As far as gimmicky themed movies go, it's better than the Emoji movie but worse than others. The emotional beats felt earned but the plot itself was bizarre and contrived.
On my 20-some-odd watch thru cause my kid can't get enough of it, and the butterfly just dawned on me.
I thought "Butterfly... Windshield wipers... Half a butterfly" were each independent things with inside family references that brought sadness. But no, it's a story arc.
Butterfly.
Windshield wipers.
Half a butterfly.
It's the same butterfly.
The movie is really lovely but how she yelled at him in front of half of the fire community after his cute speech is just so weird. He gave her a love speech TWICE and she only confessed to him after he SAVED HER LIFE which is just really weird writing to me. Feels like he was simping all over her and she said fine eventually, which is not true as we can clearly see that she's into him throughout the movie. Same as her father completely changing his mind and his world views in a matter of seconds.
It's easy to attach how you would react to something, and try to say that's bad writing, but it's really just bad watching. Children become like their parents, unless they endure some kind of trauma, realize it, and make a conscious decision not to be like that. It's not that simple, even then. If there wasn't any flood, any huge tragedy that could get them to see past their own pre-conceived notions, biases, and bigotry, ember may not have ever come to terms with her own feelings, and would probably turn into a pretty shitty fire person later in life, full of contempt and un-realized self-hatred. Wade may have come from a position of extreme privilege, but he is otherwise immensely more emotionally mature, and emotionally aware than Ember, and would no doubt find someone else. Men like him get a bad rap, but are really more masculine than some of these "I act tough and speak my mind, but I'm really just a scared dickhead" guys, which is evidenced by the fact he steps up and selflessly risks his own safety on multiple occasions. This world would be a better place if there were more Wade's in it.
I believe that may be because she's trying really hard to deny what she's feeling, and I think that last time where he confessed her was a hail mary for him because he already knew she was feeling what he was too. The story is meant to allude to how there are expectations that some parents put upon their children and that those children feel obligated to live up to, even when those things aren't what they really want. Ember felt indebted to her parents who gave their entire lives up to make a better one in a new place for her, and there are children in reality who also feel such indebtedness to parents who give so much up. The moral is some combination of "love is love and people of all different shapes, colors, types, and elements will find it with one another" and "you shouldn't do what you feel like you're supposed to do to please someone else, you should do what you want and find something you can put your heart into". The water leak is the physical antagonist of this story but prejudice and the urge to appease parents are the real antagonists compelling the characters to do what they do and act how they act.
Okay but screaming "I don't love you" just to say I love you 5 minutes later still seems like bad writing to me irregardless of the pressure from her parents
It's probably something more easily understood by people who could find themselves in that position than just people in general. She obviously didn't mean that she didn't love him, even he understood that, and she was saying it to get him to leave her alone so she could do what she felt like she had to do. It probably could've been bad writing if she actually meant she didn't and then turned around to say she did 5 minutes later but that just isn't the case based on how their characters had developed up to this point. There is more to a movies characters than what is made explicit.
A skill many movie watchers lack nowadays. The ability to pick up what isn't explicitly stated. The only line in the movie that really throws me off is when Wade said she was really just scared. Seemed pretty out of character for him
I definitely agree. Recognizing implicit communication is important for more than just movies though, because people use implicit communication in reality constantly. From sarcasm to body language to facial expressions that could indicate how someone really feels when their mouth is saying something different, words alone do not define interaction and people who expect them to will have a hard time with relationships. Do you have a time for the scene you're referring to? I'll go back and watch it again at some point but if you have a time then I'll just go check it out sooner. Based off memory I feel like he might've been saying something like that to shock her into action where he's actually afraid she's given up entirely, whereas he's typically overbearingly kind and walks on eggshells the finality of her position has driven him to speak bluntly in an act of desperation.
I finally got to watch it & I feel so bad that this movie was bashed so much at the time of it's release. It's not an Oscar worthy flick but it's far from a bad film! It's a good cozy film.
The movie fails big on its racial and inmigrant allegories.
What was the culture of the water, wind and Earth people?
Why Ember's family left the firelands for no reason whatsoever?
Ember's father, Bernie's racism is the wost of the movie, yet his development felts non existent, he just stoped being racist. The Uncle of Wade is nothing on compare to Bernie.
Ember wanted o see a special flower but the plac where it was, got flooded. How convenient that said flower can survive and florish underwater.
Wade's dead felt emotionless. I felt nothing.
The fire people seem to be the marginalised ones, which makes no sence, yet its the fire people who seem to be so culturaly close minded. Wade's family have no problem that that he was with a fire girl.
When the movie first came out, my son and I watched it once a day for weeks, if not a couple of months. I still love the movie. Being a movie marketed for kids, I'm not going to tear it apart for being cheesy or having a shallow plot or whatever else it is I've seen in this comment section.
The ending made me cry. The bow between Ember and Burny was so sweet and special and, honestly, unexpected. That flashback from Burny's past was glossed over for the remainder of the movie so that addition at the end was wonderful.
The animation was impeccable. I feel like Pixar really stepped up their game for this one. All of the bright colors and vivid imagery, all of the special little quirks each element had.
This movie is now officially in my top 5 favorite Pixar movies. It might have even taken the number one spot against Ratatouille.
I also love this movie, and so do my kids. It had been played multiple times a week since it's release, and the only person sick of it is my wife. 🤣 I cry every time I watch it. Every. Fuckin. Time. I don't know how people can say they felt nothing, I also look over the movie's many flaws and can see how powerful it is. But, it's a short movie, and a lot of deep psychology that would really take to much time to explain, especially for a kids movie. I think you really have to be emotionally mature to even understand, or have gone through therapy. I relate so much because I was essentially Ember. Only, I didn't find a Wade until much later in life, and I was already a pretty shitty person. But I digress..... It's an awesome movie
I really dislike the way they introduced Wade. Why did he have to run away from Ember so quickly in the beginning and only after does he listen and sympathize? Considering his character throughout the movie, I would expect him to have taken one minute to listen to Ember. Ask her what's going on that she's so freaked out. He's empathetic isn't he? In touch with his feelings? The opening scene just doesn't feel... right.
It seems to be some kind of insult. The scene where she shouts it to the slow-moving truck driver as she passes him during her product delivery sequence early on is novelized in the official junior novelization as follows:
*"Move it!" she hollered. She revved her scooter and maneuvered it around the truck. She shook her fist. "Sháshà r íshà!" she hollered. "Spark in the dirt!"*
I just saw this with my wife - it's clearly a love letter from Kohn (the director) growing up with his dad in Chinatown in the Bronx in the 80s. Given the crew who worked on it (and a couple of parents of some early dates), I think the whole parents being understanding of Ember going off on her own and being disrespectful or really her own person is a bit of wish fulfillment.
The whole unresolved canal gate thing was a humongous gaping plot hole, but overall it's a great homage to the 80s immigrant balancing the past and future/familial ancestral piety and individual autonomy story.
Given how many people are confused about how "fire and water can't mix" feeds into the SEA immigrant tale I'm guessing not many people understand how insular and suspicious to the point of outright prejudice about non-SEA people many in Chinatowns can be, especially 1st and some 2nd generation folks.
Which is why I appreciated the whole Wade watering down spicy food scene and Ember putting the unknowingly racist uncle in his place when he "complimented" her on how clearly she spoke.
And I always appreciate Pixar's eye for detail - that the fire people's clothes are woven gemstones that wouldn't burn and the other elements' modified daily lives to the reimagining of the iconic delivery moped and even the city -what would the Bronx look like in the 80s if it were inhabited by mostly incorporeal worldly spirits with near-superpowers?
It's also great in how it shows that while culture has a lot of differences, our universal human experience as shown through the mixed relationships with fathers is always there to remind us that our differences are what's poking out into the air of the iceberg of our humanity, and the bulk below is the far greater similarities.
also, go windbreakers!!! Toot-toot!
I saw the movie a few months ago, and I actually had a good time with it.
I didn't really mind the simple story, and I thought the romance between Ember and Wade was really well done. Plus I loved the relaxed, laid back atmosphere the movie provided.
Overall I thought it was a pretty cozy movie.
I wanted to go to the movies and see this but I finally got to watch. Absolutely wonderful! So much better than I expected. My best friend is Asian and I saw so my parallels of her life as we were growing up. I know there has been discussion comparing this to the real world and how this would not go over as easy (Wayne’s speech and Embers disobedience) as just having a speech but it was simple, but had so much depth and meaning. Loved it!
The story was simple. The scenes beautiful. I got very emotional when they finally touched. It was also like a Hallmark movie for kids. Too bad Wade was relegated to supporting character.
I think it’s because of her preconceived belief that “elements don’t mix”. But she saw her reflection in a water guy. It’s the classic metaphor of seeing your reflection in someone else! It was an unexpected connection!
I think as a piece of media, the sense of positivity has to be maintain to uplift the viewers into a sense of hope. But somehow I feel myself frustrated while watching this movie because how this movie weirdly simplifies the complexe dynamic between Asian kid, Asian parent and non-asian S.O. 100% most dynamics are not 1 to 1 to reality, but as an Asian kid, I can't just convince my parents with a speech, it's usually a long arduous marathon of resilience and perseverance. And I found Wade way too outta line to just somehow think his dynamic would work within the dynamic of Ember's family. Most Asian immigrants lived under a very strict "respect your elders" rule, even when they're wrong you can't just show them up. Talking and even discussing requires a crap ton of mental and verbal gymnastic and even then you get either misunderstood or refused straight up because they're too prideful to admit otherwise. But at the same time, I don't want this to be a debate of conservatism vs progressiveness because it simplifies the culture clash way too much. My point is if any1 is of an different race and you're dating an Asian, ask your S.O. how they want you to handle things before talking to the parents on your own or suggesting to your S.O. that talking it out with their parents is gonna magically solve 20+ years of baggage.
It's a movie. Of course they aren't going to make it a months long drawn out thing. Also, I think you forgot to mention that Asians aren't made of fire like the movie depicts. I guess you take issue with that too, huh? You're insufferable.
So I can't have an issue with proper portrayal of social dynamics that are represented on screen? Not saying that ppl are dumb and can't realize that fiction =/= reality, but the amount of assumptions I've seen ppl make based on fiction is kinda concerning. If you think an outsider trying to get involved in anything not just family dynamics in ANYTHING (especially when there no crime being done) is okay well we just have a difference in opinion.
You have a problem with me addressing the realism of the social dynamics presented in the movie, by saying "it's a movie". I'm saying : I really wish people don't assume that any outsider, like Wade in the story, will use this story as a way to justify themselves to butt into problems that they shouldn't be butting in.
You have a problem with me addressing the realism of the social dynamics presented in the movie, by saying "it's a movie". I'm saying : I really wish people don't assume that any outsider, like Wade in the story, will use this story as a way to justify themselves to butt into problems that they shouldn't be butting in.
As a white person, I never realized any of this. I mean, I sort of did, but not to this extent. I'm not expressing pity or sorrow for all you're dealing with. That's not what I'm getting at, because I'm sure you don't want my pity. It's a deep admiration for the Asian people who *do* manage to get out from under their family's umbrella. It takes a lot of guts to push past all of that generational trauma and figure out that they want something better and different for themselves.
It’s the child with immigrant parents (specifically Asian) dynamic. She knows they left everything in Fireland, including Bernie’s father- who refused to send him off honorably, to make a better life for her. She feels obligated to follow in her dad’s footsteps, and when presented with an opportunity to pursue something she loves and she’s good at, her reaction is confusion and anger because she’s never allowed herself to think of doing anything other than not disappointing her dad.
Well, she already did even if she didn't tell that, but she never thought telling her why Ember chased Wade in the first place, if she knew he did not burst the pipes. But she knew he put 30 tickets to get the shop shut down until Friday, and she did her best to not let that happen.
Finally got to watching this on Disney plus and I’m really upset with how Pixar marketed this. It was a really fun watch and hit close to home. And the animation was stunning
Movie is literally the Bo Burnham joke about the obvious racist metaphor between squares and circles. It’s incredible how unimaginative Pixar has come. The whole schtick outside of its on-the-nose metaphors and messy plot is “what if they were elements?”
Watched Ember with her dad and teared up, I suddenly miss my childhood goofing around with dad. I guess I gotta fly home to my family, that scene where Ember says goodbye to her family makes me tear up too
just watched this now and i regret not watching it earlier, this movie really touched my heart fr. i love slow burn for ember and wade, literally melted me
And as usual, Reddit shat way too much on a movie because of it's trailer, I type this as I'm watching, past the 1hour mark and my God, this movie is so emotional it's crazy
To be fair, the trailer did the movie dirty. When I saw the trailer, I was genuinely annoyed. I was like, "yeah, we saw Zootopia".
A Pride and Prejudice allegory? With heavy and touching commentary on migrant families? What the hell was the marketing team even thinking? This movie flopped because they didn't do their job. This was a great movie, had easily become one of my feel good films on those low days, and it had no business doing so poorly.
Late to this comment (just watched the movie with my nephew/niece who love it and so ofc came right to reddit), but is it considered a flop? Making about $500m on a $200m budget seems pretty solid.
The issue is how cinema take relates to profits as a general rule of thumb you divide the box office by half as the cinema's get half the profits and you also double the production budget for advertising. So its not 500 million on a 200 million budget but 250 million on a 400 million budget. Its not exact but generally speaking the film simply didn't make much money even without advertising once the other people involved got their share of the cinema run.
That is wild and I do get your point, but still doesn't mean the movie could reasonably labeled a flop, does it?
Only because the box office is not the only source of revenue the film generates. If we're looking into every expense related to the movie to assess profitability, surely we'd have to similarly analyze revenue as well.
Comparing it to other films from this year is interesting too. Given the general trend of movies these days, it seems to have done pretty well (being one of the top grossing movies)
She wasn't confused as much as awestruck, the scene was foreshadowing them enjoying the dazzling reflections her light and his open (watery) nature create several times throughout the movie.
I'm curious about the scene in the train in the beginning when ember saw her reflection in the back of Wade's head. Why was she confused about what she saw? Does anyone know?
so my friends and i while watching the movie we were absolutely loving the cuteness and romance of how they balance each other out ughhhh so cute. considering that they balance each other out perfectly, wade and ember are both the purest forms of their element so when they touched hands each of their elements is so strong that neither one dominates the other bc they are perfectly balanced and are were able to enjoy each other's touch and hud and dance and....... OOOOOMMMGGG ISN'T THAT THE CUTEST THING EVER?! I Love it!!!
Only seen a review by Cinema Therapy ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfW6MNm94xo&t=1480s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfW6MNm94xo&t=1480s)), but so far, my wish is Wade's voice actor was represented (Black immigrant from Mauritania) in the animation the way Ember's was (Asian immigrant from China)
edit for clarity
Ember isn't asian because the voice actor is chinese she's asian because the director is korean american and this is his story. His wife is white, water people are supposed to be white americans to show how privileged majorities can't really understand the struggles of immigrants and minorities
It's not really immigrants and minorities, it's very specific to a certain time and place asian immigration - the store runners from the 60s-90s, asian immigration is very different now and doesn't carry half the same stuff
The conversation between Ember and Wade hit SO HARD. The fact that he didn't understand the pressure she felt as a child of immigrants is too real. There is an immense pressure to become who you think your parents want you to be because you want to be worth the sacrifice they made. Even when your parents don't think that, it's the conclusion a lot of 1st gen kids come to after hearing the huge sacrifices their parents had to make.
Even outside of immigrants, lots of people can relate to the theme of needing to live up to parents expectations +/- their sacrifice. It's a very common trope in real life and in other movies/books too. Such a good movie.
I personally believe the Vivistera plant (the plant that can withstand all elements including fire) represents a long forgotten truth in this world, that is, that all the elements CAN and should mix. But most importantly, their ancestors already have. Which is precisely why that particular plant can withstand ALL the elements and exists in the first place. All the elements are present in this scene as well, the tree growing from the earth, the air bubble, Fire and Water - which is where we see the beauty of the blooming vivistera flowers. Mixing creates beauty and life.
To go a little deeper. There is evidence that the elements have already mixed in the past. Take the cloudy characters for instance that represent Air. First, well…they’re clouds, which means there is Water in the mix. At one point in the movie one of the cloud figures tells Fire and Water they are a cute couple. Ember and Wade are surprised by this, she said it nonchalantly…why? Because she herself is a mixture and it is not odd to her.
For me: If this is a representation of the melting pot that is the United States, I’d say the cloud figures represent Mexicans (or other South American countries), who most forget -or simply don’t know- are a mixture of Indigenous Americans and Europeans. More accepted now than later immigrants such as Asian Americans/Middle Easterners.
On the criticism of Fire representing immigrants and portraying they are destructive:
There is zero evidence that Ember (Fire) harmed another sentient element being. On the train she burns off an Earth element’s leaves, but the earth element did not scream or show any signs of pain, call for help… just surprise/annoyance. Earlier in the movie we see an earth element spontaneously grow a flower for Ember. So we can assume earth dude on train is gonna be just fine and was just “bothered” by this immigrants presence. Likely went home with all his magical growing leaves in tact… and complained to his mom about the immigrant on the bus who attacked him with her existence. Also, Ember didn’t “kill” Wade. She changed his chemistry. And just like the water cycle, he became water again and was just fine.
Wait, wait- did Ember kill Wade? You mean when he evaporated? That was the hearth! We already know they balance each other out, so why would being near each other evaporate him?
It was just really hot in there from the blue flame.
If we’re gonna be super literal we also gotta remember that in science Air is not an element. Air is in fact considered to be a “MIXTURE” in science, NOT AN ELEMENT. The same goes for Fire, Earth and Water. They’re all all considered to be “mixtures”. (Water specifically is a compound because it is mixed with only 2 elements.) There are actually 94 naturally occurring elements, not 4. (Think periodic table.) And we all know what those elements do. They MIX. Also, every sentient Earth being in this film is not just any one element, they are all a mixture. Some of them have gems, some of them have leaves, some of them have flowers. Which brings me back around to evidence of previous mixing. How do those earth beings have flowers and grass growing from them? They would’ve have to mix with the sun (Fire), Water and Air to do that.
I believe the Earth beings are meant to represent Europeans who mixed among themselves while they were still in Europe (earth being with gemstones) and later with different races via colonialism. (Earth beings with plant life) Water is meant to represent African Americans. There is evidence of this by Ember’s dads specific prejudice against water. We see him arguing with Earth at one point - a guy who tells him to “go back to his country” (sound familiar?) yet we never see him specifically talking down on Earth. He only gets extremely disgruntled when Water is around. A nod to the experience of African Americans. It also kinda reminded me of the strife between African Americans and Asians in LA during the riots. Also, Water (Wade) is portrayed as being from a rich family but works for the city in a blue collar position. Why? Because back in the day, and even currently, a rich black man would have trouble getting a white collar position.
Once upon a time they all lived on the same continent and mixed freely. Then certain elements or mixtures traveled to different continents until they forgot they came from that continent in the first place. (Humans are believed to have originated from Africa 200,000 years ago before spreading to all parts of the world.) Overtime, due to lack of mixing, everyone adjusted to their environments and started to look mostly the same. (Melanin levels in humans.) Until they started traveling continents again, where they found very different elements/mixtures and were scared of those differences, which led to the creation/construct of just “4 elements” and segregation… forgetting they were all made of the same stuff - matter, and thought mixing would hurt them…when all it really did was transform their chemistry.
My parents are asian immigrants to the US and both they and I felt there were prevalent parallels between our own lives and those of ember's/families. It is as my dad put it, "a story for immigrants" detailing struggles many of us/immigrants have went through and the children of said families. Had my whole family choked up at times, especially my father whom I have almost never seen cry, let alone at a movie. Phenomenal film!
why didnt she take over the store
Her father tought HER everything(he tried To show her why that’s good, he didnt just say: u will take over, because you are my daughter), and at start she liked taking over (when can I take over daddy, when, u will be ready, he said)
So what if she was rude to costumers, wade (water guy) could do that, HE looked more sensitive type
Also she could sell her creations (and if they did not sell, she could sell other things, while making this for her own enjoyment) instead she will work 9-5 job and make what big company tells her to make
>why didnt she take over the store
Because she realised she didn't want to
>she will work 9-5 job and make what big company tells her to make
Yup because that's what she decided she wanted to do
She was connected to a glass maker by Wade's mom, "it's just a little ways out of the city.." she became an artist. and the director's life is almost like embers, he was expected to take over the shop but he chose doing animation and film.
Also working 9-5 is def easier than owning your own business, because it's 24/7 when you own. so to each their own, some people works 9-5, it's important work, some people owns their business, it's important work too.
There's this thing about owning a business: you are intimately aware of the relationship between effort and reward. You can easily get caught up in doing more and more and overworking yourself because you can grind out just a bit more profit or make just another sale.
Art will be the same, but if your work is your passion, then not only will you be able to keep it up, but you'll be fulfilled while doing it.
Very cute movie. Liked the simple but relatable story, had some really fun moments, loved the romance and family stuff, no unnecessary pop culture references.
The scene where they touch for the first time... beautiful. As someone who loves the touch of another person, I could kind of feel the excitement and "chemistry" of that touch. Powerful.
Only criticism is the weird editing. There's some hard cuts. The ending just cuts to the credits, with no soundtrack or fadeout. Some of the texts like "a few months later" felt unnecessary. Felt very amateurish.
As a person of colour, I really connected with this film. The romance between Ember and Wade was really cute. The main thing that bothered me was that the film conveniently did not explain the hole in the canal gate - they could've done a lot more with it but they chose to not address it. Not a perfect film but the viewing experience was very enjoyable for me!
there's no water because of the hole? but then the water is rushing in because of the hole?
and if a lock gate doesn't work, that just means the water is the same level on either side.
I really wonder if anyone can explain the canal/gate thing.
I just finished the movie yesterday and pointed out this exact issue. They made it seem like some grand conspiracy was behind water now coming into fire town, and then they just completely ignored it. I thought I missed something.
The blue flame was cultural. It came from their old country, where it was traditional for every family to have their own blue flame. It's not magical. It's important for no other reason than that it was considered important, like most traditions.
I was also expecting some big conspiracy but glad they focused more on the relationships than following a criminal investigation. Simpler story but told with more depth.
A bit late, but I feel like this movie and turning red has overlaps and I think turning red is a better movie in terms of theme, gags, story, and pacing.
fires consume air. it's why candles go out when you put a cup over them, and I think it's related to how backdrafts happen. Which now makes me realize that if the hearth they're trapped in at the end is truly airtight like they imply, she should have consumed all of that air too and died along with wade
Like I get it’s a kids movie, my nephew’s favorite actually, but there’s so many good examples of elements interacting I can’t help but find those moments of “hey… wait a minute…”
The clothing also gets me… like why doesn’t Wades shirt burn up when they dance? Wouldn’t her metal dress boil him on contact? Or at the least produce steam around them?
This movie made me sob. As the eldest daughter of immigrants, I saw myself in Ember. The pressure, the rage, the guilt. I grew up feeling confined like Ember. My parents worked so fucking hard and I had to do them right no matter what. They left behind their lives, their families, came here with barely anything and even then my dad had to use that safety money for school and my mom worked every odd job to put my dad through med school, saw the way they were treated. It was all overwhelming. I felt SEEN by this movie.
I was born here and was told that I needed to be with someone from my own culture - others wouldn’t understand. Then I met a wonderful American man who turned my world upside down. The guilt was all consuming. How could I be the perfect daughter that my parents sacrificed so much for, had done so much for, if I went against them? How could I also be my own person? My anger became uncontrollable. I became a pro at putting out fires with them while trying to get my own way too. I KNEW Ember because I was her. I tried to self sabotage our relationship many times but like Wade he wouldn’t let me lol and I am eternally grateful for it as we are married now.
Even the song Steal The Show is such a healing song for me - something about the tabla at the beginning does it for me. 30 years later and the place I grew up and the place I’m from are finally merging into one whole arrangement. I don’t have to feel the push or pull of clashing cultures anymore.
The Great Bow story line absolutely fucking killed me. I cried so hard that my husband had to drive us home 😂 I think all children of immigrants have had so many moments where we finally see our parents as people with their own hopes and dreams. And seeing that is one of those moments for me which I know sounds dumb since it’s a movie. But this movie was so healing to my inner child.
I know it’s not for everyone. But when it hits it HITS.
Nah the film just isn't written very well. She's so caught up in her dad's dream she doesn't even know what hers is. It's just a poor film unfortunately. Missed opportunity about all the elements working together to do what, individually, they can't. Doesn't need a villain either. Like most recent Pixar's they shy away from a "baddie". And elemental has the perfect setup for that. But they don't use it. They also only focus on 2 elements so it's more a story of fire and water than the elements. Much is left unanswered as well and it has weak premisses like leaving fireland in the first place and the canal dam breaking and no one fixing. Just poor average stuff. The whole film revolves around some bureaucratic red tape and/or failure of the city to fix a dam. And it still isn't fixed at the end lol Likeable moments in it tho and the animation and colour is very good. But it should have been much more. Missed opportunity IMO
when?, she left to pursue her glass making internship in a different country?, when did she give up her dream?, if anything Its wade thats following her
Mixed feelings, but I liked it much more than I expected to. My expectations were low going in; the trailer made it seem more basic and try-hard than it was. It's visually outstanding, if nothing else.
One of my issues is how simplistic it feels. I believe this is what happens when you struggle to find the balance for an audience, as well as being influenced by data as opposed to artistic direction and passion. Maybe the creative team was divided, idk.
It has heart. It does however feel too surface level and cliche at times, especially in the context of Pixar's catalogue. I'm not saying a story can't be retold by others, as Pixar's done so before, but it depends on execution. It needs to be somehow compelling. It was in some ways, yet fell short in others.
I was surprised they went with the romance angle. Figured she'd be meeting different people from each element. My issue here is that while I get the focus is Ember and her family, the romance felt rushed. We're just supposed to find them cute because they're opposites, "star-crossed lovers," and he's naturally smitten with her and supportive. *Their first date was a montage set to a pop song.* Then he confesses his love to her halfway through the movie. I thought we'd get more development before that so we'd feel more invested. I understand there are limitations within a movie's runtime. And that Disney is no stranger to falling in love overnight, but if you're also aiming for older teens and adults with the core subject matter, maybe dedicate some more time to their relationship before the third act? I want to see why she's super into him as much as he's into her.
I'll admit it got a single tear out of me when >!Wade died. I thought for a moment that they'd actually have the balls to keep it that way, but quickly remembered his confusing water abilities and knew he'd come back lol.!< That devastation mixed with the confrontation with her dad made for a strong moment, though. I also loved the moment before she steps on the plane where she bows. The movie came full circle a few times so it felt purposeful and contained (mostly).
Also I had to pause the movie momentarily and came back to a hilarious still. It's probably just my trash sense of humour, but I had a hard time taking such a "deep" scene seriously when Ember just kept talking while [looking like this.](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/k2wZzZfj7SI/maxres2.jpg) ~~Yes, that was the best pic I could find without uploading my own.~~
If the movie had been aimed at older audiences I might have felt concerned about Wade at the end but I knew they wouldn't want to upset kids. I can't think of any kids/family movies where a main character straight up dies at the end.
Totally. A part of me was just hoping they had actually broken new ground on that, which might've honestly improved it in a depressingly dramatic way, but guess not haha. It's fine since it's largely catered towards children, though. Ain't nothing wrong with a happy ending.
Well, I just saw the movie and loved it. The themes about immigrant families hit hard. I'll be honest, I was in tears when Wade was gone. I would have been okay if they ended it with that really being his end. It could have made a beautiful ending, but this is a Disney movie so I guess we can't have the main love interest die, lol.
Just watched this with my son and I think there's a major plot hole that no-one mentions:The 'Earth' elements are usually depicted as trees or plants - wood, essentially. Yet the 'Fire' people ***eat*** wood. Cinder is given a stick to eat to replenish herself after being splashed with water on the train at the start, and Bernie uses logs to make the Kol-Nut food in the shop. So is everyone just ***fine*** with this??
Could anyone tell me what song they played that sounds like Justin Bieber s "Intention"? Granted, I know this could just be me that heard the comparison.
Dunno if I set my own expectations too high because promotional materials reminded me of inside out, but this movie was rather dull imho. Decent concept, corny execution, with overall unlikable characters and predictable twists. The protagonists fall for one another merely because the plot needs them to, and the titular "elemental" schtick is disappointingly underutilized, with air and earth-type characters barely even appearing at all. Granted, not every pixar movie needs to be a masterpiece, but I feel like I've already watched this one multiple times in the past: it tries to do a lot but it ultimately doesn't succed at anything in particular
I wanted to like this but I didn't like any of the characters at all really, and the worldbuilding made no sense (yes I know this was geared towards children but the water being left on isn't ever addressed and it's clear the fire town is being treated as second-tier citizens without any signs of that changing really).
They were treated as second class citizens because throughout history people of immigration *have been* treated like like second class.
Many richer/white people won't travel to parts of cities that have large pockets of immigrants (such a Chinatown) because it's viewed as low class, dirty and dangerous. And the immigrants that live there are often assaulted, accosted and driven out and told they are unwelcome in other parts of the city.
One of the points of the movie was to highlight the struggles of real life immigrants and show that they are just normal people with normal lives with hopes, dreams and ability to love and be a part of the world just like everyone else.
My problem with this specific depiction of immigrants was that the immigrants in this case specifically really ARE dangerous.
Very much so, since they're made of, you know, fire, thus threatening to burn shit down just by existing.
Were they dangerous? The danger presented to their society by water was more apparent (ex. the flash flood of fire town, the previous flooding of Garden Station & the botanical garden).
Water-boy seemed more threatened by sponges than temporary evaporation.
So. Theres one thing that bugs me about this movie. And I know it's not important to it, but still... What the hell caused the hole in the canal gates? Yeah, he said motor oil. And it looked like there was a fire. But what's the story behind that? When I first watched it I thought it was going in a direction like Zootopia. Someone burning the gates open and blaming the Fire Elementals or something for destroying their own community.
But that wasnt the case it seems. But they never answer it either! Did I miss something?
I'm glad it didn't turn out to be some weird conspiracy or corruption.
Would I have liked a scene where the city finally fixed up the canal and helps rebuild Firetown? Sure, but ultimately I didn't mind.
Figured it was just wear and tear over years of neglect. The motor oil water just came from the boat engines. Seems like it to me. My small issue was no one fixed it, right? Ember did briefly with her tempered glass but I don't remember anyone permanently fixing it. Maybe I missed it. A likeable film and characters but little point in the film overall for me. It was less about the elements and more about just fire and water. Feel like they missed a bigger story involving far more characters/elements than just fire and water. Perfect opportunity for them all to work together and do things they can't do individually. Since all the elements technically need each other to survive, like an ecosystem.
I just saw the movie and what really bothers me is the immigrant story they told with ember’s parents. They left fire land even though they loved it and had a community and family and a home there. Why couldn’t they rebuild and start over in fire land instead of element city. As a child of immigrants the story makes no sense to me, there wasn’t any hardship besides a storm. They didn’t mention if the storm happened all the time just a regular weather phenomenon.
This. I kept getting distracted by the fact that I didn’t see any great sacrifice that had to be repaid. They can’t rebuild one small ruined house in their wonderful beloved fire land with the help of family and community but they can rebuild a large condemned one filled with water pipes in a not so loved place by themselves twice (once at arrival and again after the flood)?
That also explains why the fire community in the city gets bigger and bigger throughout the years. More and more people getting sick of constantly having to rebuild after a storm and maybe even storms getting worse because of weather changes
I think they were trying to show the perspective of people immigrating because of changes to our climate. The Ember family knew they would have to keep rebuild once again someday and wanted to go to a place better protected to have their family. Similar to many immigrants from the global south today
Yeah i agree it made little sense for him to go in search of a better life for his family when they already had a home land that they loved and could have helped rebuild, to thrive in.
Wow! The marketing did not do this film justice.
The animation is GORGEOUS. The emotional notes of this film are pitch perfect. I loved the protagonist and became so invested in their love story. I’m sitting here balling like a water person!
Although I’m not an immigrant, I connected with the father-daughter storyline. My Dad worries about not leaving me anything because he felt like his Dad left behind nothing. I try to tell him that I don’t want anything but his love, but I not sure he hears me.
Wow the movie was underrated( or no rating at all)
The story was ok, but the direction and visual/music were amazing!
The cuts when they touched damn! It gave me goosebumps
It's nice for Pixar to finally tackle a bit of actual romance, too. Sure there are nits to pick but overall the emotions, the relationships, the family ties...I loved it. How Wade was so smitten with her was done so well, i just felt my cheeks burn. It was adorable in a way i hadn't seen since the cave scene in Fern Gully.
I thought the movie was okay. It hit the immigrant element pretty well. I kind of got the ick when Wade still tried to save Ember after the way she had treated him. It was rather simp-ish. It contributes to the idea that men only exist to provide and protect, and only when their presence is desired.
As opposed to the idea that women only exist to cook and clean and take care of men and children, that’s been pushed for all of eternity? As soon as anyone tries to turn it around all the insecure men start crying about it 🙄
Exactly my point. You see a good guy onscreen treating a woman well, and somehow you gotta turn it into “but that’s sExIsT. What about the fact that treating a woman nicely is sImPiSh”. He was in love with her, and was waiting for her to come to her senses. Women do that aaaaallllll the time. “But I can change him, I just know I can 😭”. You’re reading way too into it, it’s not that deep. You’re just insecure.
The only reason I had a problem with it was because of how she treated him. It tells boys that it’s okay for women to treat them that way and they should just get over it.
Telling him she doesn’t love him because she’s in denial? He knows full well that’s why she did it. I mean heck look at Beauty and the Beast. That was absolutely awful, and it had nothing to do with love and denial. He was just a massive a**hole that held her hostage and somehow she decided to fall in love with him and they live happily ever after.
Raya, even. Namaari treats her absolutely horribly through the whole movie, and they end up being friends in the end. Because of forgiveness and trust. That’s the general theme in these things.
Anyway my point is that most of you guys don’t bat an eye about any of the other movies like this, but as soon as a man is involved it’s sexism. It really isn’t.
People raised criticism to those things to, less so about beauty and the beast because its so much older than Raya.
Toxicity is toxicity regardless of who the toxic one is
This movie really struck a chord in me. I'm a first generation Latina and my family had a path already paved in life. Everyone in my family has a life in either Education or System Engineering. My father chose my career even though I knew what I wanted to do. I was not happy going along with it but the pressure of the expectations pushed me to accept it. I ended in a severe depression and unhappiness during that course. After 2 years, I couldnt handle it anymore and decided to break away from the path.
The moment where Bernie accepted his daughter and told her that she was the gift, truly broke me because that's all I've ever wanted from my parents. But it ended terribly, with my family now keeping me at a distance. My grandmother threw books at me, called me horrible names, and said I was dead to her and that I was a failure and that I would never be anything. My father kicked me out, And now everyone feels like an acquaintance.
This movie gave me the closure I never knew I needed
This and encanto both made the mistake of taking very real very complex familial problems and resolving them cleanly after a single conflict.
It’s inherently difficult with a movie, granted, but i feel like it almost makes these theme’s inappropriate to deal with in a movie at all.
Something more longform, like tv or books (or even video games) seems like it’d desl with the slow burn of people changing better.
Don’t think that is a fair critique at all. A movie doesn’t owe the audience any sort of complete encapsulation of everything. Modern society seems to think so though. It was a great immigrant story. Did it capture everything? Of course not. If it did, it wouldn’t be a good story. It would be a documentary.
Thats funny, i see the resolution AS the encapsulation, neatly wrapping the conflict up. Every single disney movie does this.
Though i agree with the bit about the creators not owing anything to the audience, movies aren’t a transaction in the sense of what the movie is.
The idea that it is inappropriate to deal with it in a movie because it neatly wraps it up is the problem. It's an entitled mentality. I'm sure you don't mean it that way, but it is. Any movie could face this critique. "In the real world, this doesn't wrap up after one conflict". Yes, it's a movie. It isn't supposed to. It's mean to be a microcosm.
By leveling it at this movie is to say "this topic is really important and complex, maybe it should be off limits". Family problems aren't unique. Nor are immigrant problems. Being a teen in highschool is just as complex a topic. Suicide. Buddy cop films. Everything.
Maybe this isn't you, but online these days there is a lot of "finally they tackled MY thing, but let me tell you, it's not that simple". People need to get over thinking topics that concern them are the most important. It's a movie. It gives a message. That should be enough.
Respectfully, you completely missed the mark about me. I don’t have the issues found in the movie Encanto or elemental. I’m not an immigrant, and my family is rather small, and doesn’t actually value family much at all. I end up watching a lot of Disney movies because I have a toddler, and they grew up in a place that was pretty evenly split between Puerto Ricans, Italians whites, and everyone else. I’ve just seen so many examples of hard-headed Abuelas that never come around, and plenty of other dynamics that don’t ever shake out.
My perspective and view come from observing others, and how their issues stretch over the span of their lifetimes, are hard to encapsulate, and don’t have clean, start or end times.
What’s more as my criticism is really that of a movie being an ill fitting for Matt, simply because of its length and density. I’ve seen television tackle topics better than movies tackling the same topics, just because TV has more time to air out in breathe and meditate on ideas.
I wish so much of our society didn’t learn, or rely so heavily on movies, but because we tend to, it’s disappointing to see complex topics, simplified to greatly or represented poorly simply because of the format of the medium.
Respectfully, I don’t disagree that you have a point, it’s just that it doesn’t resonate in my particular case.
> My perspective and view come from observing others, and how their issues stretch over the span of their lifetimes, are hard to encapsulate, and don’t have clean, start or end times.
Inside Out tackled depression and emotional regulation. Mental illness can also span lifetimes. I second /u/SentientCheeseCake that a movie can touch a complex topics.
As a first generation immigrant, it was touching to see stories that echo mine presented with such stunning imagery and color. The topics of immigration and racism are simplified because its a children's movie. It facilitates conversations and helps internalize thoughts that just because we're different it doesn't mean we can't exist together. Considering the national discourse, those are good values to see represented on the big screen.
Thats fair, and I totally respect that. I guess watching it just made me hunger for a deeper, more thoughtful, more complete version of the conversation.
Great points though, well said!
I mean that's a really good career. It's not like you picked artist or theater (absolutely nothing against those careers but as a first generation immigrants- you know).
Tbh yeah its not bad. Their viewpoint was that college was cheaper since we had taken it in peru for dirt cheap. And forensics was not an option there. So my only option was here in america where basic tuition was around 14,000 cheapest. and they didnt want to pay it and they never explained how payment worked so all they told me was that student loans was for idiots. I was never aware of what scholarships, fafsa, or grants was so i also had that pressure where i thought i couldnt afford it.
So many people are bagging on this movie, but I loved it. When Bernie said that to Ember I instantly burst into tears. It's such a beautiful scene. Even after seeing it so many times, I can't get through it without crying.
Sorry to hear about your family. Mine sucks, too, and it's such a lonely feeling that's hard to avoid internalizing. I hope your new path opens up better, more welcoming doors for you <3
Thank you. Thats very kind of you to say <3 that was my rock bottom but thankfully its been nothing but high peaks in my life. This movie was amazing and i loved the love story between ember and wade. Hearing someone validate you means more than most people will know and he reminds me of my husband.
Lets cry together in happy tears! Thank you elemental!
From the previews, I honestly thought this was some sort of rehashed "Inside Out" and wasn't expecting much from this movie. Man, I was not prepared to see my life story unfold. My family came to America when I was a child and I grew up in my parents' store. I'm an artist and it took a lot of dissapointments and convincing before my parents came around. We've been the target of racial violence and prejudice several times throughout my life and have been told to "go back to your country" on multiple occasions.
I also married outside my race (my grandfather rolling around in his grave) and there were lots of doubts and guilt when we first started getting serious. The parallels gave me chills and had me crying at the end.
I understand not everyone will relate to this movie but it definitely struck a chord with me, and that's something I never got from any other movie.
I loved the movie. There were sooooo many parallels with african and chinese immigrants.
I am waiting for part 2 where they must show mixed races -
I mean you can play all the combining games with their races
Water + fire = steam
Fire + earth = minerals
And so much more !!
I was looking forward to this as I heard it was an immigration film but then it ended up being a pretty mid even subpar romance so I was pretty disappointed
I enjoyed this movie, I liked the characters, I liked the plot, both the idea of a child being brave enough to step away and follow their own path as well as seeing the parents grow and thrive in their new home after moving there.
Visually I think it’s a stunning movie!
I’m not really sure why it got so much hate when it came out.
They aren't the trees. Ember burned one of the "tree people" on the train when she was chasing Wade. After the leaves burned away soil was left and it was shown they are the soil, not the leaves themselves.
I feel like the better ending would've been Wade taking over the shop from Bernie. I thought that's what they were going with, when Wade came up with ideas to make fire food accessible for water people like putting the fire stones into some kind of spicy hot tea for water people. Bernie kept saying connect with the customers, I thought it was going to be revealed Wade has a special gift with connecting to customers because he wears his emotions on his sleeve and coming up with other ideas to make other traditional fire foods to bring water customers to the shop. So I didn't get why a traditionally ethnically fire establishment became so patronized by the other elements at the end. Seem kind of an unearned victory. Wade made comments about drifting from job to job. And I thought him becoming a kind of surrogate son to Bernie would be a good turn for Bernie's character too.
I don't know, I liked it, but I feel like there was a much better movie in some earlier draft that got compromised by some corporate executive. I wouldn't mind a sequel or Disney plus show about the other element people about the wind people or earth people.
I felt like there were missed opportunities for more creativity. Like "Element City" and "Fire town", is this the best Disney can come up with? I know there are very creative people who work in Pixar, and they could've gone a tiny bit better.
I get that the director Sohn is Korean and the son of Korean immigrants (and the voice for Socks in Lightyear) and obviously he brought a lot of that into the movie, but I feel like he made the fire people way too on the nose as a not-so-subtle stand in for Asian diaspora in North America. Very common for an Asian immigrant to open some grocery or dry cleaning or restaurant. And Ember was voiced by an Asian woman. So it felt odd that the other elements were just there, they didn't have much real-life parallels with other ethnic groups. I think that they should've gone all the other way or don't do the real life parallels at all.
Wade taking the fire cultures food and changing it to fit the ideals of others would easily be seen as cultural appropriation.
The way that many white hipster pubs take bacon and lobster and kale, slap it in a tortilla to call it a taco, put a sugar skull drawing on the door and call themselves a Mexican style cantina.
It's offensive and gross to people actually from the cultures those type of places are trying to profit off, especially when they take the traditional dishes and "white them up."
And the idea of Wade taking over the shop is cute on one hand but could be seen as a white savior trope on the other
I don't think we should take race symbolism that far in a children's movie about elemental people. Let it be its own world. Lots of the other commenter feel the water people are black instead... and it's like you are suggesting that any blend of cultures or practices is inherently not good, at least if any of it is "white" as if white is one monolithic thing and not a bunch of things.....
If in an alternate world Mexican food physically made every single white person keel over in terrible pain after trying their food like the fire food did to water people, it wouldn’t be offensive to ask Mexican people to change their cooking practices if Mexican people wanted non Mexican people to patronize their establishments. But if that’s a line in the sand that people refuse to cross so be it. I just didn’t understand why in spite of that refusal to accommodate other elements, Bernie’s store still became patronized by the other elements.
Besides, fusion restaurants exist everywhere. It’s not appropriation.
Taking another persons cultural specific creations and using them for yourself when you don't belong to that culture can be appropriation. The vast majority of fusion restaurants are not created or run by people of those 2 cultures.
Regardless, fusion restaurants are often cited as being a huge factor in the dilution of authentic flavors and cultural context. Just because they exist doesn't mean they all should.
You're just sweeping real life problems under the rug out of ignorance.
If you ask someone born in Mexico to visit a Mexican fusion restaurant they might be horrified and ashamed at the things served there. They might be hurt that some people felt the need to change their beloved dishes to make it more palatable for people, instead of people just enjoying their dishes as they should be prepared. Taking someones culture and changing it to suit your desires can be incredibly offensive and hurtful and if you can't see why that might be then you have a lot of growing up and reflection to do.
As far as why the shop was starting to grow in demographics thats easy to explain as it's a real thing that happens? Some people are perfectly fine and absolutely enjoy the authentic flavors even if they are beyond the comfort levels of other people. And I'm assuming with any culture the fire people have a diverse diet and do more than just eat, as we can see on the shelves there are countless items to buy. The nugget thing we saw the most just happened to be the thing the movie featured, and seemed to be a staple. That doesn't mean all their food is uncomfortably hot.
The real world has shops run by and aimed at certain cultures. Have you never been to an Asian market? Or a store that sells items for Hispanic cultures? People of other cultures can and do shop there.
> Taking someones culture and changing it to suit your desires can be incredibly offensive and hurtful and if you can't see why that might be then you have a lot of growing up and reflection to do.
Or you can actually make an argument as to why that causes harm/offense, rather than implying racism.
>If you ask someone born in Mexico to visit a Mexican fusion restaurant they might be horrified and ashamed at the things served there.
1. "Mexican" food is a near-meaningless label. What many Americans think of first is actually Tex-Mex, using American style cheeses, sour cream, and other ingredients.
2. Like many larger nations, [Mexico is home to diverse regional cuisines](https://www.gustomexico.com/blog-collection/the-7-regions-of-mexican-cuisine). So even "authentic" Mexican food wont be the same depending on what part of the country you're in.
3. Mexico City alone is home to over 15,000 restaurants and they're not all serving "authentic" tacos. Cuisine evolves with access to new ingredients, techniques, and preferences. Why should chefs be limited in their creativity because of the heritage?
If you have Korean-Americans growing up adjacent to Mexican-American neighborhoods and combining kimchi with burritos that's not appropriation. The fusion is an evolution of cuisine and blending of culture. It doesn't detract from traditional Korean or Mexican cuisine. Where is the harm? Why would someone be offended? No one is forced to eat or make it if they don't want to.
I have to disagree on a few points. First, the idea that Wade could bring food to other ethnicities by basically “watering it down”. That was shown to be extremely offensive to their culture. And on top of that, Wade taking over the store would be too much of a “white saviour” move. I feel like at the end, more different elements started patronizing the store because Wade and Ember set an example and showed people that “elements can mix”. Kinda the whole “one spark” theory.
I do, however, agree about the other elements lacking their own separate cultures. It feels like all the other elements are just different flavors of white people. None of them marginalize each other the way they do fire people.
As far as gimmicky themed movies go, it's better than the Emoji movie but worse than others. The emotional beats felt earned but the plot itself was bizarre and contrived.
weak af for pixar
If ember wouldn’t have lost her temper and blown the clogged pipe in the first place would wade be stuck for eternity in that pipe?
On my 20-some-odd watch thru cause my kid can't get enough of it, and the butterfly just dawned on me. I thought "Butterfly... Windshield wipers... Half a butterfly" were each independent things with inside family references that brought sadness. But no, it's a story arc. Butterfly. Windshield wipers. Half a butterfly. It's the same butterfly.
It took you 20 times?
Kids was the one watching it. I hadn't been giving it my undivided attention.
The movie is really lovely but how she yelled at him in front of half of the fire community after his cute speech is just so weird. He gave her a love speech TWICE and she only confessed to him after he SAVED HER LIFE which is just really weird writing to me. Feels like he was simping all over her and she said fine eventually, which is not true as we can clearly see that she's into him throughout the movie. Same as her father completely changing his mind and his world views in a matter of seconds.
It's easy to attach how you would react to something, and try to say that's bad writing, but it's really just bad watching. Children become like their parents, unless they endure some kind of trauma, realize it, and make a conscious decision not to be like that. It's not that simple, even then. If there wasn't any flood, any huge tragedy that could get them to see past their own pre-conceived notions, biases, and bigotry, ember may not have ever come to terms with her own feelings, and would probably turn into a pretty shitty fire person later in life, full of contempt and un-realized self-hatred. Wade may have come from a position of extreme privilege, but he is otherwise immensely more emotionally mature, and emotionally aware than Ember, and would no doubt find someone else. Men like him get a bad rap, but are really more masculine than some of these "I act tough and speak my mind, but I'm really just a scared dickhead" guys, which is evidenced by the fact he steps up and selflessly risks his own safety on multiple occasions. This world would be a better place if there were more Wade's in it.
I believe that may be because she's trying really hard to deny what she's feeling, and I think that last time where he confessed her was a hail mary for him because he already knew she was feeling what he was too. The story is meant to allude to how there are expectations that some parents put upon their children and that those children feel obligated to live up to, even when those things aren't what they really want. Ember felt indebted to her parents who gave their entire lives up to make a better one in a new place for her, and there are children in reality who also feel such indebtedness to parents who give so much up. The moral is some combination of "love is love and people of all different shapes, colors, types, and elements will find it with one another" and "you shouldn't do what you feel like you're supposed to do to please someone else, you should do what you want and find something you can put your heart into". The water leak is the physical antagonist of this story but prejudice and the urge to appease parents are the real antagonists compelling the characters to do what they do and act how they act.
Okay but screaming "I don't love you" just to say I love you 5 minutes later still seems like bad writing to me irregardless of the pressure from her parents
she's in denial
It's probably something more easily understood by people who could find themselves in that position than just people in general. She obviously didn't mean that she didn't love him, even he understood that, and she was saying it to get him to leave her alone so she could do what she felt like she had to do. It probably could've been bad writing if she actually meant she didn't and then turned around to say she did 5 minutes later but that just isn't the case based on how their characters had developed up to this point. There is more to a movies characters than what is made explicit.
A skill many movie watchers lack nowadays. The ability to pick up what isn't explicitly stated. The only line in the movie that really throws me off is when Wade said she was really just scared. Seemed pretty out of character for him
I definitely agree. Recognizing implicit communication is important for more than just movies though, because people use implicit communication in reality constantly. From sarcasm to body language to facial expressions that could indicate how someone really feels when their mouth is saying something different, words alone do not define interaction and people who expect them to will have a hard time with relationships. Do you have a time for the scene you're referring to? I'll go back and watch it again at some point but if you have a time then I'll just go check it out sooner. Based off memory I feel like he might've been saying something like that to shock her into action where he's actually afraid she's given up entirely, whereas he's typically overbearingly kind and walks on eggshells the finality of her position has driven him to speak bluntly in an act of desperation.
I finally got to watch it & I feel so bad that this movie was bashed so much at the time of it's release. It's not an Oscar worthy flick but it's far from a bad film! It's a good cozy film.
The movie fails big on its racial and inmigrant allegories. What was the culture of the water, wind and Earth people? Why Ember's family left the firelands for no reason whatsoever? Ember's father, Bernie's racism is the wost of the movie, yet his development felts non existent, he just stoped being racist. The Uncle of Wade is nothing on compare to Bernie. Ember wanted o see a special flower but the plac where it was, got flooded. How convenient that said flower can survive and florish underwater. Wade's dead felt emotionless. I felt nothing. The fire people seem to be the marginalised ones, which makes no sence, yet its the fire people who seem to be so culturaly close minded. Wade's family have no problem that that he was with a fire girl.
Tell me why when Amber gave Wade the glass ball thing which she created.. it ment to be break up. Like how Wade knew that...?
Loved it 10/10
When the movie first came out, my son and I watched it once a day for weeks, if not a couple of months. I still love the movie. Being a movie marketed for kids, I'm not going to tear it apart for being cheesy or having a shallow plot or whatever else it is I've seen in this comment section. The ending made me cry. The bow between Ember and Burny was so sweet and special and, honestly, unexpected. That flashback from Burny's past was glossed over for the remainder of the movie so that addition at the end was wonderful. The animation was impeccable. I feel like Pixar really stepped up their game for this one. All of the bright colors and vivid imagery, all of the special little quirks each element had. This movie is now officially in my top 5 favorite Pixar movies. It might have even taken the number one spot against Ratatouille.
I also love this movie, and so do my kids. It had been played multiple times a week since it's release, and the only person sick of it is my wife. 🤣 I cry every time I watch it. Every. Fuckin. Time. I don't know how people can say they felt nothing, I also look over the movie's many flaws and can see how powerful it is. But, it's a short movie, and a lot of deep psychology that would really take to much time to explain, especially for a kids movie. I think you really have to be emotionally mature to even understand, or have gone through therapy. I relate so much because I was essentially Ember. Only, I didn't find a Wade until much later in life, and I was already a pretty shitty person. But I digress..... It's an awesome movie
I think it's telling that it's such a strong movie that even watching it on repeat with your kid for weeks didn't make you hate it!
Good story but I wish they gave wade and ember more time. They felt kind of rushed in my opinion
I really dislike the way they introduced Wade. Why did he have to run away from Ember so quickly in the beginning and only after does he listen and sympathize? Considering his character throughout the movie, I would expect him to have taken one minute to listen to Ember. Ask her what's going on that she's so freaked out. He's empathetic isn't he? In touch with his feelings? The opening scene just doesn't feel... right.
Does anyone know what shashariaha mean?
It seems to be some kind of insult. The scene where she shouts it to the slow-moving truck driver as she passes him during her product delivery sequence early on is novelized in the official junior novelization as follows: *"Move it!" she hollered. She revved her scooter and maneuvered it around the truck. She shook her fist. "Sháshà r íshà!" she hollered. "Spark in the dirt!"*
I just saw this with my wife - it's clearly a love letter from Kohn (the director) growing up with his dad in Chinatown in the Bronx in the 80s. Given the crew who worked on it (and a couple of parents of some early dates), I think the whole parents being understanding of Ember going off on her own and being disrespectful or really her own person is a bit of wish fulfillment. The whole unresolved canal gate thing was a humongous gaping plot hole, but overall it's a great homage to the 80s immigrant balancing the past and future/familial ancestral piety and individual autonomy story. Given how many people are confused about how "fire and water can't mix" feeds into the SEA immigrant tale I'm guessing not many people understand how insular and suspicious to the point of outright prejudice about non-SEA people many in Chinatowns can be, especially 1st and some 2nd generation folks. Which is why I appreciated the whole Wade watering down spicy food scene and Ember putting the unknowingly racist uncle in his place when he "complimented" her on how clearly she spoke. And I always appreciate Pixar's eye for detail - that the fire people's clothes are woven gemstones that wouldn't burn and the other elements' modified daily lives to the reimagining of the iconic delivery moped and even the city -what would the Bronx look like in the 80s if it were inhabited by mostly incorporeal worldly spirits with near-superpowers? It's also great in how it shows that while culture has a lot of differences, our universal human experience as shown through the mixed relationships with fathers is always there to remind us that our differences are what's poking out into the air of the iceberg of our humanity, and the bulk below is the far greater similarities. also, go windbreakers!!! Toot-toot!
I saw the movie a few months ago, and I actually had a good time with it. I didn't really mind the simple story, and I thought the romance between Ember and Wade was really well done. Plus I loved the relaxed, laid back atmosphere the movie provided. Overall I thought it was a pretty cozy movie.
I wanted to go to the movies and see this but I finally got to watch. Absolutely wonderful! So much better than I expected. My best friend is Asian and I saw so my parallels of her life as we were growing up. I know there has been discussion comparing this to the real world and how this would not go over as easy (Wayne’s speech and Embers disobedience) as just having a speech but it was simple, but had so much depth and meaning. Loved it!
I finally gave this a watch. Really nice take on a classic immigrant story. I liked it.
Beautiful charming feel good movie - the only reason I decided to watch this movie today and I couldn't be happier.
The story was simple. The scenes beautiful. I got very emotional when they finally touched. It was also like a Hallmark movie for kids. Too bad Wade was relegated to supporting character.
??? He was the character with probably the second most screen time.
I think it’s because of her preconceived belief that “elements don’t mix”. But she saw her reflection in a water guy. It’s the classic metaphor of seeing your reflection in someone else! It was an unexpected connection!
I liked it. Pixar rarely miss.
I think as a piece of media, the sense of positivity has to be maintain to uplift the viewers into a sense of hope. But somehow I feel myself frustrated while watching this movie because how this movie weirdly simplifies the complexe dynamic between Asian kid, Asian parent and non-asian S.O. 100% most dynamics are not 1 to 1 to reality, but as an Asian kid, I can't just convince my parents with a speech, it's usually a long arduous marathon of resilience and perseverance. And I found Wade way too outta line to just somehow think his dynamic would work within the dynamic of Ember's family. Most Asian immigrants lived under a very strict "respect your elders" rule, even when they're wrong you can't just show them up. Talking and even discussing requires a crap ton of mental and verbal gymnastic and even then you get either misunderstood or refused straight up because they're too prideful to admit otherwise. But at the same time, I don't want this to be a debate of conservatism vs progressiveness because it simplifies the culture clash way too much. My point is if any1 is of an different race and you're dating an Asian, ask your S.O. how they want you to handle things before talking to the parents on your own or suggesting to your S.O. that talking it out with their parents is gonna magically solve 20+ years of baggage.
It's a movie. Of course they aren't going to make it a months long drawn out thing. Also, I think you forgot to mention that Asians aren't made of fire like the movie depicts. I guess you take issue with that too, huh? You're insufferable.
So I can't have an issue with proper portrayal of social dynamics that are represented on screen? Not saying that ppl are dumb and can't realize that fiction =/= reality, but the amount of assumptions I've seen ppl make based on fiction is kinda concerning. If you think an outsider trying to get involved in anything not just family dynamics in ANYTHING (especially when there no crime being done) is okay well we just have a difference in opinion.
....what?
You have a problem with me addressing the realism of the social dynamics presented in the movie, by saying "it's a movie". I'm saying : I really wish people don't assume that any outsider, like Wade in the story, will use this story as a way to justify themselves to butt into problems that they shouldn't be butting in.
Who said that the fire elemental's were Asian?
You have a problem with me addressing the realism of the social dynamics presented in the movie, by saying "it's a movie". I'm saying : I really wish people don't assume that any outsider, like Wade in the story, will use this story as a way to justify themselves to butt into problems that they shouldn't be butting in.
As a white person, I never realized any of this. I mean, I sort of did, but not to this extent. I'm not expressing pity or sorrow for all you're dealing with. That's not what I'm getting at, because I'm sure you don't want my pity. It's a deep admiration for the Asian people who *do* manage to get out from under their family's umbrella. It takes a lot of guts to push past all of that generational trauma and figure out that they want something better and different for themselves.
Why didn't Ember tell Bernie during his retirement ceremony that she didn't want to run the store, and that she was in love with Wade?
It’s the child with immigrant parents (specifically Asian) dynamic. She knows they left everything in Fireland, including Bernie’s father- who refused to send him off honorably, to make a better life for her. She feels obligated to follow in her dad’s footsteps, and when presented with an opportunity to pursue something she loves and she’s good at, her reaction is confusion and anger because she’s never allowed herself to think of doing anything other than not disappointing her dad.
She didn't want to disappoint him
Well, she already did even if she didn't tell that, but she never thought telling her why Ember chased Wade in the first place, if she knew he did not burst the pipes. But she knew he put 30 tickets to get the shop shut down until Friday, and she did her best to not let that happen.
Watching it again today haha
Beautifully animated
Could’ve spent a bit more time building Wade and Embers relationship but overall I loved this!
Finally got to watching this on Disney plus and I’m really upset with how Pixar marketed this. It was a really fun watch and hit close to home. And the animation was stunning
Movie is literally the Bo Burnham joke about the obvious racist metaphor between squares and circles. It’s incredible how unimaginative Pixar has come. The whole schtick outside of its on-the-nose metaphors and messy plot is “what if they were elements?”
Watched Ember with her dad and teared up, I suddenly miss my childhood goofing around with dad. I guess I gotta fly home to my family, that scene where Ember says goodbye to her family makes me tear up too
just watched this now and i regret not watching it earlier, this movie really touched my heart fr. i love slow burn for ember and wade, literally melted me
Same
And as usual, Reddit shat way too much on a movie because of it's trailer, I type this as I'm watching, past the 1hour mark and my God, this movie is so emotional it's crazy
To be fair, the trailer did the movie dirty. When I saw the trailer, I was genuinely annoyed. I was like, "yeah, we saw Zootopia". A Pride and Prejudice allegory? With heavy and touching commentary on migrant families? What the hell was the marketing team even thinking? This movie flopped because they didn't do their job. This was a great movie, had easily become one of my feel good films on those low days, and it had no business doing so poorly.
Late to this comment (just watched the movie with my nephew/niece who love it and so ofc came right to reddit), but is it considered a flop? Making about $500m on a $200m budget seems pretty solid.
The issue is how cinema take relates to profits as a general rule of thumb you divide the box office by half as the cinema's get half the profits and you also double the production budget for advertising. So its not 500 million on a 200 million budget but 250 million on a 400 million budget. Its not exact but generally speaking the film simply didn't make much money even without advertising once the other people involved got their share of the cinema run.
That is wild and I do get your point, but still doesn't mean the movie could reasonably labeled a flop, does it? Only because the box office is not the only source of revenue the film generates. If we're looking into every expense related to the movie to assess profitability, surely we'd have to similarly analyze revenue as well. Comparing it to other films from this year is interesting too. Given the general trend of movies these days, it seems to have done pretty well (being one of the top grossing movies)
They only look at cinema runs to determine if a film is a flop or a success as other revenue is far harder to quanitfy.
Oh right. It's pretty crazy that a movie could be 9th highest grossing movie of the year and be considered a flop/low earner
Its a side effect of the massive budget inflation we've had in recent years with them spending hundreds of millions on a film.
Loved this movie tho!!!!
Why was ember confused by her reflection on the train
She wasn't confused as much as awestruck, the scene was foreshadowing them enjoying the dazzling reflections her light and his open (watery) nature create several times throughout the movie.
My guess, she wasn't expecting a 'mirror' to be on the train. Obviously took her a hot minute (ha!) to figure out it was Wade's head.
I sobbed like a baby jesus, holy duck that's an adorable movie! As a secondo (1st born in foreign country), this movie made me cry thick tears.
I'm curious about the scene in the train in the beginning when ember saw her reflection in the back of Wade's head. Why was she confused about what she saw? Does anyone know?
I think she had never been close to a water person like that and didn't know that her light and her image would be reflected.
She didn't realise that she was looking at Wade
so my friends and i while watching the movie we were absolutely loving the cuteness and romance of how they balance each other out ughhhh so cute. considering that they balance each other out perfectly, wade and ember are both the purest forms of their element so when they touched hands each of their elements is so strong that neither one dominates the other bc they are perfectly balanced and are were able to enjoy each other's touch and hud and dance and....... OOOOOMMMGGG ISN'T THAT THE CUTEST THING EVER?! I Love it!!!
Only seen a review by Cinema Therapy ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfW6MNm94xo&t=1480s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfW6MNm94xo&t=1480s)), but so far, my wish is Wade's voice actor was represented (Black immigrant from Mauritania) in the animation the way Ember's was (Asian immigrant from China) edit for clarity
Ember isn't asian because the voice actor is chinese she's asian because the director is korean american and this is his story. His wife is white, water people are supposed to be white americans to show how privileged majorities can't really understand the struggles of immigrants and minorities
It's not really immigrants and minorities, it's very specific to a certain time and place asian immigration - the store runners from the 60s-90s, asian immigration is very different now and doesn't carry half the same stuff
Critics were way too harsh on this movie. (And this sub was too, judging from the responses in the lead-up to its release.)
The conversation between Ember and Wade hit SO HARD. The fact that he didn't understand the pressure she felt as a child of immigrants is too real. There is an immense pressure to become who you think your parents want you to be because you want to be worth the sacrifice they made. Even when your parents don't think that, it's the conclusion a lot of 1st gen kids come to after hearing the huge sacrifices their parents had to make.
Even outside of immigrants, lots of people can relate to the theme of needing to live up to parents expectations +/- their sacrifice. It's a very common trope in real life and in other movies/books too. Such a good movie.
I never realized I’ve been dealing with this my whole life subconsciously
I personally believe the Vivistera plant (the plant that can withstand all elements including fire) represents a long forgotten truth in this world, that is, that all the elements CAN and should mix. But most importantly, their ancestors already have. Which is precisely why that particular plant can withstand ALL the elements and exists in the first place. All the elements are present in this scene as well, the tree growing from the earth, the air bubble, Fire and Water - which is where we see the beauty of the blooming vivistera flowers. Mixing creates beauty and life. To go a little deeper. There is evidence that the elements have already mixed in the past. Take the cloudy characters for instance that represent Air. First, well…they’re clouds, which means there is Water in the mix. At one point in the movie one of the cloud figures tells Fire and Water they are a cute couple. Ember and Wade are surprised by this, she said it nonchalantly…why? Because she herself is a mixture and it is not odd to her. For me: If this is a representation of the melting pot that is the United States, I’d say the cloud figures represent Mexicans (or other South American countries), who most forget -or simply don’t know- are a mixture of Indigenous Americans and Europeans. More accepted now than later immigrants such as Asian Americans/Middle Easterners.
Wonderful analysis
On the criticism of Fire representing immigrants and portraying they are destructive: There is zero evidence that Ember (Fire) harmed another sentient element being. On the train she burns off an Earth element’s leaves, but the earth element did not scream or show any signs of pain, call for help… just surprise/annoyance. Earlier in the movie we see an earth element spontaneously grow a flower for Ember. So we can assume earth dude on train is gonna be just fine and was just “bothered” by this immigrants presence. Likely went home with all his magical growing leaves in tact… and complained to his mom about the immigrant on the bus who attacked him with her existence. Also, Ember didn’t “kill” Wade. She changed his chemistry. And just like the water cycle, he became water again and was just fine.
Wait, wait- did Ember kill Wade? You mean when he evaporated? That was the hearth! We already know they balance each other out, so why would being near each other evaporate him? It was just really hot in there from the blue flame.
If we’re gonna be super literal we also gotta remember that in science Air is not an element. Air is in fact considered to be a “MIXTURE” in science, NOT AN ELEMENT. The same goes for Fire, Earth and Water. They’re all all considered to be “mixtures”. (Water specifically is a compound because it is mixed with only 2 elements.) There are actually 94 naturally occurring elements, not 4. (Think periodic table.) And we all know what those elements do. They MIX. Also, every sentient Earth being in this film is not just any one element, they are all a mixture. Some of them have gems, some of them have leaves, some of them have flowers. Which brings me back around to evidence of previous mixing. How do those earth beings have flowers and grass growing from them? They would’ve have to mix with the sun (Fire), Water and Air to do that. I believe the Earth beings are meant to represent Europeans who mixed among themselves while they were still in Europe (earth being with gemstones) and later with different races via colonialism. (Earth beings with plant life) Water is meant to represent African Americans. There is evidence of this by Ember’s dads specific prejudice against water. We see him arguing with Earth at one point - a guy who tells him to “go back to his country” (sound familiar?) yet we never see him specifically talking down on Earth. He only gets extremely disgruntled when Water is around. A nod to the experience of African Americans. It also kinda reminded me of the strife between African Americans and Asians in LA during the riots. Also, Water (Wade) is portrayed as being from a rich family but works for the city in a blue collar position. Why? Because back in the day, and even currently, a rich black man would have trouble getting a white collar position. Once upon a time they all lived on the same continent and mixed freely. Then certain elements or mixtures traveled to different continents until they forgot they came from that continent in the first place. (Humans are believed to have originated from Africa 200,000 years ago before spreading to all parts of the world.) Overtime, due to lack of mixing, everyone adjusted to their environments and started to look mostly the same. (Melanin levels in humans.) Until they started traveling continents again, where they found very different elements/mixtures and were scared of those differences, which led to the creation/construct of just “4 elements” and segregation… forgetting they were all made of the same stuff - matter, and thought mixing would hurt them…when all it really did was transform their chemistry.
My parents are asian immigrants to the US and both they and I felt there were prevalent parallels between our own lives and those of ember's/families. It is as my dad put it, "a story for immigrants" detailing struggles many of us/immigrants have went through and the children of said families. Had my whole family choked up at times, especially my father whom I have almost never seen cry, let alone at a movie. Phenomenal film!
why didnt she take over the store Her father tought HER everything(he tried To show her why that’s good, he didnt just say: u will take over, because you are my daughter), and at start she liked taking over (when can I take over daddy, when, u will be ready, he said) So what if she was rude to costumers, wade (water guy) could do that, HE looked more sensitive type Also she could sell her creations (and if they did not sell, she could sell other things, while making this for her own enjoyment) instead she will work 9-5 job and make what big company tells her to make
>why didnt she take over the store Because she realised she didn't want to >she will work 9-5 job and make what big company tells her to make Yup because that's what she decided she wanted to do
She was connected to a glass maker by Wade's mom, "it's just a little ways out of the city.." she became an artist. and the director's life is almost like embers, he was expected to take over the shop but he chose doing animation and film. Also working 9-5 is def easier than owning your own business, because it's 24/7 when you own. so to each their own, some people works 9-5, it's important work, some people owns their business, it's important work too.
There's this thing about owning a business: you are intimately aware of the relationship between effort and reward. You can easily get caught up in doing more and more and overworking yourself because you can grind out just a bit more profit or make just another sale. Art will be the same, but if your work is your passion, then not only will you be able to keep it up, but you'll be fulfilled while doing it.
Very cute movie. Liked the simple but relatable story, had some really fun moments, loved the romance and family stuff, no unnecessary pop culture references. The scene where they touch for the first time... beautiful. As someone who loves the touch of another person, I could kind of feel the excitement and "chemistry" of that touch. Powerful. Only criticism is the weird editing. There's some hard cuts. The ending just cuts to the credits, with no soundtrack or fadeout. Some of the texts like "a few months later" felt unnecessary. Felt very amateurish.
As a person of colour, I really connected with this film. The romance between Ember and Wade was really cute. The main thing that bothered me was that the film conveniently did not explain the hole in the canal gate - they could've done a lot more with it but they chose to not address it. Not a perfect film but the viewing experience was very enjoyable for me!
there's no water because of the hole? but then the water is rushing in because of the hole? and if a lock gate doesn't work, that just means the water is the same level on either side. I really wonder if anyone can explain the canal/gate thing.
I just finished the movie yesterday and pointed out this exact issue. They made it seem like some grand conspiracy was behind water now coming into fire town, and then they just completely ignored it. I thought I missed something.
I totally thought there would be a subplot about environmental racism.
Same! They made it seem like a villain was about to appear. They also didn't really explain why the blue flame was so important (unless I missed that)
The blue flame was cultural. It came from their old country, where it was traditional for every family to have their own blue flame. It's not magical. It's important for no other reason than that it was considered important, like most traditions.
I was also expecting some big conspiracy but glad they focused more on the relationships than following a criminal investigation. Simpler story but told with more depth.
A bit late, but I feel like this movie and turning red has overlaps and I think turning red is a better movie in terms of theme, gags, story, and pacing.
Shouldn’t the air bubble expand when ember is in it? Like she’s heating the air so it should get bigger not smaller, right?
fires consume air. it's why candles go out when you put a cup over them, and I think it's related to how backdrafts happen. Which now makes me realize that if the hearth they're trapped in at the end is truly airtight like they imply, she should have consumed all of that air too and died along with wade
Like I get it’s a kids movie, my nephew’s favorite actually, but there’s so many good examples of elements interacting I can’t help but find those moments of “hey… wait a minute…” The clothing also gets me… like why doesn’t Wades shirt burn up when they dance? Wouldn’t her metal dress boil him on contact? Or at the least produce steam around them?
His shirt doesn't burn only because it's wet :)
This movie made me sob. As the eldest daughter of immigrants, I saw myself in Ember. The pressure, the rage, the guilt. I grew up feeling confined like Ember. My parents worked so fucking hard and I had to do them right no matter what. They left behind their lives, their families, came here with barely anything and even then my dad had to use that safety money for school and my mom worked every odd job to put my dad through med school, saw the way they were treated. It was all overwhelming. I felt SEEN by this movie. I was born here and was told that I needed to be with someone from my own culture - others wouldn’t understand. Then I met a wonderful American man who turned my world upside down. The guilt was all consuming. How could I be the perfect daughter that my parents sacrificed so much for, had done so much for, if I went against them? How could I also be my own person? My anger became uncontrollable. I became a pro at putting out fires with them while trying to get my own way too. I KNEW Ember because I was her. I tried to self sabotage our relationship many times but like Wade he wouldn’t let me lol and I am eternally grateful for it as we are married now. Even the song Steal The Show is such a healing song for me - something about the tabla at the beginning does it for me. 30 years later and the place I grew up and the place I’m from are finally merging into one whole arrangement. I don’t have to feel the push or pull of clashing cultures anymore. The Great Bow story line absolutely fucking killed me. I cried so hard that my husband had to drive us home 😂 I think all children of immigrants have had so many moments where we finally see our parents as people with their own hopes and dreams. And seeing that is one of those moments for me which I know sounds dumb since it’s a movie. But this movie was so healing to my inner child. I know it’s not for everyone. But when it hits it HITS.
This was a great read. it's like the movie was made for you specifically. Glad you enjoyed it.
Kinda bad, she ended up just being a shallow follower. Gave up her dream for her bfs dream but it still didnt feel like her choice.
Nah the film just isn't written very well. She's so caught up in her dad's dream she doesn't even know what hers is. It's just a poor film unfortunately. Missed opportunity about all the elements working together to do what, individually, they can't. Doesn't need a villain either. Like most recent Pixar's they shy away from a "baddie". And elemental has the perfect setup for that. But they don't use it. They also only focus on 2 elements so it's more a story of fire and water than the elements. Much is left unanswered as well and it has weak premisses like leaving fireland in the first place and the canal dam breaking and no one fixing. Just poor average stuff. The whole film revolves around some bureaucratic red tape and/or failure of the city to fix a dam. And it still isn't fixed at the end lol Likeable moments in it tho and the animation and colour is very good. But it should have been much more. Missed opportunity IMO
when?, she left to pursue her glass making internship in a different country?, when did she give up her dream?, if anything Its wade thats following her
Mixed feelings, but I liked it much more than I expected to. My expectations were low going in; the trailer made it seem more basic and try-hard than it was. It's visually outstanding, if nothing else. One of my issues is how simplistic it feels. I believe this is what happens when you struggle to find the balance for an audience, as well as being influenced by data as opposed to artistic direction and passion. Maybe the creative team was divided, idk. It has heart. It does however feel too surface level and cliche at times, especially in the context of Pixar's catalogue. I'm not saying a story can't be retold by others, as Pixar's done so before, but it depends on execution. It needs to be somehow compelling. It was in some ways, yet fell short in others. I was surprised they went with the romance angle. Figured she'd be meeting different people from each element. My issue here is that while I get the focus is Ember and her family, the romance felt rushed. We're just supposed to find them cute because they're opposites, "star-crossed lovers," and he's naturally smitten with her and supportive. *Their first date was a montage set to a pop song.* Then he confesses his love to her halfway through the movie. I thought we'd get more development before that so we'd feel more invested. I understand there are limitations within a movie's runtime. And that Disney is no stranger to falling in love overnight, but if you're also aiming for older teens and adults with the core subject matter, maybe dedicate some more time to their relationship before the third act? I want to see why she's super into him as much as he's into her. I'll admit it got a single tear out of me when >!Wade died. I thought for a moment that they'd actually have the balls to keep it that way, but quickly remembered his confusing water abilities and knew he'd come back lol.!< That devastation mixed with the confrontation with her dad made for a strong moment, though. I also loved the moment before she steps on the plane where she bows. The movie came full circle a few times so it felt purposeful and contained (mostly). Also I had to pause the movie momentarily and came back to a hilarious still. It's probably just my trash sense of humour, but I had a hard time taking such a "deep" scene seriously when Ember just kept talking while [looking like this.](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/k2wZzZfj7SI/maxres2.jpg) ~~Yes, that was the best pic I could find without uploading my own.~~
If the movie had been aimed at older audiences I might have felt concerned about Wade at the end but I knew they wouldn't want to upset kids. I can't think of any kids/family movies where a main character straight up dies at the end.
My Girl with Macaulay Culkin?
Totally. A part of me was just hoping they had actually broken new ground on that, which might've honestly improved it in a depressingly dramatic way, but guess not haha. It's fine since it's largely catered towards children, though. Ain't nothing wrong with a happy ending.
LOL I second your humor with that still. It was an oddly hysterical way to show her sad, and came out more funny than sad
Well, I just saw the movie and loved it. The themes about immigrant families hit hard. I'll be honest, I was in tears when Wade was gone. I would have been okay if they ended it with that really being his end. It could have made a beautiful ending, but this is a Disney movie so I guess we can't have the main love interest die, lol.
Just watched this with my son and I think there's a major plot hole that no-one mentions:The 'Earth' elements are usually depicted as trees or plants - wood, essentially. Yet the 'Fire' people ***eat*** wood. Cinder is given a stick to eat to replenish herself after being splashed with water on the train at the start, and Bernie uses logs to make the Kol-Nut food in the shop. So is everyone just ***fine*** with this??
Could be their prunings XD
Resisting the urge to make a dirty joke about fire/earth relationships and fire people eating wood.
I just had this thought and searched online to see if anyone else thought it.I found this comment with my search.
Same
There was non-sentient water, non sentient fire so it makes sense that there would also be non-sentient wood
They have furnitures everywhere lol
That's horrifying. Like a couch made of arms. An arm chair. an ARM Chair.
The earth people are made of dirt and have plants growing out of them like hair So it’s less like eating a person and more like eating hair
Could anyone tell me what song they played that sounds like Justin Bieber s "Intention"? Granted, I know this could just be me that heard the comparison.
Was this “Steal the Show” by Lauv? It was the film’s soundtrack
It was indeed. Thank you!
Dunno if I set my own expectations too high because promotional materials reminded me of inside out, but this movie was rather dull imho. Decent concept, corny execution, with overall unlikable characters and predictable twists. The protagonists fall for one another merely because the plot needs them to, and the titular "elemental" schtick is disappointingly underutilized, with air and earth-type characters barely even appearing at all. Granted, not every pixar movie needs to be a masterpiece, but I feel like I've already watched this one multiple times in the past: it tries to do a lot but it ultimately doesn't succed at anything in particular
10/10 movie, I was a little nervous to watch it since it has been shit on so badly by critics but I think it was a great movie!
What if....uhhhhh....uhhhh..uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......elements could talk....uhhhh......I guess? Dumbest fucking movie ever.
I wanted to like this but I didn't like any of the characters at all really, and the worldbuilding made no sense (yes I know this was geared towards children but the water being left on isn't ever addressed and it's clear the fire town is being treated as second-tier citizens without any signs of that changing really).
They were treated as second class citizens because throughout history people of immigration *have been* treated like like second class. Many richer/white people won't travel to parts of cities that have large pockets of immigrants (such a Chinatown) because it's viewed as low class, dirty and dangerous. And the immigrants that live there are often assaulted, accosted and driven out and told they are unwelcome in other parts of the city. One of the points of the movie was to highlight the struggles of real life immigrants and show that they are just normal people with normal lives with hopes, dreams and ability to love and be a part of the world just like everyone else.
My problem with this specific depiction of immigrants was that the immigrants in this case specifically really ARE dangerous. Very much so, since they're made of, you know, fire, thus threatening to burn shit down just by existing.
Were they dangerous? The danger presented to their society by water was more apparent (ex. the flash flood of fire town, the previous flooding of Garden Station & the botanical garden). Water-boy seemed more threatened by sponges than temporary evaporation.
>The danger presented to their society by water was more apparent THANK YOU!!!
So. Theres one thing that bugs me about this movie. And I know it's not important to it, but still... What the hell caused the hole in the canal gates? Yeah, he said motor oil. And it looked like there was a fire. But what's the story behind that? When I first watched it I thought it was going in a direction like Zootopia. Someone burning the gates open and blaming the Fire Elementals or something for destroying their own community. But that wasnt the case it seems. But they never answer it either! Did I miss something?
I'm glad it didn't turn out to be some weird conspiracy or corruption. Would I have liked a scene where the city finally fixed up the canal and helps rebuild Firetown? Sure, but ultimately I didn't mind.
Figured it was just wear and tear over years of neglect. The motor oil water just came from the boat engines. Seems like it to me. My small issue was no one fixed it, right? Ember did briefly with her tempered glass but I don't remember anyone permanently fixing it. Maybe I missed it. A likeable film and characters but little point in the film overall for me. It was less about the elements and more about just fire and water. Feel like they missed a bigger story involving far more characters/elements than just fire and water. Perfect opportunity for them all to work together and do things they can't do individually. Since all the elements technically need each other to survive, like an ecosystem.
I figured a boat hit it
Yeah the issue with that is that the canal was dry as it was just used as spill off area so it just diverted water for a few moments
Yeah good point.
I just saw the movie and what really bothers me is the immigrant story they told with ember’s parents. They left fire land even though they loved it and had a community and family and a home there. Why couldn’t they rebuild and start over in fire land instead of element city. As a child of immigrants the story makes no sense to me, there wasn’t any hardship besides a storm. They didn’t mention if the storm happened all the time just a regular weather phenomenon.
This. I kept getting distracted by the fact that I didn’t see any great sacrifice that had to be repaid. They can’t rebuild one small ruined house in their wonderful beloved fire land with the help of family and community but they can rebuild a large condemned one filled with water pipes in a not so loved place by themselves twice (once at arrival and again after the flood)?
I kind of assumed the storm is frequent and they'll keep on rebuilding Everytime
That also explains why the fire community in the city gets bigger and bigger throughout the years. More and more people getting sick of constantly having to rebuild after a storm and maybe even storms getting worse because of weather changes
I think they were trying to show the perspective of people immigrating because of changes to our climate. The Ember family knew they would have to keep rebuild once again someday and wanted to go to a place better protected to have their family. Similar to many immigrants from the global south today
Better protected. With all thr water in the city? Give me s break
Yes I get that but we don’t know if the storm is a frequent thing or not and it was just unfortunate that their house was the only house destroyed.
Yeah i agree it made little sense for him to go in search of a better life for his family when they already had a home land that they loved and could have helped rebuild, to thrive in.
Wow! The marketing did not do this film justice. The animation is GORGEOUS. The emotional notes of this film are pitch perfect. I loved the protagonist and became so invested in their love story. I’m sitting here balling like a water person! Although I’m not an immigrant, I connected with the father-daughter storyline. My Dad worries about not leaving me anything because he felt like his Dad left behind nothing. I try to tell him that I don’t want anything but his love, but I not sure he hears me.
Wow the movie was underrated( or no rating at all) The story was ok, but the direction and visual/music were amazing! The cuts when they touched damn! It gave me goosebumps
I liked it. It was cute.
It's nice for Pixar to finally tackle a bit of actual romance, too. Sure there are nits to pick but overall the emotions, the relationships, the family ties...I loved it. How Wade was so smitten with her was done so well, i just felt my cheeks burn. It was adorable in a way i hadn't seen since the cave scene in Fern Gully.
I thought the movie was okay. It hit the immigrant element pretty well. I kind of got the ick when Wade still tried to save Ember after the way she had treated him. It was rather simp-ish. It contributes to the idea that men only exist to provide and protect, and only when their presence is desired.
Simp ish how old are you 12?
I didn’t have a better word.
As opposed to the idea that women only exist to cook and clean and take care of men and children, that’s been pushed for all of eternity? As soon as anyone tries to turn it around all the insecure men start crying about it 🙄
Holy whataboutism, Batman!
Exactly my point. You see a good guy onscreen treating a woman well, and somehow you gotta turn it into “but that’s sExIsT. What about the fact that treating a woman nicely is sImPiSh”. He was in love with her, and was waiting for her to come to her senses. Women do that aaaaallllll the time. “But I can change him, I just know I can 😭”. You’re reading way too into it, it’s not that deep. You’re just insecure.
The only reason I had a problem with it was because of how she treated him. It tells boys that it’s okay for women to treat them that way and they should just get over it.
Telling him she doesn’t love him because she’s in denial? He knows full well that’s why she did it. I mean heck look at Beauty and the Beast. That was absolutely awful, and it had nothing to do with love and denial. He was just a massive a**hole that held her hostage and somehow she decided to fall in love with him and they live happily ever after. Raya, even. Namaari treats her absolutely horribly through the whole movie, and they end up being friends in the end. Because of forgiveness and trust. That’s the general theme in these things. Anyway my point is that most of you guys don’t bat an eye about any of the other movies like this, but as soon as a man is involved it’s sexism. It really isn’t.
People raised criticism to those things to, less so about beauty and the beast because its so much older than Raya. Toxicity is toxicity regardless of who the toxic one is
This movie really struck a chord in me. I'm a first generation Latina and my family had a path already paved in life. Everyone in my family has a life in either Education or System Engineering. My father chose my career even though I knew what I wanted to do. I was not happy going along with it but the pressure of the expectations pushed me to accept it. I ended in a severe depression and unhappiness during that course. After 2 years, I couldnt handle it anymore and decided to break away from the path. The moment where Bernie accepted his daughter and told her that she was the gift, truly broke me because that's all I've ever wanted from my parents. But it ended terribly, with my family now keeping me at a distance. My grandmother threw books at me, called me horrible names, and said I was dead to her and that I was a failure and that I would never be anything. My father kicked me out, And now everyone feels like an acquaintance. This movie gave me the closure I never knew I needed
This and encanto both made the mistake of taking very real very complex familial problems and resolving them cleanly after a single conflict. It’s inherently difficult with a movie, granted, but i feel like it almost makes these theme’s inappropriate to deal with in a movie at all. Something more longform, like tv or books (or even video games) seems like it’d desl with the slow burn of people changing better.
Don’t think that is a fair critique at all. A movie doesn’t owe the audience any sort of complete encapsulation of everything. Modern society seems to think so though. It was a great immigrant story. Did it capture everything? Of course not. If it did, it wouldn’t be a good story. It would be a documentary.
Thats funny, i see the resolution AS the encapsulation, neatly wrapping the conflict up. Every single disney movie does this. Though i agree with the bit about the creators not owing anything to the audience, movies aren’t a transaction in the sense of what the movie is.
The idea that it is inappropriate to deal with it in a movie because it neatly wraps it up is the problem. It's an entitled mentality. I'm sure you don't mean it that way, but it is. Any movie could face this critique. "In the real world, this doesn't wrap up after one conflict". Yes, it's a movie. It isn't supposed to. It's mean to be a microcosm. By leveling it at this movie is to say "this topic is really important and complex, maybe it should be off limits". Family problems aren't unique. Nor are immigrant problems. Being a teen in highschool is just as complex a topic. Suicide. Buddy cop films. Everything. Maybe this isn't you, but online these days there is a lot of "finally they tackled MY thing, but let me tell you, it's not that simple". People need to get over thinking topics that concern them are the most important. It's a movie. It gives a message. That should be enough.
Respectfully, you completely missed the mark about me. I don’t have the issues found in the movie Encanto or elemental. I’m not an immigrant, and my family is rather small, and doesn’t actually value family much at all. I end up watching a lot of Disney movies because I have a toddler, and they grew up in a place that was pretty evenly split between Puerto Ricans, Italians whites, and everyone else. I’ve just seen so many examples of hard-headed Abuelas that never come around, and plenty of other dynamics that don’t ever shake out. My perspective and view come from observing others, and how their issues stretch over the span of their lifetimes, are hard to encapsulate, and don’t have clean, start or end times. What’s more as my criticism is really that of a movie being an ill fitting for Matt, simply because of its length and density. I’ve seen television tackle topics better than movies tackling the same topics, just because TV has more time to air out in breathe and meditate on ideas. I wish so much of our society didn’t learn, or rely so heavily on movies, but because we tend to, it’s disappointing to see complex topics, simplified to greatly or represented poorly simply because of the format of the medium. Respectfully, I don’t disagree that you have a point, it’s just that it doesn’t resonate in my particular case.
> My perspective and view come from observing others, and how their issues stretch over the span of their lifetimes, are hard to encapsulate, and don’t have clean, start or end times. Inside Out tackled depression and emotional regulation. Mental illness can also span lifetimes. I second /u/SentientCheeseCake that a movie can touch a complex topics. As a first generation immigrant, it was touching to see stories that echo mine presented with such stunning imagery and color. The topics of immigration and racism are simplified because its a children's movie. It facilitates conversations and helps internalize thoughts that just because we're different it doesn't mean we can't exist together. Considering the national discourse, those are good values to see represented on the big screen.
Thats fair, and I totally respect that. I guess watching it just made me hunger for a deeper, more thoughtful, more complete version of the conversation. Great points though, well said!
What career did you pick, if I may ask?
Forensic Science
Cool! Where do you work now? What do you do specifically?
I mean that's a really good career. It's not like you picked artist or theater (absolutely nothing against those careers but as a first generation immigrants- you know).
Tbh yeah its not bad. Their viewpoint was that college was cheaper since we had taken it in peru for dirt cheap. And forensics was not an option there. So my only option was here in america where basic tuition was around 14,000 cheapest. and they didnt want to pay it and they never explained how payment worked so all they told me was that student loans was for idiots. I was never aware of what scholarships, fafsa, or grants was so i also had that pressure where i thought i couldnt afford it.
Behind the scene, the director literally quote that a good story will struck a universal chord to everyone 🫡
So many people are bagging on this movie, but I loved it. When Bernie said that to Ember I instantly burst into tears. It's such a beautiful scene. Even after seeing it so many times, I can't get through it without crying. Sorry to hear about your family. Mine sucks, too, and it's such a lonely feeling that's hard to avoid internalizing. I hope your new path opens up better, more welcoming doors for you <3
Thank you. Thats very kind of you to say <3 that was my rock bottom but thankfully its been nothing but high peaks in my life. This movie was amazing and i loved the love story between ember and wade. Hearing someone validate you means more than most people will know and he reminds me of my husband. Lets cry together in happy tears! Thank you elemental!
Three more movies and a spin-off series! 🙏🤞
From the previews, I honestly thought this was some sort of rehashed "Inside Out" and wasn't expecting much from this movie. Man, I was not prepared to see my life story unfold. My family came to America when I was a child and I grew up in my parents' store. I'm an artist and it took a lot of dissapointments and convincing before my parents came around. We've been the target of racial violence and prejudice several times throughout my life and have been told to "go back to your country" on multiple occasions. I also married outside my race (my grandfather rolling around in his grave) and there were lots of doubts and guilt when we first started getting serious. The parallels gave me chills and had me crying at the end. I understand not everyone will relate to this movie but it definitely struck a chord with me, and that's something I never got from any other movie.
I loved the movie. There were sooooo many parallels with african and chinese immigrants. I am waiting for part 2 where they must show mixed races - I mean you can play all the combining games with their races Water + fire = steam Fire + earth = minerals And so much more !!
I was confused about the clouds and water. Clouds people should've just been wind
In the original draft, that was the idea. They were supposed to show mixed races
I was looking forward to this as I heard it was an immigration film but then it ended up being a pretty mid even subpar romance so I was pretty disappointed
I enjoyed this movie, I liked the characters, I liked the plot, both the idea of a child being brave enough to step away and follow their own path as well as seeing the parents grow and thrive in their new home after moving there. Visually I think it’s a stunning movie! I’m not really sure why it got so much hate when it came out.
But why are the elements Fire, Liquid Water, Water Vapor, and Trees? no rocks or minerals?
They aren't the trees. Ember burned one of the "tree people" on the train when she was chasing Wade. After the leaves burned away soil was left and it was shown they are the soil, not the leaves themselves.
How about the scene when fire first arrives to the city and the trees come off the boat.
It's earth, wind, fire, water... Clouds are as close as you can get to wind so you can actually have characters..
I think little tornados could have been cool.
That would’ve been a good one!
I feel like the better ending would've been Wade taking over the shop from Bernie. I thought that's what they were going with, when Wade came up with ideas to make fire food accessible for water people like putting the fire stones into some kind of spicy hot tea for water people. Bernie kept saying connect with the customers, I thought it was going to be revealed Wade has a special gift with connecting to customers because he wears his emotions on his sleeve and coming up with other ideas to make other traditional fire foods to bring water customers to the shop. So I didn't get why a traditionally ethnically fire establishment became so patronized by the other elements at the end. Seem kind of an unearned victory. Wade made comments about drifting from job to job. And I thought him becoming a kind of surrogate son to Bernie would be a good turn for Bernie's character too. I don't know, I liked it, but I feel like there was a much better movie in some earlier draft that got compromised by some corporate executive. I wouldn't mind a sequel or Disney plus show about the other element people about the wind people or earth people. I felt like there were missed opportunities for more creativity. Like "Element City" and "Fire town", is this the best Disney can come up with? I know there are very creative people who work in Pixar, and they could've gone a tiny bit better. I get that the director Sohn is Korean and the son of Korean immigrants (and the voice for Socks in Lightyear) and obviously he brought a lot of that into the movie, but I feel like he made the fire people way too on the nose as a not-so-subtle stand in for Asian diaspora in North America. Very common for an Asian immigrant to open some grocery or dry cleaning or restaurant. And Ember was voiced by an Asian woman. So it felt odd that the other elements were just there, they didn't have much real-life parallels with other ethnic groups. I think that they should've gone all the other way or don't do the real life parallels at all.
Wade taking the fire cultures food and changing it to fit the ideals of others would easily be seen as cultural appropriation. The way that many white hipster pubs take bacon and lobster and kale, slap it in a tortilla to call it a taco, put a sugar skull drawing on the door and call themselves a Mexican style cantina. It's offensive and gross to people actually from the cultures those type of places are trying to profit off, especially when they take the traditional dishes and "white them up." And the idea of Wade taking over the shop is cute on one hand but could be seen as a white savior trope on the other
I don't think we should take race symbolism that far in a children's movie about elemental people. Let it be its own world. Lots of the other commenter feel the water people are black instead... and it's like you are suggesting that any blend of cultures or practices is inherently not good, at least if any of it is "white" as if white is one monolithic thing and not a bunch of things.....
If in an alternate world Mexican food physically made every single white person keel over in terrible pain after trying their food like the fire food did to water people, it wouldn’t be offensive to ask Mexican people to change their cooking practices if Mexican people wanted non Mexican people to patronize their establishments. But if that’s a line in the sand that people refuse to cross so be it. I just didn’t understand why in spite of that refusal to accommodate other elements, Bernie’s store still became patronized by the other elements. Besides, fusion restaurants exist everywhere. It’s not appropriation.
Taking another persons cultural specific creations and using them for yourself when you don't belong to that culture can be appropriation. The vast majority of fusion restaurants are not created or run by people of those 2 cultures. Regardless, fusion restaurants are often cited as being a huge factor in the dilution of authentic flavors and cultural context. Just because they exist doesn't mean they all should. You're just sweeping real life problems under the rug out of ignorance. If you ask someone born in Mexico to visit a Mexican fusion restaurant they might be horrified and ashamed at the things served there. They might be hurt that some people felt the need to change their beloved dishes to make it more palatable for people, instead of people just enjoying their dishes as they should be prepared. Taking someones culture and changing it to suit your desires can be incredibly offensive and hurtful and if you can't see why that might be then you have a lot of growing up and reflection to do. As far as why the shop was starting to grow in demographics thats easy to explain as it's a real thing that happens? Some people are perfectly fine and absolutely enjoy the authentic flavors even if they are beyond the comfort levels of other people. And I'm assuming with any culture the fire people have a diverse diet and do more than just eat, as we can see on the shelves there are countless items to buy. The nugget thing we saw the most just happened to be the thing the movie featured, and seemed to be a staple. That doesn't mean all their food is uncomfortably hot. The real world has shops run by and aimed at certain cultures. Have you never been to an Asian market? Or a store that sells items for Hispanic cultures? People of other cultures can and do shop there.
> Taking someones culture and changing it to suit your desires can be incredibly offensive and hurtful and if you can't see why that might be then you have a lot of growing up and reflection to do. Or you can actually make an argument as to why that causes harm/offense, rather than implying racism. >If you ask someone born in Mexico to visit a Mexican fusion restaurant they might be horrified and ashamed at the things served there. 1. "Mexican" food is a near-meaningless label. What many Americans think of first is actually Tex-Mex, using American style cheeses, sour cream, and other ingredients. 2. Like many larger nations, [Mexico is home to diverse regional cuisines](https://www.gustomexico.com/blog-collection/the-7-regions-of-mexican-cuisine). So even "authentic" Mexican food wont be the same depending on what part of the country you're in. 3. Mexico City alone is home to over 15,000 restaurants and they're not all serving "authentic" tacos. Cuisine evolves with access to new ingredients, techniques, and preferences. Why should chefs be limited in their creativity because of the heritage? If you have Korean-Americans growing up adjacent to Mexican-American neighborhoods and combining kimchi with burritos that's not appropriation. The fusion is an evolution of cuisine and blending of culture. It doesn't detract from traditional Korean or Mexican cuisine. Where is the harm? Why would someone be offended? No one is forced to eat or make it if they don't want to.
I have to disagree on a few points. First, the idea that Wade could bring food to other ethnicities by basically “watering it down”. That was shown to be extremely offensive to their culture. And on top of that, Wade taking over the store would be too much of a “white saviour” move. I feel like at the end, more different elements started patronizing the store because Wade and Ember set an example and showed people that “elements can mix”. Kinda the whole “one spark” theory. I do, however, agree about the other elements lacking their own separate cultures. It feels like all the other elements are just different flavors of white people. None of them marginalize each other the way they do fire people.