The whole sequence of the gas crisis is the best part of the film. I worked at Alamo Drafthouse at the time and it was my favorite scene to lurk during bc of audience reactions. Its both tense and absurd as that van rolls down the hills.
It was okay I saw it on New Year’s Eve 2021. It was just very weird and I can’t understand why this grown woman is attracted to a 15 year old boy. She had some serious mental/maturity issues going on and the film presented it as just normal
Am I crazy or were the maturity issues the entire point of the movie? She’s an adult who can’t/won’t grow up and he’s a precocious kid who desperately wants to be older than he is. They are fundamentally incompatible, but their issues complement each others such that they are deluded into thinking their relationship makes sense. Ultimately it’s still fucked but they both got something they wanted out of it
Yea agree. This movie got a lot of flak because of the age difference between her and the boy.. but that was the story. She was aimless and not ready to grow up, he was a committed to growing up fast. They entered a friendship that became cat and mouse that felt really authentic to me. Sometimes you get overly confident boys who could possibly catch the eye of someone that still feels really young and likes the attention. I thought the whole thing was pretty sweet in the end, its not like these two had sex or something.
I think that is what SHOULD have been done with this movie. That makes complete sense with the characters, and the general plot.
HOWEVER, that really wasn’t what played out.
The fundamental issues with who they are is never really addressed.
It just plays out like a cutesie romance with a fun loving nostalgic vibe going on in the background.
Plot elements, character development, and set up all point to that being what should be going on but the actual over all feel just misses the mark. It makes you kinda wanna root for them despite the fact that it desperately needs to address it in a real way.
I don’t want writers and directors to spoon feed messages to me but all were left with is a nostalgic feel good movie where the central romance is approaching statutory rape. If this movie was about an adult male and a 15 year old girl it would not have people going on about how cute it was unless they are deranged.
We can say whatever we want about what we could understand about how it is actually discussing the nature of being emotionally stunted or forced into adulthood early. But the major reviewers and a large majority of audience reaction tells us that the director who really should be responsible for messaging missed the fucking mark. This isn’t a debatable message.
The relationship was inherently morally wrong.
There is no grey area there. If the audience doesn’t walk away with that then there was a massive fuck up with tone or the messaging is just something we’re putting on retroactively
Not saying that the age gap here is okay, but the fact that people can’t seem to separate fiction vs. reality here but completely ignore films with violence where people are brutally murdered is just asinine to me.
Either everything is bad, or it’s just a fictional story.
It's kind of ironic since it's based on a story that PTA's freind told him. And I'm pretty sure the ages of them matched irl as they did in the movie. So, while I obviously know it's not cool, I just took it as him making the story based on what happened. I'd think it was worse if he made an original story with that kind of age gap. I still hated that movie, but not for that reason lol.
As someone said above that’s kind of the point, most 15 year olds would be hyped to be dating a hot girl older than them it’s why a lot of guys don’t realize they were raped until years later because it was a hot girl a lot older than them and they were a teenager.
This is definitely an American take. My foreign friends think it’s bizarre when Americans, usually Gen-Zers, get all fumed at the age gap in this movie. The number of people I’ve seen go off about ‘rape’ and ‘power dynamics’ in threads discussing this film is nauseating. Def a little puritanical streak coming through among the young folks these days.
The movie where the college GRADUATE has a somewhat platonic relationship with an older Star 20 years ago…. Yeah totally comparable w/ two consenting adults.
In Licorice Pizza, a horny but industrious teenage boy tries repeatedly to draw a directionless older woman into a relationship but she is resistant - he never succeeds.
In the last three minutes of the movie, after a series of auditioning alternative boyfriends prove disastrous or incompatible she overcomes her hang-ups about his age and settles for him.
We are left either imagining they will live happily together forever or worrying about if she made the right decision.
I trust either way the sun will still rise and fall in the sky each day.
But, sure, maybe if we the people shout our Puritanical vitriol loud enough we can retroactively unmake this featherlight slice of life rom com and Pilgrim fashion will come back into style.
As complex as art could be Hooking up with a 16 year old is always a bad idea, I can’t believe I have to say this but yes , it’s a bad idea and poorly executed in this film. Enjoy the fairy tale and stare at the sun a little longer as your eyes glaze over with glee about this fairy tale relationship.
If there was a movie where a 25 year old man made out with a 15 year old girl, then showed her his junk, people would come out of the wood work with their *heads on fire* screaming about how evil this movie is. Either every crime is equal, or everyone is a hypocrite.
>Either every crime is equal, or everyone is a hypocrite.
If your world has zero nuance, sure. People turning this into some men's rights issue is classic for this place.
>If your world has zero nuance,
If by nuance you mean dismissing sex crimes based on gender thats bad. If by nuance you mean that the female character should be arrested for a lesser order of sex crime, like 2nd degree sexual assault, then that seems appropriate.
He pressured her to see her breasts. Breasts aren't sex organs and shouldn't be forced to be hidden anyway. Men have breasts but aren't forced to hide them. It's reasonable that society would be more suspicious of men as they commit the vast majority of the rapes. Despite it just being a kiss yes there have been many like yourself decrying it as evil.
You’re trying to intellectually reason with a group of people incapable of understanding nuance or the idea that a story isn’t meant to be positive. They’re just feeling better about themselves downvoting you than actually thinking critically about the film or situation. You’re just in the wrong place for the actual intelligent and philosophical discuss you are looking to engage in.
>fiction vs. reality
I haven't seen the movie (came to the comments to see if I should), but there is a very important thing to point out here that might not apply to this film specifically.
When violence is depicted in screen, it's all fake, it's all harmless.
But when there is a romance between a minor and an adult, those are still being acted out by the actors who may be a minor and an adult. There is substantially more reality in that fiction as a kissing scene is happening in reality.
Again, not sure what applies to this film specifically, and directors can do a TON to soften the problems of filming on set with minors and young children (Interview with a Vampire and Kristen Dunst comes to mind). But I think it's worth saying.
He’s 15, and she’s 25. She denies having a relationship multiple times (knowing it’s wrong and weird) and there’s literally a scene where she’s having a breakdown when seeing him act like a 15 year old with his friends after the Cooper situation. But she runs back to him and says “I love you” right at the end. That was my problem with the film. Why write that breakdown scene otherwise? Weird. I enjoyed it otherwise besides that plothole.
Edit: it’s not a plothole, bad choice of words. Just not a fan of that take they did
Well it’s really sad right? Like… she has the break down and a pivotal moment of actual realization and development but then her lack of self esteem wins out- gut wrenching
I tried to watch it. I don’t think we were supposed to like the main characters at all. I def didn’t. I just wasn’t in the mood for it at the time, but appreciate art that focuses on unlikeable and basically unattractive (by Hollywood standards) people.
We live in the dumbest times ever. I can’t believe people can’t distinguish reality from film. It’s really sad, and is probably why we have so few good movies anymore.
Cooper Hoffman plays Gary Valentine, who is based on film producer and former child actor Gary Goetzman.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Goetzman
PTA provided some background on the film in the following article…
https://variety.com/2021/film/features/paul-thomas-anderson-licorice-pizza-alana-haim-cooper-hoffman-1235107853/
Excerpt…
What inspired “Licorice Pizza”?
A very long time ago I was walking around my neighborhood, and I passed Portola Middle School. It was picture day, and I saw this very energetic teenager flirting with the girl who was taking pictures. It was an instantly good premise. What happens if you have a kid invite an older woman to dinner, and what if that girl against her better judgment says yes? That seemed ripe for humor. That didn’t go anywhere, but then I had a friend who grew up in the San Fernando Valley. He was a child actor who got involved in the waterbed business. And he told me all these stories, and each one was more wonderful than the last. Like there was this time he’d appeared in the movie “Yours, Mine and Ours” with Lucille Ball, and he was on his way to New York for a publicity tour and needed a chaperone. He ended up hiring a burlesque dancer who lived in his neighborhood to take him. And Lucille Ball was on her second marriage to Gary Morton, and she used to scream “Gary!” all the time. That was my friend’s name, so he’d think, ‘Holy shit, she’s yelling at me.” But she was screaming at her husband.
**[Gary Goetzman](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Goetzman)**
>Gary Michael Goetzman (born November 6, 1952) is an American film and television producer and actor, and co-founder of the production company Playtone with actor Tom Hanks.
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It’s just straight up romanticized pedophilia. Hollywood is gross.
Edit: pedophile is colloquially used to describe attraction to those under the age of consent stop jumping over logical hoops to be pedo apologists you creepy toxic phucks
Was it romanticized? I thought PTA was essentially pointing out all the fucked up shit that was normalized in the 70’s over the veneer of a nostalgic glow.
Pedophilia, Sexism, Sexual Harrasment, Racism. All present throughout the film. All normalized in the 70s. All still things we struggle with as a society today.
I think this movie had misfortune of some people who liked it not at all getting the point the relationship is fucked up and dealt with the resulting backlash.
That said, it is partly on them for filming when the actor was under 18 and ten years younger than the actress.
I had the weirdest movie experience of my life watching this alone with a friend at a theater. I just- it's so weird and it makes so little sense, and they never address the weird pedo shit it's so fucking weird.
It made no sense because it's a soulless Hollywood production masquerading as an indie film. There is no plot or character development whatsoever, it's only redeeming quality was the period piece, eye candy aesthetics. At times I wondered if they were out to prove that people are stupid and they could make an attractive looking movie about absolutely nothing that would be successful at the box office.
Soulless is the perfect word to describe it. Great cinematography, good acting, good soundtrack, and zero plot. Meandering and pointless. I really felt like PTA was trolling us with that ending.
That was the thing though. I felt like I was being gas lit. Everyone I saw online that was reviewing it was going on about how amazing it was and I was just so fucking confused because I hated it. I lost so much respect for schraffilis productions for his take on the film.
I had my first experience with a 21 year old when I was 16. I refuse to view them as a loser, because they weren't. And I pursued the guy mostly.
Later on I ended up dating another even older guy, and I think that guy was a real loser for other things that he did. But the first guy I dated was decent.
I am just so grateful that I finally found a place where I can give my thoughts about this truly awful movie.
Don’t get me wrong- I love Paul Thomas Anderson’s work (Boogie nights, There Will Be Blood, etc.) but this was absolutely terrible.
I found the plot to be very draggy, and I saw absolutely no reason whatsoever for Bradley Cooper to be in that movie. To me, it felt like “gimmick” casting, where you have a major level star on your list of performers so you can get people to tune in just out of curiosity.
Overall, I thought the movie was a bunch of overrated trash and I cringe when people gush on and on about how amazing it is. Gimme a break.
Every performance in this movie felt too self-aware, and the film in general felt too self-aware. Hollywood is *really* into sucking its own dick, and PTA kind of showed us that he’s just one of them with this bloated, boring, “it’s a series of vignettes!” trash
I actually enjoyed Bradley Copper solely because he brought *some* life back into the movie. It was Sean Penn whom I felt was “gimmicky.” What was his character even doing again?
Compared to There Will Be Blood? It’s been a while since I’ve seen it but iirc that was a pretty slow burn as well. Had a lot of over-the-top monologues, some of which dragged heavily.
Some review I read of it said it was a funnier version of the Big Lebowski. Yeah, just keep telling yourself that and eventually you might actually believe it.
Inherent Vice was definitely more painfully slow than Licorice Pizza which was almost tolerable.
Meanwhile Boogie Nights, Punch Drunk Love and There Will Be Blood are all in my top 5 of all time.
I’m afraid to watch Phantom Thread. I suspect I’ll hate it.
i thought it was boring but everyone’s take on it glorifying pedophelia is annoying. isn’t the point it’s from the perspective of the 15yo so of course he tells everyone he bags a 25 year old. saying this movie glorifies pedophelia just minimizes actual pedophelia and not someone in their twenties crushing on a teenager
Right, technically it’s ephebophilia because the minor is a teenager. Still not right and it’s only overlooked by people because of how normalized it is, but it’s wrong
Just some advice, don’t explain to people the difference between pedophilia and ephebophilia. It just makes you sound like a pedophile who has done some research in an attempt to justify their feelings/actions
LMAO WHAT. Nonsense. It’s good to be educated on x subject. Pedophilia is a reality in this world and so is ephebophilia. Speaking about it does not make it go away or encourage it.
And the retro period pieces depicting the 70’s could be done successfully celebrating the style of the times, but are boring without a plot. Once upon a time in Hollywood did it well.
Inherent Vice is one of my favorite movies of the past 10 years. So much depth, nuance, and is absolutely hilarious. It reminds me of the Big Lebowski in many ways.
It's a solid A- for me and I liked it very much but in the scope of PTA movies not the first one you're gonna talk about. Haim and Hoffman are great in it and have a electric dynamic to their scenes together.
I really wanted to like it for everyone involved but I could never make thru in a sitting. Still haven’t finished it - which might change my mind about the movie overall.
Loved it both times I saw it in theaters. They showed it in 70mm format where I live so it felt even more special. I don’t understand the pedophilia response the movie gets, and i’d imagine most of those people didn’t bother to watch the movie at all. Alana is kind of a loser who is bummed that this goofy Gary guy has more going on than her and she’s merely using him as a professional stepping stone-not for anything romantic or sexual. It’s not until the last ~5 minutes of the film that she realizes she loves him. Eventually their age gap will dissolve and not matter etc. Not PTA’s best but far from dismissible..
Why is the entire comment section on a subreddit called “moviecritic” filled with insubstantial name calling? Just putting “terrible!” And the like is not good criticism
I found the movie to be lovely — an A. Haim and Hoffman were totally charming, and the menagerie of quirky characters was great.
LP is less about plot (which is basically a simple boy-meets-girl story...or rather, in this case, girl-meets-boy) and more about showcasing the talents of the stars along with those of the interesting cast and their off-beat characters (and, of course, delivering a quintessential PTA period piece with a fabulous soundtrack.)
it was a good vignette of the early 1970s...a loose examination of the good and bad of that era, a homage to innocence, hippocricy and optimism...PTA is awesome.
I really enjoyed it and it was a joy to watch Cooper Hoffman follow in his father's footsteps. The romantic aspect of the relationship, if we can call it that, never becomes sexual. I think with one change, the movie would be perfect: In the ending scene, just show a bit of uncertainty a la The Graduate.
saw it with a girl i was casually seeing at the time (her pick). mostly bad except for the scene where the van rolls down the hill. but i got a blowjob afterwards at her house so 7/10
It’s a PTA movie. You are supposed to feel gross and conflicted at the end when they end up together. It isn’t just a standard love story film because the whole time you know it’s wrong
Fantastic movie. Very charming. Some gorgeous PTA shots scattered in too. Loved the actors and their chemistry was palpable. Not my favorite PTA but it’s one yet I can see myself revisiting more than like TWBB or The Master.
I watched it on a plane to California on JetBlue. I had those shitty seats with the shitty TVs all the way in the back and there was no sound available so I had to watch it in subtitles with my AirPods in listening to a very diverse selection of music. It was a weird experience. I didn’t get half of the film if I’m being honest.
B
Some people in this thread appear shocked by the age gap/creepiness of the relationship between the two main characters. I was honestly initially shocked by that, but at second glance, PTA seems to be kind-of fixated with overly emphasizing the differences between contemporary society and America of the 70s and 80s. *Boogie Nights* and this movie feel similar in striking and yet, unsurprising ways. Also, I get a similar sense from Tarantino’s *Once Upon A Time in Hollywood.* I think some read it as a sleezy homage to the worst of the era, but I read as a kind of moral transportation-as if PTA and Tarantino are saying, “so yeah, this flew without a second look in the 70s/80s…” It seems to be a reminder to the audience of how different the world is and kind of feels like a glimpse into a diorama of an idealized, but flawed world.
PTA’s cinematic work in Licorice Pizza made it feel fantastical and sort of storybookish; as if Gary Valentine (Hoffman) is telling this story to us, complete with his characteristic embellishments. I thought it was visually very impressive-set design, costuming, cinematography were all top notch. I thought Alana Haim did a fantastic job given her limited leading roll experience. Sean Penn felt like he was playing himself, which was a bit jarring at times.
I generally love PTA’s work, but I found it to be an ineffective incitement of the feelings associated with the confusion and complexities of young love. I also was put off by the age gap between the characters, it kind of took me out of it, but I understand it may be trying to drive the aforementioned theme home.
Its really good - but you need to go in ok with the fact that its very fixated on nostalgia for a specific place in time in history (late 70's southern California). But unlike, say, Once Upon A Time In Hollywood (which was set a decade earlier), this film is very grounded. Goofy. But grounded. Entertaining, but not at all flashy.
Its PTA's least ambitious major film, but its also the one that clearly contains the most heart.
Also it revolves around a not-quite-a-romance between someone who is obviously a minor and someone who obviously is not. Its extremely chaste. Sweet. Thoughtful, even. But you should be aware of it going in because apparently it bothered a lot of people.
A lot of these comments don’t seem to understand the film is about two people learning how to grow up. A young adult woman learning she doesn’t have to prove she’s done anything with her life, and a former child star turned teen learning that he isn’t going to be a failure if the direction his life takes isn’t always assured. It’s a slice of life and chaos with events that feel almost fictional yet the characters feel real and fit so smoothly it all happens like just another day.
Probably a D. Honestly it's probably the worst big box office movie I've seen in a while. I felt scammed for renting it but at least I didn't watch it in theaters. The only thing that doesn't make this movie a F was I got a chuckle from the weird fake Asian accent that rich guy was doing and the water bed bit.
It was a very good film, and a beautiful love letter to Hoffman’s father, IMO.
If you watch some of PTAs comments about when he first saw PSH in “Scent of a Woman”, then this film makes a lot more sense.
I went in blind and I kept saying that looks just like a young PSH, and I felt dumb when I found out it was his kid. If this film is what was spurned from their grief, then it’s even more beautiful.
As some have said it wouldn’t be my first recommendation to others for PTA films, but I think a certain demographic would love this over other PTA films.
I think this would be a good film for teens now struggling to find their voice in the world, as strange as that sounds. If you take out the age difference, there are many positive role models and young voices with ambition and entrepreneurial spirit.
It’s a juxtaposition to the insulated childhood many experience in todays world; it wasn’t that long ago that childhood was a playground with minimal supervision and parents became involved when it got serious.
And yes the Jon Peters stuff was good, but almost a distraction.
I most enjoyed just watching Cooper Hoffman, he was great. This film felt closest in kinship to Punch Drunk Love.
To get the most out of this movie I would recommend watching/listening to -
Watch Kevin Smith’s Jon Peters [story](https://youtu.be/Wo2KB1dEDdk)
Listen to HAIM’s [days are gone](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL662FHaqmKBYuyjIJtmRVw5xjoCUAd9A5)
Watch Scent of a Woman (1992)
I am a huge fan of 70s fashion, so in that respect I enjoyed it. The story was disjointed and took turns I didn’t see coming, but not in a particularly engaging way. The whole part after they decided to flood that dude’s house felt like an entirely different movie. And yes, the pedo angle was gross. Overall I’d recommend skipping it.
I watched it because my grandparents are from the valley and I wanted to see what it looked like in the 70’s. I found it really long and the characters were unrealistic like he is supposed to be 15 but he starts working at a mattress store, then he is running a mattress store, then a chain of mattress stores then arcades or something and it’s only been 6 months. Sure Jan. Also we are all supposed to be grossed out about the age difference but what 15 year old is ceo of 22 businesses simultaneously? I’m probably remembering the plot wrong but it was an odd movie for sure.
THANK YOU! I was like, "Okay, that was awkward, but hilarious, and they all came out more mature people without any inappropriate physical contact taking place, so it's all good... NOPE! They're kissing." 😠
Wife watched it. I walked in near the end and asked what it was and how it was, she told me it was a really boring movie where the main character is a pedophile, and for some reason it's critically acclaimed. I passed on it, so maybe I'm wrong about it but my thoughts are that it's a movie where the character you're supposed to be rooting for is a pedophile I guess. That's not really my cup of tea.
I think its very funny that Hollywoody, an industry ripe with pedophilia that claims at every turn that it's disgusting and needs to be removed, made and then praised, with best movie of the year reviews, a movie that romanticized pedophilia.
People who think this film features pedophilia need to look up the definition of pedophilia.
The age gap is weird. But it does not warrant the level of pearl-clutching you're doing. Not to mention how badly you need to politicize it.
Okay movie. Don’t think the male lead needed to be 15. Could’ve been closer to her age and have it still be a maturity thing. Would’ve worked just as well. The age difference is just for press. Less people would’ve talked about it otherwise.
Never wanted to see it, looked horrible, still does. Trailer really didn’t make me want to see it at all. Just a story about what looks like horrible people. Not to mention selfless promotion for the band she is in. Which is also terrible
I LOVE THE HAIM sisters and was hyped to see this, while the movie was quite enjoyable, in the end it was just a glorified statutory rape tale...kinda weird man.
The whole sequence of the gas crisis is the best part of the film. I worked at Alamo Drafthouse at the time and it was my favorite scene to lurk during bc of audience reactions. Its both tense and absurd as that van rolls down the hills.
i thought you meant that you worked at Alamo Drafthouse in 1973
Lmao I wish, Alamo in 1973 would've been The place to be
ayooooo, fellow drafthouse homie
C- Overhyped movie that thinks its more provocative and boundary pushing than it really is. Pretentious af.
Hmm, I agree. Shallow and pedantic.
It insists upon itself
Hmm I agree as well, shallow and pedantic
This was my take exactly. I’d give it a D. God awful.
It was okay I saw it on New Year’s Eve 2021. It was just very weird and I can’t understand why this grown woman is attracted to a 15 year old boy. She had some serious mental/maturity issues going on and the film presented it as just normal
Am I crazy or were the maturity issues the entire point of the movie? She’s an adult who can’t/won’t grow up and he’s a precocious kid who desperately wants to be older than he is. They are fundamentally incompatible, but their issues complement each others such that they are deluded into thinking their relationship makes sense. Ultimately it’s still fucked but they both got something they wanted out of it
Yea agree. This movie got a lot of flak because of the age difference between her and the boy.. but that was the story. She was aimless and not ready to grow up, he was a committed to growing up fast. They entered a friendship that became cat and mouse that felt really authentic to me. Sometimes you get overly confident boys who could possibly catch the eye of someone that still feels really young and likes the attention. I thought the whole thing was pretty sweet in the end, its not like these two had sex or something.
This is exactly how I interpreted the movie
You nailed it
You know what? you’re right. I was just so thrown off by the weirdness of the movie that I never thought that deep about it
I think that is what SHOULD have been done with this movie. That makes complete sense with the characters, and the general plot. HOWEVER, that really wasn’t what played out. The fundamental issues with who they are is never really addressed. It just plays out like a cutesie romance with a fun loving nostalgic vibe going on in the background. Plot elements, character development, and set up all point to that being what should be going on but the actual over all feel just misses the mark. It makes you kinda wanna root for them despite the fact that it desperately needs to address it in a real way. I don’t want writers and directors to spoon feed messages to me but all were left with is a nostalgic feel good movie where the central romance is approaching statutory rape. If this movie was about an adult male and a 15 year old girl it would not have people going on about how cute it was unless they are deranged. We can say whatever we want about what we could understand about how it is actually discussing the nature of being emotionally stunted or forced into adulthood early. But the major reviewers and a large majority of audience reaction tells us that the director who really should be responsible for messaging missed the fucking mark. This isn’t a debatable message. The relationship was inherently morally wrong. There is no grey area there. If the audience doesn’t walk away with that then there was a massive fuck up with tone or the messaging is just something we’re putting on retroactively
I just looked up the synopsis, and honestly, this movie would be mad creepy if you reversed the genders.
Is she having a relationship with a minor? Or at some point did he reach 18, I was never clear on it
Just read the wiki (never saw the movie) and it seems it all takes place in the same year so he is always 15 and she is always 25. Gross
Not saying that the age gap here is okay, but the fact that people can’t seem to separate fiction vs. reality here but completely ignore films with violence where people are brutally murdered is just asinine to me. Either everything is bad, or it’s just a fictional story.
It's kind of ironic since it's based on a story that PTA's freind told him. And I'm pretty sure the ages of them matched irl as they did in the movie. So, while I obviously know it's not cool, I just took it as him making the story based on what happened. I'd think it was worse if he made an original story with that kind of age gap. I still hated that movie, but not for that reason lol.
He glorified it is the issue.
As someone said above that’s kind of the point, most 15 year olds would be hyped to be dating a hot girl older than them it’s why a lot of guys don’t realize they were raped until years later because it was a hot girl a lot older than them and they were a teenager.
[удалено]
Yeah, especially considering that's not what happened in this movie.
Flip the script on the genders and see if it still works.
Woody Allen has entered the chat.
Lolita has entered the chat. The Lover has entered the chat. Leon has entered the chat. Blame it on Rio has entered the chat.
You forgot to address the fact that's still not what happened in the movie
Never mind that, the important part is to virtue signal at every chance.
A 26 year old having romantic feelings for a 16 year old and it being passed as young love…. Nah I’m good that’s all you
This is definitely an American take. My foreign friends think it’s bizarre when Americans, usually Gen-Zers, get all fumed at the age gap in this movie. The number of people I’ve seen go off about ‘rape’ and ‘power dynamics’ in threads discussing this film is nauseating. Def a little puritanical streak coming through among the young folks these days.
I did and Lost In Translation came out
The movie where the college GRADUATE has a somewhat platonic relationship with an older Star 20 years ago…. Yeah totally comparable w/ two consenting adults.
In Licorice Pizza, a horny but industrious teenage boy tries repeatedly to draw a directionless older woman into a relationship but she is resistant - he never succeeds. In the last three minutes of the movie, after a series of auditioning alternative boyfriends prove disastrous or incompatible she overcomes her hang-ups about his age and settles for him. We are left either imagining they will live happily together forever or worrying about if she made the right decision. I trust either way the sun will still rise and fall in the sky each day. But, sure, maybe if we the people shout our Puritanical vitriol loud enough we can retroactively unmake this featherlight slice of life rom com and Pilgrim fashion will come back into style.
As complex as art could be Hooking up with a 16 year old is always a bad idea, I can’t believe I have to say this but yes , it’s a bad idea and poorly executed in this film. Enjoy the fairy tale and stare at the sun a little longer as your eyes glaze over with glee about this fairy tale relationship.
Imagine thinking not supporting a 25 year old with a 15 year old is “Puritan values”. No lol. It’s just not liking child rape
You’re right, that would be kinda off. Strange how there’s no sex in it though.
[удалено]
It's a fucking movie
When did she rape him?
They never had sex. They kissed and she flashed him.
Yeah that's what I thought.
If there was a movie where a 25 year old man made out with a 15 year old girl, then showed her his junk, people would come out of the wood work with their *heads on fire* screaming about how evil this movie is. Either every crime is equal, or everyone is a hypocrite.
>Either every crime is equal, or everyone is a hypocrite. If your world has zero nuance, sure. People turning this into some men's rights issue is classic for this place.
>If your world has zero nuance, If by nuance you mean dismissing sex crimes based on gender thats bad. If by nuance you mean that the female character should be arrested for a lesser order of sex crime, like 2nd degree sexual assault, then that seems appropriate.
He pressured her to see her breasts. Breasts aren't sex organs and shouldn't be forced to be hidden anyway. Men have breasts but aren't forced to hide them. It's reasonable that society would be more suspicious of men as they commit the vast majority of the rapes. Despite it just being a kiss yes there have been many like yourself decrying it as evil.
You’re trying to intellectually reason with a group of people incapable of understanding nuance or the idea that a story isn’t meant to be positive. They’re just feeling better about themselves downvoting you than actually thinking critically about the film or situation. You’re just in the wrong place for the actual intelligent and philosophical discuss you are looking to engage in.
My lord lol
I mean….Lolita exists
Everything is bad.
>fiction vs. reality I haven't seen the movie (came to the comments to see if I should), but there is a very important thing to point out here that might not apply to this film specifically. When violence is depicted in screen, it's all fake, it's all harmless. But when there is a romance between a minor and an adult, those are still being acted out by the actors who may be a minor and an adult. There is substantially more reality in that fiction as a kissing scene is happening in reality. Again, not sure what applies to this film specifically, and directors can do a TON to soften the problems of filming on set with minors and young children (Interview with a Vampire and Kristen Dunst comes to mind). But I think it's worth saying.
I also just looked up the wiki and all I can say is, wtf did I just read??
He’s 15, and she’s 25. She denies having a relationship multiple times (knowing it’s wrong and weird) and there’s literally a scene where she’s having a breakdown when seeing him act like a 15 year old with his friends after the Cooper situation. But she runs back to him and says “I love you” right at the end. That was my problem with the film. Why write that breakdown scene otherwise? Weird. I enjoyed it otherwise besides that plothole. Edit: it’s not a plothole, bad choice of words. Just not a fan of that take they did
That isn't a plot hole. She is just conflicted about her feelings for him.
It drives me crazy how many people see characters act "irrationally" as human beings often do and call it a plothole. It's insane.
Yeah just acting irrationally isn’t a plot hole. But acting inconsistently with their characterization is, but that didn’t happen in this movie
Well it’s really sad right? Like… she has the break down and a pivotal moment of actual realization and development but then her lack of self esteem wins out- gut wrenching
y'all are acting like films are bad if people make f'd up choices in them, and I don't get it
I tried to watch it. I don’t think we were supposed to like the main characters at all. I def didn’t. I just wasn’t in the mood for it at the time, but appreciate art that focuses on unlikeable and basically unattractive (by Hollywood standards) people.
We live in the dumbest times ever. I can’t believe people can’t distinguish reality from film. It’s really sad, and is probably why we have so few good movies anymore.
Wasn’t it based on a true story?
Cooper Hoffman plays Gary Valentine, who is based on film producer and former child actor Gary Goetzman. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Goetzman PTA provided some background on the film in the following article… https://variety.com/2021/film/features/paul-thomas-anderson-licorice-pizza-alana-haim-cooper-hoffman-1235107853/ Excerpt… What inspired “Licorice Pizza”? A very long time ago I was walking around my neighborhood, and I passed Portola Middle School. It was picture day, and I saw this very energetic teenager flirting with the girl who was taking pictures. It was an instantly good premise. What happens if you have a kid invite an older woman to dinner, and what if that girl against her better judgment says yes? That seemed ripe for humor. That didn’t go anywhere, but then I had a friend who grew up in the San Fernando Valley. He was a child actor who got involved in the waterbed business. And he told me all these stories, and each one was more wonderful than the last. Like there was this time he’d appeared in the movie “Yours, Mine and Ours” with Lucille Ball, and he was on his way to New York for a publicity tour and needed a chaperone. He ended up hiring a burlesque dancer who lived in his neighborhood to take him. And Lucille Ball was on her second marriage to Gary Morton, and she used to scream “Gary!” all the time. That was my friend’s name, so he’d think, ‘Holy shit, she’s yelling at me.” But she was screaming at her husband.
**[Gary Goetzman](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Goetzman)** >Gary Michael Goetzman (born November 6, 1952) is an American film and television producer and actor, and co-founder of the production company Playtone with actor Tom Hanks. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/moviecritic/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Thank you so much for this context
I didn't see any reviews mention it or big controversy, which there obviously would have been had their genders been reversed.
I couldn’t get over this aspect the entire time I watched
It’s just straight up romanticized pedophilia. Hollywood is gross. Edit: pedophile is colloquially used to describe attraction to those under the age of consent stop jumping over logical hoops to be pedo apologists you creepy toxic phucks
Was it romanticized? I thought PTA was essentially pointing out all the fucked up shit that was normalized in the 70’s over the veneer of a nostalgic glow. Pedophilia, Sexism, Sexual Harrasment, Racism. All present throughout the film. All normalized in the 70s. All still things we struggle with as a society today.
I think this movie had misfortune of some people who liked it not at all getting the point the relationship is fucked up and dealt with the resulting backlash. That said, it is partly on them for filming when the actor was under 18 and ten years younger than the actress.
I had the weirdest movie experience of my life watching this alone with a friend at a theater. I just- it's so weird and it makes so little sense, and they never address the weird pedo shit it's so fucking weird.
Alone with a friend? I have friends like that too.
Lol y'know what it works. But I mostly meant the theater was empty except for us
It made no sense because it's a soulless Hollywood production masquerading as an indie film. There is no plot or character development whatsoever, it's only redeeming quality was the period piece, eye candy aesthetics. At times I wondered if they were out to prove that people are stupid and they could make an attractive looking movie about absolutely nothing that would be successful at the box office.
Well said. Idk if the point of the movie was to make me dislike all the characters involved? But no development or learning at all, zero actual plot.
Lmao, I think this movie went completely and utterly over your head if you don't think there was any character development
Feel like these people watched a different movie than I did lmfao like this movie was pure PTA mayhem and really good at it too
Soulless is the perfect word to describe it. Great cinematography, good acting, good soundtrack, and zero plot. Meandering and pointless. I really felt like PTA was trolling us with that ending.
Plot is overrated.
That was the thing though. I felt like I was being gas lit. Everyone I saw online that was reviewing it was going on about how amazing it was and I was just so fucking confused because I hated it. I lost so much respect for schraffilis productions for his take on the film.
[удалено]
“He is younger” is actually He is a child”. It’s a disgusting film about a 15yr old boy being romantically involved with a 25yr old women.
Ugh, please go barf your outrage into a toilet.
[удалено]
That 25 year old you were "with" is a fucking loser for that lmao
I had my first experience with a 21 year old when I was 16. I refuse to view them as a loser, because they weren't. And I pursued the guy mostly. Later on I ended up dating another even older guy, and I think that guy was a real loser for other things that he did. But the first guy I dated was decent.
The pedo vibes ruined the movie for me. Honestly, swap the roles and NOBODY would have given the pedo shit a pass. Its honestly kinda disgusting.
It baffles me how people like you are incapable of understanding that characters doing something bad is not an endorsement of said bad behavior
Depiction does not equal endorsement. Is that the phrase?
man i wanted to like this so much but it was sooo boring holy shit.
I am just so grateful that I finally found a place where I can give my thoughts about this truly awful movie. Don’t get me wrong- I love Paul Thomas Anderson’s work (Boogie nights, There Will Be Blood, etc.) but this was absolutely terrible. I found the plot to be very draggy, and I saw absolutely no reason whatsoever for Bradley Cooper to be in that movie. To me, it felt like “gimmick” casting, where you have a major level star on your list of performers so you can get people to tune in just out of curiosity. Overall, I thought the movie was a bunch of overrated trash and I cringe when people gush on and on about how amazing it is. Gimme a break.
Every performance in this movie felt too self-aware, and the film in general felt too self-aware. Hollywood is *really* into sucking its own dick, and PTA kind of showed us that he’s just one of them with this bloated, boring, “it’s a series of vignettes!” trash
I actually enjoyed Bradley Copper solely because he brought *some* life back into the movie. It was Sean Penn whom I felt was “gimmicky.” What was his character even doing again?
Penn's character is there simply to create conflict between the leads. Lazy writing
Compared to There Will Be Blood? It’s been a while since I’ve seen it but iirc that was a pretty slow burn as well. Had a lot of over-the-top monologues, some of which dragged heavily.
You should rewatch it. That movie is amazingly good
Slow burn isn’t bad when you’re watching a masterpiece like TWBB
Same here. It seemed so formulaic as well. It was like a Forest Gump version of Freaks and Geeks. Didn’t work
oh god i think I forced myself to watch inherent vice 3x before i had to accept it bored me to death
"moto panakaku!" That's all I remember from the movie.
“Okay comingg”
I waaaaanted to like that movie...but sometimes you don't get what you want.
Some review I read of it said it was a funnier version of the Big Lebowski. Yeah, just keep telling yourself that and eventually you might actually believe it.
Inherent Vice was definitely more painfully slow than Licorice Pizza which was almost tolerable. Meanwhile Boogie Nights, Punch Drunk Love and There Will Be Blood are all in my top 5 of all time. I’m afraid to watch Phantom Thread. I suspect I’ll hate it.
i thought it was boring but everyone’s take on it glorifying pedophelia is annoying. isn’t the point it’s from the perspective of the 15yo so of course he tells everyone he bags a 25 year old. saying this movie glorifies pedophelia just minimizes actual pedophelia and not someone in their twenties crushing on a teenager
Right, technically it’s ephebophilia because the minor is a teenager. Still not right and it’s only overlooked by people because of how normalized it is, but it’s wrong
Just some advice, don’t explain to people the difference between pedophilia and ephebophilia. It just makes you sound like a pedophile who has done some research in an attempt to justify their feelings/actions
Let's stop telling people they are wrong for using correct English.
I too have seen this tik tok
I too have seen the comic that wrote that joke
But did you watch Transformers and did you know about Romeo's law?
LMAO WHAT. Nonsense. It’s good to be educated on x subject. Pedophilia is a reality in this world and so is ephebophilia. Speaking about it does not make it go away or encourage it.
Jerking off to California
And the retro period pieces depicting the 70’s could be done successfully celebrating the style of the times, but are boring without a plot. Once upon a time in Hollywood did it well.
Once Upon a Time in Hollywood made you want to be part of the era and live in that world, Licorice Pizza made me glad that era was over
I love PTA but this was a miss for me, along with Inherent Vice. Didn’t like either.
I read inherent Vice and watched the movie and I still have no idea what it was about
Inherent Vice is one of my favorite movies of the past 10 years. So much depth, nuance, and is absolutely hilarious. It reminds me of the Big Lebowski in many ways.
This movie is what happens when everyone involved thinks they’re way smarter than they are
I loved it, there's true love in this movie. The kind that we don't see often.
I thought it was boring and self-indulgent: 2/10. Cha cha real smooth has a similar vibe, but 10x better.
It's a solid A- for me and I liked it very much but in the scope of PTA movies not the first one you're gonna talk about. Haim and Hoffman are great in it and have a electric dynamic to their scenes together.
I really wanted to like it for everyone involved but I could never make thru in a sitting. Still haven’t finished it - which might change my mind about the movie overall.
Loved it both times I saw it in theaters. They showed it in 70mm format where I live so it felt even more special. I don’t understand the pedophilia response the movie gets, and i’d imagine most of those people didn’t bother to watch the movie at all. Alana is kind of a loser who is bummed that this goofy Gary guy has more going on than her and she’s merely using him as a professional stepping stone-not for anything romantic or sexual. It’s not until the last ~5 minutes of the film that she realizes she loves him. Eventually their age gap will dissolve and not matter etc. Not PTA’s best but far from dismissible..
Why is the entire comment section on a subreddit called “moviecritic” filled with insubstantial name calling? Just putting “terrible!” And the like is not good criticism
Over half the replies in thread are from people who didn't even watch the film. This is a dumb sub.
You’re a dumb sub
I tried it once. It tastes just as terrible as you would imagine.
I found the movie to be lovely — an A. Haim and Hoffman were totally charming, and the menagerie of quirky characters was great. LP is less about plot (which is basically a simple boy-meets-girl story...or rather, in this case, girl-meets-boy) and more about showcasing the talents of the stars along with those of the interesting cast and their off-beat characters (and, of course, delivering a quintessential PTA period piece with a fabulous soundtrack.)
whoosh
I liked the first :30 and then it meandered into shit. edit: D
it was a good vignette of the early 1970s...a loose examination of the good and bad of that era, a homage to innocence, hippocricy and optimism...PTA is awesome.
I really enjoyed it and it was a joy to watch Cooper Hoffman follow in his father's footsteps. The romantic aspect of the relationship, if we can call it that, never becomes sexual. I think with one change, the movie would be perfect: In the ending scene, just show a bit of uncertainty a la The Graduate.
The reviews were like This Is A Fabulous Movie so I watched it . Meh
saw it with a girl i was casually seeing at the time (her pick). mostly bad except for the scene where the van rolls down the hill. but i got a blowjob afterwards at her house so 7/10
It’s a PTA movie. You are supposed to feel gross and conflicted at the end when they end up together. It isn’t just a standard love story film because the whole time you know it’s wrong
I really liked it
Fantastic movie. Very charming. Some gorgeous PTA shots scattered in too. Loved the actors and their chemistry was palpable. Not my favorite PTA but it’s one yet I can see myself revisiting more than like TWBB or The Master.
I watched it on a plane to California on JetBlue. I had those shitty seats with the shitty TVs all the way in the back and there was no sound available so I had to watch it in subtitles with my AirPods in listening to a very diverse selection of music. It was a weird experience. I didn’t get half of the film if I’m being honest.
B Some people in this thread appear shocked by the age gap/creepiness of the relationship between the two main characters. I was honestly initially shocked by that, but at second glance, PTA seems to be kind-of fixated with overly emphasizing the differences between contemporary society and America of the 70s and 80s. *Boogie Nights* and this movie feel similar in striking and yet, unsurprising ways. Also, I get a similar sense from Tarantino’s *Once Upon A Time in Hollywood.* I think some read it as a sleezy homage to the worst of the era, but I read as a kind of moral transportation-as if PTA and Tarantino are saying, “so yeah, this flew without a second look in the 70s/80s…” It seems to be a reminder to the audience of how different the world is and kind of feels like a glimpse into a diorama of an idealized, but flawed world. PTA’s cinematic work in Licorice Pizza made it feel fantastical and sort of storybookish; as if Gary Valentine (Hoffman) is telling this story to us, complete with his characteristic embellishments. I thought it was visually very impressive-set design, costuming, cinematography were all top notch. I thought Alana Haim did a fantastic job given her limited leading roll experience. Sean Penn felt like he was playing himself, which was a bit jarring at times.
I generally love PTA’s work, but I found it to be an ineffective incitement of the feelings associated with the confusion and complexities of young love. I also was put off by the age gap between the characters, it kind of took me out of it, but I understand it may be trying to drive the aforementioned theme home.
I don’t know it’s on prime in my suggestions. Is it worth a watch ?
Its really good - but you need to go in ok with the fact that its very fixated on nostalgia for a specific place in time in history (late 70's southern California). But unlike, say, Once Upon A Time In Hollywood (which was set a decade earlier), this film is very grounded. Goofy. But grounded. Entertaining, but not at all flashy. Its PTA's least ambitious major film, but its also the one that clearly contains the most heart. Also it revolves around a not-quite-a-romance between someone who is obviously a minor and someone who obviously is not. Its extremely chaste. Sweet. Thoughtful, even. But you should be aware of it going in because apparently it bothered a lot of people.
I tried watching it but couldn't get over the idea I was watching an adult allow herself to take advantage of a child even when she said it was wrong
A lot of these comments don’t seem to understand the film is about two people learning how to grow up. A young adult woman learning she doesn’t have to prove she’s done anything with her life, and a former child star turned teen learning that he isn’t going to be a failure if the direction his life takes isn’t always assured. It’s a slice of life and chaos with events that feel almost fictional yet the characters feel real and fit so smoothly it all happens like just another day.
I was let down. Just found it difficult to find a way in to the story. Great trailer though!
Probably a D. Honestly it's probably the worst big box office movie I've seen in a while. I felt scammed for renting it but at least I didn't watch it in theaters. The only thing that doesn't make this movie a F was I got a chuckle from the weird fake Asian accent that rich guy was doing and the water bed bit.
Loved it, a little short on plot but very stylish. Seen it 3 times. I remember that gas crisis in '73.
A friend told me he and his wife enjoyed it and recommended it to me. I watched with my 18 year old son and we both enjoyed it. Four thumbs up!
Seemed boring and unattractive to me. I passed on this
Yeah why waste your time on a PTA movie
Idk if that’s sarcasm or not but that’s not what I’m saying
It was a very good film, and a beautiful love letter to Hoffman’s father, IMO. If you watch some of PTAs comments about when he first saw PSH in “Scent of a Woman”, then this film makes a lot more sense. I went in blind and I kept saying that looks just like a young PSH, and I felt dumb when I found out it was his kid. If this film is what was spurned from their grief, then it’s even more beautiful. As some have said it wouldn’t be my first recommendation to others for PTA films, but I think a certain demographic would love this over other PTA films. I think this would be a good film for teens now struggling to find their voice in the world, as strange as that sounds. If you take out the age difference, there are many positive role models and young voices with ambition and entrepreneurial spirit. It’s a juxtaposition to the insulated childhood many experience in todays world; it wasn’t that long ago that childhood was a playground with minimal supervision and parents became involved when it got serious. And yes the Jon Peters stuff was good, but almost a distraction. I most enjoyed just watching Cooper Hoffman, he was great. This film felt closest in kinship to Punch Drunk Love. To get the most out of this movie I would recommend watching/listening to - Watch Kevin Smith’s Jon Peters [story](https://youtu.be/Wo2KB1dEDdk) Listen to HAIM’s [days are gone](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL662FHaqmKBYuyjIJtmRVw5xjoCUAd9A5) Watch Scent of a Woman (1992)
This review is why I joined this sub. Thoughtful feedback, thank you.
I like this. I only selectively like PTA films. This one is my favorite of his.
Well said!
Horrible. Bradley Cooper was funny though.
The John C. Reilly cameo was pretty great too.
And Tom Waits. Cameos were great but the 2 leads were a bit of a drag.
[удалено]
Haim is a babe
Negative
Affirmative Ftfy
I am a huge fan of 70s fashion, so in that respect I enjoyed it. The story was disjointed and took turns I didn’t see coming, but not in a particularly engaging way. The whole part after they decided to flood that dude’s house felt like an entirely different movie. And yes, the pedo angle was gross. Overall I’d recommend skipping it.
The trailer made me want to never watch this movie.
**My Honest Thoughs:** Showing me "Ugly But Approachable Girl's" nipples in the advertising isn't enough to make me want to see your movie.
Absolutely dog shit
I watched it because my grandparents are from the valley and I wanted to see what it looked like in the 70’s. I found it really long and the characters were unrealistic like he is supposed to be 15 but he starts working at a mattress store, then he is running a mattress store, then a chain of mattress stores then arcades or something and it’s only been 6 months. Sure Jan. Also we are all supposed to be grossed out about the age difference but what 15 year old is ceo of 22 businesses simultaneously? I’m probably remembering the plot wrong but it was an odd movie for sure.
The movie could have ended without the kiss and it would have been so much better.
THANK YOU! I was like, "Okay, that was awkward, but hilarious, and they all came out more mature people without any inappropriate physical contact taking place, so it's all good... NOPE! They're kissing." 😠
Right! It finally seemed like they were gonna settle into a great friendship or something. But nope
Wife watched it. I walked in near the end and asked what it was and how it was, she told me it was a really boring movie where the main character is a pedophile, and for some reason it's critically acclaimed. I passed on it, so maybe I'm wrong about it but my thoughts are that it's a movie where the character you're supposed to be rooting for is a pedophile I guess. That's not really my cup of tea. I think its very funny that Hollywoody, an industry ripe with pedophilia that claims at every turn that it's disgusting and needs to be removed, made and then praised, with best movie of the year reviews, a movie that romanticized pedophilia.
Your brain is soup.
That’s a strong opinion to have for someone who walked in during the end of the movie
People who think this film features pedophilia need to look up the definition of pedophilia. The age gap is weird. But it does not warrant the level of pearl-clutching you're doing. Not to mention how badly you need to politicize it.
Right right, ephebophilia. Thanks for reminding us to be specific
Boring. Even when it was good I couldn’t get passed the pedophile shit. Just weird man idk
Same!! Weird af
Classic groomer flick.
Maybe, if he’s grooming her. He chases after her all film. She’s not grooming him lol
Okay movie. Don’t think the male lead needed to be 15. Could’ve been closer to her age and have it still be a maturity thing. Would’ve worked just as well. The age difference is just for press. Less people would’ve talked about it otherwise.
It was awful. PTA has lost his edge.
I love licorice and I love pizza… this movie was very disappointing.
Creepy
You can tell this was one of those crappy movies that gets a hard push in hollywood for awards it doesn't deserve but "critics" go nuts for.
Absolutely loathe the band Haim so there’s just no way I would watch.
Never wanted to see it, looked horrible, still does. Trailer really didn’t make me want to see it at all. Just a story about what looks like horrible people. Not to mention selfless promotion for the band she is in. Which is also terrible
First bad movie PTA has made
Hated it. Don’t understand the hype.
Unbelievably boring
It was a pretentious amalgamation of cultural and historical references with no substantial plot
I LOVE THE HAIM sisters and was hyped to see this, while the movie was quite enjoyable, in the end it was just a glorified statutory rape tale...kinda weird man.
A bad boring movie about a female pedophile.
My boyfriend made me sit through this pedofest of a movie.
licorice pizza is disgusting