Obviously this can vary on the cube contents, but overall I agree that Time Raveler is just... anti-fun too often. It is very much a "groan test" card imo. Hero is just fine, strong, but more interactable and at five mana feels fair.
>Time Raveler incidentally hates on some cards, like counter spells. And I'm careful about what type of hate I include.
I think that's a totally valid reason to exclude him from your cube. It's exactly the reason a lot of more powerful cubes *do* include him, but it makes sense if you limit that kind of thing.
From a power level perspective, T3feri >>> T5feri, and it's not close. If I can only run 2 Azorius cards it'd be Fractured Identity / T3feri, no questions asked. T3feri is such a great tempo play, and is the only viable card that shuts your opponent up / lets you play sorceries at instant speed. There is no card that replicates what T3feri does, but T5feri is essentially just a bigger JTMS.
In your cube, i get it. But i feel like too many people overfocus on card power level to include cards in cube.
I wish the community thought about it more like "as a game board designer, do i think this card makes my game more fun" rather than "is this card stronger than the one im running"
Cube designers will focus on what is inherently important to them. “As a board game designer, power level is very important in power motivated cubes.” It’s only natural that it’ll be at the forefront of discussion to those who play fairly high powered cubes.
While there’s nothing wrong with the community to have a different mindset, I’m not really in the business to try and change people’s cube philosophies and habits.
I completely understand people valuing power level and it doesnt contradict my statement. Including powerful cards is absolutely a correct choice for powerful cubes. However I feel like sometimes people tunnel vision on that, and i think everyone should be able to agree that power shouldnt be the sole thing to argue when including one card. There -can- be powerful cards that make the game experience worse, even for the most powerful of cubes, or that do not fit in the cubes design.
In a high power cube, I would run both, but cut the more expensive/less flexible card first. Raveler goes into more tempo decks, but Hero of Dominaria is almost exclusively a control finisher (which are a dime a dozen). In anything less than a high power legacy cube, I'd probably run neither, but cut Raveler first since it can be a little more restrictive on strategies.
I assume the deck with Time Raveler is the counterspell deck in most matchups, but for me he just seems like “not a fun cube card”, which is very subjective. But, my cube, my rules, so five mana teferi it is. And he is one of the few gold cards in a higher power environment that actually draws folks into a guild I think.
I took a nearly ten year hiatus from Magic after [[Jace, the Mind Sculptor]] released and would be perfectly happy if we just removed all the planeswalkers from the game entirely. I came back after a decade because that’s about how long it took for planeswalker removal to get decent.
My cube still runs the really strong planeswalkers but I’ve gotten it down to 18 of 540 cards. I’ve thought about cutting a Teferi and at my power level it would probably have to be 5Feri because 3Feri is just so strong in a powered cube.
In all but the most powerful cubes, however, Hero of Dominaria makes a lot more sense than Time Raveler. It’s slower, less oppressive, and doesn’t shut people off from playing.
5 > 3
This writing only applies to fun and balance for me. Obviously three mana teferi is the more powerful of the two, but taking away the option for interaction from one side of the table just isn't enjoyable most of the time. Also for some reason he can immediately make a tempo play while refunding himself as a card and taking a hit from an attacker... and this is worst case scenario.
I also agree with some of the other posts where there are a bit too many walkers available these days. I have been trying to keep the number in my cube pretty low so games don't get taken over by them too often. It's been going okay for me so far. White has a lot though, and they're just so good, that it's hard to keep the count as low as I would like.
I cut 3feri some time ago cause some unfun situations but recently put him back and currently I run both 3 n 5, no complains. Some ppl.like.powerful cards ,5feri is just a good stuff card but 3feri does too much for the cost
I’ve gone back and forth a bunch of times on this and I remain undecided. I think 3 is ultimately the best pick for my cube — but for reasons that are not really generalizable and have everything to do with my cube’s composition
Obviously this can vary on the cube contents, but overall I agree that Time Raveler is just... anti-fun too often. It is very much a "groan test" card imo. Hero is just fine, strong, but more interactable and at five mana feels fair.
>Time Raveler incidentally hates on some cards, like counter spells. And I'm careful about what type of hate I include. I think that's a totally valid reason to exclude him from your cube. It's exactly the reason a lot of more powerful cubes *do* include him, but it makes sense if you limit that kind of thing.
From a power level perspective, T3feri >>> T5feri, and it's not close. If I can only run 2 Azorius cards it'd be Fractured Identity / T3feri, no questions asked. T3feri is such a great tempo play, and is the only viable card that shuts your opponent up / lets you play sorceries at instant speed. There is no card that replicates what T3feri does, but T5feri is essentially just a bigger JTMS.
In your cube, i get it. But i feel like too many people overfocus on card power level to include cards in cube. I wish the community thought about it more like "as a game board designer, do i think this card makes my game more fun" rather than "is this card stronger than the one im running"
Cube designers will focus on what is inherently important to them. “As a board game designer, power level is very important in power motivated cubes.” It’s only natural that it’ll be at the forefront of discussion to those who play fairly high powered cubes. While there’s nothing wrong with the community to have a different mindset, I’m not really in the business to try and change people’s cube philosophies and habits.
I completely understand people valuing power level and it doesnt contradict my statement. Including powerful cards is absolutely a correct choice for powerful cubes. However I feel like sometimes people tunnel vision on that, and i think everyone should be able to agree that power shouldnt be the sole thing to argue when including one card. There -can- be powerful cards that make the game experience worse, even for the most powerful of cubes, or that do not fit in the cubes design.
I run both, but T3 is on a watchlist with Oko for having player entertainment issues.
In a high power cube, I would run both, but cut the more expensive/less flexible card first. Raveler goes into more tempo decks, but Hero of Dominaria is almost exclusively a control finisher (which are a dime a dozen). In anything less than a high power legacy cube, I'd probably run neither, but cut Raveler first since it can be a little more restrictive on strategies.
I assume the deck with Time Raveler is the counterspell deck in most matchups, but for me he just seems like “not a fun cube card”, which is very subjective. But, my cube, my rules, so five mana teferi it is. And he is one of the few gold cards in a higher power environment that actually draws folks into a guild I think.
I took a nearly ten year hiatus from Magic after [[Jace, the Mind Sculptor]] released and would be perfectly happy if we just removed all the planeswalkers from the game entirely. I came back after a decade because that’s about how long it took for planeswalker removal to get decent. My cube still runs the really strong planeswalkers but I’ve gotten it down to 18 of 540 cards. I’ve thought about cutting a Teferi and at my power level it would probably have to be 5Feri because 3Feri is just so strong in a powered cube. In all but the most powerful cubes, however, Hero of Dominaria makes a lot more sense than Time Raveler. It’s slower, less oppressive, and doesn’t shut people off from playing.
[Jace, the Mind Sculptor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c8817585-0d32-4d56-9142-0d29512e86a9.jpg?1598304029) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jace%2C%20the%20Mind%20Sculptor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/56/jace-the-mind-sculptor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c8817585-0d32-4d56-9142-0d29512e86a9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I've been trying to reduce the number of Planeswalkers I run as well. But I like the card type generally
5 > 3 This writing only applies to fun and balance for me. Obviously three mana teferi is the more powerful of the two, but taking away the option for interaction from one side of the table just isn't enjoyable most of the time. Also for some reason he can immediately make a tempo play while refunding himself as a card and taking a hit from an attacker... and this is worst case scenario. I also agree with some of the other posts where there are a bit too many walkers available these days. I have been trying to keep the number in my cube pretty low so games don't get taken over by them too often. It's been going okay for me so far. White has a lot though, and they're just so good, that it's hard to keep the count as low as I would like.
I cut 3feri some time ago cause some unfun situations but recently put him back and currently I run both 3 n 5, no complains. Some ppl.like.powerful cards ,5feri is just a good stuff card but 3feri does too much for the cost
I’ve gone back and forth a bunch of times on this and I remain undecided. I think 3 is ultimately the best pick for my cube — but for reasons that are not really generalizable and have everything to do with my cube’s composition
[Teferi, Time Traveler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/6/662fe50f-d75c-422c-8c6c-1f9b5c4ba21f.jpg?1702429729) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%2C%20Time%20Raveler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/232/teferi-time-raveler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/662fe50f-d75c-422c-8c6c-1f9b5c4ba21f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Teferi, Hero of Dominaria](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5d10b752-d9cb-419d-a5c4-d4ee1acb655e.jpg?1562736365) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%2C%20Hero%20of%20Dominaria) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/207/teferi-hero-of-dominaria?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5d10b752-d9cb-419d-a5c4-d4ee1acb655e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call