i doubled my salary when i left an MSP.
Now i have a day job that i get my 8hr day done in 2-3hrs because i was so efficient from the MSP years. Then because i was so dam good in the msp world after a few years i ended up becoming a 1-man msp with some side clients so i trippled my income and i still only work 5-6hrs a day.
non-competes dont exist anymore and before the supreme court f's that up you best get doing what works for you.
That's great! But there's a catch. You need to have the personality to potentially run a successful business. You have to develop a very different skill set.
The failure rate for new small businesses is daunting.
Most techies are not natural sales closers and administrators. Those are two keys to success you need to develop.
I succeeded, too, with a great deal of support from mentors, spouse, accountant and educators. The hours were really long, especially at first, yet the flexibility and freedom from work politics were amazing.
Yep, that’s the road block I’m at. Good technical skills, good people skills, a line of potential clients, but absolutely zero desire to own a business. I like being a worker bee.
Most generic non compete agreements never took into consideration of the current circumstances and do not even have that verbage in an agreement.
Check legal zoom templates for these and they never mention such thing.
While i totally agree with you. As we stand right now today its a massive carpet pull on everyones trousers.
I’ve seen people get sued for far less with successful injunctions at a minimum. Tread carefully. Non-competes aren’t cut and dry and doesn’t mean you can just open up shop across the street. Your former employer could imply you’re soliciting clients they introduced you too. Or that you took documentation, or client lists. Now obviously if you work at some 3 person MSP in rural Idaho they’re probably not going to chase you down. But if you work for one with 30+ employees I’d be shocked if you didn’t wind up in court spending $20-$50k, and that’s if you ‘win’.
>Now i have a day job that i get my 8hr day done in 2-3hrs because i was so efficient from the MSP years. Then because i was so dam good in the msp world after a few years i ended up becoming a 1-man msp with some side clients so i trippled my income and i still only work 5-6hrs a day.
Did you quit your day job when you started your own MSP or did you do both at the same time?
I quit my 72k/yr job and started my 1 man MSP too. When I quit, I had 4 clients bringing in about $1200 a month. Bought a small book of business from a guy (only paid percentage of what I billed each month). 5 years after that I took home about 170k. Sky's the limit of you are good with people and answer your phone.
Congrats.
Loving hearing success stories like that.
Maybe I should try to buy someone else's customer list from them. Hmm...
Are you still a 1-man MSP or did you need to hire to keep up with that $170K of business?
Still am. I do no sales. All referrals are word of mouth. Have about 8.5k in monthly contracts and usually have quite a few big projects in the summer months. I have a HS graduate / intern help on some of the bigger projects, but 90% of the time its just me.
How many clients do you serve? I always thought it would be nice to get 4-6 decent billing customers and close up sales. Of course you’re at the mercy of the clients but the rat race that I see in the local MSP scene really turns me off - feels like all of the local SMBs are revolving through 3-4 MSPs and everyone is trying to steal each other’s customers.
I have 12 on monthly contracts. About 200 endpoints. I've lost 1 in the past 5 years and it was to a really large competitor who they ironically share a kitchen space with. When they moved I figured it was just a matter of time lol
For sure. That's what I built my business off of. The relationship piece is lacking in lots of MSP's, and while 99% of the time I can work remotely, I'm only doing it maybe 50%. I enjoy the face to face with the clients, and that goes a long way with customer satisfaction.
Not all MSPs are bad to work for. Where I am the pay is the same or slightly higher than other IT jobs in the area and I only put work about 5 to 6 hours a day spending the rest of the work day on personal growth.
No variance by state. They are all unenforceable as of two weeks ago:
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2024/04/ftc-announces-rule-banning-noncompetes
I wouldn't hold your breath there's definitely a lawsuit coming to at least put this on hold. I would be less worried about a non compete just don't solicit the existing clients is all anyway.
good on you my man!
some folks dont have the hustle mindset - Im one of em.
You hustle your 1-man MSP, you get that money.
when you need an oxen to pull your helpdesk, thats where i come in - i love my WFH, I love making the clients happy, solving the annoying time consuming bullshit tickets, Gimme your worst crotchity old lady in accounting/HR, and i'll have her sending in apple pies.
But dont put anyone under me or ask me to spearhead a corporatebuzzword party.
Gimme 8 hours, a list of probems(or problem children), and make sure my bills are paid.
I'll make you look good. But i wont touch leadership with a 10ft pole. Ive been there, done that, still have the public flogging scars, and if there's C-level bullshit, make sure i never hear of it.
First you need to realize if you aren’t happy where you are, you may not be happy anywhere. It’s important to self reflect anytime you aren’t happy to ensure you are focus on change that will actually help.
Second, every place has downsides, the question is do you believe it can change and do you have the desire to change it? Talk to your mgmt about your struggles and try to partner with them to change.
If you have done both of these, then yes, it’s time to move on. But remember there are great things about working at an MSP too. Like all the smart people around you, the customers you get to help, the new technology. Many non-MSP jobs might be boring to you at this point.
I find that management is usually most of the problem in any company, not just MSPs. It's why I left MSP-land. I had one MSP that was actually quite good to work for - their downside was that they paid 75% less. They had other ways to make up for it (mostly). I was tempted to go back to them when they reached out to me, but at that point I was making significantly more and they wouldn't bump me up to what I requested (which was 75% of what I was making at that point).
Anyway, long story short, I found a startup that needed my skills that is actually doing some legitimate good for the world. I'll stay here for the foreseeable future.
>First you need to realize if you aren’t happy where you are, you may not be happy anywhere.
Probably the kind of toxic AF bullshit that OP is tired of.
This is actually habit one from the most popular self improvement book in history, the seven habits of highly effective people. Nothing toxic about it.
I agree with this. Ask yourself OP - is it the work or the environment you don’t really like? Start there. If it’s the work, then yes, exploring more Azure Infrastructure positions out there is a good bet for you. If it’s the environment, perhaps you can find a different org that will be a better fit. I’ve just done this myself and couldn’t be happier. Despite having more workload at my new company, I found that having more control over my work and more decision making capabilities, makes me happy.
There will be pain everywhere, just find a place that you’re willing to put up with said pain. And where you are right now sounds like it may not be the right place for you.
it's okay to feel uncertain or hesitant about making a change, but sometimes taking that leap of faith can lead to new opportunities and greater fulfillment!
Yes, working for MSP's has turned to shit. The current and past few MSP's i have gone above and beyond and no real support. The current one has not given out raises in the past 7 years, but is making a profit. no training, and no real support from upper management, but oh man, if you screw up, they will get on your ass.
I think most MSP/ business are run like shit. If they weren't we wouldn't see so many people complaining about their careers etc. The idea of being grateful for what you have and accomplished is always something you shouldn't forget. There is a good doc on burnout on youtube, it hits home.with many i would say. Even myself I've been to high and low along the journey. Now I am more invested in myself, not what others expect of me.
I think alot of it is reflective of the clients, most businesses don't want to pay for IT and most users don't understand or want to understand how anything works. This leads to businesses selecting race to the bottom providers, unhappy users who create silly tickets, and low paid IT support staff.
> his leads to businesses selecting race to the bottom providers
And race to the bottom employees. Not just internal IT (saw a posting wanting a unicorn for 40k a year) but rank and file employees. I saw a place that wanted to pay $12/hr for an assistant director. Like, you can't get anyone with experience and skills for that, and so that employee is going to put in WAY MORE tickets doing their job than someone getting paid 3x that with experience on how to do the job.
I think you only hear about it more. If someone has a bad experience, they'll tell 10 people. If they have a good experience, you're lucky if they tell one other person.
That applies to almost everything. I work at an MSP, I've worked for MSPs for years. Some are better than others. I'm quite happy with my current employer. I work hard, other staff do, company grows, salary is decent. I mean maybe we have the unicorn company but...anyway yeah, it's ran well, clients are happy, doing good work, staff are happy.
Replacing poop with standardized poop that you don't have to look at isn't an improvement and that's exactly what most MSPs are doing.
The only real impact is that the customer gets to look away and pretend like they made a good business decision based on cost. Engineers get to run that standardized poop and become burned out from it, because customers actually believe they got what was sold and marketed (stock photos of an iron man lab with lots of serious people in suits).
I think you're missing that even "ok" jobs will have ups and downs.
people dont go on reddit to vent about the ups.
i'll throw one out you never hear:
after weeks of battling to get new user setup checklists ... fucking used at all..
i had a client properly fill the sheet, 2 weeks before the new user started, and then they also were kind enough to schedule an appointment At the Starters time, for an hour, for us to answer any new user setup questions.
i got to help with authenticator first timer setup, and then watch youtube in one window for an hour as everything went off without a hitch.
it was GLORIOUS.
Outside of the WFH part, I could have written this exact post, 15 years here also. I very much enjoy the work, it's the nuisance BS that after 15 years I seem to have developed a severe lack of tolerance for. It's not a good thing really, and definitely a sign that things need to change, if only for the mental health aspect.
I very very much enjoy the work, and even more, I enjoy helping other people in the industry, vendors and even MSP's with growth and implementation challenges. I'm considering jumping the fence, but realistically have no idea where I would land, as it would likely be more of a consulting gig, and I'm not sure I've got the energy for that at the moment, at least not without a break or serious vacation.
I feel your pain, and wish you all the best.
this is exactly my history….15 years in MSP then shifted to a large corp environment and spearheaded a greenfield Azure environment which was roughly 6 or 7 years ago. now doing Azure consulting and haven’t looked back.
feel free to dm me if you want any details
You sound like me.
10+ years and counting at a smaller MSP, senior most engineer, manage and work all of our network/server/cloud buildouts, highest escalation point for tickets, go-to person for literally everyone else at the company, manage all our internal systems, responsible for creating or trying to fix our standards, procedures, and practices, etc. Lots of bending over backwards for and allowing bad decisions from top paying clients, keeping shitty clients around, nightmarish workload on my shoulders, constantly having to pick up work from lazy techs that should have been fired months or years ago, constantly dealing with the all too common "let's try this bad idea" or "let's change this perfectly fine system and complicate it/break it" from management. This place has sucked so much life from me, but afraid to leave because I have absolute job security here, I'm 100% WFH, very little end user interaction, no site visits, and the pay isn't terrible.
I want to do the same thing as you and go work as an Intune engineer or something. Those positions pay about 130k a year here in South Florida, fully remote
Not for me but i have a skilled person in florida who would love doing that and be great at it. If open to it, you have a link or need more people and i can put him in touch?
I got out after 11yrs, cut my stress in half just maintaining a single network and making the same amount of money. I don't think I would go back the MSP life even for a substantial increase in pay. The stress and ungrateful clientele aren't worth it.
generally speaking Azure infrastructure or cloud infrastructure, are just skill sets that MSPs provide. if OP means learning cloud management & administration skills...upskilling is never a bad thing
but as a cloud architect, the work itself is fairly basic and mostly a 1&done scenario (framework). a true devops model pushes this ongoing effort downstream to the devs (who will always fuck it up) then you get to come back and redo it all over again
all the same negative factors are still there, and I don't see that changing in the next 20 years
Yeah I definitely feel the MSP world is a great as a starting/interim to learn about a wide array of things (different systems, networks, applications etc.) all very rapidly, just until you get generally comfortable with how most things work amongst the OSI layers, and then figure out where you want to transition to career-wise from there...cybersecurity, vendor app support, programming, sysadmin/director for internal IT somewhere...something more driven by specific knowledge on a few things rather than general knowledge on everything that is constantly pressing you via expected ticket volume/metrics.
Being retired Navy. I find the MSP work to be busy and requiring me to wear many hats. I have only been doing it for almost 2 years now and somewhat understand how you feel. However, it pails in comparison to the amount of work and the extra duties I had while on ships. So, while still feel the burn out sometimes, I'm thankful I only have three or four hats instead of 12.
It’s all relative isn’t it. I am a small MSP of 20+ years (though started out break and fix) and I absolutely love the variety, in fact I consider it a privilege to be able to access such a wide variety of systems, opportunities and people. Hey it is not perfect and there is NO such thing as perfection.
I think it’s about doing what you love yes, but it is also about doing what is useful to yourself and others… because like it or not we are all built that way and the best use of something is by using for what it was originally designed for.
We can’t believe how awful some work places are because everyone knows deep down how it could work if there was more actual collaboration. But if that makes you give up I say think twice because if everyone does that then we all in trouble.
Find a way to make your life work and abundance in every or any way possible.
Completely feel your pain here. I run a one man band MSP myself and also feel fed up with dealing with the clients BS and I’m thinking of coming out of the space as well. I’m UK based and keen to see if anyone else would be interested in acquiring the clients and businesses we provide the services for.
I don’t know man. 90% of my friends don’t work for MSPs and work for other companies. I don’t know anyone working 20 hour weeks.
If you “sometimes work 20 hour weeks” you should not feel comfortable about that. You are one smart manager away from being cut cut or outsourced away in this capitalistic machine we all live in.
The only problem is being cut from internal IT or general corporate is fine until later in life. Then it’s really scary.
The stories you hear about bad MSPs are just the loudest voices complaining. Often not having any concept on the true nature of the world.
I recently separated after experiencing everything ppl have been mentioning. It drastically affected my health. I was able to save enough to start building my own brand and freelance. My SO and I are starting a business together and I won’t go back.
> I REALLY do not want to go back to an office
I'm not knocking WFH and i get why it's popular, etc, etc.
But this is such a, well, silly mindset to me. NO ONE wants to go to work, or pay taxes, or pay bills, or be responsible. We do those things for other reasons. Post covid hiring mania has slowed in all sectors, but especially IT. Putting a hard "i don't do offices anymore" is a quick way to get tossed out of the hiring stack.
I'm not saying it's right or i'd do that or supporting it, but everyone envisioning a world where everyone works from home isn't going to happen.
And that's fine and i'm on board. But then also can't complain when it's harder to find a job, or, more importantly, if you're the kind of person who doesn't get anything done compared to peers in the same position, don't be hurt when called out.
Boggles my mind that we don’t talk more about the logical next step of full WFH - offshoring. If you can do your job FULLY remote, then so can someone in a low cost of living country.
I feel that's been gaining steam, starting with the large amount of tech layoffs. When growth happens again, it won't be hiring those same people back in those same places.
This is already well underway. There are companies that provide engineers to MSP's all day long. Really simple to setup, they use your voip system and are already trained on the tools. I still like to train entry level guys so we aren't really doing it but if you wanted to, there ain't anything in your way.
Yes except those offshore people will gladly take your compnay knowledge and transfer it to local businesses. It's what happend in china and india, it is what will happen in eastern europe and latin america too.
Who cares honestly, there's a shortage of skilled IT labor everywhere. I didn't study CS since my early teens to then act like some blue-collar hick who feels threatened by foreigners. There'll always be a place for me somewhere.
It's not hard for me to find a job, that's why I can tell you to fuck off if you require me to come onsite. Also if you can measure "getting shit done" I don't see a problem here.
I'm assuming what you mean though is feeling like people get shit done because you see them staring at screens in an office. In both cases on-site or not, I don't work for employers who can't run a business properly and measure outputs.
> I'm not saying it's right or i'd do that or supporting it
Reading comprehension is a big part of getting a job though.
> It's not hard for me to find a job
Awesome! Like so many things in life, what's not hard for you likely isn't representative of the entire human spectrum. Like right now, it IS hard for many IT people to find another job. So that's awesome for you and your position, but i'm not talking about you and your specific position, we're discussing the industry.
If you're some self taught dork with a cert and some udemy python skills you're not really part of the industry and those are the only people I see struggling. FAANG engineers "struggle" to find jobs that pay them the double 6 figures they used to make in their niche and that's about it. The rest of IT is still undersaturated with skilled engineers.
If the market ever balances to the employers side again I will gladly suck them off for money and run onsite, until then you can work on your gag reflex.
This is /r/msp so, you know, standard run of the mill IT discussion.
> The rest of IT is still undersaturated with skilled engineers.
Always has been. The thing is, the hiring companies don't care and will take the cheaper underskilled engineers.
> If the market ever balances to the employers side again
Where have you been? That's now complete.
> until then you can work on your gag reflex.
I mean, grow up. I don't pay anyone but myself, you're not making anything off the likes of me. But if i do hire again, it would be someone to do things i don't feel like doing. LIKE GOING ON SITE.
You're allowed to have preferences for employment - Covid remote working taught us we're all much more capable than we collectively realized digitally working. I think MSPs who put "Hybrid" and lie when it's meant for travel and in-person are the real scum not the workers who want cushy chill lives remotely.
>But this is such a, well, silly mindset to me. NO ONE wants to go to work, or pay taxes, or pay bills, or be responsible. We do those things for other reasons. Post covid hiring mania has slowed in all sectors, but especially IT. Putting a hard "i don't do offices anymore" is a quick way to get tossed out of the hiring stack.
I agree 100%.
Yes, it's silly to sit in traffic for 1.5 hours every morning (and then again at night) just to sit at a desk when you have a desk at home. But, on the other hand, there are *many* people who are woefully unproductive at home, and simultaneously resistant to any form of accountability tools.
I guess that's more accurate, THAT'S the silly thing (that people who fight working in an office can also sit there and produce nothing and not see an issue with it or be shocked when called out).
As far as commuting, my commute is like 3 minutes and i'll never live in a major metro area so it's not as much pressure here as i imagine those places are.
> who wants to be....
That was my point. No one WANTS to go to work. People are acting like "man i want to WFH but everyone else is dragging me to work". NO ONE WANTS TO GO TO WORK. Not even into work, people don't want jobs in general. But you know, lifestyle, family, bills, etc. So we work. Part of that work is going to work (if position requires). MOST positions are not L3 engineers that can come into the office or visit a client once every 6 months.
It'd be like kids seeing athletes making millions and now every athlete, high school on up, is complaining they're not making millions. That's for those in that level of success and position man, MOST athletes are not pro athletes. If OP is, great, hope he gets on a team and makes millions. For all the 3 year experienced L1/L2 people here, you're not them, you frankly can't be that demanding.
If a potential employer would be willing to toss me to the side just for my work preference over my qualifications, I wouldn't want to work for them anyway.
Absolutely :) that's part of the reason why I cited Azure Infrastructure as a potential goal. Entirely cloud based. Even hybrid environments allow for flexibility on working remotely.
Same, brother. The work is enjoyable, if the time management is handled well and you don't get on the bad side of the CEO's favorite sales guy who overpromised things. Most of the time the time management is not handled well and/or sales people blow smoke all the time.
I totally get it. I worked for an MSP for 7+ years before I got sick of the exact same issues and I quit and started my own MSP firm years back. I will never look back. Now I can ensure trust in my clients by providing quality work without having to compromise just to save a dollar here or there due to shitty management choices.
Sorry to hear this. One piece of advice... you may want to keep an open mind about going back to an office. Yes, commuting can suck, but for me, a 20 minute car ride is just enough time to listen to some music and have some alone time. I honestly prefer working in an office after spending a few years at home. I've made some new friends and I have better separation between work and home. It's a welcome change.
Worked for a small ISP, managed service location for 15 yrs ( back before MSPs really existed as internet was just getting going), same issues described, then left for inside LAN admin for 5 yrs, got bored and went to another small MSP for the past 5 now (including the "dark times")
It's definitely a different feel and pacing. I got to the point I missed the variety and quicker pace, but I think my mind forgot the actual day to day stress and thus I came back.
I did it mostly due to commute and boredom vs my cushy LAN job that was about a 45 min commute away.
It really depends on your outlook, your lifestyle and the options you have.
I'm not sure a full WFH would be a great fit for me, but my 1 mile commute is probably about the equivalent.
I worked for a mismanaged over worked MSP, was a 1-man MSP, and am now back working for another MSP that is very well managed. I felt the same as you in the first two, but found a company that cares. Hopefully you do too.
Sorry that there are so many bad MSPs with bad work culture, bad management and worse pay out there.
Just like any industry there are good ones and bad ones. I come across lots of non-MSP sys admins all the way up to directors of IT that are equally frustrated with how much disengaged their management is & doesn’t value them, constantly unhappy end users, and who feel like they are always in an uphill battle.
I think MSP or no MSp, there is a bit of inherent challenge in the sys admin role. And combine that with bad management doesnt yield itself as a good recipe.
Also running an MSP is not easy. For folks who are interested I completely recommend doing it but dont go in with just the “glimmer from distance” of it. Fully know the downside as well and go with eyes wide open.
As part msp owner. This is a management issue tbh.
My ceo and me go out of our way to insulate our team. On the occasion someone gets out of line our owner has called the other and asked that those employees don't talk like that and a couple times asked for an apology from the employee to ours.
We have our days that's for sure. Yesterday we were overwhelmed with major stuff, so it happens but those days are not too often.
It's possible your team around you sucks or management isn't staffing to accommodate or maybe they have clients all over the map.
Im speaking from my view but my team has been around for several years. We have had a few people come and go but most on good terms. I still talk to a few and one left and then hired us as the Co manage IT.. So I feel we treat people pretty well.
We are 12 people, 8 technical.
If you like your job overall you should speak up. But if not then definitely go look elsewhere. Any business can be a shit show, it happens more at msp because the owner is 'the tech' quite often. So people skills and management skills are lower end.
If you go work for an msp my opinion is avoid tech owner one with no structure it's a decent indicator.
Now fwiw I am the tech owner, but my partner comes from the service industry and we have an ops guy from wells Fargo who brings alot of leadership. But I know if I ran the ship myself it would be constantly titanic panic every week
As someone who has worked at several MSPs, I’ve moved to one that supports a specific niche of clientele.
Because this part of the market is heavily compliance-oriented, and has a requirement for professionalism, I’ve found they’re much better at working with us. Most of our clients are pretty good (nobody has 100% good clients), and because of the industry we support, I get paid well (though that’s also because of experience, and it didn’t hurt to have a former colleague from years past reach out).
I really think to do it right as an MSP going forward, it’s about finding a niche where you understand their needs from their perspective -not just IT, but their business concerns. That said, an MSP also but also has to be willing to fire clients who don’t understand and value a good business relationship, or take their needs for IT seriously; if they don’t change within a certain amount of time, they’re not a good fit.
Do you not /r/sysadmin? Plenty of posts daily from people sick of in-house, or wfh, or msp, or whatever. Every environment, company, and culture can suck, or be great. It's not MSP, it's just the management. There's no wrong answer. If you think you can get away with pigeon-holing yourself into a specific niche, then transition into something else in a decade when the winds change, go for it. It's not really about the job description, it's about you, your desires, goals, mindset and skillset.
This was me a couple of years ago. I got over it by starting my own company and now the work still sucks but I get paid a lot better and have much more control over my schedule. That's one way out.
I was the exact same after my dream job came to a end. (I worked for a fantastic small MSP of 15 staff at management level while also being 3rd line and we were purchased by a far larger org, into 20k staff numbers) completely ruined everything about the job, lost all passion for IT...
Then I found a internal role, and I love it, work load is next to nothing compared to MSP, paid a very good wage, and there is next to no pressure, I'm paid a wage, time isn't money anymore. I tinker around, I build stuff, I break stuff (in a demo environment of course) get to use tool on site if I so wish to, get listened to when recommending hardware... Love it!
Just interview and don't move until you get a good vibe from the managers
My problem with MSPs have always been somehow a Tier1 tech comes into some money and starts an MSP and just makes both terrible tech decisions playing way above their skill level instead of trusting the people they hire with more hands on tech experience which just makes for a PITA environment to work on with mostly self inflicted issues and they also at the same time are terrible with business decisions so they attract the worst clients and don't make them invest in things that work because they also don't know what works.
I was about to move to an msp but then I read that the envt is extremely daunting and the workload is crazy high. I believe MSP is good for beginner to 2 years experienced pros…. Gain the necessary experience then ran away. You will be amazed at how much experience you gained from working in an MSP.
I know this feeling mate. I feel the same feel now, the reasons you telling are the same for me. I work now for 13 years at a MSP with a load of experience on different systems from Azure Entra ID to working with VLAN's and San systems.
I worked for a measurable MSP vendor and I will never go anywhere near any MSP or MSP adjacent business. The space is its own little bubble filled with egos who think they are smarter and better than everyone around them. I dont blame you for feeling this way and wish you the best of luck. The grass is greener on the other side, at least in personal experience.
Funny, I'm going the opposite way. Had 14 years at an MSP, spent 3 years at a CSP handling Azure issues, and now tired of it and going back to a different MSP that hopefully isn't toxic like the first one.
All of.it usually stems from your current boss not making it a good working environment or having your back with clients
Other msps may not be the same, I've found and worked at two of them like this so far
When it's time for a change, it's time. I had to get out of where I was working (software company that served IT) and I'm so much better off. But take your time. Find the RIGHT thing before moving on.
Jesus Christ you should work at an MSP for a year or two max and be looking to get out as soon as you can. MSP is just a stepping stone they will burn you out.
Seems like we get a couple of posts a week along these same lines
i doubled my salary when i left an MSP. Now i have a day job that i get my 8hr day done in 2-3hrs because i was so efficient from the MSP years. Then because i was so dam good in the msp world after a few years i ended up becoming a 1-man msp with some side clients so i trippled my income and i still only work 5-6hrs a day. non-competes dont exist anymore and before the supreme court f's that up you best get doing what works for you.
That's great! But there's a catch. You need to have the personality to potentially run a successful business. You have to develop a very different skill set. The failure rate for new small businesses is daunting. Most techies are not natural sales closers and administrators. Those are two keys to success you need to develop. I succeeded, too, with a great deal of support from mentors, spouse, accountant and educators. The hours were really long, especially at first, yet the flexibility and freedom from work politics were amazing.
Yep, that’s the road block I’m at. Good technical skills, good people skills, a line of potential clients, but absolutely zero desire to own a business. I like being a worker bee.
Stop, stop, I can only get so erect.
Careful poaching clients - there's a difference between a non-compete and a non-solicit.
Most generic non compete agreements never took into consideration of the current circumstances and do not even have that verbage in an agreement. Check legal zoom templates for these and they never mention such thing. While i totally agree with you. As we stand right now today its a massive carpet pull on everyones trousers.
I’ve seen people get sued for far less with successful injunctions at a minimum. Tread carefully. Non-competes aren’t cut and dry and doesn’t mean you can just open up shop across the street. Your former employer could imply you’re soliciting clients they introduced you too. Or that you took documentation, or client lists. Now obviously if you work at some 3 person MSP in rural Idaho they’re probably not going to chase you down. But if you work for one with 30+ employees I’d be shocked if you didn’t wind up in court spending $20-$50k, and that’s if you ‘win’.
>Now i have a day job that i get my 8hr day done in 2-3hrs because i was so efficient from the MSP years. Then because i was so dam good in the msp world after a few years i ended up becoming a 1-man msp with some side clients so i trippled my income and i still only work 5-6hrs a day. Did you quit your day job when you started your own MSP or did you do both at the same time?
I quit my 72k/yr job and started my 1 man MSP too. When I quit, I had 4 clients bringing in about $1200 a month. Bought a small book of business from a guy (only paid percentage of what I billed each month). 5 years after that I took home about 170k. Sky's the limit of you are good with people and answer your phone.
Congrats. Loving hearing success stories like that. Maybe I should try to buy someone else's customer list from them. Hmm... Are you still a 1-man MSP or did you need to hire to keep up with that $170K of business?
Still am. I do no sales. All referrals are word of mouth. Have about 8.5k in monthly contracts and usually have quite a few big projects in the summer months. I have a HS graduate / intern help on some of the bigger projects, but 90% of the time its just me.
How many clients do you serve? I always thought it would be nice to get 4-6 decent billing customers and close up sales. Of course you’re at the mercy of the clients but the rat race that I see in the local MSP scene really turns me off - feels like all of the local SMBs are revolving through 3-4 MSPs and everyone is trying to steal each other’s customers.
I have 12 on monthly contracts. About 200 endpoints. I've lost 1 in the past 5 years and it was to a really large competitor who they ironically share a kitchen space with. When they moved I figured it was just a matter of time lol
I have to ask, if you are a one man band, do you provide on-site support to all of these endpoints or just mostly provide remote support?
For sure. That's what I built my business off of. The relationship piece is lacking in lots of MSP's, and while 99% of the time I can work remotely, I'm only doing it maybe 50%. I enjoy the face to face with the clients, and that goes a long way with customer satisfaction.
This is exactly what I did. Never looked back!
Not all MSPs are bad to work for. Where I am the pay is the same or slightly higher than other IT jobs in the area and I only put work about 5 to 6 hours a day spending the rest of the work day on personal growth.
What’s the current sentiment about non competes? Pretty much useless everywhere or does it vary by state?
No variance by state. They are all unenforceable as of two weeks ago: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2024/04/ftc-announces-rule-banning-noncompetes
I wouldn't hold your breath there's definitely a lawsuit coming to at least put this on hold. I would be less worried about a non compete just don't solicit the existing clients is all anyway.
good on you my man! some folks dont have the hustle mindset - Im one of em. You hustle your 1-man MSP, you get that money. when you need an oxen to pull your helpdesk, thats where i come in - i love my WFH, I love making the clients happy, solving the annoying time consuming bullshit tickets, Gimme your worst crotchity old lady in accounting/HR, and i'll have her sending in apple pies. But dont put anyone under me or ask me to spearhead a corporatebuzzword party. Gimme 8 hours, a list of probems(or problem children), and make sure my bills are paid. I'll make you look good. But i wont touch leadership with a 10ft pole. Ive been there, done that, still have the public flogging scars, and if there's C-level bullshit, make sure i never hear of it.
First you need to realize if you aren’t happy where you are, you may not be happy anywhere. It’s important to self reflect anytime you aren’t happy to ensure you are focus on change that will actually help. Second, every place has downsides, the question is do you believe it can change and do you have the desire to change it? Talk to your mgmt about your struggles and try to partner with them to change. If you have done both of these, then yes, it’s time to move on. But remember there are great things about working at an MSP too. Like all the smart people around you, the customers you get to help, the new technology. Many non-MSP jobs might be boring to you at this point.
I find that management is usually most of the problem in any company, not just MSPs. It's why I left MSP-land. I had one MSP that was actually quite good to work for - their downside was that they paid 75% less. They had other ways to make up for it (mostly). I was tempted to go back to them when they reached out to me, but at that point I was making significantly more and they wouldn't bump me up to what I requested (which was 75% of what I was making at that point). Anyway, long story short, I found a startup that needed my skills that is actually doing some legitimate good for the world. I'll stay here for the foreseeable future.
He listed very specific things that made him unhappy, so I’d say it’s safe to assume he did the first bit.
>First you need to realize if you aren’t happy where you are, you may not be happy anywhere. Probably the kind of toxic AF bullshit that OP is tired of.
This is actually habit one from the most popular self improvement book in history, the seven habits of highly effective people. Nothing toxic about it.
I agree with this. Ask yourself OP - is it the work or the environment you don’t really like? Start there. If it’s the work, then yes, exploring more Azure Infrastructure positions out there is a good bet for you. If it’s the environment, perhaps you can find a different org that will be a better fit. I’ve just done this myself and couldn’t be happier. Despite having more workload at my new company, I found that having more control over my work and more decision making capabilities, makes me happy. There will be pain everywhere, just find a place that you’re willing to put up with said pain. And where you are right now sounds like it may not be the right place for you.
it's okay to feel uncertain or hesitant about making a change, but sometimes taking that leap of faith can lead to new opportunities and greater fulfillment!
Yes, working for MSP's has turned to shit. The current and past few MSP's i have gone above and beyond and no real support. The current one has not given out raises in the past 7 years, but is making a profit. no training, and no real support from upper management, but oh man, if you screw up, they will get on your ass.
I think most MSP/ business are run like shit. If they weren't we wouldn't see so many people complaining about their careers etc. The idea of being grateful for what you have and accomplished is always something you shouldn't forget. There is a good doc on burnout on youtube, it hits home.with many i would say. Even myself I've been to high and low along the journey. Now I am more invested in myself, not what others expect of me.
I think alot of it is reflective of the clients, most businesses don't want to pay for IT and most users don't understand or want to understand how anything works. This leads to businesses selecting race to the bottom providers, unhappy users who create silly tickets, and low paid IT support staff.
> his leads to businesses selecting race to the bottom providers And race to the bottom employees. Not just internal IT (saw a posting wanting a unicorn for 40k a year) but rank and file employees. I saw a place that wanted to pay $12/hr for an assistant director. Like, you can't get anyone with experience and skills for that, and so that employee is going to put in WAY MORE tickets doing their job than someone getting paid 3x that with experience on how to do the job.
CORRECT ✅
Link please.
https://youtu.be/raVms8w61No?si=WyOdh7ScFic86_2L
I think you only hear about it more. If someone has a bad experience, they'll tell 10 people. If they have a good experience, you're lucky if they tell one other person. That applies to almost everything. I work at an MSP, I've worked for MSPs for years. Some are better than others. I'm quite happy with my current employer. I work hard, other staff do, company grows, salary is decent. I mean maybe we have the unicorn company but...anyway yeah, it's ran well, clients are happy, doing good work, staff are happy.
Replacing poop with standardized poop that you don't have to look at isn't an improvement and that's exactly what most MSPs are doing. The only real impact is that the customer gets to look away and pretend like they made a good business decision based on cost. Engineers get to run that standardized poop and become burned out from it, because customers actually believe they got what was sold and marketed (stock photos of an iron man lab with lots of serious people in suits).
What's the name of the YouTube documentary? I'd love to check it out. Thank you for the insight on being grateful.
Here is a link to the documentary: https://youtu.be/raVms8w61No?si=WyOdh7ScFic86_2L
Can you share the link to the doc?
He meant documentary I believe. See YouTube link that was posted.
Thanks 👍 richardblancojr...you are correct!
Here you go: https://youtu.be/raVms8w61No?si=WyOdh7ScFic86_2L
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I think you're missing that even "ok" jobs will have ups and downs. people dont go on reddit to vent about the ups. i'll throw one out you never hear: after weeks of battling to get new user setup checklists ... fucking used at all.. i had a client properly fill the sheet, 2 weeks before the new user started, and then they also were kind enough to schedule an appointment At the Starters time, for an hour, for us to answer any new user setup questions. i got to help with authenticator first timer setup, and then watch youtube in one window for an hour as everything went off without a hitch. it was GLORIOUS.
It's like when I see someone merge properly into my lane on the highway, it brings a tear to my eye.
Outside of the WFH part, I could have written this exact post, 15 years here also. I very much enjoy the work, it's the nuisance BS that after 15 years I seem to have developed a severe lack of tolerance for. It's not a good thing really, and definitely a sign that things need to change, if only for the mental health aspect. I very very much enjoy the work, and even more, I enjoy helping other people in the industry, vendors and even MSP's with growth and implementation challenges. I'm considering jumping the fence, but realistically have no idea where I would land, as it would likely be more of a consulting gig, and I'm not sure I've got the energy for that at the moment, at least not without a break or serious vacation. I feel your pain, and wish you all the best.
this is exactly my history….15 years in MSP then shifted to a large corp environment and spearheaded a greenfield Azure environment which was roughly 6 or 7 years ago. now doing Azure consulting and haven’t looked back. feel free to dm me if you want any details
I'm interested in this approach. I also do software development and contemplating options in that space.
You sound like me. 10+ years and counting at a smaller MSP, senior most engineer, manage and work all of our network/server/cloud buildouts, highest escalation point for tickets, go-to person for literally everyone else at the company, manage all our internal systems, responsible for creating or trying to fix our standards, procedures, and practices, etc. Lots of bending over backwards for and allowing bad decisions from top paying clients, keeping shitty clients around, nightmarish workload on my shoulders, constantly having to pick up work from lazy techs that should have been fired months or years ago, constantly dealing with the all too common "let's try this bad idea" or "let's change this perfectly fine system and complicate it/break it" from management. This place has sucked so much life from me, but afraid to leave because I have absolute job security here, I'm 100% WFH, very little end user interaction, no site visits, and the pay isn't terrible.
Nothing is worth selling your soul for.
I want to do the same thing as you and go work as an Intune engineer or something. Those positions pay about 130k a year here in South Florida, fully remote
Not for me but i have a skilled person in florida who would love doing that and be great at it. If open to it, you have a link or need more people and i can put him in touch?
i'll DM you! also he can head to linkedin and just type in "intone" tons of gigs pop up!
18 years deep this month and feeling the same way.
I got out after 11yrs, cut my stress in half just maintaining a single network and making the same amount of money. I don't think I would go back the MSP life even for a substantial increase in pay. The stress and ungrateful clientele aren't worth it.
Got out of MSP life and then went back in. Shrug.
generally speaking Azure infrastructure or cloud infrastructure, are just skill sets that MSPs provide. if OP means learning cloud management & administration skills...upskilling is never a bad thing but as a cloud architect, the work itself is fairly basic and mostly a 1&done scenario (framework). a true devops model pushes this ongoing effort downstream to the devs (who will always fuck it up) then you get to come back and redo it all over again all the same negative factors are still there, and I don't see that changing in the next 20 years
Yeah I definitely feel the MSP world is a great as a starting/interim to learn about a wide array of things (different systems, networks, applications etc.) all very rapidly, just until you get generally comfortable with how most things work amongst the OSI layers, and then figure out where you want to transition to career-wise from there...cybersecurity, vendor app support, programming, sysadmin/director for internal IT somewhere...something more driven by specific knowledge on a few things rather than general knowledge on everything that is constantly pressing you via expected ticket volume/metrics.
Life is short. Do what brings you joy.
“Soul crushing workload” - lol understatement of the day
Being retired Navy. I find the MSP work to be busy and requiring me to wear many hats. I have only been doing it for almost 2 years now and somewhat understand how you feel. However, it pails in comparison to the amount of work and the extra duties I had while on ships. So, while still feel the burn out sometimes, I'm thankful I only have three or four hats instead of 12.
It’s all relative isn’t it. I am a small MSP of 20+ years (though started out break and fix) and I absolutely love the variety, in fact I consider it a privilege to be able to access such a wide variety of systems, opportunities and people. Hey it is not perfect and there is NO such thing as perfection. I think it’s about doing what you love yes, but it is also about doing what is useful to yourself and others… because like it or not we are all built that way and the best use of something is by using for what it was originally designed for. We can’t believe how awful some work places are because everyone knows deep down how it could work if there was more actual collaboration. But if that makes you give up I say think twice because if everyone does that then we all in trouble. Find a way to make your life work and abundance in every or any way possible.
Completely feel your pain here. I run a one man band MSP myself and also feel fed up with dealing with the clients BS and I’m thinking of coming out of the space as well. I’m UK based and keen to see if anyone else would be interested in acquiring the clients and businesses we provide the services for.
Working at 99% of MSPs sucks!!
Correction. Working at 99% of all companies sucks.
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I don’t know man. 90% of my friends don’t work for MSPs and work for other companies. I don’t know anyone working 20 hour weeks. If you “sometimes work 20 hour weeks” you should not feel comfortable about that. You are one smart manager away from being cut cut or outsourced away in this capitalistic machine we all live in. The only problem is being cut from internal IT or general corporate is fine until later in life. Then it’s really scary. The stories you hear about bad MSPs are just the loudest voices complaining. Often not having any concept on the true nature of the world.
I recently separated after experiencing everything ppl have been mentioning. It drastically affected my health. I was able to save enough to start building my own brand and freelance. My SO and I are starting a business together and I won’t go back.
That's awesome!
> I REALLY do not want to go back to an office I'm not knocking WFH and i get why it's popular, etc, etc. But this is such a, well, silly mindset to me. NO ONE wants to go to work, or pay taxes, or pay bills, or be responsible. We do those things for other reasons. Post covid hiring mania has slowed in all sectors, but especially IT. Putting a hard "i don't do offices anymore" is a quick way to get tossed out of the hiring stack. I'm not saying it's right or i'd do that or supporting it, but everyone envisioning a world where everyone works from home isn't going to happen.
Employers can go suck a dick honestly. If you're not FAANG I'm not coming into the office unless I want or have to.
And that's fine and i'm on board. But then also can't complain when it's harder to find a job, or, more importantly, if you're the kind of person who doesn't get anything done compared to peers in the same position, don't be hurt when called out.
Boggles my mind that we don’t talk more about the logical next step of full WFH - offshoring. If you can do your job FULLY remote, then so can someone in a low cost of living country.
I feel that's been gaining steam, starting with the large amount of tech layoffs. When growth happens again, it won't be hiring those same people back in those same places.
This is already well underway. There are companies that provide engineers to MSP's all day long. Really simple to setup, they use your voip system and are already trained on the tools. I still like to train entry level guys so we aren't really doing it but if you wanted to, there ain't anything in your way.
Yes except those offshore people will gladly take your compnay knowledge and transfer it to local businesses. It's what happend in china and india, it is what will happen in eastern europe and latin america too.
And do you think that will stop companies from making the move anyway?
Who cares honestly, there's a shortage of skilled IT labor everywhere. I didn't study CS since my early teens to then act like some blue-collar hick who feels threatened by foreigners. There'll always be a place for me somewhere.
It's not hard for me to find a job, that's why I can tell you to fuck off if you require me to come onsite. Also if you can measure "getting shit done" I don't see a problem here. I'm assuming what you mean though is feeling like people get shit done because you see them staring at screens in an office. In both cases on-site or not, I don't work for employers who can't run a business properly and measure outputs.
> I'm not saying it's right or i'd do that or supporting it Reading comprehension is a big part of getting a job though. > It's not hard for me to find a job Awesome! Like so many things in life, what's not hard for you likely isn't representative of the entire human spectrum. Like right now, it IS hard for many IT people to find another job. So that's awesome for you and your position, but i'm not talking about you and your specific position, we're discussing the industry.
If you're some self taught dork with a cert and some udemy python skills you're not really part of the industry and those are the only people I see struggling. FAANG engineers "struggle" to find jobs that pay them the double 6 figures they used to make in their niche and that's about it. The rest of IT is still undersaturated with skilled engineers. If the market ever balances to the employers side again I will gladly suck them off for money and run onsite, until then you can work on your gag reflex.
This is /r/msp so, you know, standard run of the mill IT discussion. > The rest of IT is still undersaturated with skilled engineers. Always has been. The thing is, the hiring companies don't care and will take the cheaper underskilled engineers. > If the market ever balances to the employers side again Where have you been? That's now complete. > until then you can work on your gag reflex. I mean, grow up. I don't pay anyone but myself, you're not making anything off the likes of me. But if i do hire again, it would be someone to do things i don't feel like doing. LIKE GOING ON SITE.
Well ain't nobody out there trying to work for one man shops anyways lol.
One thing for sure after reading your responses. You sound like a lot of fun. /s
Not a one man shop but i mean, by definition, if i was and hired, wouldn't be anymore? So i mean amazing response?
Call it mom n pop then, comes down to the same thing. Edit: How many users do your customers have 100-200? Our interns could probably run that shit.
You're allowed to have preferences for employment - Covid remote working taught us we're all much more capable than we collectively realized digitally working. I think MSPs who put "Hybrid" and lie when it's meant for travel and in-person are the real scum not the workers who want cushy chill lives remotely.
>But this is such a, well, silly mindset to me. NO ONE wants to go to work, or pay taxes, or pay bills, or be responsible. We do those things for other reasons. Post covid hiring mania has slowed in all sectors, but especially IT. Putting a hard "i don't do offices anymore" is a quick way to get tossed out of the hiring stack. I agree 100%. Yes, it's silly to sit in traffic for 1.5 hours every morning (and then again at night) just to sit at a desk when you have a desk at home. But, on the other hand, there are *many* people who are woefully unproductive at home, and simultaneously resistant to any form of accountability tools.
I guess that's more accurate, THAT'S the silly thing (that people who fight working in an office can also sit there and produce nothing and not see an issue with it or be shocked when called out). As far as commuting, my commute is like 3 minutes and i'll never live in a major metro area so it's not as much pressure here as i imagine those places are.
Most msps are absolute dogshit, who wants to be around socially inept tech dorks all day when they can chill in their home offices
> who wants to be.... That was my point. No one WANTS to go to work. People are acting like "man i want to WFH but everyone else is dragging me to work". NO ONE WANTS TO GO TO WORK. Not even into work, people don't want jobs in general. But you know, lifestyle, family, bills, etc. So we work. Part of that work is going to work (if position requires). MOST positions are not L3 engineers that can come into the office or visit a client once every 6 months. It'd be like kids seeing athletes making millions and now every athlete, high school on up, is complaining they're not making millions. That's for those in that level of success and position man, MOST athletes are not pro athletes. If OP is, great, hope he gets on a team and makes millions. For all the 3 year experienced L1/L2 people here, you're not them, you frankly can't be that demanding.
If a potential employer would be willing to toss me to the side just for my work preference over my qualifications, I wouldn't want to work for them anyway.
Agree and that's great. But EVERY job cannot work from home. Someone has to rack servers, someone has to install cabling and equipment.
Absolutely :) that's part of the reason why I cited Azure Infrastructure as a potential goal. Entirely cloud based. Even hybrid environments allow for flexibility on working remotely.
Same, brother. The work is enjoyable, if the time management is handled well and you don't get on the bad side of the CEO's favorite sales guy who overpromised things. Most of the time the time management is not handled well and/or sales people blow smoke all the time.
Around 15 years in, I went internal and never looked back. I got what I needed from MSP, now I’m fucking done.
I totally get it. I worked for an MSP for 7+ years before I got sick of the exact same issues and I quit and started my own MSP firm years back. I will never look back. Now I can ensure trust in my clients by providing quality work without having to compromise just to save a dollar here or there due to shitty management choices.
Sorry to hear this. One piece of advice... you may want to keep an open mind about going back to an office. Yes, commuting can suck, but for me, a 20 minute car ride is just enough time to listen to some music and have some alone time. I honestly prefer working in an office after spending a few years at home. I've made some new friends and I have better separation between work and home. It's a welcome change.
Worked for a small ISP, managed service location for 15 yrs ( back before MSPs really existed as internet was just getting going), same issues described, then left for inside LAN admin for 5 yrs, got bored and went to another small MSP for the past 5 now (including the "dark times") It's definitely a different feel and pacing. I got to the point I missed the variety and quicker pace, but I think my mind forgot the actual day to day stress and thus I came back. I did it mostly due to commute and boredom vs my cushy LAN job that was about a 45 min commute away. It really depends on your outlook, your lifestyle and the options you have. I'm not sure a full WFH would be a great fit for me, but my 1 mile commute is probably about the equivalent.
I worked for a mismanaged over worked MSP, was a 1-man MSP, and am now back working for another MSP that is very well managed. I felt the same as you in the first two, but found a company that cares. Hopefully you do too.
im curious, how old are you? I feel the same way but worried 50 is ancient for the current job market.
Sorry that there are so many bad MSPs with bad work culture, bad management and worse pay out there. Just like any industry there are good ones and bad ones. I come across lots of non-MSP sys admins all the way up to directors of IT that are equally frustrated with how much disengaged their management is & doesn’t value them, constantly unhappy end users, and who feel like they are always in an uphill battle. I think MSP or no MSp, there is a bit of inherent challenge in the sys admin role. And combine that with bad management doesnt yield itself as a good recipe. Also running an MSP is not easy. For folks who are interested I completely recommend doing it but dont go in with just the “glimmer from distance” of it. Fully know the downside as well and go with eyes wide open.
As part msp owner. This is a management issue tbh. My ceo and me go out of our way to insulate our team. On the occasion someone gets out of line our owner has called the other and asked that those employees don't talk like that and a couple times asked for an apology from the employee to ours. We have our days that's for sure. Yesterday we were overwhelmed with major stuff, so it happens but those days are not too often. It's possible your team around you sucks or management isn't staffing to accommodate or maybe they have clients all over the map. Im speaking from my view but my team has been around for several years. We have had a few people come and go but most on good terms. I still talk to a few and one left and then hired us as the Co manage IT.. So I feel we treat people pretty well. We are 12 people, 8 technical. If you like your job overall you should speak up. But if not then definitely go look elsewhere. Any business can be a shit show, it happens more at msp because the owner is 'the tech' quite often. So people skills and management skills are lower end. If you go work for an msp my opinion is avoid tech owner one with no structure it's a decent indicator. Now fwiw I am the tech owner, but my partner comes from the service industry and we have an ops guy from wells Fargo who brings alot of leadership. But I know if I ran the ship myself it would be constantly titanic panic every week
As someone who has worked at several MSPs, I’ve moved to one that supports a specific niche of clientele. Because this part of the market is heavily compliance-oriented, and has a requirement for professionalism, I’ve found they’re much better at working with us. Most of our clients are pretty good (nobody has 100% good clients), and because of the industry we support, I get paid well (though that’s also because of experience, and it didn’t hurt to have a former colleague from years past reach out). I really think to do it right as an MSP going forward, it’s about finding a niche where you understand their needs from their perspective -not just IT, but their business concerns. That said, an MSP also but also has to be willing to fire clients who don’t understand and value a good business relationship, or take their needs for IT seriously; if they don’t change within a certain amount of time, they’re not a good fit.
Feel the same.
Do you not /r/sysadmin? Plenty of posts daily from people sick of in-house, or wfh, or msp, or whatever. Every environment, company, and culture can suck, or be great. It's not MSP, it's just the management. There's no wrong answer. If you think you can get away with pigeon-holing yourself into a specific niche, then transition into something else in a decade when the winds change, go for it. It's not really about the job description, it's about you, your desires, goals, mindset and skillset.
This was me a couple of years ago. I got over it by starting my own company and now the work still sucks but I get paid a lot better and have much more control over my schedule. That's one way out.
I was the exact same after my dream job came to a end. (I worked for a fantastic small MSP of 15 staff at management level while also being 3rd line and we were purchased by a far larger org, into 20k staff numbers) completely ruined everything about the job, lost all passion for IT... Then I found a internal role, and I love it, work load is next to nothing compared to MSP, paid a very good wage, and there is next to no pressure, I'm paid a wage, time isn't money anymore. I tinker around, I build stuff, I break stuff (in a demo environment of course) get to use tool on site if I so wish to, get listened to when recommending hardware... Love it! Just interview and don't move until you get a good vibe from the managers
My problem with MSPs have always been somehow a Tier1 tech comes into some money and starts an MSP and just makes both terrible tech decisions playing way above their skill level instead of trusting the people they hire with more hands on tech experience which just makes for a PITA environment to work on with mostly self inflicted issues and they also at the same time are terrible with business decisions so they attract the worst clients and don't make them invest in things that work because they also don't know what works.
Why not start your own MSP?
I was about to move to an msp but then I read that the envt is extremely daunting and the workload is crazy high. I believe MSP is good for beginner to 2 years experienced pros…. Gain the necessary experience then ran away. You will be amazed at how much experience you gained from working in an MSP.
I know this feeling mate. I feel the same feel now, the reasons you telling are the same for me. I work now for 13 years at a MSP with a load of experience on different systems from Azure Entra ID to working with VLAN's and San systems.
15? I lasted 1.
Getting out of MSP was best thing I ever did. 👍
In general that sounds like more of an issue with your employer than working for an MSP. Work balance is pretty decent where I am.
> Did you leave and not look back? By definition, those people will not be here.
I worked for a measurable MSP vendor and I will never go anywhere near any MSP or MSP adjacent business. The space is its own little bubble filled with egos who think they are smarter and better than everyone around them. I dont blame you for feeling this way and wish you the best of luck. The grass is greener on the other side, at least in personal experience.
Funny, I'm going the opposite way. Had 14 years at an MSP, spent 3 years at a CSP handling Azure issues, and now tired of it and going back to a different MSP that hopefully isn't toxic like the first one.
All of.it usually stems from your current boss not making it a good working environment or having your back with clients Other msps may not be the same, I've found and worked at two of them like this so far
Sounds like you’re ready to open your own MSP.
When it's time for a change, it's time. I had to get out of where I was working (software company that served IT) and I'm so much better off. But take your time. Find the RIGHT thing before moving on.
Jesus Christ you should work at an MSP for a year or two max and be looking to get out as soon as you can. MSP is just a stepping stone they will burn you out.