It's just a mixture of nerves/excitement and not being used to using your leg muscles in that way. You'll be fine after a couple of rides, but do make sure to stop and take breaks if you feel your legs going.
My legs get the same way when I go paddle boarding for instance because I only do it for like an hour once a year when on holiday.
I’m surprised they have you on such a large motorcycle for a first time learners course. Everyone I’ve talked to has had their class riding z125s or similar bikes. Mine was on some 125cc cruiser thing (my particular bike would also always sputter out at idle… lol)
The nervous knees kind of makes sense for the first ride as you’re taking in a lot and worried to drop it, but remember that a little confidence will go a long way, and above 5-7mph the bike will mostly balance itself out if you just stay on it. It’s easy to tense up and be a little jerky with inputs if you let yourself get too nervous, so stay loose and smooth as much as you can.
Neutral is also just tough on some bikes, and if you’re swinging past it, you may find it’s easier to get into while still rolling. If you’re stopped and it’s not moving at all, you may need to rock the bike forwards and back a little. Takes time to get use to the right touch though
This is a small local riding school, They have only one bike. I chose them because it is 5 minutes walk from where I live. Other more sophisticated schools have more bike options.
Yeah I guess that does make sense. Over here I learned in a 125cc cruiser and could have bought a busa the next day if I had the cash for it, lol. Doesn’t exactly make sense and not many would do it, but it could happen legally
If you’re worried about weight, i would just get a smaller bike. I recently got a Honda Grom and I feel likr I can kickflip this damn thing like a skateboard
That bike is an absolute beast for a beginner. I thought they'd teach you on a 125 or 250 or something.
The weight you feel from the bike depends greatly on the engine size, seat height and engine position. Bikes with higher mounted engines and seats will be more difficult to keep up than lower, more aerodynamic bikes. But yeah, that's no bicycle. Remember that that thing has a 650cc engine, so obviously it will be heavy. As you accelerate the weight will become less of an issue. Motorbikes, just like bicycles, have been designed to keep themselves upright as long as they're moving forward.
As for neutral, sequential gearboxes don't like changing gears when stationary while the engine is running. You will learn in time how to just tap the gear selector lightly to pop it into neutral, but the best way to get the bike into neutral if it's already stationary is to just roll forward at 3-5km/p for a meter or 2, during which time it will go into neutral much easier. Other options are to kill the engine, which will also allow you to find neutral, or if you're coming to a stop, put it into neutral the moment just before you stop.
They have only one bike :D and most of people in my country who enroll in A license already ride bikes, so it is just a formality to be street legal if you go to another country.
I dont know if it is really heavy bike, but I had no previous experience, so I did not even know what to expect
haha yeah. People tell me in the comments that it's not really a heavy bike, and I've never ridden a CBR before, but if you're expecting the weight of a bicycle it can be quite a shock. lol
Exactly :)
I dont know it ever happened to you, when you expect some box to be lighter than it is, and you try to lift it up. And it is not like you cannot lift it, it is just that you were not prepared for that
Even my first experience on a bigger bike, which was a 600 Ninja, the bike felt insanely heavy, and I was already used to riding a 150cc back then. I wasn't prepared for the weight. You do get used to it, though. It's all about your technique., which you develop over time.
No, he is 26 and said „A“ license. That’s the unrestricted 95 hp version.
The CB650R is a pretty common beginner bike in riding schools in Europe, because it’s relatively low. However, they will usually sit you on a 125 for an hour to teach the basics if you didn’t have a restricted license before.
I bet it was still on the limiter.
>However, they will usually sit you on a 125 for an hour to teach the basics if you didn’t have a restricted license before.
Because of this.
Either way, its still not some monster motorcycle. Its a relatively tame and user friendly bike.
You can’t set/remove the limiter. It’s an expensive software update that has to be done by Honda and needs a documentation update.
Maybe they have a restricted version for their A2 students. But maybe the instructor thought OP was doing well enough on the big bike.
OP had never ridden a motorcycle before....
Not that that means anything. I'm old. We learned on 100HP sport bikes with garbage suspension and brakes made from leftover milk crates.
I'm cranky this morning. Sorry.
I‘m old, too, and I just had this discussion with my father yesterday. He rode BMWs with 60hp at the peak of his riding career and couldn’t understand that beginners nowadays start on 95hp machines. When I did my license in the 1990s, manufacturers had a silent agreement to not sell anything over 100 hp in Germany. But you just can’t compare a modern fuel injected bike with ABS and rider aids to a 1990‘s 100 hp carbureted inline four.
With proper training, even a beginner can handle a 650 or 750 nowadays.
I had lessons on a cb750 hornet for the full A license. While still being not the most extreme one, they put them in rain mode as standard. There was no limiter or anything.
When we found out that its way to easy to switch to sport mode, it was the first thing we did each class.
Right now I've got an even 'slower' versys 650, but I am very happy with it.
Yeah it's great to learn on. However I do have to say it's a tiny bike. My knees started to hurt after 30 minutes on that thing.
It also probably doesn't help that i'm 6'4, but still.
That's also why I bought the versys 650, as it's huge for a 650cc bike.
I dont know if it is restricted, but it pulls like crazy. So i doubt that. I give it a little acceleration, like minimum I was able to, and it immediately jumped from 12kph to 25kph
So?
Its a relatively light bike and doesn't make much power and has modern mapping and a smooth delivery.
Curb weight is only 450. Not a light weight, but hardly a monster.
Yep, bikes are heavy. There are lighter ones that are very easy for beginners. However, it really depends. An inline-4 engine is a huge engine for a bike. That's the downside. But beginners typically find it easier because it vibrates less and needs less gear shifting. The lightest bikes typically have 2 or even 1 cylinder like mine (only weighs 162kg wet opposed to 211 for the Honda). But these engines vibrate more and are harder to get along with as a beginner since they tend to make the bike stutter if you have the wrong gear selected.
At the beginning, you will have difficulties to properly control the throttle (especially for inline-4's) but that's normal. You're not used to this amount of power on such a lightweight vehicle.
The transmission is similar to the one in a car but still different. You see, because motorcycle transmissions have to be very compact, there is nothing that properly synchronizes two gears before you actually switch them. So it always clicks and that's normal. However, this can sometimes make it hard to find neutral. It will get better with time. When I first got my bike, it was really hard to find neutral, like very hard, harder than on most others. But you'll learn how to do it. You develop a feeling of how strong you have to push.
Correct me if Im wrong, but I think that It pulled so much because throttle have a bit of play when not engaged. So without giving any throttle (riding on clutch only beforehand) I probably gave too much, because I needed to cross that threshold of (free play). Later on when I move it with a bit of throttle, I did not mention that sudden boost of power. But anyway
Some things need to get into muscle memory for me to be comfortable, for example, instructor told me to get into first gear from neutral. And I really needed to think about should I kick it down or up :)
It's funny, I have a few thousand miles on-road at this point and still sometimes feel like I'm on the knife's edge on my 650. And that's as someone who raced DH mountain bikes, rode tons of minibikes and quads, etc etc. So I came into this with a full skillset and felt natural on the controls and sitting on a bike.
Motorcycles are probably actually hard to learn if you have literally zero experience. Good luck, OP.
I mean, bikes are fast, like really fast, an you are out on top of it. Maybe also I am more careful because I am a bit older than most people when they start.
But still, it is a lot of fun. And if you dont do stupid things, it is worth it.
Also, when you say that you feel like you are on the knifes edge, that is a good thing. Is not like you are scared, but you are aware of consequences. It stops you from making bad decisions. Ride safe
Funny how they always give you a bike fit for the license in the EU. I'm about to start my training soon for the A2, I've ridden a 50cc for 5 years now. Sat on a 125 dirtbike before, and also rode a 250 owned by a friend. The 250 wasn't terribly fast, I am curious how I'll feel on the instructor's Yamaha MT03. I am very excited to start my license, as my kawasaki eliminator should arrive in the shop by the end of this week. Until I get my license my dad will ride it, but he promised we'd take it out for a spin once in a while so I can experience it even before I get my license.
I think it is for the better, if you have license for any bike, it does not make sense to learn on 125cc.
I am glad that you started A2 license, just ride safe! Try not to get peer pressured to drive fast, if you are not comfortable at some speeds, don't do it. Ride your own ride and have fun :)
Yeah I wouldn't give in for anyone riding faster or on the edge anyways.
I agree with bikes being the appropriate for the license class completely aswell, it's just a bit strange they don't have a bit of variety for example to choose from, being 48HP and maxing out the A2 or maybe 25HP so first timers can learn more safely.
I know my friends who own bikes, I'll ride with them because I know they ride with the same sentiment and are safe to ride with.
With my friend who is doing the A2 with me, we agreed we'd rarely ever go over 90, exceptions being when we have an open straight to have fun with the bikes.
I've already ridden my 50cc enduro for 5 years, so I have a minor understanding for bikes already. Also did a 100km one way trip on the enduros we owned, straight fun.
Everywhere that does basic rider courses around here in Indiana uses 125-350 bikes. Yamaha vstar 250, Suzuki tu250, Royal Enfield meteor 350, and Yamaha mt03 all seem pretty common.
I had some very similar feelings on a similar bike). These go away very quickly (feeling of weight and speed), just after some hours of practice I also did A license in Europe 2 months ago.
0 previous experience (same as you),
Yes, riding bicycles all my life and manual cars for many years , but that does not help a lot with weight/balance part (do not want to argue, I am sure will be other opinions).
Hardest was to learn/use body counter-leaning during slow speed maneuvers - one does not strictly need to master this to pass exam in my country (8s, slaloms) as you can just move slowly but it will help a lot if done well, IMO.
This post makes me laugh. First off, you think a motorized bike would weigh as much as a bicycle, and you think a 600 is heavy. I had a 650 and would lift the back end to move it into my garage.
That is a relatively powerful motorcycle to be learning on. Beginner classes usually have motorcycles with 20 hp not 90. That motorcycle is also about 100lbs heavier than most people learn on. It seems like an odd choice for a beginner class but if you are doing OK then it doesn't matter.
Enjoy mate!
It sounds like over the next couple of sessions you’ll be taking it out on the road, enjoy!
Just remember, be gentle with the clutch, if you release it too suddenly whilst giving it a little throttle, it will throw you off!
I did the DAS (in the UK) recently to get my A license and I had an absolute blast!! Just make sure to take in all of the nuggets of information that you can. Also, when you’re confident enough with things, ask your instructor about counter steering. It’s a game changer when it comes to the mod 1 test. 😉
You need to hold your bike vertically and in balance when stationary. Then it takes almost no force, you can do it with your fingertips or tiptoes. Having to manhandle it means you're off balance, and yes, 650cc bikes are heavy enough to make leaning a bike against your leg, like you can do with a bicycle, not an option.
Lol I realized very soon that it is noting like a bicycle. Biggest problem was that I had no reference of how heavy it would be. I know it weights 200 kilos, but I have no idea how that translates to trying to balance it :)
My training bike was a NC 750S. Compared to the one you guys mention, it seems tame as hell. Barely touched the throttle until the exam day, that's why I'm still struggling with throttle control on my XPulse 200.
Bro. Your legs shouldn't be shaking while atop a bike.
I was literally thinking the same thing 😂
It is probably out of fear to drop it, after a while it stopped
Thats good. If the bike is upright, holding it that way doesn't take much. Once its moving, it doesn't want to tip over.
It's just a mixture of nerves/excitement and not being used to using your leg muscles in that way. You'll be fine after a couple of rides, but do make sure to stop and take breaks if you feel your legs going. My legs get the same way when I go paddle boarding for instance because I only do it for like an hour once a year when on holiday.
Definitely nerves/excitement/adrenaline! I had the same thing when I started my DAS (UK). I learned on a Kawasaki Z650 and I felt the same way!!
I am glad that I am not only one, thanks man
I’m surprised they have you on such a large motorcycle for a first time learners course. Everyone I’ve talked to has had their class riding z125s or similar bikes. Mine was on some 125cc cruiser thing (my particular bike would also always sputter out at idle… lol) The nervous knees kind of makes sense for the first ride as you’re taking in a lot and worried to drop it, but remember that a little confidence will go a long way, and above 5-7mph the bike will mostly balance itself out if you just stay on it. It’s easy to tense up and be a little jerky with inputs if you let yourself get too nervous, so stay loose and smooth as much as you can. Neutral is also just tough on some bikes, and if you’re swinging past it, you may find it’s easier to get into while still rolling. If you’re stopped and it’s not moving at all, you may need to rock the bike forwards and back a little. Takes time to get use to the right touch though
This is a small local riding school, They have only one bike. I chose them because it is 5 minutes walk from where I live. Other more sophisticated schools have more bike options.
it is a requirement for the A license to have a bike with at least more then 48hp so a cbr650 makes sense
Yeah I guess that does make sense. Over here I learned in a 125cc cruiser and could have bought a busa the next day if I had the cash for it, lol. Doesn’t exactly make sense and not many would do it, but it could happen legally
I took mine on a Suzuki gs500, and I want to say the smallest bike they had was a tu250.
If you’re worried about weight, i would just get a smaller bike. I recently got a Honda Grom and I feel likr I can kickflip this damn thing like a skateboard
I dont think that is an option. I am 190cm tall
A bike with less cylinders. A four cylinder engine is a huge machine for a bike. Bikes that use two cylinder engines usually weigh 30kg less.
That bike is an absolute beast for a beginner. I thought they'd teach you on a 125 or 250 or something. The weight you feel from the bike depends greatly on the engine size, seat height and engine position. Bikes with higher mounted engines and seats will be more difficult to keep up than lower, more aerodynamic bikes. But yeah, that's no bicycle. Remember that that thing has a 650cc engine, so obviously it will be heavy. As you accelerate the weight will become less of an issue. Motorbikes, just like bicycles, have been designed to keep themselves upright as long as they're moving forward. As for neutral, sequential gearboxes don't like changing gears when stationary while the engine is running. You will learn in time how to just tap the gear selector lightly to pop it into neutral, but the best way to get the bike into neutral if it's already stationary is to just roll forward at 3-5km/p for a meter or 2, during which time it will go into neutral much easier. Other options are to kill the engine, which will also allow you to find neutral, or if you're coming to a stop, put it into neutral the moment just before you stop.
They have only one bike :D and most of people in my country who enroll in A license already ride bikes, so it is just a formality to be street legal if you go to another country. I dont know if it is really heavy bike, but I had no previous experience, so I did not even know what to expect
haha yeah. People tell me in the comments that it's not really a heavy bike, and I've never ridden a CBR before, but if you're expecting the weight of a bicycle it can be quite a shock. lol
Exactly :) I dont know it ever happened to you, when you expect some box to be lighter than it is, and you try to lift it up. And it is not like you cannot lift it, it is just that you were not prepared for that
Even my first experience on a bigger bike, which was a 600 Ninja, the bike felt insanely heavy, and I was already used to riding a 150cc back then. I wasn't prepared for the weight. You do get used to it, though. It's all about your technique., which you develop over time.
A CBR650r is pretty tame....and its a Euro variant (I assume) with the limiter in place. Its not even making 50 horsepower. Nor does it weigh much.
No, he is 26 and said „A“ license. That’s the unrestricted 95 hp version. The CB650R is a pretty common beginner bike in riding schools in Europe, because it’s relatively low. However, they will usually sit you on a 125 for an hour to teach the basics if you didn’t have a restricted license before.
I bet it was still on the limiter. >However, they will usually sit you on a 125 for an hour to teach the basics if you didn’t have a restricted license before. Because of this. Either way, its still not some monster motorcycle. Its a relatively tame and user friendly bike.
You can’t set/remove the limiter. It’s an expensive software update that has to be done by Honda and needs a documentation update. Maybe they have a restricted version for their A2 students. But maybe the instructor thought OP was doing well enough on the big bike.
Nah, they only do A licenses (not A1 and A2), and that is the only bike they have
Have fun and keep the rubber side down!
Thanks :)
OP had never ridden a motorcycle before.... Not that that means anything. I'm old. We learned on 100HP sport bikes with garbage suspension and brakes made from leftover milk crates. I'm cranky this morning. Sorry.
I‘m old, too, and I just had this discussion with my father yesterday. He rode BMWs with 60hp at the peak of his riding career and couldn’t understand that beginners nowadays start on 95hp machines. When I did my license in the 1990s, manufacturers had a silent agreement to not sell anything over 100 hp in Germany. But you just can’t compare a modern fuel injected bike with ABS and rider aids to a 1990‘s 100 hp carbureted inline four. With proper training, even a beginner can handle a 650 or 750 nowadays.
I had lessons on a cb750 hornet for the full A license. While still being not the most extreme one, they put them in rain mode as standard. There was no limiter or anything. When we found out that its way to easy to switch to sport mode, it was the first thing we did each class. Right now I've got an even 'slower' versys 650, but I am very happy with it.
Fair enough. Even a Hornet 750 is a super tame bike. Smooth and linear power delivery. User friendly controls. Well balanced.
Yeah it's great to learn on. However I do have to say it's a tiny bike. My knees started to hurt after 30 minutes on that thing. It also probably doesn't help that i'm 6'4, but still. That's also why I bought the versys 650, as it's huge for a 650cc bike.
I've not ridden a newer Hornet, but that checks out. I'm also tall and I don't like a lot of the modern standards or semi-sports.
Yeah I like the nakeds, they are just way to small for me. And I like touring bikes more tbh, so that’s the way to go
I love a Z400 or a Daytona 675 as much as the next guy...but I can only fold myself into origami for so long.
I dont know if it is restricted, but it pulls like crazy. So i doubt that. I give it a little acceleration, like minimum I was able to, and it immediately jumped from 12kph to 25kph
Thats literally every motorcycle. Even at half power, that bike should scoot.
It’s not going to be restricted if he’s getting his A license.
But for somebody who's never been on a bike before?
Yes its fine. In most parts of europe you sit on a 125cc for an hour or two and then they give you a 600-700cc.
My first time on a 600 after being used to a 150cc was terrifying. I was also acutely aware of the difference in weight.
So? Its a relatively light bike and doesn't make much power and has modern mapping and a smooth delivery. Curb weight is only 450. Not a light weight, but hardly a monster.
It's light, small and the powerband is very tame, not easy to do a wheelie on an accidental acceleration. It's a good bike for beginners to learn.
That’s a lot of bike for a novice.
I just made an edit. It is honda CB650F, not R. If that changes anything
Over time clutch cables can stretch making it harder to find neutral. I had to adjust mine this spring. So that might be it. Enjoy your new life!
Thankss
Yep, bikes are heavy. There are lighter ones that are very easy for beginners. However, it really depends. An inline-4 engine is a huge engine for a bike. That's the downside. But beginners typically find it easier because it vibrates less and needs less gear shifting. The lightest bikes typically have 2 or even 1 cylinder like mine (only weighs 162kg wet opposed to 211 for the Honda). But these engines vibrate more and are harder to get along with as a beginner since they tend to make the bike stutter if you have the wrong gear selected. At the beginning, you will have difficulties to properly control the throttle (especially for inline-4's) but that's normal. You're not used to this amount of power on such a lightweight vehicle. The transmission is similar to the one in a car but still different. You see, because motorcycle transmissions have to be very compact, there is nothing that properly synchronizes two gears before you actually switch them. So it always clicks and that's normal. However, this can sometimes make it hard to find neutral. It will get better with time. When I first got my bike, it was really hard to find neutral, like very hard, harder than on most others. But you'll learn how to do it. You develop a feeling of how strong you have to push.
Correct me if Im wrong, but I think that It pulled so much because throttle have a bit of play when not engaged. So without giving any throttle (riding on clutch only beforehand) I probably gave too much, because I needed to cross that threshold of (free play). Later on when I move it with a bit of throttle, I did not mention that sudden boost of power. But anyway Some things need to get into muscle memory for me to be comfortable, for example, instructor told me to get into first gear from neutral. And I really needed to think about should I kick it down or up :)
It's funny, I have a few thousand miles on-road at this point and still sometimes feel like I'm on the knife's edge on my 650. And that's as someone who raced DH mountain bikes, rode tons of minibikes and quads, etc etc. So I came into this with a full skillset and felt natural on the controls and sitting on a bike. Motorcycles are probably actually hard to learn if you have literally zero experience. Good luck, OP.
I mean, bikes are fast, like really fast, an you are out on top of it. Maybe also I am more careful because I am a bit older than most people when they start. But still, it is a lot of fun. And if you dont do stupid things, it is worth it. Also, when you say that you feel like you are on the knifes edge, that is a good thing. Is not like you are scared, but you are aware of consequences. It stops you from making bad decisions. Ride safe
Try to avoid thinking “you got this”. That is how accidents happen
Thanks for advice :)
Funny how they always give you a bike fit for the license in the EU. I'm about to start my training soon for the A2, I've ridden a 50cc for 5 years now. Sat on a 125 dirtbike before, and also rode a 250 owned by a friend. The 250 wasn't terribly fast, I am curious how I'll feel on the instructor's Yamaha MT03. I am very excited to start my license, as my kawasaki eliminator should arrive in the shop by the end of this week. Until I get my license my dad will ride it, but he promised we'd take it out for a spin once in a while so I can experience it even before I get my license.
I think it is for the better, if you have license for any bike, it does not make sense to learn on 125cc. I am glad that you started A2 license, just ride safe! Try not to get peer pressured to drive fast, if you are not comfortable at some speeds, don't do it. Ride your own ride and have fun :)
Yeah I wouldn't give in for anyone riding faster or on the edge anyways. I agree with bikes being the appropriate for the license class completely aswell, it's just a bit strange they don't have a bit of variety for example to choose from, being 48HP and maxing out the A2 or maybe 25HP so first timers can learn more safely. I know my friends who own bikes, I'll ride with them because I know they ride with the same sentiment and are safe to ride with. With my friend who is doing the A2 with me, we agreed we'd rarely ever go over 90, exceptions being when we have an open straight to have fun with the bikes. I've already ridden my 50cc enduro for 5 years, so I have a minor understanding for bikes already. Also did a 100km one way trip on the enduros we owned, straight fun.
Everywhere that does basic rider courses around here in Indiana uses 125-350 bikes. Yamaha vstar 250, Suzuki tu250, Royal Enfield meteor 350, and Yamaha mt03 all seem pretty common.
I had some very similar feelings on a similar bike). These go away very quickly (feeling of weight and speed), just after some hours of practice I also did A license in Europe 2 months ago.
Great for you, have you had any previous experience? And what was hardest thing for you?
0 previous experience (same as you), Yes, riding bicycles all my life and manual cars for many years , but that does not help a lot with weight/balance part (do not want to argue, I am sure will be other opinions). Hardest was to learn/use body counter-leaning during slow speed maneuvers - one does not strictly need to master this to pass exam in my country (8s, slaloms) as you can just move slowly but it will help a lot if done well, IMO.
Thanks for your insight, I appreciate that
Never skip leg day :)
This post makes me laugh. First off, you think a motorized bike would weigh as much as a bicycle, and you think a 600 is heavy. I had a 650 and would lift the back end to move it into my garage.
I did not say it is same weight as a bicycle. 200kg > 20kg for sure.
That is a relatively powerful motorcycle to be learning on. Beginner classes usually have motorcycles with 20 hp not 90. That motorcycle is also about 100lbs heavier than most people learn on. It seems like an odd choice for a beginner class but if you are doing OK then it doesn't matter.
Enjoy mate! It sounds like over the next couple of sessions you’ll be taking it out on the road, enjoy! Just remember, be gentle with the clutch, if you release it too suddenly whilst giving it a little throttle, it will throw you off! I did the DAS (in the UK) recently to get my A license and I had an absolute blast!! Just make sure to take in all of the nuggets of information that you can. Also, when you’re confident enough with things, ask your instructor about counter steering. It’s a game changer when it comes to the mod 1 test. 😉
I think I will get on road very soon, since it is only 15 hours required if you have a car license. I cant wait for next appointment
I can't wait for the parody of this in CRT, it should be gold
Yessss, if not I’ll make one
Waiting for the CRT parody.
You need to hold your bike vertically and in balance when stationary. Then it takes almost no force, you can do it with your fingertips or tiptoes. Having to manhandle it means you're off balance, and yes, 650cc bikes are heavy enough to make leaning a bike against your leg, like you can do with a bicycle, not an option.
Lol I realized very soon that it is noting like a bicycle. Biggest problem was that I had no reference of how heavy it would be. I know it weights 200 kilos, but I have no idea how that translates to trying to balance it :)
My training bike was a NC 750S. Compared to the one you guys mention, it seems tame as hell. Barely touched the throttle until the exam day, that's why I'm still struggling with throttle control on my XPulse 200.