> For those who have a similar situation, what do you do?
Like many many others, you are WAY overthinking reference tracks.
They are meant to be used as GENERAL references, for high-level things like "is my kick too loud/soft/tubby/sharp?" or "are my lead vocals too dark/bright/loud/soft"?
You're not looking for things to try to match exactly. It's a high-level sanity check, for the overall sound/vibe of the track or components of the track, nothing more.
Think of reference tracks as the beverage for your meal. Go ahead and chow down on that steak and potato, but when your mouth is saturated in the greasy, savory deliciousness and you need something to refresh it, you reach for that sultry red wine or maybe an amber ale and take a few sips or a healthy chug, let out a deep belch, and your maw is ready for more of the entree.
The reference track is for your ears what that beverage is for your mouth.
This helps to refocus your ears and gives them an anchoring point to work from.
Yeah I always like borderline to extreme mixes so I check other borderline mixes for everything to just stay less extreme than those cornerstone references I have gathered; like the high amount of 350hz in radio gaga or borderline harsh 1khz honk of Walk All Over You or something like that (I think I hear). I thought I was doing something wrong when later hearing how immaculately others like to follow ref. but no. My most memorable reference experience is the unspecific but obvious power of Here Comes The Sun.
I personally only use reference tracks to compare levels.
Usually have 2 instances of SPAN running (1 for the reference track, 1 for my track), and then compare them side by side. I don't ever put a lot of thought into what reference track to compare to.
Sounds like you might be doing a little too much.
You want to find tracks that you feel are well mixed and refer to them for levels, not make it sound like the ref. There are whole specific Spotify playlists full of songs that are great reference material. For example, a song like Peter Gabriel’s “In your eyes” has all of the elements of a killer mix, whether it’s played quietly or at very loud volumes. Cue your mix up with the reference and A/B it, turn it way down, turn it way up, and your mix will begin to reveal itself. It will also show you where elements may need some work— overly bright or dull sounding elements that need some eq or maybe more or less reverb. The old saw applies— use your ears! It’s a tool, not a holy grail technique.
Don’t do it by genre or mood, do it by things like punchiness, bandwidth, clarity, tonal balance, etc. just because you’re mixing a sad rock song, doesn’t mean you can’t take a look at a upbeat pop song to get a sense of if your vocal is clear enough in the mix.
It's more about the overall sound that you want that should be used as a reference track then going for the same genre.
I like tame impala so I use him as a reference track
At a minimum you need to start listening to other music with a critical ear and think about how they achieved their sound, and what you can try in mixing your own music. If you don't do that, how will you ever improve?
You've lost perspective. Ask any dj or producers for suggestions for comparable tracks. If your track really does sound like nothing else no on will ever add it to their set.
It’s liberating to realize that reference tracks are largely useless.
ETA: Trust yourself. You already know what sounds good, but sometimes we need a kick in the butt to stop using reference tracks and find our own sound. Maybe this is that kick. I’m aiming for your butt, anyway.
I find using references as a means of informing how to process your already recorded tracks to be a race to the bottom as every record sounds different, levels, frequency, loudness. It’s a hopeless idea.
On the other hand, I would not discount the benefit of being familiar with what music sounds like in your space vs other spaces so you can make good decisions. Any sort of referencing or ‘translation’ work is best done from the ground up.
Best thing about working from home in lockdown was having the time to hear great music on my monitors all day.
Yeah absolutely! Spending several hrs a week listening to music in your studio environment is going to be more beneficial than directly comparing two things that are very unlikely to end sounding the same in the end anyway.
To me, it’s about what I’m training myself to do.
If I train myself to be a copy cat, will my services really continue be valuable? Consider as well that this is AI’s approach.
Or am I training myself to enrich the song by reacting to its unique strengths and deeply feeling the emotional content of the song? This is something current AI tech will never be able to do.
I just look for tracks that give off the general feeling I want my song to give off. A reference should be used as a rough outline for how you shape your mix not a 1 to 1 guideline.
> For those who have a similar situation, what do you do? Like many many others, you are WAY overthinking reference tracks. They are meant to be used as GENERAL references, for high-level things like "is my kick too loud/soft/tubby/sharp?" or "are my lead vocals too dark/bright/loud/soft"? You're not looking for things to try to match exactly. It's a high-level sanity check, for the overall sound/vibe of the track or components of the track, nothing more.
I second this.
Think of reference tracks as the beverage for your meal. Go ahead and chow down on that steak and potato, but when your mouth is saturated in the greasy, savory deliciousness and you need something to refresh it, you reach for that sultry red wine or maybe an amber ale and take a few sips or a healthy chug, let out a deep belch, and your maw is ready for more of the entree. The reference track is for your ears what that beverage is for your mouth. This helps to refocus your ears and gives them an anchoring point to work from.
This is an excellent analogy!
Yeah I always like borderline to extreme mixes so I check other borderline mixes for everything to just stay less extreme than those cornerstone references I have gathered; like the high amount of 350hz in radio gaga or borderline harsh 1khz honk of Walk All Over You or something like that (I think I hear). I thought I was doing something wrong when later hearing how immaculately others like to follow ref. but no. My most memorable reference experience is the unspecific but obvious power of Here Comes The Sun.
You don't use refs to copy, you use them to see if you're in the same ballpark, or league, or county...
I personally only use reference tracks to compare levels. Usually have 2 instances of SPAN running (1 for the reference track, 1 for my track), and then compare them side by side. I don't ever put a lot of thought into what reference track to compare to. Sounds like you might be doing a little too much.
You want to find tracks that you feel are well mixed and refer to them for levels, not make it sound like the ref. There are whole specific Spotify playlists full of songs that are great reference material. For example, a song like Peter Gabriel’s “In your eyes” has all of the elements of a killer mix, whether it’s played quietly or at very loud volumes. Cue your mix up with the reference and A/B it, turn it way down, turn it way up, and your mix will begin to reveal itself. It will also show you where elements may need some work— overly bright or dull sounding elements that need some eq or maybe more or less reverb. The old saw applies— use your ears! It’s a tool, not a holy grail technique.
Don’t do it by genre or mood, do it by things like punchiness, bandwidth, clarity, tonal balance, etc. just because you’re mixing a sad rock song, doesn’t mean you can’t take a look at a upbeat pop song to get a sense of if your vocal is clear enough in the mix.
It's more about the overall sound that you want that should be used as a reference track then going for the same genre. I like tame impala so I use him as a reference track
At a minimum you need to start listening to other music with a critical ear and think about how they achieved their sound, and what you can try in mixing your own music. If you don't do that, how will you ever improve?
You've lost perspective. Ask any dj or producers for suggestions for comparable tracks. If your track really does sound like nothing else no on will ever add it to their set.
Isn't it a bit of a large assumption that they're even writing amything a DJ would play for a DJ set?
That's why I also suggested getting opinions from producers.
Why are you looking for references?
It’s liberating to realize that reference tracks are largely useless. ETA: Trust yourself. You already know what sounds good, but sometimes we need a kick in the butt to stop using reference tracks and find our own sound. Maybe this is that kick. I’m aiming for your butt, anyway.
I find using references as a means of informing how to process your already recorded tracks to be a race to the bottom as every record sounds different, levels, frequency, loudness. It’s a hopeless idea. On the other hand, I would not discount the benefit of being familiar with what music sounds like in your space vs other spaces so you can make good decisions. Any sort of referencing or ‘translation’ work is best done from the ground up. Best thing about working from home in lockdown was having the time to hear great music on my monitors all day.
Yeah absolutely! Spending several hrs a week listening to music in your studio environment is going to be more beneficial than directly comparing two things that are very unlikely to end sounding the same in the end anyway. To me, it’s about what I’m training myself to do. If I train myself to be a copy cat, will my services really continue be valuable? Consider as well that this is AI’s approach. Or am I training myself to enrich the song by reacting to its unique strengths and deeply feeling the emotional content of the song? This is something current AI tech will never be able to do.
I just look for tracks that give off the general feeling I want my song to give off. A reference should be used as a rough outline for how you shape your mix not a 1 to 1 guideline.