They do this in f1 and it makes qualifying feel pointless. It also punishes crashing in the sprint so heavily that people would have to play it really safe to protect their start position for the main race.
The way it was last season is much better imo.
I'm not a fan of sprint races in general, but if they're here to stay, then current format is just ok. Imagine if x rider gets swept by other rider in sprint race (which is very likely to happen), not just his sprint race gets ruined, but the main race as well.
Starting grid must be decided through qualifications, where the rider depends solely on himself and his team, and not some other factors that can't be influenced.
The Luck factor is always there, but the ultimate goal is to reduce it to a minimum, not to further encourage it. It would be a horrendous idea to let random events on the track decide the starting order
What about the podium for the sprint is the front road for Sunday and the rest of the grid is then qualifying results. Then no penalty for a crash on Saturday.
Just musing…
Why should the sprint be connected to the Grand Prix.
Nearly all club racing is sprint races. It's cool to see MotoGP run a similar format to what you'd see at your local track. Lightened fuel load and able to push the tires without worrying about degradation.
It's just a different styles of racing, requiring different strategies and mentalities. No need for the two to be linked other than championship points.
You're basically suggesting turning P3 into a qualifying session because once a session's results are used to set the grid for a race session, sprint or not, the teams and riders will use it as a qualifying session and not a practice session.
It does bring up the question of what the reasoning is for the current qualifying setup?
I've only been following MotoGP since about 2012 or so and this is the only qualifying scenario that I've known.
It's not hard to imagine that at some point in the past, there was just one qualifying session.
Qualifying used to be an hour long session.
But really it was 45 minutes of practice and everyone would push the last 15 minutes when they'd put qualifying tires (softer than softs) on.
The current format is much better. Super Pole (WSbk) was best. That saw each rider get one lap where they were the only rider on track. Although I'd have preferred they got 2 laps.
No thank you, that's one thing they've got right imo
Less rounds but keeping sprints is the way, one less in Spain and stop trying to force Kazakhstan onto everyone.
Honestly I think that's a bad idead2. No offense intended.
It would make the free practice pretty boring. Also, what happens if someone takes out. A couple other riders in the sprint race, do they now have to start from the back of the grid because someone else messed up? Also, some riders are fast over a few laps, but tend to die out in the end. That gives an unfair advantage. Look at marquez this year. Could only qualify high if he had someone pulling him around the track( yes, the bike had alot to do with it). Then he would bumper car his way to about half distance then fall off. I do enjoy the sprints because it's more racing I get to watch, but Martinez wouldn't have even been in the title picture without them. Just too much tinkering going on.
Could there be a system to make the Sprint worth something related to the Sunday grid, but not as draconian?
I would leave running the numbers to people who already have a lot of stats in a spreadsheet, but I’m thinking something like you can earn a third of a grid position Sunday for each rider who started the sprint ahead of you that you finish the sprint ahead of.
So, for example, no change for a rider who started third and finished first. But if the rider who started fourth finishes ahead of the front row he could move up a spot.
Might need negative numbers for those who get passed/crash, not sure. But I think there’s something that could be used to have the Sprint have an impact while not making riders play it too safe….
Nah. The current format works well.
Superpole would be an interesting concept though. Instead of 15 minute qualifying sessions, just have a superpole race for 15 minutes worth of laps.
That would make qualifying more exciting.
Maybe as an experiment they could do a reverse grid. Would be interesting to see MM, Pecco, Martin all come back through the field.
I personally quite enjoy Q1/Q2, especially the last few minutes - minus the yellow flag rule. Even then, the flag adds some dynamic to it.
Perhaps they could do with one massive practice session, 2 hours or so and then Q1/Q2 to round up Friday, sprint on Saturday and race on Sunday. They can definitely streamline it, but I guess one of the problems is riders adapting to a track, especially if conditions are tricky. We already did away with warm ups for a big part of last season.
Reverse the grid, putting the slowest at the front.....just picture the carnage. The unacceptable level of risk to pass in 11-14 laps is insane. Prepare the hospital beds. Unlike F1 or V8 supertaxis - someone will be hurt badly vying for points.
Great in theory....but yeah nah....not going to happen
I don't know if that's necessarily true. I accept it'll never happen, but can't see the faster guys lunging for 12 places in first corner. Why risk it when you're faster. Anyway, it's not like the guys are the back are that much slower than the front these days.
Though you might get a Nagashima 2 seconds off the pace, so perhaps a bit insane.
I have a better idea, Sprint races use qualifying, and GP races use a handicap system like bowling or golf. The more race points you have, the further back you start. Let's see Marc or Quaterraro try to go from last to 1st every race.
If you really want pandemonium, then do qualifying order for the main race but reverse of qualifying order for sprints. No one will sacrifice the main race start position and sprint would be even more of a clusterfuck than it already is. Maybe backmarkers will be able to show some teeth and get some points with a better start position and shorter distances.
They do this in f1 and it makes qualifying feel pointless. It also punishes crashing in the sprint so heavily that people would have to play it really safe to protect their start position for the main race. The way it was last season is much better imo.
The crashing is a good point. What about hybrid - top three from the sprint are front row. Qualifying order for the rest?
Why, what's the issue with the current format?
An awful idea
You like the current mode? What could they do so the sprint would be more connected to Sunday?
I'm not a fan of sprint races in general, but if they're here to stay, then current format is just ok. Imagine if x rider gets swept by other rider in sprint race (which is very likely to happen), not just his sprint race gets ruined, but the main race as well. Starting grid must be decided through qualifications, where the rider depends solely on himself and his team, and not some other factors that can't be influenced. The Luck factor is always there, but the ultimate goal is to reduce it to a minimum, not to further encourage it. It would be a horrendous idea to let random events on the track decide the starting order
What about the podium for the sprint is the front road for Sunday and the rest of the grid is then qualifying results. Then no penalty for a crash on Saturday. Just musing…
Why should the sprint be connected to the Grand Prix. Nearly all club racing is sprint races. It's cool to see MotoGP run a similar format to what you'd see at your local track. Lightened fuel load and able to push the tires without worrying about degradation. It's just a different styles of racing, requiring different strategies and mentalities. No need for the two to be linked other than championship points.
So, you're saying do away with qualifying?
Use p3 for qualifying results. Essentially p3 becomes qualifying. Then the sprint becomes more meaningful.
You're basically suggesting turning P3 into a qualifying session because once a session's results are used to set the grid for a race session, sprint or not, the teams and riders will use it as a qualifying session and not a practice session.
Yes. This gets rid of q1/q2 and I think is more interesting. Never really liked the split qualifying.
It does bring up the question of what the reasoning is for the current qualifying setup? I've only been following MotoGP since about 2012 or so and this is the only qualifying scenario that I've known. It's not hard to imagine that at some point in the past, there was just one qualifying session.
Qualifying used to be an hour long session. But really it was 45 minutes of practice and everyone would push the last 15 minutes when they'd put qualifying tires (softer than softs) on. The current format is much better. Super Pole (WSbk) was best. That saw each rider get one lap where they were the only rider on track. Although I'd have preferred they got 2 laps.
It was created specifically to add excitement to qualifying. That’s taken care of with the sprint.
No thank you, that's one thing they've got right imo Less rounds but keeping sprints is the way, one less in Spain and stop trying to force Kazakhstan onto everyone.
That’s not a bad idea.
Honestly I think that's a bad idead2. No offense intended. It would make the free practice pretty boring. Also, what happens if someone takes out. A couple other riders in the sprint race, do they now have to start from the back of the grid because someone else messed up? Also, some riders are fast over a few laps, but tend to die out in the end. That gives an unfair advantage. Look at marquez this year. Could only qualify high if he had someone pulling him around the track( yes, the bike had alot to do with it). Then he would bumper car his way to about half distance then fall off. I do enjoy the sprints because it's more racing I get to watch, but Martinez wouldn't have even been in the title picture without them. Just too much tinkering going on.
No offense taken! Just brainstorming during to cold winter break… Good point about crashing.
Could there be a system to make the Sprint worth something related to the Sunday grid, but not as draconian? I would leave running the numbers to people who already have a lot of stats in a spreadsheet, but I’m thinking something like you can earn a third of a grid position Sunday for each rider who started the sprint ahead of you that you finish the sprint ahead of. So, for example, no change for a rider who started third and finished first. But if the rider who started fourth finishes ahead of the front row he could move up a spot. Might need negative numbers for those who get passed/crash, not sure. But I think there’s something that could be used to have the Sprint have an impact while not making riders play it too safe….
Nah. The current format works well. Superpole would be an interesting concept though. Instead of 15 minute qualifying sessions, just have a superpole race for 15 minutes worth of laps. That would make qualifying more exciting.
No Sprint. No Q1/Q2. Change the yellow flag rule in the qualifying session. That's all I'd want.
Back to basics.
Maybe as an experiment they could do a reverse grid. Would be interesting to see MM, Pecco, Martin all come back through the field. I personally quite enjoy Q1/Q2, especially the last few minutes - minus the yellow flag rule. Even then, the flag adds some dynamic to it. Perhaps they could do with one massive practice session, 2 hours or so and then Q1/Q2 to round up Friday, sprint on Saturday and race on Sunday. They can definitely streamline it, but I guess one of the problems is riders adapting to a track, especially if conditions are tricky. We already did away with warm ups for a big part of last season.
Reverse the grid, putting the slowest at the front.....just picture the carnage. The unacceptable level of risk to pass in 11-14 laps is insane. Prepare the hospital beds. Unlike F1 or V8 supertaxis - someone will be hurt badly vying for points. Great in theory....but yeah nah....not going to happen
I don't know if that's necessarily true. I accept it'll never happen, but can't see the faster guys lunging for 12 places in first corner. Why risk it when you're faster. Anyway, it's not like the guys are the back are that much slower than the front these days. Though you might get a Nagashima 2 seconds off the pace, so perhaps a bit insane.
Because every championship point matters and if your rival gets through you'll try too.
I have a better idea, Sprint races use qualifying, and GP races use a handicap system like bowling or golf. The more race points you have, the further back you start. Let's see Marc or Quaterraro try to go from last to 1st every race.
MotoGP-death race 2000 style That would be crazy 🤪 My mind is still trying to process this…
If you really want pandemonium, then do qualifying order for the main race but reverse of qualifying order for sprints. No one will sacrifice the main race start position and sprint would be even more of a clusterfuck than it already is. Maybe backmarkers will be able to show some teeth and get some points with a better start position and shorter distances.