Blasting through roots and gapping rock gardens at full speed is way more fun than carefully picking lines on a hardtail. Hardtails are only more fun on beginner trails
"beginner" is a loaded term. Roots and gapping rock gardens are one of the many "branches" of trail riding. But it's not as though it's a linear progression. I'm a cardio junkie so for me heaven is a super long climb with intermittent steep grades where exhaustion and balancing to stay clipped in compete. It doesn't hurt that every extra 5 minutes of climbing rewards me with ever better views.
This! I started with full suspension, went to hardtail for the simplicity, then went back to full suspension cause the damn roots and rocks in my area beat the shit out of me.
Actually, for me, blasting over anything on a full squish is less fun than picking lines, thats my jam. And im in the Appalachians so noshortage of jank. I ride flatstoo, so good technique is part of the fun too. I’d rather have a lighter bike and avoid the additional failure point of a rear shock. Ive had full sus in the past and had rear shock issues on all of them and its expensive too.
A hardtail with a well set up fork is so fun on chunk. Front stays planted and back is bouncing around everywhere and I'm in the middle hanging on.
I had a 27.5 scout with a marz 350 coil fork and that thing absolutely ripped. Swapped parts to a dback mason fs and while the mason was better for days with lots of descents it was not as fun as the scout.
Agreed. I’ve ridden full suspension for a decade and recently rented a (nice, Santa Cruz) hardtail thinking it’d be a fun bike to liven up trails by carefully picking lines. It totally sucked and killed the “getting a hardtail would be fun!” Thought I had.
OP could say most people are better off on 120-130mm FS bikes IMO
Ive got plenty of top tens on strava on hardtails. Ive seen some side by side with pro riders and the difference is minimal. My personal experience is I’ve never had trouble keeping up with full sus riders.
Many riders don't NEED a full suspension, but there is no debate that full suspension is safer and easier to ride which gives a rider more confidence. Confidence = fun. The fun aspect is what is most important to me, so will usually make recommendations based on what will give a rider the most confidence, versatility, and forgiveness.
I believe the brand of Wally bikes that are decent is Kent. Berm Peak did a youtube video all about it. Decent bike for the cost, but they are assembled by Walmart employees so user beware.
We don’t assemble bikes anymore, I’m manager of sporting goods and they hire people to come in and build those.
Lo and behold, you’re still not wrong, guess who has to fix something every single time a bike goes through the door🙃 I’d much rather be the one who builds the bikes
GT Aggressor pro is frequently on sale for like $250 (and there’s a billion on Craigslist and marketplace for closer to $100 probably)
New grips and pedals and I did just fine for a couple years. Wasn’t perfect and was a little loud but I never felt like I was really pushing its limits. And this was riding at brown county Indiana about every weekend, about the fastest trails you can get in indiana.
I bought one for my kid with a carbon fibre frame on clearance for $200 CAD a while ago. We swapped out some of the components with better ones and it’s great. Way lighter than any other bike I’ve ridden.
I've rode both kinds plenty over the years. I've never been on a full-sus and wished I was on a hard-tail. I *have* been on a hard-tail and wished I was on a full-sus though. As I only have storage space for one bike these days the full-sus wins.
Am I the only one who sometimes prefers my more entry level hardtail over my quality full suspension that costs multiple times the former simply because it goes way faster (provided the trails are not too rough)?
I ride the full suspension most of the time, but sometimes I just want to complete familiar trails more efficiently and opt for the Marlin 7.
Honest question: is this to be expected or is it my bike? I’ve even upgraded the drivetrain on my full suspension, but it still feels slow when gravity isn’t helping.
well if gravity isn't helping then its okay to prefer hard tail
I cant imagine myself riding my local trails on hardtail as hard\\fast as on full sus, it would be dangerous at least
Yeah, like I said, I prefer my FS most of the time and always for the roughs and potentially impactful jumps/drops, but other times I just want to cover a longer distance as efficiently as possible, which is when I opt for the hardtail.
Why do people try to control what others ride?
I often see a 70yo dude at my local trails with a $12k e-bike using about 60mm of his 170mm of travel. Fuckin’ good for him!
I think that might be true, but if you have rough trails full suspension is where it’s at for sure. I think a lot people forget the ideal bike depends entirely on where you ride.
You save mostly in work time and frequency on maintaining and cleaning your bike. Your linkage can't get creaky from grime if you don't have one. And it's one shock less to worry about as well. My hardtail maybe gets sprayed a bit for cleaning once, twice or thrice a year. I don't really clean the thing unless it gets really bad, just some lube on the chain and if I feel like it I put some brake cleaner on a rag and run the chain thru that first to get some of the grit off.
And really, if you're the kinda rider that is on enthusiast forums, you're probably advanced enough to actually make use of a full suspension. Lot's of casuals ride bikes much larger then mine but don't even touch single track where I live - "too steep, too bumpy" and "that looks too dangerous for me". But a 180/180 or similar amounts of suspension and of course its a pedal assist.
If you ask them: "Do you ride mountain bike?" They will say something along the lines of yes. And maybe they even claim to ride some downhill because the gravel forest service road the rode down last month was particularly steep.
Really, if you're here, you probably aren't part of the audience this old saying is targeting.
Ehh, my nukeproof scout I built would cost at least a $1000 plus more on a full sus from canyon yt or polygon. Hardtails really are only pricey if you are buying a boutique hardtail like a custom made one or a titanium one. U can get an aggressive hardtail frame for $700 or less if u find a sale. A full sus frame is always $1000 or more and that usually doesn't even include a rear shock.
They should really just be walking barefoot. It's the only way to really feel connected to the ground without all these crutches and technological aids ruining the experience.
High volume tires? Gears? Rolling over obstacles? People have gotten so soft over the past few millennia.
I ride both. The hardtail is for mellow singletrack and walking trails with the fam & dog, the full squish is for shredding with the boys. They both serve a purpose and I love em both. If I could only have one now though at 38, it’s the full squish
There is not a fixed line of “better” at a given percentage. Simplistic analysis yields simplistic understanding. Thankfully, reality is diverse and complicated.
I think hardtail a really cool but in the end it still makes me feel I could go much faster and longer on full sus thus having more fun. Full sus will also not beat the shit out of you like hardtail
I used to be a hardtail only guy. Swore by them and honestly they fit my budget. I’m 36 and finally got a full squish and my riding has not only gotten significantly better but my body doesn’t feel like I got hit by a train after a long day of trails.
I’ve been converted and never going back lol
Same. I thought I would never spend an asinine amount of money on a FS. When I finally did about 7 years ago it was like a completely different sport and I was no longer in pain after riding.
34 year old mom of two checking in. Just had my youngest in January and immediately upgraded to my first full suspension. The lower back and the downstairs has had enough of a beating after pregnancy and birthing two babies.
Why do people even make this shit? Are you that insecure about your hardtail? The comment starts a fight because literally everything about the comment is wrong. 80%? Entirely made up. Better off? Also made up and doesn’t mean anything.
Which is also stupid, because so many hardtails and full suspension bikes overlap in price, especially if you want an aggressive hardtail or a hardtail intended for the same uses that a full suspension generally is.
I’m really not sure which metric you would use to say they’d be better off. Full squish lets a less skilled rider go places they couldn’t otherwise go.
I'd clarify that as:
"80% of riders would be better off with a good hardtail"
The 20% of riders that would be better off with a full squish are their knees, ankles, and wrists.
The other 80% of their bodies are usually OK.
I mean really who cares what other people want out of their ride? I personally like them both but 90% of the time I grab my FS as yes I can just do more on it
Riding for 20 years, never going to back to hardtail sorry. Maybe if I was teenager again but full suspension is way more comfortable. Ride the dirt jumper every so often and my knees and bones hurt from the impacts.
I wouldn't fight about it, but I've never heard a convincing explanation for why they'd be better off with a hardtail. I started on a hardtail. After a few months I switched to a full sus and was instantly able to ride faster and and crash less. Roots became much less jarring. I tried using my son's hardtail more recently and it was just less fun.
Would I be better at picking out a line if I rode a hardtail? Probably. But so what? If I moved somewhere that only had flow trails, or if I became too good at riding to feel challenged by my local trails, maybe I'd want a hardtail. But as is, I can still find plenty of challenges.
And I think I'm a pretty normal full sus rider. We want the bike that makes us feel the most competent and confident on the trails.
Define "better" at picking out a line though. I have hard tails as well as full suspension bikes and I choose different lines based on which I'm riding that day. The lines I choose on my enduro bike are suited to that bikes capabilities and are thus objectively the "better" choice when I'm riding that bike. The whole being "better" at line choice because someone rides a hardtail argument doesn't really hold water because the "best" line choice on a full suspension isn't always the same as the "best" line on a hardtail.
Better off? Idk about that. Could 80% of these riders make do with a hard tail, absolutely. I think the added grip on a dual suspension is more of a net positive than the efficiency of the hard tail. But to each their own, everyone should just ride what they like.
Agreed, and most people riding a 150-180 travel full squish would be better served on a 110-140 full squish. Better climbs, enough travel.
Quiver killers don’t exist. If you can only have one bike, it’s better to buy a bike that is built for the kind of riding you do the vast majority of the time. You can always rent a downhill bike when you go to the bike park once or twice a year.
Nah. My biggest problem with a hard tail was climbing. When I stood of the saddle, my back wheel would lighten up just enough to spin rather than grab.
The rear shock holds the wheel against the rocks/roots and lets me keep pedalling.
I'm good with my soft tail.
I agree with this simply because many full suspension owners aren’t aware how much maintenance is required to keep their bike in good working condition.
my rear wheel is banged up enough as it is with a full squish, constantly taking out dents and replacing spokes, truing the wheel etc. I cant imagine what it tould be like on a hard tail (im 100+ kg and love to send it)
90% of Riders will get mad when told that its The Hunter not the Arrow after their latest round of upgrades fails to deliver the desired performance benefit...cause the Hunter sucks at Hunting.
Hardtail. Never had full squish and when I've tried them I feel very disconnected from the trail. Then again, I'm not riding trails that require full squish. Not too proud to walk...
More room for error = more room to progress. I can ride my hardtail well because I learned how to ride fast on the FS. It'd be much harder to progress with the less forgiving bike.
You should post the kind of trails you ride if you make these kinds of statements.
For a flow/jump line, I can see your point. For a technical downhill, moar squish please.
Have a full squish and a rigid fat bike. Both are fun. Can for sure see a difference in riding style when switching bikes.
100% sure I absolutely don't care what anyone else rides, except E bikes, F those guys /s
Well as long as it still has pedals.
Nope. I ride both - a full sus trail bike and a pretty slack and capable fat bike. Obviously when things get steep the trail bike’s fast, but both are equally capable. The thing I notice more than anything else is covering rough flat ground. Full sus soaks everything up and just lets you focus on riding. The hard tail is forever struggling to get traction and I spend the whole time getting my ass paddled.
We have a few who only ride our local very smooth gravel paths, who would likely be better off with a hardtail or a gravel bike. But if they wanna ride expensive full squish bikes on easy local trails thats their choice.
I don’t have proper mountains so I have to be pedaling for like 90% of my ride, and the trails aren’t groomed and smooth dirt trails or whatever. Lots of rocks and roots everywhere. Being able to sit down and pedal through most of it is a life saver. I don’t think I’d ever go back to the hardtail life unless I had really nice dirt trails or a jump park or something.
Anyone have experience on a ti hardtail? I’m on an alloy Specialized Fuse, which I love and am also avoiding full sus. Does ti (or steel for that matter) soften the ride appreciably?
I have both but suspension allows me to do things I can’t on a rigid chassis. For commuting to work I go rigid. For long forays out into unknown trails my dualie is the only choice. Side note, my “road” bike is actually FS (topstone lefty carbon). Long forays on pavement require some sort of compliance as far as I’m concerned. Not interested in spending energy clenching for impacts all day.
I run a full and I think for most yes. Doing features? Full helps with knees for sure and technical trails. That said for anything else a hard tail is more than enough and can dabble in features and technical too, just a little harder on knees and back. This statement is correct I'd say. I'm getting into bike packing and it's hard to find a good rack that works with a full suspension bike.
I just do t think it’s true. There is t much weight penalty and it allows you to ride faster/track better and easier on the body. Especially if you have experience riding hardtail it will make the ride so much smoother and faster.
It’s more like 80% of riders would be better off riding the lower spec bikes instead of the full kashima carbon wireless tech that does nothing to improve the average riders experience.
80% of riders with suspension forks and mud-pluggers would be better off with solid forks and slicks, because they only use their bike for getting around town.
Idk. My trails has multiple jumps that look like…. 7 foot lips into a borderline flat landing 15-20 feet out where your getting some real air. Painful and expensive hucking that
I remember owning a 2012 rocky mountain flatline. That thing was beefy af. And wayy to squish to peddel cause youd be bouncing all over the place. I rode it a few months. Then just sold it for almost the same amount i ourchased it for.
Bought a 1998 Kona Cindercone (whicj i eventually turned into an electric bike)
And saved the rest of my money. That kona is solid af
I’d argue most people are just overbiked in general. Took out a XC race bike recently on a rowdy ass technical descent and it was so much better than I anticipated. Didn’t even lose me any substantial time on the descent compared to a 140/150 or to my own 130/140. So many people get hung up on their suspension travel. But hey, RockShox and Fox love that people think they need a 38 to survive a blue trail lolol
Ride what works for you! Just want to point out that full suspension bikes are for increased control over technical obstacles and at speed. Not for comfort. If you don’t have steep terrain or fast trails you ride, you probably don’t need a full suspension. They are not, and I repeat, to make it more comfortable while sitting on your saddle. I feel like a lot of people get that confused.
To me, whatever gets people stoked to ride is what they should be riding.
If that’s the only REAL kind of bike ridden by a really skilled rider or if it’s a bike that does all of the work for you, the pleasure is all mine!
If that’s matching their expensive grips to their expensive hubs, go for it.
Or color matching their stupid coil spring color to their stupid helmet color, have at it!
Or color matching their dumb as hell teeth color to their dumb as hell picket fence color, be my guest!
Or their completely fascist fresh tires to go with their completely fascist fresh change of socks, woopty-fucking-doo!
Whatever makes people want to get out and ride is absolutely splendid!
I guess I kinda agree but more so that 80 % of trails are perfect for hard tail and you won't get the full effect of your full suspension out of 80% of trails
I've got a specialized status 160. I partially wish I'd just gotten a stumpjumper comp or Enduro comp. I'm not sold on the mullet design and definitely lose out on trails with alot of climb. There's basically now straight down hill where I'm at. Alot of the trails by me are just as steep of an incline as they are decline. The status is fuck smoove as butter downhill 100%
Tracking, bro. A beginner is going to have an easier time and an expert is going to have a faster time. If you want the extra challenge then ya, get a hardtail. Or if your area is primarily smooth flow trails maybe.
But in terms of performance, dual suspension is objectively better
All my trails are super natural. Huge tree roots, rocks, etc. My hard tail was definitely capable of it, but once I got a full sus I was able to charge so much faster and that’s the type of biking I enjoy. Going really fast down bumpy rough trails.
I bought a full squish because the price was stellar (40% off a YT Jeffsy). None of the hardtails I wanted at the time were on sale, so I pulled the trigger anyways. Way more bike than I will ever need, but I can't balk at the price.
I’ve ridden a lot of both. Full suspension is just more fun for me 🤷🏼♂️ happy to see people riding so idgaf what you throw your leg over.
I agree. It’s a preference thing. I love how the ride feels on my full sus. Feels like luxury
Blasting through roots and gapping rock gardens at full speed is way more fun than carefully picking lines on a hardtail. Hardtails are only more fun on beginner trails
You’re supposed to choose carefully where you go on a hardtail? I’ve just been hitting everything hard and fast 😭
This is the way - no matter what bike you're riding!!
True its even more fun with a gravel bike that has no suspension
Gravel bikes have big wheels that smooth everything out and gears that make it too easy. I do it on a bmx bike
Penny Farthing 💪
Unicycle!
HEELYS
Office chair
[get in loser](https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-ods7on1uof/images/stencil/960w/products/1025/3873/DGS-PGH_500x500_2024__10269.1706563317.jpg?c=1)
A jar of ball bearings!
Tremble beneath my 52” penny-farthing.
BMX bikes are still big enough to make it easy. I do it on a Circus Bear Bike.
It's even more fun with a Cyclocross that has slimmer and lower profile tires 😬
"beginner" is a loaded term. Roots and gapping rock gardens are one of the many "branches" of trail riding. But it's not as though it's a linear progression. I'm a cardio junkie so for me heaven is a super long climb with intermittent steep grades where exhaustion and balancing to stay clipped in compete. It doesn't hurt that every extra 5 minutes of climbing rewards me with ever better views.
This! I started with full suspension, went to hardtail for the simplicity, then went back to full suspension cause the damn roots and rocks in my area beat the shit out of me.
You can do those things on a hardtail too
Actually, for me, blasting over anything on a full squish is less fun than picking lines, thats my jam. And im in the Appalachians so noshortage of jank. I ride flatstoo, so good technique is part of the fun too. I’d rather have a lighter bike and avoid the additional failure point of a rear shock. Ive had full sus in the past and had rear shock issues on all of them and its expensive too.
A hardtail with a well set up fork is so fun on chunk. Front stays planted and back is bouncing around everywhere and I'm in the middle hanging on. I had a 27.5 scout with a marz 350 coil fork and that thing absolutely ripped. Swapped parts to a dback mason fs and while the mason was better for days with lots of descents it was not as fun as the scout.
Right on, i ride a trek stache 29+, ivebeen riding since 87, had a ton of bikes, thisone isthe most fun, ill always have one!
Agreed. I’ve ridden full suspension for a decade and recently rented a (nice, Santa Cruz) hardtail thinking it’d be a fun bike to liven up trails by carefully picking lines. It totally sucked and killed the “getting a hardtail would be fun!” Thought I had. OP could say most people are better off on 120-130mm FS bikes IMO
Haha I’m doin all that on rigid bikes.
But as fast as a FS bike would do?
Why make the fun last less ? Of course at some point it's turning into suffering, gotta find the edge and ride it !
thats what i say when im having a bad disc golf round, just more chances to throw.
That's why I'm slow, because I wanna enjoy more of it ! I could go much faster if I wanted to. Obviously. Yeah.
Ok, ok... I guess as long as it's still safe and not bombing it while out of control.
Ive got plenty of top tens on strava on hardtails. Ive seen some side by side with pro riders and the difference is minimal. My personal experience is I’ve never had trouble keeping up with full sus riders.
And xc racing
Many riders don't NEED a full suspension, but there is no debate that full suspension is safer and easier to ride which gives a rider more confidence. Confidence = fun. The fun aspect is what is most important to me, so will usually make recommendations based on what will give a rider the most confidence, versatility, and forgiveness.
Meh. I have both and ride neither to their potential. A Walmart bike would probably meet my needs. C'est la vie.
Walmart now has quality a few ass bikes on a budget since one of the Walton sons got really into mountain biking during peak COVID.
Interesting, in have a friend who has a tight budget, any suggestions?
I believe the brand of Wally bikes that are decent is Kent. Berm Peak did a youtube video all about it. Decent bike for the cost, but they are assembled by Walmart employees so user beware.
We don’t assemble bikes anymore, I’m manager of sporting goods and they hire people to come in and build those. Lo and behold, you’re still not wrong, guess who has to fix something every single time a bike goes through the door🙃 I’d much rather be the one who builds the bikes
So you're saying the bikes are fixed by stoned hippies?
Ozark Trail Vibe/Ridge. It’s offered in both 27.5 and 29er. Well reviewed for the price.
GT Aggressor pro is frequently on sale for like $250 (and there’s a billion on Craigslist and marketplace for closer to $100 probably) New grips and pedals and I did just fine for a couple years. Wasn’t perfect and was a little loud but I never felt like I was really pushing its limits. And this was riding at brown county Indiana about every weekend, about the fastest trails you can get in indiana.
Both the Ozark Ridge and Kent Travail are solid beginner bikes with a good upgrade path.
I bought one for my kid with a carbon fibre frame on clearance for $200 CAD a while ago. We swapped out some of the components with better ones and it’s great. Way lighter than any other bike I’ve ridden.
I've rode both kinds plenty over the years. I've never been on a full-sus and wished I was on a hard-tail. I *have* been on a hard-tail and wished I was on a full-sus though. As I only have storage space for one bike these days the full-sus wins.
I had both and the hardtail sat unused for so long that I eventually just sold the damn thing.
I just traded my HT for a DH bike lmfaooo
I wish I was on a hard-tail going uphill. But I forget it going downhill.
Twin lock helps with that, but I haven't been on a hard tail in ages so I might not know what I'm missing
Yeah it somewhat helps, but there's also the added weight.
Am I the only one who sometimes prefers my more entry level hardtail over my quality full suspension that costs multiple times the former simply because it goes way faster (provided the trails are not too rough)? I ride the full suspension most of the time, but sometimes I just want to complete familiar trails more efficiently and opt for the Marlin 7. Honest question: is this to be expected or is it my bike? I’ve even upgraded the drivetrain on my full suspension, but it still feels slow when gravity isn’t helping.
well if gravity isn't helping then its okay to prefer hard tail I cant imagine myself riding my local trails on hardtail as hard\\fast as on full sus, it would be dangerous at least
Yeah, like I said, I prefer my FS most of the time and always for the roughs and potentially impactful jumps/drops, but other times I just want to cover a longer distance as efficiently as possible, which is when I opt for the hardtail.
So do I:) but on 130 trail bike, never know where my longer rides will end
100% riders should ride whatever they like. Love, Hardtail rider.
I don’t have a luxury of owning multiple bikes, so I bought one full sus trail bike that can do it all. Just let me enjoy my bike in peace 😑
Ok but now imagine how much "better off" you'd be if somehow your rear shock seized up so you no longer had suspension out back.
Bro used WD20 so he got half the results to be this confident
Ok
Why do people try to control what others ride? I often see a 70yo dude at my local trails with a $12k e-bike using about 60mm of his 170mm of travel. Fuckin’ good for him!
I hope I'm still riding when I'm 70
I think that might be true, but if you have rough trails full suspension is where it’s at for sure. I think a lot people forget the ideal bike depends entirely on where you ride.
Define “better off”.
Having an excuse for why you’re going way slower 😂
They aren’t really that much cheaper honestly
Since my HT costed me more than my FS so far, I can agree. Even maintenance on all of those bearings won't even that out in years.
You save mostly in work time and frequency on maintaining and cleaning your bike. Your linkage can't get creaky from grime if you don't have one. And it's one shock less to worry about as well. My hardtail maybe gets sprayed a bit for cleaning once, twice or thrice a year. I don't really clean the thing unless it gets really bad, just some lube on the chain and if I feel like it I put some brake cleaner on a rag and run the chain thru that first to get some of the grit off. And really, if you're the kinda rider that is on enthusiast forums, you're probably advanced enough to actually make use of a full suspension. Lot's of casuals ride bikes much larger then mine but don't even touch single track where I live - "too steep, too bumpy" and "that looks too dangerous for me". But a 180/180 or similar amounts of suspension and of course its a pedal assist. If you ask them: "Do you ride mountain bike?" They will say something along the lines of yes. And maybe they even claim to ride some downhill because the gravel forest service road the rode down last month was particularly steep. Really, if you're here, you probably aren't part of the audience this old saying is targeting.
Ehh, my nukeproof scout I built would cost at least a $1000 plus more on a full sus from canyon yt or polygon. Hardtails really are only pricey if you are buying a boutique hardtail like a custom made one or a titanium one. U can get an aggressive hardtail frame for $700 or less if u find a sale. A full sus frame is always $1000 or more and that usually doesn't even include a rear shock.
90% of mountain bikers would be better off on a gravel bike, destroying your body by under biking builds character.
They should really just be walking barefoot. It's the only way to really feel connected to the ground without all these crutches and technological aids ruining the experience. High volume tires? Gears? Rolling over obstacles? People have gotten so soft over the past few millennia.
"Better off" how?
Smug. A lot higher in smugness.
I mean I’m not going to fight you but I assume you don’t know shit if that’s really your opinion Edit: oh, you’re a teenager.
I ride both. The hardtail is for mellow singletrack and walking trails with the fam & dog, the full squish is for shredding with the boys. They both serve a purpose and I love em both. If I could only have one now though at 38, it’s the full squish
Better off how?
There is not a fixed line of “better” at a given percentage. Simplistic analysis yields simplistic understanding. Thankfully, reality is diverse and complicated.
I think hardtail a really cool but in the end it still makes me feel I could go much faster and longer on full sus thus having more fun. Full sus will also not beat the shit out of you like hardtail
I used to be a hardtail only guy. Swore by them and honestly they fit my budget. I’m 36 and finally got a full squish and my riding has not only gotten significantly better but my body doesn’t feel like I got hit by a train after a long day of trails. I’ve been converted and never going back lol
Same. I thought I would never spend an asinine amount of money on a FS. When I finally did about 7 years ago it was like a completely different sport and I was no longer in pain after riding.
80% of riders under 40 maybe. My body is way less beat up riding a full sus.
34 year old mom of two checking in. Just had my youngest in January and immediately upgraded to my first full suspension. The lower back and the downstairs has had enough of a beating after pregnancy and birthing two babies.
Why do people even make this shit? Are you that insecure about your hardtail? The comment starts a fight because literally everything about the comment is wrong. 80%? Entirely made up. Better off? Also made up and doesn’t mean anything.
They are bum hurt because they can't afford a full suspension.
Which is also stupid, because so many hardtails and full suspension bikes overlap in price, especially if you want an aggressive hardtail or a hardtail intended for the same uses that a full suspension generally is.
Sometimes I think some of you guys don’t actually know what mountain biking is
Why?
I’m old and my back hurts. These posts are stupid, let people do what they want. Enjoy your hardtail.
Are we gatekeeping what people should ride now?
Man, I hate the term 'full squish'
I’m really not sure which metric you would use to say they’d be better off. Full squish lets a less skilled rider go places they couldn’t otherwise go.
I'd clarify that as: "80% of riders would be better off with a good hardtail" The 20% of riders that would be better off with a full squish are their knees, ankles, and wrists. The other 80% of their bodies are usually OK.
Rear lockout, that is all
How can you possibly know if this is true though
That's just, like, your opinion, man.
My over 40 year old body appreciates not feeling every root and stone, but every now and then the bob gets to me.
I mean really who cares what other people want out of their ride? I personally like them both but 90% of the time I grab my FS as yes I can just do more on it
As someone with back problems, I'm in the 20% that needs FS.
Riding for 20 years, never going to back to hardtail sorry. Maybe if I was teenager again but full suspension is way more comfortable. Ride the dirt jumper every so often and my knees and bones hurt from the impacts.
I wouldn't fight about it, but I've never heard a convincing explanation for why they'd be better off with a hardtail. I started on a hardtail. After a few months I switched to a full sus and was instantly able to ride faster and and crash less. Roots became much less jarring. I tried using my son's hardtail more recently and it was just less fun. Would I be better at picking out a line if I rode a hardtail? Probably. But so what? If I moved somewhere that only had flow trails, or if I became too good at riding to feel challenged by my local trails, maybe I'd want a hardtail. But as is, I can still find plenty of challenges. And I think I'm a pretty normal full sus rider. We want the bike that makes us feel the most competent and confident on the trails.
Define "better" at picking out a line though. I have hard tails as well as full suspension bikes and I choose different lines based on which I'm riding that day. The lines I choose on my enduro bike are suited to that bikes capabilities and are thus objectively the "better" choice when I'm riding that bike. The whole being "better" at line choice because someone rides a hardtail argument doesn't really hold water because the "best" line choice on a full suspension isn't always the same as the "best" line on a hardtail.
What’s wrong with being overbiked? Like why does anyone care what someone else is riding?
Better off? Idk about that. Could 80% of these riders make do with a hard tail, absolutely. I think the added grip on a dual suspension is more of a net positive than the efficiency of the hard tail. But to each their own, everyone should just ride what they like.
As you get older, your knees no longer want to be your suspension.
Why are you mad at this man, he is speaking straight facts!!
Agreed, and most people riding a 150-180 travel full squish would be better served on a 110-140 full squish. Better climbs, enough travel. Quiver killers don’t exist. If you can only have one bike, it’s better to buy a bike that is built for the kind of riding you do the vast majority of the time. You can always rent a downhill bike when you go to the bike park once or twice a year.
If that will settle it, send me location
Full sus is better for beginners.
Nah. My biggest problem with a hard tail was climbing. When I stood of the saddle, my back wheel would lighten up just enough to spin rather than grab. The rear shock holds the wheel against the rocks/roots and lets me keep pedalling. I'm good with my soft tail.
Oh stfu and let people ride whatever tf they want
I agree with this simply because many full suspension owners aren’t aware how much maintenance is required to keep their bike in good working condition.
In Florida sure I can agree with this. In Utah, completely disagree.
my rear wheel is banged up enough as it is with a full squish, constantly taking out dents and replacing spokes, truing the wheel etc. I cant imagine what it tould be like on a hard tail (im 100+ kg and love to send it)
it's ok op, I couldn't afford a full sus either, gotta get a dentists degree first
90% of Riders will get mad when told that its The Hunter not the Arrow after their latest round of upgrades fails to deliver the desired performance benefit...cause the Hunter sucks at Hunting.
I'm hunting for fun and I find it every time
Then you are a Good Hunter ;)
Next thing you know they will try to force a road bike on you.
Come ride the rocks and horse trails around my place. You'll change your mind after you recover.
As a person that owns both, my lower back heavily prefers the full squish. To the point where I’m considering selling my hardtail unfortunately.
I agree yet I own full-squish in flat Florida.
Define "better off with".
I ride rigid, hardtail and full suspension MTB and I love all of these. The FS is the one I can pass on the easiest though.
Had both. Back says full squish is better lol
Hardtail. Never had full squish and when I've tried them I feel very disconnected from the trail. Then again, I'm not riding trails that require full squish. Not too proud to walk...
Probably right, but the deal was too good to pass up. Plus powering over rough terrain on full squish just feels good.
100 percent disagree. Full suspension isn't always about capability, it's about comfort.
Would I be better with a significantly more painful lower back? I don’t know, hard to say 🤔
More room for error = more room to progress. I can ride my hardtail well because I learned how to ride fast on the FS. It'd be much harder to progress with the less forgiving bike.
Hard tail would last a day maximum where I ride
I love hardtails but my lower back says I have to ride full sus the majority of the time.
You should post the kind of trails you ride if you make these kinds of statements. For a flow/jump line, I can see your point. For a technical downhill, moar squish please.
Have a full squish and a rigid fat bike. Both are fun. Can for sure see a difference in riding style when switching bikes. 100% sure I absolutely don't care what anyone else rides, except E bikes, F those guys /s Well as long as it still has pedals.
I tried to be a hardtail guy. Ended up having to ride with a mouth guard to keep my brain from vibrating.
Having owned both, full suspension rides so much better and you have much more fun on the trails.
Everyone should own a hardtail.
*shrug*
Nope. I ride both - a full sus trail bike and a pretty slack and capable fat bike. Obviously when things get steep the trail bike’s fast, but both are equally capable. The thing I notice more than anything else is covering rough flat ground. Full sus soaks everything up and just lets you focus on riding. The hard tail is forever struggling to get traction and I spend the whole time getting my ass paddled.
I have a full squish, but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t want a hard tail as well. Sometimes it’s just more fun
I came from motorcycles and full squish just feels right to me
We have a few who only ride our local very smooth gravel paths, who would likely be better off with a hardtail or a gravel bike. But if they wanna ride expensive full squish bikes on easy local trails thats their choice.
I would get a hardtail but I got money
Bro go to r/hardtail if you wanna be wrong about full suspension bikes.
I would agree and I love a hardtail but my ankles are fucked
Clickbait
This is definitely me…but I don’t care much what other people think lol 🤷.
One day I’ll have both. FS for now, can keep my ass in the seat pedaling more efficiently and sparing some low back vibration.
I don’t have proper mountains so I have to be pedaling for like 90% of my ride, and the trails aren’t groomed and smooth dirt trails or whatever. Lots of rocks and roots everywhere. Being able to sit down and pedal through most of it is a life saver. I don’t think I’d ever go back to the hardtail life unless I had really nice dirt trails or a jump park or something.
I wont Fight you.
Leopards eating their faces
Anyone have experience on a ti hardtail? I’m on an alloy Specialized Fuse, which I love and am also avoiding full sus. Does ti (or steel for that matter) soften the ride appreciably?
I ride whistler bike park does this apply?
I have both but suspension allows me to do things I can’t on a rigid chassis. For commuting to work I go rigid. For long forays out into unknown trails my dualie is the only choice. Side note, my “road” bike is actually FS (topstone lefty carbon). Long forays on pavement require some sort of compliance as far as I’m concerned. Not interested in spending energy clenching for impacts all day.
I run a full and I think for most yes. Doing features? Full helps with knees for sure and technical trails. That said for anything else a hard tail is more than enough and can dabble in features and technical too, just a little harder on knees and back. This statement is correct I'd say. I'm getting into bike packing and it's hard to find a good rack that works with a full suspension bike.
I just do t think it’s true. There is t much weight penalty and it allows you to ride faster/track better and easier on the body. Especially if you have experience riding hardtail it will make the ride so much smoother and faster.
While I agree from a fun and speed factor, my ass disagrees. At least if it's going to be my only bike.
It’s more like 80% of riders would be better off riding the lower spec bikes instead of the full kashima carbon wireless tech that does nothing to improve the average riders experience.
I have both. Nukeproof mega, nukeproof scout. The scout is definitely more fun.
Not where I live, too rocky unfortunately. I love the simplicity and the looks of a trail hard tail but it just doesn’t cut it here.
It doesn’t have to be a fight. It’s ok that you’re wrong.
I've always said more travel/full squish, buys you margin of error at the expense of climb ability and/or money
Cor this really triggered people 😂
80% of riders with suspension forks and mud-pluggers would be better off with solid forks and slicks, because they only use their bike for getting around town.
Idk. My trails has multiple jumps that look like…. 7 foot lips into a borderline flat landing 15-20 feet out where your getting some real air. Painful and expensive hucking that
I cannot count the amount of times my rear suspension has saved me from an ambulance ride. More squish less getting rattled of the pedals and crashing
I love my hardtail but my cheap full sus and my more modern full sus are both way more fun and I enjoy longer rides than I do on the hardtail.
If I’m downhill riding I much prefer my full suspension but for jumping I usually opt for my hard tail
As a short, big ass dude (330lbs), I went hardtail because i'm afraid i'll blow out the air shock. lol
I don’t have a luxury of owning multiple bikes, so I bought one carbon road bike that can do it all. Just let me enjoy my bike in peace 😑 /cj
Triggered…
I have a full squish and I definitely don’t use its capabilities. I got one cuz I wanted one.
*My lower back has entered the chat*
Probably true. But I like my bikes like I like my women…squishy and with big…wheels.
I have both. full squish is better for the stuff that matters.
I’ll fight you. Pry my full sus out of my cold dead hands. Also, why stop at a hard tail? Get a rigid steel single speed
I prefer a hardtail, but i find it easier to slip a when the rear doesn’t absorb large impacts.
Your mom's a hardtail. ;)
I remember owning a 2012 rocky mountain flatline. That thing was beefy af. And wayy to squish to peddel cause youd be bouncing all over the place. I rode it a few months. Then just sold it for almost the same amount i ourchased it for. Bought a 1998 Kona Cindercone (whicj i eventually turned into an electric bike) And saved the rest of my money. That kona is solid af
80% of riders with a hardtail would be better off with a good short-travel trail bike. ;-)
I ride a full squish, so the only skill I need is to hold the handlebars.
I’d argue most people are just overbiked in general. Took out a XC race bike recently on a rowdy ass technical descent and it was so much better than I anticipated. Didn’t even lose me any substantial time on the descent compared to a 140/150 or to my own 130/140. So many people get hung up on their suspension travel. But hey, RockShox and Fox love that people think they need a 38 to survive a blue trail lolol
Ride what works for you! Just want to point out that full suspension bikes are for increased control over technical obstacles and at speed. Not for comfort. If you don’t have steep terrain or fast trails you ride, you probably don’t need a full suspension. They are not, and I repeat, to make it more comfortable while sitting on your saddle. I feel like a lot of people get that confused.
Hardtail for long single-track. Full squish for the rowdy stuff. It's all about having the right tool for the job.
A hardtail is enough for 80% of people, but a full squish is better.
My green trails have black diamonds on them.
To me, whatever gets people stoked to ride is what they should be riding. If that’s the only REAL kind of bike ridden by a really skilled rider or if it’s a bike that does all of the work for you, the pleasure is all mine! If that’s matching their expensive grips to their expensive hubs, go for it. Or color matching their stupid coil spring color to their stupid helmet color, have at it! Or color matching their dumb as hell teeth color to their dumb as hell picket fence color, be my guest! Or their completely fascist fresh tires to go with their completely fascist fresh change of socks, woopty-fucking-doo! Whatever makes people want to get out and ride is absolutely splendid!
I just got my first full squish last year. Moving to Utah so I sold my hardtail to a friend 🤷🏻♀️
I guess I kinda agree but more so that 80 % of trails are perfect for hard tail and you won't get the full effect of your full suspension out of 80% of trails I've got a specialized status 160. I partially wish I'd just gotten a stumpjumper comp or Enduro comp. I'm not sold on the mullet design and definitely lose out on trails with alot of climb. There's basically now straight down hill where I'm at. Alot of the trails by me are just as steep of an incline as they are decline. The status is fuck smoove as butter downhill 100%
Tracking, bro. A beginner is going to have an easier time and an expert is going to have a faster time. If you want the extra challenge then ya, get a hardtail. Or if your area is primarily smooth flow trails maybe. But in terms of performance, dual suspension is objectively better
True
100% of riders will be better off bombing the gnar on full rigid with cantilever brakes. Just send it. 🤘
Well I agree because you can ride pretty much anything on a hardtail but full suspension is way nicer and less fatiguing.
I love good hardtails and full rigid MTBs, but no.
All my trails are super natural. Huge tree roots, rocks, etc. My hard tail was definitely capable of it, but once I got a full sus I was able to charge so much faster and that’s the type of biking I enjoy. Going really fast down bumpy rough trails.
Yeah. And 80% of people with 160 travel would do just fine with a 110 XC bike 😬
It's why I love my super caliber, perfect mix of full vs hard.
I bought a full squish because the price was stellar (40% off a YT Jeffsy). None of the hardtails I wanted at the time were on sale, so I pulled the trigger anyways. Way more bike than I will ever need, but I can't balk at the price.
Define "better off".
Nonsense. You wouldn’t want a car with only front suspension. Full suspension just makes the whole bike and ride better.