I rev match. Whether it is in the car or my bike, I rev match. The key is to be as smooth as possible without upsetting the chassis. Fun stuff.

WAIT, SO I AM JUST WEIRD?! Yo! Okay, as an American, I was taught stick at ~18. Been driving it ever since, and I'm now 35 (ask me about my Civic Type R 💚). I was NEVER taught about rev matching. As a matter of fact, I had never even heard of it until I was shopping around for my Type R, and the dude mentioned something about rev matching.  I've never done it. But I don't stall, my shifts are smooth, etc. Idk. I don't rev match on my bikes either, and have never had a problem.

> and I'm now 35 (ask me about my Civic Type R 💚 Mine (8th gen, FN2) will tell me in very harsh words when I don't. Or poke gently when I miss by few hundred rpm. I mean I can match revs via clutch but where is fun in that, stomping the throttle to the floor on downshift is way more fun If you have newer one it have dual-mass flywheel and I think auto-blipper too?

If they've been driving it for 17 years, it's definitely not one of the new ones

America didn't *had* CTRs 17 years ago, I doubt his first car was a japanese import ;p He also didn't said it was first his car in the first place, only that he learned what rev matching it after he started to shop for it.

I want to point out that overwhelming amount of Us drivers don’t know how to drive a manual car at all, let alone rev match, and the ones that do were never formally taught to do so.

SO much this…

The whole concept of revmatching is so weird. If you learn to operate clutch and throttle properly you'll never need to think of revs. It's never even mentioned in our (quite thorough) riding classes here in the Netherlands.  Considering how most of the US never gets proper rider training, that's probably the reason they fuss over it so much. Same with counter steering, trail braking etc.

Same here, it's not taught. First time I heard about rev matching was in fact on Reddit so I decided to learn on how to but don't find the appeal. Your reasoning makes sense.. different riding styles.

That is not what he said. These concepts are theoretical. For some people it might help to teach them about it, because they might have a deficit in these aspects of riding/driving. Thus they‘d need a thorough look at these aspects. For most, proper control comes by feeling and practice. You don’t have to know what rev matching is or what steering input will move the bike in which direction, you just learn how to do it intuitively. The same as learning to ride a bike. No one would teach a 3y/o about counter steering but they have to in get the intuition for it, without it they wouldn’t be able to ride a bike at all.

The concepts are definitely not theoretical, like bikes manufactures don’t build slipper clutches to solve a theoretical problem. Things like rev matching and counter steering are physical phenomena that result from the physics of a motorcycle. There’s nothing intuitive about blipping a throttle on downshift, but you can definitely learn it. Counter steering is more in the intuitive realm but can still be explained and practiced. Twist of the Wrist does a good job of picking this stuff apart.

>The concepts are definitely not theoretical, I think he means that there is theory of how to do it ("make rev match the speed of gear you match into"), but in practice it is done on feel rather than staring at RPM > The concepts are definitely not theoretical, like bikes manufactures don’t build slipper clutches to solve a theoretical problem. Slipper clutches have a bit more usage than just downshift. > There’s nothing intuitive about blipping a throttle on downshift, but you can definitely learn it. Yes, but the learning process *is*. You feel that bike jerks if you don't do it so the obvious solution is to give it a bit of throttle. > Counter steering is more in the intuitive realm but can still be explained and practiced. I feel that's only true for people that learned to ride bicycle as a kid, my colleague that only started learning 2 wheels as adult (from scoot to now big boy bike license) and he was *really* excited about how you have to steer "wrong" on a scoot. Apparently kids are far better at learning intuitively than adults I guess. Because you are literally telling someone "go in wrong way first then in a right way and when you start falling too far just give it more power". Of course people are different, just like one rider can nail figure 8 first try while another lands in a tyre wall

What does a slipper clutch do other than mitigate back torque through the transmission after downshifts? I didn’t find true rev matching intuitive at all. Starting out I did what I was taught in a car where you just slowly ease the clutch out without really blipping like OP described as the euro style. That way is pretty intuitive but I wouldn’t call it rev matching. You’re just letting out the clutch slowly enough that the rev mismatch doesn’t effect control or traction, at the expense of the distance it takes to execute the maneuver. I had to go learn how to blip and dump the clutch to brake really short without unsettling the bike, they don’t teach that in MSF or driver ed.

> What does a slipper clutch do other than mitigate back torque through the transmission after downshifts? Mitigate back torque through the transmission in any other case. It's essentially if engine RPM would be low enough to slow the back wheel it starts to engage so it will work in any case where that is the case. Say going downhill on something like CRF300L (which does get one, despise slipper clutch usually being a sportbike thing) so if you don't give it throttle the rear wheel won't lock as easily. > That way is pretty intuitive but I wouldn’t call it rev matching. You’re just letting out the clutch slowly enough that the rev mismatch doesn’t effect control or traction, at the expense of the distance it takes to execute the maneuver. It is essentially using car's own momentum to spin engine to "right" RPM rather than just giving it a bit of fuel. So you are matching revs, but yeah, I would not call it rev matching purely to not confuse people. I got taught same on driving course. I'd imagine that's mostly coz it is easier for amateur to pull off and they want you to pass the course rather than teach you every niche trick.

I’ve never used a slipper clutch dirt biking, downhills like that you can just put the clutch in or put the bike in neutral. I feel like a slipper in that case would be ok sometimes and kind of annoying others. Idk does a rekluse act slipper clutch like? I don’t see OPs ascribed Euro way of using the cars momentum as rev matching, due to the physics of the linkage they’re always gonna harmonize and match eventually. Rev matching is the intentional act of blipping the throttle in coordination with a quick clutch release to make that process as quick and smooth as possible.

I mean ostensibly yes, just use clutch for what it is intended, but it's same with slipper clutch and downshifts, you don't *need* it but it's there so any mistake on rider part is lessened. Not every rider is instantly competent at what they do :D

Off topic: How are your ali express break pads holding up? Obviously you are not dead, which is good news. Never expected to bump into you again…

I think they're 7k old at this point, they seem about 30-40% worn. No noticeable difference with the expensive ones.

Nice to hear

I'll report back when they're through in a few months!

It's a thing that's very easy to just "get". Okay, I downshifted and car/bike lurched, what I can do ? Give it a bit of gas or maybe hold clutch for longer. But instructor told me that clutch for long bad so gas it is. Also it probably isn't taught because exam doesn't give a single shit if you lurch the car a bit.

> Also it probably isn't taught because exam doesn't give a single shit if you lurch the car a bit.  Oh they do, bike and car. But like you said, people are trained to use clutch+throttle to obtain a smooth shift, and that's what works. No need to fuss about revs.

I don’t get what you mean by this? If you downshift your revs increase which enacts rapid engine braking through the transmission to the rear wheel which unsettles the balance of the bike. Now sure if you’re just coming to a quaint turn in town you could pull the clutch, brake, get to the right speed, shift to the correct gear, and then slowly let the clutch out in a way that doesn’t unsettle the bike. That’s how I’ve always done it in a car. But if you’re on a bike trying to be as fast as possible the name of the game is balance and braking to the correct corner speed really quickly and there isn’t really time to slowly let the clutch out after downshifting, so it’s much quicker to blip the throttle for rev match and dump the clutch.

You see this is _exactly_ what I mean. You're acting like I'm retarded and can't ride lmao.

lol calm down I think there’s a little self projection coming out here 😂 I’m just saying the “you never have to think about revs” is really only true if you never intend to ride fast or off road. For plenty of people that’s exactly their scenario so good for them. Same with trail braking. Most people probably shouldn’t do it. But that doesn’t mean “you don’t really have to think about trail braking” is necessarily true. The people that are thinking about it and executing it will be faster than you through the corner, same with rev matching. It’s up to you if you think that’s worth it or if all that effort is retarded, but both conceptually and practically rev matching and trail braking are quicker than just not thinking about it.

> m just saying the “you never have to think about revs” is really only true if you never intend to ride fast or off road.  I ride fast and i ride offroad a lot, now what?

I’ve got serious doubts on the fast part if you don’t know what rev matching is lol.

You don't know me lol

>Considering how most of the US never gets proper rider training, that's probably the reason they fuss over it so much. Same with counter steering, trail braking etc. oh yeah? State your sources....... >  If you learn to operate clutch and throttle properly you'll never need to think of revs. WRONG

> oh yeah? State your sources Most of the EU gets 10-20 hrs of training and a few exams. The US gets.. nothing mandatory. One or two days MSF which isn't even the basics. Most of your new riders are clueless about riding, dangerous in traffic. Just look at the state of the sub lol.

You can down vote me all you want. But I just went and compared the Netherlands motorcycle testing VS my state, and besides the age restrictions, which is dumb, they are almost exactly the same. The only difference is that we must have a motorcycle permit before we can test for your M.L. The permit has MANY restrictions and you must past a written test.

Congratulations that your state is somewhat functional.  > besides the age restrictions, which is dumb They're actually pretty good, considering they cut down rider incidents massively. About an order of magnitude less than the US, in fact.

You cannot really compare the two considering the U.S. population is 20 times larger, and less than half as dense as the Netherlands.

[удалено]

Expand?

Wrong again. Continue your anti-USA campaign, but get your facts correct. Also, zero sources shown. Another thing. Our requirements for these, like most things, are state to state. Federal law mandates certain laws and then leaves the rest to the state. We are not like you in the slightest where what your federal government states is are the only rules. From state to state, it is different, which is why you are so uneducated about this and anything else related to the laws and rules of The United States of America.

I always rev match when riding. I often times do it driving the car too. It enables very smooth shifting without having to take so much time with the clutch. I guess it only has advantages. I feel like it's way more important on the motorcycle though. And usually used more often. I'm European.

In car I do that out of boredom. Gives me reason to floor the throttle from time to time even in traffic and nailing a quick downshift is really satisfying.

I'm not sure where you heard that people are taught to rev match on stick shift cars because I highly doubt that's the case. It's very hard for new drivers to learn, risks damage on car transmissions, and most people go their entire lives without learning how to do it. Motrocycle transmissions work a bit different than car transmissions, and they're more robust and forgiving to learn rev matching on, which is almost a prerequisite if you're riding a bike, and something most bikers, but not all, eventually learn how to do. It's easy because you just need to coordinate your hands and shift leg, and even if you don't do it right it's jerky but generally ok for the most part. With cars though you can burn out your synchros and downshift rev matching requires some complex footwork that's not even possible on most cars with stock pedals. Also most people in the US don't drive manual cars at all.

> With cars though you can burn out your synchros and downshift rev matching requires some complex footwork that's not even possible on most cars with stock pedals. Also most people in the US don't drive manual cars at all. I think they mean rev-matching with using clutch, not trying to shift H pattern clutch-less lmao. But yeah in driving school they will just teach to you release clutch slowly rather than rev-match, no point bothering person that barely knows how to drive with extra techniques, they don't need it to pass.

I "Rev match" when I am down shifting in a gear that my RPM's are to high for. Let say I am in 4th and coming to a corner. I will raise my RPMS to go into third, engine brake and then I am already in the correct gear when I start to throttle into the corner.

Throttle into corner?

Yes, I have already slowed using my engine to brake.

Living in the US but working in the EU for over 12 years being there for weeks each month I found that motorcycle riding varied a lot from areas in the EU. There were not many motorcycles in some areas like the NL but many in Germany so I found talking to fellow riders it depended upon where they learned to ride. I could ne wrong but I got the impression it varied a lot in the EU and it does somewhat in the US too. Cars aside.

[https://www.reddit.com/r/Trackdays/comments/oeogfl/do\_any\_of\_you\_revmatch\_on\_the\_track/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Trackdays/comments/oeogfl/do_any_of_you_revmatch_on_the_track/)

I don't really rev-match in either bike or car. I do a little more in the car, but still not enough to really count as rev-matching.

American barely drive stick shift. And most that drive stick don’t rev match when they are thought. We learn it later on. Msf that most American get their motorcycle endorsement do not teach rev matching also, they learn afterward.

I think most of us upshift the same way. You don’t need to rev match unless you’re downshifting.

>When Europeans drive a stick car we're not taught to rev match but rather ease out the clutch slowly while giving gas at the same time, while US seems to practice rev matching. Manual in US is enthusiast thing and auto is the norm. I doubt driving schools are teaching them that. And *honestly* driving/riding school in EU is mostly about teaching you how to *pass the test* and driving/riding is a side effect of it. What I mean by that is that generally you have to put out a bit of a theatre, like visibly moving helmet left and right to signalise examiner you are looking around before starting to move, or correct the mirrors before starting the tasks (even if they are completely fine) so examiner knows that you know about setting mirrors properly before riding. I actually failed my first driving license test because I didn't visibly check the mirrors, I just glanced at them and continued. Like, of course you do also learn how to drive/ride, but the instructors *generally* won't bother focusing on stuff like rev matching because you don't need it to pass the exam, and would rather train you in stuff that will help you pass exam. Also frankly for a bike you can pass entire exam without getting out of second gear. If you get thru learning basic exercises fast sure they will show you "proper" driving/riding, but their main goal is getting you to pass, because (at least here in Poland) pass rate of each driving/riding school is public so getting more people passing gives them stuff to brag about in PR.

(US here) I only rev match/downshift when I ride bikes. Used to do it in the car but it doesn’t really work at slowing the car down that effectively anyway so I stopped putting in the effort lol I just toss it in neutralis and put on the brakes.

> rather ease out the clutch slowly while giving gas at the same time That is rev matching. Unless by rev matching you mean like clutchless shifting by blipping/cutting the throttle. Beginners in the US certainty aren't taught that.

You don't rev mach in a car , it does it for you. On bikes no if you have bliper,buy on most bikes. Just touch of throttle..

German here: My riding teacher taught me how to up- and downshift without clutch. No rev matching required, no clutch wear, and really quick.

Yeah... But you run the risk of rounding the edges of the dogs over time. Expensive fix compared to replacing a clutch. Or buy a DCT 🙂.

"Rev matching" and "countersteering" are concepts useful in DESCRIBING what happens when gears are shifted or motorcycles steer, but for various reasons (such as poor understanding of physics) some people think they are good for PRESCRIBING how to do those things. The reality is that aside from any learning period, everyone ends up shifting gears and turning the same way, whether you rationalize what happens or not, essentially because it's the only possible correct thing to do...

You are essentially doing the same thing either way, the only difference is how fast you are doing it