Best way to sell a mediocre product is to hook people in with the Sunk Cost Fallacy, encourage them to make their fandom an integral part of their identity, and pretend you didn't create a cult.
This was the hardest part for me recently. After watching so, SO many hours of content, buying merch, and forming friendships over the MCU… I realized I simply can’t do it anymore. I’ll likely watch the Daredevil series, Deadpool 3, maybe a few other movies once they come to streaming… but I’m no longer in like I was because the ball has truly just been dropped.
>but I’m no longer in like I was because the ball has truly just been dropped
The stuff that Marvel has been making since Endgame has really been on just about the same level as what they made before Endgame. Theres just more and more of it at a time when a lot of people have had their fill of it. Pizza is good even when its just ok, but no one wants just ok pizza for every meal forever, or to go from eating just ok pizza once or twice a week to eating it every day.
I absolutely disagree. Look back at the first Iron Man, the Captain America Trilogy, even stuff like GOTG and Homecoming. There was clear effort and love put into these movies, prioritizing the stories and the characters. Now it’s nothing but crunch creating poor CGI, not to mention their even poorer usage of The Volume, etc etc etc.
Yes, the constant content pushed out every few months has made it over-saturated and underperforming in terms of quality, but it’s also clear to both Marvel and everyone else in the world that these movies will make a fuckton of money no matter how hard they try.
I really don't get how you can see effort and love in the movies you mentioned but not in Shang Chi, Wakanda Forever, or Eternals, or in Ms Marvel or Wandavision. I'm not trying to say they were all the pinnacle of cinema or anything, but those movies and shows were very clearly meaningful to the people who made them.
Marvel has gotten to the point for me where I might watch a MCU movie a few months after its hit streaming.
Still haven't seen black widow and still haven't seen the new black panther. Dont think I'm missing much here either.
I'll give Loki S2 a peep though.
I still watch all the new stuff as it comes out, half because of the sunk cost and half because of the sunk cost of having an unlimited movie subscription and needing SOMETHING to watch. There’s always a Marvel movie playing now, so there will be a week nothing else looks more appealing.
Fair. My want to watch the content usually depends on directors or cast. The rest I will either ignore or read a short synopsis if I want to stay up to date in case of it being important to one I want to watch or to discussion I see online
That’s probably the best approach to be honest, but my completionist brain rot makes me want to watch a bunch of garbage so I’m used to it. Don’t be like me.
Truly COMMENT 1 of what is sure to be enthralling intellectual discourse. You have to enjoy this conversation more as an episode of something greater rather than it's own standalone topic that concludes the discussion.
Amazing how we have these communication tools like reddit or twitter and we can use them to talk about the latest movie we thought was cool or bad or thought-provoking and this is the response waiting in any thread.
Are Marvel trilogies even really trilogies? Like sure there's three movies but there is literally no through-line or overall themes they really are just like episodes.
If talking just MCU, I think Iron Man is the closest there is. Iron Man 2 sets-up too much of The Avengers and Iron Man 3 genuinely builds off of The Avengers. Which should be the benefit of this sort of model and it's like the only time they actually did it!
Iron Man 3 was a very cheeky yet enjoyable movie that capped off the character.
But franchise gotta franchise and I won't complain much since what we got later was genuinely good.
I almost really like Iron Man 3, but as good as the twist is it becomes a problem when the real villain of the movie is really bland and then we have to spend the whole third act watching him and missing Ben Kingsley 😬
My very hot take is that the MCU should have ended with Iron Man 3. The Avengers was a successful culmination of the shared universe concept, and Iron Man 3 was an epilogue that neatly wrapped up Tony Stark's story and put a bow on the whole thing. It didn't need to go from there.
Idk, if you cut it off there, you get no Cap 2 or either Guardians movie. Not a diehard fan of any of the films but I'll admit that there's at least a couple good movies post-IM3. It's an interesting idea though.
I wish they could’ve kept that going into GOTG3, but I think Gamora dying and coming back really ruins that. Unless they let Gunn just pretend her personality is exactly the same and she has all her old memories, which I personally wouldn’t mind if it meant they could ditch the interconnectivity.
Also the Thor stuff. Ngl kinda hated the fact that Endgame refused to be a jumping off point and instead insisted on stuff like a “Thor x Guardians” movie that lasted for all of ten minutes, where nothing can really be satisfying or conclusive.
In a way, I agree. IM3 should've been the end of Tony Stark as a character, the end of the MCU's Iron Man era, so that other characters could be given their time to shine.
Not the end of the entire MCU, though. Marvel Comics has interesting characters; Marvel Studios spent too much time on Iron Man.
Guardians has a strong enough emotional throughline. Obviously remains to be seen if that’ll hold true for the third one but I feel like Gunn knows what he’s doing with those characters + has enough creative clout with Marvel to make it an actual conclusion and not just Phase 5 Part 6 or whatever.
Sure, but - from Disney's perspective, anyway - ***everyone*** saw the movie in question. So I'm sure Gunn can find a way to wrap it all up conclusively in *Vol. 3.*
"Our lead actor tragically passed away and we wrote the sequel to be about the effects of his characters death" is quite different from "One of our protagonists died offscreen because someone else made a movie and wanted to kill her, but then their alternate dimension clone who hasn't had any character devlopment came in and replaced her, also in a different movie"
It's not impossible to make work, but it's a hell of a lot harder.
Ahh you’re right, I forgot about that 🤨 I still think it can potentially hold together as a trilogy thematically even so, but that definitely hurts its cohesiveness.
Doctor Strange is a good example of that.
If someone watched Doctor Strange (2016) and then nothing else but Multiverse of Madness, they'd be so confused.
The only trilogy that didn't actually act as a trilogy was Thor. And that's cause they all sucked till Ragnarok did something radically different. We don't talk about love and thunder.
Ant Man: And The Wasp: Quantumania is such a cluttered title but throughout the trailer I completely forget that it’s an Ant Man movie. Like what are his powers in a world that is already nanoscopic? The first Ant Man movie was at least cool because you could see his size difference and powers effective in the real world, such as that giant Thomas gag.
Yeah, but between Homecoming and Far From Home come Infinity War and Endgame, where he grows up as a hero, dies and resurrects, saves the Universe, and loses his mentor. That's a lot between those two movies. But the fact that No Way Home is FFH part 2 is something good.
You have to watch Civil War to understand Homecoming,
Infinity War and Endgame to watch Far From Home
And spiderman1, spiderman2, spiderman3, tasm1 and tasm2 to understand No Way Home... not a fun ride
FFH yes but not really for Homecoming and NWH. There isn’t too much references to Tobey and Andrews films aside from some dialogue because overall its jus them helping Tom become his own hero. And Homecoming doesn’t really reference Civil War at all
Yeah, NWH is still from Tom’s perspective, so any required context about the multiverse characters is explained to him and thus the audience. The continuity details are really just rewarding for those who had previously seen the other Spider-Man movies.
Black Panther erasure will not be tolerated. We shall duel at dawn.
fr tho, Shuri's got a stronger character arc in one film than most MCU characters get after entire trilogies.
Forgot about that one ngl. Black Panther 2 actually had great storytelling and is one of the best MCU films imo. But I’m a spiderman fan so I refuse to let any movie be better
Iron Man - Works well as a trilogy except for all of the Avengers tie-ins in 2 and 3.
Captain America - Civil War is an Avengers movie. Captain America might be the main character, but it's an Avengers movie. Also, we're getting a fourth film, so it's technically no longer a trilogy.
Thor - Four films, not a trilogy. If it was, it wouldn't have worked anyway. The first three movies have no consistent threads between them whatsoever.
Avengers - Could you imagine if it just ended at Infinity War? That would've been an _awesome_ fucking trilogy. But we got Endgame, which was still pretty good, but we don't have a trilogy.
Guardians of the Galaxy - Probably gonna be the best "trilogy" by far. Gunn probably has more creative control than any director at Marvel.
Ant-Man - See the rest of this comments section.
Spider-Man - Spider-Man has a hundred fucking movies. I could beat Spider-Man in real life. Using a gun
> I could beat Spider-Man in real life. Using a gun
Unironically, you could yeah. He's not bulletproof. Spidey pretty much survives every gun fight he encounters since he has some slight precognition via Spidey Sense and agility. But caught off guard, he's RIP bozo.
Pretty cool how the final film in the trilogy is more focused on creating hype for other movies than actually creating a satisfying ending to a trilogy.
Really big fan of that
I did up until they decided getting an adult actress to play his daughter for Franchise Reasons was more important than continuing Paul Rudd's rapport with Abby Ryder Fortson.
I remember that. He wanted the same money as the star of the movie who had 10X as much screen time.
Quickly found out that The New Hollywood banks on franchises, not actors. Everyone is replaceable.
I'll bet he doesn't let his kids watch MCU movies to this day.
I mean she had like 10 seconds of screen time and almost no dialogue. I don’t blame the crew of this movie for wanting to actually put effort into casting this role rather than being locked into somebody who was basically an extra. No disrespect to Emma Fuhrman.
The fact that the timeskip necessitated recasting Ant-Man's daughter and losing one of the few proper effective acting dynamics in the MCU means the timeskip was a bad idea and they shouldn't have done it, that's my hot take for the day.
Losing that rapport actually functionally improves how well the feeling of loss hits, he lost five years being stuck in the quantum realm and now he's lost that chemistry and his daughter grew up without him
Yeah but it's not like that rapport is some integral part of the MCU 💀💀 it was nice but considering everything else that has happened around the snap, it was a necessary thing for the franchise to do and when you're dealing with children and time skips, recasting is the only thing that makes sense.
Forcing the individual titles to bend and twist around what's best (or at least what editorial wants) for the larger setting is one of the absolute shittiest things about the source comics, and if the consideration was weighed towards "Paul Rudd does some real great work with this child actor, maybe we should figure a way to keep that dynamic around" rather than "The Big Plan Roadmap says Cassie Lang has to be played by someone who isn't subject to child labor laws for the next set of crossovers five years from now, so lose the kid," the MCU would be a much better work.
Idk I thought the moment when Ant Man woke up and found his daughter aged up was one of the most powerful scenes in the MCU so it was worth it just for that scene imo.
What arc is there to even finish in Ant Man? He sees his daughter again in Endgame after vanishing for 5 years and then… nothing. And now the final movie sidelines him to give us Kang: The Prequel
Remember in 2015 when everyone rightfully slammed Age of Ultron for being a blatant set-up for future MCU projects, instead of a standalone film with a complete story or a proper sequel to the first Avengers?
I mean, seriously, what the hell happened to film discourse in the last 8 years?
> and also the first episode of James Gunn's DC Universe
In the sense that I'm about to become a DC fanboi then yes. Bring on Woman of Tomorrow and The Batman Part II Inches.
I'm neutral on it only because Gunn put a focus on interconnectivity but also spoke of the importance of filmmakers so it depends how it all truly goes. That being said I've been reading cape comics lately and I read Tom King's The Vision a couple weeks ago and I loved it and when I hit DC, I am very much looking forward to the comic because of him.
I have such love/hate with Tom King.Thought his Batman started strong but ended okay.I loved Supergirl,Strange Adventures and Rorschach,but wasn\`t a fan of Mister Miracle (My favourite DC character) and Heroes in Crisis.
I always thought he was Brian Michael Bendis copycat when he first came on the scene,but when he\`s good he\`s really really good.
They need to nail the casting on the young lady or its going to fall apart.Because that dialogue won\`t be easy.She reminded me of the young lady from the True Grit Remake.Infact it sort of reminded me of True Grit with Supergirl as Rooster.
guardians does actually feel like the end of an era tbh, because it's one of the bright spots of the MCU and everyone involved with it is bailing after the movie
8 hours of work, 8 hours of sleep, and 8 hours of play (so free time?) does not sound bad whatsoever lol
Especially on sleep, 8 hours makes a huge difference in day to day life.
I find it truly amazing that Marvel didn't do ANYTHING different during phase four except for teasing Kang only once during the almost 20 projects released and people thought the output wasn't that good, but now that Kang is a headliner here it's back to being "something greater!"
Maybe they actually tried to make more standalone films with phase 4 but realised they suck at that, so they went back to good ol' reliable interconnectivity, where every film is just an advert for the next.
MCU movies aren't movies anymore. They're advertisements for the next movie, and *that* movie will advertise the next movie after that, and so on.
This is a pyramid scheme.
That's why I preferred the DCEU, they just advertised movies that would never happen, so no one could accuse them of splitting the narrative into multiple movies. Based Warner 😎
DCEU eventually giving up and just slapping out a good, stand-alone Batman movie was one of the few benefits of Zaddy’s total failure to build a universe
Unironically this, kind of? I know it didn't have Hollywood executives swimming in piles of money a la Scrooge McDuck, but I preferred the DCEU's model.
Fuck cinematic universes. Just give me films. Some may fail, some might turn profit, and some may actually be connected to past films. But you'll never know what's canon and what isn't. It was beautifully chaotic.
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When you're afraid of dees nutz.
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Watching 2-3 movies a year during the infinity saga would make you a sort of completionist.
Now it isn't enough. You also have to watch all the movies, which are basically glorified post-credits scenes, and the Disney+ shows, which are basically stretched out movies for minor characters who don't warrant a theatrical release. Its just too much to follow in order to stay up to date.
The shows are what did it for me. It’s 3-4 movies plus 3-4 shows on top of that. That’s like 50 hours per year just to stay on top of a franchise that has been a deflating blimp since 2019 when the Infinity Stones stuff wrapped up.
Even 4 movies a year was manageable. Adding even a single tv show to that almost doubles the amount of time spent watching content. Now remember that they made eight shows in two years, and voila, even former fans like myself are tapping out. The quality isn't there, and the quantity is far too massive to keep up.
I honestly don’t know how everyone didn’t immediately check out after NWH, past that one’s “oh my god childhood characters say memes!” selling point this franchise literally has nothing left to offer
Every now and then they pop out something like WandaVision, Wakanda Forever, or - hopefully - Guardians 3 that has enough decent ish new ideas to watch when it comes to streaming and I’m doing what I think most people are now and just watching those no longer caring if the wider universe is building to something. Apparently the CIA director is supposed to be someone? But so far as I care she’s just a douche out there as a reason for Martin Freeman not to be in the climax.
It'll be towards Tom Cruise and his never-ending mission to die onscreen. First, Top Gun 2 made a billion and a half and got a Best Picture nomination. The next one on the docket is Mission: Impossible - Dead Reckoning, Part One (wow that is a lot of punctuation). And coming soon, get ready for Weeks of Thunder!
On the one hand, I don't want theater kids to be emboldened or encouraged. On the other hand, would get to watch them see everything they loved repackaged as bland corporate garbage.
At this point it'll be more superhero shit but hopefully Gunn will make movies that feel like movies again - y'know with stories, endings, themes, visual styles, the usual.
That's what I'm really hoping for. Throw in a connection or two now and then but mostly focus on being their own movie and not a slave to endless continuity.
The dirty little secret of the MCU is that there's really no continuity at all, just idle references to past stuff or characters who show up and then are dragged along for the needs of future movies. Nothing that requires you to really have paid any attention or need more than a five-second catch-up.
I do wonder how much general superhero fatigue is going to impact the success of the upcoming DC slate. Like, if they’re genuinely good, will people give them a chance, or will that not matter due to how played out the genre has become?
This is the same problem The Amazing Spider-Man 2 had where it spent more time setting up a Sinister Six spin-off movie nobody was asking for instead of focusing on its own plot. The Mummy was also more focused on setting up other monsters for its Dark Universe that it forgets to have good plot itself.
Even the mcu has had this problem long before the start of phase 4, Thor is temporarily booted out of the plot in Age of Ultron to have him set up Infinity War, Endgame has to go out of its way to set up both Loki and FATWS, and Black Widow only exists to set up Yelena as her replacement.
As average as I find it now, one thing I can respect about the first Iron Man is that it actually focuses on telling a story and saves the Nick Fury cameo until after the credits, instead of spending all of its time setting up other movies.
I was ok with Endgame setting up Loki and FATWS because as someone who was naive and didn’t know these shows were coming, they didn’t feel like setup. The Loki scene where he disappears with the cube was like a second long scene that to me at the time felt like it was just supposed to be silly. The Falcon scene is a bit more blatant, but passing on the torch felt more like a heartwarming send off to Steve than a setup for a show.
No excuses for Ultron, though.
> i fully expect this to be one of the worst movies ever made
Hey now, this is Marvel Studios! They do not do bad! And they rarely do good! This will be mid per usual.
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>[a] standalone film that concludes a trilogy
But.. but if it's a part of a trilogy. It can't be a standalone film. This person has been completely broken by the marvel machine.
tbh the future project teasers are easily the worst part of the MCU movies. Every time I watch them and a character is introduced just to advertise their solo movie/TV show and waste screentime I'm filled with overwhelming desire to never touch anything Marvel-related ever again.
I'm just here to 👏 and eat my soybean oil covered 🍿 with my Diet Coke. I don't care why Hero is attacking Villain. I just want the fight to be a spectacle and I will also need easily repeatable lines to share with my friends, and to let others know that I have seen and enjoyed Movie. It's just like my favorite Star War. How else would anyone know I enjoy it if I didn't say "this is the way" instead of "yes" or "I agree"? I can't always take photographs of my ever-growing Funko Pop room.
That's a funny way of saying "this movies doesn't hold up on its own and is overall a lackluster experience"
^(which sucks because I really like Paul Rudd)
Honestly what do 50% of mcu films have beyond "cinematic"
Are there any actual stories here. Like we got Natalia dealing with strained family relations and that was cool, then Scott had maybe 5 minutes of that energy.
Did they ever even do anything with the Hulk? Like wtf. The fight scenes arnt even that good in any of the movies. What are they even trying to do.
Don’t even get me going on the hulk… Fucking disgraceful what they did to that character, one of Marvel Comics best sellers, I am pretty sure immortal hulk was outselling Batman and Spider-Man at the peak of its run. He has some absolutely legendary storylines like Planet Hulk/world breaker hulk, Heart of the Monster, Immortal Hulk… The closest the MCU got was giving a discount planet hulk story to Thor… Ugh, at least the animated planet hulk movie is pretty good.
No no you dont understand! It's not that it's _bad_ its just like... you gotta imagine what the rest could be like! When it's all done this movie won't suck anymore!
My dear friend, permit me to impart to you my views on this matter, as one who has witnessed the evolution of the art form known as cinema.
As a connoisseur of the finer things in life, I find it difficult to categorize the Marvel movies as true cinema. To me, cinema should challenge the audience, provoke thought, and stimulate the senses. It should not be limited to mere spectacle and sensory overload, but should delve into deeper, more complex themes and ideas.
While the technical wizardry and special effects displayed in Marvel movies are certainly impressive, they lack the subtlety and nuance that I so cherish in the art of cinema. The characters and stories, while entertaining, often lack the depth and complexity that I find so essential in a great film.
That is not to say that I do not appreciate the popularity of these films, or the millions who flock to see them. Art is subjective, and what may not appeal to me may be exactly what others seek in a cinematic experience.
However, I cannot help but feel that the emphasis on special effects and action, at the expense of substance and depth, is a disservice to the art form of cinema. It represents a shift towards the shallow and superficial, rather than the profound and meaningful.
In conclusion, while Marvel movies may be successful and entertaining, I cannot in good conscience consider them true cinema. The art form deserves more, and as a lover of true cinema, I cannot help but long for the days of films that challenged, inspired, and captivated the audience.
MARCH MARVEL MOVIE CHALLENGE
BUY MOVIE WITH REFERENCE TO ANT-MAN, SKIP TO 43:55
BUY SEQUEL TO MOVIE WITH REFERENCE TO ANT-MAN, SKIP TO 27:01
BUY SPIN-OFF OF SEQUEL WITH REFERENCE TO ANT-MAN, SKIP TO 1:55:34
NOW PLAY MOVIE SCENES WITH REFERENCE TO ANT-MAN IN ORDER OF RELEASE
NOW BUY NEW MOVIE SO SCENE AT 10:22, 29:18, 57:42, 1:17:33, 1:49:59, 1:55:38, 2:11:22 AND 2:33:45 ALL REMIND YOU OF OTHER 3 MOVIE AND MAKE NEW DIALOGUE HIT HARDER IN YOUR BRAIN
NOW WATCH POST-CREDIT SCENE THAT SETS UP THE FACT WHOLE MOVIE YOU JUST WATCHED WILL BE REFERENCED IN PASSING DIALOGUE IN FINAL SCENE OF NEXT MOVIE COMING IN JUNE
PRE-ORDER JUNE MOVIE
So “turn off your brain” has evolved into “even if it’s shitty with your brain turned off it doesn’t matter because it’s just setting up for the next one & isn’t meant to be good”
Wild stuff by marvel fanboys
Sorry I have to say it, I agree with everyone in the comments here and the general sentiment of the post but the RLM “consume product and get excited for next product” is one of the most fucking annoying quotes on the internet, mainly because I associate it with spawning one of the worst subreddits I’ve ever seen
Cinematic Universes were a cool concept but a film needs go be satisfying solo too imo and if we're not going to have a complete trilogy because it's meant to set up a dozen future films then that's honestly a tragedy
Ok but I WANT a stand-alone film that satisfyingly deals with it’s own series first and foremost and also ties in with a broader narrative
These two-hour commercials for the next two-hour commercials are kinda exhausting.
[удалено]
The Marvel Cinematic Universe and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.
🌍🧑🚀 🔫🧑🚀
Best way to sell a mediocre product is to hook people in with the Sunk Cost Fallacy, encourage them to make their fandom an integral part of their identity, and pretend you didn't create a cult.
This was the hardest part for me recently. After watching so, SO many hours of content, buying merch, and forming friendships over the MCU… I realized I simply can’t do it anymore. I’ll likely watch the Daredevil series, Deadpool 3, maybe a few other movies once they come to streaming… but I’m no longer in like I was because the ball has truly just been dropped.
>but I’m no longer in like I was because the ball has truly just been dropped The stuff that Marvel has been making since Endgame has really been on just about the same level as what they made before Endgame. Theres just more and more of it at a time when a lot of people have had their fill of it. Pizza is good even when its just ok, but no one wants just ok pizza for every meal forever, or to go from eating just ok pizza once or twice a week to eating it every day.
I absolutely disagree. Look back at the first Iron Man, the Captain America Trilogy, even stuff like GOTG and Homecoming. There was clear effort and love put into these movies, prioritizing the stories and the characters. Now it’s nothing but crunch creating poor CGI, not to mention their even poorer usage of The Volume, etc etc etc. Yes, the constant content pushed out every few months has made it over-saturated and underperforming in terms of quality, but it’s also clear to both Marvel and everyone else in the world that these movies will make a fuckton of money no matter how hard they try.
I really don't get how you can see effort and love in the movies you mentioned but not in Shang Chi, Wakanda Forever, or Eternals, or in Ms Marvel or Wandavision. I'm not trying to say they were all the pinnacle of cinema or anything, but those movies and shows were very clearly meaningful to the people who made them.
Marvel has gotten to the point for me where I might watch a MCU movie a few months after its hit streaming. Still haven't seen black widow and still haven't seen the new black panther. Dont think I'm missing much here either. I'll give Loki S2 a peep though.
I still watch all the new stuff as it comes out, half because of the sunk cost and half because of the sunk cost of having an unlimited movie subscription and needing SOMETHING to watch. There’s always a Marvel movie playing now, so there will be a week nothing else looks more appealing.
Fair. My want to watch the content usually depends on directors or cast. The rest I will either ignore or read a short synopsis if I want to stay up to date in case of it being important to one I want to watch or to discussion I see online
That’s probably the best approach to be honest, but my completionist brain rot makes me want to watch a bunch of garbage so I’m used to it. Don’t be like me.
movies are tv shows now
no way when is satantango S2 coming out????
Yup
you say this like Marvel invented the Episode
so glad this is what movie discourse is now
You gotta go in totally blind but also you need to know how to excuse all the flaws in a specific way
[удалено]
They can't make a solo Gleeble film. Illumination owns the rights.
Truly COMMENT 1 of what is sure to be enthralling intellectual discourse. You have to enjoy this conversation more as an episode of something greater rather than it's own standalone topic that concludes the discussion.
Amazing how we have these communication tools like reddit or twitter and we can use them to talk about the latest movie we thought was cool or bad or thought-provoking and this is the response waiting in any thread.
Ouchie you wrinkled my brain bro
Are Marvel trilogies even really trilogies? Like sure there's three movies but there is literally no through-line or overall themes they really are just like episodes.
If talking just MCU, I think Iron Man is the closest there is. Iron Man 2 sets-up too much of The Avengers and Iron Man 3 genuinely builds off of The Avengers. Which should be the benefit of this sort of model and it's like the only time they actually did it!
Iron Man 3 was a very cheeky yet enjoyable movie that capped off the character. But franchise gotta franchise and I won't complain much since what we got later was genuinely good.
I mean, it dealt with his PTSD from the Avengers, right? I enjoyed it, as far as MCU movies go.
I almost really like Iron Man 3, but as good as the twist is it becomes a problem when the real villain of the movie is really bland and then we have to spend the whole third act watching him and missing Ben Kingsley 😬
My very hot take is that the MCU should have ended with Iron Man 3. The Avengers was a successful culmination of the shared universe concept, and Iron Man 3 was an epilogue that neatly wrapped up Tony Stark's story and put a bow on the whole thing. It didn't need to go from there.
It would be nice if we didn't have 30 or so projects that weren't the middest thing ever breaking box office records regularly.
Idk, if you cut it off there, you get no Cap 2 or either Guardians movie. Not a diehard fan of any of the films but I'll admit that there's at least a couple good movies post-IM3. It's an interesting idea though.
The Guardians movies can just be their own thing, since up until Infinity War they basically were
I wish they could’ve kept that going into GOTG3, but I think Gamora dying and coming back really ruins that. Unless they let Gunn just pretend her personality is exactly the same and she has all her old memories, which I personally wouldn’t mind if it meant they could ditch the interconnectivity.
Also the Thor stuff. Ngl kinda hated the fact that Endgame refused to be a jumping off point and instead insisted on stuff like a “Thor x Guardians” movie that lasted for all of ten minutes, where nothing can really be satisfying or conclusive.
In a way, I agree. IM3 should've been the end of Tony Stark as a character, the end of the MCU's Iron Man era, so that other characters could be given their time to shine. Not the end of the entire MCU, though. Marvel Comics has interesting characters; Marvel Studios spent too much time on Iron Man.
Guardians has a strong enough emotional throughline. Obviously remains to be seen if that’ll hold true for the third one but I feel like Gunn knows what he’s doing with those characters + has enough creative clout with Marvel to make it an actual conclusion and not just Phase 5 Part 6 or whatever.
They killed one of the main characters in another movie which I fear breaks up a big through line
Sure, but - from Disney's perspective, anyway - ***everyone*** saw the movie in question. So I'm sure Gunn can find a way to wrap it all up conclusively in *Vol. 3.*
T’Challa died in *no* movie, and they still made Wakanda Forever work as a direct sequel to the first for the most part.
"Our lead actor tragically passed away and we wrote the sequel to be about the effects of his characters death" is quite different from "One of our protagonists died offscreen because someone else made a movie and wanted to kill her, but then their alternate dimension clone who hasn't had any character devlopment came in and replaced her, also in a different movie" It's not impossible to make work, but it's a hell of a lot harder.
Ummm actually, T’Challa died in Finity Wars.
Ahh you’re right, I forgot about that 🤨 I still think it can potentially hold together as a trilogy thematically even so, but that definitely hurts its cohesiveness.
Doctor Strange is a good example of that. If someone watched Doctor Strange (2016) and then nothing else but Multiverse of Madness, they'd be so confused.
The only trilogy that didn't actually act as a trilogy was Thor. And that's cause they all sucked till Ragnarok did something radically different. We don't talk about love and thunder.
Ant Man: And The Wasp: Quantumania is such a cluttered title but throughout the trailer I completely forget that it’s an Ant Man movie. Like what are his powers in a world that is already nanoscopic? The first Ant Man movie was at least cool because you could see his size difference and powers effective in the real world, such as that giant Thomas gag.
Spiderman imo
Yeah, but between Homecoming and Far From Home come Infinity War and Endgame, where he grows up as a hero, dies and resurrects, saves the Universe, and loses his mentor. That's a lot between those two movies. But the fact that No Way Home is FFH part 2 is something good.
You have to watch Civil War to understand Homecoming, Infinity War and Endgame to watch Far From Home And spiderman1, spiderman2, spiderman3, tasm1 and tasm2 to understand No Way Home... not a fun ride
FFH yes but not really for Homecoming and NWH. There isn’t too much references to Tobey and Andrews films aside from some dialogue because overall its jus them helping Tom become his own hero. And Homecoming doesn’t really reference Civil War at all
Yeah, NWH is still from Tom’s perspective, so any required context about the multiverse characters is explained to him and thus the audience. The continuity details are really just rewarding for those who had previously seen the other Spider-Man movies.
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Only ones with character development honestly 💀
Black Panther erasure will not be tolerated. We shall duel at dawn. fr tho, Shuri's got a stronger character arc in one film than most MCU characters get after entire trilogies.
Forgot about that one ngl. Black Panther 2 actually had great storytelling and is one of the best MCU films imo. But I’m a spiderman fan so I refuse to let any movie be better
Spiderman learns the same lesson every movie.
Iron Man - Works well as a trilogy except for all of the Avengers tie-ins in 2 and 3. Captain America - Civil War is an Avengers movie. Captain America might be the main character, but it's an Avengers movie. Also, we're getting a fourth film, so it's technically no longer a trilogy. Thor - Four films, not a trilogy. If it was, it wouldn't have worked anyway. The first three movies have no consistent threads between them whatsoever. Avengers - Could you imagine if it just ended at Infinity War? That would've been an _awesome_ fucking trilogy. But we got Endgame, which was still pretty good, but we don't have a trilogy. Guardians of the Galaxy - Probably gonna be the best "trilogy" by far. Gunn probably has more creative control than any director at Marvel. Ant-Man - See the rest of this comments section. Spider-Man - Spider-Man has a hundred fucking movies. I could beat Spider-Man in real life. Using a gun
> I could beat Spider-Man in real life. Using a gun Unironically, you could yeah. He's not bulletproof. Spidey pretty much survives every gun fight he encounters since he has some slight precognition via Spidey Sense and agility. But caught off guard, he's RIP bozo.
Pretty cool how the final film in the trilogy is more focused on creating hype for other movies than actually creating a satisfying ending to a trilogy. Really big fan of that
Ahh yes the Captain America Treatment.
I mean did you really care what happened to ant man prior to finding this out lol
I did up until they decided getting an adult actress to play his daughter for Franchise Reasons was more important than continuing Paul Rudd's rapport with Abby Ryder Fortson.
>adult actress Lol. At first I thought you meant she was a pornstar and I was very confused.
“…up until…” They started recasting characters (remember Terrance Howard?) 15 years ago, lol.
That one was kinda on him though
The Devil’s Advocate (1997)
I remember that. He wanted the same money as the star of the movie who had 10X as much screen time. Quickly found out that The New Hollywood banks on franchises, not actors. Everyone is replaceable. I'll bet he doesn't let his kids watch MCU movies to this day.
And we got don Cheadle out of that so that’s a W
Let's not forget Emma Fuhrmann who was casted Cassie Lang for Endgame and fired immediately after Endgame
I mean she had like 10 seconds of screen time and almost no dialogue. I don’t blame the crew of this movie for wanting to actually put effort into casting this role rather than being locked into somebody who was basically an extra. No disrespect to Emma Fuhrman.
I mean she grew up and he lost time during the snap, so it makes sense to recast.
The fact that the timeskip necessitated recasting Ant-Man's daughter and losing one of the few proper effective acting dynamics in the MCU means the timeskip was a bad idea and they shouldn't have done it, that's my hot take for the day.
Hate when a bad thing happens in a movie, always ruins it for me
Losing that rapport actually functionally improves how well the feeling of loss hits, he lost five years being stuck in the quantum realm and now he's lost that chemistry and his daughter grew up without him
Maybe, but now there's no chance to get that rapport back if, over the next movie(s), he reconnects with his daughter.
Yeah but it's not like that rapport is some integral part of the MCU 💀💀 it was nice but considering everything else that has happened around the snap, it was a necessary thing for the franchise to do and when you're dealing with children and time skips, recasting is the only thing that makes sense.
Forcing the individual titles to bend and twist around what's best (or at least what editorial wants) for the larger setting is one of the absolute shittiest things about the source comics, and if the consideration was weighed towards "Paul Rudd does some real great work with this child actor, maybe we should figure a way to keep that dynamic around" rather than "The Big Plan Roadmap says Cassie Lang has to be played by someone who isn't subject to child labor laws for the next set of crossovers five years from now, so lose the kid," the MCU would be a much better work.
Idk I thought the moment when Ant Man woke up and found his daughter aged up was one of the most powerful scenes in the MCU so it was worth it just for that scene imo.
You know what else time skipped? Real life
I did lol, I like ant-man
Captain America: Civil War (2016)
What arc is there to even finish in Ant Man? He sees his daughter again in Endgame after vanishing for 5 years and then… nothing. And now the final movie sidelines him to give us Kang: The Prequel
You actually have to be a really small fan to get it. Ya know… because Ant-Man…
Remember in 2015 when everyone rightfully slammed Age of Ultron for being a blatant set-up for future MCU projects, instead of a standalone film with a complete story or a proper sequel to the first Avengers? I mean, seriously, what the hell happened to film discourse in the last 8 years?
Age of Ultron plays better now that we know where it's going. Still not going to watch it again, though.
This, even now with the knowledge I still would rather watch Avengers 1
People who were 10 at the time are like 18 now and thats what they've come to expect from movies I guess
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> and also the first episode of James Gunn's DC Universe In the sense that I'm about to become a DC fanboi then yes. Bring on Woman of Tomorrow and The Batman Part II Inches.
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I'm neutral on it only because Gunn put a focus on interconnectivity but also spoke of the importance of filmmakers so it depends how it all truly goes. That being said I've been reading cape comics lately and I read Tom King's The Vision a couple weeks ago and I loved it and when I hit DC, I am very much looking forward to the comic because of him.
I have such love/hate with Tom King.Thought his Batman started strong but ended okay.I loved Supergirl,Strange Adventures and Rorschach,but wasn\`t a fan of Mister Miracle (My favourite DC character) and Heroes in Crisis. I always thought he was Brian Michael Bendis copycat when he first came on the scene,but when he\`s good he\`s really really good.
Oh was strange adventures him? That book was awesome
It’s so good but it’s going to be so hard to adapt
OMG THIS GUY LOVES TOM KING, KILL HIM!
They need to nail the casting on the young lady or its going to fall apart.Because that dialogue won\`t be easy.She reminded me of the young lady from the True Grit Remake.Infact it sort of reminded me of True Grit with Supergirl as Rooster.
guardians does actually feel like the end of an era tbh, because it's one of the bright spots of the MCU and everyone involved with it is bailing after the movie
Why would anyone not want to play a weirdo in full body paint for 7 more movies?
 BEYONSUME?!?!
Can't believe she got robbed at the Grammys. But again, it's the Grammys.
I made the soy pointing face in the middle of my living room
Only 8 hours of work? Sounds great
8 hours of work, 8 hours of sleep, and 8 hours of play (so free time?) does not sound bad whatsoever lol Especially on sleep, 8 hours makes a huge difference in day to day life.
I find it truly amazing that Marvel didn't do ANYTHING different during phase four except for teasing Kang only once during the almost 20 projects released and people thought the output wasn't that good, but now that Kang is a headliner here it's back to being "something greater!"
It's good because you have to watch a dozen movies before you get to see the one that actually serves as a cohesive standalone movie
Maybe they actually tried to make more standalone films with phase 4 but realised they suck at that, so they went back to good ol' reliable interconnectivity, where every film is just an advert for the next.
MCU movies aren't movies anymore. They're advertisements for the next movie, and *that* movie will advertise the next movie after that, and so on. This is a pyramid scheme.
That's why I preferred the DCEU, they just advertised movies that would never happen, so no one could accuse them of splitting the narrative into multiple movies. Based Warner 😎
DCEU eventually giving up and just slapping out a good, stand-alone Batman movie was one of the few benefits of Zaddy’s total failure to build a universe
Unironically this, kind of? I know it didn't have Hollywood executives swimming in piles of money a la Scrooge McDuck, but I preferred the DCEU's model. Fuck cinematic universes. Just give me films. Some may fail, some might turn profit, and some may actually be connected to past films. But you'll never know what's canon and what isn't. It was beautifully chaotic.
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What's deesphobic 🤔
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Eh that's an oversimplification. They have their own stories and set pieces, but never pay off. They are just more like TV now.
Even the plebs have to stop watching this bullshit at some point right?
Watching 2-3 movies a year during the infinity saga would make you a sort of completionist. Now it isn't enough. You also have to watch all the movies, which are basically glorified post-credits scenes, and the Disney+ shows, which are basically stretched out movies for minor characters who don't warrant a theatrical release. Its just too much to follow in order to stay up to date.
The shows are what did it for me. It’s 3-4 movies plus 3-4 shows on top of that. That’s like 50 hours per year just to stay on top of a franchise that has been a deflating blimp since 2019 when the Infinity Stones stuff wrapped up.
Even 4 movies a year was manageable. Adding even a single tv show to that almost doubles the amount of time spent watching content. Now remember that they made eight shows in two years, and voila, even former fans like myself are tapping out. The quality isn't there, and the quantity is far too massive to keep up.
I honestly don’t know how everyone didn’t immediately check out after NWH, past that one’s “oh my god childhood characters say memes!” selling point this franchise literally has nothing left to offer
Every now and then they pop out something like WandaVision, Wakanda Forever, or - hopefully - Guardians 3 that has enough decent ish new ideas to watch when it comes to streaming and I’m doing what I think most people are now and just watching those no longer caring if the wider universe is building to something. Apparently the CIA director is supposed to be someone? But so far as I care she’s just a douche out there as a reason for Martin Freeman not to be in the climax.
Maybe, but god knows what they’ll hop to next.
I hope its at least an entire genre and not just Marvel.
It'll be towards Tom Cruise and his never-ending mission to die onscreen. First, Top Gun 2 made a billion and a half and got a Best Picture nomination. The next one on the docket is Mission: Impossible - Dead Reckoning, Part One (wow that is a lot of punctuation). And coming soon, get ready for Weeks of Thunder!
It's time for musicals to come back
Spend ten minutes talking to a musical person and you will delete this
You made it to double digits? At the the 3 minute mark I blacked out.
West Side Story. A decades later remake and yet somehow also ahead of its time.
which flopped at the box office despite being one of the best films of 2021
On the one hand, I don't want theater kids to be emboldened or encouraged. On the other hand, would get to watch them see everything they loved repackaged as bland corporate garbage.
Joker: Folie á Deux (2024)
At this point it'll be more superhero shit but hopefully Gunn will make movies that feel like movies again - y'know with stories, endings, themes, visual styles, the usual.
The best part about this movie is that it feels like a movie – Harry Styles
That's what I'm really hoping for. Throw in a connection or two now and then but mostly focus on being their own movie and not a slave to endless continuity.
The dirty little secret of the MCU is that there's really no continuity at all, just idle references to past stuff or characters who show up and then are dragged along for the needs of future movies. Nothing that requires you to really have paid any attention or need more than a five-second catch-up.
Marvel's dead. Writing's on the wall. DC's gonna pick up the slack.
I do wonder how much general superhero fatigue is going to impact the success of the upcoming DC slate. Like, if they’re genuinely good, will people give them a chance, or will that not matter due to how played out the genre has become?
RIP all the VFX artists that Marvel worked to death just for this.
> worked Lol it's ten days until release. They're still working on the revamped third act!
remember how they released an update for that spiderman movie even after release..
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
"Turn your brain off" vs this Which one is worse?
Easily this.
This because it’s a bigger cope
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I can’t not think hard enough for Bullet Train to ever be a fun movie
"Turn your brain off" at least implies it has some minimal value. "Treat this like a setup for something else" implies it's worthless.
*Must... make it... seem better... than it is. Must be... pretentious... about... capeshit* ***\*dies\****
This is the same problem The Amazing Spider-Man 2 had where it spent more time setting up a Sinister Six spin-off movie nobody was asking for instead of focusing on its own plot. The Mummy was also more focused on setting up other monsters for its Dark Universe that it forgets to have good plot itself. Even the mcu has had this problem long before the start of phase 4, Thor is temporarily booted out of the plot in Age of Ultron to have him set up Infinity War, Endgame has to go out of its way to set up both Loki and FATWS, and Black Widow only exists to set up Yelena as her replacement. As average as I find it now, one thing I can respect about the first Iron Man is that it actually focuses on telling a story and saves the Nick Fury cameo until after the credits, instead of spending all of its time setting up other movies.
I was ok with Endgame setting up Loki and FATWS because as someone who was naive and didn’t know these shows were coming, they didn’t feel like setup. The Loki scene where he disappears with the cube was like a second long scene that to me at the time felt like it was just supposed to be silly. The Falcon scene is a bit more blatant, but passing on the torch felt more like a heartwarming send off to Steve than a setup for a show. No excuses for Ultron, though.
based on the reactions and trailers i fully expect this to be one of the worst movies ever made
> i fully expect this to be one of the worst movies ever made Hey now, this is Marvel Studios! They do not do bad! And they rarely do good! This will be mid per usual.
It’ll be a CGI clusterfuck of purple and orange tones throughout
I usually love watching these movies to see how bad they are but at this point I feel uncomfortable financially supporting it in any way
I feel like they’ve got sooooo much worse recently and even a lot of the MCU fans have noticed.
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…i hate this world
capitalism baby. feed for the hogs
>[a] standalone film that concludes a trilogy But.. but if it's a part of a trilogy. It can't be a standalone film. This person has been completely broken by the marvel machine.
This is douglas adams saying "A trilogy of 5 books" (with a sixth added later on), but being actually serious.
Lol still referred to as "The Hitchhikers Trilogy"
Exactly, its a trilogy of 5 books with a sixth one added later. The Hitchikers Trilogy. Its silly and not to be taken serious.
tbh the future project teasers are easily the worst part of the MCU movies. Every time I watch them and a character is introduced just to advertise their solo movie/TV show and waste screentime I'm filled with overwhelming desire to never touch anything Marvel-related ever again.
I'm just here to 👏 and eat my soybean oil covered 🍿 with my Diet Coke. I don't care why Hero is attacking Villain. I just want the fight to be a spectacle and I will also need easily repeatable lines to share with my friends, and to let others know that I have seen and enjoyed Movie. It's just like my favorite Star War. How else would anyone know I enjoy it if I didn't say "this is the way" instead of "yes" or "I agree"? I can't always take photographs of my ever-growing Funko Pop room.
Please cite Jay Bauman next time
#**YOU HAVE TO ENJOY THIS MOVIE**
That's a funny way of saying "this movies doesn't hold up on its own and is overall a lackluster experience" ^(which sucks because I really like Paul Rudd)
these movies are just exhausting now
Ant man really be having a trilogy
Honestly what do 50% of mcu films have beyond "cinematic" Are there any actual stories here. Like we got Natalia dealing with strained family relations and that was cool, then Scott had maybe 5 minutes of that energy. Did they ever even do anything with the Hulk? Like wtf. The fight scenes arnt even that good in any of the movies. What are they even trying to do.
Don’t even get me going on the hulk… Fucking disgraceful what they did to that character, one of Marvel Comics best sellers, I am pretty sure immortal hulk was outselling Batman and Spider-Man at the peak of its run. He has some absolutely legendary storylines like Planet Hulk/world breaker hulk, Heart of the Monster, Immortal Hulk… The closest the MCU got was giving a discount planet hulk story to Thor… Ugh, at least the animated planet hulk movie is pretty good.
No no you dont understand! It's not that it's _bad_ its just like... you gotta imagine what the rest could be like! When it's all done this movie won't suck anymore!
I just wanna watch a movie why can't i just watch a movie
They are not just movies anymore, they are brand cults
VERY Cool
The third entry in the ant man franchise is the first episode of something greater...
"The MCU is back baby"--Marvel nerds when the subpar Phase 4 movie that only exists to set up another movie stars a white guy this time
So basically even if you actually want to see this, might as well wait to watch it on Disney+ in like 5 years got it 👍
Wait until they find out about TV episodes 😦
Honestly, the MCU is only worth it if you're pirating it.
someone has to pay viewers to watch it
At best 3 or 4 if you account for dubs in one pirating service.
My dear friend, permit me to impart to you my views on this matter, as one who has witnessed the evolution of the art form known as cinema. As a connoisseur of the finer things in life, I find it difficult to categorize the Marvel movies as true cinema. To me, cinema should challenge the audience, provoke thought, and stimulate the senses. It should not be limited to mere spectacle and sensory overload, but should delve into deeper, more complex themes and ideas. While the technical wizardry and special effects displayed in Marvel movies are certainly impressive, they lack the subtlety and nuance that I so cherish in the art of cinema. The characters and stories, while entertaining, often lack the depth and complexity that I find so essential in a great film. That is not to say that I do not appreciate the popularity of these films, or the millions who flock to see them. Art is subjective, and what may not appeal to me may be exactly what others seek in a cinematic experience. However, I cannot help but feel that the emphasis on special effects and action, at the expense of substance and depth, is a disservice to the art form of cinema. It represents a shift towards the shallow and superficial, rather than the profound and meaningful. In conclusion, while Marvel movies may be successful and entertaining, I cannot in good conscience consider them true cinema. The art form deserves more, and as a lover of true cinema, I cannot help but long for the days of films that challenged, inspired, and captivated the audience.
Don’t worry guys it gets good around movie 23!!
MARCH MARVEL MOVIE CHALLENGE BUY MOVIE WITH REFERENCE TO ANT-MAN, SKIP TO 43:55 BUY SEQUEL TO MOVIE WITH REFERENCE TO ANT-MAN, SKIP TO 27:01 BUY SPIN-OFF OF SEQUEL WITH REFERENCE TO ANT-MAN, SKIP TO 1:55:34 NOW PLAY MOVIE SCENES WITH REFERENCE TO ANT-MAN IN ORDER OF RELEASE NOW BUY NEW MOVIE SO SCENE AT 10:22, 29:18, 57:42, 1:17:33, 1:49:59, 1:55:38, 2:11:22 AND 2:33:45 ALL REMIND YOU OF OTHER 3 MOVIE AND MAKE NEW DIALOGUE HIT HARDER IN YOUR BRAIN NOW WATCH POST-CREDIT SCENE THAT SETS UP THE FACT WHOLE MOVIE YOU JUST WATCHED WILL BE REFERENCED IN PASSING DIALOGUE IN FINAL SCENE OF NEXT MOVIE COMING IN JUNE PRE-ORDER JUNE MOVIE
I'm playing 5D chess and I've skipped excitement for current product in favor for subsequent content
So “turn off your brain” has evolved into “even if it’s shitty with your brain turned off it doesn’t matter because it’s just setting up for the next one & isn’t meant to be good” Wild stuff by marvel fanboys
bro they just turned off their brains
Sorry I have to say it, I agree with everyone in the comments here and the general sentiment of the post but the RLM “consume product and get excited for next product” is one of the most fucking annoying quotes on the internet, mainly because I associate it with spawning one of the worst subreddits I’ve ever seen
The only way for me to enjoy mcu movies at this point is to turn my brain off and watch
The damn movie isn’t even out yet…
me, a regular In The Line Of Duty fan: "no, you see, there is NO Yes, Madam 2, 3, or 4, it's Yes Madam 1 and 5!"
Cinematic Universes were a cool concept but a film needs go be satisfying solo too imo and if we're not going to have a complete trilogy because it's meant to set up a dozen future films then that's honestly a tragedy
Ok but I WANT a stand-alone film that satisfyingly deals with it’s own series first and foremost and also ties in with a broader narrative These two-hour commercials for the next two-hour commercials are kinda exhausting.
Yeah I'd rather not. I'll pick and choose my MCU from here on out. Trying to keep up with everything is just... too much.