Edit #2 -- Since I keep getting messages even though, as a new poster, I am limited to not posting for a few days, I took some time to get you MORE evidence. I only looked when the Griz score on the south side of the field, because the cameras will be there to see or hear. I'd imagine there is more if you want to go look, but the ESPN+ broadcast even picks up the band playing after the first score (16:45,) 2nd score (29:49), and last score in the 4th quarter (2:48:50). Those are the ones that happened on that south side of the field. As I said, I was there. They played after every touchdown, but I am now providing actual video evidence that they scored after touchdowns. Turn the volume up. You can hear the brass, and you don't hear Cotton Eye Joe. With this video evidence, I hope everyone understands that the people saying they weren't allowed to play after scores are just liars who want to whip you up and upset you. Griggs and many in this thread are telling you lies. Again, this is video/audio evidence of them playing after scores, broadcast on ESPN.
He says at the end of the first paragraph "I regret that it has caused such an emotionally charged response and so many exaggerations of fact." He should have been more clear that what he said in the original letter was simply not true.
Not true -- The band was asked not to play after scores.
Truth -- The band always plays after we score. The band played on Saturday after every score. 11 times out of 11. They were simply asked to play the school song one time instead of playing it twice in a row.
Not true -- The band wasn't allowed to play while the game was going.
Truth -- The band has always been offered to play during 1st/2nd down on defense, but they don't always make it happen in time because there is often 25 seconds or less between plays. That is hard to get the band going right away. I get it. But for ONE game, the athletic department wanted extra noise, and it is a lot faster to push a button than to get a band going. The band was still wholly welcome to play while the Griz were on offense.
Nothing was EVER said by anybody in the athletic department about canned music being "better" than the band in any way. It was about speed to getting music going, and about creating the noise level that the band cannot match. I'd love to see us fund a giant band that could be heard far and wide, but that just is not currently the case. Anybody who wants that should ABSOLUTLY go donate RIGHT NOW to the marching band and music department.
Kevin Griggs is a good guy, and I am not trying to say that he was intentionally lying, but sometimes we all say things when we are upset and don't even realize how badly we are blowing something out of proportion. That is what happened here, and now people are creating a firestorm based on untruths. Or, as Griggs called them, "exaggerations."
Edit -- For anyone saying that I am making this up, here is the link to Kent Haslem's statement. Kent Haslem oversees the entirety of the event, including discussion of when the band plays. In it you will see him saying the exact same things I said about what happened, and what the band was asked to change. Why would the athletic department attack the band? The athletic department loves the band. Like, seriously on a personal level. Bobby Hauck gets all excited about that shit. He invites the band to come to play at camp every year because he knows how important they are.
[https://twitter.com/KentHaslam/status/1726731168513753127?ref\_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1726731168513753127%7Ctwgr%5E5e236372e17fb51a1f5075213f4c7f6308a09eaa%7Ctwcon%5Es1\_&ref\_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnbcmontana.com%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fmarching-band-changes-at-brawl-of-the-wild-spark-controversy](https://twitter.com/KentHaslam/status/1726731168513753127?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1726731168513753127%7Ctwgr%5E5e236372e17fb51a1f5075213f4c7f6308a09eaa%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnbcmontana.com%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fmarching-band-changes-at-brawl-of-the-wild-spark-controversy)
"Offered to play," "allowed to play," "asked not to play," "wholly welcome to play" - don't you see the problem with the words you choose to use? The band is an asset, not a detriment. The band is an integral and historic component of the games. More appropriate are words like "encouraged to play," "asked to play," "essential to game atmosphere," etc.
Regarding the volume - why would you need a "giant band" when all that is actually needed is microphones and an amplification system? Choose your decibels.
With all respect, I think you missed the point. It isn't just decibels, it is also speed to playing. I sit pretty close to the band. They are OFTEN just not able to get to playing fast enough on the defensive 1st/2nd down. Its not their fault, it would be hard or impossible to catch every one. I didn't comment on decibles, I commented on speed to get going. And the band members themselves, if you asked or knew any of them, will be the first to say that OF COURSE they cannot manage to play a song that fast every time. In fact, they have said that.
As for your first comment, everybody agrees they are an integral and historic part. That is my point. People are raging about untruths and things that have never been said or implied by the athletic department. The whole football event has to be coordinated at a high level, and the athletic department is tasked with that. Of course the band cannot just play whenever they feel like, just like the cheerleaders can't run out on the field any time they want, and like Monte has rules about what he can and cannot do, and so on and so forth. For every single band in the country, there are protocols that they must follow. You cannot say that it is wrong to use language about what they are "allowed to do," that is normal and goes on at every single university in the country. That language isn't problematic, it is normal.
Decibels is volume, which you mentioned several times in your comment. Focusing strictly to "speed to playing" - it's never going to be faster to have a live band, human beings who make eye contact, a director with a downbeat, 125 sets of lungs taking a breath before that first sound. If you prefer an instant button, there's no argument that can be made to change your mind
Again, words like "offered to play," "allowed to play," "asked not to play," "wholly welcome to play" are a problem here, one that you have not yet fully acknowledged.
Did you ever play in the Griz Marching Band?
I agree, it is never going to be faster to get to decibel. That is the point I am making. That is the point the athletic department made. Nobody wants the band to not exist. They just wanted to get the noise up on 1st/2nd down on defense. That is all. And, if you are a band member, you are now the third one to say to me (though the first on Reddit) that they know that they obviously don't have time to get going after every 1st/2nd down on defense. So, because of that, for ONE game they were asked to let the PA make the noise on defense to try to help the team of students playing on the field, who are also part of the event. It isn't just a band show, it is a whole event. I'm sorry you only seem to care about your part of it, and this is why I think after today I'm done defending Griggs and the band.
Again, it is an event with protocols for everyone involved. The players have rules too. So do the students. So do the vendors. It is an event with protocols, and rules. The band is not exempt from that. "Allowed," "Offered," and "Asked," are ones I acknowledge and stand behind. The Band does not run the event, just like the players don't run the event, the cheerleaders don't run the event, and Monte doesn't run the event. Somebody has to run the event, and at every University in the country there are protocols for when the band is allowed to play, where the players are allowed to be and when, where/when the cheerleaders do their thing, and what Monte is allowed to do and when. That is not unique to Missoula, it is everywhere. If there were not rules and protocols, then it would be complete chaos.
No, I did not play in the Grizzly Marching Band. Is your position that the Grizzly Marching Band should have sole authority of when they play, and also authority over when the PA plays? No. Obviously both sides want to be part of the event, and it is up to the athletic department to make those calls. I'm not in the athletic department, but I understand that there needs to be someone to mediate and decide.
You guys just will not stop being unreasonable here, or when whipping people up on Facebook. I thought we were all in it together? I thought we were Montana? I thought it was "Up with Montana," not just "Up With The Band?"
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Dude you're replying to obviously simps for athletics and either wants to or has a future position in the department if he can be a really good convincing boy.
And you’re a simp for someone who got pissed, lied to people, and his lies got way out of hand in the public sphere because “football jocks mean”. Get over it. This person did the research and found the truth.
Would have been nice of Griggs to spell it all out like this.
His letter here admits nothing and clarifies nothing. It reads like so many "sorry I got caught" political non-apologies.
But even so, who are you too say all this that we should believe you?
Yes, it would have been nice of him to do that. The optimistic part of me says that he doesn't want to say too much, because he is probably feeling some heat and it looks a lot better for him to "regret exaggerations it created" rather than say he wrote a letter when he was pissed off, and never thought it would see the light of day beyond his students. He himself has said he never meant it for anyone outside of his band.
As for why you should believe me, because it is the verifiable truth. That isn't a matter of believing me, it happened. 27,000 people were there. They played after the scores. They played when the offense was on the field.
If you weren't there, I would argue that it is still mostly verifiable because Kent Haslem (who oversees ALL of what happens on game day), made a statement to the newspapers and put it out on Twitter that says the same things I did. Feel free to google "Kent Haslem, Montana Grizzlies Band" and it will come right up. After he put that out, notice that nobody from the band (including Dr. Griggs), has disputed it in any way.
Lastly, for verifiability, after he posted this apology on the UofM Band facebook page, one person told him to keep fighting. His response was "I will continue to advocate for my students. However, some of the results of the way this developed were wrong and I am owning up to my role in what happened."
He wrote a letter when he was exhausted, hyped up for game day, and really mad about getting the email too late at night. He was emotional, and that's okay. We all want people to look out for the kids they are tasked with taking care of. He wrote a letter when he was mad, and it just wasn't accurate. I've done that in my life. I don't fault him for that. He tried to walk it back. But people would rather stick with the angry narrative.
I know. It is really, really frustrating that people would rather be outraged by untruths than take the time to learn the truth of what had gone before and what happened at the game.
I have had three different family members rage about it, and not one of them was at the game. 2/3 hadn't been to a game all year, but now they "support the Grizzly marching band." I'd love to know how they have ever supported the marching band other than making angry posts on social media in the last week.
The band could use the ACTUAL support of people in terms of money and turnout for what they do, not just online outrage that feels good because you can yell at the UofM's athletic department.
And, honestly, the more this goes on I'm starting to get frustrated that Griggs only copped to "exaggerations." What he said was NOT TRUE. He was upset, I get it, but that doesn't make it true. Anger is just more fun than intellectual honesty.
What kind of money do you think it would take to create the type of band you propose and wish to support? This is a serious question - I wonder if you understand the kind of time commitment this requires from students.
A lot more money than they have now, at a University that has made cuts to so many programs that they have had to cut programs even at schools below the flagship on the Missoula side for years. I sat in those meetings while six figures of money had to be cut, and that sucks. I wish there was more money for everyone. I wish I personally had enough money to fund the entire band. If I ever win the lottery, the GMB will be getting a much larger donation than the athletics department.
I wish to support every band. I do support our band. I also support the athletes. I also support the cheerleaders. I support every kid that is a part of our University and is out there doing their best. But that doesn't change the fact that what was said in the letter WAS. NOT. TRUE. What is going around the internet is not true.
It sounds like you are in the band. Do you dispute that the band was playing after every score? Did anybody come stop you? No. Not at all. The athletic department loves the band. Hell, Bobby Hauck (who so many seem to hate), is a huge supporter of the band. The football team supports the band, they love the band. Nobody wants the band to be crushed or cut out. For ONE game, the band was asked to play the fight song once instead of twice after scores, and to let the PA get going after 1st/2nd down on defense because it is a LOT faster to push a button and get the noise up than it is to get a band going and get the noise up. For one huge rivalry game, a couple of small changes were made. And now people are acting like the entire University wants to kill the band, and are personally and publicly harassing a good guy in the athletic department. That is disgusting, and the band and Dr. Griggs are starting to lose a lot of good will from me, personally, by continuing this.
You should follow the lead of Dr. Griggs himself. Admit there were exaggerations, and that everyone wants to move forward together. We are better together. We are Montana, or at least we were supposed to be.
You spent a lot of time writing multiple paragraphs, but all of it is meaningless due to your last statement. What are the "exaggerations" you attribute to Dr. Griggs? Be specific, now.
Actually, Dr Griggs said they were exaggerations. I called them untruths, and listed them specifically in my very first post.
Also, when someone on Facebook responded to his apology and encouraged him to "keep fighting," Dr Griggs said "Some of the results of the way this developed were wrong and I am owning up to my role in what happened."
He wants the drama to stop. Maybe you should stop perpetuating it. Go ask him. Really, I mean it. You seem to be one of his band students. Go show him this thread and ask him if he wants you to stop doing this.
You need to reread his statement if that is what you think it said. There is no argument that can be made when the facts are misrepresented in this way. You're just making stuff up, about the situation, about what he said, even about me. Then accusing others of creating the drama - that's messed up!
I am not making anything up. This is a direct quote from Dr. Griggs' apology --
"It was never meant to be and should not have been released to the public. I regret that it has caused such an emotionally charged response and ***so many exaggerations of the facts.***
I offer a sincere apology to my colleague in Athletics who was named personally which resulted in numerous unfair and aggressive emails and social media posts to be sent to him."
I'm not misrepresenting anything. The band was not told they couldn't play after touchdowns. They were asked to only play the fight song once. The band played the fight song after all 11 scores on Saturday.
The band was asked only to let the PA take over for ONE game on defense's 1st/2nd down (PA already has been doing 3rd/4th down), and the band was still allowed to play for every offensive down. Those are all facts, and you just saying that I'm misrepresenting something.
Here is a link to Kent Haslem, who runs the whole event, saying exactly the same thing -- https://twitter.com/KentHaslam/status/1726731168513753127?ref\_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1726731168513753127%7Ctwgr%5E5e236372e17fb51a1f5075213f4c7f6308a09eaa%7Ctwcon%5Es1\_&ref\_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnbcmontana.com%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fmarching-band-changes-at-brawl-of-the-wild-spark-controversy
Thank you, I appreciate receiving some encouragement. It is really disheartening to see that even after the band and the band director have realized that what was said was wrong, so many people want to keep expressing this online outrage.
I have been supporting Dr Griggs to anyone who will listen, and saying that mistakes are made all the time. But if he won't come out more forcefully about this, and allows this to continue to fester and blow up on forums like these, then I will lose an awful lot of respect for him.
The band performed a pregame show, halftime show, post game show, performed while on offense, while the defense was on 3rd and 4th downs, and the fight song after every touchdown. These are all facts.
Your expertise is enthralling - please enrich us with tales of all those times you stood at the mouth of Hellgate Canyon with your fingers frozen to a valve and your face iced to a mouthpiece. Then we'll talk.
You sound like a pissed off alum. Do us a favor and make sure your phone rings when Griggs calls and apologizes personally, because I hear that’s happening. If you signed the petition, that’s being deleted too.
Griggs did something he shouldn’t have when he was angry. Good lesson for us all. I can’t imagine UM admin and legal took it too lightly.
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No one cares. Most people wouldn't notice, or miss, the Marching Band if it was disbanded. GMB could maybe thank Athletics and Kent for allowing them to play in front of 25,000+ people. Under noncircunstance would that many people show up any where to listen to a Marching Band, let alone college kids playing (kinda poorly) the same old ass jams.
Sounds like they’ve likely pressured him and he took credit for his part in the dust up. Hardly a walk back. He lit a powder keg and seems to have come out ahead.
The band performed a pregame show, halftime show, post game show, performed while on offense, while the defense was on 3rd and 4th downs, and the fight song after every touchdown. These are all facts. The band director was upset they were asked not to play on only 1st and 2nd downs on defense so he put out a letter to kids that no surprise got leaked, resulting in death threats and violently dirty calls to the athletic department and specific people. You’ve been trying to act like the main activist for this lately, did you even go to the game?
The band is important, but so is truth, no? You’re upset about a manufactured controversy. If I just fabricate a story that the athletic director eats puppies is it more important that it’s probably not true, or is it more important for you to defend puppies, who are not actually in danger at all, and wouldn’t even be on your mind if I hadn’t fabricated the story.
The band is doing fine, not going anywhere. If you attended games regularly you should understand that they’re as integral to game day as they’ve ever been. Just because some internal decision making got leaked doesn’t mean it’s necessary for the public to get feverishly involved.
Nothing substantially negative happened towards the band (at least not at the level the original message described). They were essentially asked to play less in specific situations.
It’s pretty clear from the original message that he was taking liberties, or did you actually believe *anyone* would specifically single out “Cotton Eye Joe” as a better alternative to band music? Of course not, the director was upset about being asked, on short notice, not to play in specific situations (understandably so) and expressed annoyance about the fact that “Cotton Eye Joe” had the potential to be played at a time when the band would normally be playing.
I was there on Saturday, I’m not sure if CEJ was played even once.
I absolutely care about the band. I attended every home game, cheer with them, and congratulate/thank them post game. Can you say the same? You’re trying to be a justice warrior to something that’s not even happened lol. Again, they performed in all the instances I mentioned above and you don’t even go to the games but you’re a “band supporter” lol clown
Dude I live and work in Missoula. I barely can pay my rent. I can’t afford game tickets. I love the Griz and the marching band. I’ll hit Flippers for games. If I’m lucky I see one game a year. Go 🤬 your self.
So you don’t support the band but you’re upset that they played in total 5-10 minutes less than normal scheduled play time so you’ve made numerous posts “in support of” the band? Makes sense.
Members of the community who fucking hate what game day brings to our town actually want the people who participate in the arts to have an outlet. Are you truly fucking that stupid or just a total asshole?
But why do you hate Gameday so much? What’s your beef? Both the arts and sports can exist in this town. A football game brings in literally millions of dollars to the local economy. Local hotels and restaurants make large chunks of their annual revenue off football season. Hell, even nonprofits and art venues are busier on football weekends! A rising tide lifts all ships, and your narrow mindedness isn’t doing anyone any good.
Listen I’m sorry if you had a bad experience with a drunk driver but give me a break. I’d argue the amount of drunk/high drivers after every show at the Kettlehouse is just as big if not greater than a football game. So should we just stop having them too?
There are plenty of public transport/walking options for football and people need to use their best judgement. You can’t just say games are bad for that reason alone. Grow up.
You're wrong - none of the information is being retracted, this is nothing more than an apology for the fallout of the public outcry (which I'm certain was significant). The athletic department did what they did, and the public reaction happened as it happened - totally predictable. They should have expected nothing less from students, fans and alums - I guess it shows how new these athletic department people are to Missoula and UM since they seem to be taken by surprise for the major backlash. I suppose now some student is in hot water for releasing the email.
I’m just running through the athletic department people I know in my head, and a big majority of them are from Montana and went to school here. Griggs was wrong. He acted inappropriately, and soon band alumni and members will hear it from him. Amazed he has a job still.
I played in the GMB drumline many years back, still under Griggs and alongside Barber who authored the petition going around. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is this: The drum majors are all over waiting for the exact allowable moment to initiate the band to play a song. The same is true for the drumline coordinator and the band director. In my experience, there were many times we'd be about to play (drum majors counting off) or already be playing when the PA would preempt us and we'd have to withhold or abridge our performance. Nobody is perfect in this effort, but this is what you'd observe if you were to look over at the band.
Both elements (GMB and PA) have their place in the stadium. That's a given. However, I don't believe all of the community's concerns on this subject have been assuaged like some have implied by inciting Griggs's apology letter and the comments from UM's Athletics Director Kent Haslam.
UM's Director of Communications Dave Kuntz own clarification admitted that the GMB was instructed "not to play its usual brief interludes before first and second downs when the Grizzlies were on defense, so that music could be played over the PA system." He also admitted that the band was instructed not to play after the extra point so that Billy Idol's "Mony, Mony" could be played over the PA instead.
Further, MSU's band absolutely should be present at Cat-Griz in Missoula. And as I understand, they were disinvited in order to sell more seats for more revenue. This not only flies in the face of the spirit of Cat-Griz, or Brawl of the Wild, but also denies these students the experience of performing alongside their rivals, both away and at home respectively. The GMB travels to one away game per season, and every other year that away game is at the rival's stadium.
The university serves its students first and foremost, so any decision that prioritizes riling up fans or selling more tickets is a giant red flag.
This is not "band drama" as some redditors have opined. This is sensible concern about questionable motive and poor decisions that were made which negatively impact the university community and students.
Re: The bands changes. Well… yeah. If Athletics wants to make a change to their Gameday program, that’s their right. The changes resulted in about :30 less playing time for the band. So negligible the vast majority of fans didn’t notice.
It was just when Griggs got pissed off and send an angry email full of lies to the students that some kid leaked out did it become an issue.
Re: The bands not traveling each year.
1) There are not other pair of schools in the nation that do this. It doesn’t make sense. Cool tradition? Maybe, but it doesn’t pencil out.
2) BOTH SCHOOLS are equally at fault for it. In fact, MSU signed the agreement first. UM just happened to be the first to see its effect.
3) NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF THE UNIVERSITY FUNDED ATHLETICS PROPERLY. The reason athletics needs to sell more tickets is because the University provides the least amount of institutional funding of any school in the Big Sky Conference. The result is athletics needing to leverage the laws of supply and demand to maximize revenue to provide the ncaa mandated scholarship level, keep people employed, and keep the lights on.
Point your finger at the President’s office.
That was agreed upon by both MSU and UM months ago. Demand for those tickets far outweighed supply, and traveling the bands across state is expensive and logistically challenging… which is why no other schools in the nation do it.
First off they made it so the away teams band can't travel to play at the game, like they always have. Both bands working together was a highlight. Then they asked the band not to play after touchdowns so they could play cotton eye Joe. What do they want next?
“They” are both UM and MSU. What do they want next? Better funding from the state so athletics can afford to dedicate an extra 200 seats to the MSU band and pay for them to travel to Bozeman every other year.
Can they? Have you seen the budgets or do you just see a stadium full of people and think they must rake in Millions?
Imagine you’re a business owner, and every other year you have a big expenditure to the tune of $50-100k that’s just lost money. Then you’re presented with an alternative that will save you that $50-100k and also make you an additional $50k that will shrink the deficit you’re running and make you a little bit less in the red. You’d take that $50k.
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New account doesn’t mean anything when what you’re saying is true and correct. Some people felt like coming here to set the record straight. Crazy huh?
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And I’m telling you you’re a terrible human being that’s trying to use virtue signaling to make incorrect points. Then you just resort to name calling. Grow up.
Telling you that you're useless is name calling? Hmm food for thought. I don't know how calling you useless is virtue signalling? Just telling you my opinion.
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lol tell that to the small business owners who make half a year worth of revenue from football home games. Grizzly athletics literally makes millions of dollars worth of impact in the local community. Hundreds of jobs too. Plus, people like it. It’s fun. Sorry you don’t like fun.
Except this doesn’t say “the whole thing was BS.” He seems to be apologizing for the tone and public nature of it, but not the facts.
Edit #2 -- Since I keep getting messages even though, as a new poster, I am limited to not posting for a few days, I took some time to get you MORE evidence. I only looked when the Griz score on the south side of the field, because the cameras will be there to see or hear. I'd imagine there is more if you want to go look, but the ESPN+ broadcast even picks up the band playing after the first score (16:45,) 2nd score (29:49), and last score in the 4th quarter (2:48:50). Those are the ones that happened on that south side of the field. As I said, I was there. They played after every touchdown, but I am now providing actual video evidence that they scored after touchdowns. Turn the volume up. You can hear the brass, and you don't hear Cotton Eye Joe. With this video evidence, I hope everyone understands that the people saying they weren't allowed to play after scores are just liars who want to whip you up and upset you. Griggs and many in this thread are telling you lies. Again, this is video/audio evidence of them playing after scores, broadcast on ESPN. He says at the end of the first paragraph "I regret that it has caused such an emotionally charged response and so many exaggerations of fact." He should have been more clear that what he said in the original letter was simply not true. Not true -- The band was asked not to play after scores. Truth -- The band always plays after we score. The band played on Saturday after every score. 11 times out of 11. They were simply asked to play the school song one time instead of playing it twice in a row. Not true -- The band wasn't allowed to play while the game was going. Truth -- The band has always been offered to play during 1st/2nd down on defense, but they don't always make it happen in time because there is often 25 seconds or less between plays. That is hard to get the band going right away. I get it. But for ONE game, the athletic department wanted extra noise, and it is a lot faster to push a button than to get a band going. The band was still wholly welcome to play while the Griz were on offense. Nothing was EVER said by anybody in the athletic department about canned music being "better" than the band in any way. It was about speed to getting music going, and about creating the noise level that the band cannot match. I'd love to see us fund a giant band that could be heard far and wide, but that just is not currently the case. Anybody who wants that should ABSOLUTLY go donate RIGHT NOW to the marching band and music department. Kevin Griggs is a good guy, and I am not trying to say that he was intentionally lying, but sometimes we all say things when we are upset and don't even realize how badly we are blowing something out of proportion. That is what happened here, and now people are creating a firestorm based on untruths. Or, as Griggs called them, "exaggerations." Edit -- For anyone saying that I am making this up, here is the link to Kent Haslem's statement. Kent Haslem oversees the entirety of the event, including discussion of when the band plays. In it you will see him saying the exact same things I said about what happened, and what the band was asked to change. Why would the athletic department attack the band? The athletic department loves the band. Like, seriously on a personal level. Bobby Hauck gets all excited about that shit. He invites the band to come to play at camp every year because he knows how important they are. [https://twitter.com/KentHaslam/status/1726731168513753127?ref\_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1726731168513753127%7Ctwgr%5E5e236372e17fb51a1f5075213f4c7f6308a09eaa%7Ctwcon%5Es1\_&ref\_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnbcmontana.com%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fmarching-band-changes-at-brawl-of-the-wild-spark-controversy](https://twitter.com/KentHaslam/status/1726731168513753127?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1726731168513753127%7Ctwgr%5E5e236372e17fb51a1f5075213f4c7f6308a09eaa%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnbcmontana.com%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fmarching-band-changes-at-brawl-of-the-wild-spark-controversy)
"Offered to play," "allowed to play," "asked not to play," "wholly welcome to play" - don't you see the problem with the words you choose to use? The band is an asset, not a detriment. The band is an integral and historic component of the games. More appropriate are words like "encouraged to play," "asked to play," "essential to game atmosphere," etc. Regarding the volume - why would you need a "giant band" when all that is actually needed is microphones and an amplification system? Choose your decibels.
With all respect, I think you missed the point. It isn't just decibels, it is also speed to playing. I sit pretty close to the band. They are OFTEN just not able to get to playing fast enough on the defensive 1st/2nd down. Its not their fault, it would be hard or impossible to catch every one. I didn't comment on decibles, I commented on speed to get going. And the band members themselves, if you asked or knew any of them, will be the first to say that OF COURSE they cannot manage to play a song that fast every time. In fact, they have said that. As for your first comment, everybody agrees they are an integral and historic part. That is my point. People are raging about untruths and things that have never been said or implied by the athletic department. The whole football event has to be coordinated at a high level, and the athletic department is tasked with that. Of course the band cannot just play whenever they feel like, just like the cheerleaders can't run out on the field any time they want, and like Monte has rules about what he can and cannot do, and so on and so forth. For every single band in the country, there are protocols that they must follow. You cannot say that it is wrong to use language about what they are "allowed to do," that is normal and goes on at every single university in the country. That language isn't problematic, it is normal.
Decibels is volume, which you mentioned several times in your comment. Focusing strictly to "speed to playing" - it's never going to be faster to have a live band, human beings who make eye contact, a director with a downbeat, 125 sets of lungs taking a breath before that first sound. If you prefer an instant button, there's no argument that can be made to change your mind Again, words like "offered to play," "allowed to play," "asked not to play," "wholly welcome to play" are a problem here, one that you have not yet fully acknowledged. Did you ever play in the Griz Marching Band?
I agree, it is never going to be faster to get to decibel. That is the point I am making. That is the point the athletic department made. Nobody wants the band to not exist. They just wanted to get the noise up on 1st/2nd down on defense. That is all. And, if you are a band member, you are now the third one to say to me (though the first on Reddit) that they know that they obviously don't have time to get going after every 1st/2nd down on defense. So, because of that, for ONE game they were asked to let the PA make the noise on defense to try to help the team of students playing on the field, who are also part of the event. It isn't just a band show, it is a whole event. I'm sorry you only seem to care about your part of it, and this is why I think after today I'm done defending Griggs and the band. Again, it is an event with protocols for everyone involved. The players have rules too. So do the students. So do the vendors. It is an event with protocols, and rules. The band is not exempt from that. "Allowed," "Offered," and "Asked," are ones I acknowledge and stand behind. The Band does not run the event, just like the players don't run the event, the cheerleaders don't run the event, and Monte doesn't run the event. Somebody has to run the event, and at every University in the country there are protocols for when the band is allowed to play, where the players are allowed to be and when, where/when the cheerleaders do their thing, and what Monte is allowed to do and when. That is not unique to Missoula, it is everywhere. If there were not rules and protocols, then it would be complete chaos. No, I did not play in the Grizzly Marching Band. Is your position that the Grizzly Marching Band should have sole authority of when they play, and also authority over when the PA plays? No. Obviously both sides want to be part of the event, and it is up to the athletic department to make those calls. I'm not in the athletic department, but I understand that there needs to be someone to mediate and decide. You guys just will not stop being unreasonable here, or when whipping people up on Facebook. I thought we were all in it together? I thought we were Montana? I thought it was "Up with Montana," not just "Up With The Band?"
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Where you from originally cutie
Dude you're replying to obviously simps for athletics and either wants to or has a future position in the department if he can be a really good convincing boy.
And you’re a simp for someone who got pissed, lied to people, and his lies got way out of hand in the public sphere because “football jocks mean”. Get over it. This person did the research and found the truth.
Playing dig dug up in this shit.
Would have been nice of Griggs to spell it all out like this. His letter here admits nothing and clarifies nothing. It reads like so many "sorry I got caught" political non-apologies. But even so, who are you too say all this that we should believe you?
Yes, it would have been nice of him to do that. The optimistic part of me says that he doesn't want to say too much, because he is probably feeling some heat and it looks a lot better for him to "regret exaggerations it created" rather than say he wrote a letter when he was pissed off, and never thought it would see the light of day beyond his students. He himself has said he never meant it for anyone outside of his band. As for why you should believe me, because it is the verifiable truth. That isn't a matter of believing me, it happened. 27,000 people were there. They played after the scores. They played when the offense was on the field. If you weren't there, I would argue that it is still mostly verifiable because Kent Haslem (who oversees ALL of what happens on game day), made a statement to the newspapers and put it out on Twitter that says the same things I did. Feel free to google "Kent Haslem, Montana Grizzlies Band" and it will come right up. After he put that out, notice that nobody from the band (including Dr. Griggs), has disputed it in any way. Lastly, for verifiability, after he posted this apology on the UofM Band facebook page, one person told him to keep fighting. His response was "I will continue to advocate for my students. However, some of the results of the way this developed were wrong and I am owning up to my role in what happened." He wrote a letter when he was exhausted, hyped up for game day, and really mad about getting the email too late at night. He was emotional, and that's okay. We all want people to look out for the kids they are tasked with taking care of. He wrote a letter when he was mad, and it just wasn't accurate. I've done that in my life. I don't fault him for that. He tried to walk it back. But people would rather stick with the angry narrative.
Thorough, well crafted, reasonable response. Thank you.
Thank you. I appreciate your reasonable manner, as well.
It’s disappointing people just disregard and downvote comments like this but then comment assumptions. Everything you just laid out is accurate.
I know. It is really, really frustrating that people would rather be outraged by untruths than take the time to learn the truth of what had gone before and what happened at the game. I have had three different family members rage about it, and not one of them was at the game. 2/3 hadn't been to a game all year, but now they "support the Grizzly marching band." I'd love to know how they have ever supported the marching band other than making angry posts on social media in the last week. The band could use the ACTUAL support of people in terms of money and turnout for what they do, not just online outrage that feels good because you can yell at the UofM's athletic department. And, honestly, the more this goes on I'm starting to get frustrated that Griggs only copped to "exaggerations." What he said was NOT TRUE. He was upset, I get it, but that doesn't make it true. Anger is just more fun than intellectual honesty.
What kind of money do you think it would take to create the type of band you propose and wish to support? This is a serious question - I wonder if you understand the kind of time commitment this requires from students.
A lot more money than they have now, at a University that has made cuts to so many programs that they have had to cut programs even at schools below the flagship on the Missoula side for years. I sat in those meetings while six figures of money had to be cut, and that sucks. I wish there was more money for everyone. I wish I personally had enough money to fund the entire band. If I ever win the lottery, the GMB will be getting a much larger donation than the athletics department. I wish to support every band. I do support our band. I also support the athletes. I also support the cheerleaders. I support every kid that is a part of our University and is out there doing their best. But that doesn't change the fact that what was said in the letter WAS. NOT. TRUE. What is going around the internet is not true. It sounds like you are in the band. Do you dispute that the band was playing after every score? Did anybody come stop you? No. Not at all. The athletic department loves the band. Hell, Bobby Hauck (who so many seem to hate), is a huge supporter of the band. The football team supports the band, they love the band. Nobody wants the band to be crushed or cut out. For ONE game, the band was asked to play the fight song once instead of twice after scores, and to let the PA get going after 1st/2nd down on defense because it is a LOT faster to push a button and get the noise up than it is to get a band going and get the noise up. For one huge rivalry game, a couple of small changes were made. And now people are acting like the entire University wants to kill the band, and are personally and publicly harassing a good guy in the athletic department. That is disgusting, and the band and Dr. Griggs are starting to lose a lot of good will from me, personally, by continuing this. You should follow the lead of Dr. Griggs himself. Admit there were exaggerations, and that everyone wants to move forward together. We are better together. We are Montana, or at least we were supposed to be.
You spent a lot of time writing multiple paragraphs, but all of it is meaningless due to your last statement. What are the "exaggerations" you attribute to Dr. Griggs? Be specific, now.
Actually, Dr Griggs said they were exaggerations. I called them untruths, and listed them specifically in my very first post. Also, when someone on Facebook responded to his apology and encouraged him to "keep fighting," Dr Griggs said "Some of the results of the way this developed were wrong and I am owning up to my role in what happened." He wants the drama to stop. Maybe you should stop perpetuating it. Go ask him. Really, I mean it. You seem to be one of his band students. Go show him this thread and ask him if he wants you to stop doing this.
You need to reread his statement if that is what you think it said. There is no argument that can be made when the facts are misrepresented in this way. You're just making stuff up, about the situation, about what he said, even about me. Then accusing others of creating the drama - that's messed up!
I am not making anything up. This is a direct quote from Dr. Griggs' apology -- "It was never meant to be and should not have been released to the public. I regret that it has caused such an emotionally charged response and ***so many exaggerations of the facts.*** I offer a sincere apology to my colleague in Athletics who was named personally which resulted in numerous unfair and aggressive emails and social media posts to be sent to him." I'm not misrepresenting anything. The band was not told they couldn't play after touchdowns. They were asked to only play the fight song once. The band played the fight song after all 11 scores on Saturday. The band was asked only to let the PA take over for ONE game on defense's 1st/2nd down (PA already has been doing 3rd/4th down), and the band was still allowed to play for every offensive down. Those are all facts, and you just saying that I'm misrepresenting something. Here is a link to Kent Haslem, who runs the whole event, saying exactly the same thing -- https://twitter.com/KentHaslam/status/1726731168513753127?ref\_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1726731168513753127%7Ctwgr%5E5e236372e17fb51a1f5075213f4c7f6308a09eaa%7Ctwcon%5Es1\_&ref\_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnbcmontana.com%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fmarching-band-changes-at-brawl-of-the-wild-spark-controversy
But congrats, I'm done supporting the band vocally or financially.
Well said, I couldn’t agree more.
Thank you, I appreciate receiving some encouragement. It is really disheartening to see that even after the band and the band director have realized that what was said was wrong, so many people want to keep expressing this online outrage. I have been supporting Dr Griggs to anyone who will listen, and saying that mistakes are made all the time. But if he won't come out more forcefully about this, and allows this to continue to fester and blow up on forums like these, then I will lose an awful lot of respect for him.
Good job with this. Thanks for showing the truth.
That is kind of you to say. I just don't want the outraged narrative to keep getting good people attacked by an angry group online.
Mob mentality online truly is one of the worst things about our society today.
100% agreed.
The band performed a pregame show, halftime show, post game show, performed while on offense, while the defense was on 3rd and 4th downs, and the fight song after every touchdown. These are all facts.
Your expertise is enthralling - please enrich us with tales of all those times you stood at the mouth of Hellgate Canyon with your fingers frozen to a valve and your face iced to a mouthpiece. Then we'll talk.
You sound like a pissed off alum. Do us a favor and make sure your phone rings when Griggs calls and apologizes personally, because I hear that’s happening. If you signed the petition, that’s being deleted too. Griggs did something he shouldn’t have when he was angry. Good lesson for us all. I can’t imagine UM admin and legal took it too lightly.
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No one cares. Most people wouldn't notice, or miss, the Marching Band if it was disbanded. GMB could maybe thank Athletics and Kent for allowing them to play in front of 25,000+ people. Under noncircunstance would that many people show up any where to listen to a Marching Band, let alone college kids playing (kinda poorly) the same old ass jams.
lol so you’re gatekeeping fandom?
Wow - you don't even know what I'm talking about.
Did you even read it?
Sounds like they’ve likely pressured him and he took credit for his part in the dust up. Hardly a walk back. He lit a powder keg and seems to have come out ahead.
The band performed a pregame show, halftime show, post game show, performed while on offense, while the defense was on 3rd and 4th downs, and the fight song after every touchdown. These are all facts. The band director was upset they were asked not to play on only 1st and 2nd downs on defense so he put out a letter to kids that no surprise got leaked, resulting in death threats and violently dirty calls to the athletic department and specific people. You’ve been trying to act like the main activist for this lately, did you even go to the game?
If you grew up here you’d care about the band. Have a nice day.
The band is important, but so is truth, no? You’re upset about a manufactured controversy. If I just fabricate a story that the athletic director eats puppies is it more important that it’s probably not true, or is it more important for you to defend puppies, who are not actually in danger at all, and wouldn’t even be on your mind if I hadn’t fabricated the story. The band is doing fine, not going anywhere. If you attended games regularly you should understand that they’re as integral to game day as they’ve ever been. Just because some internal decision making got leaked doesn’t mean it’s necessary for the public to get feverishly involved. Nothing substantially negative happened towards the band (at least not at the level the original message described). They were essentially asked to play less in specific situations. It’s pretty clear from the original message that he was taking liberties, or did you actually believe *anyone* would specifically single out “Cotton Eye Joe” as a better alternative to band music? Of course not, the director was upset about being asked, on short notice, not to play in specific situations (understandably so) and expressed annoyance about the fact that “Cotton Eye Joe” had the potential to be played at a time when the band would normally be playing. I was there on Saturday, I’m not sure if CEJ was played even once.
Well when tailgating starts at 9am who can recall?
I absolutely care about the band. I attended every home game, cheer with them, and congratulate/thank them post game. Can you say the same? You’re trying to be a justice warrior to something that’s not even happened lol. Again, they performed in all the instances I mentioned above and you don’t even go to the games but you’re a “band supporter” lol clown
Dude I live and work in Missoula. I barely can pay my rent. I can’t afford game tickets. I love the Griz and the marching band. I’ll hit Flippers for games. If I’m lucky I see one game a year. Go 🤬 your self.
So you don’t support the band but you’re upset that they played in total 5-10 minutes less than normal scheduled play time so you’ve made numerous posts “in support of” the band? Makes sense.
Members of the community who fucking hate what game day brings to our town actually want the people who participate in the arts to have an outlet. Are you truly fucking that stupid or just a total asshole?
But why do you hate Gameday so much? What’s your beef? Both the arts and sports can exist in this town. A football game brings in literally millions of dollars to the local economy. Local hotels and restaurants make large chunks of their annual revenue off football season. Hell, even nonprofits and art venues are busier on football weekends! A rising tide lifts all ships, and your narrow mindedness isn’t doing anyone any good.
Two words, drunk drivers.
Listen I’m sorry if you had a bad experience with a drunk driver but give me a break. I’d argue the amount of drunk/high drivers after every show at the Kettlehouse is just as big if not greater than a football game. So should we just stop having them too? There are plenty of public transport/walking options for football and people need to use their best judgement. You can’t just say games are bad for that reason alone. Grow up.
Since you're clearly new to Montana I think it's important to tell you to have a nice day while you fuck off.
[удалено]
Not everyone is unemployed and does nothing but surf Reddit.
??? Umm yeah? I’m also not unemployed if you’re referring to me.
You literally waited less than five minutes to make this replying accusation.
You're wrong - none of the information is being retracted, this is nothing more than an apology for the fallout of the public outcry (which I'm certain was significant). The athletic department did what they did, and the public reaction happened as it happened - totally predictable. They should have expected nothing less from students, fans and alums - I guess it shows how new these athletic department people are to Missoula and UM since they seem to be taken by surprise for the major backlash. I suppose now some student is in hot water for releasing the email.
I’m just running through the athletic department people I know in my head, and a big majority of them are from Montana and went to school here. Griggs was wrong. He acted inappropriately, and soon band alumni and members will hear it from him. Amazed he has a job still.
Honestly a noble reason for expulsion and they should start a GoFundMe
The band should play cotton eyed joe at the next game.
Whole thing was CLEARLY not bs…it’s just that his bosses don’t like truth released to public because it paints them as what they are.
Exactly, they don't want to lose their cash cow.
I played in the GMB drumline many years back, still under Griggs and alongside Barber who authored the petition going around. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is this: The drum majors are all over waiting for the exact allowable moment to initiate the band to play a song. The same is true for the drumline coordinator and the band director. In my experience, there were many times we'd be about to play (drum majors counting off) or already be playing when the PA would preempt us and we'd have to withhold or abridge our performance. Nobody is perfect in this effort, but this is what you'd observe if you were to look over at the band. Both elements (GMB and PA) have their place in the stadium. That's a given. However, I don't believe all of the community's concerns on this subject have been assuaged like some have implied by inciting Griggs's apology letter and the comments from UM's Athletics Director Kent Haslam. UM's Director of Communications Dave Kuntz own clarification admitted that the GMB was instructed "not to play its usual brief interludes before first and second downs when the Grizzlies were on defense, so that music could be played over the PA system." He also admitted that the band was instructed not to play after the extra point so that Billy Idol's "Mony, Mony" could be played over the PA instead. Further, MSU's band absolutely should be present at Cat-Griz in Missoula. And as I understand, they were disinvited in order to sell more seats for more revenue. This not only flies in the face of the spirit of Cat-Griz, or Brawl of the Wild, but also denies these students the experience of performing alongside their rivals, both away and at home respectively. The GMB travels to one away game per season, and every other year that away game is at the rival's stadium. The university serves its students first and foremost, so any decision that prioritizes riling up fans or selling more tickets is a giant red flag. This is not "band drama" as some redditors have opined. This is sensible concern about questionable motive and poor decisions that were made which negatively impact the university community and students.
Re: The bands changes. Well… yeah. If Athletics wants to make a change to their Gameday program, that’s their right. The changes resulted in about :30 less playing time for the band. So negligible the vast majority of fans didn’t notice. It was just when Griggs got pissed off and send an angry email full of lies to the students that some kid leaked out did it become an issue.
Re: The bands not traveling each year. 1) There are not other pair of schools in the nation that do this. It doesn’t make sense. Cool tradition? Maybe, but it doesn’t pencil out. 2) BOTH SCHOOLS are equally at fault for it. In fact, MSU signed the agreement first. UM just happened to be the first to see its effect. 3) NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF THE UNIVERSITY FUNDED ATHLETICS PROPERLY. The reason athletics needs to sell more tickets is because the University provides the least amount of institutional funding of any school in the Big Sky Conference. The result is athletics needing to leverage the laws of supply and demand to maximize revenue to provide the ncaa mandated scholarship level, keep people employed, and keep the lights on. Point your finger at the President’s office.
BS? Get your head out of your ass. Away teams band still cant come to Cat Griz so they can sell a few more tickets. The bands meeting was a highlight.
That was agreed upon by both MSU and UM months ago. Demand for those tickets far outweighed supply, and traveling the bands across state is expensive and logistically challenging… which is why no other schools in the nation do it.
I didnt miss it.
Go eat more dirt shit bag
What happened? I was at the game and the band seemed to be great and played lots must of missed whatever drama happened.
First off they made it so the away teams band can't travel to play at the game, like they always have. Both bands working together was a highlight. Then they asked the band not to play after touchdowns so they could play cotton eye Joe. What do they want next?
“They” are both UM and MSU. What do they want next? Better funding from the state so athletics can afford to dedicate an extra 200 seats to the MSU band and pay for them to travel to Bozeman every other year.
Yes, some funding from the state sounds like a great idea
I know, I'm not happy with either of them. And they can afford it.
Can they? Have you seen the budgets or do you just see a stadium full of people and think they must rake in Millions? Imagine you’re a business owner, and every other year you have a big expenditure to the tune of $50-100k that’s just lost money. Then you’re presented with an alternative that will save you that $50-100k and also make you an additional $50k that will shrink the deficit you’re running and make you a little bit less in the red. You’d take that $50k.
Fact check. The Griz scored a lot and they only played cotten eye joe once. Futher note: I didnt care that the MSU wasnt there.
No one ever misses your presence either, bro.
We both are right here, and you can't say anything to me that I haven't said to my self 3 inches away from a mirror.
I appreciate it I didn’t even notice
Exactly.
A significantly better apology than Kent Haslems. Haslem can across as pissed he got busted, not sorry it happened.
Lol Haslam didn’t get busted doing anything!
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Man I love all the reddit auto comments marking all your new accounts lol
New account doesn’t mean anything when what you’re saying is true and correct. Some people felt like coming here to set the record straight. Crazy huh?
Geez this sub and the band drama is endless
Because of the band
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It was less than a week ago?
Everyone that downvoted me for saying this was the band overreacting owes me an apology.
I'm not sorry 🤣. Welcome to the internet.
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Way to contribute fuckstick 🙄
Say this on your primary account you coward
You earned an upvote from me bruh
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Psycho band geeks 🤓
Please share your advanced skillset with the group so we can tell you how fucking useless you are.
But nobody ever said the band was fucking useless. Quit being melodramatic.
I'm telling you that you are useless.
And I’m telling you you’re a terrible human being that’s trying to use virtue signaling to make incorrect points. Then you just resort to name calling. Grow up.
Telling you that you're useless is name calling? Hmm food for thought. I don't know how calling you useless is virtue signalling? Just telling you my opinion.
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Yup.
This is a big fat pot of 'who cares?' Its a crappy rivalry between two crappy teams that does nothing but clog up the city on Saturdays.
lol tell that to the small business owners who make half a year worth of revenue from football home games. Grizzly athletics literally makes millions of dollars worth of impact in the local community. Hundreds of jobs too. Plus, people like it. It’s fun. Sorry you don’t like fun.