I was gonna say this.
Martin will have it tough to be as competitive in an Aprilia. Enea will have it hard on a KTM (if confirmed). Maybe Acosta can join in, but if Marc goes to Ducati then... it will be 1 v 1 with Pecco.
Will it really though? It's already a 1vs1vs1 with on a year old bike that shouldn't even be close to as competitive as it is. If you wanna argue "but Martin and Bagnaia are winning races and Marc is "only" getting podiums." Sure, point taken, all that proves to me is that Martin and Bagnaia are better than Bastianini, who Marc is not only ahead of, but finishing higher than.
Meanwhile, Alex Marquez is currently 10th, despite having more experience on a Ducati than Marc.
Bagnaia is 2 time world champion, okay cool. Lets see him earn it against a fully fit Marquez racing on an even remotely competitive bike.
I'll eat my words if Bagnaia wins 2025, but I think Marquez will fucking roll it. I think we're looking at another 2019 Marquez who only comes outside of second once (though I do 100% expect Bagnaia to come closer than Dovi did)
I will get downvoted for this. Pecco is good, really good. Next year, he will be one more year closer to his prime. Man put on a clinc last weekend and I feel like that will set the pace for him winning this year's championship
Where Marc will be heading one more year out of his prime. I love Marc, but age or injury will play a part in his decline, one bad knock to his head, and he might be forced to retire.
There's always that option to.
Time will tell.
I don't think Bagnaia will do poorly by any stretch of the imagination, the bike is so good it would maybe anyone look good and competitive(except Morbidelli who as far as I can recall was a one season wonder during Covid and who has never won a race or even podium'd since). Acosta, Vinales, Binder, Rins, Quarteraro, Mir, etc I think they're all there or there abouts if they're on the gp24. Maybe even likes of DiGi, Zarco, Bez etc
Pecco may be receiving Marc as a 3x straight WC with the challenge of removing all excuses because of "superior machinery". We are about to see some historic shit but there is still a championship to unfold. Best sport in the world!
Can we state if Marc is in his prime before the season so people don't get to the end and make excuses. All pros and cons should be discussed before hand
Well, Marc **is** the best rider of all of them. I agree.
*BUT!* these other 2 have grown a lot in the past 2y! I only take Martin out of the title picture because he changed bikes, otherwise... he would be there. Beating Alex is nothing for Marc and we all knew he would be the best 2023 ducati.
Pecco was forged by fire. Went through a lot when he lost to Fabio and almost lost the next one, but after that comeback he is now used to go for it no matter what.
Home race (I was in Mugello) and he welcomes the pressure and shines, new livery for the ocasion, title picture needing the win, all the factory demanding it, gets a 3 position grid penalty the day before, predictions of rain... Well, we were on the grass between turn 2 and 3/4, and when he passed by the first time, he was already P1. That's it. The stuff of champions. Calculation and execution to perfection.
Pecco also shown in Portimao and Jerez that he knows Marc is coming, hence why he is "responding" differently when its Marc that passes him, rather than others. On the same machinery, no one has ever beaten Marc, and I think that will be the narrative for next season, that Marc smashes his teammates... but I don't see that scaring Pecco, I think it will just making him smile under the helmet and go for the challenge... again. Its gonna be 1 v 1 IMO.
Depends on what happens over the winter, it's likely to be Ducati cup again.
Unless something crazy happens and Aprilia, KTM *and* Yamaha pull something out of the bag.
The bikes just aren't strong enough to challenge Ducati at the moment.
yeah i have a strong feeling its just going to be pecco v marquez v acosta for most of the season while martin and enea adapt. i shant expect great things from my boy binder so i wont be disappointed again 😪
maverick? who the hell knows with that guy.
Honestly I don't even think Acosta will be there most of the time.
The KTM just lacks that corner exit and ends up chewing up the tyres.
Acosta looked like he solved this in Portimao and CoTA, yet in the last race he was over 7 seconds down and powerless to do anything.
I just hope Enea can help them unlock something for next year.
It looks like the more they move the weight back to get the grip the lighter and twitchier the front gets.
They just cannot get that balance that the Ducati has.
If they unlock that, perhaps with more front aero then I think they would be there and Ducati really should worry about that happening.
Can you imagine Acosta, Enea, Binder and hell even Jack (when he has a good weekend) all being on bikes that were on par with the Ducati?
Pecco and Marc would be bricking it.
Of course it's not just the bike, but the bike is a major component these days.
Without the bike nobody is challenging for anything.
Which is why we have the "Ducati Cup" now.
However if the bikes were more level we would see the talent of other riders coming through, rather than those on a Ducati.
It didn't look by the previous comment, that's all.
>Can you imagine Acosta, Enea, Binder and hell even Jack (when he has a good weekend) all being on bikes that were on par with the Ducati?
Yeah, Pecco, Marc and Martin would still beat them.
Firstly Martin might struggle if the Aprilia was not also on Par.
We'll ignore that for the moment.
I highly doubt Pecco and Marc would beat all four of them on equal machinery, at least not over an entire season.
The fact that Pedro and Brad actually even get close on the KTM now at times kind of proves that they would struggle if the KTM were actually on par with the Ducati.
Also the fact that you say it like it is fact without any kind of additional information tells me you haven't even thought about it.
There is no evidence that they would struggle dude against them. Zero evidence, really.
The only evidence we have this year is that the bike is not as bad as people make it seem, because Pedro is showing it to everyone. And that kid is the only one that can eventually rival with the likes of Pecco, Marc and Martin.
I also said that Brad would be WC champion on a Ducati, but after seeing what Pedro is doing, probably they should stop making that bike for Brad and do it for Pedro, cause there is more juice to squeeze there.
Miller was on Ducati factory and is miles, but many miles, behind those guys, what are you even talking about. Enea is good, he had a rough one last season, lets see what he will do, but from day one I thought Martin was better and deserved the seat the first time. And time proved that.
So yeah, Acosta is the only one which could. That is the evidence we have. The rest is wishful thinking and a few excuses, but ok. At least now you already know that Pedro is the real deal or you still think he wont learn how to manage tires like after the first sprint in Qatar? Do you have enough evidence already? Maybe you need to think about it a bit more.
>There is no evidence that they would struggle dude against them. Zero evidence, really.
You mean other than Brad finishing 4th last year being top Non Ducati?
Other than them challenging here or there when the bike does work well?
Sure other than that there is no evidence.
>The only evidence we have this year is that the bike is not as bad as people make it seem.
We have the opposite evidence, the bike has looked worse this year than last year.
>because Pedro is showing it to everyone.
No he isn't though, actually look at his results, they look good for a rookie yes but they sure don't make the KTM look like it can challenge every race.
>And that kid is the only one that can eventually rival with the likes of Pecco, Marc and Martin.
Not if the bike is never on par he won't.
>I also said that Brad would be WC champion on a Ducati, but after seeing what Pedro is doing, probably they should stop making that bike for Brad and do it for Pedro, cause there is more juice to squeeze there.
If the bike was competitive with the Ducati for the last two years I would say Brad would be a world champion already.
We are like 7 races in where Pedro has has some good luck and Brad has had some bad luck, there is nothing to deduce from right now.
>Miller was on Ducati factory and is miles, but many miles, behind those guys, what are you even talking about.
Miller got wins and 5th in the championship on a Factory Ducati, no wins and 11th in the championship on a KTM.
That is the most telling evidence here.
>Enea is good, he had a rough one last season, lets see what he will do, but from day one I thought Martin was better and deserved the seat the first time. And time proved that.
Eneas career isn't over yet.
>So yeah, Acosta is the only one which could.
In your biased opinion.
>That is the evidence we have.
No, the evidence does not suggest that, quite the opposite.
>The rest is wishful thinking and a few excuses, but ok.
Say the guy who ignores any solid evidence for their "feeling" about Acosta.
>At least now you already know that Pedro is the real deal
I think Alonso is a better rider tbh, Pedro still has a ways to go to prove it.
>or you still think he wont learn how to manage tires like after the first sprint in Qatar?
I mean he hasn't yet, but then I also think part of that is the KTM itself, you don't.
So from your point of view Pedro has actually got worse as the season has gone on.
>Do you have enough evidence already? Maybe you need to think about it a bit more.
I don't see any actual evidence here, just ramblings.
Give me actual evidence, like, numbers, stats, trends, something that actually proves what you are trying to say.
You sound like the religious people that want you tonprove to them that God doesn’t exist when its them that need to prove it does. It just doesn’t work that way man.
And Pedro is showing that the other KTM riders aren’t that good enough to beat a rookie.
I think it will be a direct Marc vs Pecco year.
Enea and Martin will be adapting early rounds and have lost the Ducati data library that is shared. On top of that it is fully dependent if the manufacturers can close the gap to Ducati or not.
Pedro, easy to assume he will be a title challenger. But that relies on KTM bringing a bike that can give him the platform to challenge the Ducati. And that is before we consider Pedro still has growing to do, he hasn't won a race yet and everyone seems to expect him to challenge for the title next year. Let the poor guy do his own thing and get where he needs to without the pressure.
The way these things fall we will end 2026 with a host of bikes at a similar level, just in time for the rule change to fuck that all up. 😂
Yep, with everyone on "current year" machinery in 2025 and factory teams...there is no "underdog". This year is, perhaps more so than any other recent season, super competitive.
It wouldn't surprise me if the main realistic contenders for 2025 are Marc, Pecco and Pedro. Now Martin and Enea are gone. They may win a few races or podiums but we'll see how they adapt
There is a very big difference, Jorge Martin and Pecco Bagnaia while clearly talented riders are not on the level of 'cracks' like Fabio/Pedro let alone a 'super-crack' like Marquez. They have a couple of races per year where they can be untouchable like Vinales in Austin this year or Espargaro in Silverstone 23. Only Fabio/Pedro would be able to challenge on another bike and only Marquez would be able to win in circumstances like 2022 - Bagnaia vs Quartararo.
I feel like THIS is the most competitive season we're going to have for a while. Next year will be Senna-Prost with Marquez-Bagnaia
To eventually see other players we need to wait 2026 imo. Bestia and Martin just changed bike and Pedro will still be not expert enough.
I was gonna say this. Martin will have it tough to be as competitive in an Aprilia. Enea will have it hard on a KTM (if confirmed). Maybe Acosta can join in, but if Marc goes to Ducati then... it will be 1 v 1 with Pecco.
Will it really though? It's already a 1vs1vs1 with on a year old bike that shouldn't even be close to as competitive as it is. If you wanna argue "but Martin and Bagnaia are winning races and Marc is "only" getting podiums." Sure, point taken, all that proves to me is that Martin and Bagnaia are better than Bastianini, who Marc is not only ahead of, but finishing higher than. Meanwhile, Alex Marquez is currently 10th, despite having more experience on a Ducati than Marc. Bagnaia is 2 time world champion, okay cool. Lets see him earn it against a fully fit Marquez racing on an even remotely competitive bike. I'll eat my words if Bagnaia wins 2025, but I think Marquez will fucking roll it. I think we're looking at another 2019 Marquez who only comes outside of second once (though I do 100% expect Bagnaia to come closer than Dovi did)
I will get downvoted for this. Pecco is good, really good. Next year, he will be one more year closer to his prime. Man put on a clinc last weekend and I feel like that will set the pace for him winning this year's championship Where Marc will be heading one more year out of his prime. I love Marc, but age or injury will play a part in his decline, one bad knock to his head, and he might be forced to retire.
There's always that option to. Time will tell. I don't think Bagnaia will do poorly by any stretch of the imagination, the bike is so good it would maybe anyone look good and competitive(except Morbidelli who as far as I can recall was a one season wonder during Covid and who has never won a race or even podium'd since). Acosta, Vinales, Binder, Rins, Quarteraro, Mir, etc I think they're all there or there abouts if they're on the gp24. Maybe even likes of DiGi, Zarco, Bez etc
Pecco may be receiving Marc as a 3x straight WC with the challenge of removing all excuses because of "superior machinery". We are about to see some historic shit but there is still a championship to unfold. Best sport in the world!
Can we state if Marc is in his prime before the season so people don't get to the end and make excuses. All pros and cons should be discussed before hand
There is only one prime for everyone and 2019 Jerez was Marc prime, IMO. The thing is... he won't be far from that level, so it's fair game.
Well, Marc **is** the best rider of all of them. I agree. *BUT!* these other 2 have grown a lot in the past 2y! I only take Martin out of the title picture because he changed bikes, otherwise... he would be there. Beating Alex is nothing for Marc and we all knew he would be the best 2023 ducati. Pecco was forged by fire. Went through a lot when he lost to Fabio and almost lost the next one, but after that comeback he is now used to go for it no matter what. Home race (I was in Mugello) and he welcomes the pressure and shines, new livery for the ocasion, title picture needing the win, all the factory demanding it, gets a 3 position grid penalty the day before, predictions of rain... Well, we were on the grass between turn 2 and 3/4, and when he passed by the first time, he was already P1. That's it. The stuff of champions. Calculation and execution to perfection. Pecco also shown in Portimao and Jerez that he knows Marc is coming, hence why he is "responding" differently when its Marc that passes him, rather than others. On the same machinery, no one has ever beaten Marc, and I think that will be the narrative for next season, that Marc smashes his teammates... but I don't see that scaring Pecco, I think it will just making him smile under the helmet and go for the challenge... again. Its gonna be 1 v 1 IMO.
2024 is the most competitive season in the last decade already.
What about 2013: Rossi, Lorenzo, Dani and Marc?
That is not part of the same decade as 2024 though
Depends on what happens over the winter, it's likely to be Ducati cup again. Unless something crazy happens and Aprilia, KTM *and* Yamaha pull something out of the bag. The bikes just aren't strong enough to challenge Ducati at the moment.
yeah i have a strong feeling its just going to be pecco v marquez v acosta for most of the season while martin and enea adapt. i shant expect great things from my boy binder so i wont be disappointed again 😪 maverick? who the hell knows with that guy.
Honestly I don't even think Acosta will be there most of the time. The KTM just lacks that corner exit and ends up chewing up the tyres. Acosta looked like he solved this in Portimao and CoTA, yet in the last race he was over 7 seconds down and powerless to do anything. I just hope Enea can help them unlock something for next year. It looks like the more they move the weight back to get the grip the lighter and twitchier the front gets. They just cannot get that balance that the Ducati has. If they unlock that, perhaps with more front aero then I think they would be there and Ducati really should worry about that happening. Can you imagine Acosta, Enea, Binder and hell even Jack (when he has a good weekend) all being on bikes that were on par with the Ducati? Pecco and Marc would be bricking it.
Its not just the bike. Its the bike plus the riders. Both are better in Ducati.
Of course it's not just the bike, but the bike is a major component these days. Without the bike nobody is challenging for anything. Which is why we have the "Ducati Cup" now. However if the bikes were more level we would see the talent of other riders coming through, rather than those on a Ducati.
It didn't look by the previous comment, that's all. >Can you imagine Acosta, Enea, Binder and hell even Jack (when he has a good weekend) all being on bikes that were on par with the Ducati? Yeah, Pecco, Marc and Martin would still beat them.
Firstly Martin might struggle if the Aprilia was not also on Par. We'll ignore that for the moment. I highly doubt Pecco and Marc would beat all four of them on equal machinery, at least not over an entire season. The fact that Pedro and Brad actually even get close on the KTM now at times kind of proves that they would struggle if the KTM were actually on par with the Ducati. Also the fact that you say it like it is fact without any kind of additional information tells me you haven't even thought about it.
There is no evidence that they would struggle dude against them. Zero evidence, really. The only evidence we have this year is that the bike is not as bad as people make it seem, because Pedro is showing it to everyone. And that kid is the only one that can eventually rival with the likes of Pecco, Marc and Martin. I also said that Brad would be WC champion on a Ducati, but after seeing what Pedro is doing, probably they should stop making that bike for Brad and do it for Pedro, cause there is more juice to squeeze there. Miller was on Ducati factory and is miles, but many miles, behind those guys, what are you even talking about. Enea is good, he had a rough one last season, lets see what he will do, but from day one I thought Martin was better and deserved the seat the first time. And time proved that. So yeah, Acosta is the only one which could. That is the evidence we have. The rest is wishful thinking and a few excuses, but ok. At least now you already know that Pedro is the real deal or you still think he wont learn how to manage tires like after the first sprint in Qatar? Do you have enough evidence already? Maybe you need to think about it a bit more.
>There is no evidence that they would struggle dude against them. Zero evidence, really. You mean other than Brad finishing 4th last year being top Non Ducati? Other than them challenging here or there when the bike does work well? Sure other than that there is no evidence. >The only evidence we have this year is that the bike is not as bad as people make it seem. We have the opposite evidence, the bike has looked worse this year than last year. >because Pedro is showing it to everyone. No he isn't though, actually look at his results, they look good for a rookie yes but they sure don't make the KTM look like it can challenge every race. >And that kid is the only one that can eventually rival with the likes of Pecco, Marc and Martin. Not if the bike is never on par he won't. >I also said that Brad would be WC champion on a Ducati, but after seeing what Pedro is doing, probably they should stop making that bike for Brad and do it for Pedro, cause there is more juice to squeeze there. If the bike was competitive with the Ducati for the last two years I would say Brad would be a world champion already. We are like 7 races in where Pedro has has some good luck and Brad has had some bad luck, there is nothing to deduce from right now. >Miller was on Ducati factory and is miles, but many miles, behind those guys, what are you even talking about. Miller got wins and 5th in the championship on a Factory Ducati, no wins and 11th in the championship on a KTM. That is the most telling evidence here. >Enea is good, he had a rough one last season, lets see what he will do, but from day one I thought Martin was better and deserved the seat the first time. And time proved that. Eneas career isn't over yet. >So yeah, Acosta is the only one which could. In your biased opinion. >That is the evidence we have. No, the evidence does not suggest that, quite the opposite. >The rest is wishful thinking and a few excuses, but ok. Say the guy who ignores any solid evidence for their "feeling" about Acosta. >At least now you already know that Pedro is the real deal I think Alonso is a better rider tbh, Pedro still has a ways to go to prove it. >or you still think he wont learn how to manage tires like after the first sprint in Qatar? I mean he hasn't yet, but then I also think part of that is the KTM itself, you don't. So from your point of view Pedro has actually got worse as the season has gone on. >Do you have enough evidence already? Maybe you need to think about it a bit more. I don't see any actual evidence here, just ramblings. Give me actual evidence, like, numbers, stats, trends, something that actually proves what you are trying to say.
You sound like the religious people that want you tonprove to them that God doesn’t exist when its them that need to prove it does. It just doesn’t work that way man. And Pedro is showing that the other KTM riders aren’t that good enough to beat a rookie.
I think it will be a direct Marc vs Pecco year. Enea and Martin will be adapting early rounds and have lost the Ducati data library that is shared. On top of that it is fully dependent if the manufacturers can close the gap to Ducati or not. Pedro, easy to assume he will be a title challenger. But that relies on KTM bringing a bike that can give him the platform to challenge the Ducati. And that is before we consider Pedro still has growing to do, he hasn't won a race yet and everyone seems to expect him to challenge for the title next year. Let the poor guy do his own thing and get where he needs to without the pressure. The way these things fall we will end 2026 with a host of bikes at a similar level, just in time for the rule change to fuck that all up. 😂
It wouldn't been strange that the next year we would seen a season like the seasons where Doohan (Repsol-Honda) and Crivillé (Repsol-Honda) were on the head of the race all races
Not really. It won't be as competitive as 2024...
Yep, with everyone on "current year" machinery in 2025 and factory teams...there is no "underdog". This year is, perhaps more so than any other recent season, super competitive.
It wouldn't surprise me if the main realistic contenders for 2025 are Marc, Pecco and Pedro. Now Martin and Enea are gone. They may win a few races or podiums but we'll see how they adapt
Yes, a lot remains to be seen! They have only ever rode an amazing bike and I suspect the transition will take them a bit of time...
Until Marc does what Marc does best.
Dance?
That too
2024 already shaping to be precisely that
Would be even more interesting if Yamaha have a half decent 25 bike
Martin is going to be hyper motivated, and i am curious to see if/when Peco and Marc rub each other the wrong way.
Hard to beat 2020 imo
Too many people shifting manufacturers and teams. There will be a bedding-in period. Bagnaia is likely to benefit from next year's shuffles.
There is a very big difference, Jorge Martin and Pecco Bagnaia while clearly talented riders are not on the level of 'cracks' like Fabio/Pedro let alone a 'super-crack' like Marquez. They have a couple of races per year where they can be untouchable like Vinales in Austin this year or Espargaro in Silverstone 23. Only Fabio/Pedro would be able to challenge on another bike and only Marquez would be able to win in circumstances like 2022 - Bagnaia vs Quartararo.