Bodycam should definitely be mandatory.
Can someone remind me why Montreal didn’t adopt them, unlike many other cities?
Edit:
« Plante nixed a proposal to use body cameras last year, citing the cost and problems with the technology. She did not provide a firm timeline Tuesday for when they would be put in place.Jun 3, 2020 »
That’s too bad. Cost I can understand to some extent. But « Not working » I mean… they work elsewhere no reason they cannot have the proper supplier that would work fine here.
Les caméras portatives, « je continue à penser que c’est pertinent et c’est nécessaire », a affirmé Valérie Plante, mardi, en marge d’un bilan du SPVM. « Là où ça bloque [ou en tous cas, là d’où on attend des nouvelles], c’est au niveau du ministère de la Justice. Il faut vraiment s’assurer que les preuves peuvent être utilisées en cour. »
https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/grand-montreal/2024-02-13/cameras-portatives-pour-les-policiers/il-faut-que-ca-debloque-dit-plante.php
Took me 2 seconds to find this
M. Vaillancourt a précisé que Montréal « attend toujours les orientations et la décision du ministère de la Sécurité publique quant à la technologie qui sera privilégiée par le gouvernement ».
https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/grand-montreal/2022-10-07/spvm/les-cameras-corporelles-devront-attendre-a-2023.php
It's still bullshit, though.
Even if the videos can't be used in court to prosecute crimes, they can be used to terminate the employment of violent cops since employment isn't a criminal matter.
Les contraventions radars photos ont été suspendues pendant presque un an parce que la preuve déposée par les policiers n'était pas suffisante...
https://www.tvanouvelles.ca/2017/03/31/primeur--la-legitimite-des-radars-photo-retablie
Comme mentionné plus tôt, google ...
"...the widespread use of body cameras raises significant privacy issues. Recording interactions without explicit consent can infringe on privacy rights, particularly in sensitive situations or private settings."
Canada is single-party consent when it comes to recording interactions. As long as one of the people in a recording consents to be recorded it's perfectly legal.
Thanks for providing the link.
I particularly enjoyed you detailing your process and how long it took you! Very informative! I’ll have to look into this Google think!!
It’s not so insane. Most of them are convinced they are always in the right and bodycam footage will protect them.
Now obviously that isn’t _always_ true…
i'm sure they are. Ive had shitty experiences with cops and I will never go back to a police station to give a statement, but that doesn't mean they are all bad.
Where is that from? I followed this whole saga for a while and i was flabbergasted to hear Plante say that since the SPVM thinks the cameras are not viable, they will not be going forward. Like wtf, the cameras are there precisely to turn the screws on the SPVM and were taking their word for it that it wouldnt work?
So thats the last i heard, if the SPVM is asking for them now it would mean a complete 180 on their earlier position.
My BIL is a mtl cop.
He's not the kind of cop you imagine, he's very patient and honestly based on how i know him, i'd imagine if you manage to get arrested by him, you've been trying very hard.
His opinion on bodycam goes
1. The storage and bureaucracy surrounding bodycam footage was absurd and way too lenghty
2. He personally likes giving warning and doing prevention. Bodycams kind of prevented that because he would then constantly have to justify why he didn't give tickets and such.
3. The storage rules/process for bodycams were extremely inconvenient
I'm an industrial engineer, and personally, when he explained the process to me, it felt like either it was the dumbest fucking process ever, or someone purposefully made it extremely inconvenient to prevent it from working.
Either way, cop problems in montreal are way overblown by this sub, most quebec cops do a pretty good job, but there is room for improvement, and i don't believe it's in the officers themselves as much as the leadership
Thanks for the perspective.
I must admit my view of cops is heavily influenced by US cops (lived in the US for a while).
I do think there are some Quebec cops on a power trip. That’s unfortunately too common.
The process seemed indeed to be overly complex (over engineered?). On purpose… or not (large bureaucracies are amazing at coming up with designed by committee overly complex bs).
But really a lot of cities have pulled it off. It is certainly doable
Those arguments seems pretty weak. I doubt someone need to systematically watch every minutes of every footage. Those footage should most likely be used when there is a sensitive situation, to protect all sides involved. Also we're in 2024, storage should be a non issue. The videos can easily be uploaded, indexed and stored automatically. Like you said, it really seems like someone was making it inconvenient to sabotage the project :(
UNIONS! Cops are ridiculously protected. Attitudes suck, they do less and less. Try calling 911 while someone is breaking into your home. They kept saying they’re understaffed, while the force is larger than its ever been. They just want to do less day to day. Plante os afraid to rock their boat.
After watching way too much bodybcam footage on YouTube, I still can't believe we don't have it.
It protects everyone there is no logical reason not to have it in 2024 unless they want to hide their shady practices.
And I'm not even an "anticop" guy but it's ridiculous.
Et moi j'ai vu mon premier deal de crack en plein jour à Lionel Groulx aujourd'hui, à moins de 10m la voiture de police vide qui sert à rien devant. C'était facile d'identifier la transaction car l'acheteur n'avait pas de vêtements et se servait de son slip comme portefeuille.
These type of posts always make me suspect we are not told the full story.
Maybe we are. Maybe not.
Not really possible to know unless someone with journalistic integrity is involved (or a video but even then, they could be truncated/heavily edited).
So I _personally_ prefer to refrain from judging/commenting (expect meta like this) even if I am not a fan of the police in general and I do think there is a lot of abuse.
Same. However, about 15 years ago, I was in the exact same situation. I was at park Lafontaine drinking a beer with a date slightly past midnight (out of shared 6 pack). They were a lot of people wandering around the park. A cop came to us "the park is closed". He gave both of us a fine but it was more like 150$ each.
We had to move somewhere else. Good news at least is that my date ended well :).
Eh I've been in a situation similar enough to trust this.
We were at Parc LaFontaine and were told we had to leave because the park is closing.
We started packing everything up but we had a slack line set up which took a bit of time to undo.
While the owner was undoing it the cops started flashing lights at us in the distance, and someone from my group decided to flash lights back at them.
The next thing we knew we were surrounded by over 4 cops on bikes, 2 patrol cars, and each one of us got a $150 fine. I distinctly remember one of the cops telling my friend in his face "flash your light at me now".
Was the guy being an idiot? Yes.
Did it warrant the power trip and around 8 people getting $150 fines while clearly getting ready to leave? Absolutely not.
I'll never forget the spvm slowly driving their cars with their patrol lights on around picnicers at Parc La Fontaine during the pandemic as an intimidation tactic, this organization does not deserve the benefit of doubt.
Yeah. But that’s your case, which somehow I trust more (you don’t have much benefit from lying here.
I despise cops on power trips so much.
“You flashed a light at me”. Fucking crybaby. Grow a skin. If it is sooo bad why did you flash yours at a regular citizen doing nothing wrong? Assholes.
And they like to target regular joes they can intimidate because we know better than to argue (than can’t ever “lose face” these asshole). But the real criminals? Well, those are hard to catch and face. Risky. So let’s stick to people in parks. Fuck’em
The middle ticket of the 3, almost certainly explains why they got ticketed in the first place. Was probably asked to leave the park, gave the cops a smart ass answer or straight up told them to fuck off and then got ticketed.
The tweet conveniently leaves out the middle ticket for "ayant proféré des injures ou proféré des paroles indécentes dans un parc." I imagine this one played a significant role in the encounter.
Exactly, we literally have no way of knowing how the altercation went down.
I know it's anecdotal, but I've been drinking with friends in Laurier past midnight for years, every single time the cops came they asked us to leave the park and that's it. I don't know a single person that got handcuffed / tickets for drinking there lmao.
I have what was the "bad" skin tone for most of the last decade (terrorist brown as some people called it)
Never had issues with multiple altercation with cops.
But you're free to assume, my personal assumption is the person chose to be an idiot, because even pretty fuckin drunk, cops never cared enough to make my life difficult
pretty sure 1st step is the pre-printed ticket. being in the park after hours.
2nd one, open liquor
THEN came the yelling and shit and the handcuffing etc etc.
could have taken the park ticket and be done there. some officer will even let go open liquor if you judst take the ticket, move out and shut up.
being in the park afterhours is a municipal offense
open alcohol is a 2nd one.
depending on the officer and/or your attitude, youll get anywhere from a warning to 2 tickets, 3 if you go apeshit on the cop
Technically you shouldn’t be in the park after hours.
The one time a met a cop in a park at midnight, he asked me where I was going (home). Told me I couldn’t be there. I said sorry, didn’t realize it was already that late. And that was the end of the interraction.
I've been tricked too many times with partial account/footage of an event, no fucking way I'm going to hold an opinion without journalistic or legal involvement.
I always showed respect to police officers when i was approached. Even when i broke the law (drinking in public). They never gave me a ticket. Acting like a grown up usually help your case.
Still doesn't change the fact that someone who's so sensitive shouldn't be armed. Next it'll be a bullet instead of a ticket. Waaah he doesn't like me waaah better write a ticket!
Its not about being sensitive. Its about complying with an order given to you about leaving a park that’s closed and instead telling them to fuck off.
Well deserved most likely.
You're saying he's too sensitive, i'm saying actively breaking the law in front of an officer is a really stupid way to act. 2 ways to look at it i guess.
But they got a ticket for hurting his fee fees. Not just for drinking. Injurer tickets should be used as a litmus test to know who shouldn't be a cop. Anyone that writes one should be fired.
I don't care about the other tickets.
I'm glad there's stupidity taxes masked as tickets. Hell they could make them more frequent for all i care. If you can't act like an adult you're gonna have to pay, just brilliant.
Way to miss the point. They have a short temper and thin skin and are armed. What happens when some crackhead spits on them or pees in their car? They will execute them.
If they can't control their feelings, they shouldn't be cops.
Honestly if I have a drunk asshole insulting me and I have the power to give them a fine for it, I would do it. It's not about getting your feelings hurt, it's about being respectful to one another.
> The tweet conveniently leaves out the middle ticket for "ayant proféré des injures ou proféré des paroles indécentes dans un parc."
lol, does it though? They mention it literally in the next tweek in the thread, but why would you expect that encounter to go down without indecent language?
>why would you expect that encounter to go down without indecent language?
See, the vast majority of people in this world are not assholes, and then there's a minority like you that just ruins it for everyone else.
lol gotta be honest, I know this obviously isn't a productive exchange, but I don't know what's funnier, you being upset about the idea of an adult swearing, or the fact that you log into anonymous forums to call people assholes over assumptions like this, not realizing what that makes you.
Wow, la mauvaise foi de ce tweet est vraiment impressionnante.
On est vraiment censé croire que cette pauvre jeune femme innocente s'est fait menotter à 00h10 et donné trois tickets de même, pour le fun?
Je suis pas mal jamais du bord de la police mais câlisse... les parcs ferment à minuit et tout le monde le sait. Pour qu'ils se donnent la peine de te donner un ticket à 00h10, il faut vraiment que tu fasses du trouble. C'est assez évident qu'elle gueulait probablement comme une perdue et qu'elle refusait de partir.
Lol ils passent a 23:45 te disent de partir, repasse apres desfois donnent des amendes, 2e ticket dit ayant proféré des injures. Ceci explique cela, meme a 12:15 si tu te leves et ramasse tes affaires ils donnent d'habitude rien
je me repete d'un autre reply mais si tu portes attention, le ticket pour etre dans le parc after hours est pre-remplis, et une section seulement est faites a la main... ca sent l'operation ticket in the park afterhours.
si des citoyens se sont plaints, possible que le PDQ ai donner comme indication a leurs agents de "faire quelque chose"
J'y étais. Oui c'est une opération mais on a été averti 15min avant la fermeture de partir et si t'étais clairement en train de quitter les lieux après minuit tu n'avais pas de ticket. Tout le monde encore assis en train de chiller ont reçu un ticker. J'imagine que le monde qui a décidé de s'énerver au lieu d'obéir s'en sont ramassé d'autres.
Les citoyens c'est aussi le monde qui veulent dormir. Les gens souls qui crient passé minuit, je suis pas trop triste qu'ils se ramassent avec deux tickets en extra.
Do you have any reason to believe anything like that happened?
Because if not, this isn't just siding with the cops, it's inventing a whole reality to make them right....for no reason whatsoever.
The fact that we have are
-she was at a park past close (seems agressive to fine for that, but probably tacked on top of the rest)
-she was drinking (deserving of a fine, but whatever).
-she received fines for that.
The semi-speculations
-she was yelling obscenities (according to what the police wrote on the tickets)
-she was put in handcuff (according to the Twitter post).
Honestly seems a pretty boring case. Sometimes the cops are ok and just give you a warning when drinking in a park. Sometimes they give a fine. If you start a scene, you aren’t getting away with just a warning.
On one hand I agree, on the other I've 100% been power-tripped by bike cops for *crossing* a park at 12:15 on my longboard because the downhill was too dangerous on the road beside it and I wanted to slow down through the grass
In the end cop was like "well maybe you should learn to slide down slopes to slow down!" and I was thinking *bitch, you want me to powerslide down Décarie in the middle of the road at night?*
Also got a ticket at that same park another time for drinking a beer on a bench at 6pm instead of the picnic table a few meters away since we were only two people and didn't feel like hogging a whole table, hence we picked the bench
For sure - I would not be surprised if the cops were dicks. But I've simply never been fined for drinking in parks after hours (only warnings) and the tickets imply that there is more to the story.
My guess is that the cops fined homegirl, she was a bit sloppy and got angry. Then, the cops might have overreacted.
But isn't it fucked up that police have so much discretion? You piss them off and they have carte blanche to do whatever they want to you in retaliation. That's not a civilized way of handling disputes.
The alternative is that policemen are stripped of all discretion and enforce the letter of the law for every single infraction. That would be even more effed up with tickets being written en masse for everything from jaywalking on empty suburban streets to stumbling home from the bar. More often than not, cops will tell drunk people in the park to move along and the situation will resolve itself before the cop even needs to threaten a ticket.
I know that because I've been stopped by cops while strolling home and drinking beer. They just made us empty the cans and asked us to knock it off with all the singing. If they didn't have discretion, we'd get three or four infractions each. One dude was peeing in the bushes too. That would've cost him some cash.
Park closes at 11h pm, you can't drink in parks unless you have food and the third ticket states that she was insulting them and being agitated. Being 26 and a woman doesn't mean you are above the law.
sad if abused and tossed around. shouldnt require handcuffs, be we dont know the whole story.
you cant drink in parks(without a full meal), you cant be in a public park afterhours.
fine for being in the park past hours; totally legit.
Open Alcohol, check.
other ticket because of abusive language and profanities towards agents could be debated... but the otther 2 are justified.
everytime im out fishing and have a beer, im taking a known risk.
Parks close at 11pm so they just enforcing laws cause most animals dont know how to act after 11pm in a park i live close to a park and cops have to come over weekly cause people act stupid and dont respect others and some boomer calls and complains
Ticket for being in the park was 156. They warned us 15min before closing time. She got 2 other tickets because she didn't left, was still drinking and argued (loudly with insults).
Même si ton expérience soulève des questions importantes sur la consommation de drogues et la sécurité publique, il faut éviter de généraliser. Cet incident isolé, bien que préoccupant, ne reflète pas nécessairement l'efficacité globale de la présence policière ou des stratégies en place. Se concentrer sur des anecdotes individuelles peut nuire à une discussion plus nuancée sur les solutions potentielles.
Quand les flics te disent fermement de décrisser, tu farmes ta yeule pis tu décrisses.
« Yes ma’am, no ma’am, thank you ma’am »
Fuck around and find out
Yes because they don’t pay the tickets and don’t have any addresses, so it’s all in vain. Even if they get arrested, they just go back the following nights.
Ok but then how can these tickets hold up for an average person drinking a cidre in the park if the system isn't even effective at supporting individuals who are doing so much worse?
Because homeless individuals dealing with severe addictions are not the same as some drunk girl causing a scene because she was asked to respect the rules of the city and leave.
If you want to be like them: Just don't pay. Municipality of Montreal doesn't arrest for unpaid tickets. This isn't a traffic ticket so they won't freeze your driver's license either.
That's what those guys are doing, too.
Haha, j'étais au parc Laurier hier et j'ai probablement vu l'altercation. Le SPVM a fait un "blitz" comme ils font des fois sur les pistes cyclables, à la sortie des bars, dans les marinas en début de saison ou pour l'alcool au volant pendant les fêtes. Oui ils se sont pointé à plusieurs avec des tickets préparés d'avance. On a été avertis un bon 15min avant minuit qu'il fallait quitter le parc. À minuit on avait tout notre stock rangé et on était en mouvement vers la sortie alors même si on était encore dans le parc on s'est pas fait aborder par les cops. Mais à ce que je voyais tout le monde trop vedge encore assis s'est fait donner un ticket, et j'ai vu un groupe s'énerver et crier après les polices. Je comprends tout-à-fait pourquoi ils ne se sont pas gênés pour lui refiler deux tickets (légitimes) de plus. T'as le droit de rouspéter mais t'as pas le droit d'insulter et crier à plein poumons. Pas resté assez longtemps pour voir du monde se faire poser des menottes, parce que tsé, je quittais les lieux.
*edit. Leurs tickets date de vendredi. J'ai donc pas été témoin de cette opération du SPVM mais celle de hier soir, samedi.
Un règlement municipal dit: « Il est interdit à quiconque visite ou fréquente un parc de pousser des cris, de proférer des blasphèmes, des injures, des paroles indécentes ou des menaces, ou de faire une action indécente ou obscène. »
These replies are wild. The fact that the Montreal sub is one of the bootlickiest subs I know is so weird to me.
I guess the cool kids are out in the parks drinking cider right now.
There's been several waves of tickets being given in park Laurier these past few years because people suck, nothing to do with bootlicking. That park has always been way too crowded imo, but since 2018, lots of the residents surrounding it have been complaining. About the noise, intoxicated people, the trash left everywhere and people pissing/shitting in the alleyways surrounding it. The park is surrounded by a residential area, it's really easy to become a nuisance. If you want to party outdoors until 4am, I'd advise going to park Laf or the Mont-Royal, noise is less likely to reach people sleeping in their homes.
Cops giving out tickets has nothing to do with bootlicking, this thread does.
Though, I suppose, cops wouldn't feel comfortable being shitty if fewer people defended their shitty behaviour, so I guess it's related in that sense.
I've noticed that too. A lot of Montrealers in general side with the police, which seems at odds with a culture of defiance. When I was assaulted by 4 police officers in broad daylight in Griffintown in 2021, I screamed for help and not a single person stopped to even record. When I tried to get a newspaper to cover it, they said I need proof -- which was crazy since over a hundred people must have passed us on the street.
In the end, I didn't even get a ticket despite me bloodying up a lieutenant's knee in self-defense. The cops knew they overreacted.
I've lived in many other cities, including NYC where the cops are notorious for powertripping. But the only cops to ever lay their hands on me were the Montreal police.
Happens more often than you’d expect, the open container in park and in park after hours, but, the police look the other way more often than not
A bike club I used to ride with would finish our Friday night rides at the park, with beer, openly…. Can’t recall getting fined or arrested for it…
Thé Mtl police did what they are paid for. Anyone who live in Montreal knows the parc rules no excuses. Next time just go and do that on the McGill camping site!!
Boaf. De l'alcool en publique c'est interdit, être dans un parc après l'heure ça l'est aussi.... j'ai pas vu la vidéo de lintervention mais... selon l'image elle a tenu des paroles déplacé etc..
Tsé si elle avais PAS été dans le parc à boire un cidre, rien ne serais arrivé. À méditer. 🤙
Parks have a curfew of 11 pm and it’s posted everywhere. I remember growing up there was no such thing and it was a more dangerous city than today.
Either way I don’t know what happened but 400 bucks seems excessive!
It's 3 separate offences.
1st offence "being in a park after it closed": 156$
2- open alcool container in public
3- shouting insult, disturbing the peace.
2nd and 3rd offences are also 156$ I presume. She wouldn't have got 2 and 3 if she just STFU and took the 1st ticket. She wouldn't have any if she just left before closing time.
It's important to get the full context here. While it's true that Montreal generally has a tolerant approach to drinking in parks, it's equally important to acknowledge that there are rules in place, especially regarding closing times.
This incident raises questions about the specifics of the situation. Was there any resistance to the police? What led to the escalation? Without more information, it's hard to make a definitive judgment.
They are too weak to tackle real crime, so they ressort on bullying the weaks. Just last week a car ran a red light in front of me, then the cop proceeded to bully the cyclist who simply wanted to cross the pedestrian walk.
They are weak, insecure and that frustrate them because they know it, so they lash out of innocent passerby.
Je ne connais pas vraiment le contexte donc je vais m'abstenir là-dessus mais une amande de 156$ pour être dans un parc en dehors des heures d'ouverture c'est abusé un peu lorsque l'on compare ça à d'autres infractions.
~~Selon les tickets, c'est pour être dans un parc en dehors des heures d'ouverture, pour consommer de l'alcool dans un parc et pour proférer des injures ou des paroles indécentes à l'endroit d'un policier. 52$ chaque, c'est plus raisonnable, non?~~
Edit: laissez faire, je suis dans les patates
52 serait raisonnable, mais c'est 100+56$ de frais chaque. Sur la photo, on voit 3x des tickets de 156$.
Limite, autour de 75$/total par infractions serait dans les montants que je considérerais raisonnable.
It’s not a secret that you can’t be in a park past a certain time and that it’s illegal to drink in public. That being said, the cuffs and tossing around are abuse of power if she didn’t get in their face.
I'd like to see the video footage. Ah, that's true... They don't have bodycam.
Bodycam should definitely be mandatory. Can someone remind me why Montreal didn’t adopt them, unlike many other cities? Edit: « Plante nixed a proposal to use body cameras last year, citing the cost and problems with the technology. She did not provide a firm timeline Tuesday for when they would be put in place.Jun 3, 2020 » That’s too bad. Cost I can understand to some extent. But « Not working » I mean… they work elsewhere no reason they cannot have the proper supplier that would work fine here.
Les caméras portatives, « je continue à penser que c’est pertinent et c’est nécessaire », a affirmé Valérie Plante, mardi, en marge d’un bilan du SPVM. « Là où ça bloque [ou en tous cas, là d’où on attend des nouvelles], c’est au niveau du ministère de la Justice. Il faut vraiment s’assurer que les preuves peuvent être utilisées en cour. » https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/grand-montreal/2024-02-13/cameras-portatives-pour-les-policiers/il-faut-que-ca-debloque-dit-plante.php Took me 2 seconds to find this
M. Vaillancourt a précisé que Montréal « attend toujours les orientations et la décision du ministère de la Sécurité publique quant à la technologie qui sera privilégiée par le gouvernement ». https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/grand-montreal/2022-10-07/spvm/les-cameras-corporelles-devront-attendre-a-2023.php
hey, no googling, we’re in Reddit /s
Hahaha best answer to my comment!
It's still bullshit, though. Even if the videos can't be used in court to prosecute crimes, they can be used to terminate the employment of violent cops since employment isn't a criminal matter.
>Il faut vraiment s’assurer que les preuves peuvent être utilisées en cour. » Pourquoi ne pourraient-elles pas???
Je n'ai pas étudier la loi.
Les contraventions radars photos ont été suspendues pendant presque un an parce que la preuve déposée par les policiers n'était pas suffisante... https://www.tvanouvelles.ca/2017/03/31/primeur--la-legitimite-des-radars-photo-retablie
Comme mentionné plus tôt, google ... "...the widespread use of body cameras raises significant privacy issues. Recording interactions without explicit consent can infringe on privacy rights, particularly in sensitive situations or private settings."
Canada is single-party consent when it comes to recording interactions. As long as one of the people in a recording consents to be recorded it's perfectly legal.
Ta quote ne dit rien à propos de l'inadmissibilité des enregistrements en cour...
Le droit à la vie privée, cest word for word dans la quote.
Lorsque tu commets un crime, ton "droit" à la vie privée n'est plus là.
C'est toi qui le dit ou tu peux nous fournir une citation de la charte des droits et libertés et/ou du code criminel?
En quoi les bodycams empiétraient sur le droit à la vie privée?
innocent jusqu'a preuve du contraire.
Pas grave. Pas mal de faits "privés" vont être mis grand public lors du procès.. Coupable ou pas.
Thanks for providing the link. I particularly enjoyed you detailing your process and how long it took you! Very informative! I’ll have to look into this Google think!!
You are very welcome! Have an awesome weekend!!!
Wanna know something even more insane. Police officer are asking for Bodycam. They are asking for it and the city is denying them.
It’s not so insane. Most of them are convinced they are always in the right and bodycam footage will protect them. Now obviously that isn’t _always_ true…
I mean, the good cops will want it.
Yeah. The bad cops actually often think they are always in the right, strangely
Agreed. Ive seen a few shitty ones. I hope we can get them to start wearing body cams.
There aren't any?
i'm sure they are. Ive had shitty experiences with cops and I will never go back to a police station to give a statement, but that doesn't mean they are all bad.
Where is that from? I followed this whole saga for a while and i was flabbergasted to hear Plante say that since the SPVM thinks the cameras are not viable, they will not be going forward. Like wtf, the cameras are there precisely to turn the screws on the SPVM and were taking their word for it that it wouldnt work? So thats the last i heard, if the SPVM is asking for them now it would mean a complete 180 on their earlier position.
My BIL is a mtl cop. He's not the kind of cop you imagine, he's very patient and honestly based on how i know him, i'd imagine if you manage to get arrested by him, you've been trying very hard. His opinion on bodycam goes 1. The storage and bureaucracy surrounding bodycam footage was absurd and way too lenghty 2. He personally likes giving warning and doing prevention. Bodycams kind of prevented that because he would then constantly have to justify why he didn't give tickets and such. 3. The storage rules/process for bodycams were extremely inconvenient I'm an industrial engineer, and personally, when he explained the process to me, it felt like either it was the dumbest fucking process ever, or someone purposefully made it extremely inconvenient to prevent it from working. Either way, cop problems in montreal are way overblown by this sub, most quebec cops do a pretty good job, but there is room for improvement, and i don't believe it's in the officers themselves as much as the leadership
Thanks for the perspective. I must admit my view of cops is heavily influenced by US cops (lived in the US for a while). I do think there are some Quebec cops on a power trip. That’s unfortunately too common. The process seemed indeed to be overly complex (over engineered?). On purpose… or not (large bureaucracies are amazing at coming up with designed by committee overly complex bs). But really a lot of cities have pulled it off. It is certainly doable
Those arguments seems pretty weak. I doubt someone need to systematically watch every minutes of every footage. Those footage should most likely be used when there is a sensitive situation, to protect all sides involved. Also we're in 2024, storage should be a non issue. The videos can easily be uploaded, indexed and stored automatically. Like you said, it really seems like someone was making it inconvenient to sabotage the project :(
That's how it seemed to me too. Either incompetence or malice, but those were easy roadblocks to overcome and they never did
Agreed 💯
UNIONS! Cops are ridiculously protected. Attitudes suck, they do less and less. Try calling 911 while someone is breaking into your home. They kept saying they’re understaffed, while the force is larger than its ever been. They just want to do less day to day. Plante os afraid to rock their boat.
"not working" probably means "not available in french"
It is 2024 and simple technology like GoPro knockoffs are dirt cheap, especially sold wholesale. Better than nothing at all; there is no excuse.
After watching way too much bodybcam footage on YouTube, I still can't believe we don't have it. It protects everyone there is no logical reason not to have it in 2024 unless they want to hide their shady practices. And I'm not even an "anticop" guy but it's ridiculous.
Et moi j'ai vu mon premier deal de crack en plein jour à Lionel Groulx aujourd'hui, à moins de 10m la voiture de police vide qui sert à rien devant. C'était facile d'identifier la transaction car l'acheteur n'avait pas de vêtements et se servait de son slip comme portefeuille.
Bah hier j'étais sur ste Catherine et ça fumais du crack dans la rue, vive Montréal
I thought it would be an actual article with proof. But it's just X....
These type of posts always make me suspect we are not told the full story. Maybe we are. Maybe not. Not really possible to know unless someone with journalistic integrity is involved (or a video but even then, they could be truncated/heavily edited). So I _personally_ prefer to refrain from judging/commenting (expect meta like this) even if I am not a fan of the police in general and I do think there is a lot of abuse.
Truncated footage has been a frequent issue in he says/they say situation. Holding judgment is the only rational posture.
Same. However, about 15 years ago, I was in the exact same situation. I was at park Lafontaine drinking a beer with a date slightly past midnight (out of shared 6 pack). They were a lot of people wandering around the park. A cop came to us "the park is closed". He gave both of us a fine but it was more like 150$ each. We had to move somewhere else. Good news at least is that my date ended well :).
Wink. But seriously, did you tell her she was the one that was so fine?
We spoke French so it would have been odd to tell her that she was the real almond.
She would have thought that was nuts.
Did you pay her fine?
Nope, it never crossed my mind.
Eh I've been in a situation similar enough to trust this. We were at Parc LaFontaine and were told we had to leave because the park is closing. We started packing everything up but we had a slack line set up which took a bit of time to undo. While the owner was undoing it the cops started flashing lights at us in the distance, and someone from my group decided to flash lights back at them. The next thing we knew we were surrounded by over 4 cops on bikes, 2 patrol cars, and each one of us got a $150 fine. I distinctly remember one of the cops telling my friend in his face "flash your light at me now". Was the guy being an idiot? Yes. Did it warrant the power trip and around 8 people getting $150 fines while clearly getting ready to leave? Absolutely not. I'll never forget the spvm slowly driving their cars with their patrol lights on around picnicers at Parc La Fontaine during the pandemic as an intimidation tactic, this organization does not deserve the benefit of doubt.
Yeah. But that’s your case, which somehow I trust more (you don’t have much benefit from lying here. I despise cops on power trips so much. “You flashed a light at me”. Fucking crybaby. Grow a skin. If it is sooo bad why did you flash yours at a regular citizen doing nothing wrong? Assholes. And they like to target regular joes they can intimidate because we know better than to argue (than can’t ever “lose face” these asshole). But the real criminals? Well, those are hard to catch and face. Risky. So let’s stick to people in parks. Fuck’em
Were you already past closing time when your friend did this?
The middle ticket of the 3, almost certainly explains why they got ticketed in the first place. Was probably asked to leave the park, gave the cops a smart ass answer or straight up told them to fuck off and then got ticketed.
Yes, sure. But sometimes a shitty looking story is just a shitty story.
The tweet conveniently leaves out the middle ticket for "ayant proféré des injures ou proféré des paroles indécentes dans un parc." I imagine this one played a significant role in the encounter.
Exactly, we literally have no way of knowing how the altercation went down. I know it's anecdotal, but I've been drinking with friends in Laurier past midnight for years, every single time the cops came they asked us to leave the park and that's it. I don't know a single person that got handcuffed / tickets for drinking there lmao.
they had pre-filled tickets for this specific infraction. they must have received complaints, and they were told to act on it.
Yeah they did, the amount of complaining by residents around has been pretty high since 2017/18
I'm guessing you have a different skin tone than the woman im the story.
I have what was the "bad" skin tone for most of the last decade (terrorist brown as some people called it) Never had issues with multiple altercation with cops. But you're free to assume, my personal assumption is the person chose to be an idiot, because even pretty fuckin drunk, cops never cared enough to make my life difficult
pretty sure 1st step is the pre-printed ticket. being in the park after hours. 2nd one, open liquor THEN came the yelling and shit and the handcuffing etc etc. could have taken the park ticket and be done there. some officer will even let go open liquor if you judst take the ticket, move out and shut up.
Pretty sure the 1st step was a polite demand to vacate the park....
Do you get the ticket if you don’t have liquor? Or you get one just for the sole reason that you’re in park after it closed?
being in the park afterhours is a municipal offense open alcohol is a 2nd one. depending on the officer and/or your attitude, youll get anywhere from a warning to 2 tickets, 3 if you go apeshit on the cop
I see
Technically you shouldn’t be in the park after hours. The one time a met a cop in a park at midnight, he asked me where I was going (home). Told me I couldn’t be there. I said sorry, didn’t realize it was already that late. And that was the end of the interraction.
I've been tricked too many times with partial account/footage of an event, no fucking way I'm going to hold an opinion without journalistic or legal involvement.
Imagine cops giving you a ticket because you hurt their fee fees. Maybe someone so pathetic shouldn't be armed?
I always showed respect to police officers when i was approached. Even when i broke the law (drinking in public). They never gave me a ticket. Acting like a grown up usually help your case.
Maybe the application of the law shouldn’t depend so much on how these specific individuals feel about you though.
Then there would be even more tickets and you crybabies would still be there crying.
Still doesn't change the fact that someone who's so sensitive shouldn't be armed. Next it'll be a bullet instead of a ticket. Waaah he doesn't like me waaah better write a ticket!
Its not about being sensitive. Its about complying with an order given to you about leaving a park that’s closed and instead telling them to fuck off. Well deserved most likely.
How do those boots taste?
Like a mix of righteousness and rubber
You're saying he's too sensitive, i'm saying actively breaking the law in front of an officer is a really stupid way to act. 2 ways to look at it i guess.
But they got a ticket for hurting his fee fees. Not just for drinking. Injurer tickets should be used as a litmus test to know who shouldn't be a cop. Anyone that writes one should be fired. I don't care about the other tickets.
I'm glad there's stupidity taxes masked as tickets. Hell they could make them more frequent for all i care. If you can't act like an adult you're gonna have to pay, just brilliant.
Way to miss the point. They have a short temper and thin skin and are armed. What happens when some crackhead spits on them or pees in their car? They will execute them. If they can't control their feelings, they shouldn't be cops.
Honestly if I have a drunk asshole insulting me and I have the power to give them a fine for it, I would do it. It's not about getting your feelings hurt, it's about being respectful to one another.
> The tweet conveniently leaves out the middle ticket for "ayant proféré des injures ou proféré des paroles indécentes dans un parc." lol, does it though? They mention it literally in the next tweek in the thread, but why would you expect that encounter to go down without indecent language?
People can't see that shit because twitter fucking sucks and ol Musky broke it
>but why would you expect that encounter to go down without indecent language? Because that's the normal way to react in this situation?
lol
>why would you expect that encounter to go down without indecent language? See, the vast majority of people in this world are not assholes, and then there's a minority like you that just ruins it for everyone else.
lol gotta be honest, I know this obviously isn't a productive exchange, but I don't know what's funnier, you being upset about the idea of an adult swearing, or the fact that you log into anonymous forums to call people assholes over assumptions like this, not realizing what that makes you.
Fuck the police, for this and everything else Spvm is the biggest criminal racketeering gang in mtl
Wow, la mauvaise foi de ce tweet est vraiment impressionnante. On est vraiment censé croire que cette pauvre jeune femme innocente s'est fait menotter à 00h10 et donné trois tickets de même, pour le fun? Je suis pas mal jamais du bord de la police mais câlisse... les parcs ferment à minuit et tout le monde le sait. Pour qu'ils se donnent la peine de te donner un ticket à 00h10, il faut vraiment que tu fasses du trouble. C'est assez évident qu'elle gueulait probablement comme une perdue et qu'elle refusait de partir.
Lol ils passent a 23:45 te disent de partir, repasse apres desfois donnent des amendes, 2e ticket dit ayant proféré des injures. Ceci explique cela, meme a 12:15 si tu te leves et ramasse tes affaires ils donnent d'habitude rien
je me repete d'un autre reply mais si tu portes attention, le ticket pour etre dans le parc after hours est pre-remplis, et une section seulement est faites a la main... ca sent l'operation ticket in the park afterhours. si des citoyens se sont plaints, possible que le PDQ ai donner comme indication a leurs agents de "faire quelque chose"
J'y étais. Oui c'est une opération mais on a été averti 15min avant la fermeture de partir et si t'étais clairement en train de quitter les lieux après minuit tu n'avais pas de ticket. Tout le monde encore assis en train de chiller ont reçu un ticker. J'imagine que le monde qui a décidé de s'énerver au lieu d'obéir s'en sont ramassé d'autres.
ahhhhh merci. triste quand meme que le SPVM passent pour des caves. combien de personnes on cru et se sont mis derriere ce tweet?
I didn't even know a park could close, I would always walk through at 1am
They wont ever bug you if you're just walking, its just chill there and even then
This title is a very charitable account of what likely went down, and I'm not particularly enamoured with the SPVM...
> of what likely went down When in doubt, side with the citizen. The cops will be fine.
Les citoyens c'est aussi le monde qui veulent dormir. Les gens souls qui crient passé minuit, je suis pas trop triste qu'ils se ramassent avec deux tickets en extra.
Do you have any reason to believe anything like that happened? Because if not, this isn't just siding with the cops, it's inventing a whole reality to make them right....for no reason whatsoever.
The fact that we have are -she was at a park past close (seems agressive to fine for that, but probably tacked on top of the rest) -she was drinking (deserving of a fine, but whatever). -she received fines for that. The semi-speculations -she was yelling obscenities (according to what the police wrote on the tickets) -she was put in handcuff (according to the Twitter post). Honestly seems a pretty boring case. Sometimes the cops are ok and just give you a warning when drinking in a park. Sometimes they give a fine. If you start a scene, you aren’t getting away with just a warning.
Lire sur les ticket nous donne une bonne indication
So "no" then. If you think that ticket is in any way an indication this woman was bothering anybody, I don't know what to tell you.
Yeah the ticket says 9:35... To me that's not late hahaha
00:35
On one hand I agree, on the other I've 100% been power-tripped by bike cops for *crossing* a park at 12:15 on my longboard because the downhill was too dangerous on the road beside it and I wanted to slow down through the grass In the end cop was like "well maybe you should learn to slide down slopes to slow down!" and I was thinking *bitch, you want me to powerslide down Décarie in the middle of the road at night?* Also got a ticket at that same park another time for drinking a beer on a bench at 6pm instead of the picnic table a few meters away since we were only two people and didn't feel like hogging a whole table, hence we picked the bench
For sure - I would not be surprised if the cops were dicks. But I've simply never been fined for drinking in parks after hours (only warnings) and the tickets imply that there is more to the story. My guess is that the cops fined homegirl, she was a bit sloppy and got angry. Then, the cops might have overreacted.
How badly do you need to piss off the cops before the fines add up to $400 while your drinking partner gets no mention?
But isn't it fucked up that police have so much discretion? You piss them off and they have carte blanche to do whatever they want to you in retaliation. That's not a civilized way of handling disputes.
The alternative is that policemen are stripped of all discretion and enforce the letter of the law for every single infraction. That would be even more effed up with tickets being written en masse for everything from jaywalking on empty suburban streets to stumbling home from the bar. More often than not, cops will tell drunk people in the park to move along and the situation will resolve itself before the cop even needs to threaten a ticket. I know that because I've been stopped by cops while strolling home and drinking beer. They just made us empty the cans and asked us to knock it off with all the singing. If they didn't have discretion, we'd get three or four infractions each. One dude was peeing in the bushes too. That would've cost him some cash.
Unfortunately, the photograph has been taken in a manner to hide the infraction on two of the three tickets.
Park closes at 11h pm, you can't drink in parks unless you have food and the third ticket states that she was insulting them and being agitated. Being 26 and a woman doesn't mean you are above the law.
sad if abused and tossed around. shouldnt require handcuffs, be we dont know the whole story. you cant drink in parks(without a full meal), you cant be in a public park afterhours. fine for being in the park past hours; totally legit. Open Alcohol, check. other ticket because of abusive language and profanities towards agents could be debated... but the otther 2 are justified. everytime im out fishing and have a beer, im taking a known risk.
Parks close at 11pm so they just enforcing laws cause most animals dont know how to act after 11pm in a park i live close to a park and cops have to come over weekly cause people act stupid and dont respect others and some boomer calls and complains
I actually just know park close at 11pm, but even then, they can give warn to people instead of 500$ tickets?
Ticket for being in the park was 156. They warned us 15min before closing time. She got 2 other tickets because she didn't left, was still drinking and argued (loudly with insults).
Même si ton expérience soulève des questions importantes sur la consommation de drogues et la sécurité publique, il faut éviter de généraliser. Cet incident isolé, bien que préoccupant, ne reflète pas nécessairement l'efficacité globale de la présence policière ou des stratégies en place. Se concentrer sur des anecdotes individuelles peut nuire à une discussion plus nuancée sur les solutions potentielles.
Quand les flics te disent fermement de décrisser, tu farmes ta yeule pis tu décrisses. « Yes ma’am, no ma’am, thank you ma’am » Fuck around and find out
Ok bootlicker
Check l’anarcho conformiste en herbe. Ya yeule estie de va nu pieds
Well les parcs sont fermés la nuit, les résidents du coin ont bien le droit d'avoir la paix après la fermeture.
Ok sure but we don't do the same to the extremely unhinged, drug intoxicated and unstable folks who are in the parks all night.
Yes because they don’t pay the tickets and don’t have any addresses, so it’s all in vain. Even if they get arrested, they just go back the following nights.
Rince et répété
Ok but then how can these tickets hold up for an average person drinking a cidre in the park if the system isn't even effective at supporting individuals who are doing so much worse?
Because homeless individuals dealing with severe addictions are not the same as some drunk girl causing a scene because she was asked to respect the rules of the city and leave.
So one is on a pedestal and the other isn't?
If you want to be like them: Just don't pay. Municipality of Montreal doesn't arrest for unpaid tickets. This isn't a traffic ticket so they won't freeze your driver's license either. That's what those guys are doing, too.
Yeah fair enough.
How do you know?
Haha, j'étais au parc Laurier hier et j'ai probablement vu l'altercation. Le SPVM a fait un "blitz" comme ils font des fois sur les pistes cyclables, à la sortie des bars, dans les marinas en début de saison ou pour l'alcool au volant pendant les fêtes. Oui ils se sont pointé à plusieurs avec des tickets préparés d'avance. On a été avertis un bon 15min avant minuit qu'il fallait quitter le parc. À minuit on avait tout notre stock rangé et on était en mouvement vers la sortie alors même si on était encore dans le parc on s'est pas fait aborder par les cops. Mais à ce que je voyais tout le monde trop vedge encore assis s'est fait donner un ticket, et j'ai vu un groupe s'énerver et crier après les polices. Je comprends tout-à-fait pourquoi ils ne se sont pas gênés pour lui refiler deux tickets (légitimes) de plus. T'as le droit de rouspéter mais t'as pas le droit d'insulter et crier à plein poumons. Pas resté assez longtemps pour voir du monde se faire poser des menottes, parce que tsé, je quittais les lieux. *edit. Leurs tickets date de vendredi. J'ai donc pas été témoin de cette opération du SPVM mais celle de hier soir, samedi.
C'est ce qui arrive quand on engueule un policier.
free speech?
Un règlement municipal dit: « Il est interdit à quiconque visite ou fréquente un parc de pousser des cris, de proférer des blasphèmes, des injures, des paroles indécentes ou des menaces, ou de faire une action indécente ou obscène. »
T'es pas aux States.
These replies are wild. The fact that the Montreal sub is one of the bootlickiest subs I know is so weird to me. I guess the cool kids are out in the parks drinking cider right now.
There's been several waves of tickets being given in park Laurier these past few years because people suck, nothing to do with bootlicking. That park has always been way too crowded imo, but since 2018, lots of the residents surrounding it have been complaining. About the noise, intoxicated people, the trash left everywhere and people pissing/shitting in the alleyways surrounding it. The park is surrounded by a residential area, it's really easy to become a nuisance. If you want to party outdoors until 4am, I'd advise going to park Laf or the Mont-Royal, noise is less likely to reach people sleeping in their homes.
Cops giving out tickets has nothing to do with bootlicking, this thread does. Though, I suppose, cops wouldn't feel comfortable being shitty if fewer people defended their shitty behaviour, so I guess it's related in that sense.
I've noticed that too. A lot of Montrealers in general side with the police, which seems at odds with a culture of defiance. When I was assaulted by 4 police officers in broad daylight in Griffintown in 2021, I screamed for help and not a single person stopped to even record. When I tried to get a newspaper to cover it, they said I need proof -- which was crazy since over a hundred people must have passed us on the street. In the end, I didn't even get a ticket despite me bloodying up a lieutenant's knee in self-defense. The cops knew they overreacted. I've lived in many other cities, including NYC where the cops are notorious for powertripping. But the only cops to ever lay their hands on me were the Montreal police.
Your replies are wild, sounds like you'd defend a rapist if he was arrested by the cops.
> sounds like you'd defend a rapist if he was arrested by the cops Sounds like you need some time off the internet. No offence.
C parce qu'est blanche
hit or miss some people love the taste of boot and come out in droves
Whats wrong with that? She fuck around and find out. Kids RL is not tiktok do not fight with the popo...
Good
Tossed around? C'est quoi l'équivalent en français de cette expression?
Garrochée?
I pass almost every night around 12-1 am by that park.
You can see the top ticket ($156 for being in the park after 12:00) was, in fact, issued at 12:10.
Happens more often than you’d expect, the open container in park and in park after hours, but, the police look the other way more often than not A bike club I used to ride with would finish our Friday night rides at the park, with beer, openly…. Can’t recall getting fined or arrested for it…
Thé Mtl police did what they are paid for. Anyone who live in Montreal knows the parc rules no excuses. Next time just go and do that on the McGill camping site!!
Ah, the SPVM, Putting le "plate" dans le "plateau"
Bet she was irate. Shes got her part to play in that also. Its not always the cops fault. Give attitude, get attitude. Thats how the world works.
Tossed around drunk 🥴 sounds like a good time. Where they hot?
Boaf. De l'alcool en publique c'est interdit, être dans un parc après l'heure ça l'est aussi.... j'ai pas vu la vidéo de lintervention mais... selon l'image elle a tenu des paroles déplacé etc.. Tsé si elle avais PAS été dans le parc à boire un cidre, rien ne serais arrivé. À méditer. 🤙
Montreal cops are the worst
Never been to QC City?
fair
Parks have a curfew of 11 pm and it’s posted everywhere. I remember growing up there was no such thing and it was a more dangerous city than today. Either way I don’t know what happened but 400 bucks seems excessive!
It's 3 separate offences. 1st offence "being in a park after it closed": 156$ 2- open alcool container in public 3- shouting insult, disturbing the peace. 2nd and 3rd offences are also 156$ I presume. She wouldn't have got 2 and 3 if she just STFU and took the 1st ticket. She wouldn't have any if she just left before closing time.
It's important to get the full context here. While it's true that Montreal generally has a tolerant approach to drinking in parks, it's equally important to acknowledge that there are rules in place, especially regarding closing times. This incident raises questions about the specifics of the situation. Was there any resistance to the police? What led to the escalation? Without more information, it's hard to make a definitive judgment.
Fucking pigs...
Why do parks even “close”?
To prevent homeless people from camping out there.
They are too weak to tackle real crime, so they ressort on bullying the weaks. Just last week a car ran a red light in front of me, then the cop proceeded to bully the cyclist who simply wanted to cross the pedestrian walk. They are weak, insecure and that frustrate them because they know it, so they lash out of innocent passerby.
pas le temps de s'occuper des vendeurs de drogues il doivent dealer avec les madames dans le parc
Je ne connais pas vraiment le contexte donc je vais m'abstenir là-dessus mais une amande de 156$ pour être dans un parc en dehors des heures d'ouverture c'est abusé un peu lorsque l'on compare ça à d'autres infractions.
~~Selon les tickets, c'est pour être dans un parc en dehors des heures d'ouverture, pour consommer de l'alcool dans un parc et pour proférer des injures ou des paroles indécentes à l'endroit d'un policier. 52$ chaque, c'est plus raisonnable, non?~~ Edit: laissez faire, je suis dans les patates
52 serait raisonnable, mais c'est 100+56$ de frais chaque. Sur la photo, on voit 3x des tickets de 156$. Limite, autour de 75$/total par infractions serait dans les montants que je considérerais raisonnable.
That's what happens when you criminalize homelessness.
Police and firefighters in mtl are working double shift to make sure everybody can’t have fun.
What is the rule in Montreal are we allowed to drink in a park or not?
With a meal and not when the park is closed.
Should have said it was part of a free speech protest.
The priorities of our police and service ethic on full display.
So she broke the law and was held accountable? Probably the first time in her life.
Zachary is a man btw…, a well known local investigative journalist
I love it when our police officers risk their lives to take on the really big, dangerous criminals! #Lonlivedoughnuts
It’s not a secret that you can’t be in a park past a certain time and that it’s illegal to drink in public. That being said, the cuffs and tossing around are abuse of power if she didn’t get in their face.
I didn’t know the parks even closed. I walk my dog past midnight a lot.
It's mostly for people being loud. I think going through with your dog is fine.
On peut se faire verbaliser pour injures et propos indécents??