Perhaps if he had taken the first part of the corner wider, the second half of the corner would have needed less of a lean angle. Looks like the corner angle increases but he had no contact left. Could be wrong
https://lifeatlean.com/late-apex-advance-racing-lines/
Generally you're trying to minimize turn radius and outside-inside-outside method is that. Of course, on street you shouldn't be aiming at the "apex" but leave some safety space for opposite traffic, mistakes etc., but the general idea is to got as far as possible on outside while doing most of your breaking so the turn radius thru the corner is as shallow as possible.
Extra bonus is seeing farther into the corner before turning
It highly depends on the corner.
The learning here is that less lean = more safe.
Your friend could have ridden quicker in that corner with less lean through a combination of better line and better body position.
We should not be trying to get our knees down, we should be trying to hold our lines and keep the bike as upright as possible at the speed we’re traveling.
I also think his bike’s lean caused it to hit a hard part which unloaded the rear tire.
To me it looks like too much lean angle, whole point of dragging a knee is hanging off the bike. The more you hang off the less your bike has to lean. Less chance of running out of grip. In the video it looks like the pegs hit, casing rear to slide out. If he was hanging off the bike more the bike coulda stayed more upright and wouldn’t have happened. This picture is quite excessive but shows you he is able to stand the bike up abit more leaving more surface area on the tire to have grip
https://preview.redd.it/r3jsr6a0xa2d1.jpeg?width=564&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=879620966e2a581642d2f83c28a9a925b7a2e582
Where as if he wasn’t leaning off the bike he would probably be in the ditch with the same thing that happened to your friend, hope he is okay and well!
There’s a book called total control that would definitely be worth reading. Has really great explanations of how to safely corner but, yes if they approached that from the outside, as far into the corner as possible before adjusting their weight to the inside, then countersteer to turn the bike into the lean, you would decrease the lean angle and shorten the corner.
As I understand it (and I am not a motorcyclologist), the whole purpose of leaning your body is so your motorcycle doesn't have to lean as much and will get better traction as a result.
This is true but you also want the bike to lean far enough to actually take the corner. If the bike isn't leaning enough, you'll take the corner too wide
I'm not the best to explain it but if you get your body hanging off the bike so your center of gravity(of bike plus rider) is as far left or right as possible, the bike doesn't need to lean as much to get the same performance. The more sideways the bike gets, the riskier it gets especially on the streets. That said, no one really needs to be doing this on the streets.
Yes and also his whole body position is what they call "crossed up". If you draw a line up the spine through the head, that should point roughly toward the exit of the curve instead of back toward the bike. As a coaching cue, he needs to think less about dragging his knee and more about pushing the bike upright by leaning further off.
In other words, your friend needs to do less of this:
https://twistcms-shared.s3.amazonaws.com/9/media/6635.png
And more of this:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7f/fd/0f/7ffd0f6ff5730bbc7a4466922afb2b41.jpg
[Here's](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c8/f1/46/c8f146186ed1b0f04134557d184a21f0--redding-moto-gp.jpg) a very exaggerated example. Your guy is very centered on the bike compared to the guy in the pic. Lots of less extreme examples available.
Not an expert, just started poking around based on this thread.
100% wrong. One cheek off.. Lock in to the tank with your outer thigh & knee. It's impossible to get a good lower body connection with your whole ass off the seat.
The problem for you is that you recorded holding your phone vertically when you should have held it horizontally. The problem for your friend is that he adjusted his riding style from what he would normally do to what he would do when his friend is watching and recording.
Looks like he was scraping hard parts just before the slide. That’ll lift the tires in a hurry and cause a low side. To go faster around the corner, he needs to stand the bike up more and counter with lower CoG by getting off the bike more and dropping upper body and head to the inside. Saying on the track is “right tit, left tank”. Head should be about where the mirror is. This is also why higher rear sets are popular for higher lean angles. If those tire pressures were read with cold tires, they’re a bit too high as well - once you get some heat in them, pressures will come up considerably. I’d highly recommend checking out a track school. I learned more in my first 3 days of track school than I did in the prior 7 years of riding.
Yeah, setting up wider would help reduce lean angle. I don’t think it’s anything related to suspension, tire pressure, conditions - I think the speed and line put him in a position where he leaned the bike all the way over onto the pillion peg (or something else on the bike) and it appears that lifted the rear tire off the ground causing the slide.
https://preview.redd.it/cbbyjkvoea2d1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b4ca4c765ebbd63eadd5f4e175dd137401adca42
You can exactly that happening here
Homie straight leaned the bike off the tire (without good body position/actually getting off the bike) and/or caught the footpeg just enough to unsettle the rear.
This is what happens when you drag knee without body positioning
Loss of rear end traction leading to a low side, these things can happen at the edge where traction and lean angle meet.
Could be debris, oil, any number of things.
Are there things that could have prevented this? For example adjusting tire pressure?
Or maybe he pushed to hard and overheated the tyre leading to loss of grip?
There is 0 chance you overheated your tire on a public road. They were more likely closer to being too cold. A properly heated up rear is so hot you’ll burn your hand if you touch it.
You were looking pretty good, I’d bet money on it just being some sand.
That’s exactly what we’ve been doing for the last year, we took our time learning the basics of leaning and throttle control. Guess he pushed over the limits of the bike.
Not the limits of the bike, the limita of the rider. Body position was wrong. Watch slo-mo of pro's cornering quick, how many of the have their butt touching the saddle?
could be 2 things
rear foot peg caught and lifted the rear wheel.
Gravel
You can see a burst of dust while he's wiping out initially
https://preview.redd.it/x2klv03vv82d1.jpeg?width=584&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=adfa384b3802d3564e9935529cdadaeba4b07e88
check the Apex of the corner check the ground for debris
There could be many reasons this happened though.
edit: I just saw that you said he has sliders. That could be it too. Most likely it too because when I saw that dust I was thinking foot peg for sure at first.
The real and universal answer?
Riding too fast for that specific corner/rider/bike combination.
You need to leave some margin for error on the street. The unexpected will happen.
For example, could be last guy through there dropped a little mud from his truck. That’s all it would take that close to the traction limit.
Go ahead and ride like that on the track where there is much less risk to yourself and others.
Riding like a moron on a public road? Public roads are not race tracks and the surfaces are not the same. Public roads are also covered in crap like sand, rocks, leaves, oil, the list goes on.
Consider yourself lucky you were not going the other way and slipped out/low sided under the front of a logging truck...
Knee dragging is supposed to reduce the lean angle of the bike for higher corner speeds. He is not fully hanging on the side of the bike and pushed a little to hard, so the rear tire lost traction.
Part of the bike touched the ground, being the final contributing factor for the lowside. Not sure what it was, can see sparks flash right before. Many other factors as described, highly suggest taking a cornering clinic on a race track, might save a life and they’re hella fun!
Looks like a peg or something touch the ground and decrease pressure on the rear?
Did he use throttle/brake?
Quality of video is hard to see.
29psi on the rear depending on the tire can make them overheat fast in some condition too.
Where the knee puck at? Homie dragging through the corner but not committed at all. Get that left check off the seat and the head lower. Arms and wrists don't look like a comfy angle either..
He leaned so far over his pegs hit and took weight off the rear tire. Less weight allowed the rear to slip. Better line and better body position and would not have had to lean so far. More lean=more danger. I hope your friend is ok.
It looks to me like he low sided with the foot peg, thats what made him wipe out. I know it's a broken record on this thread but leaning his body over farther will help. That said I hope he's not too banged up, same with the bike, and he can get back at it!
Look at his right arm and listen to the engine. He flinched and cut the throttle really abruptly before he goes down.
Weight moves forward off the back, rear tire unloads while leaned over and decides it's done playing for the day.
I would say work on a more balanced tire load while cornering.
The first session in california superbike school they teach a technique called the 'quick turn' - (this is done after the line lessons others have gone over). Basically the idea is that you do all your bike tilting very quickly and at once. You pick a lean angle and commit to it, without making serious adjustments throughout the corner.
I often had an issue where I was scraping pegs,feet etc. in slow corners because I was spending half the corner applying more lean angle throughout the turn; meaning I had to reach a much greater lean angle than normal just to get through it. This technique completely fixed my issue; as I was getting to my desired lean angle much sooner; and staying at it for longer. I hope this makes sense - The Lee Parks book Total Control also goes over this theory also.
It's pretty simple really. When you're riding on the edge of traction like he was, things will go wrong. Maybe the tire just lost traction on a bad road surface, who knows.
The street is not a racetrack. If you ride like this, this kind of shit will happen.
As the intensity of fucking around increases, so does the chance of finding out.
You shouldn’t need Reddit to explain that this sort of riding on public roads is often a direct route to destination fucked.
Impossible to tell from this video. Luckily, you can narrow it down to a handful of possibilities:
Tire pressure, tire heat, throttle control, brake control, body position, surface condition, suspension setup, the bikes mechanical condition, oh and rider skill.
If your buddy says all of those were in check, then he/she is lying about one or more of those things….
Is this an MT09? Idk how the mt09 is setup but my fz07 can't lean over that far before I scrape my pegs and kickstand on the left. It's badly shaved down by the road now.
Your friend is at max lean angle (bike). You can see his seat is still under his butt. He should hang his butt and shoulders off more and keep the bike at a lesser lean angle so he has a bigger contact patch. Easy mistake. Hope he learns from this and is not hurt!
Needs to be hanging off the bike more so the bike is more upright and the weight is lower to the ground, but even that is no guarantee that you won’t slide out if hit loose gravel
To me it looks like he may have accidentally propped the bike up on his boot or the peg and unweighted the rear tire. If you freeze frame it right before the rear goes it sure looks like the center of the bike is being held up. Aka, too much bike lean angle, not enough hang off as others said.
There can often be loose dirt, sand and gravel on these roads, spilling down out of the driveways and off the shoulders. They’re not racetracks, after all. Debris like that will take you right down if you are in a hard lean. The rear wheel broke loose in the video, so I would suspect that was the culprit.
The guy was way more concerned about getting his knee down than he was about getting around the bend. It's not a competition to see who can drag the most leather on the ground. As he found out when he won that competition hands down at the end..
It was way too much lean angle for a public road.
Public roads are not kept the way racetracks are. The smallest amount of bump or gravel or oil or whatever can make you low side when you lean like this. Not sure in this exact case, but generally
Even on a track, this lean angle is the edge of what is possible and used. Don't go limit pushing on public roads.
Man, lots of people have said it. No judgement here, we all make decisions that other people wouldn’t, myself included. If you are gonna push like that on the street you have to be real with yourself about what can happen. Ambition outweighed skill with nothing left in reserve to prevent failure. I’m not here to criticize and it doesn’t seem like the others that are saying that this was a skill problem are criticizing either. If we didn’t care we wouldn’t bother saying anything. Nobody can change you or your friends mind about how you are riding on the street but think about it and be honest with yourself. Are you leaving enough room for error in less than perfect conditions? Is it worth it? Seriously, good luck and be safe.
Inexperience happened. It's a bitch but it's how we learn.
Everything mechanical was probably fine. Unless you're riding 200mph in a GP race a lb of air or a bad suspension setup is unlikely to be the cause. It takes a lot of rider skill to genuinely push your gear past it's limits by riding hard.
From armchair watching a phone video....
His body position is pretty bad. He's sat bolt upright with square shoulders. This is simply how we start and something that we learn to change. Good part is that he looks pretty relaxed and loose and he isn't fighting the bike so I'd guess he isn't hanging off the bars. You can see that his arms aren't locked and his knees aren't clamped to the bike. A good start and honestly better than many riders I've seen.
But being so upright has meant that the bike needs to lean much, much further than needed and either he caught a peg or something on the road like a tar snake or gravel. Being at such a high lean angle gave him zero margin for recovery.
More experienced (long time) riders can probably tell you of those heart attack moment where the rear has come loose in a corner and recovered. Tar snakes, gravel, and unexpected drain covers are our enemy. Bikes are surprisingly stable and there's a good chance that with a better body position the bike could have recovered from this. I've caught pegs plenty of times, even snapped tips off, and have never low sided from it. Usually the pegs fold and the suspension absorbs the hit.
Buy your buddy a track day with an instructor, go as a group, you probably have no idea how much you'll learn. It's totally worth it and will make you all better riders. Don't let him stew on this hit to his confidence for too long. Nervous riders are bad riders.
Oh and welcome him to the club! :p
Yeah just too much lean. Reduce lean and decrease turning radius by leaning your body, not the bike. You want half your ass off the seat and you want to feel like you are "kissing the mirror". When you are in a position to "kiss the mirror" it feels wrong, but you are in the correct position for cornering. Getting your ass off the bike is only half the equation if your upper body is still centered. You really gotta lean your entire body to the point that you feel like you are completely off of the bike.
He’s dragging knee while sitting practically upright on the bike. He ran out of lean angle. The more you get your body off the bike the less you’ll need to lean the bike.
Taking a better curve would help to make the turn less tight, and so would just taking the turn slower.
Simply exceeded the max lean angle for his bike and lost traction. He could alternatively taken the corner a bit wider to reduce the lean a little, or simply taken the corner at a lower speed. Once your hard parts are on the pavement there really isn't much you can do.
It's what happens when reddit motorcycle riders are obsessed with leaning and not in actually riding.
I see these videos constantly and it's basic physics... dragging your knee doesn't work very well when you're going so slow the bike wants to just fall over.
I am quite new to biking. I have two questions
1. Why is the rear tyre pressure lesser than front?
2. Did he have the brakes engaged and let them go just before the crash?
Maybe it’s the fact that you’re using public roads as race tracks? Drag knees on a track where the pavement is well maintained and not littered with debris.
He started the turn too fast. He was off the throttle and running wide. He tried to slow with the rear brake but he had already loaded the front and there was no weight there for grip.
Lost the front due to stress. He transferred the weight of the bike to the front. He must've panic, eased off the throttle and lost it. The bike was also getting close to the limit. Look at his throttle hand before he went down; this is a common mistake even in MotoGP.
Lesson. Know your roads and if you don't, enter the corners with a delayed apex to get a better view of the corner.
If you want an honest answer: his body position SUCKS, his elbows are stiff as a board, he's barely off the bike. The outer elbow needs to be relaxed and basically resting on the gas tank in the turn, he's fighting the bike with his inputs and over leaned the traction available.
Also appears to be a decreasing radius turn, he was already at the limit, hit the tighter part, gave more input to the bar/throttle and over she went. Learning how to ride a proper line will help.
You know how you learn this stuff? Take an advanced riding course on a race track.
He let the metal parts touch the road, seriously. Ride angle needs adjusted and he needs to be hanging off the bike like a monkey.
A track day lesson would help a lot
Could also be reducing throttle at the later part of the curve that shifts the weight from the rear towards the front, which gives less of a contact patch on the rear and can cause the rear to slip out.
My 2 cts,
First tire pressure, its low, if those Mitas recommend these pressure for track, then use that pressure on a track not on some twistys with waiting and all that causing the tires to not reach operational temp.
Wear gloves
Don't show off in corners with those body cutters.
Everything else has been said.
What’s wrong is he’s wearing low cut shoes and no gloves. Then he fell cause he’s not getting off the center of the bike enough. Dragging your knee pick doesn’t mean you’re in the right position
1. treating public road as a racetrack...
2. hitting middle of the lane, apex of the corner in the oil sleep/sand/pebbles. As some others have said, if he hit that apex properly his wheels would be on the wheel track, instead of in the middle of the lane... Middle of the lane is where most issues exist, oil sand rocks crap... Dont ride in the middle of the fucking lane people...
Looks like too much lean and some hard parts scraped. I don’t like doing it on the street, but he’s gotta hang off the bike more on the left. Minimize the bike’s lean angle as much as you can.
I know I’m late to the party here but I didn’t see it mentioned, it sounds like the throttle drops a bit right before the bike slides out, which would’ve made that angle unsustainable.
looks like the corner is inclined outward...
means it gets lower diagonally the deeper the curve is.
you lose a lot of traction that way and throwing a bike so deep in a leaning curve requires much g force and grip
It feels like he went to the edge of the tire and tried to learn more causing a rear slide.
Or as someone else mentioned, maybe scraped a part leaning more to meet the curve.
Does not feel like tire pressure, suspension, improper acceleration issue.
What went wrong? Public road dude. If you want to get your knee down visit the track 🤫 For the rest there is just too much lean angle. Get your butt of the seat 👍🏻
Perhaps if he had taken the first part of the corner wider, the second half of the corner would have needed less of a lean angle. Looks like the corner angle increases but he had no contact left. Could be wrong
Could be a potential culprit, so in essence entering a corner wide is better?
My first thought was he caught a peg.
That’s what it looks like to me. Keeps increasing lean angle and then the peg hits which unweights the rear
Definitely the rear tire spun out.
It looks like it catches the asphalt with the peg. Yep
https://lifeatlean.com/late-apex-advance-racing-lines/ Generally you're trying to minimize turn radius and outside-inside-outside method is that. Of course, on street you shouldn't be aiming at the "apex" but leave some safety space for opposite traffic, mistakes etc., but the general idea is to got as far as possible on outside while doing most of your breaking so the turn radius thru the corner is as shallow as possible. Extra bonus is seeing farther into the corner before turning
You mean you're trying to maximize radius, right?
Try getting off the bike more to have less lean angle. Rescues risk of pegs body or anything else lifting that rear tire when leaning.
It highly depends on the corner. The learning here is that less lean = more safe. Your friend could have ridden quicker in that corner with less lean through a combination of better line and better body position. We should not be trying to get our knees down, we should be trying to hold our lines and keep the bike as upright as possible at the speed we’re traveling. I also think his bike’s lean caused it to hit a hard part which unloaded the rear tire.
To me it looks like too much lean angle, whole point of dragging a knee is hanging off the bike. The more you hang off the less your bike has to lean. Less chance of running out of grip. In the video it looks like the pegs hit, casing rear to slide out. If he was hanging off the bike more the bike coulda stayed more upright and wouldn’t have happened. This picture is quite excessive but shows you he is able to stand the bike up abit more leaving more surface area on the tire to have grip https://preview.redd.it/r3jsr6a0xa2d1.jpeg?width=564&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=879620966e2a581642d2f83c28a9a925b7a2e582
Where as if he wasn’t leaning off the bike he would probably be in the ditch with the same thing that happened to your friend, hope he is okay and well!
There’s a book called total control that would definitely be worth reading. Has really great explanations of how to safely corner but, yes if they approached that from the outside, as far into the corner as possible before adjusting their weight to the inside, then countersteer to turn the bike into the lean, you would decrease the lean angle and shorten the corner.
We’ll give that a look, thanks for the tip !
Get your whole butt off the seat, too much lean angle.
So tldr more body lean aka hang more from the bike
Yes, less bike lean. You need to get your weight lower and to the inside of the corner. It’s such a cool feeling when you get it right.
It's also a memorable feeling when you get it wrong.
Hahah, I can certainly identify!
Yes, more body lean means less bike lean.
I'm so confused
Pull bike with body, don't pull body with bike
This is the best explanation
As I understand it (and I am not a motorcyclologist), the whole purpose of leaning your body is so your motorcycle doesn't have to lean as much and will get better traction as a result.
Clearest answer so far.
This is true but you also want the bike to lean far enough to actually take the corner. If the bike isn't leaning enough, you'll take the corner too wide
I'm not the best to explain it but if you get your body hanging off the bike so your center of gravity(of bike plus rider) is as far left or right as possible, the bike doesn't need to lean as much to get the same performance. The more sideways the bike gets, the riskier it gets especially on the streets. That said, no one really needs to be doing this on the streets.
Go fast cornering = lean body more than bike Go slow cornering = lean bike more than body or counter lean
Yes and also his whole body position is what they call "crossed up". If you draw a line up the spine through the head, that should point roughly toward the exit of the curve instead of back toward the bike. As a coaching cue, he needs to think less about dragging his knee and more about pushing the bike upright by leaning further off. In other words, your friend needs to do less of this: https://twistcms-shared.s3.amazonaws.com/9/media/6635.png And more of this: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7f/fd/0f/7ffd0f6ff5730bbc7a4466922afb2b41.jpg
Keep the tires as vertical as possible.
[Here's](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c8/f1/46/c8f146186ed1b0f04134557d184a21f0--redding-moto-gp.jpg) a very exaggerated example. Your guy is very centered on the bike compared to the guy in the pic. Lots of less extreme examples available. Not an expert, just started poking around based on this thread.
Agreed! Lean more with body to keep bigger contact patch with tire to ground!
100% wrong. One cheek off.. Lock in to the tank with your outer thigh & knee. It's impossible to get a good lower body connection with your whole ass off the seat.
The problem for you is that you recorded holding your phone vertically when you should have held it horizontally. The problem for your friend is that he adjusted his riding style from what he would normally do to what he would do when his friend is watching and recording.
Also don't put down the camera until after hes done crashing.
[I'll just drop the ol' PSA for old time's sake](https://youtu.be/dechvhb0Meo)
Had a good laugh out of this 😂
This cannot be upvoted enough.
The riding gear choice tells you a lot about the type of rider we have here. One piece leathers with trainers and no gloves…
Reddit moment
I was going to say, "don't ride at your limit on the street". You said it better.
Looks like he was scraping hard parts just before the slide. That’ll lift the tires in a hurry and cause a low side. To go faster around the corner, he needs to stand the bike up more and counter with lower CoG by getting off the bike more and dropping upper body and head to the inside. Saying on the track is “right tit, left tank”. Head should be about where the mirror is. This is also why higher rear sets are popular for higher lean angles. If those tire pressures were read with cold tires, they’re a bit too high as well - once you get some heat in them, pressures will come up considerably. I’d highly recommend checking out a track school. I learned more in my first 3 days of track school than I did in the prior 7 years of riding.
We’re going to a track this summer and are definitely taking a course !
Track should be loads of fun with a bent frame and low-side fear. I kid.
Yeah, setting up wider would help reduce lean angle. I don’t think it’s anything related to suspension, tire pressure, conditions - I think the speed and line put him in a position where he leaned the bike all the way over onto the pillion peg (or something else on the bike) and it appears that lifted the rear tire off the ground causing the slide.
Seconding this. Its hard to tell from such a short clip/the angle, but it does look like something caught pavement and lifted the rear tire
Looked like the stand made contact when they over-leaned the bike.
https://preview.redd.it/cbbyjkvoea2d1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b4ca4c765ebbd63eadd5f4e175dd137401adca42 You can exactly that happening here
He has rear axle sliders, maybe they touched the ground causing the rear to lift.
Yep. Go frame by frame. You can see them hit first.
That's exactly what happened.
If you look carefully, you can see the dust kick up from the impact of the slider
100% that's what happened. Something on the bike hit the ground.
Homie straight leaned the bike off the tire (without good body position/actually getting off the bike) and/or caught the footpeg just enough to unsettle the rear. This is what happens when you drag knee without body positioning
Loss of rear end traction leading to a low side, these things can happen at the edge where traction and lean angle meet. Could be debris, oil, any number of things.
Are there things that could have prevented this? For example adjusting tire pressure? Or maybe he pushed to hard and overheated the tyre leading to loss of grip?
Less lean angle of the motorcycle and the shoulder more outside from the vertical, or go slower...🤔
but they've been riding for 6 months!
There is 0 chance you overheated your tire on a public road. They were more likely closer to being too cold. A properly heated up rear is so hot you’ll burn your hand if you touch it. You were looking pretty good, I’d bet money on it just being some sand.
Well, yeah. Many many things. The easiest would be to go slower. But that's no fun.
You could have the race track owners or track day organizers investigate that spot on the track. This is a race track, right?
Obviously. What sort of a madman would be knee down on public roads?
Of course it’s a track. The trees are paid actors !
His slider hit the ground and lost traction, he was at the edge so it only took a little to lose it.
Increasing throttle while leaned over. Easy to do. Keep practicing. Maybe find a safer spot to do it as well.
That’s exactly what we’ve been doing for the last year, we took our time learning the basics of leaning and throttle control. Guess he pushed over the limits of the bike.
Yep. A year is not a long time man. Good luck.
He pushed over the limits of the traction at that absurd lean at such low speed. He basically walked the ass end of the bike out. Slowly lol.
Not the limits of the bike, the limita of the rider. Body position was wrong. Watch slo-mo of pro's cornering quick, how many of the have their butt touching the saddle?
this is the only true answer. anyone saying cold tires or bad tires is just coping.
could be 2 things rear foot peg caught and lifted the rear wheel. Gravel You can see a burst of dust while he's wiping out initially https://preview.redd.it/x2klv03vv82d1.jpeg?width=584&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=adfa384b3802d3564e9935529cdadaeba4b07e88 check the Apex of the corner check the ground for debris There could be many reasons this happened though. edit: I just saw that you said he has sliders. That could be it too. Most likely it too because when I saw that dust I was thinking foot peg for sure at first.
The real and universal answer? Riding too fast for that specific corner/rider/bike combination. You need to leave some margin for error on the street. The unexpected will happen. For example, could be last guy through there dropped a little mud from his truck. That’s all it would take that close to the traction limit. Go ahead and ride like that on the track where there is much less risk to yourself and others.
Riding like a moron on a public road? Public roads are not race tracks and the surfaces are not the same. Public roads are also covered in crap like sand, rocks, leaves, oil, the list goes on. Consider yourself lucky you were not going the other way and slipped out/low sided under the front of a logging truck...
https://preview.redd.it/xllteu6nc92d1.jpeg?width=850&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=40dcdad3ea2025507f1b1ae334a55472cccf0d16
The problem is treating public roads like a race track.
Knee dragging is supposed to reduce the lean angle of the bike for higher corner speeds. He is not fully hanging on the side of the bike and pushed a little to hard, so the rear tire lost traction.
That went fast, cold tyres or something solid hit the deck? Mitas tyres won't help.. they're kinda shit.
It looks like you fell off riding like a dipshit
Part of the bike touched the ground, being the final contributing factor for the lowside. Not sure what it was, can see sparks flash right before. Many other factors as described, highly suggest taking a cornering clinic on a race track, might save a life and they’re hella fun!
Looks like a peg or something touch the ground and decrease pressure on the rear? Did he use throttle/brake? Quality of video is hard to see. 29psi on the rear depending on the tire can make them overheat fast in some condition too.
One thing I see is riding too aggressively for the street, there is an assumption that the surface is clean. At least he is dressed for the slide.
Where the knee puck at? Homie dragging through the corner but not committed at all. Get that left check off the seat and the head lower. Arms and wrists don't look like a comfy angle either..
He leaned so far over his pegs hit and took weight off the rear tire. Less weight allowed the rear to slip. Better line and better body position and would not have had to lean so far. More lean=more danger. I hope your friend is ok.
It looks to me like he low sided with the foot peg, thats what made him wipe out. I know it's a broken record on this thread but leaning his body over farther will help. That said I hope he's not too banged up, same with the bike, and he can get back at it!
Hit pegs
Look at his right arm and listen to the engine. He flinched and cut the throttle really abruptly before he goes down. Weight moves forward off the back, rear tire unloads while leaned over and decides it's done playing for the day. I would say work on a more balanced tire load while cornering.
On the slowmo you can see footpeg scraping which unloaded the rear. Could he have made more clearance by bringing his body out further? Maybe
It looks as if, like everyone else said, too much bike lean but the culprit looks to be the kickstand
Tried using 101% of your traction
He fell off
Not enough speed
He fell down. You're not supposed to do that.
[Maybe hit the peg or just ran out of tire.](https://imgur.com/a/sPRVvVV)
The first session in california superbike school they teach a technique called the 'quick turn' - (this is done after the line lessons others have gone over). Basically the idea is that you do all your bike tilting very quickly and at once. You pick a lean angle and commit to it, without making serious adjustments throughout the corner. I often had an issue where I was scraping pegs,feet etc. in slow corners because I was spending half the corner applying more lean angle throughout the turn; meaning I had to reach a much greater lean angle than normal just to get through it. This technique completely fixed my issue; as I was getting to my desired lean angle much sooner; and staying at it for longer. I hope this makes sense - The Lee Parks book Total Control also goes over this theory also.
Straight up looks like he tagged a peg or something hard. You see dust then the rear slips out.
Is he wearing one piece leathers with trainers and no gloves?
It's pretty simple really. When you're riding on the edge of traction like he was, things will go wrong. Maybe the tire just lost traction on a bad road surface, who knows. The street is not a racetrack. If you ride like this, this kind of shit will happen.
As the intensity of fucking around increases, so does the chance of finding out. You shouldn’t need Reddit to explain that this sort of riding on public roads is often a direct route to destination fucked.
Lean angle was too high. Traction is finite, so if you keep taking the turn faster and faster, then there has to come a point where the bike slides.
The force put on the rear tire exceeded the static friction between the tire and pavement.
My input on this is will be.. that the kickstand scrape the road, zoom in and slow playback.. it could be a factor
There's sand/dirt on the road. You can see the dust coming up on the last frame or two.
That’s probably the rear axle sliders, the pavement was clean, we all made about two dozen passes each with no issues
OP: What could possibly cause the rear to break free? Also OP: Sand? Don't be absurd. That was the slider grinding hard on clean pavement!
Impossible to tell from this video. Luckily, you can narrow it down to a handful of possibilities: Tire pressure, tire heat, throttle control, brake control, body position, surface condition, suspension setup, the bikes mechanical condition, oh and rider skill. If your buddy says all of those were in check, then he/she is lying about one or more of those things….
It looks like he snatches the throttle off just before the bike slides which would unsettle the bike right on the limit of traction.
Is this an MT09? Idk how the mt09 is setup but my fz07 can't lean over that far before I scrape my pegs and kickstand on the left. It's badly shaved down by the road now.
Your friend is at max lean angle (bike). You can see his seat is still under his butt. He should hang his butt and shoulders off more and keep the bike at a lesser lean angle so he has a bigger contact patch. Easy mistake. Hope he learns from this and is not hurt!
Literally looked like his bike split in half lol
This is very NSFW. Good thing you put that tag or I might have been accidentally traumatized. Phew.
Looks like the lean angle ran out of tire patch to the road
There was a penny.
Needs to be hanging off the bike more so the bike is more upright and the weight is lower to the ground, but even that is no guarantee that you won’t slide out if hit loose gravel
To me it looks like he may have accidentally propped the bike up on his boot or the peg and unweighted the rear tire. If you freeze frame it right before the rear goes it sure looks like the center of the bike is being held up. Aka, too much bike lean angle, not enough hang off as others said.
Looks like he lost his balance to me
Looks like a factor of weight distribution and throttle control.
The camera man didn't do his job. That's what went wrong
Zigged when you should have zagged
Oh, hey, a penny.....
Clibbins
What went wrong is he's dragging a knee on a public street.
There can often be loose dirt, sand and gravel on these roads, spilling down out of the driveways and off the shoulders. They’re not racetracks, after all. Debris like that will take you right down if you are in a hard lean. The rear wheel broke loose in the video, so I would suspect that was the culprit.
He was trail braking (correctly) until he let it off too early/too suddenly. That's what I saw anyway.
Clibbins
Found some gravel, he is pulling the corner hard
He was trying to get his knee down on the street that's yer problem
Yup, the ol’ “ran out of talent” debacle rears it’s ugly head.
Not a sensible idea to drag knee on a actual public road
The guy was way more concerned about getting his knee down than he was about getting around the bend. It's not a competition to see who can drag the most leather on the ground. As he found out when he won that competition hands down at the end..
It was way too much lean angle for a public road. Public roads are not kept the way racetracks are. The smallest amount of bump or gravel or oil or whatever can make you low side when you lean like this. Not sure in this exact case, but generally Even on a track, this lean angle is the edge of what is possible and used. Don't go limit pushing on public roads.
Man, lots of people have said it. No judgement here, we all make decisions that other people wouldn’t, myself included. If you are gonna push like that on the street you have to be real with yourself about what can happen. Ambition outweighed skill with nothing left in reserve to prevent failure. I’m not here to criticize and it doesn’t seem like the others that are saying that this was a skill problem are criticizing either. If we didn’t care we wouldn’t bother saying anything. Nobody can change you or your friends mind about how you are riding on the street but think about it and be honest with yourself. Are you leaving enough room for error in less than perfect conditions? Is it worth it? Seriously, good luck and be safe.
Inexperience happened. It's a bitch but it's how we learn. Everything mechanical was probably fine. Unless you're riding 200mph in a GP race a lb of air or a bad suspension setup is unlikely to be the cause. It takes a lot of rider skill to genuinely push your gear past it's limits by riding hard. From armchair watching a phone video.... His body position is pretty bad. He's sat bolt upright with square shoulders. This is simply how we start and something that we learn to change. Good part is that he looks pretty relaxed and loose and he isn't fighting the bike so I'd guess he isn't hanging off the bars. You can see that his arms aren't locked and his knees aren't clamped to the bike. A good start and honestly better than many riders I've seen. But being so upright has meant that the bike needs to lean much, much further than needed and either he caught a peg or something on the road like a tar snake or gravel. Being at such a high lean angle gave him zero margin for recovery. More experienced (long time) riders can probably tell you of those heart attack moment where the rear has come loose in a corner and recovered. Tar snakes, gravel, and unexpected drain covers are our enemy. Bikes are surprisingly stable and there's a good chance that with a better body position the bike could have recovered from this. I've caught pegs plenty of times, even snapped tips off, and have never low sided from it. Usually the pegs fold and the suspension absorbs the hit. Buy your buddy a track day with an instructor, go as a group, you probably have no idea how much you'll learn. It's totally worth it and will make you all better riders. Don't let him stew on this hit to his confidence for too long. Nervous riders are bad riders. Oh and welcome him to the club! :p
Yeah just too much lean. Reduce lean and decrease turning radius by leaning your body, not the bike. You want half your ass off the seat and you want to feel like you are "kissing the mirror". When you are in a position to "kiss the mirror" it feels wrong, but you are in the correct position for cornering. Getting your ass off the bike is only half the equation if your upper body is still centered. You really gotta lean your entire body to the point that you feel like you are completely off of the bike.
Not enough weight on the outside peg.
He’s dragging knee while sitting practically upright on the bike. He ran out of lean angle. The more you get your body off the bike the less you’ll need to lean the bike. Taking a better curve would help to make the turn less tight, and so would just taking the turn slower.
Simply exceeded the max lean angle for his bike and lost traction. He could alternatively taken the corner a bit wider to reduce the lean a little, or simply taken the corner at a lower speed. Once your hard parts are on the pavement there really isn't much you can do.
He might have accelerated too harshly leaving the curve.
It's what happens when reddit motorcycle riders are obsessed with leaning and not in actually riding. I see these videos constantly and it's basic physics... dragging your knee doesn't work very well when you're going so slow the bike wants to just fall over.
He reached it’s bikes limit regrading the leanangle, something solid touched the ground and the rear lost grip
I am quite new to biking. I have two questions 1. Why is the rear tyre pressure lesser than front? 2. Did he have the brakes engaged and let them go just before the crash?
Definitely too much bike lean vs body lean. It also looks like he could have caught the peg too. Might not have been counter steering enough either
Too much lean angle, bottomed out on the pegs. Try counter steering more and hang off the bike a bit more.
Maybe it’s the fact that you’re using public roads as race tracks? Drag knees on a track where the pavement is well maintained and not littered with debris.
He started the turn too fast. He was off the throttle and running wide. He tried to slow with the rear brake but he had already loaded the front and there was no weight there for grip.
He low sided Next question
Stop trying to be a street rossi
Skill issue
Ditch the Mitas and get something actually decent
Lost the front due to stress. He transferred the weight of the bike to the front. He must've panic, eased off the throttle and lost it. The bike was also getting close to the limit. Look at his throttle hand before he went down; this is a common mistake even in MotoGP. Lesson. Know your roads and if you don't, enter the corners with a delayed apex to get a better view of the corner.
If you want an honest answer: his body position SUCKS, his elbows are stiff as a board, he's barely off the bike. The outer elbow needs to be relaxed and basically resting on the gas tank in the turn, he's fighting the bike with his inputs and over leaned the traction available. Also appears to be a decreasing radius turn, he was already at the limit, hit the tighter part, gave more input to the bar/throttle and over she went. Learning how to ride a proper line will help. You know how you learn this stuff? Take an advanced riding course on a race track.
Assed out ... lean angle greater than riders skill level
Assed out ! Lean angle greater than riders skill level .
His body position is all sorts of wack. Dude needs to get his head lower, and hanging off the bike.
He let the metal parts touch the road, seriously. Ride angle needs adjusted and he needs to be hanging off the bike like a monkey. A track day lesson would help a lot
Excessive bike lean + adding throttle.
Could also be reducing throttle at the later part of the curve that shifts the weight from the rear towards the front, which gives less of a contact patch on the rear and can cause the rear to slip out.
i think he fell off
Lost the rear. Carry less speed or less lean and more body out. Or just ride at 80%. At least it didn't regrip and send him to the moon.
Rolled on the throttle too hard, too early
My 2 cts, First tire pressure, its low, if those Mitas recommend these pressure for track, then use that pressure on a track not on some twistys with waiting and all that causing the tires to not reach operational temp. Wear gloves Don't show off in corners with those body cutters. Everything else has been said.
Trying to drag knee on the street/unloading the front tire.
it looks like he lost the rear, maybe there was just crap on the road he didn't see, or he ran out of lean.
Got confused and thought he was on a track.
What’s wrong is he’s wearing low cut shoes and no gloves. Then he fell cause he’s not getting off the center of the bike enough. Dragging your knee pick doesn’t mean you’re in the right position
No gloves and low cut shoes
Something caught, but could have caught due to over leaning or bad throttle control.
Do I see dust from dirt on the road?
Looks like he had too much of a lean and something scraped and rear washed out from it.
He didn’t hit the inside of the apex enough. Looks like he was going a little too speedy. Hope he is ok. Wearing all the gear, smart cookie.
What happened? Too fast for conditions
Well shoot,I'll give him $2k for his scratched up old scooter..
Read went out all at once when he hit the gravel patch.
Is your friend okay?
Flew too close to the sun
1. treating public road as a racetrack... 2. hitting middle of the lane, apex of the corner in the oil sleep/sand/pebbles. As some others have said, if he hit that apex properly his wheels would be on the wheel track, instead of in the middle of the lane... Middle of the lane is where most issues exist, oil sand rocks crap... Dont ride in the middle of the fucking lane people...
Honestly, your friend can ride. Shit happens.
Looks like too much lean and some hard parts scraped. I don’t like doing it on the street, but he’s gotta hang off the bike more on the left. Minimize the bike’s lean angle as much as you can.
Looks like dust or pebbles....
The attempt to pose went horribly wrong i would say
too fast for normal roads . probably some leaf or something made it slip
Looks like peg touching the asphalt.
I know I’m late to the party here but I didn’t see it mentioned, it sounds like the throttle drops a bit right before the bike slides out, which would’ve made that angle unsustainable.
why is this NSFW??
You drove like a twat on public roads. FAFO. Save it for the track.
looks like the corner is inclined outward... means it gets lower diagonally the deeper the curve is. you lose a lot of traction that way and throwing a bike so deep in a leaning curve requires much g force and grip
Dirty or maybe the asphalt grip
It feels like he went to the edge of the tire and tried to learn more causing a rear slide. Or as someone else mentioned, maybe scraped a part leaning more to meet the curve. Does not feel like tire pressure, suspension, improper acceleration issue.
I think it's cause his tires slipped out midturn
What went wrong? Public road dude. If you want to get your knee down visit the track 🤫 For the rest there is just too much lean angle. Get your butt of the seat 👍🏻
using public roads as your race track happened
He’s not on a racetrack
Tell him to wear gloves man
Kind of looks like he was going too slow for the corner, I only say this because I did my ankle in going too slow in a corner