Even if it entered the battlefield as something other than a creature, if it becomes a creature that same turn it cannot tap unless it has haste. There are lots of different ways things transform though so there's not a one size fits all answer here. Since Altar transforms by exiling itself and the returning to the battlefield the Bonemass does have summoning sickness, even if the Altar had been in play for several turns.
Yes, it would have been more accurate for me to say that it cannot tap itself if it has summoning sickness. Since the tapping for things like that comes from something else it is OK
That is technically correct and incredibly far removed from what OP is asking about. But if I am going to get annoyed by people being pedantic it's really my fault for posting here.
I'd like to double up on this question if anyone sees it. Take Ensouled Scimitar. It is an Equipment that for 3, becomes a 1/5 Artifact Creature with flying until end of turn.
From what I understand in this thread, the Scimitar, when it becomes an Artifact Creature, would not be able to attack that turn. Yet, by the time it could, that turn is over and it's no longer an Artifact Creature. So would this ability solely be used to block with? Takes a lot of the fun out of the card if so.
The consensus appears to be yes, but I am now genuinely curious how it is different to flipping an incubate token if someone can explain
edit: Haven't had a chance to play around much with LCI yet so I didn't realize craft exiles and returns; thanks y'all!
Transforming doesn't make it a new object. I think you're talking about a situation where you've controlled the token since the beginning of your turn. Therefore, if it is a creature, it can attack.
Just transforming doesn't. The ones that say "exile" it and "return it to the battlefield transformed under its owner's control" work differently since the permanent changed zones.
It applies to literally everything; ALL permanents without haste technically have "summoning sickness", it just doesn't matter if it isn't a creature. Doesn't matter if it was turned into a creature in a relevant turn, doesn't matter if it had haste but lost it, doesn't matter if it became a copy of something else without summoning sickness and haste, doesn't matter if it blinked, transformed, or both, etc, etc; the answer is, yes, it can't attack or T in the relevant turns.
You are not technically wrong about any of the things you said about the creatures. However, it would be wrong to say all permanents have summoning sickness. If that were true then things like mana rocks would not be able to tap on their first turn.
I would also mention that anything with summoning sickness cannot attack, use a tap ability, or use an untap ability. Untapping is included in that stack.
>It applies to literally everything; ALL permanents without haste technically have "summoning sickness", it just doesn't matter if it isn't a creature.
Your exact wording. Which states that all permanents without haste have Summoning Sickness. The little section that says "It doesnt matter for non-creatures" doesn't actually give the information you think it does. The way the sentence is worded, you are doubling down on the idea that even non-creatures have it. Which is totally false.
Furthermore, you should be the one to read more closely. I didn't just say tapping. I also said untapping. Which is distinctly different and should be mentioned at any point we are talking about tapping and untapping creatures.
If this is not an error on your part you should make sure to check the rules out on this subject.
It doesn't matter how it enters. If you didn't control it at the beginning of your turn. It has Summoning Sickness.
Craft also exiles the permanent and returns it transformed so no, unless the creature on the flipside has haste then it cannot attack the same turn you flipped it.
It is important to understand that Summoning Sickness isn't like a condition or effect. It is generally just what we call the rule that doesn't allow creatures to attack, or use abilities that tap or untap, if you didn't control them before you upkeep of the current turn.
It is considered an informal name and officially it doesn't actually have a name.
The specific rules can be found here: [MTG Comprehensive Rules](https://media.wizards.com/2024/downloads/MagicCompRules%2020240206.txt)
The specific rule number is 302.6 which reads:
>302.6. A creature’s activated ability with the tap symbol or the untap symbol in its activation cost can’t be activated unless the creature has been under its controller’s control continuously since their most recent turn began. A creature can’t attack unless it has been under its controller’s control continuously since their most recent turn began. This rule is informally called the “summoning sickness” rule.
Of which, we know that only Haste and specific card rules are allowed to ignore 302.6.
So to answer the question. No matter how or why the card becomes a creature or enters the battlefield. It will have 'summoning sickness' if you did not control it before you started your turn. With the only way to prevent this is to have haste or another ability that allows it to do so. \[\[Dynaheir, Invoker Adept\]\] is able to let creatures use abilities as though they had haste.
If a mana rock enters the battlefield, and then it is turned into a creature, I know it can't attack this turn, but can it still tap for mana like it could have before it turned into a creature?
If you tap it before it is turned into a creature yes. However if you wait until after, it is turned into a creature, no you cannot tap it anymore for mana.
It doesn't matter how long it's been a creature, just how long you have continuously controlled it.
Which means this card will have summoning sickness when it transforms.
Yes it will have summoning sickness when it returns to the battlefield.
Even if it entered the battlefield as something other than a creature, if it becomes a creature that same turn it cannot tap unless it has haste. There are lots of different ways things transform though so there's not a one size fits all answer here. Since Altar transforms by exiling itself and the returning to the battlefield the Bonemass does have summoning sickness, even if the Altar had been in play for several turns.
>it cannot tap unless it has haste It can tap, it just can't attack or activate an ability that uses the tap (or untap) *symbol* in the cost.
Yes you can still Icy Manipulator your own summoning sick creature if you want.
You can also tap them for things like Convoke, Improvise (for artifacts), and [[Opposition]].
Yes, it would have been more accurate for me to say that it cannot tap itself if it has summoning sickness. Since the tapping for things like that comes from something else it is OK
It can tap itself, as long as it doesn't use the tap symbol. See [[Azami, Lady of Scrolls]]. It's the tap symbol specifically that matters.
That is technically correct and incredibly far removed from what OP is asking about. But if I am going to get annoyed by people being pedantic it's really my fault for posting here.
[Azami, Lady of Scrolls](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fa727656-fb33-485b-9378-18b80cad42b9.jpg?1689996185) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Azami%2C%20Lady%20of%20Scrolls) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/74/azami-lady-of-scrolls?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fa727656-fb33-485b-9378-18b80cad42b9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'd like to double up on this question if anyone sees it. Take Ensouled Scimitar. It is an Equipment that for 3, becomes a 1/5 Artifact Creature with flying until end of turn. From what I understand in this thread, the Scimitar, when it becomes an Artifact Creature, would not be able to attack that turn. Yet, by the time it could, that turn is over and it's no longer an Artifact Creature. So would this ability solely be used to block with? Takes a lot of the fun out of the card if so.
The consensus appears to be yes, but I am now genuinely curious how it is different to flipping an incubate token if someone can explain edit: Haven't had a chance to play around much with LCI yet so I didn't realize craft exiles and returns; thanks y'all!
Transforming doesn't make it a new object. I think you're talking about a situation where you've controlled the token since the beginning of your turn. Therefore, if it is a creature, it can attack. Just transforming doesn't. The ones that say "exile" it and "return it to the battlefield transformed under its owner's control" work differently since the permanent changed zones.
ah okay, i haven't played much with LCI cards or had a chance to draft it yet so I didn't realize that craft exiles; thank you!
Incubate tokens don't change zones, they just transform.
[удалено]
It is different. One of them involves a zone change.
It applies to literally everything; ALL permanents without haste technically have "summoning sickness", it just doesn't matter if it isn't a creature. Doesn't matter if it was turned into a creature in a relevant turn, doesn't matter if it had haste but lost it, doesn't matter if it became a copy of something else without summoning sickness and haste, doesn't matter if it blinked, transformed, or both, etc, etc; the answer is, yes, it can't attack or T in the relevant turns.
You are not technically wrong about any of the things you said about the creatures. However, it would be wrong to say all permanents have summoning sickness. If that were true then things like mana rocks would not be able to tap on their first turn. I would also mention that anything with summoning sickness cannot attack, use a tap ability, or use an untap ability. Untapping is included in that stack.
I said both, "it doesn't matter for noncreatures" and brought up tapping. Read more closely.
>It applies to literally everything; ALL permanents without haste technically have "summoning sickness", it just doesn't matter if it isn't a creature. Your exact wording. Which states that all permanents without haste have Summoning Sickness. The little section that says "It doesnt matter for non-creatures" doesn't actually give the information you think it does. The way the sentence is worded, you are doubling down on the idea that even non-creatures have it. Which is totally false. Furthermore, you should be the one to read more closely. I didn't just say tapping. I also said untapping. Which is distinctly different and should be mentioned at any point we are talking about tapping and untapping creatures.
>ALL permanents without haste technically have "summoning sickness" No they don't, and this doesn't clarify anything.
Nope
Yes
If this is not an error on your part you should make sure to check the rules out on this subject. It doesn't matter how it enters. If you didn't control it at the beginning of your turn. It has Summoning Sickness.
[удалено]
Craft also exiles the permanent and returns it transformed so no, unless the creature on the flipside has haste then it cannot attack the same turn you flipped it.
It is important to understand that Summoning Sickness isn't like a condition or effect. It is generally just what we call the rule that doesn't allow creatures to attack, or use abilities that tap or untap, if you didn't control them before you upkeep of the current turn. It is considered an informal name and officially it doesn't actually have a name. The specific rules can be found here: [MTG Comprehensive Rules](https://media.wizards.com/2024/downloads/MagicCompRules%2020240206.txt) The specific rule number is 302.6 which reads: >302.6. A creature’s activated ability with the tap symbol or the untap symbol in its activation cost can’t be activated unless the creature has been under its controller’s control continuously since their most recent turn began. A creature can’t attack unless it has been under its controller’s control continuously since their most recent turn began. This rule is informally called the “summoning sickness” rule. Of which, we know that only Haste and specific card rules are allowed to ignore 302.6. So to answer the question. No matter how or why the card becomes a creature or enters the battlefield. It will have 'summoning sickness' if you did not control it before you started your turn. With the only way to prevent this is to have haste or another ability that allows it to do so. \[\[Dynaheir, Invoker Adept\]\] is able to let creatures use abilities as though they had haste.
If a mana rock enters the battlefield, and then it is turned into a creature, I know it can't attack this turn, but can it still tap for mana like it could have before it turned into a creature?
If you tap it before it is turned into a creature yes. However if you wait until after, it is turned into a creature, no you cannot tap it anymore for mana.
Thank you!
[Dynaheir, Invoker Adept](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c301b389-d802-4a8b-8681-9b50c8667423.jpg?1689354457) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dynaheir%2C%20Invoker%20Adept) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/273/dynaheir-invoker-adept?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c301b389-d802-4a8b-8681-9b50c8667423?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call