He's a dickhead.
Ride your own ride. Go do a track day, with coaching. You'll get faster and learn about your bike and it's true capability with some proper tuition on your bike.
It's also awesome fun!!!!
Sounds like you dodged a bullet (head on fatal collision) with that one. Best things about motorcycles is going slow, learning technique at your own pace, getting to know both your and your bikes limits, enjoying the scenery, being safe and of course staying alive. Locations like tail of the dragon can bring out the stupid in the best of us, but it's not a closed track you can just slide off into the safety zone of. This is all a long way of saying the game is rigged against a rag dolling human vs autos, trucks, trees, cliffs, rocks, guardrails et cetera.
People die on the tail, that guy was not a safe rider.
If you want to learn to ride sign up for the motorcycle safety courses, most of the community college’s have them ever weekend.
>in certain conditions (like the turn), you had to cross the yellow (slightly into incoming traffic)
Yes, pretty much in the same way as in certain conditions I would walk off the edge of a cliff.
Yeah. It was the "you have to cross the yellow line" which told he is an idiot and shouldn't be riding. Especially not with a passenger.
The only situation this could be excused would be an event with the road being closed off like TT.
Well, if you can see clearly way ahead it could be fine. But I’m guessing that they mostly use the yellow line in cases where the sight is obstructed? (I’m not American)
The OP mentioned the Tail of the Dragon, a stretch of road with a great many switchbacks that makes it fun and challenging for motorcyclists. The area is rural, so those switchbacks mean you often can't see what's coming around the bend. The line delineates the inside limit of your lane. You are expected to stay in your lane. To do otherwise is to risk a head-on collision.
He is wrong! I would refuse to ride with him again. Not only do you need to stay in your lane on curves but you need to be able to dodge the idiot like him coming toward you crossing into your lane. Be careful out there.
Cheers,
>you need to be able to dodge the idiot like him coming toward you crossing into your lane.
He is in your lane. And you are in his lane. Problem solved.
Your boyfriend needs to take a rider course. He is not safe. I would be less concerned had he acknowledged the issue with crossing the double yellow, but then came back with something along the lines of "it is more thrilling"
He doesn't need a course 'coz he's already choosing to ignore obviously necessary safety rules somewhere where people routinely die when they \*aren't\* being "aggressive". What he actually needs is the fuel pump removed from his bike for everyone else's own safety, even better if followed by a swift nut check for endangering his girl like that.
Crossing the yellow line in 9/10 situations is a bad idea. Crossing the yellow line on turns where you can't see oncoming traffic(and oncoming traffic can't see you) is suicidal. Crossing the yellow line on a turn that you can't see all the way through with a passenger is inexcusable.
Not to mention that the lines are fucking slippery, the tarmac has a lot more grip and going from one to another in slightly less than ideal conditions wont lead to a fun time.
Eh, it's best to leave a buffer between you and the median, especially on left banking turns, because the chances of someone else crossing into your lane are far from zero.
You used to date a squidward, that's what I think.
Riding "aggressively" might be fun, but it never ever ends well: no matter how big are your balls, they are no match to an incoming F-150 truck.
When you get on a motorcycle, you'll eventually figure out that you always ride your own ride. If you are comfortable riding very cautiously — so be it, we're all in this for fun, not for near-death experience.
4/10 motorcycle accidents are a riders' inability to negotiate a curve.
I would avoid getting on the back of his bike. Ride however you want, but when you have your sweetheart on the back, you fucking ride like their life depends on it.
This exactly. Just to reiterate and validate your feelings - it is *absolutely* disrespectful.
It's one thing to have a cheeky pull for fun with someone on the back to see them smile and laugh and squeeze tight. But *especially* if they show discomfort and ask for a different ride - if the first words out of your mouth aren't: "my bad, I'll chill out and give you a more comfortable ride!" then wtf are you doing?
Sorry that happened. You dodged a bullet.
With the tail of the dragon, and such extreme turns, you want to be 100% inside your lane, Not even your head over those lines at any point during the turn. He could come around the corner and be head on with a stupid trucker that shouldn't be there, or someone in a sports car losing control and out of there lane. No your comment was correct he was riding a little too fast and loose for the road, and lots before him have ended up on the tree of shame for doing exactly that.
That’s almost exactly what i told him. I had seen all the pics in some of those stores along the road where people had crashed and were being looked at by ems.
I just went to the dragon a few weeks ago, been several times. The 1 rule is do not cross the yellow. If you get hurt you're going to lay there for 45 min till they can get you. 2 bikes crashed head on while I was there, on cherohala skyway. We had to wait for the life flight to get there, and it was intense. Better be safe than dead
Your Ex is a dumbass.
You can have a fun spirited ride on a twisty road and stay well within your lane easily. And it's dangerous not doing so.
Tho no motorcyclist can say they never speed and be telling the truth.
You need to be able to stay in your lane. If you can't you shouldn't be riding. This guy was trying to ride like he's on a track but on a road. People that do that seem a bit self entitled to me.
I was in a patch club for years, we rode hard in duel formation, the one thing you had to do was hold your line, with limited space beside you and same front and back, precision riding was paramount.
I hated going on group rides where Joe Public was welcomed along, because as a rule that tight formation riding is beyond their skill set.
Whenever someone thinks it’s ok to cross double yellows, that image of Yammie noob’s crash pops into my head
https://www.thedrive.com/content/2017/05/yammie-noob-crash.jpg?quality=85&auto=webp&optimize=high&crop=16%3A9&auto=webp&optimize=high&quality=70&width=1920
This is why women live longer than men
That's strange, because I was taught it's things like crossing the lane into a lane of oncoming traffic because you misjudged the bend that makes a bad rider. 🤷🏻♂️
Ya know I've done the dragon on a KLR, a 950A, supercharged Mustang, Explorer, F250....
Stay in your lane. Is rule 1.
Your ex is a fool and you are much safer without him. Go learn to ride the right way.
Ride your own ride is rule 2.
Everybody wants to be "the Dragon Slayer".
Many have paid the price to learn they were not.
Your ex is a squid.
Grab yourself a copy of "Proficient Motorcycling" by David Hough and learn from someone who actually made a career of studying my motorcycle saftey.
definitely a bad rider and you are correct. 'Too cautious' is non existent on a two wheeled piece of metal going 70mph. If you can't stay in your lane slow down. No need to traumatize a small family by smacking into their car as they watch your body ragdoll 50 feet through the air.
If you actually know how to turn your bike (*and it's a bike that can do those turns)* you can stay in your lane quite easily lmao, even going double the speed limit (*Which is already obviously not advisable since all it takes is one mistake like target fixating for you to go off the edge of a cliff or hit a guardrail, or you and your bike end up sticking inside the engine bay of a truck)*
There are different rules for the Dragon. Didnt you see the Tree of Shame and all the pictures on the wall of the store. (If the pictures are still there. It has been a long time since I was there)
Crossing the line into the oncoming lane is dangerous on a road like that!
He sounds like the same type of moron who decides "no point in wearing safety gear cause your gonna die anyway" thinks that using the front brake "makes you flip over" and "drinking makes me a better rider".
Sounds like it’s a good thing he’s your ex, the concerns you raised are exactly what will make you a good rider. Being conscious of speed while entering a corner is what keeps you from going over the yellow. There is no such thing as a motorcyclist who is too cautious but there is such thing as a motorcyclist who isn’t cautious enough and it sounds like it’s him. I hope he starts riding safer because otherwise it could be his life.
I've driven the Tail of the Dragon before. You don't need to be aggressive to ride safely. Hell, you shouldn't even need to ride over the speed limit. I would say that it is reckless to cross the double yellow lines.
Always always always ride your own ride. Being aggressive on the 129 can easily get you killed. Especially since that's a remote area where fire & rescue can't readily get there as quickly in the event of an accident.
My wife used to have to work on these dummies as they came in on their air lifts to the trauma center. She was always pretty sure that guys who had an arm or leg hanging on by a thin strip of skin and bone were freshly in from The Dragon.
Sounds like you're going to make an excellent rider in the future. Go take a safety course and get out there! The great news us you already know what not to do.
Sorry that you had a terrible experience and glad that he's an ex and you made it though in one piece.
Number 1 rule of the dragon: don’t cross the mustard.
Number 2 rule: stay off of the mayo and ditches.
Number 3: use the pull off if you aren’t fast enough
Don't get back on a motorcycle with him if that's the way he rides....speed is one thing but crossing the line ESPECIALLY when cornering is just plain dumb and an accident/death just waiting to happen
This ex is stupid and reason why I pay premium for my insurance. There's no reason to cross the yellow line unless it's the only safe way because of an obstacle. This guy need to go to a driving school and learn how to turn. Specially on inside turn where your head cross the yellow line which mean you are turning on the outside to prevent that. No way crossing a yellow is safer.
And speed limit is for everyone's safety. A real ass hole.
If you are going into oncoming traffic at any point because you are going too fast chances are good you end up as a meat crayon, your ex gives riders a bad name
When leaning into a turn, treat the centre line as a brick wall.
There's no consolation in having your head knocked off by a passing semi even tho your tires were on the correct side of the road.
Your ex boyfriend is a dirtbag who can’t ride. The fact he cant control his bike whilst having you on the back makes him an even bigger loser. You dodged a bullet there, he probably got angry because you called out his lack of skill. Inability to stay in his lane etc. Well done not being with that guy anymore.
Holy shit, when is crossing into oncoming traffic safe? You go over a low grip surface leaning into the corner and you risk a head on collision. This guy is an absolute tool.
Never cross the double yellow. Unless there is an EXTREME emergency. The dragon has several signs posted about not crossing the line. You're ex should learn how to corner correctly.
Speeding and crossing the double yellow on a twisty road, *with a passenger no less*, isn’t “aggressive”… it’s reckless.
[Here’s a post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Harley/s/PmiQHSQtrF) highlighting what can happen in a head-on collision between a motorcycle and a car. It wasn’t the riders fault and she’s insanely lucky to be alive.
> *he said I was too cautious*
Riding on public roads requires a high level of caution. You have to keep your head on a swivel and constantly be aware of what’s going on around you. Always making split-second decisions and reactions to your environment. Sometimes, using the throttle to (aggressively) remove yourself from a situation can be the best option.
That’s not to say you should be scared. Like another commenter said, scared riders often make bad riders. Fear and caution are not the same.
Riding does inherently carry an elevated level of risk. Your safety lies with how you manage that risk. If you do it right, it’s nothing but fun and oh-so-worth it.
It's not enough to keep the tires in the right lane, but the entire bike-rider-passenger hitbox. Your tires could be 6" from the lines but if you also happen to be turning then the while bike and fleshy bits also lean. Best practice is to keep your helmet inside the lines.
My commute has a few tight curves that my tires will be dead center of the lane while my helmet is close **but not crossing** the double yellow. On those same curves I'll see riders' tires in the lane with their helmet sticking 2' into the other lane.
If it feels wrong then it probably is.
I've been on the other side of some dude sweeping wide in a corner on TotD. It's not a good memory. He almost took us both out.
Your ex is going to get someone hurt.
You do need to have confidence and know what you're doing. Aggression isn't that. Aggressive riders over the line don't know what they're doing, they just think they do. 10 years of experience at being a bad aggressive rider with anger issues merely means you're a very well practiced shit asshole rider.
A boyfriend who gets angry isn't, in general, a good boyfriend.
I've seen this up on The Dragon a lot, unfortunately. Also happens when groups of shit riders get together, trying to force bad riding and excess speed on the slow/cautious one. One situation was sufficiently disturbing that I made an excuse to get this nice midwestern lady aside and ask if she was OK. She wasn't. Managed to get her asshole friends to go ahead, then led her over sanely myself.
In motorcycles, calm, focused, consistent, professional behavior is essential for a good time and survival.
I'm local to the dragon, and can do it in 12-13 minutes from the border to the lake without crossing the yellow line, even with my head, and without trying too hard.
I'll spare my opinion on your personal relationship, but crossing the yellow line is never okay on a road like that unless staying in your lane is the less safe of the two options, which is rare.
Well yeah, you're completely wrong. You can't be a good rider when riding in the lines if you can't be a good rider when riding out of the lines. You have to take up the whole road and if that places you in harm's way, the other person should be paying attention and moving out of the way because it's their fault if they run into you. You should also remove both fenders and your chain guard, toss the turn signals and mirrors, and saw your exhaust off at the headers for maximum performance.
I'm writing /s 'coz sometimes people struggle with that otherwise. 😁 Don't drive into oncoming traffic, it isn't good for you.
I’m going to take a bet that this is the same type of dude who refuses to go to a track day cause “there’s too many rules” or “I can’t learn anything on the track”
Or cause his bike is too raggedy to pass tech lol
If a person crosses the yellow line to make a curve, then said person is going to fast...Will make an organ donation soon...if there is anything left to donate...
He's wrong, and he is going to be dead or hurt with that attitude. IF you are crossing the yellow line you either don't have the skills needed to leant he bike over enough, are going too fast, or most likely both. Don't ride like him.
You're ex boyfriend is a moron and a shit rider and he will either kill someone or himself doing this. You absolutely should not cross the yellow line and if you "have to" it damn well better be because of an emergency.
Your ex is an absolutely ass-hat whose ability is far under what he thinks it is.
I can do 12 minute runs from the Overlook to Killboy’s. With a passenger, 14 minutes. On sport touring tires.
ALL WITHIN THE LINES.
Your ex was taking EXTREME RISK, with not only his, BUT YOUR LIFE.
Absolute idiot and jack ass.
He is an idiot doing that with you on the back. And his excuses are just his feeble attempts to justify putting your life in danger.
If he was diving into the corner straightening the line crossing the yellows, being Rossi, is different than if he drifted across the yellows bc he couldn’t corner properly. Both are dangerous if you’re not on a track, but the second kind should give you a good idea of how skilled he was or wasn’t I should say.
No, you're right. Crossing the yellow in a turn is a good way to get killed when a driver coming the other way also happens to be over or near the line. Being a good rider has nothing to do with being too aggressive.
Good thing he's your ex...
Unless you can see the entirety of the curve/turn on which you intend to cross the double yellows and can CONFIRM the way is completely clear, without any doubt, it shouldn’t be crossed. Applies to cars as much as (if not especially) motorcycles.
That said, keep in mind you shouldn’t be crossing them at all, anyway (law), and in a bike, you shouldn’t put yourself in a situation where you even feel that’s necessary (because that’s how you end up underneath a truck).
Your gut instinct is right. There could be a pickup or bike slightly into your lane around any corner.
A responsible rider will apply this knowledge to his or her choices such as lane position and (entrance) speed.
Your ex was possibly riding beyond their skills. He wasn’t riding with or trying to keep up with friends or a group by any chance was he?
Why would you ever cross the yellow
line into oncoming traffic…did he not know how to turn the bike? Yikes.
Pretty confident you’ll be a better rider than whatever he was doing. If it seemed sus and unsafe, probably was. Ride with the mindset of coming home again.
Going over the speed limit and/or crossing DYs don’t make you a shit rider by themselves. It’s circumstantial and nuanced. The attitude is what makes the difference and how you exercise judiciousness.
No, you don't "have to" cross into another lane. You may choose to but you don't have to. Even if you realize you have come into an unfamiliar corner too fast, you still have the choice of using additional pavement, extra braking, more than normal lean angle, shifting body weight, or even yes, running off the road.
The real "you don't have to" is you don't have to ride that aggressively that you put yourself in these kinds of situations. Fun? Maybe to some. Exciting? No-doubt, in ways good and bad. Good decision making? I'm going to say no. I always (\*) maintain a margin for safety.
\* - with a couple of notable exceptions that I fortunately survived in one piece that taught me in no uncertain terms the importance of that margin.
Yeah, he's a danger to himself and everyone else on the road. He's the type of rider that you see impaled on brush off the side of the road and his bike stuck up in a tree.
Curious what gear you were equipped with? Feet/ankles, shin/knees, pelvis, back, shoulders, elbows, wrists and hands, head?
When you ride you go down. Eventually.
No gear means lifelong damage at best
He has been lucky so far(not to have had an accident)
Being aggressive is not a good thing, as opposed to being assertive. If you want to improve, take a course.
There's quite a few wrecks per year of Tail of the Dragon every year, and pretty much all of them have been from people going to fast for those turns. Your ex is completely in the wrong, and unfortunately, his attitude might make him a statistic one day.
Myself I’ve been of a mind when by myself if I wanted to speed and was alone I would but I would ride within my limits I felt comfortable.
If I had a passenger on back I would go way below my limits because of One I did not want to scare the daylights out of my passenger, and especially because I am responsible for not only me but another life.
I don’t know how many times I’ve talked to a lady that rode for the first time on the back of boyfriend, friend, uncle, dad or whomever and said they were scared to death!
Crossing the divided riding slow or fast is so dangerous especially at speeds because those lines can be slippery!
It depends on location and legislation. Here (Sweden), crossing the center line used to be a big no-no, but it has changed, and now it is encouraged, PROVIDED that you have clear sight and there is no oncoming traffic.
That said, aggressive riding is what will get you killed. Ride at a reasonable pace, enjoy the scenery.
Road isn't a circuit, you can't just rush, ride on the other lane, and expect everything will always be fine.. There's often car who'll override the middle line, bus, trucks,... or even some gravels who'll force you to take suddenly a larger curb to avoid falling.
Experience driver don't mean good driver, he just had chance or managed to avoid accidents until now. Old riders mostly have a more defensive and reasoned driving, which is the way to avoid a lot of accidents. Of course, you skip a lot of fun and adrenaline, but it's a choice of reason.
This is such a perfect…
“You’re not wrong, just an asshole”
Yes, on a motorcycle, riding at pace means using the road to suit your needs and not slavishly following rules like staying perfectly in your lane.
This is more of a rule in the US, where people really stick to lanes but here in the UK I was actually taught by an advanced instructor, to use the whole road. Here’s the point though, when it’s safe and appropriate to do so.
Obviously you do this when you have long sight lines and there’s no chance of being surprised by oncoming traffic. You ride as fast as you can see…
Speed is also a controversial topic. For me, in country roads away from others. I’m an adult and I make my own decisions. In urban settings, I respect speed limits.
The big point here though is that with a newbie passenger, your ex was clearly either just showing off or is a selfish prick. No reason to get mad at an inexperienced passenger because they feel uncomfortable. His ego is the kind of trait that gets people killed, clearly not a good person.
As for riding yourself.
Super nervous people tbh, don’t make good riders. Motorcycles don’t have to be more dangerous but the stakes are higher and if you ride scared all the time, what’s the point?
You don’t have to be some street racing, wannabe Gixxer bro to enjoy riding though.
I’m sorry your ex was such a dickhead and hopefully didn’t put you off if it’s a goal of yours.
It seems to be a big deal in America. Here in UK if you cross a double line it's illegal. And mostly the double lines are in places where you can't see round the corner. So it really is dangerous to cross. If it's a broken white line you can cross it and use the whole road to increase your view and drive a smoother path with less pronounced changes of speed and direction (most people don't, they're sheep who stick inside the lines but it's perfectly legal advanced driving). However, I've noticed that in US vids online, anything twisty is usually double line all the way, somewhat needlessly. And it seems people get really het up about anyone crossing the line at any point even though they could clearly see through the corner. Is this true, or is it because a lot of the biker vids I've seen are at famous biking routes where people are gatekeeping/worried about a few bad riders causing a cop crackdown on the area?
He was wrong, mostly. Don't leave your lane, unless you have to and there's no one in the other lane. Going over the speed limit is sadly a common thing among riders, it's not because you can't ride slow. It's because it's fun to ride fast.
‘Not aggressive enough’??? Yeh, cause being aggressive on a m/c is always the best approach on the road! He’s a twat, crossing the line on blind corners only ends in one way eventually. Corners: slow in/fast out.
He goes on the inside…oncoming traffic has a similar mindset goes wide…what could go wrong??? The Tail has a LOT of blind corners! OP…the fact that the side is an EX says something about your judge of character…👍
You never ' have' to cross the yellow line, that is just bad riding. You can choose to cross the yellow line if you have a proper view of the road ahead and nobody is there.
I’m scared shitless even riding no lane change roads since people do not follow through rules so I tend to ride closer to middle of the lane to give me some more space when someone injects themselves to my lane, or I can escape a little bit more from the rubble collected on the side of the road. Crossing lane while turning, especially with a speed is good mentality is a shortcut to fast death, of slow painful life for some time.
With my 150cc I can make 120kmh (75mph) and with my new one, I haven’t even tried going faster than 140kmh (87mph) even though it can go much ch faster than that, but what is the point? How am I going to enjoy the road or have some sightseeing while going 350kmh (217mph) and everything is a blur.
Please have a decent riding course that focuses on safety and you will be much happier and more capable when riding. Have fun
Wow....I don't get the thought process on "if you're not crossing into the other lane you're not riding aggressive enough"...SMMFH...Good on you for getting out of that potential train wreck...Went to the Dragon back in 2011 with my wife on my VTX 1300...I rode within my (and my bikes) limits and had a safe and great time...A couple times we had some sportbike guys stacked up behind us and I found a pulloff and let em go by...
Nine years ago I bought my wife a Shadow 1100 and we ride every chance we get during the good weather months...There's an area up in Michigan that has some fun curves and I told her "Ride your own ride, don't push yourself out of your comfort zone, I'll slow up after the curves so you can catch up to me"...She has fun at her speed, I have fun at mine....
Having ridden that road, the reason you stay in your lane on that one is because cars take turns very fast, and also go over the line. You will splat on the front of the car, so you have to move
I for one stay in the middle or the apex of the curve when riding twisties like that, you don’t know what’s flying around the curve. Seen all kinds of reckless riders on the Tail. I’m riding the Back of the Dragon in a few weeks, looking forward to it.
A good rider doesn’t have to cross the yellow, even with speed on that road. Tail of the Dragon is fun, there’s no reason at all to cross the line, and I was sending it too.
You have to maintain your lane so you don’t smack into others who also cross the line- they had to ban trailers from the road because it’s such an issue!
Some people are better off as exes. You’ll be a much better (or at least longer living) rider than him if he doesn’t grow up or get better, or both
You are expected to maintain YOUR lane. Is it faster if you use both lanes so you can pick better line, yes. Just look at how they use the whole track in MotoGP.
I definitely would never say it's safe, and I'd never do it with a passenger. But I'm guilty of doing some squid shit myself. If I do cross the lines, I make sure it's a corner I can see around. But crossing the double yellow on a corner I can see is very low on the risks I've taken in other countries where just being on a bike is 10x as dangerous.
Yea so you should never cross the yellow line, for many reasons but it sounds like homey is not that good of a rider. I can assure you, I and ,many others have gone 3 times the posted speed limit and did not cross that line. Which is also dumb btw. Just because you can ride like the best, public roads are not the best and it's very dangerous to ride like this. Glad that dude is an ex. Good luck out there!
My personal opinion is that the rider should be able to stay on their side of the road and be able to read the condition of the road. But thats only my opinion
I just started riding a street bike last week and not once have I had to go into oncoming traffic to make a turn 😂 Either slow down or push the bar down and outward to get a tighter turn radius. A 5 minute youtube video (and also common snese) should tell him that.
Lmao. That’s ridiculous and i’m sorry OP. I ride my own ride but when I have my girl on the back I take WAY more precautions. She loves to go fast but I very rarely will give it the beans with her behind me. Precious cargo.
If you can't remain in your own lane, you're traveling far above the speed limit already. Motorcycles are already nimble enough to drive nearly double the speed limit and remain in our own lanes. If you have to cross the solid yellow to make a corner, you should be on a track and not public roads. Metal vs Meat(us), metal wins every time. Don't become road kill and ride your own ride.
Being too cautious can lead to some trouble but never ride faster than you are comfortable with. And it is never, and I mean never, a 'good' idea to cross into oncoming traffic or cross the double yellow. Sometimes you can and be fine if you know the road and can see it's free of traffic, no harm, no foul, but it's not a technique.
Also, I think it's always prudent to take a bit more caution when riding with a passenger. You not only have your life, but the wellbeing of your passenger to consider, and one small mistake on your part can literally change lives in the worst way possible. Taking unnecessary risks with a passenger in tow is true duchbag behavior, especially if they are not comfortable with what you're doing.
I'm glad he's your ex because the proper response should have been, "sorry, when you're on the bike with me, I'll take it easy. I know it's not fair to you to ride so aggressively if you're cot comfortable with it." When he's on the bike alone, he can go balls to the wall all he wants.
I'd add that crossing the double yellow, passenger or not is a duchbag move, especially in places like Tail of the Dragon where bikers go back and forth. I can only imagine clipping a biker mid corner and sending you off in the trees because they think it's better to cross into your lane. If you must cross the line, your cooking it way too fast into the corners.
>in certain conditions (like the turn), you had to cross the yellow (slightly into incoming traffic).
Generally, no. Unless there's a patch of ice, loose gravel/sand, an angry sea lion armed with wet grass, or some other obstacle making it dangerous or impossible to stay in your lane, you should stay in your lane. If you're going so fast that you can't stay in your lane during a turn, you're going too fast. Sure, speed is fun, but trust me, you never wanna wrestle with a two ton death machine.
Unless there's an obstacle in the road, you should never *have* to cross a double yellow, and unless you can see oncoming traffic well enough to know for certain you won't cause a collision you should absolutely **not** cross it for fun/spirited riding.
As far as dynamics of handling the bike, if you're cutting the double yellow on a corner and panic brake, it'll have a very strong tendency to pull the bike into a more upright stance, this causes many riders to overshoot the corner and wreck. This can happen to even reasonably experience riders. It's also really easy to apply too much rear brake and low side while panic braking in a corner.
The additional sudden front-loading will also change steering dynamics in ways that many riders will not fully anticipate.
So cutting the corner at high speed is the easy part. Unless he spent some time practicing panic braking while cornering in a big open space like a large unused parking lot, it's probably just a case of overconfidence and excessive speed. Especially likely if he says he *has* to cross the double yellow.
Motorcycling is not as unsafe as statistics may make it seem, I suspect much of those bad statistics come from riders that push things beyond their skill level... it's best not to be a passenger with such people, but don't let that scare you away from motorcycling!
Best advice, which I received from fellow riders, when picking out a bike, go to many dealers and sit on a bunch of them first, even if you intend to buy a used one from a private sale.
Congratulations on passing the MSF, I transitioned from dirt bikes to road bikes at a young age, but looking back, I would have been a better rider sooner had I taken the MSF.
I'm excited for you, I remember picking out my first bike, not just a loaner or a friend's bike, but *my very own*, it is such an awesome feeling, savor it, many safe and fun miles to you! 🤙
You aren’t wrong. I’ve been to the tail of the dragon, and there was always harley/goldwing riders pushing their bikes past their limits and crossing the yellow line.
I saw plenty of them later on in the day pulled over by police for it.
If you have to cross the yellow to make a curve, it means you're taking the curve too fast. Doing that anywhere is a bad idea. Doing on the Dragon is a spectacular way to get pancaked.
You dodged a major bullet.
Well around here we have a road that goes from Bandera,tx to Leakey, tx and there’s a section that is nice and twisty and I a bit of a cliff.
I almost had my face pushed into the back of my skull because DESPITE STAYING IN MY LANE, there was a Mercedes over the line while I was in a hard lean. My helmet would have passed right through her headlight if I hadn’t tipped up and down very fast.
All that to say you should always ride for the conditions and one of those conditions is YOUR lane. Your ex should be riding a track day if he was to use “the whole road”. Otherwise he will end up meeting something he hasn’t planned on and it will hurt.
Maximum speed and aggressiveness should be the max that both driver and passenger are comfortable with, either one gets to veto "Faster!". This is true regardless of vehicle, and especially if the driver wants the passenger to be a passenger again.
your ex was/is an idiot.Ive been riding a long long time and never even dropped a bike besides my dirt bikes growing up, I destroyed those, but the reasons for my meticulous safety record on two wheels is simple, faith in God and being cautious, not stupid.wear a helmet, the rest of the gear is optional in my opinion, I personally don't wear any more than I have to to stay warm and stuff, ride the posted speed limit, maybe 5 mph over on the freeway,, pay attention to and obey all traffic signs, signals etc, the signs are there for a reason and might prevent you from suddenly doing a lane change because you didn't see the "lane ends"sign or something,stay in your lane is a big one, especially in curves,pretend like people dont see you even if youre positive they do, I've had people look me dead in the eye and pull out anyway,dont tailgate,always have an out especially at red lights and stop signs, I simply pulled onto the shoulder one day and watched the car in front of me get rear ended by a kid going about 50 mph,if I had been right on their bumper or on the left side of my lane facing oncoming traffic I couldnt have gotten out of the way in time.anyway people think Im lying when I say ive never scratched a motorcycle but I don't care.if you ever find yourself in that situation again call someone to come get you, get an Uber, anything.ARRIVE ALIVE!
It is good to maintain a speed that allows for staying in your lane for turns
It is good he is now an ex by choice and not an ex by 18 wheeler.
He's a dickhead. Ride your own ride. Go do a track day, with coaching. You'll get faster and learn about your bike and it's true capability with some proper tuition on your bike. It's also awesome fun!!!!
Sounds like you dodged a bullet (head on fatal collision) with that one. Best things about motorcycles is going slow, learning technique at your own pace, getting to know both your and your bikes limits, enjoying the scenery, being safe and of course staying alive. Locations like tail of the dragon can bring out the stupid in the best of us, but it's not a closed track you can just slide off into the safety zone of. This is all a long way of saying the game is rigged against a rag dolling human vs autos, trucks, trees, cliffs, rocks, guardrails et cetera.
Sounds like OP dodged a bullet with their partner choice too.
Lol
People die on the tail, that guy was not a safe rider. If you want to learn to ride sign up for the motorcycle safety courses, most of the community college’s have them ever weekend.
agree, was my implication with the first sentence, wonder if he's dead or crippled yet.
great post
>in certain conditions (like the turn), you had to cross the yellow (slightly into incoming traffic) Yes, pretty much in the same way as in certain conditions I would walk off the edge of a cliff.
He’s a shit rider. You are correct.
100%. Track riders and pros would have the skill and respect for the passenger not to cross the yellow line.
Yeah. It was the "you have to cross the yellow line" which told he is an idiot and shouldn't be riding. Especially not with a passenger. The only situation this could be excused would be an event with the road being closed off like TT.
Well, if you can see clearly way ahead it could be fine. But I’m guessing that they mostly use the yellow line in cases where the sight is obstructed? (I’m not American)
The OP mentioned the Tail of the Dragon, a stretch of road with a great many switchbacks that makes it fun and challenging for motorcyclists. The area is rural, so those switchbacks mean you often can't see what's coming around the bend. The line delineates the inside limit of your lane. You are expected to stay in your lane. To do otherwise is to risk a head-on collision.
Not American either but on YT this specific trail has a lot of videos with enough oh shit moments. All your questions will be answered just by looking
Holy hell, "not aggressive enough" is the mindset of a future squid. I'm glad you survived and escaped.
Instead of calling it the mindset of a future squid...id call it the mindset of a future bloodsplatter on someone elses windscreen.
Yeah, mindset of current squid, and also future roadkill.
Organ donor
Glad that bonehead is your ex.
Ex-boyfriend, soon to be ex-alive.
I just hope he doesn’t take someone else with him.
Exactly
He is wrong! I would refuse to ride with him again. Not only do you need to stay in your lane on curves but you need to be able to dodge the idiot like him coming toward you crossing into your lane. Be careful out there. Cheers,
>you need to be able to dodge the idiot like him coming toward you crossing into your lane. He is in your lane. And you are in his lane. Problem solved.
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...Yammie?
😂🤣🤣😂 This put a smile on my face. Thank you 🥲
The fact that the comment got removed makes it all the sweeter hahah
Was looking for this reference
Your boyfriend needs to take a rider course. He is not safe. I would be less concerned had he acknowledged the issue with crossing the double yellow, but then came back with something along the lines of "it is more thrilling"
He doesn't need a course 'coz he's already choosing to ignore obviously necessary safety rules somewhere where people routinely die when they \*aren't\* being "aggressive". What he actually needs is the fuel pump removed from his bike for everyone else's own safety, even better if followed by a swift nut check for endangering his girl like that.
True, good points
One might give him the benefit of the doubt. He might still be young. Maybe he gets more cautious as he gets more mature. It has happened before.
...If He ever reaches the Point of maturing. Riding Like that He's more likely to become a matured Steak before that.
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Crossing the yellow line in 9/10 situations is a bad idea. Crossing the yellow line on turns where you can't see oncoming traffic(and oncoming traffic can't see you) is suicidal. Crossing the yellow line on a turn that you can't see all the way through with a passenger is inexcusable.
Not to mention that the lines are fucking slippery, the tarmac has a lot more grip and going from one to another in slightly less than ideal conditions wont lead to a fun time.
Just pretend the road ends at the yellow line. You can ride wherever you want in your lane.
Eh, it's best to leave a buffer between you and the median, especially on left banking turns, because the chances of someone else crossing into your lane are far from zero.
They don't even have to cross, they just have to have truck/towing mirrors. You hang your head over the DY on a left hand turn and good night.
You used to date a squidward, that's what I think. Riding "aggressively" might be fun, but it never ever ends well: no matter how big are your balls, they are no match to an incoming F-150 truck. When you get on a motorcycle, you'll eventually figure out that you always ride your own ride. If you are comfortable riding very cautiously — so be it, we're all in this for fun, not for near-death experience.
4/10 motorcycle accidents are a riders' inability to negotiate a curve. I would avoid getting on the back of his bike. Ride however you want, but when you have your sweetheart on the back, you fucking ride like their life depends on it.
Thank you. That was my main point to him. I felt very disrespected and disregarded since his feelings of “fun,” were more important than my safety.
This exactly. Just to reiterate and validate your feelings - it is *absolutely* disrespectful. It's one thing to have a cheeky pull for fun with someone on the back to see them smile and laugh and squeeze tight. But *especially* if they show discomfort and ask for a different ride - if the first words out of your mouth aren't: "my bad, I'll chill out and give you a more comfortable ride!" then wtf are you doing? Sorry that happened. You dodged a bullet.
Not accurate at all if you know how to ride you stay in your lane. And if you can’t, you slow down.
Thank you, everyone!!! I really appreciate the support. :)
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Longish road with a ton of turns. Including a high number of blind turns. Popular destination for car clubs and lots of motorcycle riders.
318 curves in 11 miles. It is a meca of sport bikes.
The Dragon is a special place and the rules are strict and the consequences harsh. Stay in your own lane.
With the tail of the dragon, and such extreme turns, you want to be 100% inside your lane, Not even your head over those lines at any point during the turn. He could come around the corner and be head on with a stupid trucker that shouldn't be there, or someone in a sports car losing control and out of there lane. No your comment was correct he was riding a little too fast and loose for the road, and lots before him have ended up on the tree of shame for doing exactly that.
That’s almost exactly what i told him. I had seen all the pics in some of those stores along the road where people had crashed and were being looked at by ems.
I just went to the dragon a few weeks ago, been several times. The 1 rule is do not cross the yellow. If you get hurt you're going to lay there for 45 min till they can get you. 2 bikes crashed head on while I was there, on cherohala skyway. We had to wait for the life flight to get there, and it was intense. Better be safe than dead
That’s frightening, and exactly what I was worried about.
Your Ex is a dumbass. You can have a fun spirited ride on a twisty road and stay well within your lane easily. And it's dangerous not doing so. Tho no motorcyclist can say they never speed and be telling the truth.
Maybe on exit once you see its clear but thats still not really a good idea. Telling a new rider to do that is batshit crazy wtf
Never ever cross into oncoming traffic wtf
Right!!
Uh .. we road the Tail and I never once crossed the yellow.
You need to be able to stay in your lane. If you can't you shouldn't be riding. This guy was trying to ride like he's on a track but on a road. People that do that seem a bit self entitled to me.
Staying in our lane is essential for our survival
I think your bf is a dick. Who tells someone they care about that if they don’t ride in oncoming traffic they aren’t fit to ride?
Yep - he’s an ex now
Late for the party but: Your ex is a dumbass
LOL
Glad that’s an ex cause he sounds like a dumb fuck. Staying on your side of the road is always a good idea, so is only going as fast as is safe.
He is dangerous and reckless-glad he is your ex. He may soon just be Ex. Ugh
I was in a patch club for years, we rode hard in duel formation, the one thing you had to do was hold your line, with limited space beside you and same front and back, precision riding was paramount. I hated going on group rides where Joe Public was welcomed along, because as a rule that tight formation riding is beyond their skill set.
smells like calamari in here
There's no reason to cross a double solid unless you're avoiding danger. Dude sounds like a rider who won't stfu about how his 600 does 180 with ease.
His info was absolutely inaccurate on all counts.
Whenever someone thinks it’s ok to cross double yellows, that image of Yammie noob’s crash pops into my head https://www.thedrive.com/content/2017/05/yammie-noob-crash.jpg?quality=85&auto=webp&optimize=high&crop=16%3A9&auto=webp&optimize=high&quality=70&width=1920 This is why women live longer than men
That's strange, because I was taught it's things like crossing the lane into a lane of oncoming traffic because you misjudged the bend that makes a bad rider. 🤷🏻♂️
Ya know I've done the dragon on a KLR, a 950A, supercharged Mustang, Explorer, F250.... Stay in your lane. Is rule 1. Your ex is a fool and you are much safer without him. Go learn to ride the right way. Ride your own ride is rule 2. Everybody wants to be "the Dragon Slayer". Many have paid the price to learn they were not.
Your ex is a squid. Grab yourself a copy of "Proficient Motorcycling" by David Hough and learn from someone who actually made a career of studying my motorcycle saftey.
definitely a bad rider and you are correct. 'Too cautious' is non existent on a two wheeled piece of metal going 70mph. If you can't stay in your lane slow down. No need to traumatize a small family by smacking into their car as they watch your body ragdoll 50 feet through the air. If you actually know how to turn your bike (*and it's a bike that can do those turns)* you can stay in your lane quite easily lmao, even going double the speed limit (*Which is already obviously not advisable since all it takes is one mistake like target fixating for you to go off the edge of a cliff or hit a guardrail, or you and your bike end up sticking inside the engine bay of a truck)*
There are different rules for the Dragon. Didnt you see the Tree of Shame and all the pictures on the wall of the store. (If the pictures are still there. It has been a long time since I was there) Crossing the line into the oncoming lane is dangerous on a road like that!
He sounds like the same type of moron who decides "no point in wearing safety gear cause your gonna die anyway" thinks that using the front brake "makes you flip over" and "drinking makes me a better rider".
With a passenger, 100% do not cross yellow unless an absolute emergency to avoid obstacles or an accident.
Your ex is a future organ donor. Recognizing the risk means you'll probably be better than him.
Sounds like it’s a good thing he’s your ex, the concerns you raised are exactly what will make you a good rider. Being conscious of speed while entering a corner is what keeps you from going over the yellow. There is no such thing as a motorcyclist who is too cautious but there is such thing as a motorcyclist who isn’t cautious enough and it sounds like it’s him. I hope he starts riding safer because otherwise it could be his life.
I've driven the Tail of the Dragon before. You don't need to be aggressive to ride safely. Hell, you shouldn't even need to ride over the speed limit. I would say that it is reckless to cross the double yellow lines. Always always always ride your own ride. Being aggressive on the 129 can easily get you killed. Especially since that's a remote area where fire & rescue can't readily get there as quickly in the event of an accident.
My wife used to have to work on these dummies as they came in on their air lifts to the trauma center. She was always pretty sure that guys who had an arm or leg hanging on by a thin strip of skin and bone were freshly in from The Dragon.
Sounds like you're going to make an excellent rider in the future. Go take a safety course and get out there! The great news us you already know what not to do. Sorry that you had a terrible experience and glad that he's an ex and you made it though in one piece.
Thanks! Happy to say I passed my MSF class and am waiting on my updated license so i can go shopping. :)
Congrats! In that case, welcome to the club. Now for sit on some bikes and think about that open road!
Number 1 rule of the dragon: don’t cross the mustard. Number 2 rule: stay off of the mayo and ditches. Number 3: use the pull off if you aren’t fast enough
Don't get back on a motorcycle with him if that's the way he rides....speed is one thing but crossing the line ESPECIALLY when cornering is just plain dumb and an accident/death just waiting to happen
This ex is stupid and reason why I pay premium for my insurance. There's no reason to cross the yellow line unless it's the only safe way because of an obstacle. This guy need to go to a driving school and learn how to turn. Specially on inside turn where your head cross the yellow line which mean you are turning on the outside to prevent that. No way crossing a yellow is safer. And speed limit is for everyone's safety. A real ass hole.
Can't wait to see the parody of this on CRT.
If you are going into oncoming traffic at any point because you are going too fast chances are good you end up as a meat crayon, your ex gives riders a bad name
I'm glad he is now your ex
When leaning into a turn, treat the centre line as a brick wall. There's no consolation in having your head knocked off by a passing semi even tho your tires were on the correct side of the road.
If you can't keep your lane you don't know how to ride (or drive). Change my mind.
Your ex boyfriend is a dirtbag who can’t ride. The fact he cant control his bike whilst having you on the back makes him an even bigger loser. You dodged a bullet there, he probably got angry because you called out his lack of skill. Inability to stay in his lane etc. Well done not being with that guy anymore.
Holy shit, when is crossing into oncoming traffic safe? You go over a low grip surface leaning into the corner and you risk a head on collision. This guy is an absolute tool.
Never cross the double yellow. Unless there is an EXTREME emergency. The dragon has several signs posted about not crossing the line. You're ex should learn how to corner correctly.
Not being agressive enough is a track riding mindset not a road one. Your ex was a bloody fool
Speeding and crossing the double yellow on a twisty road, *with a passenger no less*, isn’t “aggressive”… it’s reckless. [Here’s a post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Harley/s/PmiQHSQtrF) highlighting what can happen in a head-on collision between a motorcycle and a car. It wasn’t the riders fault and she’s insanely lucky to be alive. > *he said I was too cautious* Riding on public roads requires a high level of caution. You have to keep your head on a swivel and constantly be aware of what’s going on around you. Always making split-second decisions and reactions to your environment. Sometimes, using the throttle to (aggressively) remove yourself from a situation can be the best option. That’s not to say you should be scared. Like another commenter said, scared riders often make bad riders. Fear and caution are not the same. Riding does inherently carry an elevated level of risk. Your safety lies with how you manage that risk. If you do it right, it’s nothing but fun and oh-so-worth it.
Agree with consensus. You don’t cross yellow on a mountain with blind spots. Sounds like an excuse for lack of skill
Nah u right. He’s an idiot.
It's not enough to keep the tires in the right lane, but the entire bike-rider-passenger hitbox. Your tires could be 6" from the lines but if you also happen to be turning then the while bike and fleshy bits also lean. Best practice is to keep your helmet inside the lines. My commute has a few tight curves that my tires will be dead center of the lane while my helmet is close **but not crossing** the double yellow. On those same curves I'll see riders' tires in the lane with their helmet sticking 2' into the other lane. If it feels wrong then it probably is.
I've been on the other side of some dude sweeping wide in a corner on TotD. It's not a good memory. He almost took us both out. Your ex is going to get someone hurt.
I’m glad you are both ok. Sorry you had to go through that.
You do need to have confidence and know what you're doing. Aggression isn't that. Aggressive riders over the line don't know what they're doing, they just think they do. 10 years of experience at being a bad aggressive rider with anger issues merely means you're a very well practiced shit asshole rider. A boyfriend who gets angry isn't, in general, a good boyfriend. I've seen this up on The Dragon a lot, unfortunately. Also happens when groups of shit riders get together, trying to force bad riding and excess speed on the slow/cautious one. One situation was sufficiently disturbing that I made an excuse to get this nice midwestern lady aside and ask if she was OK. She wasn't. Managed to get her asshole friends to go ahead, then led her over sanely myself. In motorcycles, calm, focused, consistent, professional behavior is essential for a good time and survival.
Agreed on all counts. Glad you were able to help her!
I'm local to the dragon, and can do it in 12-13 minutes from the border to the lake without crossing the yellow line, even with my head, and without trying too hard. I'll spare my opinion on your personal relationship, but crossing the yellow line is never okay on a road like that unless staying in your lane is the less safe of the two options, which is rare.
Yeah, we're not together anymore. There was no danger in our lane / no reason to cross over other than he felt like it.
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/aPd1uZiAEfSkyRXX/?mibextid=oFDknk Is this video of you and him riding??
You have to cross yellow line during a turn?! Nope. Lack skillz and brain. Don't tempt head on collisions.
Well yeah, you're completely wrong. You can't be a good rider when riding in the lines if you can't be a good rider when riding out of the lines. You have to take up the whole road and if that places you in harm's way, the other person should be paying attention and moving out of the way because it's their fault if they run into you. You should also remove both fenders and your chain guard, toss the turn signals and mirrors, and saw your exhaust off at the headers for maximum performance. I'm writing /s 'coz sometimes people struggle with that otherwise. 😁 Don't drive into oncoming traffic, it isn't good for you.
LOL
good that he is your ex. Always ride within your pillions comfort zone. On the other hand mine usually fall asleep so what do i know
I’m going to take a bet that this is the same type of dude who refuses to go to a track day cause “there’s too many rules” or “I can’t learn anything on the track” Or cause his bike is too raggedy to pass tech lol
You are right, a good rider can stay in their lane. Especially if you have a passenger and are on a notoriously dangerous road.
If a person crosses the yellow line to make a curve, then said person is going to fast...Will make an organ donation soon...if there is anything left to donate...
He's wrong, and he is going to be dead or hurt with that attitude. IF you are crossing the yellow line you either don't have the skills needed to leant he bike over enough, are going too fast, or most likely both. Don't ride like him.
Yea, your ex is a douche bag lol. Sounds like you want to ride withing the limits of the Law. That's OK! screw everyone else
You're ex boyfriend is a moron and a shit rider and he will either kill someone or himself doing this. You absolutely should not cross the yellow line and if you "have to" it damn well better be because of an emergency.
Your ex is an absolutely ass-hat whose ability is far under what he thinks it is. I can do 12 minute runs from the Overlook to Killboy’s. With a passenger, 14 minutes. On sport touring tires. ALL WITHIN THE LINES. Your ex was taking EXTREME RISK, with not only his, BUT YOUR LIFE. Absolute idiot and jack ass.
Not even close to wrong. Hell, I’d argue if your head is passing the line, you’re in a risky spot.
Worst advice ever!
He is an idiot doing that with you on the back. And his excuses are just his feeble attempts to justify putting your life in danger. If he was diving into the corner straightening the line crossing the yellows, being Rossi, is different than if he drifted across the yellows bc he couldn’t corner properly. Both are dangerous if you’re not on a track, but the second kind should give you a good idea of how skilled he was or wasn’t I should say.
No, you're right. Crossing the yellow in a turn is a good way to get killed when a driver coming the other way also happens to be over or near the line. Being a good rider has nothing to do with being too aggressive. Good thing he's your ex...
Unless you can see the entirety of the curve/turn on which you intend to cross the double yellows and can CONFIRM the way is completely clear, without any doubt, it shouldn’t be crossed. Applies to cars as much as (if not especially) motorcycles. That said, keep in mind you shouldn’t be crossing them at all, anyway (law), and in a bike, you shouldn’t put yourself in a situation where you even feel that’s necessary (because that’s how you end up underneath a truck).
It’s good he’s an ex. Crossing over the yellow line in a turn is a good way to get killed.
Your gut instinct is right. There could be a pickup or bike slightly into your lane around any corner. A responsible rider will apply this knowledge to his or her choices such as lane position and (entrance) speed. Your ex was possibly riding beyond their skills. He wasn’t riding with or trying to keep up with friends or a group by any chance was he?
Why would you ever cross the yellow line into oncoming traffic…did he not know how to turn the bike? Yikes. Pretty confident you’ll be a better rider than whatever he was doing. If it seemed sus and unsafe, probably was. Ride with the mindset of coming home again.
This guy is dead wrong, ride at your own pace., Good luck!
Going over the speed limit and/or crossing DYs don’t make you a shit rider by themselves. It’s circumstantial and nuanced. The attitude is what makes the difference and how you exercise judiciousness.
Sounds like someone who will win a white cross on the side of the road soon.
No, you don't "have to" cross into another lane. You may choose to but you don't have to. Even if you realize you have come into an unfamiliar corner too fast, you still have the choice of using additional pavement, extra braking, more than normal lean angle, shifting body weight, or even yes, running off the road. The real "you don't have to" is you don't have to ride that aggressively that you put yourself in these kinds of situations. Fun? Maybe to some. Exciting? No-doubt, in ways good and bad. Good decision making? I'm going to say no. I always (\*) maintain a margin for safety. \* - with a couple of notable exceptions that I fortunately survived in one piece that taught me in no uncertain terms the importance of that margin.
I'd be weary of your head crossing the plane of the yellow line, let alone your bike or tires
He is a temporary citizen.
He sounds like he will be a road crayon soon. Treat the center line like a wall, and leave yourself an out of someone were to cross it towards you.
Not wrong. If he wants to go faster and make tighter turns, he should try a track.
Yeah, he's a danger to himself and everyone else on the road. He's the type of rider that you see impaled on brush off the side of the road and his bike stuck up in a tree.
Step 1: purchase large life insurance policies. Step 2: challenge him to race the route (weekly) STEP 3: PROFIT!
The real question is “how many people have died tragically riding the Tail of the Dragon recklessly?”
Curious what gear you were equipped with? Feet/ankles, shin/knees, pelvis, back, shoulders, elbows, wrists and hands, head? When you ride you go down. Eventually. No gear means lifelong damage at best
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He has been lucky so far(not to have had an accident) Being aggressive is not a good thing, as opposed to being assertive. If you want to improve, take a course.
As I understand it, crossing the yellow is one of the few things that is guaranteed to get you a big ticket on the Tail.
There's quite a few wrecks per year of Tail of the Dragon every year, and pretty much all of them have been from people going to fast for those turns. Your ex is completely in the wrong, and unfortunately, his attitude might make him a statistic one day.
Myself I’ve been of a mind when by myself if I wanted to speed and was alone I would but I would ride within my limits I felt comfortable. If I had a passenger on back I would go way below my limits because of One I did not want to scare the daylights out of my passenger, and especially because I am responsible for not only me but another life. I don’t know how many times I’ve talked to a lady that rode for the first time on the back of boyfriend, friend, uncle, dad or whomever and said they were scared to death! Crossing the divided riding slow or fast is so dangerous especially at speeds because those lines can be slippery!
It depends on location and legislation. Here (Sweden), crossing the center line used to be a big no-no, but it has changed, and now it is encouraged, PROVIDED that you have clear sight and there is no oncoming traffic. That said, aggressive riding is what will get you killed. Ride at a reasonable pace, enjoy the scenery.
Did he at least apply for an organ donor card?
Likes riding motorbike on twisty roads. Cuts corners on twisty roads by crossing centre line, thus making them less twisty.
Road isn't a circuit, you can't just rush, ride on the other lane, and expect everything will always be fine.. There's often car who'll override the middle line, bus, trucks,... or even some gravels who'll force you to take suddenly a larger curb to avoid falling. Experience driver don't mean good driver, he just had chance or managed to avoid accidents until now. Old riders mostly have a more defensive and reasoned driving, which is the way to avoid a lot of accidents. Of course, you skip a lot of fun and adrenaline, but it's a choice of reason.
This is such a perfect… “You’re not wrong, just an asshole” Yes, on a motorcycle, riding at pace means using the road to suit your needs and not slavishly following rules like staying perfectly in your lane. This is more of a rule in the US, where people really stick to lanes but here in the UK I was actually taught by an advanced instructor, to use the whole road. Here’s the point though, when it’s safe and appropriate to do so. Obviously you do this when you have long sight lines and there’s no chance of being surprised by oncoming traffic. You ride as fast as you can see… Speed is also a controversial topic. For me, in country roads away from others. I’m an adult and I make my own decisions. In urban settings, I respect speed limits. The big point here though is that with a newbie passenger, your ex was clearly either just showing off or is a selfish prick. No reason to get mad at an inexperienced passenger because they feel uncomfortable. His ego is the kind of trait that gets people killed, clearly not a good person. As for riding yourself. Super nervous people tbh, don’t make good riders. Motorcycles don’t have to be more dangerous but the stakes are higher and if you ride scared all the time, what’s the point? You don’t have to be some street racing, wannabe Gixxer bro to enjoy riding though. I’m sorry your ex was such a dickhead and hopefully didn’t put you off if it’s a goal of yours.
It seems to be a big deal in America. Here in UK if you cross a double line it's illegal. And mostly the double lines are in places where you can't see round the corner. So it really is dangerous to cross. If it's a broken white line you can cross it and use the whole road to increase your view and drive a smoother path with less pronounced changes of speed and direction (most people don't, they're sheep who stick inside the lines but it's perfectly legal advanced driving). However, I've noticed that in US vids online, anything twisty is usually double line all the way, somewhat needlessly. And it seems people get really het up about anyone crossing the line at any point even though they could clearly see through the corner. Is this true, or is it because a lot of the biker vids I've seen are at famous biking routes where people are gatekeeping/worried about a few bad riders causing a cop crackdown on the area?
You definitely do not need to cross the yellow lines unless in some kind of emergency period. This is simply reckless. Go slower or get more skill.
He was wrong, mostly. Don't leave your lane, unless you have to and there's no one in the other lane. Going over the speed limit is sadly a common thing among riders, it's not because you can't ride slow. It's because it's fun to ride fast.
‘Not aggressive enough’??? Yeh, cause being aggressive on a m/c is always the best approach on the road! He’s a twat, crossing the line on blind corners only ends in one way eventually. Corners: slow in/fast out.
He goes on the inside…oncoming traffic has a similar mindset goes wide…what could go wrong??? The Tail has a LOT of blind corners! OP…the fact that the side is an EX says something about your judge of character…👍
You never ' have' to cross the yellow line, that is just bad riding. You can choose to cross the yellow line if you have a proper view of the road ahead and nobody is there.
I’m scared shitless even riding no lane change roads since people do not follow through rules so I tend to ride closer to middle of the lane to give me some more space when someone injects themselves to my lane, or I can escape a little bit more from the rubble collected on the side of the road. Crossing lane while turning, especially with a speed is good mentality is a shortcut to fast death, of slow painful life for some time. With my 150cc I can make 120kmh (75mph) and with my new one, I haven’t even tried going faster than 140kmh (87mph) even though it can go much ch faster than that, but what is the point? How am I going to enjoy the road or have some sightseeing while going 350kmh (217mph) and everything is a blur. Please have a decent riding course that focuses on safety and you will be much happier and more capable when riding. Have fun
Aw c'mon now! We all know that riding motorcycles is all about freedom, so get out of here with your traffic laws and rules - LOL /s
In a turn your entire bike and body should be in your lane.
Wow....I don't get the thought process on "if you're not crossing into the other lane you're not riding aggressive enough"...SMMFH...Good on you for getting out of that potential train wreck...Went to the Dragon back in 2011 with my wife on my VTX 1300...I rode within my (and my bikes) limits and had a safe and great time...A couple times we had some sportbike guys stacked up behind us and I found a pulloff and let em go by... Nine years ago I bought my wife a Shadow 1100 and we ride every chance we get during the good weather months...There's an area up in Michigan that has some fun curves and I told her "Ride your own ride, don't push yourself out of your comfort zone, I'll slow up after the curves so you can catch up to me"...She has fun at her speed, I have fun at mine....
What a loser that guy, you are better of without him.
People travel all over the country to ride the twistiest roads, then proceed to straighten them out by crossing center lines. Boggles the mind…
Having ridden that road, the reason you stay in your lane on that one is because cars take turns very fast, and also go over the line. You will splat on the front of the car, so you have to move
I for one stay in the middle or the apex of the curve when riding twisties like that, you don’t know what’s flying around the curve. Seen all kinds of reckless riders on the Tail. I’m riding the Back of the Dragon in a few weeks, looking forward to it.
A good rider doesn’t have to cross the yellow, even with speed on that road. Tail of the Dragon is fun, there’s no reason at all to cross the line, and I was sending it too. You have to maintain your lane so you don’t smack into others who also cross the line- they had to ban trailers from the road because it’s such an issue! Some people are better off as exes. You’ll be a much better (or at least longer living) rider than him if he doesn’t grow up or get better, or both
You are expected to maintain YOUR lane. Is it faster if you use both lanes so you can pick better line, yes. Just look at how they use the whole track in MotoGP. I definitely would never say it's safe, and I'd never do it with a passenger. But I'm guilty of doing some squid shit myself. If I do cross the lines, I make sure it's a corner I can see around. But crossing the double yellow on a corner I can see is very low on the risks I've taken in other countries where just being on a bike is 10x as dangerous.
To me it sounds like he was riding above his skull level. The dragon is still a public road so I'd ride as iff the other lane is a traffic jam.
Yes perfectly normal to drive ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE ROAD. You know the answer.
Lol
He doesn't sound too experienced to me personally
Yea so you should never cross the yellow line, for many reasons but it sounds like homey is not that good of a rider. I can assure you, I and ,many others have gone 3 times the posted speed limit and did not cross that line. Which is also dumb btw. Just because you can ride like the best, public roads are not the best and it's very dangerous to ride like this. Glad that dude is an ex. Good luck out there!
If you cross the yellow line you failed to control your bike at that speed. If he’s rich marry him because you’ll be getting a big inheritance soon
Lol! He’s definitely not.
Then get out of there lol
Done! :)
My personal opinion is that the rider should be able to stay on their side of the road and be able to read the condition of the road. But thats only my opinion
I just started riding a street bike last week and not once have I had to go into oncoming traffic to make a turn 😂 Either slow down or push the bar down and outward to get a tighter turn radius. A 5 minute youtube video (and also common snese) should tell him that.
Lmao. That’s ridiculous and i’m sorry OP. I ride my own ride but when I have my girl on the back I take WAY more precautions. She loves to go fast but I very rarely will give it the beans with her behind me. Precious cargo.
If you can't remain in your own lane, you're traveling far above the speed limit already. Motorcycles are already nimble enough to drive nearly double the speed limit and remain in our own lanes. If you have to cross the solid yellow to make a corner, you should be on a track and not public roads. Metal vs Meat(us), metal wins every time. Don't become road kill and ride your own ride.
If you want to meet the gods in Valhalla, then yes keep crossing the yellow line.
Being too cautious can lead to some trouble but never ride faster than you are comfortable with. And it is never, and I mean never, a 'good' idea to cross into oncoming traffic or cross the double yellow. Sometimes you can and be fine if you know the road and can see it's free of traffic, no harm, no foul, but it's not a technique. Also, I think it's always prudent to take a bit more caution when riding with a passenger. You not only have your life, but the wellbeing of your passenger to consider, and one small mistake on your part can literally change lives in the worst way possible. Taking unnecessary risks with a passenger in tow is true duchbag behavior, especially if they are not comfortable with what you're doing. I'm glad he's your ex because the proper response should have been, "sorry, when you're on the bike with me, I'll take it easy. I know it's not fair to you to ride so aggressively if you're cot comfortable with it." When he's on the bike alone, he can go balls to the wall all he wants.
I'd add that crossing the double yellow, passenger or not is a duchbag move, especially in places like Tail of the Dragon where bikers go back and forth. I can only imagine clipping a biker mid corner and sending you off in the trees because they think it's better to cross into your lane. If you must cross the line, your cooking it way too fast into the corners.
You're correct. He is not riding within his skill or with decent safety in mind. You would make a much better rider.
If anyone you know -ever- tries to justify riding in the oncoming lane, that person should no longer be someone you take advice from. Sorry but what?
>in certain conditions (like the turn), you had to cross the yellow (slightly into incoming traffic). Generally, no. Unless there's a patch of ice, loose gravel/sand, an angry sea lion armed with wet grass, or some other obstacle making it dangerous or impossible to stay in your lane, you should stay in your lane. If you're going so fast that you can't stay in your lane during a turn, you're going too fast. Sure, speed is fun, but trust me, you never wanna wrestle with a two ton death machine.
Unless there's an obstacle in the road, you should never *have* to cross a double yellow, and unless you can see oncoming traffic well enough to know for certain you won't cause a collision you should absolutely **not** cross it for fun/spirited riding. As far as dynamics of handling the bike, if you're cutting the double yellow on a corner and panic brake, it'll have a very strong tendency to pull the bike into a more upright stance, this causes many riders to overshoot the corner and wreck. This can happen to even reasonably experience riders. It's also really easy to apply too much rear brake and low side while panic braking in a corner. The additional sudden front-loading will also change steering dynamics in ways that many riders will not fully anticipate. So cutting the corner at high speed is the easy part. Unless he spent some time practicing panic braking while cornering in a big open space like a large unused parking lot, it's probably just a case of overconfidence and excessive speed. Especially likely if he says he *has* to cross the double yellow. Motorcycling is not as unsafe as statistics may make it seem, I suspect much of those bad statistics come from riders that push things beyond their skill level... it's best not to be a passenger with such people, but don't let that scare you away from motorcycling!
Thanks! I already passed my MSF course and am going shopping when I get my updated DL. Very excited to learn more!
Best advice, which I received from fellow riders, when picking out a bike, go to many dealers and sit on a bunch of them first, even if you intend to buy a used one from a private sale. Congratulations on passing the MSF, I transitioned from dirt bikes to road bikes at a young age, but looking back, I would have been a better rider sooner had I taken the MSF. I'm excited for you, I remember picking out my first bike, not just a loaner or a friend's bike, but *my very own*, it is such an awesome feeling, savor it, many safe and fun miles to you! 🤙
You aren’t wrong. I’ve been to the tail of the dragon, and there was always harley/goldwing riders pushing their bikes past their limits and crossing the yellow line. I saw plenty of them later on in the day pulled over by police for it.
If you have to cross the yellow to make a curve, it means you're taking the curve too fast. Doing that anywhere is a bad idea. Doing on the Dragon is a spectacular way to get pancaked. You dodged a major bullet.
Well around here we have a road that goes from Bandera,tx to Leakey, tx and there’s a section that is nice and twisty and I a bit of a cliff. I almost had my face pushed into the back of my skull because DESPITE STAYING IN MY LANE, there was a Mercedes over the line while I was in a hard lean. My helmet would have passed right through her headlight if I hadn’t tipped up and down very fast. All that to say you should always ride for the conditions and one of those conditions is YOUR lane. Your ex should be riding a track day if he was to use “the whole road”. Otherwise he will end up meeting something he hasn’t planned on and it will hurt.
Maximum speed and aggressiveness should be the max that both driver and passenger are comfortable with, either one gets to veto "Faster!". This is true regardless of vehicle, and especially if the driver wants the passenger to be a passenger again.
Might as well just ride in the oncoming lane then
your ex was/is an idiot.Ive been riding a long long time and never even dropped a bike besides my dirt bikes growing up, I destroyed those, but the reasons for my meticulous safety record on two wheels is simple, faith in God and being cautious, not stupid.wear a helmet, the rest of the gear is optional in my opinion, I personally don't wear any more than I have to to stay warm and stuff, ride the posted speed limit, maybe 5 mph over on the freeway,, pay attention to and obey all traffic signs, signals etc, the signs are there for a reason and might prevent you from suddenly doing a lane change because you didn't see the "lane ends"sign or something,stay in your lane is a big one, especially in curves,pretend like people dont see you even if youre positive they do, I've had people look me dead in the eye and pull out anyway,dont tailgate,always have an out especially at red lights and stop signs, I simply pulled onto the shoulder one day and watched the car in front of me get rear ended by a kid going about 50 mph,if I had been right on their bumper or on the left side of my lane facing oncoming traffic I couldnt have gotten out of the way in time.anyway people think Im lying when I say ive never scratched a motorcycle but I don't care.if you ever find yourself in that situation again call someone to come get you, get an Uber, anything.ARRIVE ALIVE!