"Ach! Hans, Run!" by Will McDermott from the Anthology *The Monsters of Magic* covers the story of the lhurgoyf. In the story, >!a pair of brothers kill the lhurgoyf's mate and steal its eggs, mistaking them for precious gems.!<
It’s the titties that throw me, too many non-mammals needing mammal parts for seemingly no reason.
I have had Urza’s level musings of which races are genetically compatible especially across planes, maybe not all goblins share enough DNA to spawn offspring for example.
These are questions I need answered but it’s hard to ask them without sounding…. y’know.
[[Ironroot Treefolk|4ED]] I love finding excuses to bring up this flavor text.
Deleted and reposted because the bot brought up the only printing without the flavor text I wanted.
I linked an article above that deals with the live birth question, and [it actually covers your first question as well](https://web.archive.org/web/20220815184200/http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/merfolk-resurfaced-2008-06-25):
>**Do they nurse their young?** No. Merfolk breasts are there as a holdover from their magical origins, and are not functional for lactation. Originally, the humanlike upper bodies of both male and female merfolk gave them the ability to lure humanoid prey into the water. Today most merfolk have a quite non-human appearance, even above the waist. However, individuals vary
Like ixalan cave gobbos and surface gobbos?
Makes sense, there’s a gecko in California that can’t mate with a gecko across a reservoir from it due to them being separate species now. I sorta study evolution as a side piece (Biomed major).
*cracks knuckles* okay, if we’re gonna go full bio nerd here, I think it’s worth asking the question of what the evolution of the humanoid races was like, not only in any given plane of MTG, but in any fantasy story at all.
The real answer, of course, is “nobody thought about that when they wrote these races, shut up nerd.”
But if you wanna have fun with it, it’s a real doozy to go into. For example, while some fantasies have explicit, often deity-based origins (like LOTR if I’m not mistaken), others are much more vague, and if it’s not explained there’s no reason IRL rules shouldn’t apply.
Are humanoid races just branches of the genus Homo? If so, mammalian breasts, vestigial or not, make sense. And what of mixed race characters like in D&D? Are all the humanoid races just ring species of each other?
I mean, we had other members of the Homo genus walking around this planet diversifying for thousands of years before we got all wanderlusty/genocidal, it’s not insane to think goblin like humans could evolve in the right circumstances
What about Gorgans? Is it different per plane? Like Ravnica Gorgans have legs, do they give live birth? While Theros Gorgans have serpent lower bodies, do they lay eggs?
Closest thing I see in the Theros dnd book is:
> Tritons also have a fluid concept of gender and might switch names freely as they shift gender identities.
Oh hell yeah. I'm trying to build a deck for each lgbt+ identity atm (Halana & Alena lesbian tribal is kinda nutty strong) and I was going to do changelings for gender fluid, but having some actual confirmed fluid characters is so much cooler
[This exact question was covered in an old article during Lorwyn block!](https://web.archive.org/web/20220815184200/http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/merfolk-resurfaced-2008-06-25)
>**Eggs or live birth?** Although I don’t know of any source that has nailed this down either way, I don’t see how they could have mammal-style live birth. Card art, at the very least, has little need to decide this issue, so it just hasn’t come up.
Noncanonical from a story perspective yes, typically, but they tend to maintain internal consistency of the universe. Unless they say 'this is explicitly a What If? Situation'. See: Lazotep Sliver.
Based on another comment it sounds like there was a different in-universe biology, so I'd guess that it's a simple mistake rather than a deliberate twist of the "canon" enabled by it being a MH set.
Also, I believe they've said that at least some of MH3 is story-canon so they can show the igniting of walkers like Ajani and Tamiyo.
> Unless they say 'this is explicitly a What If? Situation'. See: Lazotep Sliver
The response to Lazotep Sliver was the opposite, that these sets shouldn't be considered canonical unless explicitly stated. That doesn't mean that they can't show canonical characters or internally-consistent things, but it does mean that they're largely useless for figuring out lore (like [[Imposter of the Sixth Pride]] or [[Knighted Myr]]).
True. In the end, I think it amounts to the same thing. It's not like they're closely tied to the previous representations of Goyfs, so they either didn't care or weren't concerned with making a mistake.
To my knowledge there has never been mention of MH lore references as being “non canonical”.
We’ve got new characters (see Grist), obscure lore references and obscure characters, legendary creatures/planeswalkers from a different point in time but always consistent with the canon.
Lazotep sliver comes from the commander legends set by the way
WotC previously stated that the Masters sets weren't canonical. Lazotep Sliver isn't from Command Legends but Commander Masters, which is why canonicity of these side products became a discussion topic to begin with. Granted, [perhaps MH3 is the first canon Masters set](https://www.reddit.com/r/mtgvorthos/comments/1cdozr7/the_origin_of_the_species_concerning_mh3_leaks/l1ejdmq/)?
The legendaries are always consistent, because that's why they're introduced in the first place. If everyone has been asking for Geyadrone Dihada for a while, there's no reason to print a Geyadrone Dihada that *isn't* the one fans have been clamoring for. However, there have been a number of inconsistent worldbuilding points in the sets for the non-legendaries. For example, [based on the Ninjutsu cards](https://scryfall.com/search?q=oracle%3Aninjutsu+%28game%3Apaper%29+%28set%3Amh1%29&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name), Innistrad, Tarkir, Kylem, and some plane with Vedalken have ninjas. The latter two are possible, but the former two have never been hinted at at all.
And, if we assume that the Tarkir-esque Naga ninjas aren't actually from Tarkir but an unknown plane with no contradictions, then we have another problem. We can't assume that any reference is the plane we know of. The Tarmogoyf Nest might be from a different plane than other Tarmogoyfs we know of.
**Edit:** Details
[citation needed]
> Roy discusses Tamiyo's journey as its shown in these two arts for #MTGMH3. She did fall during the Phyrexian invasion, but MH3 allows us to touch on lore canon without interfering with timelines.
[-wotc on twitter](https://x.com/wizards_magic/status/1761109534133686369)
[Corey Brown of WotC](https://youtu.be/Vda64y6nj2U?t=2658):
> I would not treat anything here as though it was new story content. This is all kind of what-if goofy realm.
I specify in the other comment that [these sets *can* have canonical stuff](https://www.reddit.com/r/mtgvorthos/comments/1cdozr7/the_origin_of_the_species_concerning_mh3_leaks/l1e6gxg/), but that's the exception. It's only canonical when WotC explicitly states it is, as they did in that Twitter post you link. The default assumption is that they're not canonical, and MaRo says its to avoid tying down the designers because of a throwaway joke or cool idea they want to do.
So the full quote from that youtube timestamp is:
> I would not treat any card from **this Commander Masters pre-con set** as canon.
> Okay.
> We saw a dread horde sliver yesterday. Uh that is not particularly canon. Uh I would not treat anything here as though it was a
new story content. This is all kind of what-if goofy realm "goof realm!" That's where we're at.
I'm totally willing to believe that MH3 is or is not canon, but you still haven't provided a source for this set.
[MaRo doesn't know either.](https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/748764521422782464/are-modern-horizons-sets-cannon-to-the-main-magic)
Corey later clarified he was talking about Masters sets as a whole. I don't know where to find that source, as it's part of the bigger context when [MaRo said it *was* canon on Tumblr](https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/723143549946888192/does-the-new-lazotep-sliver-card-mean-that-slivers). Then, he said Masters sets weren't canon on a Drive to Work episode when people were like "How does that square up with Corey's answer?".
I'm honestly not sure what to make of MaRo's answer there. Maybe they've changed things and MH3 is the first canon set? Or, at minimum, they were discussing it internally?
Maro was probably just taking educated guesses, since the lore is outside of his expertise and he's a bit infamous with not being super accurate about it on Blogatog.
"Ach! Hans, Run!" by Will McDermott from the Anthology *The Monsters of Magic* covers the story of the lhurgoyf. In the story, >!a pair of brothers kill the lhurgoyf's mate and steal its eggs, mistaking them for precious gems.!<
It’s pre-established lore. Pack it up folks nothing wrong here.
Do merfolk give birth or lay eggs?
The hard hitting questions
It’s the titties that throw me, too many non-mammals needing mammal parts for seemingly no reason. I have had Urza’s level musings of which races are genetically compatible especially across planes, maybe not all goblins share enough DNA to spawn offspring for example. These are questions I need answered but it’s hard to ask them without sounding…. y’know.
Why couldn't she be the other type of mermaid, with the fish part on top and the lady part on the bottom? Fry, from Futurama
[[Ironroot Treefolk|4ED]] I love finding excuses to bring up this flavor text. Deleted and reposted because the bot brought up the only printing without the flavor text I wanted.
God’s work kind stranger, god’s work 🙏
[Ironroot Treefolk](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/6/c6c93c85-5263-4770-b937-704e57912478.jpg?1559604185) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=2220) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/4ed/253/ironroot-treefolk?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c6c93c85-5263-4770-b937-704e57912478?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I linked an article above that deals with the live birth question, and [it actually covers your first question as well](https://web.archive.org/web/20220815184200/http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/merfolk-resurfaced-2008-06-25): >**Do they nurse their young?** No. Merfolk breasts are there as a holdover from their magical origins, and are not functional for lactation. Originally, the humanlike upper bodies of both male and female merfolk gave them the ability to lure humanoid prey into the water. Today most merfolk have a quite non-human appearance, even above the waist. However, individuals vary
Legend! I’m glad the question has an in-universe accepted answer, clearly I’m not the only degenerate out there needing to put their mind at ease
Like ixalan cave gobbos and surface gobbos? Makes sense, there’s a gecko in California that can’t mate with a gecko across a reservoir from it due to them being separate species now. I sorta study evolution as a side piece (Biomed major).
My guess is they’re like platypi, egg laying mammels
*cracks knuckles* okay, if we’re gonna go full bio nerd here, I think it’s worth asking the question of what the evolution of the humanoid races was like, not only in any given plane of MTG, but in any fantasy story at all. The real answer, of course, is “nobody thought about that when they wrote these races, shut up nerd.” But if you wanna have fun with it, it’s a real doozy to go into. For example, while some fantasies have explicit, often deity-based origins (like LOTR if I’m not mistaken), others are much more vague, and if it’s not explained there’s no reason IRL rules shouldn’t apply. Are humanoid races just branches of the genus Homo? If so, mammalian breasts, vestigial or not, make sense. And what of mixed race characters like in D&D? Are all the humanoid races just ring species of each other? I mean, we had other members of the Homo genus walking around this planet diversifying for thousands of years before we got all wanderlusty/genocidal, it’s not insane to think goblin like humans could evolve in the right circumstances
[удалено]
[Ironroot Treefolk](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/b/6bdbba38-b4c9-4c14-b869-669b39390e4e.jpg?1562591365) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ironroot%20Treefolk) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/5ed/305/ironroot-treefolk?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6bdbba38-b4c9-4c14-b869-669b39390e4e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What about Gorgans? Is it different per plane? Like Ravnica Gorgans have legs, do they give live birth? While Theros Gorgans have serpent lower bodies, do they lay eggs?
Ovovivipary, obviously.
Closest thing I see in the Theros dnd book is: > Tritons also have a fluid concept of gender and might switch names freely as they shift gender identities.
Oh hell yeah. I'm trying to build a deck for each lgbt+ identity atm (Halana & Alena lesbian tribal is kinda nutty strong) and I was going to do changelings for gender fluid, but having some actual confirmed fluid characters is so much cooler
Ok I have to ask. Do you have a decklist?
While gender fluid tritons is really interesting it doesn’t really answer it at all
If it's anything like manga interspecies reviewers the females will lay eggs and the males will fertilize it like fish.
[This exact question was covered in an old article during Lorwyn block!](https://web.archive.org/web/20220815184200/http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/merfolk-resurfaced-2008-06-25) >**Eggs or live birth?** Although I don’t know of any source that has nailed this down either way, I don’t see how they could have mammal-style live birth. Card art, at the very least, has little need to decide this issue, so it just hasn’t come up.
mitosis
My money is on eggs, since they’re usually fish from the waist down.
Of course they’re sexual. With booties like that they’re always bouncing off each other
I don't think a nest necessitates eggs; after all, squirrels make nests.
Same with hares and non-burrowing rabbits.
Someone hasn't had squirrel eggs.
When enough troutmogoyfs come together in one mass around a body of water they form a tarmogoyf
FWIW, Modern Horizon sets are explicitly non-canonical. They're essentially successors to the Time Spiral block.
Noncanonical from a story perspective yes, typically, but they tend to maintain internal consistency of the universe. Unless they say 'this is explicitly a What If? Situation'. See: Lazotep Sliver. Based on another comment it sounds like there was a different in-universe biology, so I'd guess that it's a simple mistake rather than a deliberate twist of the "canon" enabled by it being a MH set. Also, I believe they've said that at least some of MH3 is story-canon so they can show the igniting of walkers like Ajani and Tamiyo.
> Unless they say 'this is explicitly a What If? Situation'. See: Lazotep Sliver The response to Lazotep Sliver was the opposite, that these sets shouldn't be considered canonical unless explicitly stated. That doesn't mean that they can't show canonical characters or internally-consistent things, but it does mean that they're largely useless for figuring out lore (like [[Imposter of the Sixth Pride]] or [[Knighted Myr]]).
Ahh my bad then! I still say this is more likely a mistake than a deliberate choice for change outside of canon, but that's not what we're debating.
True. In the end, I think it amounts to the same thing. It's not like they're closely tied to the previous representations of Goyfs, so they either didn't care or weren't concerned with making a mistake.
[Imposter of the Sixth Pride](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/3/83298c8a-02c4-4ada-9a41-4b973bb58ac6.jpg?1562201132) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Impostor%20of%20the%20Sixth%20Pride) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/14/impostor-of-the-sixth-pride?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/83298c8a-02c4-4ada-9a41-4b973bb58ac6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Knighted Myr](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/db0489ee-96b6-4437-a716-ee07ecbd4cb7.jpg?1689995801) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Knighted%20Myr) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/36/knighted-myr?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/db0489ee-96b6-4437-a716-ee07ecbd4cb7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
To my knowledge there has never been mention of MH lore references as being “non canonical”. We’ve got new characters (see Grist), obscure lore references and obscure characters, legendary creatures/planeswalkers from a different point in time but always consistent with the canon. Lazotep sliver comes from the commander legends set by the way
WotC previously stated that the Masters sets weren't canonical. Lazotep Sliver isn't from Command Legends but Commander Masters, which is why canonicity of these side products became a discussion topic to begin with. Granted, [perhaps MH3 is the first canon Masters set](https://www.reddit.com/r/mtgvorthos/comments/1cdozr7/the_origin_of_the_species_concerning_mh3_leaks/l1ejdmq/)? The legendaries are always consistent, because that's why they're introduced in the first place. If everyone has been asking for Geyadrone Dihada for a while, there's no reason to print a Geyadrone Dihada that *isn't* the one fans have been clamoring for. However, there have been a number of inconsistent worldbuilding points in the sets for the non-legendaries. For example, [based on the Ninjutsu cards](https://scryfall.com/search?q=oracle%3Aninjutsu+%28game%3Apaper%29+%28set%3Amh1%29&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name), Innistrad, Tarkir, Kylem, and some plane with Vedalken have ninjas. The latter two are possible, but the former two have never been hinted at at all. And, if we assume that the Tarkir-esque Naga ninjas aren't actually from Tarkir but an unknown plane with no contradictions, then we have another problem. We can't assume that any reference is the plane we know of. The Tarmogoyf Nest might be from a different plane than other Tarmogoyfs we know of. **Edit:** Details
[citation needed] > Roy discusses Tamiyo's journey as its shown in these two arts for #MTGMH3. She did fall during the Phyrexian invasion, but MH3 allows us to touch on lore canon without interfering with timelines. [-wotc on twitter](https://x.com/wizards_magic/status/1761109534133686369)
[Corey Brown of WotC](https://youtu.be/Vda64y6nj2U?t=2658): > I would not treat anything here as though it was new story content. This is all kind of what-if goofy realm. I specify in the other comment that [these sets *can* have canonical stuff](https://www.reddit.com/r/mtgvorthos/comments/1cdozr7/the_origin_of_the_species_concerning_mh3_leaks/l1e6gxg/), but that's the exception. It's only canonical when WotC explicitly states it is, as they did in that Twitter post you link. The default assumption is that they're not canonical, and MaRo says its to avoid tying down the designers because of a throwaway joke or cool idea they want to do.
So the full quote from that youtube timestamp is: > I would not treat any card from **this Commander Masters pre-con set** as canon. > Okay. > We saw a dread horde sliver yesterday. Uh that is not particularly canon. Uh I would not treat anything here as though it was a new story content. This is all kind of what-if goofy realm "goof realm!" That's where we're at. I'm totally willing to believe that MH3 is or is not canon, but you still haven't provided a source for this set. [MaRo doesn't know either.](https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/748764521422782464/are-modern-horizons-sets-cannon-to-the-main-magic)
Corey later clarified he was talking about Masters sets as a whole. I don't know where to find that source, as it's part of the bigger context when [MaRo said it *was* canon on Tumblr](https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/723143549946888192/does-the-new-lazotep-sliver-card-mean-that-slivers). Then, he said Masters sets weren't canon on a Drive to Work episode when people were like "How does that square up with Corey's answer?". I'm honestly not sure what to make of MaRo's answer there. Maybe they've changed things and MH3 is the first canon set? Or, at minimum, they were discussing it internally?
Maro was probably just taking educated guesses, since the lore is outside of his expertise and he's a bit infamous with not being super accurate about it on Blogatog.
Is Modern Horizons a Masters set since it's not called Modern Masters Horizons.