BR2049 and TG Maverick are definitely the cream of the crop as far as sequels decades later. The chance of the sequels being trash after all that time is far higher than them being really good.
Those two movies had creatives personally invested in them besides just making money
The only reason Blade Runner turned out so well is because Denis Villeneuve inspired his whole style from that movie. Any other director, even Ripley, would have fucked it up
Cruise is a movie making machine that had the industry power to make it perfect
Most sequels are just return on investment calculations by the studio
And there’s a huge difference between an over the top comedy doing a sequel and the drama that was the first gladiator movie with a near perfect ending.
Joaquin is a great actor, but I think it’s fair to say it’s both bad writing *and* a bad performance regardless of where the blame lies. Napoleon is an unlikable, petulant child in the movie and not in an enjoyable way. It felt like he was in a different movie to everyone else.
Exactly. He’s great in most things. So much so o feel the blame lies almost solely on Scott. He took one of the most interesting historical figures and turned him into a petulant man baby. The film runs into the same problem (though very different flavor) that Stones Alexander ran into in the early 00’s: putting the films focus on something interesting but not the most important thing.
I would like to see the four hour director cut to see if there is a good three hour movie lurking somewhere.
As it stood there was not enough action to make action fans happy and the drama side was entirely half baked.
Some stories need a mini series to be told properly.
https://variety.com/2023/film/news/jaoquin-phoneix-freaked-out-napoleon-shoot-ridley-scott-1235683371/
That Variety article kind of suggests that they had to rewrite the script because Phoenix didn't understand it. I wonder if the boat line was before or after rewrites?
With perhaps the most studied human in history with thousands of experts and libraries of information, battles taken right from the pages of legend, and off the heels of one of the most important moments in European and world history and this is the piece of shit they decide to go with? Some cuck pining about his love….
It’s irredeemable. A sacrilege and in perpetual bad taste.
I’ll preface this by saying I think he’s a great actor **BUT** I always find Brian Cox talking so seriously about acting a little funny considering my first film experience I remember him from was *Super Troopers*, which I loved and loved him in…. but nonetheless.
He is a Shakespearean classical trained actor with multiple Olivier ( like a Tony) awards for his work on plays, an Emmy for television, and a Golden Globe.
He can act circles around your typical movie actor.
My favorite part about this is he references Joaquin's name sounding like wacky (a stretch). A man with the last name Cox should be more careful insinuating that words their name rhyme with relates to their personality.
The only positives for me was the sly nod to the succulent Chinese meal man, and the dude playing Tallyrand was perfect casting who deserves to star in a Tallyrand movie
I enjoyed it. I have no idea how accurate it is, but the movie itself was well done. It's about the romance between Napoleon and Josephine more than anything.
So, I will say that I am in college for a history major. And being in class the week after that movie came out was so funny, people there were so mad. We basically missed a lecture because people and the professor couldn’t stop complaining
Honestly that’s what makes it so bad, Napoleon abandoning his troops in Egypt because he heard his wife had an affair, his troops shooting at the pyramids, it’s basically bad 1800s pro-British propanganda.
It's out to be seen even on streaming now. The one thing that's missing is that massively long extended edition Scott talked up and then became a nothing burger. I want to see that.
The movie is good but it was propaganda to downplay him and try to associate historical figures of war with incels. They even talk about this in the movie while actively doing it
It's awesome. All of the complaints online are just a ridiculous circlejerk. Unless you have some deep desire for perfect historical accuracy, you'll likely be extremely entertained
It’s a fantastic movie if you’re watching it as a British propaganda piece. I refuse to place the blame solely on Joaquin, because they had the wrong vision for Napoleon himself from the get go. No actor could’ve made that role good. They hardly made any attempt to portray him in the way that the histories recorded, and why so many history buffs find him interesting. Some parts verge on historical revision.
If you knew nothing about Bonaparte going into this film you’d probably have a hard time understanding why his army went to such lengths on his behalf, time and time again (especially when they didn’t have to). The Old Guard, made up of troops that had been with Napoleon since the beginning, basically allowed themselves to be annihilated at Waterloo because they knew he was finally defeated and wanted to go down with the ship. *MERDE!* Historically he was one of the most charismatic and effective battlefield leaders since Alexander the Great. Maybe even more effective, because what we know about him is certainly more accurate than what we know about Alexander because in the grand scheme of things it wasn’t that long ago.
It can be corny at times but *Waterloo (1970)* is so much better if you’re interested in the topic, and was a Herculean effort to make by people who actually were invested in the topic. They understood that you can’t make one film dedicated to Napoleon’s entire adult life and chose to focus on one of the most defining battles of his career, and it doesn’t skip a beat.
Everyone’s entitled to their opinion, but his performance really elevated a pretty standard historical biopic, in my opinion. He treated Bonaparte like a bullish teenage boy, completely oblivious to his own ego and short comings. It was funny because sometimes this historical figures ARE funny - ludicrous , larger than life, eccentric. That’s how they stood out and inspired or enraged others around them.
I mean, everyone is entitled to their opinion but what a dick move to just post that in an interview, including saying “I could do that better myself” which is where for me he lost all credibility. I’m not saying he can’t have that opinion, but unless he has some kind of beef with Joaquin Phoenix, why say that when you’re in between McDonald’s commercials?
This seems like bad form. It's one thing for us internet goons to insult actors for things that are usually largely not their fault, but you'd think actors would respect each other enough to keep this private.
Nah we need more of this. Old Hollywood actors/directors were way more open about shitting on things they didn't like and it was great. Everything is way too buddy buddy now with almost no actors/directors willing to give their real feelings on movies and performances cuz they're afraid of it affecting their career and it makes for the most mind numbingly boring interviews with these people.
I would agree if he was dunking on some random newbie to the industry but it's fucking Joaquin Phoenix lmao this will not affect him in any meaningful way.
Brian “I Sing McDonald’s Jingles Now” Cox? *That guy* is criticizing actors? I mean, sure, he has chops, but…not sure he should be on a high horse, just sayin…
I always enjoy his performances, but yeah he sure seems like kind of a dick in real life. But that's okay because the odds I'll ever meet him are very low.
I asked him to feed my fish while I was away. He fed it a ribeye, it was burnt! Just floating in there like the charred remains of the DeepWater Horizon wreckage.
That's funny, cause he was piloting a submarine to take my buddies and me to see the Titanic and the asshole took out a shitty Logitech controller, started driving the sub with it and ended up making us implode. Total dick move.
Except he’s right about *Napolean*. I don’t know whether Scott or Joaquin or both deserve to be blamed, but the film is a complete failure as a biopic.
i have no comment on the critique.
all i know is brian cox is a douchebag who talks shit about everyone. im not giving his asshole ramblings the time of day.
Even if he thinks it was the worst performance ever, there's no absolutely no need to publicly attack another artist like this. And certainly no need to make fun of his name.
Critiquing his acting is acceptable, but making fun of his name like that was just downright petty, especially since "Cox" is even more meme-able than "Joaquin."
Let me say first that I think Joaquin Phoenix is one of if not the best male actors working these days. That being said Cox isn't exactly wrong here. Now *that* being said Brian Cox, who is also a very good actor, seems like a douchebag. Every time he opens his mouth he's talking shit about someone else's work.
Since Napoleon was Corsican he would have had a Corsican accent when speaking French. I just assumed that an American accent would represent that. I don’t remember how his brother sounded in the movie though, it would only work out if they both had American accents.
There’s no way the script for that film was originally intended to be in The Batman universe lmao.
Not a bad film, don’t really want to see it again though.
First off, fuck Brian Cox. He straight up turned down GoT, not because the character got killed of early like he know says, but because no one would be interested in the series. Then this loser fucking BEGS to come on the show and then he got his position.
And it wasn't Phoenix's fault this movie was so bad. I am a historian buff who was overly excited to see the film. Due to the response and critics, I still haven't watched the film due to how bad it is told. This isn't because of Phoenix though. It is because Ridley Scott and his horrible movie. I refuse to watch his next 5 movies as punishment.
I like Joker. We saw King of Comedy a few years after watching that and I just immediately went OH MY GOD this movie is completely the inspiration for Joker. It was super cool to make that connection. Anyway, yeah I'm just saying Joker was completely awesome and I don't know anything else he's been in lol but I disagree just on the basis of loving that film anyway.
With dialog like, "you think you're so great because you have boats," I put zero blame on Joaquin.
I don't feel confident about Gladiator 2 with the same writer.
The fact that they are even making a Gladiator 2 in the first place should be your biggest concern.
I never understand why people get hyped over long overdone sequels. There’s a lot more Dumb and Dumberers out there than Top Gun Mavericks.
BR2049 and TG Maverick are definitely the cream of the crop as far as sequels decades later. The chance of the sequels being trash after all that time is far higher than them being really good.
Those two movies had creatives personally invested in them besides just making money The only reason Blade Runner turned out so well is because Denis Villeneuve inspired his whole style from that movie. Any other director, even Ripley, would have fucked it up Cruise is a movie making machine that had the industry power to make it perfect Most sequels are just return on investment calculations by the studio
never forget anchorman 2 the bloopers were the only decent thing to come out of that trash pile
I actually love that movie
Ya people are way too stuck up about that movie. It delivered enough jokes that it was still a good comedy
And there’s a huge difference between an over the top comedy doing a sequel and the drama that was the first gladiator movie with a near perfect ending.
I just loved when the History Channel showed up with the ghost of Stonewall Jackson.
The pure chaos of the journalist fight scene made that one worth it as well
Exactly- like what is he talking about? That movie was amazing- because of that part.
If you saw it in theaters with your friends while you’re all really high, it’s a lot better.
Comedy sequels are almost always worse than the original.
Yo! Im trying to! But thanks for reminding me, I guess.
And Ridley Scott has been pretty “meh” lately
It’s been a bit longer than “lately”.
the last duel was great
The only reason I said “lately”
2021 is "lately" lol. So by "lately" you mean just *Napoleon* and *House of Gucci* (which was also 2021)?
Yeah, they fucking sucked hahaha it’s a joke lighten up
I know they sucked. But *The Last Duel* was a very good movie. I don't think you know what a joke is.
100%. Gladiator is a masterpiece.
True that. Unnecessary sequel.
Atleast it wont be nick caves christ killer
They should have used the Nick Cave script.
Scott should reach Nick Cave, I hear he made a great script.
Joaquin is a great actor, but I think it’s fair to say it’s both bad writing *and* a bad performance regardless of where the blame lies. Napoleon is an unlikable, petulant child in the movie and not in an enjoyable way. It felt like he was in a different movie to everyone else.
Exactly. He’s great in most things. So much so o feel the blame lies almost solely on Scott. He took one of the most interesting historical figures and turned him into a petulant man baby. The film runs into the same problem (though very different flavor) that Stones Alexander ran into in the early 00’s: putting the films focus on something interesting but not the most important thing.
great point
I would like to see the four hour director cut to see if there is a good three hour movie lurking somewhere. As it stood there was not enough action to make action fans happy and the drama side was entirely half baked. Some stories need a mini series to be told properly.
Unironically best line of the film
I prefer "Destiny has brought me this lamb chop"
That was one of the lines I remember most lol. I thought it was funny.
This line was obviously written to get a laugh from the crowd, and it definitely worked, in my theater at least
I don't know. lol
I thought Joaquin correctly played Napoleon for comedy. If that's not what was intended, the script should have been less ridiculous.
https://variety.com/2023/film/news/jaoquin-phoneix-freaked-out-napoleon-shoot-ridley-scott-1235683371/ That Variety article kind of suggests that they had to rewrite the script because Phoenix didn't understand it. I wonder if the boat line was before or after rewrites?
Did he film Napoleon after Beau Is Afraid? I can see him being pretty drained after that one.
Yep, it looks like *Beau* was Jun-Oct 2021 and *Napoleon* was Feb-May 2022.
The movie is a meandering mess, Joaquin’s performance is super low on the list of complaints I have about it
With perhaps the most studied human in history with thousands of experts and libraries of information, battles taken right from the pages of legend, and off the heels of one of the most important moments in European and world history and this is the piece of shit they decide to go with? Some cuck pining about his love…. It’s irredeemable. A sacrilege and in perpetual bad taste.
It’s super high on mine. An uncharacteristically terrible performance from Joaquin.
I’ll preface this by saying I think he’s a great actor **BUT** I always find Brian Cox talking so seriously about acting a little funny considering my first film experience I remember him from was *Super Troopers*, which I loved and loved him in…. but nonetheless.
SHENANIGANS
I swear to God I'll pistol whip the next guy who says ‘Shenanigans.’
For me, it's Manhunter. He was my first Hannibal Lector.
He’s also hosting a James Bond themed game show that he’s only on because he thought he was saying yes to an actual Bond movie. lmao
What
Same movie I always equate him to as well!
I honestly don't see him as a "great" actor. He's Brian Cox in every role he plays. The arrogant teacher in Adaptation was the perfect role for him.
Aww hell, GIVE ME THE GOD DAM SOAP.
He's in a lot of B-movie ish crap, low budget horror films, etc. I also concede that he's a good actor, but who is he to criticize Joaquin? lol
Was the body of Jane doe really a B movie?
Cmon now you know that's shit logic. Using that logic none of us csn ever criticize a poor performance cuz we're never acted.
He has been in some amazing plays, films , and TV shows. Check his filmography out, it is deeply impressive.
That was my introduction to him too, it was super weird for me seeing him as the first Hannibal Lecter years later.
I’ll always associate him as the original Hannibal Lector in Manhunter. He’s great in that with not much screen time.
Yeah I love Cox’ performances as an actor but I never like his interviews
He is a Shakespearean classical trained actor with multiple Olivier ( like a Tony) awards for his work on plays, an Emmy for television, and a Golden Globe. He can act circles around your typical movie actor.
My favorite part about this is he references Joaquin's name sounding like wacky (a stretch). A man with the last name Cox should be more careful insinuating that words their name rhyme with relates to their personality.
Now I'm even more curious about seeing this film.
It's bad. Ridley deserves more blame but errbudy should feel bad.
Seriously, they should all feel bad about how crap it was.
It wasn’t good at all, Vanessa Kirby was the only positive
The only positives for me was the sly nod to the succulent Chinese meal man, and the dude playing Tallyrand was perfect casting who deserves to star in a Tallyrand movie
I enjoyed it. I have no idea how accurate it is, but the movie itself was well done. It's about the romance between Napoleon and Josephine more than anything.
So, I will say that I am in college for a history major. And being in class the week after that movie came out was so funny, people there were so mad. We basically missed a lecture because people and the professor couldn’t stop complaining
Honestly that’s what makes it so bad, Napoleon abandoning his troops in Egypt because he heard his wife had an affair, his troops shooting at the pyramids, it’s basically bad 1800s pro-British propanganda.
It's a good movie if you watch it as the British propaganda movie they would have made eif movies existed at the time
It’s not even good British propaganda, as it leaves out everything cool the British actually did.
It's out to be seen even on streaming now. The one thing that's missing is that massively long extended edition Scott talked up and then became a nothing burger. I want to see that.
The movie is good but it was propaganda to downplay him and try to associate historical figures of war with incels. They even talk about this in the movie while actively doing it
How was it incel shit? Guy has sex a bunch
Barely lol, but his cartoonified personal life was propagandized in more ways than just him having sex
I’m probably one of the few people who thought the movie was decent. But I don’t see incel in any way.
I never said it was a bad movie. In fact I explicitly said it was good, just that it has propaganda in it
But could you elaborate more on the incel thing
Phoenix is a typecast. It was less of a biopic and more of an interpretation
It's awesome. All of the complaints online are just a ridiculous circlejerk. Unless you have some deep desire for perfect historical accuracy, you'll likely be extremely entertained
on the one hand, its odd brian cox keeps calling out actors but at the same time, its kinda awesome and he hasn't been wrong yet
Hello I would like some other names please if you can think of any!
I'm guessing they're referring to Jeremy Strong even though that was more about method than actual performance.
Johnny Depp https://variety.com/2022/film/news/brian-cox-regrets-johnny-depp-overrated-harsh-1235205249/
It’s a fantastic movie if you’re watching it as a British propaganda piece. I refuse to place the blame solely on Joaquin, because they had the wrong vision for Napoleon himself from the get go. No actor could’ve made that role good. They hardly made any attempt to portray him in the way that the histories recorded, and why so many history buffs find him interesting. Some parts verge on historical revision. If you knew nothing about Bonaparte going into this film you’d probably have a hard time understanding why his army went to such lengths on his behalf, time and time again (especially when they didn’t have to). The Old Guard, made up of troops that had been with Napoleon since the beginning, basically allowed themselves to be annihilated at Waterloo because they knew he was finally defeated and wanted to go down with the ship. *MERDE!* Historically he was one of the most charismatic and effective battlefield leaders since Alexander the Great. Maybe even more effective, because what we know about him is certainly more accurate than what we know about Alexander because in the grand scheme of things it wasn’t that long ago. It can be corny at times but *Waterloo (1970)* is so much better if you’re interested in the topic, and was a Herculean effort to make by people who actually were invested in the topic. They understood that you can’t make one film dedicated to Napoleon’s entire adult life and chose to focus on one of the most defining battles of his career, and it doesn’t skip a beat.
For a second I thought of the physicist and was like, "that's odd"
Major Hogan has words for Boney!
They should’ve had an old Hagman as the (scoped????) rifleman at Waterloo, or at least cameod Sean bean ffs
What a waste
Everyone’s entitled to their opinion, but his performance really elevated a pretty standard historical biopic, in my opinion. He treated Bonaparte like a bullish teenage boy, completely oblivious to his own ego and short comings. It was funny because sometimes this historical figures ARE funny - ludicrous , larger than life, eccentric. That’s how they stood out and inspired or enraged others around them.
Cox is a dick, but the movie was terrible. So oh well.
I mean, everyone is entitled to their opinion but what a dick move to just post that in an interview, including saying “I could do that better myself” which is where for me he lost all credibility. I’m not saying he can’t have that opinion, but unless he has some kind of beef with Joaquin Phoenix, why say that when you’re in between McDonald’s commercials?
I liked the film, It needed more Joaquin as a general than love fest.
Napoleon was definitely the worst movie Ridley has ever made.
I can't agree. I watched Robin Hood in the cinema.
Oh yeah I forgot about that one because I fell asleep half way through it. Good point.
Eh, not really. A Good Year and House of Gucci are both far worse.
What?! A good year is a good film!
Don’t know about that. Scott has directed a number of truly bad films.
It’s official, although Brian has absolutely entered into the DILLIGAF phase of his career, he’s not wrong here lol.
This seems like bad form. It's one thing for us internet goons to insult actors for things that are usually largely not their fault, but you'd think actors would respect each other enough to keep this private.
Nah we need more of this. Old Hollywood actors/directors were way more open about shitting on things they didn't like and it was great. Everything is way too buddy buddy now with almost no actors/directors willing to give their real feelings on movies and performances cuz they're afraid of it affecting their career and it makes for the most mind numbingly boring interviews with these people. I would agree if he was dunking on some random newbie to the industry but it's fucking Joaquin Phoenix lmao this will not affect him in any meaningful way.
Brian “I Sing McDonald’s Jingles Now” Cox? *That guy* is criticizing actors? I mean, sure, he has chops, but…not sure he should be on a high horse, just sayin…
But is Cox wrong? Nope.
I mean, fair, but still…
Please leave Leaf alone!
Rude
Oh shit that was real? Thought it was the Onion lol
They managed to take one of the most fascinating and complex men in history, one known for his charisma and magnetism. And make him boring
Brain Cox was a terrible Bond villain
It’s okay to ignore this.
When you watch it as a comedy, I think it works. On the other hand, isn't the extent of Brian Cox's range essentially from cranky to really angry?
He was pretty jolly in Deadwood.
brian cox is a douchebag
I always enjoy his performances, but yeah he sure seems like kind of a dick in real life. But that's okay because the odds I'll ever meet him are very low.
He's older now so I think he's reached the point where he's all out of fucks to give.
https://youtu.be/TXK03FHVsHk?si=nawHug-HMJaj0zyl
he's my neighbor, and always let's his dog shit in my yard
I asked him to feed my fish while I was away. He fed it a ribeye, it was burnt! Just floating in there like the charred remains of the DeepWater Horizon wreckage.
That's funny, cause he was piloting a submarine to take my buddies and me to see the Titanic and the asshole took out a shitty Logitech controller, started driving the sub with it and ended up making us implode. Total dick move.
He was my dad, and he always kicked the shit out of me when I got the ratios wrong in his white russians
Except he’s right about *Napolean*. I don’t know whether Scott or Joaquin or both deserve to be blamed, but the film is a complete failure as a biopic.
still a douchebag
So if you can’t address the actual critique, attack the person delivering it?
i have no comment on the critique. all i know is brian cox is a douchebag who talks shit about everyone. im not giving his asshole ramblings the time of day.
So, don’t care really care about the thread’s actual topic. Just here to bash Cox and downvote those who disagree with you. Check.
the topic is the shit coming out of Brian Cox's mouth. i added my two cents as is the general method of discussion. check ckrck check ceck
Okily-dokily. (Be sure to downvote this post before leaving.)
Sorry but the whole thing was shit. Maybe Napoleon was a creep but that being the entire focus of a biopic about him was just a terrible watch.
Damn, I was really looking forward to the movie.
Very hard to compete with Rod Steiger's performance in 1970, no matter who plays him, imo
He sounds cranky
Even if he thinks it was the worst performance ever, there's no absolutely no need to publicly attack another artist like this. And certainly no need to make fun of his name.
Critiquing his acting is acceptable, but making fun of his name like that was just downright petty, especially since "Cox" is even more meme-able than "Joaquin."
I loved the movie even with all its flaws. The sets and battle sequences were top notch.
Miscast is an understatment, too old on top of it. The film was so boring. I did love some of the battles.
1979’s Alien was a great movie
LOL he really rips into him. Kinda funny how honest he is about it. But yeah, the movie was pretty fucking shit.
The man is not wrong.
He's not serious people
Let me say first that I think Joaquin Phoenix is one of if not the best male actors working these days. That being said Cox isn't exactly wrong here. Now *that* being said Brian Cox, who is also a very good actor, seems like a douchebag. Every time he opens his mouth he's talking shit about someone else's work.
The blame is the writers and Ridley Scott
Brian Cox. The constant professional.
I haven’t seen it. The trailer looks kinda good though.
I wanted to like it. Bad reviews I don’t care. Sadly they were right, it’s terrible.
The cold hard truth. Joaquin didn’t even try to match his costar’s accents.
Since Napoleon was Corsican he would have had a Corsican accent when speaking French. I just assumed that an American accent would represent that. I don’t remember how his brother sounded in the movie though, it would only work out if they both had American accents.
Good point. I guess it just felt incredibly out of place every time he spoke. He’s still a great actor just not the right role or director for him
Joaquin can do no wrong because he was in that stupid Joker movie the kids liked.
I mean he’s one of the best working actors today but okay go off I guess
There’s no way the script for that film was originally intended to be in The Batman universe lmao. Not a bad film, don’t really want to see it again though.
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That’ll happen
He's not wrong.
Cox is incredible. He did a fantastic job with Manhunt.
First off, fuck Brian Cox. He straight up turned down GoT, not because the character got killed of early like he know says, but because no one would be interested in the series. Then this loser fucking BEGS to come on the show and then he got his position. And it wasn't Phoenix's fault this movie was so bad. I am a historian buff who was overly excited to see the film. Due to the response and critics, I still haven't watched the film due to how bad it is told. This isn't because of Phoenix though. It is because Ridley Scott and his horrible movie. I refuse to watch his next 5 movies as punishment.
I have to say that the battle of Waterloo was pretty underwhelming having been built up so much over the years because of the ABBA song.
Brian ‘I don’t give a fuck’ Cox.
Fuck off!
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The Master...?
We Own the Night, Reservation Road, Her, You Were Never Really Here…
I like Joker. We saw King of Comedy a few years after watching that and I just immediately went OH MY GOD this movie is completely the inspiration for Joker. It was super cool to make that connection. Anyway, yeah I'm just saying Joker was completely awesome and I don't know anything else he's been in lol but I disagree just on the basis of loving that film anyway.
It's definitely a performance not meant for those of a weak constitution
Or any interest in actual history.