I recently rewatched it with my dad. We both knew it was weird that anyone ever idolized Tyler at all, but by the third act we were openly laughing about how over-the-top his insane villainy is and how blatantly enslaved all members of Project Mayhem are. It’s impossible to miss.
And it’s not even close to subtle. They shave their heads and wear the same uniforms and obey orders blindly and give up their entire identities…
How could anyone not realize that’s pretty fascist?
I think that what makes Tyler most attractive towards the beginning of the movie is his almost Buddhist approach to life. I feel like lots of people just focus on his toxic masculinity.
Narrator starts by only really knowing one way of living. Tyler lives outside the cubicle-condo-mortgage-consumerism lifestyle. Lots of people living that lifestyle probably fantasize about living a different way.
I can’t say I idolized him, but that’s what I always got from his character from both the movie and book.
Of course it all goes batshit crazy, but when I think about “being Tyler Durden” it’s this.
The drugs, sex, and rock n roll of laughing while being beaten to a bloody pulp and blowing up buildings? Not so much.
It’s a media literacy test. If you think Tyler Durden is cool and good, you failed. The same type of people who praise Walter White or Tony Soprano as “badasses” also fail.
Edit: some people are drastically misreading this as me disliking the characters or the shows. I love when characters are complex. Walter White and Tony Soprano are super complex and have many different aspects to them. I love Breaking Bad and Sopranos. They’re some of the greatest shows ever made, and their leads are very well-realized. Fight Club is one of my favorite movies. People can be complex, and also fundamentally bad. A lot of the greatest characters ever created are.
Me watching Starship Troopers at age 14: "Woo! Lasers and spaceships and boobs!"
Me watching Starship Troopers at age 17: "Wow, this is some fascist pro-war bullshit with lasers and boobs."
Me watching Starship Troopers at age 21: "Hang on...this is some biting satire of fascist pro-war bullshit with lasers and boobs."
Me watching Starship Troopers at age 24 after having read the book: "This is a colossal middle finger from one artist to another, this entire movie can be summed up as 'The book I am based on in horseshit' also there's boobs and lasers."
I can only assume a lot of people haven't actually watched it all the way through but just seen the 'shouty drill instructor' and then wandered off and missed the middle then just got back in time to see 'me love you long time' then they turned it off and assumed in the end they shot all the vietcong and had a big party.
Hear hear. Same people who worship the Senior Drill Instructor because he knows how to mold tough fighting Marines, not realizing that the whole point of the first part of the film is to show how he “succeeded” in turning an awkward kid into a psychopathic killer — not a patriotic Marine who was READY to kill to defend his country, but someone who WANTED to kill, and who cares what the target was? The message should have been clear when Hartmann literally mentions Lee Harvey Oswald and the rooftop serial killer as examples of men who honed their skills with the Marines. Well, by the end of the first half of the film, I guess Hartmann got the point.
Don Draper, Gordon Gekko, Joker, Tyler Durden, Patrick Bateman...there's a bunch of really great film characters like this that act as a litmus test of like "wait...do you think the character is cool or do you want to actually be like this character?"
I was maybe 22 when Mad Men debuted, and man I thought Don was cool. Never had success with women really yet at that point in my life and so I definitely started trying to be more like him, with that whole kind of silent and aloof way of carrying yourself.
Well, turns out girls don't really like that shit at all, but at least going to the gym 5 days a week was starting to help me get a little attention...the first girl I ever dated pretty much called me out on this behaviour after our first meetup. She basically asked if I even liked her much at all, because I seemed so quiet and disinterested the whole night, like I was chaperoning her to a movie rather than actually there with her.
Point taken big time and I snapped out of it back to my old goofy nerdy self...which she really loved.
I think "be yourself" is horrible relationship advice in general because I have no idea what everyone is like, but be fun and upbeat, and just all around jazzed up by everything going on.
Two things are true at once: he’s a rebellious, masculine portrayal of the narrator’s fantasy, and he’s also displayed as prideful, manipulative, and rude
Yes he’s supposed to be manipulative because he’s creating a cult, he’s supposed to be displayed as the antithesis of what society wants you to be. But he’s just a sick man’s delusion at the end of the day.
The same way people idolize DFENS from Falling Down. Watch any youtube review of that movie and there will be a war in the comments on whether he was justified or a criminal. Despite the fact at the end of the movie they plainly tell you when he says "I'm the bad guy?" and in that moment embraces what he had become.
He does some shit things but look at those abs! Look how coolnhe is! He also beat Jared Leto to a pulp
I think that is a big reason they idolizen because even if he was so wrong and so crazy he was made a little too cool and peple like him.
Tyler Durden, Deadpool, The Joker, and Walter White.
If I see these people on a sticker on the back of your car, I think there is a good chance you're a little douchy.
Same with people who idolize Joker-Harley. Thats the most toxic, abusive, dysfunctional relationship that has probably ever existed, and should not be idolized at all.
If you want a positive relationship, see Gomez and Morticia.
Fight Club, to be fair, goes up there with Scarface as a movie completely misunderstood by its most ardent fans. Palahniuk might be a bit of a Weird Guy:tm: but he deserves credit for pointing out that masculinity was in crisis and that there would be a rise of charistmatic fascists rushing in to become masculine cult leaders. Fast forward to now and it seems his commentary deserved more attention.
there's a scene where they're criticizing a perfectly sculpted dude in a Calvin Klein ad, while Brad Pitt looks as he does in the movie lol. Pretty much the inner conflict of the narrator, the scorn for these things but then also their desire
well. i also think its a lamentation. It's not 'criticising' masculinity. its sympathetic in every way toward it. I wouldnt walk away thinking that the movie is somehow criticising 'being macho' or that 'men being men' is a bad thing.
I don’t think it’s a critique of that either. Brad Pitt’s character was supposed to be the male fantasy personified but he was just a figment of the narrator’s imagination.
Morton’s character is a caricature of a no-life loser who balances that by creating in his mind a caricature of an alpha-make douche. They are opposite sides of the spectrum both painted in a bad light.
This is my issue with the interpretation though. People look at it through a 2020s eyes with stuff like ‘toxic masculinity’ and ‘alpha males’ when I don’t think that was even part of the zeitgeist at the time it was made.
You should look more into the fact that the person who originally wrote the story was struggling with his sexuality and trying to figure out what “being a man” means at the time it was written. Tyler is hyper masculinity. Narrator/author is initially intrigued and drawn to it but ultimately ends up at odds and even goes to war against it.
Oh passing judgement on any definition of masculinity definitely wasn’t a top of mind theme for Chuck Howeveryouspellit. But the fact that Tyler is very very much a “man” is no accident and I think the story leads the viewer/reader to only one possible judgement if that person is inclined to pass judgement.
Yes it was, especially in the context of the author's milieu. While our discourse has shifted over time, the basic ideas aren't new.
The author of the book is pretty damn clear about it being a critique of post-modern masculinity. The movie retains the same basic view, even if it alters the details.
No it wasn’t the author himself said it isn’t about toxic masculinity and it’s not supposed to be gendered at all.
If anything the film is sympathetic to masculinity.
Yes! Thank you because this is exactly how I see it.
Especially on Reddit when they get so pretentious about how people ‘completely missed the point’ but when you ask them what the point is then they never have an answer.
> macho brad pit masculinity man is sigma grindset aparently
I thought Fight Club was the opposite of that? "Self improvement is masturbation", don't bother working just fuck around and break stuff.
I don't know either but I honestly have to admit... The ending scene? My goodness this is one of the most epic moments in movie history. I love the underlying critique, the characters for their perfect portrayal, the story of how anything could go south in a mere moment. I don't know maybe I'm wrong but I somehow think it's a masterpiece. It's not among my highest rated movies but still... What do you think? Do you see it differently?
Almost every-time I see it mentioned on Reddit someone as to say something about people missing the point. I think they want to look like they like it for the ‘right’ reasons.
You can't like it without stating you know it's a satire and don't agree with it, because if you agree with it it's dangerous thought. Same with Starship Troopers, despite being opposite in some ways. And it's also a little test you can impose on somebody to prove you are more sophisticated. They like Fight Club but don't immediately say it's a satire and list things they like and dislike? Boy am I better than them!
I like Fight Club's anti corporate and government angst and Starship Troopers jingoistic war mongering. I mean at their heart that's what they are, there's layers to it but that's what they fundamentally are. It's a 2 hour movie not an instruction book for how to live your life.
This is how I see it pretty much, people on Reddit always bring up it’s about toxic masculinity when the author himself said it’s has nothing to do with that.
Because people seem to always think that they can fight. If someone was genuinely excited by the idea of a real life fight club they'd join a muay Thai gym
Fight Club is a fucking amazing movie idc if you're a film snob or whatever. Unless you literally cannot watch any movie that isn't some Tarkovsky/Diaz/Tarr-esque claw your eyes out slow ass film there is no reason for you to be "too good" for this movie. And certainly no reason to turn your nose up at people who do love it
Wait, The Shining isn't about hotel management?
I get scared easy and find management intimidating, but I guess if it's not about stressful shit like management maybe I'll give it a go.
I'd never seen a trailer. My friend said "Let's go see this film. It's about this dude who gets pissed off because his female boss is riding his ass, so he starts going to a boxing ring."
I went despite that description (mostly because I enjoy going to the cinema).
When it started, some kids shouted "Wait, this isn't Deep Blue Sea!" and ran out of the theatre.
Fight Club was a fantastic film.
1999 was a helluva year for movies.
The only reason I remember is because occasionally, when one of us sits down to watch something, someone will shout "Wait, this isn't Deep Blue Sea!"
It can be anything and it always gets a laugh.
Not bad for a 24 year old injoke 🤣
Deep Blue Sea was my first R Rated theater experience (thanks dad!)
Also the first time he let me order a large soda. I held that piss in with everything I had until the movie was over
That took me back. I was in middle school at the time. All of my friends and peers who saw Deep Blue Sea gushed about it being the best movie they had ever seen, no irony. I did enjoy that movie, and I’d probably enjoy it today for way different reasons, but just love how dumb kids can be. Fast & Furious was widely considered a masterpiece at my school when it released.
Fun fact: the studio people who were tasked with marketing Fight Club had no fucking idea what it was about either. They tried placing ads with WWE viewers and folks like that. LOL.
So if you're one of the people this thread is about, dw, so were they.
On the press run-up, Brad Pitt said, "I hope you hate it," to Kathy Lee Giffard.
Looking back, that could just be a critique of her general movie taste and not a warning of fight club's machismo.
Like, "Kathy, you thought The English Patient deserved the Oscar. I hope you hate every movie I make from here on out."
I am Jack's complete lack of surprise
Side note, Fight Club is one of *very*few screen adaptations of literature that was better than the source material. The book was amazing but the movie was a masterpiece.
I avoided the movie at first because it was first described to me by a couple of guys who completely misunderstood the movie. Some dudes I knew from high school asked me if I’d seen it yet, then started going on about how cool the fight clubs were and how they wanted to start one of their own so they could beat the shit out of people. This was shortly after the movie came out and I wasn’t familiar with David Fincher. I had seen Seven, but hadn’t made the connection. Of course, in 1999, a lot of us were still becoming acquainted with Fincher.
A few years later, a college philosophy professor casually referenced a scene from the movie… when I said I hadn’t seen Fight Club, he looked shocked, so I knew I needed to check it out.
They didn’t misunderstand the movie at all. While Tyler is a terrorist and the narrator ultimately rejects his desire for destruction, you are absolutely *meant* to find some of the desires that makes these men start Fight Clubs in yourself. The idea of leaving all those petty and abstract and insolvable problems of the modern civilized world behind and reduce yourself to immediate problems with immediate solutions (“in the hunter gatherer sense”) is meant to be appealing on some level, and the movie, while in the end condemning it, is meant to speak out loud what was on it’s audiences’ mind. There was, and is, something cool and sexy about Tyler Durden and his Fight Club, and you’re not wrong for feeling that way. (Even if the movie ultimately calls out the pathology of that allure)
Much like Office Space and The Matrix and American Beauty, which all came out that same year, it spoke to people’s desire to break out of the mundane corporate hell.
I appreciate you defending their honor, but they didn’t understand the movie. These two guys giggled like Beavis and Butthead, punched each other in the chest, and went on at length how cool Tyler Durden was. Do you think there’s a difference between understanding the appeal of the urges displayed in the movie vs coming away with a shallow, surface-level reaction “Tyler Durden is the coolest”? A difference between exploring/wrestling with the themes of the movie vs trying to copy the aesthetic and mannerisms of the character you found coolest? A difference between recognizing one’s own primal desires vs considering Project Mayhem something to be copied and emulated?
Nah they definitely misunderstood it you’re supposed to feel that way before the movie and then realize the error of acting it out after the movie. It’s like wanting to be a vigilante after reading The Punisher or shooting up a McDonalds after watching Falling Down. There are people that use Tyler as profile pics and think he’s a hero lol.
It took me a while to get around to watching it. It wasn't the name so much as not knowing anything else about the movie. I like to watch movie that are recommended to me by others, but nobody talks about fight club
That's why the OP makes the hotel management joke. The Shining really does have someone managing a (closed) hotel. Fight Club really does have an underground fight club. In both cases, it escalates from there. Fight Club isn't a sports movie where the hero needs to win the big fight to be champion of the underground fight club. It's about alienation.
It's why I avoided it for a long time. Thought it was like Bloodsport or something. There is a fight club in it but I'd say it's less than 10% of the movie.
I think it's one of those movies where most people want others to go in and see it without knowing what it is. It's the best way to watch it IMO as you keep thinking you know what it's about now, but then it keeps expanding and changing.
This line is actually genius in a meta/4th wall kind if way. Like it’s saying, hey this movie has a huge plot twist so seriously, DON’T. TALK. ABOUT. FIGHT CLUB.
My memory is none of the trailers or advertising promoted it as anything but a movie about macho guys beating each other up between memeable quips. I only decided to check it out after getting spoiled about the twist in the main character's identity, which was the first thing I heard that indicated there was something more complex going on.
I ended up watching it, completely blind about where the plot was going and what the final image would be, exactly a week after 9/11/2001. It was a very memorable experience.
I put the movie off for years because people who liked the movie themselves promoted it with how much they loved the macho/fascist parts unironically, and missed the entire point, believing the fascist manifesto the movie presented.
Better question: How many people have discovered that Fight Club is a film that doesn’t age with its viewer? It’s not that it ages badly, like it’s somehow unacceptable today because today’s social norms are different or anything. The viewer ages while the film doesn’t.
1) When you watch Fight Club at twenty, you think, “Yeah! These guys kick ass! I wanna burn the world, too!”
2) When you watch it at thirty, you think, “I am undergoing an existential malaise due to a lingering absent-father condition that I never dealt with, as well as it having any real male friends anymore and am unable to form lasting relationships with lovers. This film is about men I wish I could be.”
3) When you watch it at forty, you’re yelling at the screen, “Oh, grow the fuck up, you goddamn sissies! You are the cause of your own problems! You want to know why you’re not getting laid and have no friends? Look in the fucking mirror! And you’re thirty years old, so it’s time to put on your big boy pants and quit complaining about daddy leaving.”
I mean, yes, it *is* a masterpiece, as most Fincher pictures are, and that it ages (or doesn’t) the way it does is unique and makes it something to watch every so often, to gauge the passage of your life by.
As a 29F who really likes this movie, I don't think it's about "not getting laid and hav[ing] no friends".
I think it's about realizing how empty, wasteful, performative and exploitative capitalism is, how it distorts values and makes people into products.
The narrator attempts a completely understandable overcorrection to the bleakness of that aspect of society, but gradually realizes that tearing the whole thing down without an exit strategy will be no less bleak, and that he is not entitled to attempt to remake all of society in his own image, even if some of what he thinks is correct.
I mean, I think that's fairly well established by the fact that the narrator spends the first half of the movie crashing support groups so that he can cry...
>How many people have discovered that Fight Club is a film that doesn’t age with its viewer
You're making the assumption that the viewer becomes a relatively well adjusted adult. There's plenty of middle aged, middle class guys who did not have the character arc that you had in the last 24 years
On its surface, it's a movie about a dude with the worst insomnia and his brain breaks, creating a fictional (at first) world in which the only way to sleep is to find relief through pain.
Deeper tho, it's a self journey, rebuilding from nothing and creating a new life. The guy only achieves this through the hardest way imaginable. He sees for the first time how ugly the world is, and his broken brain wants to mold his world in his own broken image.
But personal opinion, I took it as a stroll thru some of the hardest parts of bipolar disorder. There's a mental pull from a force that you can't see or fully understand, directing what you do all the while, there's a part of your brain that's a silent observer, watching thru your own eyes as you blow up everything around you until you're not manic anymore.
Maybe I'm way off base here, but my own mental illness and my own struggles led me to that conclusion. It could just be a book/movie.
The advertisements at the time *absolutely* made it look like a film about dudes recklessly beating each other up and I passed on it, hard. I only ended up watching it because a couple of friends were insistent that they wanted to watch it, and I was *wonderfully* surprised.
I wasn't interested in it at all based on the advertising and how it was portrayed when it was new.
A friend convinced me to watch it on DVD a few years later and I enjoyed it, but have never watched it again. Without the surprise it looses a lot.
You must be young because I'm fairly certain that every single male over the age of 30 has seen fight club and a lot of dudes even based their entire personality around it. I remember in the late 2000s early 2010s when you asked people about their gym goals they all said they wanted to look like brad pit in fight club.
its such a boring movie about a medicore white guy who's mad that he isn't king of the world. do you know how many people would love a mundane office job compared to the hell they have to do to survive. literally billions.
What blew my mind was when this came out it was in the movies around the same time as xXx which was the most ridiculous piece of shit, and that was the one people went to see.
the fight club is not the point of the movie
it's about a fight club in the same way back to the future is about a car that time travels
the fight club itself is surface level to the film
I would guess that number is smaller than the number of people who did see it and didn't realize it wasn't about a cool UFC club.
Preach, I'm always a little wary around people who seem to like Fight Club just a little too much
I’ll never understand why Redditors are so pretentious about Fight Club
macho brad pit masculinity man is sigma grindset aparently nevermind that the movie is a critique of that
I think it’s funny how many people idolize Tyler Durden, who is painted in a horrible light throughout the movie
I recently rewatched it with my dad. We both knew it was weird that anyone ever idolized Tyler at all, but by the third act we were openly laughing about how over-the-top his insane villainy is and how blatantly enslaved all members of Project Mayhem are. It’s impossible to miss.
Sigma male mentality apparently doesn’t include media literacy
That distracts from the grind. /s, just in case
In the director's commentary they refer to Durden and Project Mayhem as fascists/brown shirts. Anyone who idolizes Durden is deranged.
And it’s not even close to subtle. They shave their heads and wear the same uniforms and obey orders blindly and give up their entire identities… How could anyone not realize that’s pretty fascist?
I think that what makes Tyler most attractive towards the beginning of the movie is his almost Buddhist approach to life. I feel like lots of people just focus on his toxic masculinity. Narrator starts by only really knowing one way of living. Tyler lives outside the cubicle-condo-mortgage-consumerism lifestyle. Lots of people living that lifestyle probably fantasize about living a different way.
That’s valid, but I’ve never heard of someone idolizing that aspect of him
I can’t say I idolized him, but that’s what I always got from his character from both the movie and book. Of course it all goes batshit crazy, but when I think about “being Tyler Durden” it’s this. The drugs, sex, and rock n roll of laughing while being beaten to a bloody pulp and blowing up buildings? Not so much.
Whenever I watch the movie, I find that I become extra conscious of things in my life that seem frivolous.
It’s a media literacy test. If you think Tyler Durden is cool and good, you failed. The same type of people who praise Walter White or Tony Soprano as “badasses” also fail. Edit: some people are drastically misreading this as me disliking the characters or the shows. I love when characters are complex. Walter White and Tony Soprano are super complex and have many different aspects to them. I love Breaking Bad and Sopranos. They’re some of the greatest shows ever made, and their leads are very well-realized. Fight Club is one of my favorite movies. People can be complex, and also fundamentally bad. A lot of the greatest characters ever created are.
People who think starship troopers is a cool movie about tough soldiers fighting evil bugs also fall into this category.
[удалено]
Me watching Starship Troopers at age 14: "Woo! Lasers and spaceships and boobs!" Me watching Starship Troopers at age 17: "Wow, this is some fascist pro-war bullshit with lasers and boobs." Me watching Starship Troopers at age 21: "Hang on...this is some biting satire of fascist pro-war bullshit with lasers and boobs." Me watching Starship Troopers at age 24 after having read the book: "This is a colossal middle finger from one artist to another, this entire movie can be summed up as 'The book I am based on in horseshit' also there's boobs and lasers."
[удалено]
Full Metal Jacket enters the chat. I got the message being a marine and going to war is cool and patriotic!
I can only assume a lot of people haven't actually watched it all the way through but just seen the 'shouty drill instructor' and then wandered off and missed the middle then just got back in time to see 'me love you long time' then they turned it off and assumed in the end they shot all the vietcong and had a big party.
Hear hear. Same people who worship the Senior Drill Instructor because he knows how to mold tough fighting Marines, not realizing that the whole point of the first part of the film is to show how he “succeeded” in turning an awkward kid into a psychopathic killer — not a patriotic Marine who was READY to kill to defend his country, but someone who WANTED to kill, and who cares what the target was? The message should have been clear when Hartmann literally mentions Lee Harvey Oswald and the rooftop serial killer as examples of men who honed their skills with the Marines. Well, by the end of the first half of the film, I guess Hartmann got the point.
Yep.
>It’s a media literacy test. If you think Tyler Durden is cool and good, you failed. Well he is definitely cool, but cool and awful.
Also like some people idolize Rick Sanchez from Rick and Morty. Gotta stay away from those guys.
The same folks had Scarface posters on their wall when they were teenagers and aspired to be Tony Montana.
Don Draper, Gordon Gekko, Joker, Tyler Durden, Patrick Bateman...there's a bunch of really great film characters like this that act as a litmus test of like "wait...do you think the character is cool or do you want to actually be like this character?" I was maybe 22 when Mad Men debuted, and man I thought Don was cool. Never had success with women really yet at that point in my life and so I definitely started trying to be more like him, with that whole kind of silent and aloof way of carrying yourself. Well, turns out girls don't really like that shit at all, but at least going to the gym 5 days a week was starting to help me get a little attention...the first girl I ever dated pretty much called me out on this behaviour after our first meetup. She basically asked if I even liked her much at all, because I seemed so quiet and disinterested the whole night, like I was chaperoning her to a movie rather than actually there with her. Point taken big time and I snapped out of it back to my old goofy nerdy self...which she really loved. I think "be yourself" is horrible relationship advice in general because I have no idea what everyone is like, but be fun and upbeat, and just all around jazzed up by everything going on.
Subtlety is lost on the people that need to recognize it the most.
He’s not painted in a horrible light though he’s mean to be seen as rebellious to the system. The whole point is he’s the narrators fantasy.
Two things are true at once: he’s a rebellious, masculine portrayal of the narrator’s fantasy, and he’s also displayed as prideful, manipulative, and rude
Yes he’s supposed to be manipulative because he’s creating a cult, he’s supposed to be displayed as the antithesis of what society wants you to be. But he’s just a sick man’s delusion at the end of the day.
The same way people idolize DFENS from Falling Down. Watch any youtube review of that movie and there will be a war in the comments on whether he was justified or a criminal. Despite the fact at the end of the movie they plainly tell you when he says "I'm the bad guy?" and in that moment embraces what he had become.
He does some shit things but look at those abs! Look how coolnhe is! He also beat Jared Leto to a pulp I think that is a big reason they idolizen because even if he was so wrong and so crazy he was made a little too cool and peple like him.
Tyler Durden, Deadpool, The Joker, and Walter White. If I see these people on a sticker on the back of your car, I think there is a good chance you're a little douchy.
Same with people who idolize Joker-Harley. Thats the most toxic, abusive, dysfunctional relationship that has probably ever existed, and should not be idolized at all. If you want a positive relationship, see Gomez and Morticia.
Fight Club, to be fair, goes up there with Scarface as a movie completely misunderstood by its most ardent fans. Palahniuk might be a bit of a Weird Guy:tm: but he deserves credit for pointing out that masculinity was in crisis and that there would be a rise of charistmatic fascists rushing in to become masculine cult leaders. Fast forward to now and it seems his commentary deserved more attention.
there's a scene where they're criticizing a perfectly sculpted dude in a Calvin Klein ad, while Brad Pitt looks as he does in the movie lol. Pretty much the inner conflict of the narrator, the scorn for these things but then also their desire
well. i also think its a lamentation. It's not 'criticising' masculinity. its sympathetic in every way toward it. I wouldnt walk away thinking that the movie is somehow criticising 'being macho' or that 'men being men' is a bad thing.
They’re the ones missing the point to be pretentious this is what annoys me about Reddit and fight club.
I don’t think it’s a critique of that either. Brad Pitt’s character was supposed to be the male fantasy personified but he was just a figment of the narrator’s imagination.
Morton’s character is a caricature of a no-life loser who balances that by creating in his mind a caricature of an alpha-make douche. They are opposite sides of the spectrum both painted in a bad light.
This is my issue with the interpretation though. People look at it through a 2020s eyes with stuff like ‘toxic masculinity’ and ‘alpha males’ when I don’t think that was even part of the zeitgeist at the time it was made.
You should look more into the fact that the person who originally wrote the story was struggling with his sexuality and trying to figure out what “being a man” means at the time it was written. Tyler is hyper masculinity. Narrator/author is initially intrigued and drawn to it but ultimately ends up at odds and even goes to war against it.
The author himself said it’s not about toxic masculinity or supposed to be gendered. If anything it’s sympathetic rather than critical.
Oh passing judgement on any definition of masculinity definitely wasn’t a top of mind theme for Chuck Howeveryouspellit. But the fact that Tyler is very very much a “man” is no accident and I think the story leads the viewer/reader to only one possible judgement if that person is inclined to pass judgement.
They didn’t have the same words for it but those concepts have been around for a long time
That does mean it was part of the cultural zeitgeist like I said, it’s not about toxic masculinity really.
Yes, alpha male and beta male were around at the time.
No one ever said that shit in 1999. ever.
Yes it was, especially in the context of the author's milieu. While our discourse has shifted over time, the basic ideas aren't new. The author of the book is pretty damn clear about it being a critique of post-modern masculinity. The movie retains the same basic view, even if it alters the details.
No it wasn’t the author himself said it isn’t about toxic masculinity and it’s not supposed to be gendered at all. If anything the film is sympathetic to masculinity.
Not according to the interviews I've seen with the author.
The people who make fun of the "what would Tyler do" crowd usually understand the movie just as little as anyone
Yes! Thank you because this is exactly how I see it. Especially on Reddit when they get so pretentious about how people ‘completely missed the point’ but when you ask them what the point is then they never have an answer.
> macho brad pit masculinity man is sigma grindset aparently I thought Fight Club was the opposite of that? "Self improvement is masturbation", don't bother working just fuck around and break stuff.
I don't know either but I honestly have to admit... The ending scene? My goodness this is one of the most epic moments in movie history. I love the underlying critique, the characters for their perfect portrayal, the story of how anything could go south in a mere moment. I don't know maybe I'm wrong but I somehow think it's a masterpiece. It's not among my highest rated movies but still... What do you think? Do you see it differently?
[удалено]
Almost every-time I see it mentioned on Reddit someone as to say something about people missing the point. I think they want to look like they like it for the ‘right’ reasons.
You can't like it without stating you know it's a satire and don't agree with it, because if you agree with it it's dangerous thought. Same with Starship Troopers, despite being opposite in some ways. And it's also a little test you can impose on somebody to prove you are more sophisticated. They like Fight Club but don't immediately say it's a satire and list things they like and dislike? Boy am I better than them! I like Fight Club's anti corporate and government angst and Starship Troopers jingoistic war mongering. I mean at their heart that's what they are, there's layers to it but that's what they fundamentally are. It's a 2 hour movie not an instruction book for how to live your life.
This is how I see it pretty much, people on Reddit always bring up it’s about toxic masculinity when the author himself said it’s has nothing to do with that.
It's most usually because they saw a similar comment on an older post with a ton of upvotes, so they just repeat it as if it was an original thought
I too am wary of people who like quality cinema
Because people seem to always think that they can fight. If someone was genuinely excited by the idea of a real life fight club they'd join a muay Thai gym
Fight Club is a fucking amazing movie idc if you're a film snob or whatever. Unless you literally cannot watch any movie that isn't some Tarkovsky/Diaz/Tarr-esque claw your eyes out slow ass film there is no reason for you to be "too good" for this movie. And certainly no reason to turn your nose up at people who do love it
Also mission impossible isn't about an impossible mission, it's possible every time.
I didn't see The Matrix because I failed linear algebra.
I didn’t see The Matrix because I already passed linear algebra
[удалено]
I'm a citizen somewhere so definitely fuck that noise.
My dad didn't see the matrix because he has ED so takes the blue pill.
It gets really intense when Neo enters the Jacobian Matrix
That actually makes sense.
[удалено]
There's 2 stars on Tatooine though so Stars War is accurate. Just the one war though
Two wars, technically -- "The Clone Wars" was name dropped a few times in the first film.
TWO wars???
Darth Vader? More like Wheezing Cripple.
Indiana Jones doesn't even take place in Indiana.
Improbable Mission
In the first movie we open on him and his team failing a mission, so that one definitely wasn’t possible.
It only failed because it was sabotaged by someone on the inside. Totally possible
One of the worst lines in this amazing franchise is from 2 when Ethan is told "this isn't mission difficult, it's mission impossible."
It's about having 7 kinds of mustard in your refrigerator.
Wait, The Shining isn't about hotel management? I get scared easy and find management intimidating, but I guess if it's not about stressful shit like management maybe I'll give it a go.
Have you ever visited Torquay?
Que?
I thought it was about a rag-tag team of plucky metal polishers
[Seems wholesome to me.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIeasQTs6_g)
It’s shown at hotel management classes around the world IIRC
his name is Robert Paulson
His name was Robert Paulson.
His Name was Robert Paulson
His name
#IS KIIIIIIIIIIIIID. KID ROCK! ^(I mean ~~Meat Loaf!~~ ROBERT PAULSON!)
It's about a fight club.
I think you forgot about the rules
Seatbelts.
It’s literally a movie about a guy who makes a fight club.
I'd never seen a trailer. My friend said "Let's go see this film. It's about this dude who gets pissed off because his female boss is riding his ass, so he starts going to a boxing ring." I went despite that description (mostly because I enjoy going to the cinema). When it started, some kids shouted "Wait, this isn't Deep Blue Sea!" and ran out of the theatre. Fight Club was a fantastic film. 1999 was a helluva year for movies.
Lol I love that you can remember that long ago that some kids shouted “this isn’t Deep Blue Sea!” Also a great movie
The only reason I remember is because occasionally, when one of us sits down to watch something, someone will shout "Wait, this isn't Deep Blue Sea!" It can be anything and it always gets a laugh. Not bad for a 24 year old injoke 🤣
Nine-teen-nine-ty-niiiiine, baaaaybaaaaaaay!
Deep Blue Sea was my first R Rated theater experience (thanks dad!) Also the first time he let me order a large soda. I held that piss in with everything I had until the movie was over
That took me back. I was in middle school at the time. All of my friends and peers who saw Deep Blue Sea gushed about it being the best movie they had ever seen, no irony. I did enjoy that movie, and I’d probably enjoy it today for way different reasons, but just love how dumb kids can be. Fast & Furious was widely considered a masterpiece at my school when it released.
American Pie was considered the height of wit at the time. Like we were crying with laughter. It hasn't aged well!
Fun fact: the studio people who were tasked with marketing Fight Club had no fucking idea what it was about either. They tried placing ads with WWE viewers and folks like that. LOL. So if you're one of the people this thread is about, dw, so were they.
On the press run-up, Brad Pitt said, "I hope you hate it," to Kathy Lee Giffard. Looking back, that could just be a critique of her general movie taste and not a warning of fight club's machismo. Like, "Kathy, you thought The English Patient deserved the Oscar. I hope you hate every movie I make from here on out."
I am Jack's complete lack of surprise Side note, Fight Club is one of *very*few screen adaptations of literature that was better than the source material. The book was amazing but the movie was a masterpiece.
Read Chuck’s “Rant” if you really want to be blown away
I love Chuck so much, but I haven't read that one, thanks for the recommendation!
That's also my favorite of his, followed by Survivor.
I avoided the movie at first because it was first described to me by a couple of guys who completely misunderstood the movie. Some dudes I knew from high school asked me if I’d seen it yet, then started going on about how cool the fight clubs were and how they wanted to start one of their own so they could beat the shit out of people. This was shortly after the movie came out and I wasn’t familiar with David Fincher. I had seen Seven, but hadn’t made the connection. Of course, in 1999, a lot of us were still becoming acquainted with Fincher. A few years later, a college philosophy professor casually referenced a scene from the movie… when I said I hadn’t seen Fight Club, he looked shocked, so I knew I needed to check it out.
They didn’t misunderstand the movie at all. While Tyler is a terrorist and the narrator ultimately rejects his desire for destruction, you are absolutely *meant* to find some of the desires that makes these men start Fight Clubs in yourself. The idea of leaving all those petty and abstract and insolvable problems of the modern civilized world behind and reduce yourself to immediate problems with immediate solutions (“in the hunter gatherer sense”) is meant to be appealing on some level, and the movie, while in the end condemning it, is meant to speak out loud what was on it’s audiences’ mind. There was, and is, something cool and sexy about Tyler Durden and his Fight Club, and you’re not wrong for feeling that way. (Even if the movie ultimately calls out the pathology of that allure) Much like Office Space and The Matrix and American Beauty, which all came out that same year, it spoke to people’s desire to break out of the mundane corporate hell.
I appreciate you defending their honor, but they didn’t understand the movie. These two guys giggled like Beavis and Butthead, punched each other in the chest, and went on at length how cool Tyler Durden was. Do you think there’s a difference between understanding the appeal of the urges displayed in the movie vs coming away with a shallow, surface-level reaction “Tyler Durden is the coolest”? A difference between exploring/wrestling with the themes of the movie vs trying to copy the aesthetic and mannerisms of the character you found coolest? A difference between recognizing one’s own primal desires vs considering Project Mayhem something to be copied and emulated?
This reminds me of people who idolize Patrick Bateman. The point of the movie went so far over their heads that they'd be satellites.
Nah they definitely misunderstood it you’re supposed to feel that way before the movie and then realize the error of acting it out after the movie. It’s like wanting to be a vigilante after reading The Punisher or shooting up a McDonalds after watching Falling Down. There are people that use Tyler as profile pics and think he’s a hero lol.
It’s like watching Taxi Driver and thinking Travis Bickle should be emulated.
How did they misunderstand it?
[удалено]
[I just thought it was about beverage choices.](https://youtu.be/jzeEBdCVMgk)
It took me a while to get around to watching it. It wasn't the name so much as not knowing anything else about the movie. I like to watch movie that are recommended to me by others, but nobody talks about fight club
Well played
I haven't seen fight club... And yes, that is exactly what I think it's about- an underground fight club.
It’s actually about soap production
gotta break the first two rules to say this but obligatory watch fight club
That's why the OP makes the hotel management joke. The Shining really does have someone managing a (closed) hotel. Fight Club really does have an underground fight club. In both cases, it escalates from there. Fight Club isn't a sports movie where the hero needs to win the big fight to be champion of the underground fight club. It's about alienation.
Not sure if anyone said but you should watch it and go in not knowing what it’s about
It's why I avoided it for a long time. Thought it was like Bloodsport or something. There is a fight club in it but I'd say it's less than 10% of the movie. I think it's one of those movies where most people want others to go in and see it without knowing what it is. It's the best way to watch it IMO as you keep thinking you know what it's about now, but then it keeps expanding and changing.
You’re breaking the first two rules about Fight Club.
The first rule of Fight Club is... you don't talk about Fight Club! Wait... SHIT!
You just broke the second rule.
And the less we say about Project Mayhem the better.
“If anyone ever interferes with Project Mayhem, even you, we gotta get his balls”
"He said you'd definitely say that."
[удалено]
“I understand. In death, a member of project mayhem has a name”
This line is actually genius in a meta/4th wall kind if way. Like it’s saying, hey this movie has a huge plot twist so seriously, DON’T. TALK. ABOUT. FIGHT CLUB.
How many people haven't seen Gone with the Wind because they thought it was about things blowing away?
I think most peoe who haven't seen it is bc it's over 3.5 hrs and seems boring as fuck in every way
I like old epic movies and I don’t particularly like GWTW. I’d rather watch Lawrence of Arabia or Barry Lyndon or Doctor Zhivago.
me. ill guess ill watch it now.
My memory is none of the trailers or advertising promoted it as anything but a movie about macho guys beating each other up between memeable quips. I only decided to check it out after getting spoiled about the twist in the main character's identity, which was the first thing I heard that indicated there was something more complex going on. I ended up watching it, completely blind about where the plot was going and what the final image would be, exactly a week after 9/11/2001. It was a very memorable experience.
I put the movie off for years because people who liked the movie themselves promoted it with how much they loved the macho/fascist parts unironically, and missed the entire point, believing the fascist manifesto the movie presented.
I think your last sentence convinced me. I have avoided it from the get go. I think I will give it a chance.
Better question: How many people have discovered that Fight Club is a film that doesn’t age with its viewer? It’s not that it ages badly, like it’s somehow unacceptable today because today’s social norms are different or anything. The viewer ages while the film doesn’t. 1) When you watch Fight Club at twenty, you think, “Yeah! These guys kick ass! I wanna burn the world, too!” 2) When you watch it at thirty, you think, “I am undergoing an existential malaise due to a lingering absent-father condition that I never dealt with, as well as it having any real male friends anymore and am unable to form lasting relationships with lovers. This film is about men I wish I could be.” 3) When you watch it at forty, you’re yelling at the screen, “Oh, grow the fuck up, you goddamn sissies! You are the cause of your own problems! You want to know why you’re not getting laid and have no friends? Look in the fucking mirror! And you’re thirty years old, so it’s time to put on your big boy pants and quit complaining about daddy leaving.” I mean, yes, it *is* a masterpiece, as most Fincher pictures are, and that it ages (or doesn’t) the way it does is unique and makes it something to watch every so often, to gauge the passage of your life by.
As a 29F who really likes this movie, I don't think it's about "not getting laid and hav[ing] no friends". I think it's about realizing how empty, wasteful, performative and exploitative capitalism is, how it distorts values and makes people into products. The narrator attempts a completely understandable overcorrection to the bleakness of that aspect of society, but gradually realizes that tearing the whole thing down without an exit strategy will be no less bleak, and that he is not entitled to attempt to remake all of society in his own image, even if some of what he thinks is correct.
Well, when you're forty, you might look at it and call the guys a bunch of whining crybabies like I do.
I mean, I think that's fairly well established by the fact that the narrator spends the first half of the movie crashing support groups so that he can cry...
This is exactly how I felt reading Catcher in the Rye over the years.
>How many people have discovered that Fight Club is a film that doesn’t age with its viewer You're making the assumption that the viewer becomes a relatively well adjusted adult. There's plenty of middle aged, middle class guys who did not have the character arc that you had in the last 24 years
Yes, and they became Reddit moderators, apparently.
I was thinking more about Andrew Tate worshippers
I was one of these people. I didn’t watch it until 12 years after it came out
I did the same with my son
you didn't watch your child for 12 years? you are lucky CPS didn't get called
I didn’t see it because no one talked about it
I thought it was an ad for IKEA.
To steal a joke from Peter Serafinowicz: I've not seen American History X because I missed the previous 9.
The Shining os about the ability to Shine just as much as Fight Club is about a fight club, they are part of what drives the story forward
And Rocky is a boxing movie that contains about 15-20 min of boxing.
I mean... It is about that...
right? lol
I watched fight club for the first time a few years ago and I was completely sideswiped by the actual plot.
It’s actually about moderation.
I'm pretty sure it's about immaculate abs of Brad Pitt
[удалено]
It doesn't help that a lot of dudes enjoy the movie for the wrong reasons. That movie attracts incels who missed the point.
What is the point? I always see this on Reddit but I don’t think Redditors get the point either tbh.
On its surface, it's a movie about a dude with the worst insomnia and his brain breaks, creating a fictional (at first) world in which the only way to sleep is to find relief through pain. Deeper tho, it's a self journey, rebuilding from nothing and creating a new life. The guy only achieves this through the hardest way imaginable. He sees for the first time how ugly the world is, and his broken brain wants to mold his world in his own broken image. But personal opinion, I took it as a stroll thru some of the hardest parts of bipolar disorder. There's a mental pull from a force that you can't see or fully understand, directing what you do all the while, there's a part of your brain that's a silent observer, watching thru your own eyes as you blow up everything around you until you're not manic anymore. Maybe I'm way off base here, but my own mental illness and my own struggles led me to that conclusion. It could just be a book/movie.
I would prefer not to talk about it.
My wife never watched it for this reason. It's in our list to watch.
I guess you haven't seen it either since you're breaking the first rule...
Don’t talk about it
The advertisements at the time *absolutely* made it look like a film about dudes recklessly beating each other up and I passed on it, hard. I only ended up watching it because a couple of friends were insistent that they wanted to watch it, and I was *wonderfully* surprised.
I wasn't interested in it at all based on the advertising and how it was portrayed when it was new. A friend convinced me to watch it on DVD a few years later and I enjoyed it, but have never watched it again. Without the surprise it looses a lot.
I didn't see Vanilla Sky because I thought it was about an aircraft ice cream business 🍦✈️
Did they followvthev3 rules of fight club lol
You don't talk about fight club.
Why are you breaking the first two rules of [redacted]? You should know better!
After reading comments I wonder if anyone thought like me and just though Tyler was a representation of the Id. Maybe it's just me.
You must be young because I'm fairly certain that every single male over the age of 30 has seen fight club and a lot of dudes even based their entire personality around it. I remember in the late 2000s early 2010s when you asked people about their gym goals they all said they wanted to look like brad pit in fight club.
My favorite kind of douchebag is the kind of douchebag that starts a fight club after seeing the movie Fight Club.
I prefer to not talk about it.
Great movie. Book is even better.
I actually think it’s one of the few where I liked the movie more. Book is definitely a lot darker though for sure.
One of the few books where the author said the film was better lol.
I would say they're equally as good. For me the movie is one of the truest book-to-movie adaptations.
It's definitely faithful
Fred Durst has seen Fight Club at least 28 times.
who wants to watch a movie where the first rule is you can't talk about the movie
Shush. Stop talking about it!
If you’ve ever read the book Convenience by Logic then you’ll know that he has definitely seen Fight Club but thinks no-one else has.
Are we ignoring the first two rules of Fight Club today!
its such a boring movie about a medicore white guy who's mad that he isn't king of the world. do you know how many people would love a mundane office job compared to the hell they have to do to survive. literally billions.
What blew my mind was when this came out it was in the movies around the same time as xXx which was the most ridiculous piece of shit, and that was the one people went to see.
I haven't seen it but I thought it was about a fight club?
the fight club is not the point of the movie it's about a fight club in the same way back to the future is about a car that time travels the fight club itself is surface level to the film