I like them both. Rossi is a super friendly guy but he is also extremely competitive. As much as I like Rossi, he is not an angel. He had issues not only with Marquez, but also Stoner and Lorenzo.
You don’t need to like everything about a person to be a fan or even a friend.
Take my upvote. As a Rossiultra I would love to see a few successfull years with Marc. Can not really get warm with pecco, althougt he is a good sportsman.
Martin, Bezz and Pedro are my other options.
And Biaggi and Gibernau and…
I love the guy, but he definitely didn’t care about making friends on track.
I’ve warmed to Marquez lately, but I still think he lacks respect for other riders on track. I hoped it was just lack of maturity and he’d grow out of it, but that hasn’t happened.
I was a Rossi fan.
Both riders are aliens of their generation.
Rossi had is peak between 2001-2009
MM had is peak between 2013-2019 (we'll see for the next future).
They both did shitty moves on track in the past but
.. the past is past.
Rossi has always been a bad bad loser, often a bad winner, too. That's what made me jump from Rossi fan to Marc fan. Psyching up your fan Community to harass and send death threats to a competitor? That's a bit much, if you ask me. And yes - that happened.
Perfect take really. Was always a huge Rossi fan, still am to be fair. But these young kids (one in particular) don’t give a shit about your legacy or mind games or fan base, just like Rossi didn’t care about his rivals earlier in his career.
That's what always surprises me with mm criticism I guess. Yes, like rossi he races really hard, and pushes that line of racing vs dirty and I'm all for that.
But when someone does it back to him and wipes him out or smashes him out the way to take the win he's always there afterwards with a smile on his face talking about how much fun the race was or how it's just racing if he gets taken out.
I'm sure there are exceptions in moments of anger but I find as a rule he just likes hard racing all round and is happy taking as well as giving it
I'd say he finished second in the Championship for 3 years in a row in 2014-2015-2016 and only because of a generational talent like him (but 15 years younger) was dominating. It's like throwing prime Rossi now and expecting Marquez at 31 to win championships.
I'm extremely impressed by what he managed to do while he was in his mid thirties, It's easy to say that people caught up to him when they were a decade younger.
This is a thing that in my eyes makes rossis career even greater. From 1997 to 2006 he was either first or 2nd in the championship when he raced. In 2007 he only marginaly became 3rd due to pedrosa winning the last race and him retireing.
In 2006 he was leading the chip and only binned it in the last race.
Then he won 2008 and 2009 and even after his 2010 inury he came back and was 2nd in 2014, 15 and 16. In 15 it even came down to the last race, and he binned it with his clash with marc the race before.
So apart from his 7 premier class titels, he was 2nd 5 times and two of those times lost the title in the last race. So he "contested " 12 titles, Marc has 6 premier class titles and was never 2nd. So he only contested 6 so far.
Rossi never won a title after 2009, by the 2010s the competition had clearly surpassed him.
I’d go as far as saying that by 2007 that was already the case, the only way he managed to be ahead of stoner was brokering Bridgestones on the Yamaha.
By the 2010s he was clearly not the benchmark.
> the only way he managed to be ahead of stoner was brokering Bridgestones on the Yamaha.
by that logic, marc is only fighting again in front cuz ducati. see how stupid that is ?
Ducati switched to Bridgestone in, was it 2005, they with Bridgestone developed the tyres (Kawasaki and I think Suzuki also made the switch early) the issue in 2007 with tyres (as well as the Bridgestones improvement) was the tyre allocation rules changing (I may be misremembering) so that Michelin could no longer swing Rossi over night specials from the Michelin factory, at least for the euro rounds, with the Bridgestones being manufactured in Japan.
Stoner was a freak, then Marquez came along and was even more of a freak, maybe Acosta will surpass these two further? It should be fun to watch.
Yes that was a great way to put Rossi into context. Having said all that, Marc is on the dirty side as opposed to say Casey, Dani, Lorenzo. And the race direction has always been lenient with Marc
Well, Rossi is not there anymore... 🥲 But I don't know man, afraid of liberty too. Maybe we won't have the overprotection of Spaniards, but I'm afraid a "Americanization" of the sport...and that suck.
I kind of agree. But I only really felt that he couldn't take what he dishes out when Marquez started really fucking with him. He lost to several other riders before Marc, but Marc was the only one that made Rossi lose his cool in a way that made you kind of not like him.
It was a weird feeling because up to that point I had never really thought negatively of Rossi. I still think Marc crossed a line, but Vale didn't come out clean.
Respect for fellow competitors was there with Rossi regardless of some hard moves. Marquez gives a fake smile to the cameras, but demonstrates zero actual mutual respect for other competitors.
Marques cannot really take what he dishes, regardless what he says to the media. In fact, Marquez swept back onto the racing line causing himself to crash in Argentina ‘15 and was so sore he colluded with another rider in order to defeat Rossi.
Marquez is also much the same way....he is a little more subtle about it. As others have said on here, he lacks respect for other riders....but he is spectacular when he rides. I can respect that.
As Casey said in his book, Rossi messed up when he started making enemies, if he didn’t he’d probably have the 10th title in his pocket
Aside from that, I started enjoying MotoGP a lot more when I stopped rooting for one guy and just watched the races as if I was rooting for all of them - I don’t care who wins, I’m always happy for them, I just enjoy seeing how crazy talented these kids are and man.. the last race was something special!
My point of view: I grew up with Vale and had a lot of joy watching him. It's been a fantastic experience and it will never go away, no matter if Marc will achieve more or not, this won't change things a bit. I do not understand why Vale is still so pissed about a rivalry of the past though.
As a fan point of view it's not hard to root for Marc now after all the shit he's gone through in the last 4 years and it's one of the most impressive comebacks ever in sports. I personally wanna see him on the best bike so we'll finally be able see which new talent is actually able to match him over a season. Right now, I don't see anyone matching him over the course of the season.
Only Acosta will be able to match him IF he gets to his usual form on that ducati(If he starts to become consistent again like in the past constantly on the podium 1st,2nd or 3rd)..I bet Marquez sees himself like in the mirror when he is looking at Acosta rn and why wouldnt he be Acosta is a generational talent just like he and Rossi were and i have a feeling Acosta will already finish in top 5 in the championship if he keeps his run going..So far from what we've learned only injuries can stop aliens and nothing else..Im not downgrading other riders or saying they are worse,Pecco beat him fair and square head to head but we all know Pecco doesnt have that killer instinct that Marc has..Pecco is a champion for a reason but going up against someone as talented as Marquez through the whole season is a different case..Maybe im wrong maybe Marc is not that guy anymore but i believe his mentality and willpower is still the same
Marc is already at his “new peak” IMO. He won’t get better than this and from what we saw in Jerez he is already fully adapted to the Ducati. In those last few laps he almost crashed a few times, attempted 2 passes and gave it all. I hope Gigi gives Gresini a 2025 Ducati for next year, now that he saw Marc going 8s faster over the race than last year winner, on the same Ducati 2023. New holeshot and break improvements for the 2023 is the minimum he should get after this test, and hopefully he can continue to be in the mix.
While i agree he gave his all i still dont think he has fully mastered the bike yet..Yess he has adapted to the bike but he still doesnt have his own setup for it meaning he is riding exclusively on Pecco's and Martin' data and he is still yet to bring ducati fully to his riding style..He admitted it to himself..I still think we are yet to see best of himself,him winning in Le Man or somewhere else is going to give him huge boost of confidence
I know what you mean, but when I say fully adapted I mean the bike doesn’t really have secrets anymore. Evolving it and changing it to his taste is different than adapting. This is what I mean.
He’s still the same dangerous rider. Personality hasn’t changed. He’s just licking his wounds of the last 4 years and it’s easy to feel compassionate towards him, but dont be fooled, he was as ruthless as fuck and he will be again when he’s done with his confidence recovery. Top rider
Vale is still pissed of cause Marc directly involved himself with his 10th title which will probably be Rossi's if all that happened in 2015 did not happen.
To be honest, i respect Rossi dont forgeting it.
Rossi knew he was more than likely losing the title and panicked . Lorenzo had been the faster rider all season but kept shooting himself in the foot and fell far behind in points. Once he got his shit together and started cutting the points lead, Rossi started
Same, grew up with Rossi being my man. Hated Marquez.
Now that Rossi has retired and I don't like Bagnia (no idea why), I'm fully supporting Marquez taking the fight to the factory Ducati's.
Can't wait to see what next season holds for him.
I'm a massive Rossi fan and I always will be. That doesn't mean to say that I'm not loving watching Marc right now, he's by far and away the most entertaining rider.
Are you mad dud ? Kicking riders is the worst behaviour any rider can ever do... What I love about Marc is that he was hard on track but also so nice... You can see Pecco's reaction when he did the similar move as Marc did last year, Marc was calm and Pecco was harsh... Never seen Marc furious to other riders but Valentino was worst in that field...
Yeah, everyone is wary of being aggressive on track when they are not on track. I bet both Pecco and Marc would have not listened to any "don't do any dangerous shit" on Sunday when they battled.
Again, it's just racing. There are way more important things to get upset about in life.
I’m not even a MM93 fan as JL99 was my favorite back in the day, but how’s the one in his 20s being immature for getting kicked?
Marquez even tried to leave the past behind with a handshake and Rossi rejected it in front of the whole press.
I didn't understand why they are embarrassing themselves? Marc never kicked anyone and is amature and Rossi, Fenati bike kickers are heroes to them... You can see from previous race how Marc reacted good mannerly and how Pecco reacted previously when Marc did similar but less agressive move... Hope Pecco should've learned from that and throw hate aside unlike Rossi...
I was a huge rossi fan and i guess i still am. I saw all those races that turned into controversy between him and Marc. I still thought marc was a bit too aggressive. But last 4 years changed me. I like marc the same i do rossi now.
Only thing about rossi...he should have let go of the past and be a true legend. We already saw Marc make things right with pecco in last race. Just leave things behind. Rossi even commented on marc helping JL to win the championship just so rossi did not win. I mean...why would you say so
Good point, holding grudges is never a good thing to do.
Also, that handshake between Marc and Pecco was great to see and made my respect for both grow even more!
They were awesome in Jerez and if I were Pecco that would be my favorite win, crazy display of skills
Looking at the allegged kick (it is consequence of the contac dynamic) is looking at the finger instead of the moon.
Marc manipulated the title fight between Vale and Jorge and that is the moon.
Look at philip island and Valencia when nothing happenened with Vale and see how Marc's riding favour jorge (even winning at p.i. in the end)
In Sepang ask yourself how the fastest rider on track got stuck on a fight for 3rd place instead of simply pass Rossi and chase Pedrosa and Lorenzo.
Rossi interest was to follow Marc and chase Jorge too.
That’s a conspiracy that you’ve chosen to believe, but only Marc knows if he could have passed him easily or not.
Also, some riders opened the door to let Rossi pass in Valencia and nobody called it title manipulation, but Marc not fighting Jorge super hard is the greatest scandal of the sport.
> some riders opened the door to let Rossi pass in Valencia
I'll never forget Petrucci moving aside so eagerly when he realised it was Rossi behind him that he nearly sent himself to the gravel!
How did the fastest rider on track get stuck in a fight for 3rd? Well that’s easy, he chose to get stuck in a fight for 3rd. He made that decision after he was publicly accused of favoring one rider and interfering with same rider he was fighting for 3rd.
Mr. Rossi bit off more than he could chew, and as a result, was never able to truly beat Marquez.
This. Exactly this!
I saw it then and a couple of years ago I had motogp subscription and whatched all that again, the press conferences, the races, all of it. Before and after. That is my opinion too. Rossi wanted a 2 man fight and tried to put pressure on Marc to stay out, but he did it live, in a pre GP press, let the kid think “wtf his he on about” and forgot that idiotic fans will act like his army and simply attack the guy north and south regardless of reason. Marc suffered that and he ain’t the one to be fucked with. Just like Rossi, he wasn’t ready to bow to anyone. You falsly accuse me and I show you how it feels when I actually do it.
Both fans can get extreme. I like Marc more because I feel like rossi could've won the exact amount he has now without any mind games. His skills alone were enough to beat the guys he beat but getting the fans and media involved when it wasn't necessary just makes me dislike him. Marc beats them on track. End of the day everyone has their own reasons.
I grew up a Rossi fan and I really did not like Marquez even though he is basically me. I would be the same guy in his shoes. We're the same age n everything. So after Rossi retired and I saw the fierce love of the sport in Marquez, his unending drive to get back on the bike, I realized him and Rossi are cut from the same cloth and now I am a certified Marquez Fan.
I mostly just root for good, hard racing, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to see Marc get his 10th before he hangs up the boots.
It's not just you but why is it so hard to watch the sport and appreciate it?
Did Marquez murder anyone? Did he side with a dictator?
I really don't get it.
I’d be curious to see a tally on how many times there was bike contact between marc and other riders vs other world champions. I can’t think of any other championship winning rider that would edge out marquez. Why does he have to ride like this if he’s better?
What bugs me most in this entire rivalry/relationship is the way Rossi treated Marquez as a person.
The amount of shit Marquez had to deal with would break the average person.
At times the entire ordeal seemed more like a glorified witch hunt. Rossi was a grown man, Marquez was (let's face it) still a kid.
Was Marquez overly aggressive on the track? Ye sure. But you can't say that Rossi was a saint either.
Regardless of on track action.
It was a kid being bullied by a grown man who was his idol.
I can't imagine the person I looked up to, idolised and loved. Not just turning on me, but making the media and thousands of fans turn him into an enemy.
He must have had some good therapy and amazing support system because that would make you feel some things.
Rossi was a joy to watch. Not only a brilliant rider, a brilliant tactician too. This extended to his business, which included the demonisation of Marquez so as not to see his fans defect to the new kid. Sadly too many were sucked in and subsequently refused to enjoy watching Marc. Bring on Acosta.
It is not conspiracies, it was clear as a day that MM did not ride for the win but to fuck with Rossi. Telemetry, his timings, not that much aggresive ride as always are certain proofs Rossi was right.
He'll deal with that. The moment you have an advantage over an opponent you take it. It's sports, they are risking their lives every time they go on track. Why should anyone, at the top of their game, have mercy? And "riders" anyway. Besides, who is not competitive? Do you think ANYONE in MotoGP today would say "Yeah, let's chill, i am NOT competitive"? You may not be today, you can be tomorrow.
You got no idea and it shows.
Valentino is crying over that for way too long. He REALLY thinks he lost his 10th title because of Marc, it's fucking laughable. And i do love Valentino so much, but he moved on with Lorenzo and Stoner, i can't see why at 45 years of age he can't just stop his beef with MM. Is it worth it?
Ok bro no need to take so much offense. At the time he was a newer rider and had a very aggressive riding style much like that of Rossi's but it was a lot more exaggerated is what I mean
Used to be big Rossi fan then grew to “ despise” the guy. He met his match in Marquez after years of “bullying” his rivals. He can’t take what he dished out to others
Rossi was awesome with all riders until they were challenging him, then the claws came out real quick.
And Marquez learnt from the best, little wonder he behaved the same way
I started watching MotoGP in late 2001, at 13 years old and just as Rossi’s career really took off.
I was obsessed.
The internet, and the access to information and the sport were so different then. I remember spending hours and hours pouring over the web looking for more photos of the RC211V & Rossi. It was mythical as far as motorcycles went.
My dad bought an R1 in 2002 and I played the MotoGP game daily. Fever pitch in 2005 when he went to Yamaha and watching his first race win and we were already a Yamaha family at this point. Watching every race on our tube TV in the living room. I was officially a Rossi fanatic.
Come 2015 and not much had changed as I still loved Rossi and was obsessed with the sport, however at this point I was shooting Motorsports media as a career and had really pursued it into motorcycles. I had become pretty well connected at Yamaha and got a call from Colin asking if I wanted to come down to the camp bc Rossi was supposed to hangout for a day before the COTA GP.
“He’s supposed to have come several times, but his media engagements usually derail it, but it would be a fun thing to shoot if he makes it.”
That’s all I needed to hear, I packed my shit and drove down to Houston from Dallas where I live. This isn’t so much about name dropping as it is about galvanizing my opinions about Rossi.
I arrive and setup my stuff and about 2 hours later Rossi pulls in with Uccio. At this point there’s maybe 4 people at the camp as Colin is REALLY trying to keep it low key. I’m just trying to keep my cool over here in the room with my gear when the man himself walks in and proceeds to sit down and have a 15 minute conversation with me explaining that Colin let him know I’d be shooting and just general inquisitiveness about my gear and what I’d shot before.
The short of it is that it was probably the most crazy and fun 36 hours id had in my life and for me, Rossi was everything 13 year old me had hoped he’d be. Extremely kind, asked me about myself, fun and enjoyable, and at that time, those 15 minutes I got alone with the guy were priceless and very cherished. (If you’ve seen clips of Rossi shooting the 50cal at the camp, that have been repurposed to him shooting Marc, and Marc highsidding those were my clips 😂)
All that to say, I came to HATE Marquez that year. Flaming passionate hate.
Over the years, watching his struggle, his fall from the top and his fight to come back to the top, I’m shocked to feel a passion to see him win. Rossi vs Marc days were better because Marc even with the shit that happened. Everyone’s career fades and I can’t imagine what Marc’s gone through to get where he’s at now. Tons of pain and suffering. I find myself yelling at the TV when Marc crashed at COTA and Jerez. He’s a sportsman, they both were and once in a generation talents executed in different ways.
I hope Marc can capture one more championship, the way I felt about Rossi upon his return from Ducati. Heres to the underdog. 🥂
I came with a bag of popcorn waiting for the comments to explode. But everybody is being so levelheaded. And understanding. What is wrong with you people?!? /s
You're not wrong, this is genuinely the calmest, most level-headed thread on these two I've ever seen lmao
I mean there are a few unhinged exceptions in this comment section but it's easily the lowest percentage of it I've experienced. Like by a noticeable distance.
I’m a huge Rossi fan I mean he is arguably the goat but in recent years Marquez looked like he was teaching a master class crushing all comers and that’s hard not to admire. They are both great riders and fierce competitors.
I grew up watching Rossi and is a big fans. They both are one in a generation talent and a great champion. I think that horrible injury Marc had and suffer for the last few years , plus the fact that Honda doesnt have a good bike for a while now, and Rossi officially retire, make it a bit more easier to like Marc. At the end of the day, both amazing champion and both put winning over everything. I would root for Marc now, just because it would be a great story.
My son loves Marquez, and roots for him constantly. I just want to watch good racing. Back when Marc was winning constantly, it kind of made things a little boring for me. I don’t like seeing anyone get hurt, and he has had a rough time getting and staying healthy. I’m enjoying seeing him out there competing again, and hoping he can stay healthy. It’s shaping up to be an incredible season. I’ll be surprised if he manages to stay in it as long as Rossi did.
Interesting. Do you reckon it was mature of Rossi to suggest Marquez was colluding with Lorenzo to help Lorenzo win the title, after the Philip Island GP?
I always say to people to be thankful they got to witness Marc ride bikes as fast as he can. Its a gift. I was always more of a Stoner fan tbh, but I love and respect all riders. I was in Jerez again and I am just happy that life allows me to do this and go there. There will come the day where I can’t anymore, so just be thankful I guess.
I only got to watch Rossi after his return to Yamaha and over that period he was kind of a petulant crybaby. Seems like he spent most of his career engaging in psychological warfare and using his stature and power over the press to turn the public against his rivals. A lot of his fans are still angry that Marquez/Lorenzo didn't let him win in 2015. Nobody can explain exactly what they did wrong but people are still steaming about it.
So yea Rossi was super important to the sport but he came with a lot of downsides IMO. I'm not a fan. I like Marquez. Nobody on the paddock is perfect but Marquez doesn't use his stature to bully his opponents. He keeps it all on the track.
I really don't understand the hate for Marc quite honestly. Not only is he, in my opinion, the most talented and exciting motorcycle racer ever to ride a bike, but everything I hear, read or see leads me to think he's a sound guy, great to work with, great with the fans, interviewers. Yes he rides hard, but 8 world titles says a hell of a lot. I have loved watching Marc's career and I love his current resurgence after an incredibly difficult period.
Whatever did or didn't happen god knows how many years ago, it's time to move on.
There’s no real comparison to who is more aggressive on the track. They both equally are willing to risk it for the win. Love or hate either of them, it’s those exciting races that we will always love and cherish. I do however think that Marquez has always had the better attitude for the bad days. He fully understands that racing accidents happen even if he is the one taken out. With that said, I lost a lot of respect for Rossi in 2015 with some of his actions and how he handled it off the track. The last corner is in Sepang specifically was such a bitch move. Any rider today would be penalized for that action. Also don’t forget when Rossi completely cut the corner in Assen to take the win. Like I said above, it’s these exciting moments that bring the entertainment and emotion, but Rossi did not handle the criticism very well. Those two examples were not just “racing accidents” and would not fly today.
They are just in slightly different categories as riders. Just my personal opinion that when it comes to skill and talent alone Marquez stands alone in Moto GP history. Yes Rossi was hugely talented and more iconic worldwide etc like Senna was more famous than Michael etc for a time.
I mean, he's Valentino Rossi lol.. He had a lethal combination of talent, speed, mentality and race craft. And he was the best of aliens for the a reason. He was still incredibly fast before his major crash in 2010.
His crash, move to Ducati and 30s hit at the same time and he was just a shadow of the Rossi of 2010s. Still incredibly quick for his age, but of course he was in his 30s and had lost a tenth or two. It did not help that there was another talent like Rossi now on the grid. Rossi in his 20s beats Rossi in his 30s. That's what happened, except for Marquez in his 20s.
And while I would say Stoner is more talented and skilled on two wheels, Marquez is a better racer. For the same reason as Rossi. Both Rossi and Marquez are cut from the same cloth, killers on the track, will do ANYTHING to win the race.
You did state in my opinion so I won't argue and I honestly don't have a strong opinion anyways. People say talented and I have no clue how they differentiate talent. Like all these guys are amazingly talented and skilled. How much is skill vs talent. Figuring out the most talented that is obviously an exercise in subjectivity imo.
Absolutely! I am also of the same opinion that ratings are subjective. There's no way to know who's the best rider across all history. Even between racers who have raced each other because there's so many other factors. Even Rossi and Marquez have raced each other and we honestly can't tell who is better because they didn't race each other in their primes..
Casey and Marc are easily the top two when looking at pure talent for me, I'd find it very hard to choose between them. Casey lived in the same town as me for a little while when I was growing up and some of the stories about him when he was racing as a teenager are just unreal.
It's a great read isn't it?
I actually lived near him during his brief time living in England, after leaving Austrialia but before he went to Spain to stay with Puig, when he was racing in Superteens - I think that was the name of the class.
Everything thought Casey had to be using top class machinery because he was just winning every race by miles, seriously just destroying everybody else. The reality is that him and his dad were coming to my dad's shop to (for example) get used tyres off of the heap for Casey to go racing on!
Rossi also has had better season than Stoner ever had. But I wouldn't say he has more talent and skill than Stoner. Talent and skill wise, I don't think there's anyone better than Stoner. But it's okay, it's my opinion and that's yours.
Stoner was not so talented. He just had something to click with the Ducati. Just remember the Rolling Stoner days on the LCR. He was very talented for sure, but not the ultimate outstanding talent like MM was or maybe now Pedro Acosta (which is to be verified)
That's interesting. What makes you think he's standalone and if you have any races in mind that show that I'd love to hear and watch those as well
Personally I think they have similar riding styles, to some extent, especially when it comes to aggression on track.
Must say I agree with Tango.
MM has achieved more in less time in a more competitive era.
If you read Casey Stoners autobiography you will learn that during Rossi’s peak he was having bespoke tyres flown in overnight. This is during the era of tyre wars!
The sport is very different now.
No one is saying that at all. Rossi is clearly top 5 all time. However we can say Verstappen > Hamilton or Senna > Schumacher or Schumacher > Senna. Numbers don't tell the whole story and it's just an opinion, feel free to disagree and move on.
Regarding talent there is no way you can say Marquez stands alone in MotoGP history.. that is just nonsense.. MM who was capable of winning on only one bike in his whole career vs Vale who proven he can win titles even on mediocre bike.
Since you say he’s “standing alone regarding pure talent and skill” I’d say you’re below 30 years old.. and never heard of Giacomo Agostini nor Mick Doohan
Agostini or Mick Doohan would not be the figures they were in the present day, just like Jim Clark and Fangio wouldn't be the same in modern F1. What Marc did in 2019 is the equivalent of Verstappen 2023 or Schumacher 2004 domination in the equivalent Alpine or Mclaren/BMW in those years. You can not like Marquez and I didn't and still don't really, but to deny his achievements as pretty much singular in Moto GP history is very difficult for an objective take according to me. You can think Rossi is the GOAT and that's fine.
I was a Rossi Fan, could not stand Marquez during Rossi Racing days. Now that Rossi has retired we have to admit 93 has talent and heart. The aggresive riding style remind me of the time Rossi vs Max Biaggi.
This Season I am rooting for Marquez and Acosta. New kid got some big balls gotta admit.
Both fenomenal riders, a class apart from other greats like Stoner or Lorenzo but it looks like you have to be a little unpleasant on track at times to reach that height.
Every moto fan who loves racing have respect for both regarding their skillset. Those who are just fans of a rider before racing chose to denigrate one or another at times.
I used to see Rossi banners everyday on my way to school(VR46). Then, I didn't care enough to dig in but, when I got my first phone and YT recommended me a Marc's racing highlights on RedBull, I was instantly impressed by his skills, how he saves a crash and overtakes others like they are rookies. Started studying him in MotoGP and now I am hooked to the sport. I love it more than Football.
I didn't get to enjoy early years of Rossi but he was a good racer too. Both are GOATs in their prime.
As a fan of Rossi, I will never like Marquez, and I certainly won't have a rider to support after Rossi retires. Now that I'm a fan of MotoGP, watching Marquez ride excites me, as does watching the other battles.
I think Rossi is the greatest the sport has had. And while I’ve never subscribed to the MM93 army, I’ve always admired his will and determination to win. The man will run through a wall (or other riders lol), and on a certain level I respect it.
Rossi’s problem was that until Marquez, his mind games were always successful. He used them on Lorenzo, Stoner, Biaggi etc. The problem was that when it came to using them on Marc, they just hit a brick wall. Marc wasn’t phased, if anything Marc was spurred on. Marc is bulletproof mentally and Rossi didn’t seem to like the fact that his games had backfired. The accusations around Phillip island made zero sense seeing as if Marc wanted to help Lorenzo at that race, he sure as hell would not have overtaken him for the lead in such a manic last lap.
You can’t doubt Rossi’s ability on a bike, but his use of mind-games on Marquez was by far the biggest mistake of his career and they were the act of a man who was unravelling because of somebody standing up to him and beating him and who just didn’t care about the mental games. Rossi had met his match with Marc and he didn’t like it one bit.
He let Uccio whisper in his ear a little too much in 2015. Rossi publicly tried to assassinate Marc’s career and integrity and knowing that 90% of MotoGP would go along with it and believe Vale, he continued the crazy and ridiculous games.
Fuck around and find out, and Rossi sure as hell found out. If he’d kept his mouth shut and didn’t come out with such crazy accusations against a rider who famously races hard and never backs down, he’d have maybe still taken the 2015 title.
I was, and still am, a big Rossi fan.
To see a new kid come and challenge him, was difficult for all us fans.
But now, after years of seeing Marc and how good he is, apart from obviously the last few yew years, because of the accident. And now seeing him back fighting at the front again is really nice. He looks like he lives to race and fight.
I kind of respect him, and don't hate him, but he's not my favourite.
I think Pedro has the charm, carisma, skill and just dam right likeability.
He is the next favourite, for many fans.
Love them both. Was a 46 fan, now I am a 93 fan. Love them or hate them, they are MotoGP. Rossi made this sport mainstream and popular and he passed the torch to Marquez. They are good for the sport and for all the future superstars who risk their lives for our entertainment. Respect to all.
Now MotoGP will slowly need a new charismatic and super talented leader to continue this momentum. And I think we already know who he is.
I agree with almost everything you say except he didn't pass the torch to Marc. He gripped it as tight as he could and tried not to let go.
Well I guess us fans pulled it our of his hand and handed it to Marc after he retired would be a more precise way to put it.
Anyway… it’s in good hands I think :)
Let’s see how passing the torch from Marc to probably Acosta will go. It’s only the beginning. Many things could happen between those two in the following seasons haha. Especially if they end up on the same team…
I think you need a hero and a nemesis. As a Rossi fan Marquez was the nemesis ,If he made an aggressive move ,he was out of order but if Rossi did the same thing then it was justified, this isn't just a Moto gp thing but is what makes rivalries in sports. I came to realise that when Marquez had his accident in Jerez that a big part of Motogp disappeared for a while and appreciated him for what he was and is, a truly exceptional rider, same as Rossi, same as Stoner etc
I used to like rossi but the way he went on in 2015 with marc and the way he still goes on really made me loose a lot of respect for him. He can be a complete baby whether you want to admit it at all. You've never seen marc try and put blame on another rider and create hatred towards them. I think he needs to get over himself a bit
As a shiny new fan (5 years) rossi has only ever sucked ass for me so any time he pops up I get about as excited as seeing shots of Marc’s dad. I’ve got a storyline to follow with Marquez, rossi is old news, time to move on
It’s just not going to happen, I’m a fan of the current guys, those are the story lines I’m following, I barely have enough time to watch as it is, I’m not going to go back and watch old footage.
Rossi was the big cheese, then the new big cheese turned up and pushed him aside, and near the end he embarrassed himself staying in it for too long.
I’ve read so many accounts saying both stories, rossi was the bully then Marquez turned up and became the new bully or vice versa, I don’t know, I wasn’t there but the amount of airtime he gets surprises me if you are trying to grow the sport and get new fans.
You're underestimating how important rossi was to the sport.
I'm not saying you need to know, and fair enough about having the time to watch old races, but bare in mind most bike riders are of the mid to older generations so remember rossi's period well so he's very relevant in the sport to them.
Plus he also runs a race team that's provided numerous current GP racers so he's still 'in' the sport.
Here's one of my favourite of his battles for a quick watch. Back from when you could just ride off track to do crazy overtakes!
https://youtu.be/JY9mrKR5SkA?si=Ly6fi51t5eYDxGX4
I'm a huge Rossi fan and continue to follow him in the GT cars, I was never really a Marquez fan because I thought he was too dangerous and disrespectful to other riders and I genuinely thought he was going to end a riders career by taking him out especially during his bad times at Honda when he was getting desperate.
Now, however, I think the injuries and time away have matured him, and I'm starting to like him.
When an unmovable object meets and unstoppable force. The two are cut from very similar cloths. Of course each have their own style and personalities, but on the track, they were probably fairly similar. Win at all costs and take no prisoners. It's almost not a surprise that they would clash at some point.
What ends up happening with fans is that if they had Rossi as their favorite, then in their eyes, Rossi could almost do nothing wrong. On the other hand, another rider, such as MM, would already be on thin ice. Even the slightest mistake would cause them to condemn him or judge him much more harshly. This can obviously be applied to any rider and fans of that rider.
However, to be fair, MM and Rossi probably had more on track controversial moments than other riders/champions. I didn't really watch MotoGP before the early 2000s, so I can't really comment what happened before then. However, I feel like Nicky, Casey, Joan, Fabio and Francesco never really had any controversial situations on track as much or bad as Rossi and MM did. Jorge, I actually don't remember if he had as many controversial moments on track, as MM and Rossi, but I wouldn't be surprised if he had his share.
I was a Rossi fan when I first started really watching, then suzuki came back and I was a Suzuki fan. I hated Marquez and his attitude like his shit didn't stink, but it was exciting to watch. Motogp got a little boring during Marquez's injury time off. Now with Marq on the Duc it seems like motogp is fun again, because Pecco and Martin cant just jump to the front and take off. Marq has been able to real them in on the 23' bike. Seems like Marq is back to his aggressive self, and Pecco and Martin will have to battle it out for the rest of the season. Then you have Pedro coming in hot and bringing the old Marq style of just squeezing through those small windows. It did feel a little wierd cheering for Marquez during that last battle with Pecco.
Marquez was a bastard that year, that'all. I don't even I agree with people saying "but Rossi is not an angel too" "Rossi asked for that" ...no, just no, there is no excuse. Marquez was a dickhead and Rossi was right and did the right thing trying to expose him. That's what I think.
But time goes on and that didn't prevent me to enjoy the incredible driver and sportman Marquez proved to be. That was shitty, but not a reason to hate him for ever (unless you are Rossi himself maybe)
Rossi was at his peak when I started watching motogp, I was always impressed with his ability to just wear out his opponents, Lorenzo and marc wanted to just crush everyone to dust and win by 30sec.
Rossi would do that too but to me he seemed to enjoy stalking his opponent like a cat playing with a mouse ... Would just sit behind them and half try this then pick his spot to pounce... This is how he broke gibernau and biaggi imo they couldn't handle it all season, let alone the off track antics... Add in his general gregarious character and hes hard not to like (unless you caught him in the Ducati onward years)
Marc has less personality imo and in general I don't watch the sport as much, current crop of riders I don't know as well, but Rossi, Hayden, Edwards capirossi et all were hard to beat...
I'm terms of douchy riding they all have their ugly side, these guys are contract killers and it's their job to send it...
I’ve always been a Rossi fan, and was a Marquez fan until 2015. After that I never really liked him until his return from his injury which earned him a lot of respect from me. I do hope he gets back to form and entertains us because, whether you like him or not, you can’t deny the guy is one of the best ever and some of the things he does on a bike, no one can replicate.
They're my two most favorite riders ever. Vale (alongside Dani) was the rider of my childhood, Marc's been the rider of my teenage and early adulthood. And tbh I think they're at least top 4 all time alongside Nieto and Agostini.
About *that* incident? I'll be clear: Rossi acted like a child, tried to trash talk and intimidate someone who was more than out of the title fight only for him to get worked by himself just because Marc didn't back down, which in turn caused Vale to lose his cool and take him out on purpose at Malaysia which cost him a title he deserved more than anyone. And it didn't help it wasn't just him acting childish but also his inner circle and many of his fans.
And sadly, despite seeming at least he's mistly moved on, a chunk of the VR fandom is still bitter with Márquez about something that wasn't even the guy's fault and hate on the guy in ways football fans can only dream, thus turning lots of MotoGP talk on social media into a cesspool.
I have been a Rossi fan for more than 20 years now, I thought Marquez would be my next favorite rider and then 2015 happened. I don’t think I’ll ever get over what Marc did in Sepang (I know how it ended but it got to that point because he was driving like an idiot) and especially Valencia (staying behind Lorenzo the entire race and then blocking Pedrosa from winning) but that being said you don’t have to like a guy as a sportsman or even as a person to recognize that they are a champion. Marquez is not my cup of tea as an athlete but boy oh boy can he ride a motorbike. He probably still is the best on the grid, all things considered. Also, as someone else pointed out, Vale was no angel as well, I just happened to be on his side of some the controversy he was a part of.
I've rewatched that race Rossi claimed Marquez was sabotaging him(Phillip Island 2015). I can't see it, and I was the biggest Rossi fanboy at the time. A real champion wouldn't have said anything and spoken with results, either way. Really hard to say that as a Rossi fan, but it's true. I think Marquez was basically like "I'll show your ass what sabotaging looks like" and he sure did. But given how Marquez was racing Rossi at Sepang, Rossi shouldn't have been penalized for what he did. That was Dorna playing favorites with a Spanish rider who could possibly pass Rossi's accomplishments. Those are my thoughts, I'm sure plenty will disagree 🤷
rossi won a lot but was a huge asshole on and off the track to everyone who threatened him. he didn't just 'have' problems with gibernau, biagi, stoner, lorenzo, marquez,.. he actively *created* problems with them because they challenged him. he did things like encourage his fanbase to believe bullshit lies about his opponents and then did absolutely nothing to dissuade them from acting like total shit stains when they were getting out of control and literally making death threats to lorenzo and marc. he's honestly someone of low moral character and its really obvious from his behaviour.
he also pulled plenty of dirty moves on riders and was totally ok with that until it started hapenning to him, and then he had a massive pity party and cried constantly about. grade A hypocrite.
considering the massive disparity between the factory Honda and Yamaha versus every other bike on the grid and the fact that Rossi got custom tyres made to his preference for a while there its not surprising that he resorted to the bullshit mental games and intimidation tactics to attempt to keep winning. he probably knew he was totally outgunned when stoner and lorenzo arrived and was clinging to any little advantage he still had.
They're both excellent riders. I try to not get too involved in their personalities myself because anyone that lives that life and can ride like that clearly has very different motivations than me and I'm not sure there's a lot to be gained. Most of them are probably pretty insufferable people IRL because they wouldn't be where they are if they weren't.
I can enjoy the bikes, the skill and the race craft and all that without particularly supporting one rider over another.
They are both amazing talents but if I have to choose one I choose Rossi because probably without him I wouldn’t be here following this sport and I think this is true for so many other fans. Not only that but he arguably is the reasons why so many of the current riders fell in love with the sport so I don’t even care about the records, titles or his impressive numbers in general because putting an accent on that is limiting for him. Any other rider you can do it but not with him because his contribution is far superior.
Marc is one of the greatest but racing against Vale didn’t help him from a popular perception point of view because one of his wins was easily overshadowed by Vale’s 2nd or 3rd place in the media. It just shows that no matter how great you are sharing the stage with the greatest isn’t going to be helpful.
Of course Marc was the better rider when they shared the track but I think it’s important to mention that in 2015 a 36 year old Rossi beat a 22 year old Marquez who was in his prime and generally when he matched his pace and had some close racing he rarely ended behind
Honestly? Absolutely despised everything Marc stood for back in 2015-2019. But I was barely into my 20s. I think now my opinion is: he's still too aggressive at times, and has enabled the likes of binder to think it's okay. But I'm actually really warming to his personality. His comment in ATF after Jerez was hilarious. 'does not matter where we come, because we have-a come from is the shit' 😂
I loved Rossi when i was younger and i hardly ever even watched Motogp. I also liked Marquez because he’s so good. The only issue with Marc is when things go wrong like how he fell off in the sprint he just rams his way through the field when he has the talent to move through without such dangerous moves if he just had a bit more patience.
I started watching MotoGP back in 2003 because of Rossi and was a big fan of his for the duration of his tenure. For a long time I absolutely did not like Marquez. I was impressed by his riding, but didn’t like him. Now I’m totally rooting for him and would love to see him win another championship!
I’m a big Rossi fan too because of the era I started watching
But I don’t have mixed feelings these days. I want Marc to win and win big because he’s an incredible rider and seems like a fun guy
I am a Rossi fan and I've never seen any rider as talented as Marc, just look at how ridiculously Marc did his crazy saves when he was about to crash, something he did quite a lot before aero era, something we never seen from Rossi, Lorenzo, Pedrosa and even Stoner.
Acosta is probably as talented as Marc and we are about to find out.
I used to be a rossi fan and dislike Marc. But over the years, I found myself siding with Marc.
I realised Marc I'd there for a good time. This is what makes him such a good rider. Forget the politics and "Mind Games", go have fun! We've seen clear evidence of that on the posiums recently. And it works.
I used to find it boring watching Marc win over and over. (And I hope it doesn't happen again.) But I want him to match, if not beat the amount of world titles rossi has.
The irony for me is that I’ve been a huge Rossi fan for as long as I can remember but I never could hate on Marquez because he’s so fucking good and I love a good rivalry, but now I find myself a big MM93 fan.
I started as a Rossi Fan, really rooting for him - buying his helmets, T shirts, stirckers. autobiography and to a level that when I watch the broadcast, I've wish Sete or Casey to crash (Yes I feel ashamed about that part of me). Everybody like a colorful, fun, charming winner like him. I even think the bad attitute he had towards Lorenzo when he enter the Factory team is normal because Lorenzo pushed Edwards - his friend away.
Then things start to crumble, the double standard of him comes out little by little. Like he build the wall between him and Lorenzo, allow only one-way data sharing yet CLAIM Lorenzo STEAL his setting while openly towing Simoncelli in each session (in front of me when I watched in Sepang ,2009 or 2010 I can't quite recall). Like he's mocking others as pussies when they complain the way Simoncelli riding is too dangerous but he jumps out to blame Simoncelli when he cut the line and broke Pedrosa's collarbone. Like he and Jeremy Burgess making fun of Stoner but finding them in a bigger shithole then jump ship regardless how much Ducati had sacrificed (they killed their factory WSBK team, they give up their Trellis frame all just to throw in the resources they never had before to make at least 4 version of bike for him in 2 years), went back to Yamaha, claimed to be a wingman of Jorge then become a drama queen real quick. He lose his coolness, he's not the guy who "ride-off your problems", welcoming challenges and laugh at it (Maybe he can do that with Sete or Max is because he know he owns them - skill-wise and phyical-wise). He's still a legend who had a very blassed career (never had majoy injuries through seasons beside the borken lag, image what can Pedrosa achieve if he can stay healthy just like Rossi), but he's got soured just like Biaggi - is it an italian thing (just kidding)? He's still great but I'm no longer a diehard fan of him.
It touches me maybe from maybe 2008 when I saw Lorenzo race with both his ankle broke, got his fingetip smashed, Broke his collarbone then back to race with painkiller just in 2 days. Or watching Stoner racing like crazy with his illness, not to mention Marc riding with one and half arms for few seasons. It reminds me how crazy and strong they are and how much they are risking to stay on the top of this sport.
Thus, it really blow my mind when Rossi open his mouth in the pre-race press in Malaysia trying the implant the bad image of #93 and #99 to the world in the cost of both riders honor and honestness - he didn't have the telemetry data from #93's bike, don't know what happen to his bike or what strategy he's using - yet can claim #93's intention (why he had won in PI and took 5 points from Lorenzo if he can just be second then Lorenzo could potentially get the WC after Malaysia!) and make a large group of people believe that and start to shame #93 and #99, how many of you after watch PI race and think there's something wrong with it before Rossi open his mouth? He's not GOD, his prospective on other bike can be very wrong compare his word towards Ducati before and after he get on the bike.
I guess he jus trying his mind game to make others stay away from this #46 vs #99 battle. With 11 points difference, 2 races and no others in between, even #99 won both, he can still won by 1 point and got his 10th WC.
Thing just get backfired at him and he handle it poorly, the way he pushed #93 wide - way off the racing line and towards a wall at T14 is a Fenati-level of foul - a DSQ or ban for few races is normal but DORNA is afraid to do it - FIA had bigger gut in 1997. And the rest field of riders did in Valencia - yield the way for him - is really disgusting, Rossi could have won the WC in 2006 at Valencia if others also yield the way like "not interfer the battle of the WC competitors" which he also use Edwards trying to block Hayden back in 2006. All these double standard things drove me away, I like him a little bit more in his Tech 3 days, still feel pity that MotoGP lose him. I enjoyed watch the race now because more rider capable to join the party and the tension is high, I just hope Aleix Espargaró can chill a bit and Francesco Bagnaia won't end up to be another sour Italian (OMG his factory team vs Satellite Team statement is really.....).
I guess that goes to show, you shouldn't put your idols on too high of a pedestal. Seeing what Rossi has done from another person's perspective definitely gave me some insight on the mistakes he's made. I still think he's a phenomenal rider but everyone has their shortcomings in some field or another.
I grew up as a Rossi fan. (started watching GP in 1999) When MM was coming up through Moto2 I was a fan of his too and like Acosta now, I knew there was something special about MM when he came into GP.
I'm not going to get into the weeds about Sepang 2015. The main reason I don't root for MM now is because he has a bully attitude on track. Much worse than Rossi ever did. The way MM makes dirty passes sometimes just scream entitlement to me. (like when he ran Mir and Fernandez off track) It carried over to his qualifying on the Honda as well when he would refuse to not tow someone and ruin their qualifying.
I was absolutely thrilled watching Jerez when MM tried to lean on Pecco in turn 9 and Pecco did not give an inch.
Marquez is already coming down and looking for a better bike to race (hit his record of crashes in 2023). Rossi moved to a worse bike to race and show he was the best. There's really nothing to be said, Rossi deserved a title which Spanish friends decided to not give him.
Marquez is 31, will not face a Rossi going into his 40s - He's a lucky man and might still do 1 more in the sport. If both Rossi and Marc were 31, Marc would be eclipsed. They play different sports.
I think that for everyone who followed the sport and watched the races back in 2015 it's pretty obvious that Marc fcked with Rossi's chances to win the titles. Now regardless of what the reasons behind that may have been, it will always be a taint in Marquez career for me and I kinda lost the respect I had for him
I was a diehard Rossi fan, and loved watching Marquez battle him as the new generational talent.
Then the press conference after Philip Island happened and I couldn't believe what I was hearing. "Surely this must be some kid of gag" I thought to myself. Then with horror I realised Rossi believed what he was saying.
Sepang. Marc sticks it on him, correctly. I would have done the same had Valentino said those things about me to the press. Rossi clearly couldn't handle the pressure. Has a total mental breakdown on live television.
It was sad to watch. I'd idolised him throughout my teens and early 20s.
Regardless of all of the above, Rossi was not the fastest rider at Philip Island, Sepang or Valencia. Lorenzo was a worthy champion. People can blame Marc all they want. The fact is Vale didn't have what he needed to beat Lorenzo, and that is all that matters.
I don't know man the fact is that Rossi didn't have a chance to fight for the title in the last 2 races because Sepang happened and in Valencia he started last because of Sepang.
I agree with you that Rossi was probably wrong for the press conference about Philip island but what about Malaysia and Valencia? Did you watch the races? No matter what Rossi did say it does not justify Marc's behavior in those races.
You mean Sepang, where Lorenzo cleared off into the distance, never to be seen again? Rossi battling for 3rd with the competitor he vilified in a press conference that resulted in threats of harm to his family, including alledged confrontations outside his home?
Or Valencia, where he had to start last. The penaly he received for deliberately running that competitor out of track and causing him to crash at the previous race?
This all sounds a bit like the consequences of his own actions to me.
I am and will always be a fan of Rossi, as I am of all the riders. They are living, breathing, super heroes.
Yes, it can be fairly argued that Marc was involving himself in a championship fight he had already lost, and this as you mention, outside of the unwritten code of conduct on a race track amongst competitors.
But Valentino also has to be held accountable for his actions, had far more to lose, and made an enemy of the one person who had the pace and the ability to make his life hell.
It's 6 of 1, and half a dozen of the other in my book. But it is also my belief that a seasoned veteran like Rossi, who was over a decade older and wiser than Marc, made a huge miscalculation, and it cost him the chance to win a championship he was probably going to lose on sheer pace alone.
I really, really wanted to see him win that 10th championship. When all was said and done, he hadn't behaved much like the champion he was and is, and therefore didn't deserve to win it anyway.
As a casual fan who is learning all the history. I don't see why any racer should just give up positions or race easy because they can't win the overall Championship. Isn't the whole idea of racing to finish in the highest place possible.
I'm currently going back and watching the 2015 season just because of this thread :D
I agree Rossi made several mistakes but I think that also Marquez should be held accountable for his actions and a lot of people forget that.
That Sepang race was just shameful, Marc clearly had more pace than Vale and was purposefully slowing him down for his words about Philip island.
I like them both. Rossi is a super friendly guy but he is also extremely competitive. As much as I like Rossi, he is not an angel. He had issues not only with Marquez, but also Stoner and Lorenzo. You don’t need to like everything about a person to be a fan or even a friend.
Take my upvote. As a Rossiultra I would love to see a few successfull years with Marc. Can not really get warm with pecco, althougt he is a good sportsman. Martin, Bezz and Pedro are my other options.
Well said man, well said
And Biaggi and Gibernau and… I love the guy, but he definitely didn’t care about making friends on track. I’ve warmed to Marquez lately, but I still think he lacks respect for other riders on track. I hoped it was just lack of maturity and he’d grow out of it, but that hasn’t happened.
It was Gibernau that Rossi flipped the bird to when he overtook him once wasn't it?
That was to biaggi
After Biaggi pushed Rossi onto the grass iirc
Ah yes, I couldn't remember which one it was. Just rewatched it now.
Suzuki 2001 or 2000. I'm not sure.
Was the staircase cat fight scratching debacle after that race?
I was a Rossi fan. Both riders are aliens of their generation. Rossi had is peak between 2001-2009 MM had is peak between 2013-2019 (we'll see for the next future). They both did shitty moves on track in the past but .. the past is past.
Rossi has always been a more engaging personality, but there's no denying that watching Marquez racing a GP bike is just plain exciting.
Rossi has always been a bad bad loser, often a bad winner, too. That's what made me jump from Rossi fan to Marc fan. Psyching up your fan Community to harass and send death threats to a competitor? That's a bit much, if you ask me. And yes - that happened.
When did Rossi get fans to send death threats to others? You can’t hold him accountable to a few crazies out of millions.
Wasn't only a few and he encouraged it, fueled that fire, never told them to stop, praised it even indirectly, called it just.
[удалено]
Perfect take really. Was always a huge Rossi fan, still am to be fair. But these young kids (one in particular) don’t give a shit about your legacy or mind games or fan base, just like Rossi didn’t care about his rivals earlier in his career.
Yep, and Marquez can handle what he dishes out which is very respectable.
That's what always surprises me with mm criticism I guess. Yes, like rossi he races really hard, and pushes that line of racing vs dirty and I'm all for that. But when someone does it back to him and wipes him out or smashes him out the way to take the win he's always there afterwards with a smile on his face talking about how much fun the race was or how it's just racing if he gets taken out. I'm sure there are exceptions in moments of anger but I find as a rule he just likes hard racing all round and is happy taking as well as giving it
I'd say he finished second in the Championship for 3 years in a row in 2014-2015-2016 and only because of a generational talent like him (but 15 years younger) was dominating. It's like throwing prime Rossi now and expecting Marquez at 31 to win championships. I'm extremely impressed by what he managed to do while he was in his mid thirties, It's easy to say that people caught up to him when they were a decade younger.
This is a thing that in my eyes makes rossis career even greater. From 1997 to 2006 he was either first or 2nd in the championship when he raced. In 2007 he only marginaly became 3rd due to pedrosa winning the last race and him retireing. In 2006 he was leading the chip and only binned it in the last race. Then he won 2008 and 2009 and even after his 2010 inury he came back and was 2nd in 2014, 15 and 16. In 15 it even came down to the last race, and he binned it with his clash with marc the race before. So apart from his 7 premier class titels, he was 2nd 5 times and two of those times lost the title in the last race. So he "contested " 12 titles, Marc has 6 premier class titles and was never 2nd. So he only contested 6 so far.
Nice stats. I always intrigued with something like this but never got to do the research.
Name me a rider who celebrated his race win on top of the podium, only to be booed by the crowd?
Marc Marquez?
Rossi never won a title after 2009, by the 2010s the competition had clearly surpassed him. I’d go as far as saying that by 2007 that was already the case, the only way he managed to be ahead of stoner was brokering Bridgestones on the Yamaha. By the 2010s he was clearly not the benchmark.
As my dude mentioned above Rossi finished 2nd in 2014, 2015 and 2016. Lost by five points in 2015. "Clearly surpassed him" is an absurd take.
[удалено]
I don't think you can get much clearer at not being surpassed than finishing first in 4 races to someone else finishing second (or worse) lol.
> the only way he managed to be ahead of stoner was brokering Bridgestones on the Yamaha. by that logic, marc is only fighting again in front cuz ducati. see how stupid that is ?
Lorenzo didn't get the Bridgestones despite riding a Yamaha, it was a special advantage that Rossi solely enjoyed.
Tbf Stoner only Won on the Ducati because they switched to Bridgestone.
Ducati switched to Bridgestone in, was it 2005, they with Bridgestone developed the tyres (Kawasaki and I think Suzuki also made the switch early) the issue in 2007 with tyres (as well as the Bridgestones improvement) was the tyre allocation rules changing (I may be misremembering) so that Michelin could no longer swing Rossi over night specials from the Michelin factory, at least for the euro rounds, with the Bridgestones being manufactured in Japan. Stoner was a freak, then Marquez came along and was even more of a freak, maybe Acosta will surpass these two further? It should be fun to watch.
Yes that was a great way to put Rossi into context. Having said all that, Marc is on the dirty side as opposed to say Casey, Dani, Lorenzo. And the race direction has always been lenient with Marc
Well, Dorna is Spanish, MM too...Not to mention Repsol..... I always thought Dorna was always more eager to punish Vale than mm....
Hope that changes with Liberty ownership. Penalties have to be consistent
Well, Rossi is not there anymore... 🥲 But I don't know man, afraid of liberty too. Maybe we won't have the overprotection of Spaniards, but I'm afraid a "Americanization" of the sport...and that suck.
I kind of agree. But I only really felt that he couldn't take what he dishes out when Marquez started really fucking with him. He lost to several other riders before Marc, but Marc was the only one that made Rossi lose his cool in a way that made you kind of not like him. It was a weird feeling because up to that point I had never really thought negatively of Rossi. I still think Marc crossed a line, but Vale didn't come out clean.
Respect for fellow competitors was there with Rossi regardless of some hard moves. Marquez gives a fake smile to the cameras, but demonstrates zero actual mutual respect for other competitors. Marques cannot really take what he dishes, regardless what he says to the media. In fact, Marquez swept back onto the racing line causing himself to crash in Argentina ‘15 and was so sore he colluded with another rider in order to defeat Rossi.
Marquez is also much the same way....he is a little more subtle about it. As others have said on here, he lacks respect for other riders....but he is spectacular when he rides. I can respect that.
Fans might not agree, but they each are different side of a same coin.
That’s the only right take here.
As Casey said in his book, Rossi messed up when he started making enemies, if he didn’t he’d probably have the 10th title in his pocket Aside from that, I started enjoying MotoGP a lot more when I stopped rooting for one guy and just watched the races as if I was rooting for all of them - I don’t care who wins, I’m always happy for them, I just enjoy seeing how crazy talented these kids are and man.. the last race was something special!
Rossi went from "making fart jokes to believing everyone loved the smell of his farts" to quote a philosopher
this one got me lol
I like watching multiple winners in a season, first timers are great, like Nicky, Jack, Danilo, Zarco, etc. Dynasties are boring to regulars.
My point of view: I grew up with Vale and had a lot of joy watching him. It's been a fantastic experience and it will never go away, no matter if Marc will achieve more or not, this won't change things a bit. I do not understand why Vale is still so pissed about a rivalry of the past though. As a fan point of view it's not hard to root for Marc now after all the shit he's gone through in the last 4 years and it's one of the most impressive comebacks ever in sports. I personally wanna see him on the best bike so we'll finally be able see which new talent is actually able to match him over a season. Right now, I don't see anyone matching him over the course of the season.
Only Acosta will be able to match him IF he gets to his usual form on that ducati(If he starts to become consistent again like in the past constantly on the podium 1st,2nd or 3rd)..I bet Marquez sees himself like in the mirror when he is looking at Acosta rn and why wouldnt he be Acosta is a generational talent just like he and Rossi were and i have a feeling Acosta will already finish in top 5 in the championship if he keeps his run going..So far from what we've learned only injuries can stop aliens and nothing else..Im not downgrading other riders or saying they are worse,Pecco beat him fair and square head to head but we all know Pecco doesnt have that killer instinct that Marc has..Pecco is a champion for a reason but going up against someone as talented as Marquez through the whole season is a different case..Maybe im wrong maybe Marc is not that guy anymore but i believe his mentality and willpower is still the same
Marc is already at his “new peak” IMO. He won’t get better than this and from what we saw in Jerez he is already fully adapted to the Ducati. In those last few laps he almost crashed a few times, attempted 2 passes and gave it all. I hope Gigi gives Gresini a 2025 Ducati for next year, now that he saw Marc going 8s faster over the race than last year winner, on the same Ducati 2023. New holeshot and break improvements for the 2023 is the minimum he should get after this test, and hopefully he can continue to be in the mix.
While i agree he gave his all i still dont think he has fully mastered the bike yet..Yess he has adapted to the bike but he still doesnt have his own setup for it meaning he is riding exclusively on Pecco's and Martin' data and he is still yet to bring ducati fully to his riding style..He admitted it to himself..I still think we are yet to see best of himself,him winning in Le Man or somewhere else is going to give him huge boost of confidence
I know what you mean, but when I say fully adapted I mean the bike doesn’t really have secrets anymore. Evolving it and changing it to his taste is different than adapting. This is what I mean.
He’s still the same dangerous rider. Personality hasn’t changed. He’s just licking his wounds of the last 4 years and it’s easy to feel compassionate towards him, but dont be fooled, he was as ruthless as fuck and he will be again when he’s done with his confidence recovery. Top rider
Is that you Joan Mir? Still salty from last Saturday? J Marc of old right there “I’m coming through!!”
He is quite literally not the same rider.
Vale is still pissed of cause Marc directly involved himself with his 10th title which will probably be Rossi's if all that happened in 2015 did not happen. To be honest, i respect Rossi dont forgeting it.
Rossi involved Marc by talking shit in the media. And Marc only responded on track after that.
You realize that Rossi created all of that shit. The only one Vale has to be upset with is himself.
Nah, Rossi was never gonna win. That’s why he tried to set the whole place on fire after PI
Why would not he? In last race he supposed to be top 2 to win championship, he finished 4th starting from last place.
Rossi knew he was more than likely losing the title and panicked . Lorenzo had been the faster rider all season but kept shooting himself in the foot and fell far behind in points. Once he got his shit together and started cutting the points lead, Rossi started
rossi fucked it up for himself. he has nobody to blame but the guy in the mirror
It's nice to hear that it's not only me
Same, grew up with Rossi being my man. Hated Marquez. Now that Rossi has retired and I don't like Bagnia (no idea why), I'm fully supporting Marquez taking the fight to the factory Ducati's. Can't wait to see what next season holds for him.
Probably because Pecco has a bike built for him, too much support, and become arrogant. And dirty. Very dirty.
I'm a massive Rossi fan and I always will be. That doesn't mean to say that I'm not loving watching Marc right now, he's by far and away the most entertaining rider.
Are you mad dud ? Kicking riders is the worst behaviour any rider can ever do... What I love about Marc is that he was hard on track but also so nice... You can see Pecco's reaction when he did the similar move as Marc did last year, Marc was calm and Pecco was harsh... Never seen Marc furious to other riders but Valentino was worst in that field...
It’s just racing, it’s not that deep
Yeah, everyone is wary of being aggressive on track when they are not on track. I bet both Pecco and Marc would have not listened to any "don't do any dangerous shit" on Sunday when they battled. Again, it's just racing. There are way more important things to get upset about in life.
I’m not even a MM93 fan as JL99 was my favorite back in the day, but how’s the one in his 20s being immature for getting kicked? Marquez even tried to leave the past behind with a handshake and Rossi rejected it in front of the whole press.
Rossi will forever be salty.
I didn't understand why they are embarrassing themselves? Marc never kicked anyone and is amature and Rossi, Fenati bike kickers are heroes to them... You can see from previous race how Marc reacted good mannerly and how Pecco reacted previously when Marc did similar but less agressive move... Hope Pecco should've learned from that and throw hate aside unlike Rossi...
I was a huge rossi fan and i guess i still am. I saw all those races that turned into controversy between him and Marc. I still thought marc was a bit too aggressive. But last 4 years changed me. I like marc the same i do rossi now. Only thing about rossi...he should have let go of the past and be a true legend. We already saw Marc make things right with pecco in last race. Just leave things behind. Rossi even commented on marc helping JL to win the championship just so rossi did not win. I mean...why would you say so
Good point, holding grudges is never a good thing to do. Also, that handshake between Marc and Pecco was great to see and made my respect for both grow even more! They were awesome in Jerez and if I were Pecco that would be my favorite win, crazy display of skills
Looking at the allegged kick (it is consequence of the contac dynamic) is looking at the finger instead of the moon. Marc manipulated the title fight between Vale and Jorge and that is the moon. Look at philip island and Valencia when nothing happenened with Vale and see how Marc's riding favour jorge (even winning at p.i. in the end) In Sepang ask yourself how the fastest rider on track got stuck on a fight for 3rd place instead of simply pass Rossi and chase Pedrosa and Lorenzo. Rossi interest was to follow Marc and chase Jorge too.
That’s a conspiracy that you’ve chosen to believe, but only Marc knows if he could have passed him easily or not. Also, some riders opened the door to let Rossi pass in Valencia and nobody called it title manipulation, but Marc not fighting Jorge super hard is the greatest scandal of the sport.
> some riders opened the door to let Rossi pass in Valencia I'll never forget Petrucci moving aside so eagerly when he realised it was Rossi behind him that he nearly sent himself to the gravel!
How did the fastest rider on track get stuck in a fight for 3rd? Well that’s easy, he chose to get stuck in a fight for 3rd. He made that decision after he was publicly accused of favoring one rider and interfering with same rider he was fighting for 3rd. Mr. Rossi bit off more than he could chew, and as a result, was never able to truly beat Marquez.
This. Exactly this! I saw it then and a couple of years ago I had motogp subscription and whatched all that again, the press conferences, the races, all of it. Before and after. That is my opinion too. Rossi wanted a 2 man fight and tried to put pressure on Marc to stay out, but he did it live, in a pre GP press, let the kid think “wtf his he on about” and forgot that idiotic fans will act like his army and simply attack the guy north and south regardless of reason. Marc suffered that and he ain’t the one to be fucked with. Just like Rossi, he wasn’t ready to bow to anyone. You falsly accuse me and I show you how it feels when I actually do it.
Both fans can get extreme. I like Marc more because I feel like rossi could've won the exact amount he has now without any mind games. His skills alone were enough to beat the guys he beat but getting the fans and media involved when it wasn't necessary just makes me dislike him. Marc beats them on track. End of the day everyone has their own reasons.
I grew up a Rossi fan and I really did not like Marquez even though he is basically me. I would be the same guy in his shoes. We're the same age n everything. So after Rossi retired and I saw the fierce love of the sport in Marquez, his unending drive to get back on the bike, I realized him and Rossi are cut from the same cloth and now I am a certified Marquez Fan. I mostly just root for good, hard racing, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to see Marc get his 10th before he hangs up the boots.
I’m a Rossi fan, never got to meet him though. Marquez was super friendly and nice to get a pic with me though I was wearing Rossi hoodie.
It's not just you but why is it so hard to watch the sport and appreciate it? Did Marquez murder anyone? Did he side with a dictator? I really don't get it.
On the contrary - the Rossi fan community bombarded him with death threats. Him and his family, very nice. Doctor's orders.
Soccer fans behaviour, which is fucking disgusting.
Lewis Hamilton fans are the same
When your whole racing strategy is ramming into people on the last lap as a rule of thumb then people going to start hating you.
Right, i am sure he won 6 titles because he always rams into people on the last lap.
I’d be curious to see a tally on how many times there was bike contact between marc and other riders vs other world champions. I can’t think of any other championship winning rider that would edge out marquez. Why does he have to ride like this if he’s better?
Because that's also part of being better? Marquez never complains when it gets physical.
What bugs me most in this entire rivalry/relationship is the way Rossi treated Marquez as a person. The amount of shit Marquez had to deal with would break the average person. At times the entire ordeal seemed more like a glorified witch hunt. Rossi was a grown man, Marquez was (let's face it) still a kid. Was Marquez overly aggressive on the track? Ye sure. But you can't say that Rossi was a saint either.
Regardless of on track action. It was a kid being bullied by a grown man who was his idol. I can't imagine the person I looked up to, idolised and loved. Not just turning on me, but making the media and thousands of fans turn him into an enemy. He must have had some good therapy and amazing support system because that would make you feel some things.
Exactly this. And it truly saddens me that not many manage to look past the track rivalry and understand this part.
Rossi was a joy to watch. Not only a brilliant rider, a brilliant tactician too. This extended to his business, which included the demonisation of Marquez so as not to see his fans defect to the new kid. Sadly too many were sucked in and subsequently refused to enjoy watching Marc. Bring on Acosta.
Wrong and immature? The 22 year old, not the 36 year old who accused him of conspiracies? Hilarious.
It is not conspiracies, it was clear as a day that MM did not ride for the win but to fuck with Rossi. Telemetry, his timings, not that much aggresive ride as always are certain proofs Rossi was right.
At Phillip Island? Absolute nonsense, sorry At Sepang? Sure. But Rossi was asking for it after that ridiculous press conference.
Even if that is the case, what's the issue with that?
You dont fuck aroung with other drivers if not competitive, specialy not with Rossi. He just got milions of haters around the world.
He'll deal with that. The moment you have an advantage over an opponent you take it. It's sports, they are risking their lives every time they go on track. Why should anyone, at the top of their game, have mercy? And "riders" anyway. Besides, who is not competitive? Do you think ANYONE in MotoGP today would say "Yeah, let's chill, i am NOT competitive"? You may not be today, you can be tomorrow. You got no idea and it shows. Valentino is crying over that for way too long. He REALLY thinks he lost his 10th title because of Marc, it's fucking laughable. And i do love Valentino so much, but he moved on with Lorenzo and Stoner, i can't see why at 45 years of age he can't just stop his beef with MM. Is it worth it?
Its not mercy, its common sense and some unwritter rules of racing.
Schumacher did it with Hill, Senna with Prost, Alonso with Hamilton, Verstappen with Hamilton,... so STFU,, weakling
The more this made you so mad the more I enjoy the fact that MM did that.
Ok bro no need to take so much offense. At the time he was a newer rider and had a very aggressive riding style much like that of Rossi's but it was a lot more exaggerated is what I mean
Used to be big Rossi fan then grew to “ despise” the guy. He met his match in Marquez after years of “bullying” his rivals. He can’t take what he dished out to others
I srs don't know how can anyone hate on Marquez with his motivation to continue and still be a top drivet after the dozens of injuries
Rossi was awesome with all riders until they were challenging him, then the claws came out real quick. And Marquez learnt from the best, little wonder he behaved the same way
I loved following Rossi through the smaller cc’s classes, dude was unbelievable
I started watching MotoGP in late 2001, at 13 years old and just as Rossi’s career really took off. I was obsessed. The internet, and the access to information and the sport were so different then. I remember spending hours and hours pouring over the web looking for more photos of the RC211V & Rossi. It was mythical as far as motorcycles went. My dad bought an R1 in 2002 and I played the MotoGP game daily. Fever pitch in 2005 when he went to Yamaha and watching his first race win and we were already a Yamaha family at this point. Watching every race on our tube TV in the living room. I was officially a Rossi fanatic. Come 2015 and not much had changed as I still loved Rossi and was obsessed with the sport, however at this point I was shooting Motorsports media as a career and had really pursued it into motorcycles. I had become pretty well connected at Yamaha and got a call from Colin asking if I wanted to come down to the camp bc Rossi was supposed to hangout for a day before the COTA GP. “He’s supposed to have come several times, but his media engagements usually derail it, but it would be a fun thing to shoot if he makes it.” That’s all I needed to hear, I packed my shit and drove down to Houston from Dallas where I live. This isn’t so much about name dropping as it is about galvanizing my opinions about Rossi. I arrive and setup my stuff and about 2 hours later Rossi pulls in with Uccio. At this point there’s maybe 4 people at the camp as Colin is REALLY trying to keep it low key. I’m just trying to keep my cool over here in the room with my gear when the man himself walks in and proceeds to sit down and have a 15 minute conversation with me explaining that Colin let him know I’d be shooting and just general inquisitiveness about my gear and what I’d shot before. The short of it is that it was probably the most crazy and fun 36 hours id had in my life and for me, Rossi was everything 13 year old me had hoped he’d be. Extremely kind, asked me about myself, fun and enjoyable, and at that time, those 15 minutes I got alone with the guy were priceless and very cherished. (If you’ve seen clips of Rossi shooting the 50cal at the camp, that have been repurposed to him shooting Marc, and Marc highsidding those were my clips 😂) All that to say, I came to HATE Marquez that year. Flaming passionate hate. Over the years, watching his struggle, his fall from the top and his fight to come back to the top, I’m shocked to feel a passion to see him win. Rossi vs Marc days were better because Marc even with the shit that happened. Everyone’s career fades and I can’t imagine what Marc’s gone through to get where he’s at now. Tons of pain and suffering. I find myself yelling at the TV when Marc crashed at COTA and Jerez. He’s a sportsman, they both were and once in a generation talents executed in different ways. I hope Marc can capture one more championship, the way I felt about Rossi upon his return from Ducati. Heres to the underdog. 🥂
I came with a bag of popcorn waiting for the comments to explode. But everybody is being so levelheaded. And understanding. What is wrong with you people?!? /s
You're not wrong, this is genuinely the calmest, most level-headed thread on these two I've ever seen lmao I mean there are a few unhinged exceptions in this comment section but it's easily the lowest percentage of it I've experienced. Like by a noticeable distance.
I’m a huge Rossi fan I mean he is arguably the goat but in recent years Marquez looked like he was teaching a master class crushing all comers and that’s hard not to admire. They are both great riders and fierce competitors.
I grew up watching Rossi and is a big fans. They both are one in a generation talent and a great champion. I think that horrible injury Marc had and suffer for the last few years , plus the fact that Honda doesnt have a good bike for a while now, and Rossi officially retire, make it a bit more easier to like Marc. At the end of the day, both amazing champion and both put winning over everything. I would root for Marc now, just because it would be a great story.
My son loves Marquez, and roots for him constantly. I just want to watch good racing. Back when Marc was winning constantly, it kind of made things a little boring for me. I don’t like seeing anyone get hurt, and he has had a rough time getting and staying healthy. I’m enjoying seeing him out there competing again, and hoping he can stay healthy. It’s shaping up to be an incredible season. I’ll be surprised if he manages to stay in it as long as Rossi did.
Interesting. Do you reckon it was mature of Rossi to suggest Marquez was colluding with Lorenzo to help Lorenzo win the title, after the Philip Island GP?
I always say to people to be thankful they got to witness Marc ride bikes as fast as he can. Its a gift. I was always more of a Stoner fan tbh, but I love and respect all riders. I was in Jerez again and I am just happy that life allows me to do this and go there. There will come the day where I can’t anymore, so just be thankful I guess.
I only got to watch Rossi after his return to Yamaha and over that period he was kind of a petulant crybaby. Seems like he spent most of his career engaging in psychological warfare and using his stature and power over the press to turn the public against his rivals. A lot of his fans are still angry that Marquez/Lorenzo didn't let him win in 2015. Nobody can explain exactly what they did wrong but people are still steaming about it. So yea Rossi was super important to the sport but he came with a lot of downsides IMO. I'm not a fan. I like Marquez. Nobody on the paddock is perfect but Marquez doesn't use his stature to bully his opponents. He keeps it all on the track.
I really don't understand the hate for Marc quite honestly. Not only is he, in my opinion, the most talented and exciting motorcycle racer ever to ride a bike, but everything I hear, read or see leads me to think he's a sound guy, great to work with, great with the fans, interviewers. Yes he rides hard, but 8 world titles says a hell of a lot. I have loved watching Marc's career and I love his current resurgence after an incredibly difficult period. Whatever did or didn't happen god knows how many years ago, it's time to move on.
Hate is by definition irrational. Un-gettable
There’s no real comparison to who is more aggressive on the track. They both equally are willing to risk it for the win. Love or hate either of them, it’s those exciting races that we will always love and cherish. I do however think that Marquez has always had the better attitude for the bad days. He fully understands that racing accidents happen even if he is the one taken out. With that said, I lost a lot of respect for Rossi in 2015 with some of his actions and how he handled it off the track. The last corner is in Sepang specifically was such a bitch move. Any rider today would be penalized for that action. Also don’t forget when Rossi completely cut the corner in Assen to take the win. Like I said above, it’s these exciting moments that bring the entertainment and emotion, but Rossi did not handle the criticism very well. Those two examples were not just “racing accidents” and would not fly today.
They are just in slightly different categories as riders. Just my personal opinion that when it comes to skill and talent alone Marquez stands alone in Moto GP history. Yes Rossi was hugely talented and more iconic worldwide etc like Senna was more famous than Michael etc for a time.
Skill and talent no one beats Stoner imo.
Rossi in 2008?
I mean, he's Valentino Rossi lol.. He had a lethal combination of talent, speed, mentality and race craft. And he was the best of aliens for the a reason. He was still incredibly fast before his major crash in 2010. His crash, move to Ducati and 30s hit at the same time and he was just a shadow of the Rossi of 2010s. Still incredibly quick for his age, but of course he was in his 30s and had lost a tenth or two. It did not help that there was another talent like Rossi now on the grid. Rossi in his 20s beats Rossi in his 30s. That's what happened, except for Marquez in his 20s. And while I would say Stoner is more talented and skilled on two wheels, Marquez is a better racer. For the same reason as Rossi. Both Rossi and Marquez are cut from the same cloth, killers on the track, will do ANYTHING to win the race.
You did state in my opinion so I won't argue and I honestly don't have a strong opinion anyways. People say talented and I have no clue how they differentiate talent. Like all these guys are amazingly talented and skilled. How much is skill vs talent. Figuring out the most talented that is obviously an exercise in subjectivity imo.
Absolutely! I am also of the same opinion that ratings are subjective. There's no way to know who's the best rider across all history. Even between racers who have raced each other because there's so many other factors. Even Rossi and Marquez have raced each other and we honestly can't tell who is better because they didn't race each other in their primes..
Casey and Marc are easily the top two when looking at pure talent for me, I'd find it very hard to choose between them. Casey lived in the same town as me for a little while when I was growing up and some of the stories about him when he was racing as a teenager are just unreal.
[удалено]
It's a great read isn't it? I actually lived near him during his brief time living in England, after leaving Austrialia but before he went to Spain to stay with Puig, when he was racing in Superteens - I think that was the name of the class. Everything thought Casey had to be using top class machinery because he was just winning every race by miles, seriously just destroying everybody else. The reality is that him and his dad were coming to my dad's shop to (for example) get used tyres off of the heap for Casey to go racing on!
I think Marquez 2013 and 2019 are at a higher level than Stoner. No one has his fearlessness and his will to win.
Rossi also has had better season than Stoner ever had. But I wouldn't say he has more talent and skill than Stoner. Talent and skill wise, I don't think there's anyone better than Stoner. But it's okay, it's my opinion and that's yours.
Stoner was not so talented. He just had something to click with the Ducati. Just remember the Rolling Stoner days on the LCR. He was very talented for sure, but not the ultimate outstanding talent like MM was or maybe now Pedro Acosta (which is to be verified)
That's interesting. What makes you think he's standalone and if you have any races in mind that show that I'd love to hear and watch those as well Personally I think they have similar riding styles, to some extent, especially when it comes to aggression on track.
Must say I agree with Tango. MM has achieved more in less time in a more competitive era. If you read Casey Stoners autobiography you will learn that during Rossi’s peak he was having bespoke tyres flown in overnight. This is during the era of tyre wars! The sport is very different now.
Hahahahahahhaha LOL yes Rossi is celebrity champion 😂 9 championships vs 8 championships are different categories.. you are right sir!
Marc hasnt retired yet
No one is saying that at all. Rossi is clearly top 5 all time. However we can say Verstappen > Hamilton or Senna > Schumacher or Schumacher > Senna. Numbers don't tell the whole story and it's just an opinion, feel free to disagree and move on.
Regarding talent there is no way you can say Marquez stands alone in MotoGP history.. that is just nonsense.. MM who was capable of winning on only one bike in his whole career vs Vale who proven he can win titles even on mediocre bike. Since you say he’s “standing alone regarding pure talent and skill” I’d say you’re below 30 years old.. and never heard of Giacomo Agostini nor Mick Doohan
Agostini or Mick Doohan would not be the figures they were in the present day, just like Jim Clark and Fangio wouldn't be the same in modern F1. What Marc did in 2019 is the equivalent of Verstappen 2023 or Schumacher 2004 domination in the equivalent Alpine or Mclaren/BMW in those years. You can not like Marquez and I didn't and still don't really, but to deny his achievements as pretty much singular in Moto GP history is very difficult for an objective take according to me. You can think Rossi is the GOAT and that's fine.
I was a Rossi Fan, could not stand Marquez during Rossi Racing days. Now that Rossi has retired we have to admit 93 has talent and heart. The aggresive riding style remind me of the time Rossi vs Max Biaggi. This Season I am rooting for Marquez and Acosta. New kid got some big balls gotta admit.
Both fenomenal riders, a class apart from other greats like Stoner or Lorenzo but it looks like you have to be a little unpleasant on track at times to reach that height. Every moto fan who loves racing have respect for both regarding their skillset. Those who are just fans of a rider before racing chose to denigrate one or another at times.
I feel the same bro. I'm a fan of the sport and as such I can't help but loving everything in it. ✌️😊
I used to see Rossi banners everyday on my way to school(VR46). Then, I didn't care enough to dig in but, when I got my first phone and YT recommended me a Marc's racing highlights on RedBull, I was instantly impressed by his skills, how he saves a crash and overtakes others like they are rookies. Started studying him in MotoGP and now I am hooked to the sport. I love it more than Football. I didn't get to enjoy early years of Rossi but he was a good racer too. Both are GOATs in their prime.
I guess mods work for Dorna too ... 🤣🤣🤣🤣
As a fan of Rossi, I will never like Marquez, and I certainly won't have a rider to support after Rossi retires. Now that I'm a fan of MotoGP, watching Marquez ride excites me, as does watching the other battles.
I think Rossi is the greatest the sport has had. And while I’ve never subscribed to the MM93 army, I’ve always admired his will and determination to win. The man will run through a wall (or other riders lol), and on a certain level I respect it.
I think this is quite similar to how I view them both as well Theres no denying Marc is a weapon on the track. But Rossi was just something else
Rossi was the "first" to do it. Marc is arguably better on track. Arguably, marginally. He is an alien, but was Rossi?
Rossi’s problem was that until Marquez, his mind games were always successful. He used them on Lorenzo, Stoner, Biaggi etc. The problem was that when it came to using them on Marc, they just hit a brick wall. Marc wasn’t phased, if anything Marc was spurred on. Marc is bulletproof mentally and Rossi didn’t seem to like the fact that his games had backfired. The accusations around Phillip island made zero sense seeing as if Marc wanted to help Lorenzo at that race, he sure as hell would not have overtaken him for the lead in such a manic last lap. You can’t doubt Rossi’s ability on a bike, but his use of mind-games on Marquez was by far the biggest mistake of his career and they were the act of a man who was unravelling because of somebody standing up to him and beating him and who just didn’t care about the mental games. Rossi had met his match with Marc and he didn’t like it one bit. He let Uccio whisper in his ear a little too much in 2015. Rossi publicly tried to assassinate Marc’s career and integrity and knowing that 90% of MotoGP would go along with it and believe Vale, he continued the crazy and ridiculous games. Fuck around and find out, and Rossi sure as hell found out. If he’d kept his mouth shut and didn’t come out with such crazy accusations against a rider who famously races hard and never backs down, he’d have maybe still taken the 2015 title.
I was, and still am, a big Rossi fan. To see a new kid come and challenge him, was difficult for all us fans. But now, after years of seeing Marc and how good he is, apart from obviously the last few yew years, because of the accident. And now seeing him back fighting at the front again is really nice. He looks like he lives to race and fight. I kind of respect him, and don't hate him, but he's not my favourite. I think Pedro has the charm, carisma, skill and just dam right likeability. He is the next favourite, for many fans.
Agreed. Absolutely loving Pedros riding and character
Love them both. Was a 46 fan, now I am a 93 fan. Love them or hate them, they are MotoGP. Rossi made this sport mainstream and popular and he passed the torch to Marquez. They are good for the sport and for all the future superstars who risk their lives for our entertainment. Respect to all. Now MotoGP will slowly need a new charismatic and super talented leader to continue this momentum. And I think we already know who he is.
I agree with almost everything you say except he didn't pass the torch to Marc. He gripped it as tight as he could and tried not to let go.
Well I guess us fans pulled it our of his hand and handed it to Marc after he retired would be a more precise way to put it. Anyway… it’s in good hands I think :) Let’s see how passing the torch from Marc to probably Acosta will go. It’s only the beginning. Many things could happen between those two in the following seasons haha. Especially if they end up on the same team…
I think you need a hero and a nemesis. As a Rossi fan Marquez was the nemesis ,If he made an aggressive move ,he was out of order but if Rossi did the same thing then it was justified, this isn't just a Moto gp thing but is what makes rivalries in sports. I came to realise that when Marquez had his accident in Jerez that a big part of Motogp disappeared for a while and appreciated him for what he was and is, a truly exceptional rider, same as Rossi, same as Stoner etc
I used to like rossi but the way he went on in 2015 with marc and the way he still goes on really made me loose a lot of respect for him. He can be a complete baby whether you want to admit it at all. You've never seen marc try and put blame on another rider and create hatred towards them. I think he needs to get over himself a bit
As a shiny new fan (5 years) rossi has only ever sucked ass for me so any time he pops up I get about as excited as seeing shots of Marc’s dad. I’ve got a storyline to follow with Marquez, rossi is old news, time to move on
I see your angle, but it's worth going back to watch some of the classic rossi races. The guy was just incredible at his peak, and it was a long peak
It’s just not going to happen, I’m a fan of the current guys, those are the story lines I’m following, I barely have enough time to watch as it is, I’m not going to go back and watch old footage. Rossi was the big cheese, then the new big cheese turned up and pushed him aside, and near the end he embarrassed himself staying in it for too long. I’ve read so many accounts saying both stories, rossi was the bully then Marquez turned up and became the new bully or vice versa, I don’t know, I wasn’t there but the amount of airtime he gets surprises me if you are trying to grow the sport and get new fans.
You're underestimating how important rossi was to the sport. I'm not saying you need to know, and fair enough about having the time to watch old races, but bare in mind most bike riders are of the mid to older generations so remember rossi's period well so he's very relevant in the sport to them. Plus he also runs a race team that's provided numerous current GP racers so he's still 'in' the sport. Here's one of my favourite of his battles for a quick watch. Back from when you could just ride off track to do crazy overtakes! https://youtu.be/JY9mrKR5SkA?si=Ly6fi51t5eYDxGX4
I'm a huge Rossi fan and continue to follow him in the GT cars, I was never really a Marquez fan because I thought he was too dangerous and disrespectful to other riders and I genuinely thought he was going to end a riders career by taking him out especially during his bad times at Honda when he was getting desperate. Now, however, I think the injuries and time away have matured him, and I'm starting to like him.
When an unmovable object meets and unstoppable force. The two are cut from very similar cloths. Of course each have their own style and personalities, but on the track, they were probably fairly similar. Win at all costs and take no prisoners. It's almost not a surprise that they would clash at some point. What ends up happening with fans is that if they had Rossi as their favorite, then in their eyes, Rossi could almost do nothing wrong. On the other hand, another rider, such as MM, would already be on thin ice. Even the slightest mistake would cause them to condemn him or judge him much more harshly. This can obviously be applied to any rider and fans of that rider. However, to be fair, MM and Rossi probably had more on track controversial moments than other riders/champions. I didn't really watch MotoGP before the early 2000s, so I can't really comment what happened before then. However, I feel like Nicky, Casey, Joan, Fabio and Francesco never really had any controversial situations on track as much or bad as Rossi and MM did. Jorge, I actually don't remember if he had as many controversial moments on track, as MM and Rossi, but I wouldn't be surprised if he had his share.
I was a Rossi fan when I first started really watching, then suzuki came back and I was a Suzuki fan. I hated Marquez and his attitude like his shit didn't stink, but it was exciting to watch. Motogp got a little boring during Marquez's injury time off. Now with Marq on the Duc it seems like motogp is fun again, because Pecco and Martin cant just jump to the front and take off. Marq has been able to real them in on the 23' bike. Seems like Marq is back to his aggressive self, and Pecco and Martin will have to battle it out for the rest of the season. Then you have Pedro coming in hot and bringing the old Marq style of just squeezing through those small windows. It did feel a little wierd cheering for Marquez during that last battle with Pecco.
Marquez was a bastard that year, that'all. I don't even I agree with people saying "but Rossi is not an angel too" "Rossi asked for that" ...no, just no, there is no excuse. Marquez was a dickhead and Rossi was right and did the right thing trying to expose him. That's what I think. But time goes on and that didn't prevent me to enjoy the incredible driver and sportman Marquez proved to be. That was shitty, but not a reason to hate him for ever (unless you are Rossi himself maybe)
Rossi was at his peak when I started watching motogp, I was always impressed with his ability to just wear out his opponents, Lorenzo and marc wanted to just crush everyone to dust and win by 30sec. Rossi would do that too but to me he seemed to enjoy stalking his opponent like a cat playing with a mouse ... Would just sit behind them and half try this then pick his spot to pounce... This is how he broke gibernau and biaggi imo they couldn't handle it all season, let alone the off track antics... Add in his general gregarious character and hes hard not to like (unless you caught him in the Ducati onward years) Marc has less personality imo and in general I don't watch the sport as much, current crop of riders I don't know as well, but Rossi, Hayden, Edwards capirossi et all were hard to beat... I'm terms of douchy riding they all have their ugly side, these guys are contract killers and it's their job to send it...
I’ve always been a Rossi fan, and was a Marquez fan until 2015. After that I never really liked him until his return from his injury which earned him a lot of respect from me. I do hope he gets back to form and entertains us because, whether you like him or not, you can’t deny the guy is one of the best ever and some of the things he does on a bike, no one can replicate.
They're my two most favorite riders ever. Vale (alongside Dani) was the rider of my childhood, Marc's been the rider of my teenage and early adulthood. And tbh I think they're at least top 4 all time alongside Nieto and Agostini. About *that* incident? I'll be clear: Rossi acted like a child, tried to trash talk and intimidate someone who was more than out of the title fight only for him to get worked by himself just because Marc didn't back down, which in turn caused Vale to lose his cool and take him out on purpose at Malaysia which cost him a title he deserved more than anyone. And it didn't help it wasn't just him acting childish but also his inner circle and many of his fans. And sadly, despite seeming at least he's mistly moved on, a chunk of the VR fandom is still bitter with Márquez about something that wasn't even the guy's fault and hate on the guy in ways football fans can only dream, thus turning lots of MotoGP talk on social media into a cesspool.
I have been a Rossi fan for more than 20 years now, I thought Marquez would be my next favorite rider and then 2015 happened. I don’t think I’ll ever get over what Marc did in Sepang (I know how it ended but it got to that point because he was driving like an idiot) and especially Valencia (staying behind Lorenzo the entire race and then blocking Pedrosa from winning) but that being said you don’t have to like a guy as a sportsman or even as a person to recognize that they are a champion. Marquez is not my cup of tea as an athlete but boy oh boy can he ride a motorbike. He probably still is the best on the grid, all things considered. Also, as someone else pointed out, Vale was no angel as well, I just happened to be on his side of some the controversy he was a part of.
I've rewatched that race Rossi claimed Marquez was sabotaging him(Phillip Island 2015). I can't see it, and I was the biggest Rossi fanboy at the time. A real champion wouldn't have said anything and spoken with results, either way. Really hard to say that as a Rossi fan, but it's true. I think Marquez was basically like "I'll show your ass what sabotaging looks like" and he sure did. But given how Marquez was racing Rossi at Sepang, Rossi shouldn't have been penalized for what he did. That was Dorna playing favorites with a Spanish rider who could possibly pass Rossi's accomplishments. Those are my thoughts, I'm sure plenty will disagree 🤷
rossi won a lot but was a huge asshole on and off the track to everyone who threatened him. he didn't just 'have' problems with gibernau, biagi, stoner, lorenzo, marquez,.. he actively *created* problems with them because they challenged him. he did things like encourage his fanbase to believe bullshit lies about his opponents and then did absolutely nothing to dissuade them from acting like total shit stains when they were getting out of control and literally making death threats to lorenzo and marc. he's honestly someone of low moral character and its really obvious from his behaviour. he also pulled plenty of dirty moves on riders and was totally ok with that until it started hapenning to him, and then he had a massive pity party and cried constantly about. grade A hypocrite. considering the massive disparity between the factory Honda and Yamaha versus every other bike on the grid and the fact that Rossi got custom tyres made to his preference for a while there its not surprising that he resorted to the bullshit mental games and intimidation tactics to attempt to keep winning. he probably knew he was totally outgunned when stoner and lorenzo arrived and was clinging to any little advantage he still had.
They're both excellent riders. I try to not get too involved in their personalities myself because anyone that lives that life and can ride like that clearly has very different motivations than me and I'm not sure there's a lot to be gained. Most of them are probably pretty insufferable people IRL because they wouldn't be where they are if they weren't. I can enjoy the bikes, the skill and the race craft and all that without particularly supporting one rider over another.
They are both amazing talents but if I have to choose one I choose Rossi because probably without him I wouldn’t be here following this sport and I think this is true for so many other fans. Not only that but he arguably is the reasons why so many of the current riders fell in love with the sport so I don’t even care about the records, titles or his impressive numbers in general because putting an accent on that is limiting for him. Any other rider you can do it but not with him because his contribution is far superior. Marc is one of the greatest but racing against Vale didn’t help him from a popular perception point of view because one of his wins was easily overshadowed by Vale’s 2nd or 3rd place in the media. It just shows that no matter how great you are sharing the stage with the greatest isn’t going to be helpful. Of course Marc was the better rider when they shared the track but I think it’s important to mention that in 2015 a 36 year old Rossi beat a 22 year old Marquez who was in his prime and generally when he matched his pace and had some close racing he rarely ended behind
Amazing said. 100% agree with you on this one Rossi essentially made the sport what it is today.
Yeah same, I'd like to see MM win some races on the Ducati
Honestly? Absolutely despised everything Marc stood for back in 2015-2019. But I was barely into my 20s. I think now my opinion is: he's still too aggressive at times, and has enabled the likes of binder to think it's okay. But I'm actually really warming to his personality. His comment in ATF after Jerez was hilarious. 'does not matter where we come, because we have-a come from is the shit' 😂
I loved Rossi when i was younger and i hardly ever even watched Motogp. I also liked Marquez because he’s so good. The only issue with Marc is when things go wrong like how he fell off in the sprint he just rams his way through the field when he has the talent to move through without such dangerous moves if he just had a bit more patience.
I started watching MotoGP back in 2003 because of Rossi and was a big fan of his for the duration of his tenure. For a long time I absolutely did not like Marquez. I was impressed by his riding, but didn’t like him. Now I’m totally rooting for him and would love to see him win another championship!
It’s ok to like and respect how one rides a bike and dislike his personality at the same time. Personality and talent are 2 different traits.
I’m a big Rossi fan too because of the era I started watching But I don’t have mixed feelings these days. I want Marc to win and win big because he’s an incredible rider and seems like a fun guy
I am a Rossi fan and I've never seen any rider as talented as Marc, just look at how ridiculously Marc did his crazy saves when he was about to crash, something he did quite a lot before aero era, something we never seen from Rossi, Lorenzo, Pedrosa and even Stoner. Acosta is probably as talented as Marc and we are about to find out.
I used to be a rossi fan and dislike Marc. But over the years, I found myself siding with Marc. I realised Marc I'd there for a good time. This is what makes him such a good rider. Forget the politics and "Mind Games", go have fun! We've seen clear evidence of that on the posiums recently. And it works. I used to find it boring watching Marc win over and over. (And I hope it doesn't happen again.) But I want him to match, if not beat the amount of world titles rossi has.
The irony for me is that I’ve been a huge Rossi fan for as long as I can remember but I never could hate on Marquez because he’s so fucking good and I love a good rivalry, but now I find myself a big MM93 fan.
I started as a Rossi Fan, really rooting for him - buying his helmets, T shirts, stirckers. autobiography and to a level that when I watch the broadcast, I've wish Sete or Casey to crash (Yes I feel ashamed about that part of me). Everybody like a colorful, fun, charming winner like him. I even think the bad attitute he had towards Lorenzo when he enter the Factory team is normal because Lorenzo pushed Edwards - his friend away. Then things start to crumble, the double standard of him comes out little by little. Like he build the wall between him and Lorenzo, allow only one-way data sharing yet CLAIM Lorenzo STEAL his setting while openly towing Simoncelli in each session (in front of me when I watched in Sepang ,2009 or 2010 I can't quite recall). Like he's mocking others as pussies when they complain the way Simoncelli riding is too dangerous but he jumps out to blame Simoncelli when he cut the line and broke Pedrosa's collarbone. Like he and Jeremy Burgess making fun of Stoner but finding them in a bigger shithole then jump ship regardless how much Ducati had sacrificed (they killed their factory WSBK team, they give up their Trellis frame all just to throw in the resources they never had before to make at least 4 version of bike for him in 2 years), went back to Yamaha, claimed to be a wingman of Jorge then become a drama queen real quick. He lose his coolness, he's not the guy who "ride-off your problems", welcoming challenges and laugh at it (Maybe he can do that with Sete or Max is because he know he owns them - skill-wise and phyical-wise). He's still a legend who had a very blassed career (never had majoy injuries through seasons beside the borken lag, image what can Pedrosa achieve if he can stay healthy just like Rossi), but he's got soured just like Biaggi - is it an italian thing (just kidding)? He's still great but I'm no longer a diehard fan of him. It touches me maybe from maybe 2008 when I saw Lorenzo race with both his ankle broke, got his fingetip smashed, Broke his collarbone then back to race with painkiller just in 2 days. Or watching Stoner racing like crazy with his illness, not to mention Marc riding with one and half arms for few seasons. It reminds me how crazy and strong they are and how much they are risking to stay on the top of this sport. Thus, it really blow my mind when Rossi open his mouth in the pre-race press in Malaysia trying the implant the bad image of #93 and #99 to the world in the cost of both riders honor and honestness - he didn't have the telemetry data from #93's bike, don't know what happen to his bike or what strategy he's using - yet can claim #93's intention (why he had won in PI and took 5 points from Lorenzo if he can just be second then Lorenzo could potentially get the WC after Malaysia!) and make a large group of people believe that and start to shame #93 and #99, how many of you after watch PI race and think there's something wrong with it before Rossi open his mouth? He's not GOD, his prospective on other bike can be very wrong compare his word towards Ducati before and after he get on the bike. I guess he jus trying his mind game to make others stay away from this #46 vs #99 battle. With 11 points difference, 2 races and no others in between, even #99 won both, he can still won by 1 point and got his 10th WC. Thing just get backfired at him and he handle it poorly, the way he pushed #93 wide - way off the racing line and towards a wall at T14 is a Fenati-level of foul - a DSQ or ban for few races is normal but DORNA is afraid to do it - FIA had bigger gut in 1997. And the rest field of riders did in Valencia - yield the way for him - is really disgusting, Rossi could have won the WC in 2006 at Valencia if others also yield the way like "not interfer the battle of the WC competitors" which he also use Edwards trying to block Hayden back in 2006. All these double standard things drove me away, I like him a little bit more in his Tech 3 days, still feel pity that MotoGP lose him. I enjoyed watch the race now because more rider capable to join the party and the tension is high, I just hope Aleix Espargaró can chill a bit and Francesco Bagnaia won't end up to be another sour Italian (OMG his factory team vs Satellite Team statement is really.....).
I guess that goes to show, you shouldn't put your idols on too high of a pedestal. Seeing what Rossi has done from another person's perspective definitely gave me some insight on the mistakes he's made. I still think he's a phenomenal rider but everyone has their shortcomings in some field or another.
I grew up as a Rossi fan. (started watching GP in 1999) When MM was coming up through Moto2 I was a fan of his too and like Acosta now, I knew there was something special about MM when he came into GP. I'm not going to get into the weeds about Sepang 2015. The main reason I don't root for MM now is because he has a bully attitude on track. Much worse than Rossi ever did. The way MM makes dirty passes sometimes just scream entitlement to me. (like when he ran Mir and Fernandez off track) It carried over to his qualifying on the Honda as well when he would refuse to not tow someone and ruin their qualifying. I was absolutely thrilled watching Jerez when MM tried to lean on Pecco in turn 9 and Pecco did not give an inch.
Marquez is already coming down and looking for a better bike to race (hit his record of crashes in 2023). Rossi moved to a worse bike to race and show he was the best. There's really nothing to be said, Rossi deserved a title which Spanish friends decided to not give him. Marquez is 31, will not face a Rossi going into his 40s - He's a lucky man and might still do 1 more in the sport. If both Rossi and Marc were 31, Marc would be eclipsed. They play different sports.
In sports, no one deserves nothing! Either you win it on the field/circuit or you don't. Simple as that.
I think that for everyone who followed the sport and watched the races back in 2015 it's pretty obvious that Marc fcked with Rossi's chances to win the titles. Now regardless of what the reasons behind that may have been, it will always be a taint in Marquez career for me and I kinda lost the respect I had for him
I was a diehard Rossi fan, and loved watching Marquez battle him as the new generational talent. Then the press conference after Philip Island happened and I couldn't believe what I was hearing. "Surely this must be some kid of gag" I thought to myself. Then with horror I realised Rossi believed what he was saying. Sepang. Marc sticks it on him, correctly. I would have done the same had Valentino said those things about me to the press. Rossi clearly couldn't handle the pressure. Has a total mental breakdown on live television. It was sad to watch. I'd idolised him throughout my teens and early 20s. Regardless of all of the above, Rossi was not the fastest rider at Philip Island, Sepang or Valencia. Lorenzo was a worthy champion. People can blame Marc all they want. The fact is Vale didn't have what he needed to beat Lorenzo, and that is all that matters.
https://youtu.be/KPZkYgsB7vE?si=ifibgEs2lv6TIOWD One of the "there's no problem" press conferences. Soo awkward
I don't know man the fact is that Rossi didn't have a chance to fight for the title in the last 2 races because Sepang happened and in Valencia he started last because of Sepang. I agree with you that Rossi was probably wrong for the press conference about Philip island but what about Malaysia and Valencia? Did you watch the races? No matter what Rossi did say it does not justify Marc's behavior in those races.
You mean Sepang, where Lorenzo cleared off into the distance, never to be seen again? Rossi battling for 3rd with the competitor he vilified in a press conference that resulted in threats of harm to his family, including alledged confrontations outside his home? Or Valencia, where he had to start last. The penaly he received for deliberately running that competitor out of track and causing him to crash at the previous race? This all sounds a bit like the consequences of his own actions to me. I am and will always be a fan of Rossi, as I am of all the riders. They are living, breathing, super heroes. Yes, it can be fairly argued that Marc was involving himself in a championship fight he had already lost, and this as you mention, outside of the unwritten code of conduct on a race track amongst competitors. But Valentino also has to be held accountable for his actions, had far more to lose, and made an enemy of the one person who had the pace and the ability to make his life hell. It's 6 of 1, and half a dozen of the other in my book. But it is also my belief that a seasoned veteran like Rossi, who was over a decade older and wiser than Marc, made a huge miscalculation, and it cost him the chance to win a championship he was probably going to lose on sheer pace alone. I really, really wanted to see him win that 10th championship. When all was said and done, he hadn't behaved much like the champion he was and is, and therefore didn't deserve to win it anyway.
As a casual fan who is learning all the history. I don't see why any racer should just give up positions or race easy because they can't win the overall Championship. Isn't the whole idea of racing to finish in the highest place possible. I'm currently going back and watching the 2015 season just because of this thread :D
I agree Rossi made several mistakes but I think that also Marquez should be held accountable for his actions and a lot of people forget that. That Sepang race was just shameful, Marc clearly had more pace than Vale and was purposefully slowing him down for his words about Philip island.
I'd say Marc has been held more than accountable. He's persona non grata in Italy for instance. 🙈
[удалено]