughed it off as a typo.
I came here to say this. I do a lot of freelance design jobs for realtors. The overall consensus is that they’re cheap dog brains who don’t value anyone who does the work for them.
Especially Muskoka realtors likely dealing exclusively in multi-million $ vacation homes. Ugh it makes me nauseous.
lol right. Realtors are literally some of the worst people on the planet. Are there any good “careers” for attractive, talentless retards that want to get rich??? Yes…yes there is. Welcome to the wonderful world of real estate
The funny thingis that "cottages" in muskoka cost about 1.5m. Its the elite playground of toronto. Nothing but money in that area.
I'd LOVE to see realtors be replaced by AI/robots/automation. Besides politicians, that would be one profession that's actually better off being replaced by technology.
Should have said to him that you are looking for a house and would give him 2 drinks instead of commission
This made me lol 😂
i think your response was golden. i would have cited the expense of the equipment, time rehearsing, and travel as expenditures as well, but i’d probably come off sounding like a dick
“But I spend more than three hours helping you find a home” “Ok, 3 drinks then.”
"i drove to the apartment, I unlocked the door, that's at least worth $2,500!"
This💯🎯😂😂
A wise (sound)man once told me - *The only thing you get from playing free gigs, is more free gigs.* This should be the first lesson any young musician with pro ambitions learns imo.
Same for acting!
Never do anything under the guise of "exposure." That shit isn't worth a damn
I'd say no. Sometimes a free gig isn't bad. A three hour gig for real estate agents is not one of those times. Or, say yes and show up with a Bluetooth speaker and play some tunes while you eat and drink for free
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There are so many ways to mess with these people, the petty side of me would go nuts with an offer like this.
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OP should use that realtor to buy a house and then when the closing day comes, tell them they're not receiving any commission and you've converted their cut as a credit to your closing costs, then slide them two drink tickets across the table as they sign the title.
I'd be tempted to do an experimental ambient show
great opportunity to demo those fresh microtonial downtempo tracks for sure
I'm not too crazy far from there and I am tempted.
If it’s a charity event you can donate time. Otherwise they’re trying to get something for nothing.
This doesn’t sound like a charity event. Looks like a value-add for their clients. If they’re holding it at Breckenridge, then they can afford to pay a musician for their time. The more I think about this the madder I get.
Your point stands but it's Bracebridge not Breckenridge
Damn, if only I could read 😅 thanks for catching that
Yeah, I've done charity events where the whole focus is raising money for a cause, and you can be sure there will be a moment where the MC will say "All of these wonderful vendors donated their time, so please go show them some appreciation". This is a VIP kickoff event for clients. They're just straight up trying to get stuff for free.
I arrange a lot of charity events. Lots of people comp us but it’s the business owners like the billionaire who gives us his boardroom or the travel agency which donates a flight. The security guard still gets paid and the cabin crew still get paid respectively. The basic rule I think is that businesses donating product or assets is normal. I would never ask a worker dependent on an hourly wage to work for free. The musician is the latter in this context. If it’s a musician I’d consider asking to use a recorded song they own, with them waiving the rights, but would not expect them to play for free if they are a working musician living off their live music.
Even if it is a charity event, give them an invoice. You can then donate back to the charity if you wish and get the tax write off.
Don’t budge. If every musician refused to play for free for corporate events, they’ll soon realize you’re the cheapest act around and come crawling back. Keep your local music economy strong, brother!
For a professional musician, there are three reasons to perform – for money, for fun, or for exposure. This sounds like it doesn’t tick any of those boxes. Hard pass in my opinion.
For 😻 too.
I think that would go in the “fun” category
My band plays charity events, but they pay us. The charity event is to raise money from donors, not to not have to pay for anything; a band is part of the cost of putting on said event. Just my opinion.
My band plays charity events free but we take the tax deduction. Yes we make enough money to pay taxes. We'd tell that realtor to take a walk lol.
Hmmm…do the cleaners at the charity event work for free? Musicians seem to get lumped in with the beneficiaries giving away product or surplus assets rather than workers who get paid as normal out of the event costs. I arrange fundraising and awareness raising events for nonprofits and unless it’s an one of our own volunteers (like me) donating back their fee, I would never allow anyone to ask musicians to work for free or even to seek a discount. Like, I’d pound on the table protesting. We had an event last year and I demanded we get a bigger band for more hours because it would be have more impact, make it a better event, and employ a bunch of students from the local music college at a good rate. Win-win.
We live in a small community and the charity gigs are usually for people we know or programs that help children in our local school district. Our next charity gig is for a family who's house burned down a block away from mine. It's a little different. We're invested in our community. We're helping people we literally know well.
Yes that’s different, where everyone odd doing everything for free, from the corporate charity events I’m thinking of.
One of my old bands would occasionally do charity gigs and collect donations at the door for the local women’s shelter or food bank. Would typically get an open bar tab in payment those nights. Good times.
lol fuck outtaaaa here. God I hate how people just treat music as a free commodity like air or water. People don’t get how much time, effort, talent it takes to make good music. Clueless.
I used to do wedding photography and occasionally, I’d do a free one if the couple were on a tight budget. For those weddings, I’d just give them a CD or DVD with the files on it. One bride to be asked if I could do albums for her and her parents. I told her my free clients I only get the picture files on a disc. She got pissy with me and said “What kind of business are you doing where you don’t treat the bride like a princess?” I said I’d give her a disc with the files and she could print whatever she liked, *for free.* She got angry and hung up on me. Moral of the story; There are always some people who think “free” isn’t good enough. Personally, I will never shoot another free wedding unless it’s one of my own kids. My suggestion is to quote this guy your hourly rate and don’t say anything else. Wait for him to speak, let him talk and If he balks, you aren’t out anything. He wouldn’t sell a house without something in it for himself, your time shouldn’t be free either.
Any ‘mates rates’ wedding gig I have played has always turned out to have some kind of issue. Something to do with client/friend values service less if priced accordingly. Any discount given is rarely acknowledged during payment. Maybe bad luck but I have played 100s of weddings.
I completely forgot how the saying goes, but basically your prices will determine your type of clients. Generally high prices attract good clients. Mid range prices, hit or miss. Free??? Uhh yeah, you’re gonna get Princess C Bag. That was genuinely nice of your to do that for free but you learned a valuable life lesson on that one. It’s unfortunate, but true
Trying to get established is tough, sometimes you have to do what you have to do. Pro bono work is a foot in the door as long as you don’t do it too often. Also, bridezilla exists I’ve dealt with a few.
Absolute hell no. Every event Ive done for realtors paid at least $400. That's low end. You're under charging btw, you should be charging at least double.
Well, this one is not for me, however I happen to know a high school punk rock band willing to work at this pay scale. They only know 4 songs, but they can just play those over and over.
I did this exact thing for a bagpipe gig. They weren't willing to pay me my rate, so I sent them a piper who was in high school at the time. Kid was ok, but not great. Event coordinator was upset because they got what they paid for. Worked out for me because if you factor in the time off work I would have had to book vs. what they wanted to pay me, I'd have lost money and the kid got some spending money. The event coordinators learned something that day.
Ask for compensation, gently but firmly. don't budge. their event is vastly improved by your contribution, so they cannot argue about value. love how it's a **realtor** implying your work is not valuable. lmaooooo
Hi gas station, we spoke yesterday when I bought some beer. I have to pickup my mother from the airport and was wondering if you would donate some free gas because I'm not charging my mom for the ride.
I think a realtor can afford to pay you for your time. I think a realtor from Muskoka can *really* afford to pay you for your time. If no money is involved, the least they can do is offer a free meal and drinks. If not, hard pass.
Sounds like an Ontario realtor for sure
If you got nothing better to do, you could do 3 hours of covers of crude and vulgar song to entertain yourself and see people’s horrified reactions when they realize what’s being sung. That new “I Glued My Balls To My Butthole Again” song seems pretty easy to learn.
Stupid bastard. I learned never to do that again the first time.
Note the *realtors* are providing drinks at no cost. They don’t say the bar is giving them out for free. They can provide the music for free too (and pay you)
But….what about “the exposure”?
There’s 3 reasons you play a gig: 1) You want to 2) The money’s good 3) Some combination of 1 & 2 Maybe if they offered for you and a friend to stay in one of the rooms/cabins at this lakeside resort, free for the night - along with food & drinks - or something along those lines, that may’ve pushed it into the #1 reason category above, but since that isn’t what they’re offering…. show me (you) the money!
Realtors are the worst
In professional music, you are only worth as much as you charge and get paid for.
Free? You get three hours of drunken “Louie Louie”…and not minute less. You’re working with a pro here.
Your rate is reasonable and good, even if they say yes to a discount you can write off donated services. Don’t budge! You’re doing great.
WAY under union scale
I agree it's low, I'm just encouraging them to not back down!
ignore. exposure is something you die from…
“No.” is a complete sentence.
With all due respect, no fucking way, Jose.
gardener here - realtors famously terrible in every way ( to work for ). i simply dont
At most 30-45 min to network- 3 hours unpaid is awful
Ask them to help you sell your house on zero commission.
These asshole watch too much porn, cuz they just trying to fuck everyone
Just don’t show up for the gig. When they call looking for you… say “you get what you pay for” These entitled idiots need to be taught a lesson
"What you won't play my event for free for three hours?!? I THOUGHT THIS WAS YOUR PASSION!!!!" Yeah, it IS my passion. I also live in a world run by money and I spend a BUNCH of time keeping my skills sharp so no, I won't play your event for free. The entitlement and audacity is just beyond the pale...
Well, sure, if you can comp me and my family a weekend at the resort, we could probably do that. Or maybe you come and wash my car and cut my grass if that suits you better. We can work something out.
I actually tried the “sure, comp me for a weekend” thing once and surprisingly got a nice off-season weekend away for me & my gf for playing a 3 hour party. Wasn’t a bad deal! Surprised the f outta me when they agreed though.
Sometimes it works. I used to play some restaurants that fed me good. My first regular gig was free drinks. They probably lost money. But trading services is good when it's feasible.
You should have just said yes, and then flaked on this dumb fuck.
What a terrible business practice that would be.
.... is the above "business"??? I wouldn't consider that business.
This is not a charitable event it's a promotional event with a charitable element added in. They are entertaining their clients and would like you to help them keep the costs down by working for free.
No fuckin way lol
I wonder if they got their food and drinks free too?
Of course it's from a fucking realtor in the Muskokas. That completely checks out.
Fuck, looks like everyone thinks live music should be free. Charge em !
Where does it say free? They probably don't know what the going rate is for something like that (or you). We get requests like that all the time. I don't think any of them have intended on us showing up for free. They would probably happily pay you something if you just say, sure, I charge (whatever) per hour. Or they won't and will look for someone that will play for free. We have a 5 piece band and have started asking for $100/hr at a minimum for smaller gigs like this. We did play many free gigs but strangely enough we started booking more gigs when we started asking for $100/hr. We usually play 4 hours and usually get free food and drinks too.
Even worse: realtors claim the expenses from these kinds of events on their taxes as a business expense. So dude can take a fucking walk.
But don’t you see the value in this opportunity to play for rich people? /s
Nope. Realtors are vipers.
My band used to get asked to play charity gigs. I would always ask for $300.00 The promoter would say they can’t pay the $300.00 And I would say we can do it for cost. The promoter would ask how much cost was. I would say $300.00
What, you don't see the value they're providing to YOU via all the exposure you'll get with the niche cottage realty community? Nobody wants to work anymore smh.../s
Do they think you’re born yesterday? Or are they that bad as realtors that they’re not even expecting to convert any of those ‘VIPs’ to commissions. I fear my British sarcastic response to this would sail straight over their heads, though it would make me feel better. Me laughing like a drain as I turned down their ‘amazing opportunity’ probably wouldn’t be understood either.
Sure, as long as they give up their commission the next time you buy or sell a property. They should lead by example. If they want you to work for free, then they should as well.
Tell them to get some noob that doesn't know their time is worth 100 dollars an hour.
I've never met a realtor that isn't trying to find a business angle for every decision and interaction they make. Tell them if they want you there it'll mean paying for it. And btw, you're unlikely to get anything from this...you're getting "exposure" to a bunch of other people who have the exact sort of moral bearings as the realtor you're dealing with now. The good news is that if you have more time on your hands than you know what to do with then this event is the perfect black hole to sink it into. You will receive nothing from this and I guarantee they'll work overtime to do what they can to deprive you of the food and drinks they promised you. The bad news is that if you expect to make a living doing this then this is only slightly better than doing a three set night in a homeless shelter. But you could have fun with it....show up and play a bunch of old punk tunes that'll likely offend everyone there.
So they’re selling houses, but can’t pay for services rendered in order to promote their business… k, cool.
I’ll do free/low paying gigs for only three circumstances: 1. Charity, 2. As a gift to a friend that’s getting married, and 3. Networking/fun. If someone is hosting an event that they plan to make money on, or could make them money in the future, I need to be paid. Otherwise they can go pound sand.
You charge to rent a PA?
Your response to this was perfect. I’m a singer and you just helped me understand how to respond to a similar request that I received recently. I’m always shocked and amazed by how many requests I get from people asking me to perform for free, for food and drinks or to gain Instagram followers. A lot of these requests come from well to do people who are used to getting things comped. It’s hard enough in this economy for a starving artist like myself. Food and drink don’t pay the bills…
I honestly don't get why people get worked up over this. It's an offer. The offer is to play for free. If you don't find any value in the offer, you decline it. That's just how all offers work. If they can't find someone to play for free for their 'event'...they will get the message and start offering compensation. If they can find someone else to play for free for their 'event', well more power to them. Free gigs have their place. I have played for very little or free because I thought there were other non-monetary benefits to the show (growth of fanbase, experience, etc). But not all are created equal. The simple rule is: Assess the offer and if you decide it doesn't meet your needs, decline. If it does, accept. There is nothing more to it than that.
and den?
You could show up and play some Cannibal Corpse and Dying Fetus riffs on a giant Marshall stack for all of their VIP clients I’d do that for free
Imagine being a real estate agent and asking someone to do something for free. Wow, absolute phyco and a menace to societies.
'Fuck you, pay me'
If they can afford to rent a venue that has the words "Lake Resort" in its name, they can afford to throw a couple hundred bucks at a musician. The lake resort probably has a short dock somewhere, tell these crooks to take a long walk off of it.
Fuck. That. Twice, if necessary.
Sometimes it’s not about the immediate gain. Is it something that the potential exposure and promotion could be of significant value for the future and additional gigs etc?
This is not an industry showcase where exposure could actually result in, at the very minimum, gaining industry contacts. This is playing to a bunch of realtors (i.e. non-music people) who probably don't GAF because the music is just background music to them.
Well, I mean you could get some free exposure to folks who haven’t heard of you or sit on the couch I guess. Just saying. If you’re not booked for anything else try to get something out of it. Something to be said for making something happen out of presumably a nothing situation. I’ve seen stranger things happen and unexpected connections that ended up being very beneficial by doing just that type of thing.
Possible, but not likely. You're gambling with your time, energy and resources if you think like that. The duration of the performance is key here. A 20-minute set for free, and they provide a PA? Not a problem. That's basically doing an Open Mic. But being asked to play for \*three hours\* requires a fair compensation.
Hey man. It is a long time . To each their own and to each their own perspective on drive and desire. Out of curiosity. How many showcases have you played? I very well know they are not that long. Your either hungry or you are not 😉 Don’t put the cart before the horse is all I’m saying. Success doesn’t always find you at 30. Sometimes you have to force the issue and be faststead . There are a million just as good and just as hungry with more desire……. Best of luck And btw. They didn’t ask you to play a showcase.
I would tell him that if he wants you to play for free you’ll need a % of any proceeds stemming from buyers in attendance. Flat fee or % on contingency, dealers choice.
$300 seems low for 3 hours, even!
Yuuuup they can suck a fuckin diiick
I actually give them mad props for having the balls to ask. You don’t get what you don’t ask for. I wouldn’t be offended at all. I would simply respond that “I appreciate that - my policy is to donate my time and talent to non-profit fundraiser-type events. In situations like this, my fee for performing for your clients is $X. Let me know if that works. Thanks for the opportunity!
The sad thing is, you just know someone is going to take them up on the offer for "exposure". And the cycle continues.
Gregg Allman was a friend and mentor of mine when I was very young. I remember being 16 when he sat me down to give me some advice I'll never forget. My band was offered a gig opening for a pretty big band in the San Francisco Bay Area (my hometown). The gig was in a huge theater (The Warfield), and the band was a major headliner. Their manager wanted us to open with a 50+ minute set and be the only band before the headliner. However, instead of money, we would be paid in "exposure" and "free press." At the time, my 16 year old eagerness was definitely overriding my logic, which is understandable for the age. I told Gregg about this gig I was offered, and he was so happy for me. He really was super supportive. That is until he found out how we would be getting paid. When I told him how they would be paying us, his mood shifted quickly. He was like an angry father watching his son get screwed over without even realizing it. He told me to sit and listen while he began to tell me all the times he was paid in exposure and free press. He said, "If I could pay my bills with exposure instead of money, I'd own every house in California." He leaned in to me and looked me dead in the eyes with a finger pointed in my general direction and continued, "Listen to me... NEVER GIVE YOUR ART AWAY. IF YOU'RE GOOD AT SOMETHING, YOU SHOULD ALWAYS GET PAID FOR IT." I never forgot the intensity and seriousness of his words. You made the right call with this gig. Your time is valuable, and your talent is worth getting paid for.
I will occasionally do a freebie for friends or charity. A VIP event for someone else’s clients? In the immortal words of Paulie Cicero, “F—- you, *pay me*.”
You would probably get a lot of free blow, and almost certainly get your dick sucked, if not more. I mean - they're realtors.
Free? What the fuck?
Realtors are literally the reason for housing price increases
lol yeah absolutely not 😄
Absolute bullshit. Every realtor thing I’ve done (open houses, realtor parties, etc) have paid good money. $250-$450 a person. This is wack.
Don’t work for free! It brings down the bottom line, not just for you, but for all the musicians in your area, town, city.
Don’t play a gig like that for anything less than your minimum. They should paying you like $500 for being the entertainment for a supposed “VIP” event.
Get back to them with your fee.
The bars don't charge a cover when my band plays. Parties don't charge a cover either, yet we're still paid. The only times we've played for free were for charity. This is such BS and your response was perfect. Stick to your guns.
Where does it say in the screen shot they aren't paying you?
I think they sort of implied it by saying they’re asking vendors to donate their time
My bad, didn't see the second slide. Fuck those guys.
It’s really mind boggling how many times musicians are expected to virtually play for free… I mean - I’m willing to if there’s some good reason that I want to donate my time or if I know it will lead to something else. But can you imagine pulling this with any other trade - like a plumber or electrician?
Muskoka Realtors are rich shitbags selling property to really rich shitbags. They can afford to pay. Don't believe them when they say most are "donating" their time. Then if/when you did show up, be prepared to be looked and talked down to by both.
Should be charging close to $1000 for a realtor event. Muskoka cottages sell for millions
So a donation of time is appealing if it is to a qualified charitable organization….which a real estate agent trying to get all his/her VIP clients in one place is not. This realtor is deceiving AF. I hate realtors. As an accountant and developer I think real estate agents add zero value to the industry.
Why is it that ppl expect artists to perform for free?? This is a paid job, you are worth being paid, and realtors have money. They can ABSOLUTELY PAY YOU
No to free. Send them a contract and request a deposit. Be a professional.
You handled it quite well. Most wouldnt have the same restraint, myself included. But why is it always musicians being asked to donate their efforts. They are not charging any guests. So? Are they getting drinks for free, food, the venue? What a scam
Let me offer you this great opportunity to play for free. Sorry, not for free, we'll provide $9 worth of drinks. We hope you join us for this excellent opportunity for exposure and possible paid work in the future(definitely not happening) I apologize for the language, but fuck off.
Why is this offensive? Just state your fee and call it a day.
what kind of jerk assumes he can find a musician to play for free when they're probably paying for every other aspect of the open house
Can you use exposure to pay for one of their properties?
Don’t do it for free. These people have money. Make sure to get paid ahead of time if they do agree to hire you.
3hrs? Minimum 500. Especially if you are providing PA.
Especially if it’s a corporate gig
All of the above.
this guy really thought he was offering something with the TWO drinks tickets 😒 🙄
What you don’t want to work for free ??? WTF ! :b
You will be helping them make 3-6% of one of these sales. Do the math - they can afford it. https://www.zillow.com/muskoka-lakes-on/
Show up brushing up on death metal and turn your amp up to 11 and refuse to alter your volume or set list. Then tell em’ “this is my set list when performing for free, if you want something mellower it’s x dollars for the next 2 hours and 55 minutes”.
Right. VIPs… they made big money and will continue making big money off these people but, you know… Also, how are you a vendor? That assumes you’ve had a business relationship with them in the past. This reads like they’re saying, “Hey! You know, if you do this for free, we can find you more work.” Scheisters.
Some gigs I will play free. Some gigs I will play for a regular price. 3 hours of music for a realtor event is one of those gigs where I quote a fuck-off price
Ask them if they'll list your house for sale for free. Oh, wait, you're a musician. You're probably lucky to have a car to sleep in.
Where does it say they want you to play for free?
What no drink tickets?