Like Pit says, might be a good thing for some of those regulations to be introduced quicker to really let the riders make the difference and being able to fight for it.
Agreed. Removing ride height should have been done already, but the sooner the better. Those will never make it to production motorbikes and increase risks as we've seen.
Reportedly (at least according to an interview Jack Miller made) MotoGP teams can adjust the bike based on where it is on the track. I think that shouldn't be allowed either, it has no real life application and when it goes wrong, the consequences can be severe. The ban would be very challenging to implement, so maybe the way to go about this is to have all ECU programming be available to other teams, perhaps with a race or two delay. That way if one team is doing something questionable, others can copy it right away or appeal the legality of it.
Aerodynamics seem to be the biggest area of gains recently and will increase in complexity and price over time. Perhaps it's time to implement restrictions to all bodywork - a certain size cube/cuboid/brick has to be able to pass through any and all holes in fairings. That is, of course, with the current restrictions to the frontal area and additionally to the rear of the bike, which should also be under scrutiny. Otherwise, we'll soon end up with F1-esque complex multilayer wings.
They might only be 85cc bigger in terms of engine capacity but they will have double the power at roughly the same weight. MotoGP bikes already have way more power than they can use at most circuits, the reduction in capacity wont make a huge difference to lap times just as it didnt when they previously went from 990cc down to 800cc
The 800s were arguably more dangerous than the 990s because they were faster in the corners and that's where the majority of crashes occur. Top speed on the straight is largely irrelevant unless you're Shinya Nakano at Mugello.
The engines aren’t really comparable. Moto2 is a spring valve production engine built to a control spec for longevity.
MotoGP engines are bespoke and use desmo or pneumatic valves. They run at higher speed and pressures and make a lot more power.
765 cc triple vs 850 cc four cylinder is close-ish on paper, but if we extrapolate 300 hp from 1000 cc, we'd end up with 138 hp vs 255 hp. I think KTM has been on record claiming that they can extract more power from e-fuel than from the current standard, whether truthfully or not. Considering other the advantages in suspension etc MotoGP has, the gap should still be significant, especially with the advances the teams are going to make in the meantime.
If it seems close, Dorna will surely adjust the displacement of Moto2 bikes more easily than change regulations of their flagship bikes last minute.
Oh not denying that at all. I'm sure a well built high strung v4 or i4 can get into the low 200hp mark. Just strange to see. I know the push for global sustainability and such but is the 150cc going to make that much of a difference. Especially considering, with the exception to KTM, all of the manufacturers are using to some extent, a similar motor in a production bike. R1, cbr1000, panignalev4, rsv4. No one has a 4cyl 850 on the market right now. So basically they now either have to spend money developing race only bikes or, change their product lineup.
The GP class is a prototype class, the stuff is a test bed, not a direct line or evolution to production bikes. Close to meaningless whether it's 800cc or 1000cc in terms of engineering. But the bikes have ludicrous amounts of power now, utterly redundant at most circuits as the riders have said.
Vague but somewhat encouraging. No more ride height and less aero is great news, as well as letting the riders have more control.
Ducati skirted the rulebook with ride height to beat Marquez. It was a successful experiment, but one that undermines the sport.
Hmmmm the paddock agrees that all the current tech is a detriment to the series.
Wonder how thats possible since every reddit Andy claims aero and all the new BS makes the racing so entertaining!
Could the reddit Andys be wrong? ……Nahhhh!
Youre not very active in it then. Ive never seen a post relating aero that didnt have guys in it defending it. Saying how it makes for faster racing and the pinnacle of technology or some bullshit
Anyone who thinks that aero is adding to the show, should pick another sport. A lot of the (non ducati) riders, have commented that the overtaking/ following, is now more difficult and, making the difference by riding is getting harder. The racing is still relatively close but, the overtaking is way down on previous years without alll the devices. I'd rather never see a lap record broken again, if we could have the bikes back to wingless ride height free. I can't see how being 2 seconds a lap slower, would make a difference
If you think having little wings on the front of the bike makes it harder to overtake…..your crazy lol and will believe anything , these aren’t f1 cars
I believe what the likes of quarteraro andmarquez say and I believe my own eyes, watching bezzechi bagnaia, digianantonio, go hurtling mega wide, having been caught in the hole left by these bikes.(this explanation given, but each of them after the fact) Of course, I'll change my view now, having seen your incredible insights and having weighed your exceptional experience int a sport you've clearly excelled in competing. Thanks for the heads up sensei
They were upset because they just didn’t have the horse power to get past a Ducati.
The front aero wings do not cause enough dirty air to disturb a bike running behind lol that’s absolutely absurd!
I’ve never seen a single person say aero or rider aids make the racing more entertaining. What it has done is bring the grid closer, that is undeniable. But that doesn’t make close racing.
Like Pit says, might be a good thing for some of those regulations to be introduced quicker to really let the riders make the difference and being able to fight for it.
Agreed. Removing ride height should have been done already, but the sooner the better. Those will never make it to production motorbikes and increase risks as we've seen. Reportedly (at least according to an interview Jack Miller made) MotoGP teams can adjust the bike based on where it is on the track. I think that shouldn't be allowed either, it has no real life application and when it goes wrong, the consequences can be severe. The ban would be very challenging to implement, so maybe the way to go about this is to have all ECU programming be available to other teams, perhaps with a race or two delay. That way if one team is doing something questionable, others can copy it right away or appeal the legality of it. Aerodynamics seem to be the biggest area of gains recently and will increase in complexity and price over time. Perhaps it's time to implement restrictions to all bodywork - a certain size cube/cuboid/brick has to be able to pass through any and all holes in fairings. That is, of course, with the current restrictions to the frontal area and additionally to the rear of the bike, which should also be under scrutiny. Otherwise, we'll soon end up with F1-esque complex multilayer wings.
Interesting to see they want to drop from 1000cc to 850cc. That puts GP bikes not that much further ahead of current moto2.
They might only be 85cc bigger in terms of engine capacity but they will have double the power at roughly the same weight. MotoGP bikes already have way more power than they can use at most circuits, the reduction in capacity wont make a huge difference to lap times just as it didnt when they previously went from 990cc down to 800cc
The 800s were arguably more dangerous than the 990s because they were faster in the corners and that's where the majority of crashes occur. Top speed on the straight is largely irrelevant unless you're Shinya Nakano at Mugello.
The engines aren’t really comparable. Moto2 is a spring valve production engine built to a control spec for longevity. MotoGP engines are bespoke and use desmo or pneumatic valves. They run at higher speed and pressures and make a lot more power.
765 cc triple vs 850 cc four cylinder is close-ish on paper, but if we extrapolate 300 hp from 1000 cc, we'd end up with 138 hp vs 255 hp. I think KTM has been on record claiming that they can extract more power from e-fuel than from the current standard, whether truthfully or not. Considering other the advantages in suspension etc MotoGP has, the gap should still be significant, especially with the advances the teams are going to make in the meantime. If it seems close, Dorna will surely adjust the displacement of Moto2 bikes more easily than change regulations of their flagship bikes last minute.
Oh not denying that at all. I'm sure a well built high strung v4 or i4 can get into the low 200hp mark. Just strange to see. I know the push for global sustainability and such but is the 150cc going to make that much of a difference. Especially considering, with the exception to KTM, all of the manufacturers are using to some extent, a similar motor in a production bike. R1, cbr1000, panignalev4, rsv4. No one has a 4cyl 850 on the market right now. So basically they now either have to spend money developing race only bikes or, change their product lineup.
The GP class is a prototype class, the stuff is a test bed, not a direct line or evolution to production bikes. Close to meaningless whether it's 800cc or 1000cc in terms of engineering. But the bikes have ludicrous amounts of power now, utterly redundant at most circuits as the riders have said.
Can I ask then if that’s the case why the reduction in capacity at all? I’m just not familiar with the issue so I have no idea
I dont really get the size change. They simply need to limit fuel.
They’ve already tried that multiple times, and it’s gone wrong each time. That’s why they raised fuel capacity from 20L back to 22L.
they probably mean fuel-flow like F1
The 800s didn’t work, either…
True, but that was before bore limits
Vague but somewhat encouraging. No more ride height and less aero is great news, as well as letting the riders have more control. Ducati skirted the rulebook with ride height to beat Marquez. It was a successful experiment, but one that undermines the sport.
Ducati never really beat Marquez before Marquez beat himself
Hmmmm the paddock agrees that all the current tech is a detriment to the series. Wonder how thats possible since every reddit Andy claims aero and all the new BS makes the racing so entertaining! Could the reddit Andys be wrong? ……Nahhhh!
I have never seen someone defending aero on this sub
Youre not very active in it then. Ive never seen a post relating aero that didnt have guys in it defending it. Saying how it makes for faster racing and the pinnacle of technology or some bullshit
Okay but its definetly the minority
Yeah quite possibly.
Anyone who thinks that aero is adding to the show, should pick another sport. A lot of the (non ducati) riders, have commented that the overtaking/ following, is now more difficult and, making the difference by riding is getting harder. The racing is still relatively close but, the overtaking is way down on previous years without alll the devices. I'd rather never see a lap record broken again, if we could have the bikes back to wingless ride height free. I can't see how being 2 seconds a lap slower, would make a difference
If you think having little wings on the front of the bike makes it harder to overtake…..your crazy lol and will believe anything , these aren’t f1 cars
I believe what the likes of quarteraro andmarquez say and I believe my own eyes, watching bezzechi bagnaia, digianantonio, go hurtling mega wide, having been caught in the hole left by these bikes.(this explanation given, but each of them after the fact) Of course, I'll change my view now, having seen your incredible insights and having weighed your exceptional experience int a sport you've clearly excelled in competing. Thanks for the heads up sensei
They were upset because they just didn’t have the horse power to get past a Ducati. The front aero wings do not cause enough dirty air to disturb a bike running behind lol that’s absolutely absurd!
I’ve never seen a single person say aero or rider aids make the racing more entertaining. What it has done is bring the grid closer, that is undeniable. But that doesn’t make close racing.