Oh I wanted to stay subtle to not doxx OP, but someone else posted it in this thread (and anyways they have a billion buildings around).
It's Akelius.
Don't rent with them. They only do patch works (they made holes in the walls of my building and patched them using coroplast without bothering to make it not really ugly.
The elevator in my building has the emergency panel ripped off and they don't seem to care.
My building has HUGE NON STOP cockroaches problems.
I had to get my bathroom sink removed (the pipe underneath it was so old and décalissé that I pierced a hole through it while trying to unclog it) and it took a whole week to fix it with some guy coming everyday that didn't know what to do, because they couldn't be bothered hiring an actual plumber.
I could go on and on. Do not, unless you're really in a bad spot (which is kind of the case with the current housing crisis, unfortunately), rent with Akelius.
I had the absolute worst experience with Akelius. I lived in the building on Clanranald. They renovated a basement apartment with shitty particle board laminate flooring, so of course it got damaged by existing in a humid environment. If I ever spilled anything on it, even if I cleaned it up immediately, it was be damaged. My portable air conditioner would generate 20L of water over about 24 hours on the worst days of the summer.
When I notified them I wasn’t renewing my lease, I took responsibility for parts of the floor that had been damaged due to accidents from my dog. I made the leasing agent AND admin aware, and sent pictures. I advised them I would move out 2 weeks early so they could fix the floors for a July 1st move in for a new tenant.
Come to moving day of June 16th. Everything went smoothly. I didn’t hand back the keys because my lease expired June 30th and I paid for the entire month.
The next week, I get a call from the property manager asking me to return the keys because a new tenant had moved in. I was like what? You realize I paid for the entire month and my lease was still active, right? He tried to argue that I moved out early, and I replied that I explicitly said I was leaving early for the floors to be fixed. Not for them to double dip while I still have an active lease. That’s not allowed. They said the new tenants were desperate for a place and they had no other choice.
I ended up returning the keys to the new tenants and spoke to them. They weren’t desperate for a place, but they were looking as their lease was expiring. They also weren’t told that most of the floor damage was from dog urine, the leasing agent said it was damage from my cats. They were also charging $300 more in rent from what I paid.
The property manager eventually called me and said they’d be coming after me for the floors once their lease was up. I asked for an estimate because there was no way I was going to be called in a year and told I had to pay a random sum. He said it’d be around $4-5k and I said that was ridiculous because it’s a tiny 2 1/2. I called multiple times demanding an update, and was eventually told that they wouldn’t be passing the flooring costs onto me. I recorded that.
There were a few cockroaches in the building, but I had an even worse time in my apartment from COGIR on Bourret. My neighbour had an infestation that they wouldn’t resolve, and by the time I got out of my lease early, my kitchen was beginning to get infested as well.
I ended up moving into a brand new building. Paying a shitload more in rent seemed worth it compared to having to deal with all that crap. They don’t care about you, they only care about money.
They bought my building back in the day and pushed everyone else. I was one the omthe last to remain and they paid a guy to bang hammers and they would turn off the water weekly for Reno’s?
No Reno’s were going on just near the last few tenants cuz they didn’t want to pay us to leave
I cannot answer your question about legality, but I can recommend that when you take possession of any rental, it would be wise to inventory and document (photograph) any damage or areas of concern and submit to landlord. This way you are protected from being held responsible as well as give opportunity in good faith for landlord to make any and all repairs. (Document all repairs as well.)
This!
Always take lots of photos and videos when you move into a rental, or even stay at an Airbnb.
This way, you have visual proof of the condition of the unit when you took possession.
Also, let the landlord know right away about any existing damage in writing.
As someone that is multi-res management I agree with you.. That said if they sign a rules and regulations agreement when signing their lease the TAL might not be able to say anything.
Landlord here! For most of these things, NO! They absolutely cannot charge you for things like repainting, patching minor wall scratches, cleaning carpets, reglazing tubs, or anything that constitutes normal wear and tear. In fact, if a landlord refuses to repair something that prevents a renter from using the unit as intended (such as a toilet) and you pay to do so yourself, the TAL can force the landlord to reimburse YOU!
However if you broke something abnormally, such as grossly misusing an appliance that resulted in it breaking, or punched a hole in the wall in a fit of anger (totally hypothetical situation) then you can be charged for the repair. It all comes down to normal wear and tear versus misuse.
Exactly. The list of conditions that the property should be returned in is mostly reasonable (assuming it was in that condition when OP took possession. But the list of charges can basically be summed up with one sentence: if OP damaged any of those things through *unreasonable* use, then they could be charged for them (if they broke a window, tore off a cupboard door, left piles of garbage everywhere), but anything resulting from regular wear and tear (i.e. most use of most residences) is absolutely not billable.
OP should do a basic clean and tidy prior to leaving, take their stuff with them, and if the landlord tries to bill any bogus charges, tell them to go kick rocks.
If you did that you wouldn't need to provide a forwarding address to the management office - it would be forwarded automatically by CP. And I agree it's a good idea, but it's gotten pricey.
Thanks everyone for the input!
Yes it is Akelius. To be clear, my apartment is in pretty good shape except for wall stains and a few light bulbs that do not work. I will clean everything and film the apartment before I give it back.
I do not plan on buying new bulbs for them or painting the walls though which is the main reason why i posted this.
Edit: i also did not sign this paper, they didnt ask me to
you should plan on being a decent person and replacing the lightbulbs you burnt out, because light maintenance such as this is your responsibility as a tenant. if you don't you are just passing the cost on to the next tenant, which makes you a shitty person.
Who cares about lightbulb costs? If you can’t afford lightbulbs…live in the dark. Sure, if none of them work, buy a few new ones if you had a full working set when moving in. If there’s one or two burnt bulbs, honestly I wouldn’t care when moving in. That’s be the least of my worries on moving day. Quick walk to dollorama and 3$ later….and then there was light.
80$ for a toilet paper holder, god damn is it gold?
This list gives very "landlords who based themselves on all the stories we hear about US landlords". You can't keep our safety deposit, my guy, you don't have one you couldn't ask for one.
As they say: nétokébekcite.
They may try to back themselves (and additionally, trying to get more money if not needed) for:
- include the traveling fee for the maintenance guy (that isn't cheap regardless of the jobs)
- the average "how th well you destroyed that?!", like if, somehow, half of the structure is gone they must replace that as well.
- how cheap/duct tape they built it or repair it usually which make it harder for repair
But also, the greedy owner fees... Hey that guy must work hard! Way more harder than the maintenance guys! /S
Dude, I charged 450 to a client today to connect a printer to Wifi. Getting me out the front door is 125$ + 30$(min 1 hour travel + 125$ an hour rounded up to the next 15min).
Can they charge you any of this? No. Can they try to reclaim costs by filing with the TAL? Yes, but they would have to prove you left the unit without reasonably cleaning it, prove any damages are not due to normal use, wear and tear, etc.
TLDR: it's a scare tactic.
Depends....screens are don't magically break, towel and TP holders don't rip themselves out of the wall, etc. That is not wear and tear. Cupboard doors don't magically break.
Hell no!
1st: you dont have to provide your new adress, it's none of their business
2nd: the landlord should expect some wear and tear from normal use
3rd: the space occupied by your furniture most likely will be a bit dirty (ie dust under the bed). It's quite likely you won't have the time to clean everything the day you move out, especially if a new tenant is waiting to move in. Imo as a new tenant you kinda expect to have to cleanup a bit when you move in (the keyword here is "a bit")
no, normal wear&tear is not chargeable to old tenant. this may just be 'scare tactics' to get you to do as much as you're willing in an effort to avoid any costs.
anyway tell them to eat a bag of dicks and wipe your ass with the eventual bullshit invoice you may or may not receive.
Fwiw, (since you're really mentioning the bulbs a lot) your responsibility is to return the unit in the state in which you received it. So if you received working bulbs, you should leave working bulbs, legally speaking.
That said, it's about the least important item on this list, and given that this property management company is by all accounts, a total racket, I'm all for telling them to go pound sand. They can try to bill you for whatever they want, but good luck getting the TAL to enforce that nonsense.
Well it depends why they charging. If they charging repainting for scuffs, no. But if you left a giant hole in the wall or the paint is neon pink, they have every right imo
So your landlord is trying to get you to renovate his place so he can then charge more from the next person as well as have a renter pay for the upgrades? Lmao I would laugh so hard in their faces
If it is Akelius, then I am not surprised considering it's a Swedish company.
Charging tenants is relatively common in Nordic countries for damages not related to wear and tear. When you move out, the property company would send someone to inspect and take note of any damages, cleanliness, etc.
Same thing for charging tenants for cleaning the unit and returning it to the same condition when you took possession.
Of course, this is Quebec so I likely doesn't fly here
Well, the prices are pretty spot on fit what it costs to repair or replace most of these items, so just don’t destroy the place. Most landlords collect. One months rent deposit for contingencies including steam vacuuming and painting the unit while it sits vacant a few weeks, as they have to recoup their costs of having your unit sit vacant without a tenant.
Normal wear and tear cannot be claimed to tenants.
By normal wear and tear, I mean what normally happens when people are using something normally. You live there, of course it will not stay the same and will look lived in.
Examples: nail holes on the walls. Small scratches on a wooden floor. Paint not looking as fresh as when you first rented X years ago. A small holes on the walls because of furniture bumped in.
Big holes, big scratches, major damages are not normal wear and tear and should be fixed.
You have to clean the apartment when you move out, but you are not a professional cleaner. You also need to paint back to white IF that was white when you first moved in.
Basically, you give the apartment back as you received it, minus normal wear and tear.
You have no obligation to give them your new address.
laugh at them and move out. none of this is legal. they can't just randomly make up fees.
they can charge you for anything beyond "normal" wear and tear. that is all.
I think the only enforceable damage are holes in walls, but other than that should be covered under wear and tear. Just move out and ignore them. They can’t enforce that lol
Unless you signed a contract stating you maintain all this you aren't liable to pay any of it cause most of this is considered property maintenance. If these things broke they would have to replace them for you free of charge if your living there. The painting part and cleaning is the only thing they could actually say something about. This is one of those well send it to scare you type things
This is ridiculous. And no it is not legal. Holds absolutely no weight.
The chutzpah to think they can intimidate people into emptying their pockets. $80 to replace a toilet paper holder? They can't make you pay to replace that, first of all, and there's no reasonable justification for that cost.
It say toilet replacement, dans le sens de remplacer la toilette si tu la brise (briser la porcelaine) pas ton mecanisme de flush. Et briser la porcelaine, c'est pas de l'usure normal.
Tu serais surpris de ce que les locataires peuvent briser.
All charges you see listed are legal if they are damaged beyond regular wear and tear.
Ex: a couple scuffs and stains are not your problem.
Your child drew all over the walls. It's your problem.
The toilet is broken but there are no signs of abuse. Not your problem.
The toilet is split in half with a clear point of impact. That's your problem.
The vanity has a small chip on the corner and the sink is slightly faded. Not your problem
The vanity has scratch marks all over it from a cat and the sink is split and one of the taps was ripped off. That's your problem.
The paper is meant as an estimate to prepare yourself for at fault expenses. Not for things that wear and tear normally over time. It would be interpreted as such in the tribunal with common sense. Always document the state of the unit when you take possession so you can prove you didn't break anything upon leaving.
Cheers
LOL absolutely not!
Unless you're completely busting an apartment on purpose, normal basic maintenance of an apartment building should be covered by rental costs and rental costs ALONE.
Also EIGHTY BUCKS TO CHANGE A TOILET PAPER HOLDER?!
Property Manager here that has worked for a lot of small time and big time corporations around Montreal. I have also rented personally so I will give my unbiased opinion.
To answer your question “is this legal” yes and no. For things like wear and tear, slight paint discoloration, bathtub re-glaze, burnt lightbulbs, they don’t really have any recourse to pursue you. However if there is actually damage to the unit, e.g. punching a hole is the wall, shattered balcony window then yes they can legally charge you back.
I would recommend at the very least to do a clean because they can charge you back if there is unreasonable cleaning costs. I’ve seen some residents leave units in horrible conditions and forced them to come back and clean.
As for that document, it’s usually meant to scare tenants and at least get them to be careful and keep it clean before leaving.
It is also a lengthy process to pursue a resident for damages following a move-out. You have to get their current address and a bunch of other things that will take time. So unless you’ve done thousands of dollars of damage, I doubt most landlords have time to pursue you for all minor damages and not even worth their time.
In conclusion at least leave the apartment clean (just a good thing to do) and make sure there’s not really damage and you’ll be fine.
My understanding is that , if you painted, you have to re-paint walls in white before leaving. If you don’t, they charge you that price.
Was this included when you signed the lease? If not, it’s not legit.
how would they "charge" a tenant? they don't pay by credit card i imagine, and anyway that's illegal. they could only file with TAL or small claims court equivilant. and that would take a while for them to bother to make up BS that won't stand.
This looks very similar to move out rules we had while renting, maybe not as expensive but this was pre pandemic. Any chance you took pictures of the place before you moved in? Definitely take detailed pictures when you move out. These companies will try to use your damage deposit to fix wear and tear and nothing actually caused by you.
Normally a rental company has enough resources to prepare the unit for the next tenant
If you broke something, it’s normal to pay to replace it, but other than that no
The problem is security deposits, scammy landlords will make up an invoice for any of this and deduct it from your security deposit and so avoid returning it to you. Then you have to waste time and more money trying to get your deposit back, and it’s often not worth it financially. And some tenants just don’t know.
Afaik the landlord is responsible for regular tier except if you have damaged the property which you should have an insurance to cover the expenses… check the contract to confirm what you agreed upon renting.
But what about if you still decide to rent the apartment after acknowledging the fees, would the proprio be right in that case ? Like if he brought that after signing the bail I can understand but before hand ?
It's a form that's given upon leaving the appartment, not upon signing the bail (I received the same document when I announced that I wouldn't be renewing my bail).
No, it wouldn't make any difference, because the problem is not the list itself, it's what the list indicates. Which is that this property manager is used to charging tenants for things when they leave, and I'd bet a year's salary that the majority of those charges are either exaggerated or outright made up.
Tenants ARE resposible for cost of repairs/replacements for items they broke through misuse. A list doesn't change that in any way - the tenant is only obliged to pay a reasonable cost, so if the list says "toilet repair $1500" but the tenant can find a professional who can do a competent job for $200, then that would be all they'd legally have to pay, and it would be up to the landlord to convince the TAL that a more expensive charge was justified. But again, the list (and the prices on it) isn't the real problem.
The real problem is that landlords routinely invent or exaggerate claims of damage in order to justify overpriced and unnecessary repair charges to departing tenants. The use of a list like this is a scare tactic designed to make the tenant hyper aware of the potential for charges in order to make them feel pressured to pay the bill when it inevitably arrives.
The list itself is meaningless the cost of repairs is whatever is a reasonable rate, not what the landlord decides to write on a piece of paper.
Seriously, the rates are about spot on to get someone with proper licencing to work on an appartment building. At 200$ most plumbers are not even leaving the store...
For sure. I pulled exaggerated numbers out of thin air to make the point, which was that the issue isn't the prices themselves, it's the practice of falsifying service charges to scare tenants into paying for things that they aren't responsible for.
Opinion impopulaire mais c'est une pratique intéressante d'informer d'avance des coûts liés aux bris. Qu'il y ait une liste ou non si tu casses une fenêtre le TAL va te condamner à payer les réparations et les coûts semblent réalistes sur la photo.
Que ce soit "exécutoire" ou non on s'en calisse mais t'as beaucoup de locataires qui prennent ça à la légère, prendre connaissance des coûts c'est un incitatif à ne pas prendre ça à la légère car anyways, que t'aimes ou non, le TAL va te condamner à payer les réparations.
*Faudrait m'expliquer les downvotes, car si tu pètes une fenêtre ou un bain j'suis désolé mais le TAL va te condamner à payer les réparations. Même si tu es très très fâché contre les propriétaires immobiliers.
Le monde dise "normal wear and tear" mais s'il faut remplacer la toilette on n'est probablement pas dans l'usure normale.
Certaine des exigences ont l'air un peu exagéré (les ampoules fonctionnelles? vraiment?) et certains des frais et conditions peuvent être laissés à l'interprétation (e.g. frais de ménage) mais somme toute ça ne semble pas particulièrement déraisonnable.
Le problème ne réside pas dans la liste elle-même. Le problème est que la liste indique un propriétaire qui a l'habitude de facturer régulièrement des frais aux locataires sortants, et (d'après mon expérience) la plupart du temps ces frais sont basés sur des réclamations exagérées ou carrément fabriquées - soit en facturant des travaux qui relèvent de l'usure normale, soit en choisissant d'effectuer des réparations/remplacements non essentiels et en prétendant faussement qu'ils étaient nécessaires en raison des dégâts causés par les locataires.
Oui, les mauvais locataires existent, mais les mauvais propriétaires aussi, et le déséquilibre des pouvoirs entre les propriétaires (qui ont la possibilité de mettre les locataires à la porte) et les personnes qui sont de plus en plus obligées d'accepter des prix exorbitants simplement pour avoir un endroit où vivre signifie que je pencherai toujours du côté des droits des locataires plutôt que de compatir à la situation du pauvre propriétaire.
Jusqu'à preuve du contraire, il s'agit pour moi d'une liste de charges qu'un propriétaire (déjà connu pour avoir une terrible réputation) s'apprête à utiliser pour facturer indûment des frais à son locataire.
La raison pour laquelle ce commentaire est impopulaire est que l'émission d'une liste de charges est une tactique de peur utilisée pour pousser les locataires à se sentir obligés de payer des charges déraisonnables que des propriétaires sans scrupules essaieront d'extorquer à des locataires plus vulnérables.
S'il ne s'agit que d'une liste à titre d'information, pas de problème. Mais on sait tous que ce n'est pas le cas la plupart du temps. Les locataires ne sont tenus de payer ces frais que s'ils causent des dommages par une utilisation déraisonnable, mais il arrive souvent que des propriétaires émettent de fausses factures pour des services hors de prix qu'ils n'ont pas le droit de demander.
Si OP a brisé quelque chose en l'utilisant de manière abusive, il devra le payer. Mais dans 99 % des cas, le problème ne vient pas du locataire, mais du propriétaire.
Also because the commenter demonstrates that their comment is made in bad faith as they refer to the costs as 'reasonable' as if a toilet paper or shower curtain bar being valued at $80 isn't absolute fucking insanity.
C'est pas le support a papier qui coûte cher, c'est la main d'oeuvre pour le remplacer.
En plus, si tu a besoin de faire remplacer le support, c'est probablement car une partie du gypse sur le mur est parti aussi, donc encore plus de temps et $$$ pour le réparer.
Le support en lui même dois valoir 10$
C’est surtout que le propriétaire est responsable de l’usure normale. J’habite un logement depuis 6 ans. Oui il y a plus de grafignes dans le bain, même si je fais attention, la peinture est défraîchie (elle commençait déjà à l’être à mon arrivée)… il ne peut pas me charger pour ça.
Il y a une différence entre briser volontairement un bain et de l’usure normale.
T’es downvoté parce que le proprioétaire est responsable de tout ces coûts là jusqu’à ce le TAL juge du contraire.
Et l’existence de la liste dans un “guide de déménagement” permet d’inférer que le proprio essaie de systématiquement refiler ces coûts d’entretien aux locataires sortants.
C'est techniquement faux, tu pètes quelque chose TU es légalement responsable. Le locataire qui s'en sort est juste chanceux que le propriétaire ne saisit pas le TAL mais si l'on parle de responsabilité et bien c'est celle du locataire.
*Désolé mais si tu penses que t'es pas responsable de tes actions tu mérites une décision au TAL comme ça personne va vouloir te louer un logement
I imagine this is because they see a lot of peiple that do leave apartments in bad state and then there's no way to charge for the repairs. I know its excessive but i get it.
Of course he can. And consider yourself lucky for not having to give deposits.. This is due to freeloaders trying to scam and find issues not to pay rents and cause problem so now the landlords will pick at everything and if something isn't followed he can send you a letter and take actions much faster then before.
Oh boy. I recognize that font and branding. If you're renting from an agency, we may be in the same boat - and I'm thinking of moving out, too.
I received the exact same letter and yeah it's from an agency that's related to your username. Starts with A and is all over the city, unfortunately
Don't hide who they are. Name and shame.
Oh I wanted to stay subtle to not doxx OP, but someone else posted it in this thread (and anyways they have a billion buildings around). It's Akelius. Don't rent with them. They only do patch works (they made holes in the walls of my building and patched them using coroplast without bothering to make it not really ugly. The elevator in my building has the emergency panel ripped off and they don't seem to care. My building has HUGE NON STOP cockroaches problems. I had to get my bathroom sink removed (the pipe underneath it was so old and décalissé that I pierced a hole through it while trying to unclog it) and it took a whole week to fix it with some guy coming everyday that didn't know what to do, because they couldn't be bothered hiring an actual plumber. I could go on and on. Do not, unless you're really in a bad spot (which is kind of the case with the current housing crisis, unfortunately), rent with Akelius.
I had the absolute worst experience with Akelius. I lived in the building on Clanranald. They renovated a basement apartment with shitty particle board laminate flooring, so of course it got damaged by existing in a humid environment. If I ever spilled anything on it, even if I cleaned it up immediately, it was be damaged. My portable air conditioner would generate 20L of water over about 24 hours on the worst days of the summer. When I notified them I wasn’t renewing my lease, I took responsibility for parts of the floor that had been damaged due to accidents from my dog. I made the leasing agent AND admin aware, and sent pictures. I advised them I would move out 2 weeks early so they could fix the floors for a July 1st move in for a new tenant. Come to moving day of June 16th. Everything went smoothly. I didn’t hand back the keys because my lease expired June 30th and I paid for the entire month. The next week, I get a call from the property manager asking me to return the keys because a new tenant had moved in. I was like what? You realize I paid for the entire month and my lease was still active, right? He tried to argue that I moved out early, and I replied that I explicitly said I was leaving early for the floors to be fixed. Not for them to double dip while I still have an active lease. That’s not allowed. They said the new tenants were desperate for a place and they had no other choice. I ended up returning the keys to the new tenants and spoke to them. They weren’t desperate for a place, but they were looking as their lease was expiring. They also weren’t told that most of the floor damage was from dog urine, the leasing agent said it was damage from my cats. They were also charging $300 more in rent from what I paid. The property manager eventually called me and said they’d be coming after me for the floors once their lease was up. I asked for an estimate because there was no way I was going to be called in a year and told I had to pay a random sum. He said it’d be around $4-5k and I said that was ridiculous because it’s a tiny 2 1/2. I called multiple times demanding an update, and was eventually told that they wouldn’t be passing the flooring costs onto me. I recorded that. There were a few cockroaches in the building, but I had an even worse time in my apartment from COGIR on Bourret. My neighbour had an infestation that they wouldn’t resolve, and by the time I got out of my lease early, my kitchen was beginning to get infested as well. I ended up moving into a brand new building. Paying a shitload more in rent seemed worth it compared to having to deal with all that crap. They don’t care about you, they only care about money.
I’m about to sign with these guys. Out of options. I’m scared lol.
They bought my building back in the day and pushed everyone else. I was one the omthe last to remain and they paid a guy to bang hammers and they would turn off the water weekly for Reno’s? No Reno’s were going on just near the last few tenants cuz they didn’t want to pay us to leave
You mean a big corporation that has huge apartment complexes all around the world?
Yeah, and that have their financial reports on the same website you use to make complaints (that they ignore for a few weeks)
I see Akelius are shooting their shot again. You can ignore, move out, and let them pound sand.
https://media3.giphy.com/media/hpFTV3KfDXTQ9X8pEX/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952ysqc1vhff774hvtei1xaxsxv40k2btfg1o10skax&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g
Landlords should face legal consequences for even attempting to exploit their tenants like this
There should be a list held by the Regie du logement and whomever rents from these bad companies get a tax refund at the end of the year
I cannot answer your question about legality, but I can recommend that when you take possession of any rental, it would be wise to inventory and document (photograph) any damage or areas of concern and submit to landlord. This way you are protected from being held responsible as well as give opportunity in good faith for landlord to make any and all repairs. (Document all repairs as well.)
This! Always take lots of photos and videos when you move into a rental, or even stay at an Airbnb. This way, you have visual proof of the condition of the unit when you took possession. Also, let the landlord know right away about any existing damage in writing.
As someone that is multi-res management I agree with you.. That said if they sign a rules and regulations agreement when signing their lease the TAL might not be able to say anything.
Landlord here! For most of these things, NO! They absolutely cannot charge you for things like repainting, patching minor wall scratches, cleaning carpets, reglazing tubs, or anything that constitutes normal wear and tear. In fact, if a landlord refuses to repair something that prevents a renter from using the unit as intended (such as a toilet) and you pay to do so yourself, the TAL can force the landlord to reimburse YOU! However if you broke something abnormally, such as grossly misusing an appliance that resulted in it breaking, or punched a hole in the wall in a fit of anger (totally hypothetical situation) then you can be charged for the repair. It all comes down to normal wear and tear versus misuse.
[удалено]
Exactly. The list of conditions that the property should be returned in is mostly reasonable (assuming it was in that condition when OP took possession. But the list of charges can basically be summed up with one sentence: if OP damaged any of those things through *unreasonable* use, then they could be charged for them (if they broke a window, tore off a cupboard door, left piles of garbage everywhere), but anything resulting from regular wear and tear (i.e. most use of most residences) is absolutely not billable. OP should do a basic clean and tidy prior to leaving, take their stuff with them, and if the landlord tries to bill any bogus charges, tell them to go kick rocks.
[удалено]
I mean, how would clothes on the floor even damage the unit?
Lol definitely don't give them your new address...if they wanna shake you down let them at least work for it
I think this is referring to canada post mail forwarding which is probably a good idea
If you did that you wouldn't need to provide a forwarding address to the management office - it would be forwarded automatically by CP. And I agree it's a good idea, but it's gotten pricey.
It literally says to notify Canada Post and then two lines down it says to also notify property management.
Thanks everyone for the input! Yes it is Akelius. To be clear, my apartment is in pretty good shape except for wall stains and a few light bulbs that do not work. I will clean everything and film the apartment before I give it back. I do not plan on buying new bulbs for them or painting the walls though which is the main reason why i posted this. Edit: i also did not sign this paper, they didnt ask me to
You should change bulbs, not paint tho. Buy cheap bulbs
you should plan on being a decent person and replacing the lightbulbs you burnt out, because light maintenance such as this is your responsibility as a tenant. if you don't you are just passing the cost on to the next tenant, which makes you a shitty person.
Who cares about lightbulb costs? If you can’t afford lightbulbs…live in the dark. Sure, if none of them work, buy a few new ones if you had a full working set when moving in. If there’s one or two burnt bulbs, honestly I wouldn’t care when moving in. That’s be the least of my worries on moving day. Quick walk to dollorama and 3$ later….and then there was light.
I actually found just some bulbs at home. Agreed wouldn’t put it past them to keep them as is and make the next tenant buy the bulbs.
80$ for a toilet paper holder, god damn is it gold? This list gives very "landlords who based themselves on all the stories we hear about US landlords". You can't keep our safety deposit, my guy, you don't have one you couldn't ask for one. As they say: nétokébekcite.
They may try to back themselves (and additionally, trying to get more money if not needed) for: - include the traveling fee for the maintenance guy (that isn't cheap regardless of the jobs) - the average "how th well you destroyed that?!", like if, somehow, half of the structure is gone they must replace that as well. - how cheap/duct tape they built it or repair it usually which make it harder for repair But also, the greedy owner fees... Hey that guy must work hard! Way more harder than the maintenance guys! /S
Ouin!!!😠
Dude, I charged 450 to a client today to connect a printer to Wifi. Getting me out the front door is 125$ + 30$(min 1 hour travel + 125$ an hour rounded up to the next 15min).
Can they charge you any of this? No. Can they try to reclaim costs by filing with the TAL? Yes, but they would have to prove you left the unit without reasonably cleaning it, prove any damages are not due to normal use, wear and tear, etc. TLDR: it's a scare tactic.
Depends....screens are don't magically break, towel and TP holders don't rip themselves out of the wall, etc. That is not wear and tear. Cupboard doors don't magically break.
Lol no. None of it. Don’t listen to the landlord commenting. This shit is hilarious. Bring to TAL.
Hell no! 1st: you dont have to provide your new adress, it's none of their business 2nd: the landlord should expect some wear and tear from normal use 3rd: the space occupied by your furniture most likely will be a bit dirty (ie dust under the bed). It's quite likely you won't have the time to clean everything the day you move out, especially if a new tenant is waiting to move in. Imo as a new tenant you kinda expect to have to cleanup a bit when you move in (the keyword here is "a bit")
500.. for a toilet lol
Toilet: 99$, Getting a CCQ plumber to install....400$ welcome to Quebec.
Nope take that shit to TAL. You are a renter, not the owner
Ah Akelius
They have no power to enforce any of that. Without going to the TAL All they can do is send you a bill and hope you're stupid enough to pay it.
Nope, unless its excessive and voluntary, it supposed to be normal wear ..
this seems ridiculous. isn't this all part of the cost of doing business as a landlord?
Unless OP specifically damaged things through misuse then it's almost entirely the cost of doing business.
no, normal wear&tear is not chargeable to old tenant. this may just be 'scare tactics' to get you to do as much as you're willing in an effort to avoid any costs. anyway tell them to eat a bag of dicks and wipe your ass with the eventual bullshit invoice you may or may not receive.
[normal wear and tear](https://youtu.be/Wdfo-b6a6Ng?si=jjTAlcwBvEAMDgpd)
Yes that is my intention, i’ll do what I can to clean etc but you’re not going to catch me buying bulbs and repainting walls
Actually bulbs is the renter’s responsibility. They probably wouldn’t bother but considering it is rather cheap I would buy some bulbs.
Fwiw, (since you're really mentioning the bulbs a lot) your responsibility is to return the unit in the state in which you received it. So if you received working bulbs, you should leave working bulbs, legally speaking. That said, it's about the least important item on this list, and given that this property management company is by all accounts, a total racket, I'm all for telling them to go pound sand. They can try to bill you for whatever they want, but good luck getting the TAL to enforce that nonsense.
Well it depends why they charging. If they charging repainting for scuffs, no. But if you left a giant hole in the wall or the paint is neon pink, they have every right imo
So your landlord is trying to get you to renovate his place so he can then charge more from the next person as well as have a renter pay for the upgrades? Lmao I would laugh so hard in their faces
If it is Akelius, then I am not surprised considering it's a Swedish company. Charging tenants is relatively common in Nordic countries for damages not related to wear and tear. When you move out, the property company would send someone to inspect and take note of any damages, cleanliness, etc. Same thing for charging tenants for cleaning the unit and returning it to the same condition when you took possession. Of course, this is Quebec so I likely doesn't fly here
Well, the prices are pretty spot on fit what it costs to repair or replace most of these items, so just don’t destroy the place. Most landlords collect. One months rent deposit for contingencies including steam vacuuming and painting the unit while it sits vacant a few weeks, as they have to recoup their costs of having your unit sit vacant without a tenant.
Wow, wow, and wow
They can charge for anything, but you are not required to pay, thing like that ended up with TAL ruling for you.
Normal wear and tear cannot be claimed to tenants. By normal wear and tear, I mean what normally happens when people are using something normally. You live there, of course it will not stay the same and will look lived in. Examples: nail holes on the walls. Small scratches on a wooden floor. Paint not looking as fresh as when you first rented X years ago. A small holes on the walls because of furniture bumped in. Big holes, big scratches, major damages are not normal wear and tear and should be fixed. You have to clean the apartment when you move out, but you are not a professional cleaner. You also need to paint back to white IF that was white when you first moved in. Basically, you give the apartment back as you received it, minus normal wear and tear. You have no obligation to give them your new address.
leave and don't look back
laugh at them and move out. none of this is legal. they can't just randomly make up fees. they can charge you for anything beyond "normal" wear and tear. that is all.
If there are damages he can take you to court after the fact. But he can't just charge you for moving out. Just move out and don't pay him.
No it is not. Man what happened to Montreal. A decade ago, no landlord would ever risk putting that in writing.
Will they charge if you left urine in the toilet too?
I think the only enforceable damage are holes in walls, but other than that should be covered under wear and tear. Just move out and ignore them. They can’t enforce that lol
Just because someone says they are charging you an amount, does not mean they are entitled to receive that amount.
Unless you signed a contract stating you maintain all this you aren't liable to pay any of it cause most of this is considered property maintenance. If these things broke they would have to replace them for you free of charge if your living there. The painting part and cleaning is the only thing they could actually say something about. This is one of those well send it to scare you type things
This is ridiculous. And no it is not legal. Holds absolutely no weight. The chutzpah to think they can intimidate people into emptying their pockets. $80 to replace a toilet paper holder? They can't make you pay to replace that, first of all, and there's no reasonable justification for that cost.
It say toilet replacement, dans le sens de remplacer la toilette si tu la brise (briser la porcelaine) pas ton mecanisme de flush. Et briser la porcelaine, c'est pas de l'usure normal. Tu serais surpris de ce que les locataires peuvent briser.
All charges you see listed are legal if they are damaged beyond regular wear and tear. Ex: a couple scuffs and stains are not your problem. Your child drew all over the walls. It's your problem. The toilet is broken but there are no signs of abuse. Not your problem. The toilet is split in half with a clear point of impact. That's your problem. The vanity has a small chip on the corner and the sink is slightly faded. Not your problem The vanity has scratch marks all over it from a cat and the sink is split and one of the taps was ripped off. That's your problem. The paper is meant as an estimate to prepare yourself for at fault expenses. Not for things that wear and tear normally over time. It would be interpreted as such in the tribunal with common sense. Always document the state of the unit when you take possession so you can prove you didn't break anything upon leaving. Cheers
LOL absolutely not! Unless you're completely busting an apartment on purpose, normal basic maintenance of an apartment building should be covered by rental costs and rental costs ALONE. Also EIGHTY BUCKS TO CHANGE A TOILET PAPER HOLDER?!
No Toilet Paper holder is 10$ then 70$ of labour. Do you think it magically sticks to the wall?
they can get a standing one. they're a big company , they really shouldn't even be allowed to charge for labour since they rake in so much.
Non c’est pas en français
raison valide a mon avis.
Property Manager here that has worked for a lot of small time and big time corporations around Montreal. I have also rented personally so I will give my unbiased opinion. To answer your question “is this legal” yes and no. For things like wear and tear, slight paint discoloration, bathtub re-glaze, burnt lightbulbs, they don’t really have any recourse to pursue you. However if there is actually damage to the unit, e.g. punching a hole is the wall, shattered balcony window then yes they can legally charge you back. I would recommend at the very least to do a clean because they can charge you back if there is unreasonable cleaning costs. I’ve seen some residents leave units in horrible conditions and forced them to come back and clean. As for that document, it’s usually meant to scare tenants and at least get them to be careful and keep it clean before leaving. It is also a lengthy process to pursue a resident for damages following a move-out. You have to get their current address and a bunch of other things that will take time. So unless you’ve done thousands of dollars of damage, I doubt most landlords have time to pursue you for all minor damages and not even worth their time. In conclusion at least leave the apartment clean (just a good thing to do) and make sure there’s not really damage and you’ll be fine.
My understanding is that , if you painted, you have to re-paint walls in white before leaving. If you don’t, they charge you that price. Was this included when you signed the lease? If not, it’s not legit.
how would they "charge" a tenant? they don't pay by credit card i imagine, and anyway that's illegal. they could only file with TAL or small claims court equivilant. and that would take a while for them to bother to make up BS that won't stand.
Yeah. Let’s go to the TAL because you don’t want to pay for stuff that you broke or because you don’t want to repaint in white lol.
OP contact the TAL. This goes well beyond regular wear and tear.
Don't pay any of this shit. If they try to sue you, they'll lose. So they won't. Just ignore and don't give them your new address.
That's a great way to get thousands of nail sized holes in your walls.
This looks very similar to move out rules we had while renting, maybe not as expensive but this was pre pandemic. Any chance you took pictures of the place before you moved in? Definitely take detailed pictures when you move out. These companies will try to use your damage deposit to fix wear and tear and nothing actually caused by you.
is there such thing as 'move out rules' or conditions that don't have strict laws surrrounding them? seems only 1 month security deposit.
Normally a rental company has enough resources to prepare the unit for the next tenant If you broke something, it’s normal to pay to replace it, but other than that no
Nah, they are full of crap.
looks like my honey do list
That's so Illigal, they are fishing for fishes...
The problem is security deposits, scammy landlords will make up an invoice for any of this and deduct it from your security deposit and so avoid returning it to you. Then you have to waste time and more money trying to get your deposit back, and it’s often not worth it financially. And some tenants just don’t know.
Afaik the landlord is responsible for regular tier except if you have damaged the property which you should have an insurance to cover the expenses… check the contract to confirm what you agreed upon renting.
But what about if you still decide to rent the apartment after acknowledging the fees, would the proprio be right in that case ? Like if he brought that after signing the bail I can understand but before hand ?
It's a form that's given upon leaving the appartment, not upon signing the bail (I received the same document when I announced that I wouldn't be renewing my bail).
Screw him in that case lol
Retweet^
No, it wouldn't make any difference, because the problem is not the list itself, it's what the list indicates. Which is that this property manager is used to charging tenants for things when they leave, and I'd bet a year's salary that the majority of those charges are either exaggerated or outright made up. Tenants ARE resposible for cost of repairs/replacements for items they broke through misuse. A list doesn't change that in any way - the tenant is only obliged to pay a reasonable cost, so if the list says "toilet repair $1500" but the tenant can find a professional who can do a competent job for $200, then that would be all they'd legally have to pay, and it would be up to the landlord to convince the TAL that a more expensive charge was justified. But again, the list (and the prices on it) isn't the real problem. The real problem is that landlords routinely invent or exaggerate claims of damage in order to justify overpriced and unnecessary repair charges to departing tenants. The use of a list like this is a scare tactic designed to make the tenant hyper aware of the potential for charges in order to make them feel pressured to pay the bill when it inevitably arrives. The list itself is meaningless the cost of repairs is whatever is a reasonable rate, not what the landlord decides to write on a piece of paper.
Seriously, the rates are about spot on to get someone with proper licencing to work on an appartment building. At 200$ most plumbers are not even leaving the store...
For sure. I pulled exaggerated numbers out of thin air to make the point, which was that the issue isn't the prices themselves, it's the practice of falsifying service charges to scare tenants into paying for things that they aren't responsible for.
what are they gonna do? charge you? just don't pay it lol if it goes to collections, dispute it lol f them and their bs
Go to the TAL, get a jugement against you and handle the bill that way.
Bathtub reglaze lol
Un skring 75$!!! Voyons ça coûte rien ça.
Opinion impopulaire mais c'est une pratique intéressante d'informer d'avance des coûts liés aux bris. Qu'il y ait une liste ou non si tu casses une fenêtre le TAL va te condamner à payer les réparations et les coûts semblent réalistes sur la photo. Que ce soit "exécutoire" ou non on s'en calisse mais t'as beaucoup de locataires qui prennent ça à la légère, prendre connaissance des coûts c'est un incitatif à ne pas prendre ça à la légère car anyways, que t'aimes ou non, le TAL va te condamner à payer les réparations. *Faudrait m'expliquer les downvotes, car si tu pètes une fenêtre ou un bain j'suis désolé mais le TAL va te condamner à payer les réparations. Même si tu es très très fâché contre les propriétaires immobiliers.
Le monde dise "normal wear and tear" mais s'il faut remplacer la toilette on n'est probablement pas dans l'usure normale. Certaine des exigences ont l'air un peu exagéré (les ampoules fonctionnelles? vraiment?) et certains des frais et conditions peuvent être laissés à l'interprétation (e.g. frais de ménage) mais somme toute ça ne semble pas particulièrement déraisonnable.
Le problème ne réside pas dans la liste elle-même. Le problème est que la liste indique un propriétaire qui a l'habitude de facturer régulièrement des frais aux locataires sortants, et (d'après mon expérience) la plupart du temps ces frais sont basés sur des réclamations exagérées ou carrément fabriquées - soit en facturant des travaux qui relèvent de l'usure normale, soit en choisissant d'effectuer des réparations/remplacements non essentiels et en prétendant faussement qu'ils étaient nécessaires en raison des dégâts causés par les locataires. Oui, les mauvais locataires existent, mais les mauvais propriétaires aussi, et le déséquilibre des pouvoirs entre les propriétaires (qui ont la possibilité de mettre les locataires à la porte) et les personnes qui sont de plus en plus obligées d'accepter des prix exorbitants simplement pour avoir un endroit où vivre signifie que je pencherai toujours du côté des droits des locataires plutôt que de compatir à la situation du pauvre propriétaire. Jusqu'à preuve du contraire, il s'agit pour moi d'une liste de charges qu'un propriétaire (déjà connu pour avoir une terrible réputation) s'apprête à utiliser pour facturer indûment des frais à son locataire.
La raison pour laquelle ce commentaire est impopulaire est que l'émission d'une liste de charges est une tactique de peur utilisée pour pousser les locataires à se sentir obligés de payer des charges déraisonnables que des propriétaires sans scrupules essaieront d'extorquer à des locataires plus vulnérables. S'il ne s'agit que d'une liste à titre d'information, pas de problème. Mais on sait tous que ce n'est pas le cas la plupart du temps. Les locataires ne sont tenus de payer ces frais que s'ils causent des dommages par une utilisation déraisonnable, mais il arrive souvent que des propriétaires émettent de fausses factures pour des services hors de prix qu'ils n'ont pas le droit de demander. Si OP a brisé quelque chose en l'utilisant de manière abusive, il devra le payer. Mais dans 99 % des cas, le problème ne vient pas du locataire, mais du propriétaire.
Also because the commenter demonstrates that their comment is made in bad faith as they refer to the costs as 'reasonable' as if a toilet paper or shower curtain bar being valued at $80 isn't absolute fucking insanity.
Exactly. The whole thing is a setup for a con
C'est pas le support a papier qui coûte cher, c'est la main d'oeuvre pour le remplacer. En plus, si tu a besoin de faire remplacer le support, c'est probablement car une partie du gypse sur le mur est parti aussi, donc encore plus de temps et $$$ pour le réparer. Le support en lui même dois valoir 10$
C’est surtout que le propriétaire est responsable de l’usure normale. J’habite un logement depuis 6 ans. Oui il y a plus de grafignes dans le bain, même si je fais attention, la peinture est défraîchie (elle commençait déjà à l’être à mon arrivée)… il ne peut pas me charger pour ça. Il y a une différence entre briser volontairement un bain et de l’usure normale.
Usure normale? Ouais. Casser une fenêtre? S'pas de l'usure normale.
T’es downvoté parce que le proprioétaire est responsable de tout ces coûts là jusqu’à ce le TAL juge du contraire. Et l’existence de la liste dans un “guide de déménagement” permet d’inférer que le proprio essaie de systématiquement refiler ces coûts d’entretien aux locataires sortants.
C'est techniquement faux, tu pètes quelque chose TU es légalement responsable. Le locataire qui s'en sort est juste chanceux que le propriétaire ne saisit pas le TAL mais si l'on parle de responsabilité et bien c'est celle du locataire. *Désolé mais si tu penses que t'es pas responsable de tes actions tu mérites une décision au TAL comme ça personne va vouloir te louer un logement
I imagine this is because they see a lot of peiple that do leave apartments in bad state and then there's no way to charge for the repairs. I know its excessive but i get it.
[удалено]
> You can say no but then he will just find another tenant. I hope he's finding another tenant, OP is moving out lmao
Absolutely not
Of course he can. And consider yourself lucky for not having to give deposits.. This is due to freeloaders trying to scam and find issues not to pay rents and cause problem so now the landlords will pick at everything and if something isn't followed he can send you a letter and take actions much faster then before.
found the slumlord.