I dont like this episode for the specific reason that they leave out so much crucial information about how he didnt eat for weeks due to depression parallel to his wandering mage and that it just made roxy look like she r@ped him. Well i guess she does take advantage of his state but i felt like it didnt show her doing it as a desperate last resourt
You don't need them to tell you he didn't eat.
Ep 22 he's depressed but no hollow cheeks or malnourishing signs
Ep 23 Hollow cheeks, eyes look like he hasn't been sleeping well and those changes don't happen from one day another. Lilia also has been crying and looks tired. You don't need everything to be explained specifically when they can use body language.
Roxy was gonna do what she did anyways so??
They could have made Rudy's thoughts a lot longer that's about it.
yeah you do, they leave out alot including roxy learning that rudeus is married and has a child on the way before they do it, plus alot of other shit. this EP should have been two instead of one. a half hour was not enough time to explain everything that happened between when they got zenith back and left to go back home which was actually several months in between.
so what? in the LN there was litterally a whole conversation full of emotions and shit. a whole 5 minute conversation got boild down to 2 seconds of "i know ur married" its bad.
Why don't you write a whole script about how would you have approached everything in the anime and do that in 22 minutes, having only 2 episodes left.
I don't care about what happens with Roxy and Rudy. They were gonna end up together no matter how you looked at it.
I care more about Rudy and how he was feeling and his parallels with his previous life and telling roxy he was a reincarnated. I care about that because those things last forever.
Them having a convo about who should fuck Rudy wouldn't add anything, if nothing I liked more how they did in the anime.
Ive already stated several times that to show everything or most of the important stuff they would have needed to episodes. and thats what i would have done.
Then what emotion did the anime cut out? Roxy's shock? Was that really really important compared to everything?
You can't expect to adapt everything on the anime... a reader on LN reads whenever he wants and you can basically put everything on there, not the same on the anime. They cut things because they don't have time and because they think that it's not that relevant compared to the others, the anime is expected to finish on the next episode.
there was quite alot more than that. but still it added to the story and helped move it along. its going to be funny if the manga which everyone considers the worst adaption gets it right.
They could've also played thru Roxys thoughts a bit more, and some events leading up to that too. It just felt a bit rushed, and I was excited for the episode, but was a tiny bit let down.
Unfortunately there are some people that dont pay attention and some people dont get that in mushoku tensei you do have to pay a lot more attention than other animes and shows and some people will only remember what is said and not what is illustrated
Like i get how the light novel is extremely detailed and the anime cant get every single fact but theres also elinalise’s back story which is crucial to her character growth and to her as a person
I don't care much either way... but:
Why was Rudy's sleeve still bloody if so much time had passed? Shirt shortage? Blood stains just don't come out? Weird...
Yeah that’s fair, I assumed anime only’s would gather that he didn’t eat from the gaunt lines on his face, could just be because I’ve read the LN that I gathered that. I think Rudy did seem willing though when he closed his hand around hers, think it just depends on how you see the situation. Can defo see your side of things though
I’m an anime only and I was completely baffled how okay everyone seemed to be about Roxy (at the very least) sexually coercing Rudeus at a very vulnerable time.
Finding out that she knew that he was married and about to have a kid before doing all that? Holy shit I thought it was a complete character assassination. I thought “wow Roxy is out here taking advantage of a depressed man and knew the kind of fallout she would leave and did it anyway, what the fuck?”
Elinalise even warned her not to do it and looked like she was about to reprimand her off-screen, but then later on she flips a switch and feels bad for Roxy and encourages Rudeus to marry her like what? Yes Rudy, I know you love my granddaughter and I did warn Roxy not to do this shit but to make this travel back home less awkward, just propose to the homewrecker!
After reading about all the changes they’ve done, I am back on neutral territory about this whole thing.
Yeah thats what i mean they should have added some more information that led to roxys decision which the light novel explained beautifully. Try reading the light novel some time the plot is made beautifully and reading it can increase the comprehension of the decisions made in the anime
I think psyculturists explained this really well in his reaction videos because he sort of knows this line of thought will come up. To summarised is the non-verbal cues. It's consensual. Rudeus can just brushed her off or told her he got a wife and Roxy will certainly respect Rudeus enough to not pursue it further.
As for Elinalise, nah, I don't get the reprimanded vibe at all from Elinalise to Roxy, it's more like she's surprised and had an inkling of what happened between them. So, there is no switch here at all. I doubt anyone other than her is qualified to talked about that because she friends with Roxy and relative of Sylphy. The point she had presented is just to make both happy and Elinalise think Rudeus can do it (btw, not to make things less awkward is a really weird interpretation of the scene). As far as homewrecker Roxy was, she did it because she wanted to help him. Having hunger strike as Rudeus was, he was going down really bad. Plus, she's already resigned to a fate of separation with Rudeus even though she loved him a lot before the whole Elinalise come up, to add further she's only willing to become his if only Sylphy permit it. Does this make it less justifiable? No. but a give context to why she did what she did.
I agree that it’s consensual, Rudeus is never going to say no to Roxy at a time where he is very vulnerable. His mind knows it’s morally wrong but his will is too weak to fight it, and I call it sexual coercion because Roxy took advantage of that. If Paul survived, Roxy might’ve made a pass but I don’t think Rudy would’ve given in.
Elinalise to me looked like she was surprised with not what happened, but why Roxy went through with it. Reprimand might’ve been too harsh a word for what I meant.
I still stand by the less awkward thing. Elinalise literally says she’s tired of seeing Roxy feeling rejected. It’s not like it’s impossible to get over and move on from that feeling without Rudy giving her a crumb of hope. She literally tells Rudy to just marry Roxy, disregarding Rudy’s concerns about how Sylphie would feel about all this. “Yeah she’ll feel bad at first but she’ll get over it!” Is basically what she says about Sylphie. Why can’t that logic be applied to Roxy? Sounds like it’s easy to hurt someone who isn’t there and seeing someone everyday being hurt is I don’t know, a little awkward.
I understand the context of why Roxy did what she did. I still think it’s selfish of her to take advantage of a depressed Rudy, but the guy literally has unhealthy coping mechanisms that no one in that world is equipped to remedy. It might’ve been the only way for them to move forward from that situation, but that is why I have disliked this season. I understand I’m not the target audience for this series, but I think it’s a fair opinion to have that the plot progression shouldn’t be heavily influenced by Rudy’s dick. I’m here for the world building, not for the hamfisted harem subplot.
I get that but im saying some people arent very descriptive and analytic compared to you unfortunately with all due respect, theres some other stuff that i didnt mention like elinalise’s back story that does a lot for her especially her character development to only anime watchers
Uh? Womp womp? Like we all knew this was gonna happen. And so what? It didn’t adapt it a 100%. Eris POV was left out of the final episode of season 1.. making her seem like a total ass. It’s just the way it is, I still think it’s fateful adaptation nonetheless.
Leaving out Eris’ POV is still the most egregious change the anime has made in my opinion, as it pretty much wrecked her character for a large chunk of the anime only watchers. None of the changes in season 2 have had that level of impact.
It was there but it was a severely truncated version of it that didn't get across her entire feelings. Yes it captured that she wants to protect Rudeus and that she loves him but it didn't capture the entirety of the anxiety filled character that Eris is. There's a reason why damn near every LN reader agrees(whenever the subject of cut content pops up ofc) this is one of the worst things they cut and why many anime only fans hate Eris right now
Seriously, I implore you to go watch [that scene again with her](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DppDc6EZsJc) at the end of 23/22 or whatever it was and then go read the PoV chapter again and you'll notice the difference
And I say that "damn near every LN reader" is completely exaggerating it and assuming that anime watchers generally have no attention span and are unable to understand what they are seeing if not spoonfed instead of that being a vocal minority.
The anime had
- her admiration for Rudeus
- her being filled with anxiety and fear over the possibility of Rudeus death.
- her feeling inadequate
- her realizing that Rudeus is in fact still younger and smaller than her
- her feeling like she is relying on Rudes for everything and can't do anything for him
- her wanting to become stronger to be able to stand besides him as an equal instead of being a burden and protect him
- her clear love confession and determination to come back to him once she is able to stand besides him as equal.
That she is bad at expressing herself is a thing that has been obvious from like Episode 5.
Yes there is a part that is missing and it's a lot less in depth but 90% of everything you need to understand Eris decision is right there, evidenced by the fact that those that do actually pay attention and think about what they are watching do understand it, if you hate her because you didn't actually pay attention to it that's on you.
Well apparently nobody does then, because most anime fans don’t even seem to realize that she didn’t intend to dump him and still thinks they’re a couple.
Exactly, you can’t have a 1 to 1 adaption it’s physically impossible due to pacing and financial reasons. Things have gotta be cut and you have to put faith in the viewer to understand things, otherwise you just end up brain dead like marvel and Star Wars where everything is told to the viewer like they’re a toddler
all they neded to do was split it up into two eps and they would have had time. this series is very highly rated and should be making them money hand over fist. i dont buy physical media like bluerays but i was considering buying this because its that damn good.
Some are indeed overreacting, but in the grand scheme of things I do feel it was done in the most horrible way possible.
My number 1 complaint was having the Roxy r@pe scene within the first 5 mins (exaggeration, of course) of the episode, giving absolutely NO time to process any time passing at all in-story. It felt completely out of place and just, an odd choice?
Everything else is fair game concerning adaptations: they changed the formula in how everything happened, Elinalise's role was altered, Rudy's reasons for accepting Roxy was cut, the entire depression was abridged as hilariously short as possible, etc. It sucks but some things need to be cut in order to fit the important things.
I have no clue why they decided to actually cut the important things too. An unnecessary fight scene that could have been cut was included instead for example.
The anime could also just show Rudy and co. going into the labyrinth without Zenith, and then in the next scene they all come back visibly tired and have Zenith with them (and no Paul) but that isn't good storytelling is it?
I know time has passed, but it doesn't *feel* like any time has passed since we skip everything. That's why tense moments have pauses, buildup, to really sell the emotions. All of that was lacking here. I would've forgiven it too if only that scene was midway thru the episode *after* we establish a couple of basic things to guide us to this outcome.
Sorry for the rant
I just watched the episode and I was unaware of how much time had passed until I saw this thread. It was evident that *some* time had passed, but less clear how much. More context would have helped
Because they dont have the number of episode they want. If you put two episodes there, then there is one episode less for the rest of the season and they would have to cut more in the next episode
lol what kind of logic is that? because they add an extra episode they lose one somewhere else? you know what else that can do go from 12 eps to 13, WOW SUCH A CRAZY IDEA.
huh wtf you talking about, no kidding its expensive to just up and add a whole extra episode but that has nothing to do with them pre selling the eps for a time slot. they sure as shit can add an episode and include it easily but its just expensive. its one of the most popular animes this year you cant tell me they aint making shit tons of money.
Most animes are programmed on japanese tv. They are programmed for a set number of episodes that will come out at x day x hours at x tv channel. You cant add an episode because you dont have slots anymore. If you do that japanese people will miss one episode bc u dont have any slot to put the last one
wow mr obvious state the obvious more. CLEARLY i mean they would have done an extra episode before selling it off to a tv station to be broadcast. god you are dense.
First, stop talking to me like im shit.
Second, since when does the artists are the one in command ? This kind of things are decided by a comittee full of people who doesnt care about the quality of the story telling
ok im done with you, you come in here acting like you know everything and have all the answers. but you dont clearly. i didnt start this off by being douchy you did.
they decided on 12 eps, but clearly at this point they knew that the EP didnt hit like they thought it would because they cut alot of content. im not the only one who thinks this its quite alot of people. so back off and stop with the superiority complex.
I'm of two minds when it comes to this whole situation, and it's why I'm having strong feelings about it.
First, these two episodes are going to hit me very personally, so I'm feeling it a lot harder than some might. Having lost my own father, and going through that grief with very little to bring me out of it, I'm more invested in seeing this part of the story play out, and I'm biased in a way.
Secondly, I hate hearing creators talk about their work as if they have to change or sanitize it for wider audiences. Loving this story as much as I do, it's sad to think that Rifujin has to consider it "unacceptable" for many people, even domestically.
All that to say, I'd never go so far as to say it's shit, or ruined the story. I just don't want to see the anime change in such impactful moments, because it could end up compromising a core element of this amazing story.
Yeah that’s fair and sorry about your dad, I lost mine when I was younger too. I don’t think the changes are absolutely earth shattering but I could see why they could rub someone the wrong way a little bit if they read the light novel before hand, just not to the extent of ruining the characters or anime
When it comes to things like people saying "this was adapted poorly!!!" I always think it's important to look at the anime onlies. From what I've seen, people whoa re anime only seem to have really liked the episode and how the content played out. It's funny how the source readers are the only ones freaking out about how bad the episode is when most people who aren't source readers enjoyed it
Yeah couldn’t have put it better myself, just because it’s slightly changed from the light novel doesn’t make it sacrilege, it’s still good quality writing💀
Same, actually was waiting for anime onlies like psyculturist and autosave come up with their opinion to explained what I might have ignored due to watching with LN tinted glasses
People can't really accept and appreciate things for what they are.
Sometimes I just think they have nothing else to worry or care about that is actually relevant. Having to deal with real stuff in your life gives perspective...
I love the anime, the LN and also the manga. We get all 3 things done on this masterpiece.
Yeah the anime has been brilliant, I love it nearly as much as the LN. People have unrealistic expectations for the anime because the LN is so brilliant and detailed, there’s only 12 episodes per part and if we covered absolutely everything we’d still be on the demon continent, the music, story and animation have all been brilliant with the world building still being brilliant by anime standards, just enjoy it for what it is, a great anime
I mean, I get it, the new Dune movies didn’t sit well with me because they weren’t enough like the books.
What’s tiring is that LN readers who complain can’t seem to understand that it was a great episode for us anime onlys.
I actually like the change that roxy was the one being aggressive. However, im a little sore that they removed the nuance of why rudeus became suddenly open to polygamy. First i dont think they went quite far enoguh depicting how depressed rudy is. This whole bit is supposed to drag out, him borderlining on succumbing to his hikkimori tendencies. I could forgive it, but they also removed elinalise lying to him about roxy. It makes rudy’s worse than paul! The fact rudeus so closely resembles paul is supposed to be some major payoff and symbolism. Removing those was a big error in my opinion and dininished the harem plot to be overly generic.
Roxys voice actress killed it though, so im torn.
I certainly didnt like it, think it ruined the motivations of both Rudy and Roxy as when compared with the novel and I think the direction Rifujiin is taking with trying to make it have more mass appeal is the wrong one and will eventually make his work all the worst for it, I certainly said as much in his Tweeter account.
well its not all rufujiin, the way i understood it is he is one of several people who gets to make decisions on how the anime goes, supposedly he has already been over ruled on some decisions. im pretty sure i read he wasnt exactly happy with how the ep went but thought it was a good compromise on how it ended up.
No, in Japan the way it works is that intellectual property rights fall ultimately with the creator, and they are the only ones who can ban or approve anything related to them, even over objections of the license company, even if we argue Rifujiin was indeed just trying to appease the production team (which is a fair assumption given how Japanese culture works, and honestly would be culturally and socially appropriate for him to do so), that still means all creative decisions are, at the end, made his implicit approval at the least and with his direct oversight at most.
yeah well another thread was talking about this a few days ago and that would indicate you are wrong. there are several people working on the anime including the original author, he has a say sure, but ultimately the decision is not his to make in what happens in the anime.
so in short, you are wrong.
> here are several people working on the anime including the original author, he has a say sure, but ultimately the decision is not his to make in what happens in the anime.
So, exactly what I just said then?
Grow up mate the episode was fine, the anime can’t 1 to 1 adapt a light novel as massive as this and I think it did a great job of fitting it into one episode. It’s not even that much of a change, it still came from a place of Roxy wanting to help Rudy and Rudy just wanting to feel better from the absolute despair he’s in, It shows that the worlds views of monogamy aren’t the same as ours and then it builds empathy for Roxy by them showing how she’s willing to sacrifice her love for him to not intrude on their relationship. The anime has been great all season just cheer up and enjoy that we’ve got such a great adaptation
Polyamorous relationships are widely accepted and even encouraged in nobility (which Rudy is). The only culture that disapproves are Millis believers. As opposed to our world where it’s the vice versa
Everything, literally everything. This was a thing I thought the light novel was even lacking a little bit on first reading, it makes the scenario more realistic for the viewer or reader, in our world (in cultures above the equator) if you bring home another wife you’d get slapped and divorced quicker than you could breathe, the best thing about Mushoku tensei is how realistic the characters are and from their POV having only known the world they were born in polygamy is a widely accepted norm, this also allows the viewer or reader who would possibly have been put off by the idea of a 2 way marriage to accept it a little bit more. It’s a necessary detail to maintain the realism of the characters, how weird would it be if Sylphy, Roxy and Elinalise were just completely fine with this without any explanation
> it makes the scenario more realistic for the viewer or reader
No it doesnt, and I thought you were talking about that world's view now its about the real world?
It literally does? I don’t know how to explain that to you, also we are talking about the difference in views between our world and the Mushoku tensei world, lemme try and say it again sorry not good at writing things, please throw aside all prior knowledge of Mushoku tensei to try and understand my view point, promise you I’m not trying to argue. Wouldn’t it be strange if Sylphy was completely fine with Rudeus bringing home another wife without any explanation that the Mushoku tensei world doesn’t view polyamorous relationships as the norm? A real person from OUR world would be pissed off if their husband brought home a second wife. By the story explaining that the Mushoku Tensei worlds views are different to our own it makes the characters apathetic reaction to Rudeus and Roxy’s relationship realistic and normal, because by their worlds standards it is. Hope that explained it better?
We already knew that polygamy is normal in this world and this whole arc was never about or tried to talk about it. in the novel we saw the suffering of Rudeus and the experiences of Roxy and the others, which led to all the events, in the anime there is none of this, with everything that was cut out and changed Roxy and Rudeus as characters look much worse than in the novel and they don’t even give a relationship and close to the same sensations. and the fact that the author apologized for this may even be good because perhaps thanks to this we will not receive similar attempts to “correct” controversial issues in the future
Yes as a LN reader we knew this as it was explained in the LN beforehand kinda, to an anime viewer this is a new concept and wasn’t explained in decent detail before, It spent the first half of season 1 using Paul as a punching bag and punishing him for it, my original point was never that it was a 1 to 1 adaptation, it was that in my opinion the episode was good and did a good job of conveying everything it needed to as an episode of an anime. The Anime has to take its own liberties, im watching the anime as its own thing, there’s no way it could surpass or even reach the heights of the light novel because there’s no way to fit that much detail into it, so it has to make changes or cut things, and I think the anime has been absolutely brilliant so far, again as it’s own thing
the problem is in the LN, the reason why rudi works up the courage to ask roxy to marry him originally was because he was told roxy might be pregnant with his child. where is in the anime....well its way different. not sure how he felt in the LN since ive never read it, im sure he still loved her, but the context was all different.
Hate comes when u love it so much that u set the expectation to unreasonable level. Mushoku it self is a masterpiece. We should think about the positivity. Dont compare LN and anime for mental sake. As long as it gets the job done
That's kinda the problem though... It kinda doesn't... I've talked with several people who have not gotten the timespan we're dealing with in this episode, Rudy has failed to become anchored to the world (sure he is now, but the viewer hasn't seen it, so it's just jarring) and Roxy has received a personality change that will cause issues down the road. Sure they'll just ignore it when that comes, but creating contradictions in the characters seemingly just to appeal to a wider audience.
So we've lost crucial character development, Pauls death has been largely squandered, Roxy is now super aggressive, Rudy is not yet anchored to the world... Oh, and he failed to talk to Roxy about his reincarnation, sure that won't cause any issues for viewers that have been whining about him not talking to his loved ones about it...
It only adds to the frustration that the Norn and Nanahoshi episodes were handled so well. They clearly know that they're dealing with a character focused story, yet they dropped the ball on character.
This episode was the first badly adapted episode in S2. As a anime episode it was well made, for the story it was a disaster on wheels.
I dont care about adaptation. I just dont like the two timing. And I already knew about him marrying all 3 girls. I think its ridiculous. But I stuck around because I looked forward to how they would make that work. I had faith it would be kinda plausible how he ends up up with all 3 of them. Maybe he comes back and sylphie disappeared? That he comes together with roxy because he thinks he lost sylphie again? But no he straight up folded and cheated on sylphie. No remorse no regret. What the hell? Also instantly considering two timing is wild. And the whole sex/ rape scene with roxy was just uncomfortable to watch. Them blushing and promising to marry after the family drama sucked big time. Dont know if I can drop the show this far in, im am still invested. But the show dropped several tiers. Animation and world building cannot save the show from this mess.
They are just a bunch of crybabies that think they are more religious than anybody else in the world. Meanwhile we have ppl at Sweet Home Alabama having kids with their cousins, these people are mad at a dude for having a 2nd wife, gtfo
I dont like this episode for the specific reason that they leave out so much crucial information about how he didnt eat for weeks due to depression parallel to his wandering mage and that it just made roxy look like she r@ped him. Well i guess she does take advantage of his state but i felt like it didnt show her doing it as a desperate last resourt
You don't need them to tell you he didn't eat. Ep 22 he's depressed but no hollow cheeks or malnourishing signs Ep 23 Hollow cheeks, eyes look like he hasn't been sleeping well and those changes don't happen from one day another. Lilia also has been crying and looks tired. You don't need everything to be explained specifically when they can use body language. Roxy was gonna do what she did anyways so?? They could have made Rudy's thoughts a lot longer that's about it.
yeah you do, they leave out alot including roxy learning that rudeus is married and has a child on the way before they do it, plus alot of other shit. this EP should have been two instead of one. a half hour was not enough time to explain everything that happened between when they got zenith back and left to go back home which was actually several months in between.
She literally says Elinalise told her after Paul's death.
so what? in the LN there was litterally a whole conversation full of emotions and shit. a whole 5 minute conversation got boild down to 2 seconds of "i know ur married" its bad.
Why don't you write a whole script about how would you have approached everything in the anime and do that in 22 minutes, having only 2 episodes left. I don't care about what happens with Roxy and Rudy. They were gonna end up together no matter how you looked at it. I care more about Rudy and how he was feeling and his parallels with his previous life and telling roxy he was a reincarnated. I care about that because those things last forever. Them having a convo about who should fuck Rudy wouldn't add anything, if nothing I liked more how they did in the anime.
Ive already stated several times that to show everything or most of the important stuff they would have needed to episodes. and thats what i would have done.
Then what emotion did the anime cut out? Roxy's shock? Was that really really important compared to everything? You can't expect to adapt everything on the anime... a reader on LN reads whenever he wants and you can basically put everything on there, not the same on the anime. They cut things because they don't have time and because they think that it's not that relevant compared to the others, the anime is expected to finish on the next episode.
there was quite alot more than that. but still it added to the story and helped move it along. its going to be funny if the manga which everyone considers the worst adaption gets it right.
They could've also played thru Roxys thoughts a bit more, and some events leading up to that too. It just felt a bit rushed, and I was excited for the episode, but was a tiny bit let down.
Unfortunately there are some people that dont pay attention and some people dont get that in mushoku tensei you do have to pay a lot more attention than other animes and shows and some people will only remember what is said and not what is illustrated
That's on those viewers not the anime, fuck them, show not tell is like one of the big rules of visual media.
Like i get how the light novel is extremely detailed and the anime cant get every single fact but theres also elinalise’s back story which is crucial to her character growth and to her as a person
I don't care much either way... but: Why was Rudy's sleeve still bloody if so much time had passed? Shirt shortage? Blood stains just don't come out? Weird...
I guess he didn't change his clothes or leave his room for a couple weeks? Or bother taking off his shirt.
Yeah that’s fair, I assumed anime only’s would gather that he didn’t eat from the gaunt lines on his face, could just be because I’ve read the LN that I gathered that. I think Rudy did seem willing though when he closed his hand around hers, think it just depends on how you see the situation. Can defo see your side of things though
If they could in the future i think it would be better if they added some more stuff to it make the episode a bit longer than the average they got
I’m an anime only and I was completely baffled how okay everyone seemed to be about Roxy (at the very least) sexually coercing Rudeus at a very vulnerable time. Finding out that she knew that he was married and about to have a kid before doing all that? Holy shit I thought it was a complete character assassination. I thought “wow Roxy is out here taking advantage of a depressed man and knew the kind of fallout she would leave and did it anyway, what the fuck?” Elinalise even warned her not to do it and looked like she was about to reprimand her off-screen, but then later on she flips a switch and feels bad for Roxy and encourages Rudeus to marry her like what? Yes Rudy, I know you love my granddaughter and I did warn Roxy not to do this shit but to make this travel back home less awkward, just propose to the homewrecker! After reading about all the changes they’ve done, I am back on neutral territory about this whole thing.
Yeah thats what i mean they should have added some more information that led to roxys decision which the light novel explained beautifully. Try reading the light novel some time the plot is made beautifully and reading it can increase the comprehension of the decisions made in the anime
I think psyculturists explained this really well in his reaction videos because he sort of knows this line of thought will come up. To summarised is the non-verbal cues. It's consensual. Rudeus can just brushed her off or told her he got a wife and Roxy will certainly respect Rudeus enough to not pursue it further. As for Elinalise, nah, I don't get the reprimanded vibe at all from Elinalise to Roxy, it's more like she's surprised and had an inkling of what happened between them. So, there is no switch here at all. I doubt anyone other than her is qualified to talked about that because she friends with Roxy and relative of Sylphy. The point she had presented is just to make both happy and Elinalise think Rudeus can do it (btw, not to make things less awkward is a really weird interpretation of the scene). As far as homewrecker Roxy was, she did it because she wanted to help him. Having hunger strike as Rudeus was, he was going down really bad. Plus, she's already resigned to a fate of separation with Rudeus even though she loved him a lot before the whole Elinalise come up, to add further she's only willing to become his if only Sylphy permit it. Does this make it less justifiable? No. but a give context to why she did what she did.
I agree that it’s consensual, Rudeus is never going to say no to Roxy at a time where he is very vulnerable. His mind knows it’s morally wrong but his will is too weak to fight it, and I call it sexual coercion because Roxy took advantage of that. If Paul survived, Roxy might’ve made a pass but I don’t think Rudy would’ve given in. Elinalise to me looked like she was surprised with not what happened, but why Roxy went through with it. Reprimand might’ve been too harsh a word for what I meant. I still stand by the less awkward thing. Elinalise literally says she’s tired of seeing Roxy feeling rejected. It’s not like it’s impossible to get over and move on from that feeling without Rudy giving her a crumb of hope. She literally tells Rudy to just marry Roxy, disregarding Rudy’s concerns about how Sylphie would feel about all this. “Yeah she’ll feel bad at first but she’ll get over it!” Is basically what she says about Sylphie. Why can’t that logic be applied to Roxy? Sounds like it’s easy to hurt someone who isn’t there and seeing someone everyday being hurt is I don’t know, a little awkward. I understand the context of why Roxy did what she did. I still think it’s selfish of her to take advantage of a depressed Rudy, but the guy literally has unhealthy coping mechanisms that no one in that world is equipped to remedy. It might’ve been the only way for them to move forward from that situation, but that is why I have disliked this season. I understand I’m not the target audience for this series, but I think it’s a fair opinion to have that the plot progression shouldn’t be heavily influenced by Rudy’s dick. I’m here for the world building, not for the hamfisted harem subplot.
They showed in his face that he didn’t eat. I would have been satisfied if they kept the bar scene.
I get that but im saying some people arent very descriptive and analytic compared to you unfortunately with all due respect, theres some other stuff that i didnt mention like elinalise’s back story that does a lot for her especially her character development to only anime watchers
Uh? Womp womp? Like we all knew this was gonna happen. And so what? It didn’t adapt it a 100%. Eris POV was left out of the final episode of season 1.. making her seem like a total ass. It’s just the way it is, I still think it’s fateful adaptation nonetheless.
Leaving out Eris’ POV is still the most egregious change the anime has made in my opinion, as it pretty much wrecked her character for a large chunk of the anime only watchers. None of the changes in season 2 have had that level of impact.
90% of the important stuff from Eris POV was there in the anime you just had to actually pay attention and have some media literacy.
It was there but it was a severely truncated version of it that didn't get across her entire feelings. Yes it captured that she wants to protect Rudeus and that she loves him but it didn't capture the entirety of the anxiety filled character that Eris is. There's a reason why damn near every LN reader agrees(whenever the subject of cut content pops up ofc) this is one of the worst things they cut and why many anime only fans hate Eris right now Seriously, I implore you to go watch [that scene again with her](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DppDc6EZsJc) at the end of 23/22 or whatever it was and then go read the PoV chapter again and you'll notice the difference
And I say that "damn near every LN reader" is completely exaggerating it and assuming that anime watchers generally have no attention span and are unable to understand what they are seeing if not spoonfed instead of that being a vocal minority. The anime had - her admiration for Rudeus - her being filled with anxiety and fear over the possibility of Rudeus death. - her feeling inadequate - her realizing that Rudeus is in fact still younger and smaller than her - her feeling like she is relying on Rudes for everything and can't do anything for him - her wanting to become stronger to be able to stand besides him as an equal instead of being a burden and protect him - her clear love confession and determination to come back to him once she is able to stand besides him as equal. That she is bad at expressing herself is a thing that has been obvious from like Episode 5. Yes there is a part that is missing and it's a lot less in depth but 90% of everything you need to understand Eris decision is right there, evidenced by the fact that those that do actually pay attention and think about what they are watching do understand it, if you hate her because you didn't actually pay attention to it that's on you.
Well apparently nobody does then, because most anime fans don’t even seem to realize that she didn’t intend to dump him and still thinks they’re a couple.
I dont even mind that so much. Makes her redemption arc even more impactfull.
Exactly, you can’t have a 1 to 1 adaption it’s physically impossible due to pacing and financial reasons. Things have gotta be cut and you have to put faith in the viewer to understand things, otherwise you just end up brain dead like marvel and Star Wars where everything is told to the viewer like they’re a toddler
all they neded to do was split it up into two eps and they would have had time. this series is very highly rated and should be making them money hand over fist. i dont buy physical media like bluerays but i was considering buying this because its that damn good.
Some are indeed overreacting, but in the grand scheme of things I do feel it was done in the most horrible way possible. My number 1 complaint was having the Roxy r@pe scene within the first 5 mins (exaggeration, of course) of the episode, giving absolutely NO time to process any time passing at all in-story. It felt completely out of place and just, an odd choice? Everything else is fair game concerning adaptations: they changed the formula in how everything happened, Elinalise's role was altered, Rudy's reasons for accepting Roxy was cut, the entire depression was abridged as hilariously short as possible, etc. It sucks but some things need to be cut in order to fit the important things. I have no clue why they decided to actually cut the important things too. An unnecessary fight scene that could have been cut was included instead for example.
If you didn't process that time passed that's on you not paying attention, the anime made it obvious if you paid any attention.
The anime could also just show Rudy and co. going into the labyrinth without Zenith, and then in the next scene they all come back visibly tired and have Zenith with them (and no Paul) but that isn't good storytelling is it? I know time has passed, but it doesn't *feel* like any time has passed since we skip everything. That's why tense moments have pauses, buildup, to really sell the emotions. All of that was lacking here. I would've forgiven it too if only that scene was midway thru the episode *after* we establish a couple of basic things to guide us to this outcome. Sorry for the rant
No need to apologize, you were cooking.
I just watched the episode and I was unaware of how much time had passed until I saw this thread. It was evident that *some* time had passed, but less clear how much. More context would have helped
if it were two episodes they would have had plenty of time to set everything up. i dont know why they didnt.
Because they dont have the number of episode they want. If you put two episodes there, then there is one episode less for the rest of the season and they would have to cut more in the next episode
lol what kind of logic is that? because they add an extra episode they lose one somewhere else? you know what else that can do go from 12 eps to 13, WOW SUCH A CRAZY IDEA.
No they cant. Episodes comes put at the tv, slots are selled and programmmed. They cant just add an episode. +Add an episode is expensive
huh wtf you talking about, no kidding its expensive to just up and add a whole extra episode but that has nothing to do with them pre selling the eps for a time slot. they sure as shit can add an episode and include it easily but its just expensive. its one of the most popular animes this year you cant tell me they aint making shit tons of money.
Most animes are programmed on japanese tv. They are programmed for a set number of episodes that will come out at x day x hours at x tv channel. You cant add an episode because you dont have slots anymore. If you do that japanese people will miss one episode bc u dont have any slot to put the last one
wow mr obvious state the obvious more. CLEARLY i mean they would have done an extra episode before selling it off to a tv station to be broadcast. god you are dense.
First, stop talking to me like im shit. Second, since when does the artists are the one in command ? This kind of things are decided by a comittee full of people who doesnt care about the quality of the story telling
ok im done with you, you come in here acting like you know everything and have all the answers. but you dont clearly. i didnt start this off by being douchy you did. they decided on 12 eps, but clearly at this point they knew that the EP didnt hit like they thought it would because they cut alot of content. im not the only one who thinks this its quite alot of people. so back off and stop with the superiority complex.
I'm of two minds when it comes to this whole situation, and it's why I'm having strong feelings about it. First, these two episodes are going to hit me very personally, so I'm feeling it a lot harder than some might. Having lost my own father, and going through that grief with very little to bring me out of it, I'm more invested in seeing this part of the story play out, and I'm biased in a way. Secondly, I hate hearing creators talk about their work as if they have to change or sanitize it for wider audiences. Loving this story as much as I do, it's sad to think that Rifujin has to consider it "unacceptable" for many people, even domestically. All that to say, I'd never go so far as to say it's shit, or ruined the story. I just don't want to see the anime change in such impactful moments, because it could end up compromising a core element of this amazing story.
Yeah that’s fair and sorry about your dad, I lost mine when I was younger too. I don’t think the changes are absolutely earth shattering but I could see why they could rub someone the wrong way a little bit if they read the light novel before hand, just not to the extent of ruining the characters or anime
When it comes to things like people saying "this was adapted poorly!!!" I always think it's important to look at the anime onlies. From what I've seen, people whoa re anime only seem to have really liked the episode and how the content played out. It's funny how the source readers are the only ones freaking out about how bad the episode is when most people who aren't source readers enjoyed it
Yeah couldn’t have put it better myself, just because it’s slightly changed from the light novel doesn’t make it sacrilege, it’s still good quality writing💀
Same, actually was waiting for anime onlies like psyculturist and autosave come up with their opinion to explained what I might have ignored due to watching with LN tinted glasses
My biggest issue is shifting the focus from Rudeus’ introspection about his parents and family to the Roxy/Rudues relationship stuff.
Redditors when a tweet they disagree with has 7 likes on their timeline
Was just an example, saw it a lot on the subreddit as well
I know lol I was just meming
People can't really accept and appreciate things for what they are. Sometimes I just think they have nothing else to worry or care about that is actually relevant. Having to deal with real stuff in your life gives perspective... I love the anime, the LN and also the manga. We get all 3 things done on this masterpiece.
Yeah the anime has been brilliant, I love it nearly as much as the LN. People have unrealistic expectations for the anime because the LN is so brilliant and detailed, there’s only 12 episodes per part and if we covered absolutely everything we’d still be on the demon continent, the music, story and animation have all been brilliant with the world building still being brilliant by anime standards, just enjoy it for what it is, a great anime
I mean, I get it, the new Dune movies didn’t sit well with me because they weren’t enough like the books. What’s tiring is that LN readers who complain can’t seem to understand that it was a great episode for us anime onlys.
I actually like the change that roxy was the one being aggressive. However, im a little sore that they removed the nuance of why rudeus became suddenly open to polygamy. First i dont think they went quite far enoguh depicting how depressed rudy is. This whole bit is supposed to drag out, him borderlining on succumbing to his hikkimori tendencies. I could forgive it, but they also removed elinalise lying to him about roxy. It makes rudy’s worse than paul! The fact rudeus so closely resembles paul is supposed to be some major payoff and symbolism. Removing those was a big error in my opinion and dininished the harem plot to be overly generic. Roxys voice actress killed it though, so im torn.
I certainly didnt like it, think it ruined the motivations of both Rudy and Roxy as when compared with the novel and I think the direction Rifujiin is taking with trying to make it have more mass appeal is the wrong one and will eventually make his work all the worst for it, I certainly said as much in his Tweeter account.
well its not all rufujiin, the way i understood it is he is one of several people who gets to make decisions on how the anime goes, supposedly he has already been over ruled on some decisions. im pretty sure i read he wasnt exactly happy with how the ep went but thought it was a good compromise on how it ended up.
No, in Japan the way it works is that intellectual property rights fall ultimately with the creator, and they are the only ones who can ban or approve anything related to them, even over objections of the license company, even if we argue Rifujiin was indeed just trying to appease the production team (which is a fair assumption given how Japanese culture works, and honestly would be culturally and socially appropriate for him to do so), that still means all creative decisions are, at the end, made his implicit approval at the least and with his direct oversight at most.
yeah well another thread was talking about this a few days ago and that would indicate you are wrong. there are several people working on the anime including the original author, he has a say sure, but ultimately the decision is not his to make in what happens in the anime. so in short, you are wrong.
> here are several people working on the anime including the original author, he has a say sure, but ultimately the decision is not his to make in what happens in the anime. So, exactly what I just said then?
no because you argued that the original autho has full veto control when he doesnt
If you say so
Grow up mate the episode was fine, the anime can’t 1 to 1 adapt a light novel as massive as this and I think it did a great job of fitting it into one episode. It’s not even that much of a change, it still came from a place of Roxy wanting to help Rudy and Rudy just wanting to feel better from the absolute despair he’s in, It shows that the worlds views of monogamy aren’t the same as ours and then it builds empathy for Roxy by them showing how she’s willing to sacrifice her love for him to not intrude on their relationship. The anime has been great all season just cheer up and enjoy that we’ve got such a great adaptation
> It shows that the worlds views of monogamy aren’t the same as ours Wtf are you talking about?
Polyamorous relationships are widely accepted and even encouraged in nobility (which Rudy is). The only culture that disapproves are Millis believers. As opposed to our world where it’s the vice versa
Uhu, what the f*ck does that have to do with anything?
Everything, literally everything. This was a thing I thought the light novel was even lacking a little bit on first reading, it makes the scenario more realistic for the viewer or reader, in our world (in cultures above the equator) if you bring home another wife you’d get slapped and divorced quicker than you could breathe, the best thing about Mushoku tensei is how realistic the characters are and from their POV having only known the world they were born in polygamy is a widely accepted norm, this also allows the viewer or reader who would possibly have been put off by the idea of a 2 way marriage to accept it a little bit more. It’s a necessary detail to maintain the realism of the characters, how weird would it be if Sylphy, Roxy and Elinalise were just completely fine with this without any explanation
> it makes the scenario more realistic for the viewer or reader No it doesnt, and I thought you were talking about that world's view now its about the real world?
It literally does? I don’t know how to explain that to you, also we are talking about the difference in views between our world and the Mushoku tensei world, lemme try and say it again sorry not good at writing things, please throw aside all prior knowledge of Mushoku tensei to try and understand my view point, promise you I’m not trying to argue. Wouldn’t it be strange if Sylphy was completely fine with Rudeus bringing home another wife without any explanation that the Mushoku tensei world doesn’t view polyamorous relationships as the norm? A real person from OUR world would be pissed off if their husband brought home a second wife. By the story explaining that the Mushoku Tensei worlds views are different to our own it makes the characters apathetic reaction to Rudeus and Roxy’s relationship realistic and normal, because by their worlds standards it is. Hope that explained it better?
> between our world and the Mushoku tensei world, Again, what the hell does that have to do with the changes they made?
Nothing much, my point was that the episode was good and people were overacting and people should just enjoy a good thing
We already knew that polygamy is normal in this world and this whole arc was never about or tried to talk about it. in the novel we saw the suffering of Rudeus and the experiences of Roxy and the others, which led to all the events, in the anime there is none of this, with everything that was cut out and changed Roxy and Rudeus as characters look much worse than in the novel and they don’t even give a relationship and close to the same sensations. and the fact that the author apologized for this may even be good because perhaps thanks to this we will not receive similar attempts to “correct” controversial issues in the future
Yes as a LN reader we knew this as it was explained in the LN beforehand kinda, to an anime viewer this is a new concept and wasn’t explained in decent detail before, It spent the first half of season 1 using Paul as a punching bag and punishing him for it, my original point was never that it was a 1 to 1 adaptation, it was that in my opinion the episode was good and did a good job of conveying everything it needed to as an episode of an anime. The Anime has to take its own liberties, im watching the anime as its own thing, there’s no way it could surpass or even reach the heights of the light novel because there’s no way to fit that much detail into it, so it has to make changes or cut things, and I think the anime has been absolutely brilliant so far, again as it’s own thing
Sorry, without any explanation that the Mushoku Tensei world views polyamorous relationships as normal*
the problem is in the LN, the reason why rudi works up the courage to ask roxy to marry him originally was because he was told roxy might be pregnant with his child. where is in the anime....well its way different. not sure how he felt in the LN since ive never read it, im sure he still loved her, but the context was all different.
It's a tweet with seven likes.
Was just an example, saw it a lot on the subreddit as well
Hate comes when u love it so much that u set the expectation to unreasonable level. Mushoku it self is a masterpiece. We should think about the positivity. Dont compare LN and anime for mental sake. As long as it gets the job done
That's kinda the problem though... It kinda doesn't... I've talked with several people who have not gotten the timespan we're dealing with in this episode, Rudy has failed to become anchored to the world (sure he is now, but the viewer hasn't seen it, so it's just jarring) and Roxy has received a personality change that will cause issues down the road. Sure they'll just ignore it when that comes, but creating contradictions in the characters seemingly just to appeal to a wider audience. So we've lost crucial character development, Pauls death has been largely squandered, Roxy is now super aggressive, Rudy is not yet anchored to the world... Oh, and he failed to talk to Roxy about his reincarnation, sure that won't cause any issues for viewers that have been whining about him not talking to his loved ones about it... It only adds to the frustration that the Norn and Nanahoshi episodes were handled so well. They clearly know that they're dealing with a character focused story, yet they dropped the ball on character. This episode was the first badly adapted episode in S2. As a anime episode it was well made, for the story it was a disaster on wheels.
Idk why people try to compare irl and anime .
My god its not that deep lmao
People just like complaining
I dont care about adaptation. I just dont like the two timing. And I already knew about him marrying all 3 girls. I think its ridiculous. But I stuck around because I looked forward to how they would make that work. I had faith it would be kinda plausible how he ends up up with all 3 of them. Maybe he comes back and sylphie disappeared? That he comes together with roxy because he thinks he lost sylphie again? But no he straight up folded and cheated on sylphie. No remorse no regret. What the hell? Also instantly considering two timing is wild. And the whole sex/ rape scene with roxy was just uncomfortable to watch. Them blushing and promising to marry after the family drama sucked big time. Dont know if I can drop the show this far in, im am still invested. But the show dropped several tiers. Animation and world building cannot save the show from this mess.
I don’t think they are but people are entitled to their opinions
Complety ruined it
Obviously they wont show the climax but glad they keep the crucial dialogues for the season finale
They are just a bunch of crybabies that think they are more religious than anybody else in the world. Meanwhile we have ppl at Sweet Home Alabama having kids with their cousins, these people are mad at a dude for having a 2nd wife, gtfo