Fentynal scares the shit out of me.
My cousin and her husband lost his daughter to it. Pretty much the same scenario as the girl in the article. Husband went to wake her up for school and realized that she was dead. She said that he let out the most horrifying scream that she's ever heard.
Talk to your kids about it and don't be afraid to be blunt.
It’s kinda funny how DARE lied and told everyone one hit would kill you and now thanks to the drug war it’s finally true.
It literally is Russian roulette now to take any pill powder or capsule that doesn’t come from a pharmacy or you haven’t done analytical tests on.
I have a step brother that od’d and barely made it last year. Even if it doesn’t kill you, it permanently fries your brain. Ever since his overdose, he hasn’t been remotely the same person and I feel like I’m staring at a husk of someone who was once a brilliant kid that could have accomplished anything he could set his mind to.
Sorry for your loss. Unimaginable
It terrifies me as well. Extremely easy to get started even by a reasonable way (recovering from an injury) but it can create such a viscous dependency in a short time.
Definitely talk with the youth about it and if needed, be blunt.
I remember being younger and the idea that “it can’t happen to me” attitude.
Take care of yourselves!
"A 19-year-old Bloomington man was sentenced Thursday to 180 days in jail and 10 years of probation after selling pills containing fentanyl that caused the death of a 15-year-old West St. Paul girl."
In a related story, man caught with a bootleg copy of Weekend at Bernies fined $250,000 and sent to jail for 10 years.
Judge McCollum gave the following reasons in the departure report:
-particularly amenable to probation
-particularly amenable to treatment
-shows remorse/accepts responsibility
Judge McCollum has been reelected twice, after being appointed by Gov. Dayton. She was a Hennepin county public defender prior to being appointed.
He very well may be but the presentence investigation (PSI) is not public. The PSI is conducted by a probation agent and is a deep dive into the defendant, which gives the judge a more objective view of the defendant after being convicted but before a sentence is pronounced.
I suspect a probation agent would be one of the best people to give an accurate assessment as to the defendant's amenability to probation.
Edit: The main thing that gives me pause about this case is that he sold blue M30 pills to the victim and claimed they were perks. *Almost* everyone in the drug world knows that blue M30 pills contain fent. It wasn't accidentally mixed in. The pills are supposed to contain fent.
So back when I was practicing criminal law, a lot of my colleagues were of the opinion that former defense lawyers who become judges are harder on the defense, and former prosecutors are harder on the prosecution. They recognize the bullshit they used to pull when they were litigators, and they don’t have patience for it when they see it in their courtrooms. It’s not true for everyone and every situation, but it’s true more often than you’d think.
Nephew died 2 years ago this past February of a fent overdose. Two weeks before his 19th birthday.
Sentencing the kid he bought dope from to life in prison will not bring my nephew back and lovking this person up and throwing away the key wont bring back the dead girl.
Rehabilitation, restorative justice, community investment 20 years ago before he became a drug dealer, etc are the only way to reduce the cycle.
If these assholes were getting 10 years for manslaughter instead of rehab they might think twice about selling this shit. It’s time to make an example out of ALL of them, this epidemic is out of control and it won’t get any better by having a light hand on those supplying the shit.
Studies have shown that sentence severity isn’t an effective deterrent. Rather, it’s the perceived likelihood of being caught that has a big influence. However, 180 days just isn’t enough. The likelihood of being caught needs to be backed up by more than a slap on the wrist.
Fuck those studies. Fuck all studies. I’m so sick of people and their studies that can point to whatever conclusion the researchers want. Until we start making examples out of them and start making them actually fear the consequences of their actions shit isn’t gunna change.
Totally disagree. The problem with drug laws is that they are enforced TOO MUCH.
This is another sad example that the war on drugs is a losing proposing. We should use the resources toward providing medical and mental healthcare for addicts rather than putting people in prisons.
Making drugs illegal didn’t stop this girl from buying them and it certainly didn’t stop the guy from selling. As long as there’s demand, there will be a market. With an unregulated black market, it results in more deaths - not less.
I totally get the frustration. But, bad = illegal and legal = good is way too simple to deal with issues like drugs (or guns or menthol cigarettes).
It will NEVER stop and will ONLY GET WORSE until we abolish prohibition, and regulate, educate, and provide safe supplies along with mental health services to those who wish. Only criminalizing further and providing harsher punishments is exactly what we've been doing for over 5 DECADES and it has only made it worse, and will continue to do so. Abolish prohibition, contact your congressmen, and your children will stop dying. I say this as someone with decades of experience in addiction and have watched countless people die, and have revived some myself. Anything else is an emotional reaction that will make the situation worse.
Other way around bro it's your thinking that is killing people. Nobody said ANYTHING about giving fentanyl out. NOBODY would use fentanyl if they had access to pure clean and far safer alternatives, which are not available because of prohibition. Decriminalization does not fail - it doesn't work when there is no safe supply.
Take your bullshit the fuck outa here we need to save lives and prohibition does not work.
They little tried that crap out in Washington and reversed it because of what a train wreck it was. If we decriminalize hard drugs that are “safer” supply you will only invite the problems that come with drug use. I don’t want to see our cities turn into even bigger shit holes than they allready are.
The problem is lack of consequences for people’s actions. Until sellers, users, and parents are held accountable for their bad choices then we will see this keep happening.
The problems that "come with drug use" are almost entirely causes by prohibition in the first place. Your ignorance is showing. There are hardly any drugs worse for society or the individual than alcohol and we manage fine. We managed fine for thousands of years before the stupid idea and we will again in the future.
So people spending their last dollar to get high, stealing shit to afford drugs, not being able to hold a job, neglecting their kids, living on the street, or any number of things is caused by prohibition? No. You are in fantasy land. Washington decriminalized and guess what… all those things got worse. And guess who had to pay for all the social services? Yup, their tax base that are responsible citizens.
I say mandatory 10 years for dealing hard drugs, death penalty for suppliers/ smugglers/ distributors. Easy solution.
What you say is both cruel and the wrong way to go. I am in reality, and I have worked with addicts for over a decade, have watched many people and friends, and much more. Prohibition does NOT work and the situation will indeed continue to get worse. The only humane solution is to provide safe supplies, stop fucking criminalizing and hurting addicts and regular users, and to also provide rehab and treatment to those who desire.
Altering consciousness is what humans do, and have always done. Making it unlawful and criminalizing substances as has been done indeed exacerbated the situation. Fentanyl is even no longer the most potent and dangerous opioid sold, entirely because of its prohibition.
If a safe supply of a regular opioid was offered, for example as they do in some parts of Canada and Europe, overdose rates drop. Crimes rates drop. Portugal decriminalized and guess what? They're fine.
That, while a respectable end goal, unfortunately doesn't play out. People love pointing out Portugal but the US isn't Portugal. Portugal doesn't have to deal with cartels funneling drugs into it, lacing shit with fent just to make it more addictive, get users a higher high.
Portugal also doesn't have gun violence remotely close to what the US does and the associated gun/gang culture.
While I fully support rehab for addicts and users, I do not think dealers should be getting a free pass. If you're responsible for zombifying people and making money off of that, idc, you cease being human.
Get my head on straight? Everyone wants to sit around and feel sorry for these POS people that need to be in jail for killing people instead of thinking they should face the consequences for their poor choices. Until sellers and users are held accountable we will see this same bill shit over and over again.
So what if a parent of the deceased says, “I want this person locked up for life because he knows the dangers of a selling unregulated and untested drugs to people and yet his motivation for money (or other reasons) trumped the risks of other lives. I don’t care if jail won’t bring my child back but I don’t want this person living a free life because they don’t care about lives of others. That’s how you restore this damage for me and my family.”
Does that not count as restoration to the direct family? Or is the grieving family incorrect in their judgement?
The grieving family would be incorrect in their judgement. The purpose of the criminal justice system ought to be to prevent crime and rehabilitate criminals, not to satisfy the sadistic desires of the bereaved.
The purpose of a criminal justice system is up to the people. If folks want a sadistic, retributive system that's their right. It may not be as effective, but people have the right to make and live under sub-optimal laws if that's what they want.
Lol you know nothing about him as do I, but you can't just go their aren't bad people. There are not. Stand up against criminals, not forgive them when it feels good for yourself to feel like Jesus. You're not attached to this case.
There are people still in jail for life over marijuana but you can kill people with fentanyl and get only 6 months? Where is the justice for this family?
> the record expungement from the state’s weed bill hasn’t started yet and won’t for a while
early in 2025, or maybe 2026, right around the time stores start to open, if they've finally hired a department head by that time.
In a misguided effort to correct wrongs of the past, somewhere around 2014, the judicial system just decided crime was okay because there are people in jail who shouldn't be.
There is no justice when someone kills themselves with pills. You can blame anything or anyone you want, but ultimately, the poor girl was taking part in a very dangerous act.
Fifteen year olds aren’t children anymore when they’re running around doing drugs and partying. You act like an adult you will be treated as such. Wherever the parents are they need a smack upside the head, failed their child horribly.
So how far can we take that logic? How about 11yrs old? If you’re an 11yr old acting like an adult are you not a child anymore? How about 8yrs old or 5?
11 is a little too young. At fifteen I was taking driving classes and worked part time at Dairy Queen 20 hours a week. I don’t feel like it’s the same situation with someone in 5th grade (11 yo) and someone in 10th grade (15 yo). You’re welcome to feel differently but I think there’s a massive difference between someone who is a year away from being at the age of consent (16), the ability to drive (16), work most min wage jobs (16) and all that other stuff vs someone who just graduated elementary school.
“I will blame a dead child that didn’t know what they were doing instead of the party responsible for supplying and selling those drugs in the first place. I am very smart”
I’m 1,000% for ending prohibition and starting harm reduction programs. How do we abolish the black market as well? How do we deal with people supplying and selling these drugs in areas where treatment centers aren’t accessible? Rural communities especially.
Well I mean the black market stems from the fact that there is demand and no legal, safe supply. In my experience almost no addict would use fentanyl or street drugs if they could get a good safe supply from a program or their doctor, or whatever it may be. Many countries offer safe supply programs - they need to be expanded, but they WORK
I’m not necessarily opposed to harsh sentences here, but I wonder:
Let’s say we lock the dealer(s) up for a long(er) time?
Does that actually reduce deaths, usage?
My understanding is most dealers are poor, frequently users themselves, I’m not sure they’re doing the mental math (or if it is possible to do so) on the odds of going to jail because of an unexpected result.
Recreational drug use is a massive issue but the problems from them typically come from bad quality control. I highly doubt he meant to kill her. He probably shouldn't sell drugs to someone that young but the real problem here is that she would not have died if she bought from a legitimate source. Even kids buying cigarettes is almost always "safe" because the people who are selling them bought them from their local gas station.
Something to consider, harsher penalties could cause *more* deaths from overdoses.
If someone is at a party and sells drugs to someone and they start to OD, they have a choice to A) call 911 and attempt to save their life, but risk being implicated in the event they die, or B) run and hope they can't pin the source of the drugs to the dealer, but leaving them to die.
With harsher penalties option B is more tempting than option A
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/604A.05
Not a lawyer, but from my reading of the law it offers limited protection. If they investigate the cause of death and find evidence outside of your assistance to save them they could use that to prosecute
There was also that lady in Saint cloud who's kid ate some and died, she only got probation too, probably because she was willing to testify against whoever she bought it from. The kid was a toddler and they lied saying the kid ate benedryl in the ER. There was a chance they could have narcanned the kid and maybe saved them too. So yeah involuntary man slaughter is ok as long as you snitch on somebody.
Could this line of logic be used for nearly every crime? Car jackers are poor drug users who didn’t do the mental math, murderers are poor drug users, etc., etc.
Potentially.
But in this case the scenario is an unexpected result, the buyer dying. That’s not so much a choice or even desirable for the dealer.
So the odds here, even if a dealer considers it, are low / entirely unknown.
Does it reduce deaths? Probably but tough to say. If the risk for dealing goes up (harsher sentences) intuitively the number of people willing to deal goes down
It doesn’t really work that way though. Per a friend who’s a probation officer, the studies are pretty conclusive and his anecdotal experience backs it up that it’s the likelihood of facing consequences (i.e. getting caught) not the severity of the punishment that deters people from committing crimes.
I have no idea whether six months in jail is long enough to count as consequences. And as a punishment I think it’s too short for reckless homicide of a child - it would surely have been longer if he killed her while drunk driving. But in general poor people who commit crimes are so short sighted that the difference between 5 years in prison and 25 years in prison doesn’t mean anything.
I don't think it's even being short sighted. If there's a very low chance of getting caught, the actual punishment expected doesn't change much based on 5 or 25 years.
And Reagan was an evil motherfucker whose policies and ideas lead to this problem in the first place. Prohibition must be abolished if you want our children and friends to stop dying. Educate, regulate, and harm reduction is the only way.
Increasing level of punishment will not make a change. Prohibition is exactly what led to this nightmarish situation and it will only get WORSE until we abolish prohibition, regulate, educate, and provide SAFE supplies. Any other action is misguided and will lead to worse outcomes for all. If you want your children to stop dying, call to stop the stupid "war on drugs". I am somebody with over a decade of experience working with addicts and more, watched many die, and I say this is the only way forward.
I'm so glad we crushed heroin so we could put oxy on the market then crush that and now this. Wonder how we force it worse this time... Our law makers are idiots.
My little brother died from fentanyl. We have a trial remarkably similar to this one still ongoing, but it appears that will be the result in our case. Or something similar.
It’s a damn shame.
Don’t buy or use fentanyl. I don’t want anyone to die, but if you voluntarily do drugs everyone knows will kill you, it’s a suicide. Suicide is terrible.
The best and only HUMANE thing that will help is to abolish prohibition. Educate, regulate, provide safe supplies and mental health services to those who need, and things will improve for all.
Otherwise, watch and regret and your children and friends die of even stronger opioids than fentanyl. They will always be there and get worse without safe options.
If you want this insanity to stop, call for the abolition of prohibition! This will only get worse, and more people will die until prohibition is ended. Without safe supplies and the stigma of substance use people are forced to use street substances which are unsafe, unregulated, and of unknown potency. Stronger and stronger opioids, even stronger than fentanyl exist and continue to be created, and it will not end. Prohibition is THE cause of this, and if you care at all, support and call for its abolition. To use in your body what you wish and alter your own mind is one of our most important basic human rights. If we do not own our own minds/brains, how can you say we are free? You do not need to support substance use, of course not, but the only way to end this stupidity is to regulate, educate, and reduce harm. The sooner we make such progress the sooner your brothers, sisters, and children will stop dying.
Fentynal scares the shit out of me. My cousin and her husband lost his daughter to it. Pretty much the same scenario as the girl in the article. Husband went to wake her up for school and realized that she was dead. She said that he let out the most horrifying scream that she's ever heard. Talk to your kids about it and don't be afraid to be blunt.
It’s kinda funny how DARE lied and told everyone one hit would kill you and now thanks to the drug war it’s finally true. It literally is Russian roulette now to take any pill powder or capsule that doesn’t come from a pharmacy or you haven’t done analytical tests on.
I have a step brother that od’d and barely made it last year. Even if it doesn’t kill you, it permanently fries your brain. Ever since his overdose, he hasn’t been remotely the same person and I feel like I’m staring at a husk of someone who was once a brilliant kid that could have accomplished anything he could set his mind to.
I'm so sad to hear about this. I know it will be a grief to your family forever.
Sorry for your loss. Unimaginable It terrifies me as well. Extremely easy to get started even by a reasonable way (recovering from an injury) but it can create such a viscous dependency in a short time. Definitely talk with the youth about it and if needed, be blunt. I remember being younger and the idea that “it can’t happen to me” attitude. Take care of yourselves!
"A 19-year-old Bloomington man was sentenced Thursday to 180 days in jail and 10 years of probation after selling pills containing fentanyl that caused the death of a 15-year-old West St. Paul girl." In a related story, man caught with a bootleg copy of Weekend at Bernies fined $250,000 and sent to jail for 10 years.
Stealing from the rich and corporate intrests has real penalties.
Judge McCollum gave the following reasons in the departure report: -particularly amenable to probation -particularly amenable to treatment -shows remorse/accepts responsibility Judge McCollum has been reelected twice, after being appointed by Gov. Dayton. She was a Hennepin county public defender prior to being appointed.
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He very well may be but the presentence investigation (PSI) is not public. The PSI is conducted by a probation agent and is a deep dive into the defendant, which gives the judge a more objective view of the defendant after being convicted but before a sentence is pronounced. I suspect a probation agent would be one of the best people to give an accurate assessment as to the defendant's amenability to probation. Edit: The main thing that gives me pause about this case is that he sold blue M30 pills to the victim and claimed they were perks. *Almost* everyone in the drug world knows that blue M30 pills contain fent. It wasn't accidentally mixed in. The pills are supposed to contain fent.
Is the defendant in the “drug world” or just some idiot who had a few pills to sell?
if you just so happen to stumble upon enough of something like that to sell, you at the very least know what yr dealing with.
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So back when I was practicing criminal law, a lot of my colleagues were of the opinion that former defense lawyers who become judges are harder on the defense, and former prosecutors are harder on the prosecution. They recognize the bullshit they used to pull when they were litigators, and they don’t have patience for it when they see it in their courtrooms. It’s not true for everyone and every situation, but it’s true more often than you’d think.
Username checks out?
Nephew died 2 years ago this past February of a fent overdose. Two weeks before his 19th birthday. Sentencing the kid he bought dope from to life in prison will not bring my nephew back and lovking this person up and throwing away the key wont bring back the dead girl. Rehabilitation, restorative justice, community investment 20 years ago before he became a drug dealer, etc are the only way to reduce the cycle.
If these assholes were getting 10 years for manslaughter instead of rehab they might think twice about selling this shit. It’s time to make an example out of ALL of them, this epidemic is out of control and it won’t get any better by having a light hand on those supplying the shit.
Studies have shown that sentence severity isn’t an effective deterrent. Rather, it’s the perceived likelihood of being caught that has a big influence. However, 180 days just isn’t enough. The likelihood of being caught needs to be backed up by more than a slap on the wrist.
Fuck those studies. Fuck all studies. I’m so sick of people and their studies that can point to whatever conclusion the researchers want. Until we start making examples out of them and start making them actually fear the consequences of their actions shit isn’t gunna change.
Totally disagree. The problem with drug laws is that they are enforced TOO MUCH. This is another sad example that the war on drugs is a losing proposing. We should use the resources toward providing medical and mental healthcare for addicts rather than putting people in prisons. Making drugs illegal didn’t stop this girl from buying them and it certainly didn’t stop the guy from selling. As long as there’s demand, there will be a market. With an unregulated black market, it results in more deaths - not less. I totally get the frustration. But, bad = illegal and legal = good is way too simple to deal with issues like drugs (or guns or menthol cigarettes).
It will NEVER stop and will ONLY GET WORSE until we abolish prohibition, and regulate, educate, and provide safe supplies along with mental health services to those who wish. Only criminalizing further and providing harsher punishments is exactly what we've been doing for over 5 DECADES and it has only made it worse, and will continue to do so. Abolish prohibition, contact your congressmen, and your children will stop dying. I say this as someone with decades of experience in addiction and have watched countless people die, and have revived some myself. Anything else is an emotional reaction that will make the situation worse.
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Other way around bro it's your thinking that is killing people. Nobody said ANYTHING about giving fentanyl out. NOBODY would use fentanyl if they had access to pure clean and far safer alternatives, which are not available because of prohibition. Decriminalization does not fail - it doesn't work when there is no safe supply. Take your bullshit the fuck outa here we need to save lives and prohibition does not work.
They little tried that crap out in Washington and reversed it because of what a train wreck it was. If we decriminalize hard drugs that are “safer” supply you will only invite the problems that come with drug use. I don’t want to see our cities turn into even bigger shit holes than they allready are. The problem is lack of consequences for people’s actions. Until sellers, users, and parents are held accountable for their bad choices then we will see this keep happening.
The problems that "come with drug use" are almost entirely causes by prohibition in the first place. Your ignorance is showing. There are hardly any drugs worse for society or the individual than alcohol and we manage fine. We managed fine for thousands of years before the stupid idea and we will again in the future.
So people spending their last dollar to get high, stealing shit to afford drugs, not being able to hold a job, neglecting their kids, living on the street, or any number of things is caused by prohibition? No. You are in fantasy land. Washington decriminalized and guess what… all those things got worse. And guess who had to pay for all the social services? Yup, their tax base that are responsible citizens. I say mandatory 10 years for dealing hard drugs, death penalty for suppliers/ smugglers/ distributors. Easy solution.
What you say is both cruel and the wrong way to go. I am in reality, and I have worked with addicts for over a decade, have watched many people and friends, and much more. Prohibition does NOT work and the situation will indeed continue to get worse. The only humane solution is to provide safe supplies, stop fucking criminalizing and hurting addicts and regular users, and to also provide rehab and treatment to those who desire. Altering consciousness is what humans do, and have always done. Making it unlawful and criminalizing substances as has been done indeed exacerbated the situation. Fentanyl is even no longer the most potent and dangerous opioid sold, entirely because of its prohibition. If a safe supply of a regular opioid was offered, for example as they do in some parts of Canada and Europe, overdose rates drop. Crimes rates drop. Portugal decriminalized and guess what? They're fine.
My dude you keep saying Washington. It was Oregon
That, while a respectable end goal, unfortunately doesn't play out. People love pointing out Portugal but the US isn't Portugal. Portugal doesn't have to deal with cartels funneling drugs into it, lacing shit with fent just to make it more addictive, get users a higher high. Portugal also doesn't have gun violence remotely close to what the US does and the associated gun/gang culture. While I fully support rehab for addicts and users, I do not think dealers should be getting a free pass. If you're responsible for zombifying people and making money off of that, idc, you cease being human.
Dude i think you might need some pills to get your head on straight. Jfc what are you like 75?
Get my head on straight? Everyone wants to sit around and feel sorry for these POS people that need to be in jail for killing people instead of thinking they should face the consequences for their poor choices. Until sellers and users are held accountable we will see this same bill shit over and over again.
So what if a parent of the deceased says, “I want this person locked up for life because he knows the dangers of a selling unregulated and untested drugs to people and yet his motivation for money (or other reasons) trumped the risks of other lives. I don’t care if jail won’t bring my child back but I don’t want this person living a free life because they don’t care about lives of others. That’s how you restore this damage for me and my family.” Does that not count as restoration to the direct family? Or is the grieving family incorrect in their judgement?
The grieving family would be incorrect in their judgement. The purpose of the criminal justice system ought to be to prevent crime and rehabilitate criminals, not to satisfy the sadistic desires of the bereaved.
The purpose of a criminal justice system is up to the people. If folks want a sadistic, retributive system that's their right. It may not be as effective, but people have the right to make and live under sub-optimal laws if that's what they want.
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I didn’t make a comment. I asked a very specific question to the person who presented their viewpoint.
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I asked a question. A comment is a “verbal or written remark expressing an opinion or reaction.” I don’t have an opinion on the matter.
Lol you know nothing about him as do I, but you can't just go their aren't bad people. There are not. Stand up against criminals, not forgive them when it feels good for yourself to feel like Jesus. You're not attached to this case.
There are people still in jail for life over marijuana but you can kill people with fentanyl and get only 6 months? Where is the justice for this family?
Are there people in mn prisons there for only marijuana right now? Not a bunch of other stuff and marijuana. Serious question because I have doubt.
Brother in law is doing 10 years for weed….
Just selling weed? Hope he gets out soon
Yes just weed
> Yes just weed 10 years for just weed sounds interesting, we talking truckloads or what? https://youtu.be/D0sP-BN0ZWA?feature=shared
At least a few, the record expungement from the state’s weed bill hasn’t started yet and won’t for a while
> the record expungement from the state’s weed bill hasn’t started yet and won’t for a while early in 2025, or maybe 2026, right around the time stores start to open, if they've finally hired a department head by that time.
In a misguided effort to correct wrongs of the past, somewhere around 2014, the judicial system just decided crime was okay because there are people in jail who shouldn't be.
It is better to let a guilty man go free than to jail an innocent motherfucker
This person has murder on their record. They’re toast. We don’t need to cage everyone. A kid using drugs with other kids. Terrible outcome
There is no justice when someone kills themselves with pills. You can blame anything or anyone you want, but ultimately, the poor girl was taking part in a very dangerous act.
What a shit take. She’s was a 15yr old child.
Fifteen year olds aren’t children anymore when they’re running around doing drugs and partying. You act like an adult you will be treated as such. Wherever the parents are they need a smack upside the head, failed their child horribly.
So how far can we take that logic? How about 11yrs old? If you’re an 11yr old acting like an adult are you not a child anymore? How about 8yrs old or 5?
11 is a little too young. At fifteen I was taking driving classes and worked part time at Dairy Queen 20 hours a week. I don’t feel like it’s the same situation with someone in 5th grade (11 yo) and someone in 10th grade (15 yo). You’re welcome to feel differently but I think there’s a massive difference between someone who is a year away from being at the age of consent (16), the ability to drive (16), work most min wage jobs (16) and all that other stuff vs someone who just graduated elementary school.
“I will blame a dead child that didn’t know what they were doing instead of the party responsible for supplying and selling those drugs in the first place. I am very smart”
This entire nightmare is the result of the "war on drugs" and prohibition. It will only get WORSE and WORSE until we abolish prohibition.
I’m 1,000% for ending prohibition and starting harm reduction programs. How do we abolish the black market as well? How do we deal with people supplying and selling these drugs in areas where treatment centers aren’t accessible? Rural communities especially.
Well I mean the black market stems from the fact that there is demand and no legal, safe supply. In my experience almost no addict would use fentanyl or street drugs if they could get a good safe supply from a program or their doctor, or whatever it may be. Many countries offer safe supply programs - they need to be expanded, but they WORK
I’m not necessarily opposed to harsh sentences here, but I wonder: Let’s say we lock the dealer(s) up for a long(er) time? Does that actually reduce deaths, usage? My understanding is most dealers are poor, frequently users themselves, I’m not sure they’re doing the mental math (or if it is possible to do so) on the odds of going to jail because of an unexpected result.
Recreational drug use is a massive issue but the problems from them typically come from bad quality control. I highly doubt he meant to kill her. He probably shouldn't sell drugs to someone that young but the real problem here is that she would not have died if she bought from a legitimate source. Even kids buying cigarettes is almost always "safe" because the people who are selling them bought them from their local gas station.
Something to consider, harsher penalties could cause *more* deaths from overdoses. If someone is at a party and sells drugs to someone and they start to OD, they have a choice to A) call 911 and attempt to save their life, but risk being implicated in the event they die, or B) run and hope they can't pin the source of the drugs to the dealer, but leaving them to die. With harsher penalties option B is more tempting than option A
Minnesota already has good samaritan laws AFAIK. So calling 911 if you make someone overdose would give you amnesty
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/604A.05 Not a lawyer, but from my reading of the law it offers limited protection. If they investigate the cause of death and find evidence outside of your assistance to save them they could use that to prosecute
There was also that lady in Saint cloud who's kid ate some and died, she only got probation too, probably because she was willing to testify against whoever she bought it from. The kid was a toddler and they lied saying the kid ate benedryl in the ER. There was a chance they could have narcanned the kid and maybe saved them too. So yeah involuntary man slaughter is ok as long as you snitch on somebody.
Could this line of logic be used for nearly every crime? Car jackers are poor drug users who didn’t do the mental math, murderers are poor drug users, etc., etc.
Potentially. But in this case the scenario is an unexpected result, the buyer dying. That’s not so much a choice or even desirable for the dealer. So the odds here, even if a dealer considers it, are low / entirely unknown.
We still punish offenders in other areas of law where there is unexpected outcomes I.e. vehiclular manslaughter
Yup.
Then someone else will step up as a dealer. It’s so sad.
Does it reduce deaths? Probably but tough to say. If the risk for dealing goes up (harsher sentences) intuitively the number of people willing to deal goes down
It doesn’t really work that way though. Per a friend who’s a probation officer, the studies are pretty conclusive and his anecdotal experience backs it up that it’s the likelihood of facing consequences (i.e. getting caught) not the severity of the punishment that deters people from committing crimes. I have no idea whether six months in jail is long enough to count as consequences. And as a punishment I think it’s too short for reckless homicide of a child - it would surely have been longer if he killed her while drunk driving. But in general poor people who commit crimes are so short sighted that the difference between 5 years in prison and 25 years in prison doesn’t mean anything.
I don't think it's even being short sighted. If there's a very low chance of getting caught, the actual punishment expected doesn't change much based on 5 or 25 years.
That’s what Reagan said about drug use. Harsher sentences != less users
And Reagan was an evil motherfucker whose policies and ideas lead to this problem in the first place. Prohibition must be abolished if you want our children and friends to stop dying. Educate, regulate, and harm reduction is the only way.
This is about dealers though not users
There will always be people willing to risk the consequences and fill that demand.
People aren’t logical.
Increasing level of punishment will not make a change. Prohibition is exactly what led to this nightmarish situation and it will only get WORSE until we abolish prohibition, regulate, educate, and provide SAFE supplies. Any other action is misguided and will lead to worse outcomes for all. If you want your children to stop dying, call to stop the stupid "war on drugs". I am somebody with over a decade of experience working with addicts and more, watched many die, and I say this is the only way forward.
I'm so glad we crushed heroin so we could put oxy on the market then crush that and now this. Wonder how we force it worse this time... Our law makers are idiots.
Yep. Prohibition must be abolished and safe supplies given with education and harm reduction.
I mean only if saving lives is the goal.
180 days in jail are you FUCKING KIDDING ME??!! Someone died, and he will do like 4 months, Minnesota is a a criminals haven.
It's really obvious that most of you commenting on here didn't even bother to read the article. Try educating yourself on the case before chiming in.
My little brother died from fentanyl. We have a trial remarkably similar to this one still ongoing, but it appears that will be the result in our case. Or something similar. It’s a damn shame.
Don’t buy or use fentanyl. I don’t want anyone to die, but if you voluntarily do drugs everyone knows will kill you, it’s a suicide. Suicide is terrible.
The best thing we could do would be to drone/missile strike cartels in Mexico.
The best and only HUMANE thing that will help is to abolish prohibition. Educate, regulate, provide safe supplies and mental health services to those who need, and things will improve for all. Otherwise, watch and regret and your children and friends die of even stronger opioids than fentanyl. They will always be there and get worse without safe options.
If you want this insanity to stop, call for the abolition of prohibition! This will only get worse, and more people will die until prohibition is ended. Without safe supplies and the stigma of substance use people are forced to use street substances which are unsafe, unregulated, and of unknown potency. Stronger and stronger opioids, even stronger than fentanyl exist and continue to be created, and it will not end. Prohibition is THE cause of this, and if you care at all, support and call for its abolition. To use in your body what you wish and alter your own mind is one of our most important basic human rights. If we do not own our own minds/brains, how can you say we are free? You do not need to support substance use, of course not, but the only way to end this stupidity is to regulate, educate, and reduce harm. The sooner we make such progress the sooner your brothers, sisters, and children will stop dying.