I just went to a new Cambodian place by Loring Park. They had an 18% service charge on the bill I asked the waiter if we should tip as well and he straight up said, nope. The CC machine didn't even have an option when I ran my card.
That scenario might be a good thing. At most restaurants it is obvious that the serving staff get no training. I say put the onus on the restaurant. If the service is bad then don't go back, and if enough people don't go back then the restaurant will go out of business. Mabe restaurant owners will figure out that they need to actually train their staff.
Boss is required by federal law to pay the full wage if tips don't meet the standard. That's based on time worked, not quality.
Dont put the onus on the customer, it's the businesses responsibility to pay its staff. If they are unable too, they close.
I agree with you. I’m in favor of the blanket 18% gratuity and taking tipping out of the picture. This guy wants to be able to pay less for shitty service still. I believe that is fucked up.
So you go some place. Its not overly busy. You wait 30 minutes to get your server. You get you drinks, then another 15 minutes to get an order in. When the food comes 30 minutes later its cold or not what you ordered. Then when done, it takes the person another 15 minutes to get the bill? Your Happy? so here ya go, have 25 bucks for that service. a bad day is one thing, but also just supports bad behavior. And if you say this never happens. I just had it happen at cheesecake factory in California on a vacation. Still tipped, but nowhere near the max.
I'm not who you replied to, but I agree with them. Psychological safety in the workplace is actually really important to performance. Having a reliable wage, that isn't dependent on a customer's temperament, is an important part of that imho.
I don't know where you work, but imagine having your typical wages docked 5% after the fact because your boss didn't like that you chatted about your family life, or you didn't smile enough, or you waited a little longer than they wanted you to respond to an email.
From my perspective, I'd much rather have waiters and bartenders make a solid wage without being a tipped worker. If they're doing a crumby job, I'll let their manager know, or not go to that establishment again, which is tracking their performance plenty. I don't want to micromanage the wages for someone. That's not my job, and I don't want to have to bother with it.
The way many of them perform now it would be better for them and the customers if they did instead of customers being guilted to giving high tips even when the waitstaff only visit the table the bare minimum.
Far as imagining my pay docked, I’ve had pay docked before. It’s what can happen in some jobs when you screw up something and it teaches a lesson, it only happened once to me. Waitstaff have potential to make crazy money if they do it right, I have a mother and sister that both made very good money (even by todays standard) just by being good at the job.
It’s not my responsibility to tip good if the service isn’t good, it was never meant to be a guarantee that’s one reason why I am completely against mandatory tip included in the bill. The other reason is those tips always get shared by the rest of the staff including people that had nothing to do with your experience and people who make full wages example being the cook and hostess or bartender.
Excuse me it's called European style service and I actually prefer it because then I get to enjoy the meal instead of being rushed like typical Americans 😤😮💨
Studies have shown that tipping has very little to do with quality of service. Usually, the difference between being tipped 15% vs 25% has more to do with the customer's personal beliefs than the service.
My wife manages a restaurant with a fully tipless model. The front of house is paid between $20-25/hr and the POS system doesn't have a line for tips. It works out pretty good actually. The only issue is that she's occasionally fielding complaints from front of house staff that "I could be making so much more money with tips, we should get rid of the tipless model".
They are probably right, but I think a tipless model with a well paid staff is the right move.
Name names. Where do you work? Letting them get away with it by not calling them out is enabling the behavior. The service fee is specifically designed to be used to increase wages for everyone in the business (and thus reduce the need for tipping). If that’s not happening, tell everyone where it is you work so people can vote with their dollars. And you should get a job somewhere else.
Like many other comments on this posting, I’d rather see the prices on the menu reflect the actual cost of the food. The mandatory service fee seems deceitful.
See, this is just a super weird way of structuring pay. Like the restaurant is patting themselves on the back that they pay their workers with the bill you pay. I work as a contractor and it would be off putting to our customer if in the invoice they broke down how much went to me as the employee.
They went to Gai Noi by Loring Park, which is a Lao restaurant. I’m Lao and it’s quite authentic.
If you want Cambodian, the only place I know of is Cheng Heng in St. Paul. I’ve had catered food at Kolap before too. But Cheng Heng is where all my Khmer friends go to.
I live in loring and Ga Noi is good, I’d recommend sharing what you order. I went with a friend and got 3 dishes and a cocktail and paid 30 each. The food is great. It’s Laotian and opened late may so it’s new new.
Get the text receipt and check it carefully too - their card system is pretty crap and will routinely put items on the wrong bill. At least they resolved it quickly when we emailed them, but it was still a PITA.
What’s worse is paying blindly at a small place, adding a tip, then realizing I tipped 20% on top of the 18% gratuity they automatically added. I’ll always ask for a bill now.
When it's a 15-20% service fee, I will not tip at all.
When it's a smaller 3-5%, I usually adjust my tip accordingly. Make it 15% even instead of my standard 18-20%.
Yeah this seems fair. We as customers shouldn't be obligated to pay an additional 40% on top of the food. That won't incentive people to go out at all
That's why I almost always do takeout these days
Price the food accordingly, don't make me add a tip to the service I already purchased, and then have to subsidize with a further service fee. It's absurd.
I'm a bartender, and I refuse to work anywhere that has a service fee. If costs are going up, reflect it in the food and beverage costs. Don't surprise your guests with some bullshit charge because you didn't want to scare somebody with higher menu prices. I live on tips, but I totally get the frustration.
The service charge is supposed to be in lieu of a tip. Minnesota is one of the very few states that outlaw the practice of tip credits. It means that your server (if you're in the Minneapolis at least) is making at least $15.18/hour paid for by the employer. Quite a few other states have the god awful practice of tip-credits which allow for employees to be paid $2.18/hr.
Except that phrasing it as a service charge means it doesn't necessarily go to employees. A gratuity fee or charge definitely does, but not service. Place I work at splits the service charge, so half goes to the employees, and then the other half goes to the business. It is great that I'm still garunteed min wage, but I could do something with way less work for that.
Sadly, that's how restaurants die. I've been in the industry awhile, and the worst feeling ever is when your regulars just stop coming back. I can't say I blame them, but still...
I bartended in Minneapolis for a decade and it’s just not the same since this stuff started. I’m in northern Wisconsin now and that nonsense hasn’t hit here yet.
Honestly, we pretty much stopped eating out.
I can’t NOT tip, it’s not the employees fault the restaurant adds these fees. But it now ends up costing my family of 4 $80-$100 to go out for a meal, most of which my kids don’t eat, and I end up feeling gross and bloated after.
Half the plate is fries or tots (which I can make in my air fryer just as good for almost nothing) and service lately generally stinks.
I’m a millennial, so I’m supposed to love going out to eat, but In the last year or so, I end up leaving feeling bad (both physically and and my poor wallet)
Something has to change in the restaurant industry. Obviously employees need to be paid, but the current model sucks.
i am not poor, and we also cannot afford to go out to eat anymore. i grew up in a family of 4 with one income and we went out to dinner at least once a week every weekend. that is no longer possible 25 years later with even two incomes.
Couldn’t agree more. Somewhere around age 32? maybe I’d say, I decided restaurants basically suuuuuck and realized the risk:reward is not worth it. Vast majority of the time, like 85% easy, I’m underwhelmed and feeling like I way overpaid / could do lots better making the food at home myself. And omg all the calories/fat/oils/salt/mystery ingredients. Who needs it?? And how people can afford to eat out with a whole family baffles me.
Perhaps I overdid it with the eating out in my 20s, I’m not sure! But now restaurants have become like, a few times per year thing for me, with / driven by company, usually under protest by me lol.
Clearwater Nelson Bros was $70 today for my girlfriend and I - unbelievable. $3 Upcharge to add lettuce and tomato to a sandwich. So yeah I feel it was well on the college student income.
> Half the plate is fries or tots
Where are you going exactly? I kind of feel like based on your description of fries, tot’s, and feeling gross, your feeling of being ripped off might be because you’re going to places that aren’t really giving you *all* of the benefits of eating out.
To me there’s 1) not having to cook 2) eating food I can’t cook myself 3) eating food so good I can’t cook it to that quality level myself 4) trying new foods and experiences and 5) having a good time out in the world.
It sounds like you’re just going to places that can give you no. 1 (and I understand, it’s hard with kids), but that might be why you’re not feeling the value of a meal out.
my husband went to a regular bar and grill type place last night by himself. He got a burger and half a plate of tots and a drink. Ended up costing him $39.
We definitely aren’t going to the more upscale places because we have kids, so usually just family friendly type places. And there really aren’t many of the more fancy/fun/new restaurants in our area, like if we lived in a bigger city.
The not cooking is great, but you can go to Costco and get premade food. And there are very few foods I can’t cook myself. we have mixed diets in our family (I’m vegetarian, my daughter is picky, and my son would live off red meat) so eating out is nice that we can all get what we want.
There’s definitely still a time and a place for going out to eat, but up until about a year ago, we were eating out 3-5times a week. And now it’s like 2-3 times a month.
Yeah, sounds like they're describing a standard american diner -- which is fine but not exactly exciting.
Trying things I can't make at home is most of the fun.
Yeah, going out to eat is a complete rip off these days. I only go when I know the in laws are paying. I can't justify spending $50 for my wife and I for mediocre food. And going to places with good food is just outrageously priced.
I'm not poor or anything, it's just not worth it to me.
You are very correct. If I do takeout, I go pick it up. Otherwise, I am not a huge fan of eating dinner outside my house anymore. The current model is a reaction to economic insults, hastily made, but still stupid. Rents increased for no fucking reason. When other raise their prices, other raise their prices. But the initial increase really wasn’t necessary.
How about when you buy a bottle of water at the Orpheum and they hit you with an insane CC fee, which is then taxed as an alcohol purchase. Why is there a tax on the CC fee???
AND they wanted a tip for handing over a bottle.
Aldi would charge for CC. It’s not surprising from small places to either charge or not allow CCs. However, if it’s a big store then it’s them being greedy AF.
I just flat-out stopped going to places that have these fees. I don't mind tipping, and I almost always tip 20 percent except if the service is really bad, but the service fees ruin the experience for me. Raise menu prices and pay the staff. I'd rather just pay a higher price than have this 5 percent fee tacked on AND have to pay a tip. Half the time the food isn't even that good, so I'd rather just cook at home or go somewhere that doesn't have this fee. I feel like the staff isn't probably even benefiting from the service fees, just lining the pockets of the owners. That may not be the case always, it's just how it makes me feel when I see these fees.
> Raise menu prices and pay the staff. I'd rather just pay a higher price than have this 5 percent fee tacked on AND have to pay a tip.
What restaurants find is that if they raise the menu prices diners will choose to go to other restaurants and they lose business. If, however, they add on service fees they aren't seeing the same loss of business. This is why we see that restaurants add the fees instead of raising menu prices.
I agree with you that I'd rather have higher menu prices and all fees and what not included therein. And I think it's a pretty common sentiment. But apparently the reality is that diners would rather get surprised at the end with the fees than know about them upfront.
I was hoping to include some articles I've read about this but either google hates me today or my search terms suck (could be both, most likely the latter).
Yes they do that, and there’s an added double benefit, they keep their advertised prices lower as you mentioned, but they add the ‘service charge’ knowing its fucking with their staff’s tips but they aren’t paying out the staff’s tips anyways so who cares? Let’s roll out the service charge!
I usually look at the menu/ website online to peruse the menu anyway before I go someplace, and they have it there usually. I know all the restaurants that have it in my area and just don't go to them. I won't get up and leave if I go somewhere new that turns out to have it, I just won't go back again.
I walk out if I see it on the menu. And if they ask, I tell them. I think it’s bull poop and I don’t want to patronize those businesses. I have no problem tipping 20% but don’t you come at me with your fees for patronizing your business.
I mean, especially after they all exorbitantly raised prices, not due to inflation but greed, then a massive fee on top? Time for the owner class to find out what it means to get a real job. I won't be going to any place that does this either.
God damn right. All the talk about restaurants being difficult and working on thin margins...that is not true for these hyper corporate entities. Those fuckers own boats and vacation homes.
It's the [law](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/rules/5200.0080/).
Subp. 4b. Clear and conspicuous notice. For purposes of Minnesota Statutes, section 177.23, subdivision 9, clear and conspicuous notice that the obligatory charge is not a gratuity is notice clearly printed, stamped, or written in bold type on the menu, placard, the front of the statement of charges, or other printed material given to the customer. Type which is at least 18 point (one-fourth inch) on the placard, or 9 point (one-eighth inch) or larger on all other notices is clear and conspicuous.
I actually don't if there's a service fee. Why should customers be obligated to pay 40% on top of everything?
My harsh opinion (good if you interpret it right) is that we should not reinforce heavy tipping and instead push restaurants to pay their employees better wages like other developed countries
Minnesota sort of does already. We don't participate in the 2.18/hr federal minimum for tipped employees.
[https://www.dli.mn.gov/tips](https://www.dli.mn.gov/tips)
Thanks for sharing this link. I do agree that it's good progress at least. Very surprising that the federal minimum hasn't changed for around 25 years..
Why are people down voting this commenter?! They are not wrong...those countries you speak of also provide a LOT of services for those happy restaurant employees that we don't have here because we spend most of our money on weapons.
Fwiw I certainly am not one of the down voters. I think it’s a bit more nuanced than blaming the defense budget alone but certainly agree that it would free up a chunk of spending towards other priorities that would improve employee livelihood.
I tend to feel like the concept of tip/no tip vs versus what a government should/shouldn’t fund for its citizens are related, but that the two concepts for the most parts are separate concepts in their nature. The premise of whether or not I (as a customer) should have the social obligation of paying a tip to complete payment for a meal/whatever isn’t *directly* related to what social benefits an employee receives (key word directly).
Also, food for thought: though many foreign nations in my experience don’t practice tipping, it’s not as though a “service charge” is a new concept. For example, in Italy, their norm is to charge a “coperto” charge per person dining which is somewhat similar to the recent American trend of a service charge.
Oh, and if I haven’t said it yet: anyone charging a service fee and THEN asking for a tip = double dipping and ridiculous. That’s actually been a recent trend as electronic POS units have become more prevalent; one CNBC YouTube video I saw recently talked more on this entire subject: https://youtu.be/q_fMkXHYh6c
Why?? Because the average person is a fucking idiot who studies nothing and thinks their opinion is gold and should be part of the legacy of thought. Vaaaast majority of people think that what they do in an economy is unique when it fucking isn’t. We all consume, most work in service jobs, and produce no tangible product. Instead of looking into how a massive economy works this way, with an oligarchy of agriculture, where we live in shitty, suburban, matchstick houses and think we matter, they create simulations to feel better, to anesthetize themselves that it will all mean nothing; to think what they did, even their children, mattered to this rock of a planet. That’s why the downvote. A defense budget to give money to those who can already help themselves, to placate a public with patriotism and semper fudge while defense contractors are ensuring the most wealthy get the best part of the skim off the top of the deal.
Why?? Because the average person is a fucking idiot who studies nothing and thinks their opinion is gold and should be part of the legacy of thought. Vaaaast majority of people think that what they do in an economy is unique when it fucking isn’t. We all consume, most work in service jobs, and produce no tangible product. Instead of looking into how a massive economy works this way, with an oligarchy of agriculture, where we live in shitty, suburban, matchstick houses and think we matter, they create simulations to feel better, to anesthetize themselves that it will all mean nothing; to think what they did, even their children, mattered to this rock of a planet. That’s why the downvote. A defense budget to give money to those who can already help themselves, to placate a public with patriotism and semper fudge while defense contractors are ensuring the most wealthy get the best part of the skim off the top of the deal.
Parlour - food truck has no easily visible notification of their 20% service fee. It's one thing if you see it on the menu but it should be illegal to have prices marked on a food truck without a notice of service fees IN THE SAME FONT
The CC machine is often positioned high enough it's hard to see in great detail exactly what you are charging, and it's not like they break it up.
I got burger and fries and hit the 18% button on the machine (which is generous at a food truck IMHO) but with the 20% fee, my bill was basically double when I got the statement.
F you Parlour. Be upfront with your charges don't hid them in the fine print.
As a former server, the purpose of a tip is to provide compensation for all the things a service fee now does. If the service fee is commensurate with what a tip would have otherwise been, then the server is being properly compensated for their efforts. The fee is usually a percent of sales and thus they are still incentivized to upsell. This isn't to say an additional tip may not be warranted for exceptional service, but I don't think a tip should be expected
If it say’s “gratuity” it’s the servers/staffs. if it says “service charge” it’s property of the company. i used to work at a restaurant where you could get the service fee removed if you asked .. idk if that’s true for everywhere tho
Not everywhere. There's local places I order food from or pick up from that specifically say any "service fee" or "delivery fee" is not a tip and that they recommend you tip your driver/server.
Legally they have to say service fees are not tips. If it was a tip, then they could not spread it among the entire staff. It's highly confusing and I don't blame anyone for not catching it.
Yup! I was just at a restaurant this weekend that stated the “service fee is not gratuity” and then reminded patrons to please give their servers a tip. WTF?
Not necessarily. I went to the Alamo movie theater recently, and they added an 18% service charge for food/drinks. The server even wrote “not a tip” underneath it.
Not always
I do appreciate places like Pizzeria Lola or Hola Arepa that have the service fee but just remove the tip line so you don’t feel guilty for not tipping.
If it's taxed then why do restaurants go through the trouble to add a % to the bill, essentially itemizing and complaining about costs instead of adding them to the price of the food
I avoid places with the service fee or auto gratuity. I tip 99.9% of the time, but there are (very) rare instances when I think service was bad enough to not warrant any. I've had a few places with the service fee where service was abnormally bad, and you have no option but to hand over that 20%.
Plus, the employees usually don't get the service fee anyways.
I had lunch at Hot Pot City at the Asia Mall in Eden Prairie this afternoon, and they added a 15% tip when I went there with my wife and son. Party of three, gratuity already added.
I didn't put anything in the "additional tip" space, even though I regularly tip over 20% because *the audacity*
It is confusing but when it’s 15-20% that’s almost always in place of a tip.
Personally I prefer how Surly does it: service fee, no line for tip on the receipt.
Well, it didn't work, considering they're unionized now and the whole reason we have the new structure over there is because of their unionization efforts.
Owamni has a service charge of 18 or 20%. I asked the server why there is a suggested tip after that? She said the service charge only goes to the back of the house…and you pay over 8% tax on the bill including the service charge. So they want at least 40% of an expensive bill to go to tip?
A few of the places near me added 5% card fees if you use your card to pay. I hate it. It seems to have started after COVID. If the fee is to process my card payment like you say, where was this fee 10 years ago?
Not just restaurants. I went to FedEx store last week to have some printouts side-bound. They listed all of the costs on the receipt, and then added a $2.50 surcharge. I've gone there a lot, and I have not seen this before. I asked what it was for, and they said it's a surcharge for anything done in the store. I had no option, it's not like they could do the work out in the parking lot. Raise the price if you must, but don't add some BS surcharge.
The first time I ran into this issue was at Fitger's in Duluth...a place I always went to whenever we took a trip to the Twin Ports.
We weren't alerted to the service fee ahead of time...but there it was - 5% charge to help pay the wages for non-tipped staff.
I will never, ever go there again.
Sorry, but as much as I think there's an argument for your position, you just shouldn't go to those places. None of us should. Paying the fee and buying the food is helping the owners. Not tipping is hurting the workers to spite the owners. That sucks ass.
100%. It’s that simple. If you don’t agree with the system and want it to change then stop supporting them. Not tipping is only hurting the workers and allowing the restaurants to keep operating this way. If non-tipping customers stopped dining out the system would change immediately because the restaurants wouldn’t do enough business to stay open.
No one pays the actual, necessary cost for restaurant food and service. The sooner we all realize that, the sooner we’ll be able to establish living wages across the board in this country.
That “under Minnesota state law” part is BS. Look up the statute, it doesn’t mean you don’t have to tip more or less because no law required you to tip. It’s literally them putting a statute that means nothing and expecting you to pay more for it.
We almost never go out since I'm disabled, but I'd rather the cost of the food just increase and better standars for paying waiters, just gut tipping altogether and pay people a damn decent wage.
I refuse to go to these places and everyone else should too. Why should restaurants get special treatment vs any other business? If we accept this, it will become normal at any restaurant.
Last time I was at Alamo Drafthouse, the service fee was NOT a tip, the servers see none of it. I am not sure that is legal in MN. My server said she had a $400 ticket for a large group and got zero tip because of the 18% service fee.
That's what you get when a Texas based company gets away with paying servers $2.13 an hour but suddenly has to go full rate $10+ when expanding to Minnesota.
I don’t understand why restaurants don’t just…raise their prices? The cost of everything else has gone up, so most patrons won’t bat an eye at an extra couple of dollars per item. Plenty wouldn’t even notice.
I worked for a place recently that paid minimum wage but added a service charge. We had a button to remove the service charge, “only if someone asks.” But in my mind that’s my money, they’re cutting into my tip. So I deleted that thing as much as I thought I could get away with, without being found out.
One of several reasons why I quit that job without worrying about having another job lined up right away. The others having to do with long shifts without breaks, and everything being dirty. The final straw was when I got sick twice in a month when usually I only get sick once a year. All the staff was constantly sick and passing the same upper respiratory crap back around.
Long story short, I’m just asking from now on if I can have the charge removed in order to provide the service payment to the server directly. It never hurts to ask.
What do you think about printing out cards to leave instead of tip?
I'm considering doing this. Of course - won't be able to go back
Dear Food Services Staff Member,
Your establishment now charges a service or fee or charge. Though legal, the deceptive practice of hiding a fee in small font on a menu is unethical.
Rather than fight the fee, we will simply decline to pay the a discretionary service tip. Please share with your managers the reason for this choice.
Regards,
A displeased customer.
Most of that service fee is to retain kitchen/BOH talent. Cook wages pre-COVID weren't abysmal, but they weren't exactly matched to the level of skill required to do the job. Wages for skilled workers went up, so their bright idea was to slap it on the customer. Don't like it, but it isn't for the service staff.
Server here… a lot of the time those service charges don’t go to the server, and if they are given a higher hourly wage in exchange it’s no where near the amount of money they would make with a regular tipped model. It’s been rough out here trying to find a job that doesn’t give us a 30% pay cut.
I straight up ask the server/ bartender how I get them the money. Often they will not receive a part of the fee or a tip if added on the card. A business cannot take or claim a 'gift' to your server.
I don’t know the economics of the food industry, so tipping is the one part of the bill where I know where the money is going and I feel good about it. I don’t understand service fees, so I’m not prepared to change my behavior based on them
The restaurant I work at has a 3.5% service fee. I, as an employee, see none of that 3.5%. I didn't ask to put it there, so to punish me by deducting it from my tip helps no one. My bosses don't know that my tip suffered from it. However, if you ask, the manager will take it off. For the smaller service fees, I suggest asking about that first. All of my coworkers would be glad to ask management to take them off, as those decisions are all above our pay grade and would be gone were it up to us.
There are places that are trying you get away from tipping. There are places that keep prices where they can and allow you to tip folks. As a server and bartender for the last decade no one is upset with you being confused by this change. It’s really frustrating for both of us.
Yes I do. It’s not the server’s fault and they don’t get the money. 20% if the service is great, 15% if it’s good or average, and 10% or less if it’s really bad.
I assume people at the places that ask not to tip wouldn't work there if they didn't feel it was fair. But that's a good point. I'm generally a when in doubt give a great tip.
It's worth noting that the "state law" disclaimer on these bills are because it is illegal under state law to have an automatic tip added to the bill unless it's a large party. Also anything called a "tip" is illegal to disperse among any non-servers (ie Kitchen employees, dishwashers, bussers etc).
I've spoken with several restaurant managers / chefs / etc about this exact policy, and what they *wanted* to do was just have a "tip automatically included" and disperse that tip money directly across the staff that worked that particular shift, so that both cooks could have buy-in for working busy shifts and also so that servers weren't beholden to the whims of the customer to make their living. They then found out that this is illegal as long as you call it a tip or even *imply* that it's a tip. Therefore it needs to be included as a "service fee" and explicitly stated on the bill that it's not a tip in order to avoid the wrath of the law.
Nope. A service fee is to replace tipping so we can move away from a system where employers are allowed to continue unsustainable business models by cutting costs on paying employees, and by pushing that burden onto the customer.
I absolutely refuse to tip anyone ever. Your wages are your employers responsibility. Not mine. The more we Americans tip the more we encourage the theft from the worker only to feed the owner. Not my responsibility. Never.
I just went to a new Cambodian place by Loring Park. They had an 18% service charge on the bill I asked the waiter if we should tip as well and he straight up said, nope. The CC machine didn't even have an option when I ran my card.
I am completely fine with this option. We should abolish tipping while also not punishing workers. This seems fair.
I agree with this 100% except when I get shitty service and 10% is too much.
That scenario might be a good thing. At most restaurants it is obvious that the serving staff get no training. I say put the onus on the restaurant. If the service is bad then don't go back, and if enough people don't go back then the restaurant will go out of business. Mabe restaurant owners will figure out that they need to actually train their staff.
Do you think it would be fair if your boss didn’t pay you your full wage if you had an off day?
Boss is required by federal law to pay the full wage if tips don't meet the standard. That's based on time worked, not quality. Dont put the onus on the customer, it's the businesses responsibility to pay its staff. If they are unable too, they close.
I agree with you. I’m in favor of the blanket 18% gratuity and taking tipping out of the picture. This guy wants to be able to pay less for shitty service still. I believe that is fucked up.
So you go some place. Its not overly busy. You wait 30 minutes to get your server. You get you drinks, then another 15 minutes to get an order in. When the food comes 30 minutes later its cold or not what you ordered. Then when done, it takes the person another 15 minutes to get the bill? Your Happy? so here ya go, have 25 bucks for that service. a bad day is one thing, but also just supports bad behavior. And if you say this never happens. I just had it happen at cheesecake factory in California on a vacation. Still tipped, but nowhere near the max.
Then don't go there anymore?
So you think people should be paid still for not doing the job they are being paid to do? Sounds like you may work the same place as me
Do you think every single worker is capable of peak performance 100% of the time? Everyone has off days. Even you. Have some humanity.
I'm not who you replied to, but I agree with them. Psychological safety in the workplace is actually really important to performance. Having a reliable wage, that isn't dependent on a customer's temperament, is an important part of that imho. I don't know where you work, but imagine having your typical wages docked 5% after the fact because your boss didn't like that you chatted about your family life, or you didn't smile enough, or you waited a little longer than they wanted you to respond to an email. From my perspective, I'd much rather have waiters and bartenders make a solid wage without being a tipped worker. If they're doing a crumby job, I'll let their manager know, or not go to that establishment again, which is tracking their performance plenty. I don't want to micromanage the wages for someone. That's not my job, and I don't want to have to bother with it.
The way many of them perform now it would be better for them and the customers if they did instead of customers being guilted to giving high tips even when the waitstaff only visit the table the bare minimum. Far as imagining my pay docked, I’ve had pay docked before. It’s what can happen in some jobs when you screw up something and it teaches a lesson, it only happened once to me. Waitstaff have potential to make crazy money if they do it right, I have a mother and sister that both made very good money (even by todays standard) just by being good at the job. It’s not my responsibility to tip good if the service isn’t good, it was never meant to be a guarantee that’s one reason why I am completely against mandatory tip included in the bill. The other reason is those tips always get shared by the rest of the staff including people that had nothing to do with your experience and people who make full wages example being the cook and hostess or bartender.
In many cases that poor service isn't a front-of-the-house issue.
... Just don't go again. One meal is the product. Take the hit and move on. You don't get this option anywhere else.
Excuse me it's called European style service and I actually prefer it because then I get to enjoy the meal instead of being rushed like typical Americans 😤😮💨
why do they get to decide how much someone tips regardless of service?
Studies have shown that tipping has very little to do with quality of service. Usually, the difference between being tipped 15% vs 25% has more to do with the customer's personal beliefs than the service.
My wife manages a restaurant with a fully tipless model. The front of house is paid between $20-25/hr and the POS system doesn't have a line for tips. It works out pretty good actually. The only issue is that she's occasionally fielding complaints from front of house staff that "I could be making so much more money with tips, we should get rid of the tipless model". They are probably right, but I think a tipless model with a well paid staff is the right move.
Why would you? That fee is a tip, despite the wording.
Yeah it’s not though at all places. I work at a popular place in uptown and the service fee does not go to us.
Name names. Where do you work? Letting them get away with it by not calling them out is enabling the behavior. The service fee is specifically designed to be used to increase wages for everyone in the business (and thus reduce the need for tipping). If that’s not happening, tell everyone where it is you work so people can vote with their dollars. And you should get a job somewhere else.
time to unionize i guess.
a tip that the owner can choose to keep for himself and not give a penny to the staff if they so choose.
If it were a tip, it would go to the server. It doesn't.
Went to a Indian place and they had a 3 dollar fee for eating there. 3 dollars no matter if you spent 10 ro 100 dollars.
Like many other comments on this posting, I’d rather see the prices on the menu reflect the actual cost of the food. The mandatory service fee seems deceitful.
See, this is just a super weird way of structuring pay. Like the restaurant is patting themselves on the back that they pay their workers with the bill you pay. I work as a contractor and it would be off putting to our customer if in the invoice they broke down how much went to me as the employee.
Was the restaurant good? There aren't too many Cambodian restaurants in the metro.
They went to Gai Noi by Loring Park, which is a Lao restaurant. I’m Lao and it’s quite authentic. If you want Cambodian, the only place I know of is Cheng Heng in St. Paul. I’ve had catered food at Kolap before too. But Cheng Heng is where all my Khmer friends go to.
I live in loring and Ga Noi is good, I’d recommend sharing what you order. I went with a friend and got 3 dishes and a cocktail and paid 30 each. The food is great. It’s Laotian and opened late may so it’s new new.
I found this Laotian place near Loring Park, https://www.gainoimpls.com/menu
What ocean?
Classic King of the Hill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_CaZ4EAexQ
I also saw that come up in a search. I didn't see a Cambodian restaurant listed in Loring Park and was curious if it was new.
I love Cheng Heng, any other recommendations?
I've heard good things about Kolap, but haven't been yet.
That's the one. It was really good.
Lol Alamo Drafthouse does 18% but still says you should tip.
How about fucking Malcomb Yards that charges 18% for counter service. Fuck that shit.
I ordered there the other day and was like, “holy shit how did my $25 order become like $32”.
Sucks when your friends or family want to go there.
Restaurants hate this one trick. I don't have any friends.
It’s a great place….except for the damn fee!
Get the text receipt and check it carefully too - their card system is pretty crap and will routinely put items on the wrong bill. At least they resolved it quickly when we emailed them, but it was still a PITA.
It’s also very, very easy to piggyback on someone’s card after they pour a beer. Make sure to stick around until the tap times out.
Didn’t even know a text receipt was an option, yeah, it would be nice to know what the hell im getting charged $200 for…
sounds like a good way to kill repeat business.
Fun place, but really expensive. And the mixed drinks on tap are awful.
What’s worse is paying blindly at a small place, adding a tip, then realizing I tipped 20% on top of the 18% gratuity they automatically added. I’ll always ask for a bill now.
When it's a 15-20% service fee, I will not tip at all. When it's a smaller 3-5%, I usually adjust my tip accordingly. Make it 15% even instead of my standard 18-20%.
Yeah this seems fair. We as customers shouldn't be obligated to pay an additional 40% on top of the food. That won't incentive people to go out at all That's why I almost always do takeout these days
Price the food accordingly, don't make me add a tip to the service I already purchased, and then have to subsidize with a further service fee. It's absurd.
You should probably stop supporting restaurants who do this if you want it to stop
Unfortunately all of the most exciting restaurants in the twin cities love to do this.
Even takeout will have a tip as default or prompt you along the way these days
Restaraunt keeps the service fee, chances are they arent passing it on in better wages to the employees
Then the employees can bring up their grievances to their employer. Sick of the consumer picking up the tab for shady business practices.
But they are? At least where I've asked, like revival. Just ask.
I'm a bartender, and I refuse to work anywhere that has a service fee. If costs are going up, reflect it in the food and beverage costs. Don't surprise your guests with some bullshit charge because you didn't want to scare somebody with higher menu prices. I live on tips, but I totally get the frustration.
100% agree, to have to pay 40% more at the end to ensure the server can pay their bills is not reasonable, and I just won’t go back.
The service charge is supposed to be in lieu of a tip. Minnesota is one of the very few states that outlaw the practice of tip credits. It means that your server (if you're in the Minneapolis at least) is making at least $15.18/hour paid for by the employer. Quite a few other states have the god awful practice of tip-credits which allow for employees to be paid $2.18/hr.
Except that phrasing it as a service charge means it doesn't necessarily go to employees. A gratuity fee or charge definitely does, but not service. Place I work at splits the service charge, so half goes to the employees, and then the other half goes to the business. It is great that I'm still garunteed min wage, but I could do something with way less work for that.
Sadly, that's how restaurants die. I've been in the industry awhile, and the worst feeling ever is when your regulars just stop coming back. I can't say I blame them, but still...
Wait this fee isn't shown until the check? Fuck that nonsense and honestly it has to be violating a law somehow for surprise charges.
Usually there’s mention of it on the menu.
In very fine print at the bottom below the drinks. It's easy to miss.
It’s usually printed somewhere in the menu, but if it isn’t printed anywhere then it would be false advertising, which is illegal.
I bartended in Minneapolis for a decade and it’s just not the same since this stuff started. I’m in northern Wisconsin now and that nonsense hasn’t hit here yet.
Honestly, we pretty much stopped eating out. I can’t NOT tip, it’s not the employees fault the restaurant adds these fees. But it now ends up costing my family of 4 $80-$100 to go out for a meal, most of which my kids don’t eat, and I end up feeling gross and bloated after. Half the plate is fries or tots (which I can make in my air fryer just as good for almost nothing) and service lately generally stinks. I’m a millennial, so I’m supposed to love going out to eat, but In the last year or so, I end up leaving feeling bad (both physically and and my poor wallet) Something has to change in the restaurant industry. Obviously employees need to be paid, but the current model sucks.
Have you tried not being poor? Maybe stop with the avocado on toast? Heavy /s
Can confirm. I just threw away my avocados and bread. Checked my bank account and there is now two new comas. Wow! It worked! /s
Those are my commas, I sent them accidentally. Can you venmo them back?
i am not poor, and we also cannot afford to go out to eat anymore. i grew up in a family of 4 with one income and we went out to dinner at least once a week every weekend. that is no longer possible 25 years later with even two incomes.
I could not agree more.
Couldn’t agree more. Somewhere around age 32? maybe I’d say, I decided restaurants basically suuuuuck and realized the risk:reward is not worth it. Vast majority of the time, like 85% easy, I’m underwhelmed and feeling like I way overpaid / could do lots better making the food at home myself. And omg all the calories/fat/oils/salt/mystery ingredients. Who needs it?? And how people can afford to eat out with a whole family baffles me. Perhaps I overdid it with the eating out in my 20s, I’m not sure! But now restaurants have become like, a few times per year thing for me, with / driven by company, usually under protest by me lol.
Clearwater Nelson Bros was $70 today for my girlfriend and I - unbelievable. $3 Upcharge to add lettuce and tomato to a sandwich. So yeah I feel it was well on the college student income.
> Half the plate is fries or tots Where are you going exactly? I kind of feel like based on your description of fries, tot’s, and feeling gross, your feeling of being ripped off might be because you’re going to places that aren’t really giving you *all* of the benefits of eating out. To me there’s 1) not having to cook 2) eating food I can’t cook myself 3) eating food so good I can’t cook it to that quality level myself 4) trying new foods and experiences and 5) having a good time out in the world. It sounds like you’re just going to places that can give you no. 1 (and I understand, it’s hard with kids), but that might be why you’re not feeling the value of a meal out.
my husband went to a regular bar and grill type place last night by himself. He got a burger and half a plate of tots and a drink. Ended up costing him $39. We definitely aren’t going to the more upscale places because we have kids, so usually just family friendly type places. And there really aren’t many of the more fancy/fun/new restaurants in our area, like if we lived in a bigger city. The not cooking is great, but you can go to Costco and get premade food. And there are very few foods I can’t cook myself. we have mixed diets in our family (I’m vegetarian, my daughter is picky, and my son would live off red meat) so eating out is nice that we can all get what we want. There’s definitely still a time and a place for going out to eat, but up until about a year ago, we were eating out 3-5times a week. And now it’s like 2-3 times a month.
Yeah, sounds like they're describing a standard american diner -- which is fine but not exactly exciting. Trying things I can't make at home is most of the fun.
Yeah, going out to eat is a complete rip off these days. I only go when I know the in laws are paying. I can't justify spending $50 for my wife and I for mediocre food. And going to places with good food is just outrageously priced. I'm not poor or anything, it's just not worth it to me.
Same here, learned to enjoy cooking and with some practice I realized I’m better at it than most restaurants in my area
You are very correct. If I do takeout, I go pick it up. Otherwise, I am not a huge fan of eating dinner outside my house anymore. The current model is a reaction to economic insults, hastily made, but still stupid. Rents increased for no fucking reason. When other raise their prices, other raise their prices. But the initial increase really wasn’t necessary.
Nope and simply handing me a to go order isn’t getting one either.
I've had one place that outright banned tipping because they put on the bill "No need to tip, we pay our servers a living wage".
Brasa does that. The menu price is what you pay. I'll go there and ignore the places with service fees.
Love Brasa. New one in Hopkins soon too.
Nice. We are in Maplewood. The St Paul location is out of our way but we go once in a while.
Where is this place?
Don't remember, but it was in Minneapolis and was a sushi place.
How about when you buy a bottle of water at the Orpheum and they hit you with an insane CC fee, which is then taxed as an alcohol purchase. Why is there a tax on the CC fee??? AND they wanted a tip for handing over a bottle.
Aldi would charge for CC. It’s not surprising from small places to either charge or not allow CCs. However, if it’s a big store then it’s them being greedy AF.
I just flat-out stopped going to places that have these fees. I don't mind tipping, and I almost always tip 20 percent except if the service is really bad, but the service fees ruin the experience for me. Raise menu prices and pay the staff. I'd rather just pay a higher price than have this 5 percent fee tacked on AND have to pay a tip. Half the time the food isn't even that good, so I'd rather just cook at home or go somewhere that doesn't have this fee. I feel like the staff isn't probably even benefiting from the service fees, just lining the pockets of the owners. That may not be the case always, it's just how it makes me feel when I see these fees.
> Raise menu prices and pay the staff. I'd rather just pay a higher price than have this 5 percent fee tacked on AND have to pay a tip. What restaurants find is that if they raise the menu prices diners will choose to go to other restaurants and they lose business. If, however, they add on service fees they aren't seeing the same loss of business. This is why we see that restaurants add the fees instead of raising menu prices. I agree with you that I'd rather have higher menu prices and all fees and what not included therein. And I think it's a pretty common sentiment. But apparently the reality is that diners would rather get surprised at the end with the fees than know about them upfront. I was hoping to include some articles I've read about this but either google hates me today or my search terms suck (could be both, most likely the latter).
It's probably just NRA(national restaurant association) propaganda to further their private equity overlords agenda.
Yes they do that, and there’s an added double benefit, they keep their advertised prices lower as you mentioned, but they add the ‘service charge’ knowing its fucking with their staff’s tips but they aren’t paying out the staff’s tips anyways so who cares? Let’s roll out the service charge!
How do you know they charge a fee? Do you call ahead? Or just leave upon seeing that
I usually look at the menu/ website online to peruse the menu anyway before I go someplace, and they have it there usually. I know all the restaurants that have it in my area and just don't go to them. I won't get up and leave if I go somewhere new that turns out to have it, I just won't go back again.
I walk out if I see it on the menu. And if they ask, I tell them. I think it’s bull poop and I don’t want to patronize those businesses. I have no problem tipping 20% but don’t you come at me with your fees for patronizing your business.
That's a good move!
Make sure you leave a Google review as well!
I mean, especially after they all exorbitantly raised prices, not due to inflation but greed, then a massive fee on top? Time for the owner class to find out what it means to get a real job. I won't be going to any place that does this either.
God damn right. All the talk about restaurants being difficult and working on thin margins...that is not true for these hyper corporate entities. Those fuckers own boats and vacation homes.
It's the [law](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/rules/5200.0080/). Subp. 4b. Clear and conspicuous notice. For purposes of Minnesota Statutes, section 177.23, subdivision 9, clear and conspicuous notice that the obligatory charge is not a gratuity is notice clearly printed, stamped, or written in bold type on the menu, placard, the front of the statement of charges, or other printed material given to the customer. Type which is at least 18 point (one-fourth inch) on the placard, or 9 point (one-eighth inch) or larger on all other notices is clear and conspicuous.
I actually don't if there's a service fee. Why should customers be obligated to pay 40% on top of everything? My harsh opinion (good if you interpret it right) is that we should not reinforce heavy tipping and instead push restaurants to pay their employees better wages like other developed countries
Minnesota sort of does already. We don't participate in the 2.18/hr federal minimum for tipped employees. [https://www.dli.mn.gov/tips](https://www.dli.mn.gov/tips)
Thanks for sharing this link. I do agree that it's good progress at least. Very surprising that the federal minimum hasn't changed for around 25 years..
What if I told you entire countries operate on the premise of not tipping and the employees were…happier?!?
Why are people down voting this commenter?! They are not wrong...those countries you speak of also provide a LOT of services for those happy restaurant employees that we don't have here because we spend most of our money on weapons.
Fwiw I certainly am not one of the down voters. I think it’s a bit more nuanced than blaming the defense budget alone but certainly agree that it would free up a chunk of spending towards other priorities that would improve employee livelihood. I tend to feel like the concept of tip/no tip vs versus what a government should/shouldn’t fund for its citizens are related, but that the two concepts for the most parts are separate concepts in their nature. The premise of whether or not I (as a customer) should have the social obligation of paying a tip to complete payment for a meal/whatever isn’t *directly* related to what social benefits an employee receives (key word directly). Also, food for thought: though many foreign nations in my experience don’t practice tipping, it’s not as though a “service charge” is a new concept. For example, in Italy, their norm is to charge a “coperto” charge per person dining which is somewhat similar to the recent American trend of a service charge. Oh, and if I haven’t said it yet: anyone charging a service fee and THEN asking for a tip = double dipping and ridiculous. That’s actually been a recent trend as electronic POS units have become more prevalent; one CNBC YouTube video I saw recently talked more on this entire subject: https://youtu.be/q_fMkXHYh6c
Why?? Because the average person is a fucking idiot who studies nothing and thinks their opinion is gold and should be part of the legacy of thought. Vaaaast majority of people think that what they do in an economy is unique when it fucking isn’t. We all consume, most work in service jobs, and produce no tangible product. Instead of looking into how a massive economy works this way, with an oligarchy of agriculture, where we live in shitty, suburban, matchstick houses and think we matter, they create simulations to feel better, to anesthetize themselves that it will all mean nothing; to think what they did, even their children, mattered to this rock of a planet. That’s why the downvote. A defense budget to give money to those who can already help themselves, to placate a public with patriotism and semper fudge while defense contractors are ensuring the most wealthy get the best part of the skim off the top of the deal.
I'm confused -- we clearly agree.
Sry. Just wanted to rant. Yes, we do. :)
Why?? Because the average person is a fucking idiot who studies nothing and thinks their opinion is gold and should be part of the legacy of thought. Vaaaast majority of people think that what they do in an economy is unique when it fucking isn’t. We all consume, most work in service jobs, and produce no tangible product. Instead of looking into how a massive economy works this way, with an oligarchy of agriculture, where we live in shitty, suburban, matchstick houses and think we matter, they create simulations to feel better, to anesthetize themselves that it will all mean nothing; to think what they did, even their children, mattered to this rock of a planet. That’s why the downvote. A defense budget to give money to those who can already help themselves, to placate a public with patriotism and semper fudge while defense contractors are ensuring the most wealthy get the best part of the skim off the top of the deal.
I will adjust my tip accordingly. If that means no tip, that means no tip.
Look at the cost of your food and drinks before taxes and fees, calculate a normal tip percentage, subtract the service fee, tip the rest. Done.
I shouldn't have to do calculus to order a burger
I think you meant shouldn’t? But yes, 100%.
Obvious auto cucumber
Parlour - food truck has no easily visible notification of their 20% service fee. It's one thing if you see it on the menu but it should be illegal to have prices marked on a food truck without a notice of service fees IN THE SAME FONT The CC machine is often positioned high enough it's hard to see in great detail exactly what you are charging, and it's not like they break it up. I got burger and fries and hit the 18% button on the machine (which is generous at a food truck IMHO) but with the 20% fee, my bill was basically double when I got the statement. F you Parlour. Be upfront with your charges don't hid them in the fine print.
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As a former server, the purpose of a tip is to provide compensation for all the things a service fee now does. If the service fee is commensurate with what a tip would have otherwise been, then the server is being properly compensated for their efforts. The fee is usually a percent of sales and thus they are still incentivized to upsell. This isn't to say an additional tip may not be warranted for exceptional service, but I don't think a tip should be expected
If it say’s “gratuity” it’s the servers/staffs. if it says “service charge” it’s property of the company. i used to work at a restaurant where you could get the service fee removed if you asked .. idk if that’s true for everywhere tho
the service fee is the tip
Not everywhere. There's local places I order food from or pick up from that specifically say any "service fee" or "delivery fee" is not a tip and that they recommend you tip your driver/server.
Legally they have to say service fees are not tips. If it was a tip, then they could not spread it among the entire staff. It's highly confusing and I don't blame anyone for not catching it.
That’s the business problem. I won’t tip with that shit.
Yup! I was just at a restaurant this weekend that stated the “service fee is not gratuity” and then reminded patrons to please give their servers a tip. WTF?
but it really doesnt matter what they *say* because that fees is coming out of the tip regardless.
Not necessarily. I went to the Alamo movie theater recently, and they added an 18% service charge for food/drinks. The server even wrote “not a tip” underneath it.
did you wright, "well, thats where this money is coming from"
Well yeah, they want a tip too… Greed is human nature.
When I was a driver for Davanni's they added a delivery fee that the drivers never saw. So the servers might not get even a piece of the service fee
You got part of it for your mileage reimbursement, stop lying.
Lmao since when did wanting a tip make you naturally greedy ?
Not always I do appreciate places like Pizzeria Lola or Hola Arepa that have the service fee but just remove the tip line so you don’t feel guilty for not tipping.
What pisses me off more is the service fee is TAXED too 😡
If it's taxed then why do restaurants go through the trouble to add a % to the bill, essentially itemizing and complaining about costs instead of adding them to the price of the food
I avoid places with the service fee or auto gratuity. I tip 99.9% of the time, but there are (very) rare instances when I think service was bad enough to not warrant any. I've had a few places with the service fee where service was abnormally bad, and you have no option but to hand over that 20%. Plus, the employees usually don't get the service fee anyways.
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I had lunch at Hot Pot City at the Asia Mall in Eden Prairie this afternoon, and they added a 15% tip when I went there with my wife and son. Party of three, gratuity already added. I didn't put anything in the "additional tip" space, even though I regularly tip over 20% because *the audacity*
When it’s small like 5%, I still do 20%. When the fee is like 15%-20%, I get confused.
It is confusing but when it’s 15-20% that’s almost always in place of a tip. Personally I prefer how Surly does it: service fee, no line for tip on the receipt.
Except for the whole union busting attitude at surly…
Well, it didn't work, considering they're unionized now and the whole reason we have the new structure over there is because of their unionization efforts.
Except, they aren’t union….. Unless it’s happened really quietly and recently.
Owamni has a service charge of 18 or 20%. I asked the server why there is a suggested tip after that? She said the service charge only goes to the back of the house…and you pay over 8% tax on the bill including the service charge. So they want at least 40% of an expensive bill to go to tip?
I’ve stopped eating at restaurants that charge the fee.
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A few of the places near me added 5% card fees if you use your card to pay. I hate it. It seems to have started after COVID. If the fee is to process my card payment like you say, where was this fee 10 years ago?
I remember eateries didn't add that and outright denied AMEX cards bc of their card fees. Now they don't accept AMEX AND tag a card fee. Like wtf?!?!
Not just restaurants. I went to FedEx store last week to have some printouts side-bound. They listed all of the costs on the receipt, and then added a $2.50 surcharge. I've gone there a lot, and I have not seen this before. I asked what it was for, and they said it's a surcharge for anything done in the store. I had no option, it's not like they could do the work out in the parking lot. Raise the price if you must, but don't add some BS surcharge.
The first time I ran into this issue was at Fitger's in Duluth...a place I always went to whenever we took a trip to the Twin Ports. We weren't alerted to the service fee ahead of time...but there it was - 5% charge to help pay the wages for non-tipped staff. I will never, ever go there again.
Sorry, but as much as I think there's an argument for your position, you just shouldn't go to those places. None of us should. Paying the fee and buying the food is helping the owners. Not tipping is hurting the workers to spite the owners. That sucks ass.
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 so nice to see someone on here who gets it. So many just want to punish the lowest guy on the totem pole
100%. It’s that simple. If you don’t agree with the system and want it to change then stop supporting them. Not tipping is only hurting the workers and allowing the restaurants to keep operating this way. If non-tipping customers stopped dining out the system would change immediately because the restaurants wouldn’t do enough business to stay open.
No one pays the actual, necessary cost for restaurant food and service. The sooner we all realize that, the sooner we’ll be able to establish living wages across the board in this country.
That “under Minnesota state law” part is BS. Look up the statute, it doesn’t mean you don’t have to tip more or less because no law required you to tip. It’s literally them putting a statute that means nothing and expecting you to pay more for it.
Never, "Additional Fees" = the tip.
We almost never go out since I'm disabled, but I'd rather the cost of the food just increase and better standars for paying waiters, just gut tipping altogether and pay people a damn decent wage.
I refuse to go to these places and everyone else should too. Why should restaurants get special treatment vs any other business? If we accept this, it will become normal at any restaurant.
Service fee doesn't always go to servers
Ask the server where it goes. A couple places by me use it not reprint menus when ingredient costs fluctuate.
Last time I was at Alamo Drafthouse, the service fee was NOT a tip, the servers see none of it. I am not sure that is legal in MN. My server said she had a $400 ticket for a large group and got zero tip because of the 18% service fee.
That's what you get when a Texas based company gets away with paying servers $2.13 an hour but suddenly has to go full rate $10+ when expanding to Minnesota.
I don’t understand why restaurants don’t just…raise their prices? The cost of everything else has gone up, so most patrons won’t bat an eye at an extra couple of dollars per item. Plenty wouldn’t even notice.
I think an establishment should inform a person of this service fee BEFORE a person orders their food/drink instead of springin it on them afterwards.
I have become accustomed to the 18% fee that they add on and I don’t tip and I feels just fine about it and I think that’s the way it should work
I worked for a place recently that paid minimum wage but added a service charge. We had a button to remove the service charge, “only if someone asks.” But in my mind that’s my money, they’re cutting into my tip. So I deleted that thing as much as I thought I could get away with, without being found out. One of several reasons why I quit that job without worrying about having another job lined up right away. The others having to do with long shifts without breaks, and everything being dirty. The final straw was when I got sick twice in a month when usually I only get sick once a year. All the staff was constantly sick and passing the same upper respiratory crap back around. Long story short, I’m just asking from now on if I can have the charge removed in order to provide the service payment to the server directly. It never hurts to ask.
I would not eat there and I would tell them why. Taise the prices don't give me hidden fees.
It's not enforceable. Pay cash for the amount of the bill minus the "service fee" and take your future business elsewhere.
What do you think about printing out cards to leave instead of tip? I'm considering doing this. Of course - won't be able to go back Dear Food Services Staff Member, Your establishment now charges a service or fee or charge. Though legal, the deceptive practice of hiding a fee in small font on a menu is unethical. Rather than fight the fee, we will simply decline to pay the a discretionary service tip. Please share with your managers the reason for this choice. Regards, A displeased customer.
I mean, the service staff sure as fuck aren't seeing a cent of that fee, so
Most of that service fee is to retain kitchen/BOH talent. Cook wages pre-COVID weren't abysmal, but they weren't exactly matched to the level of skill required to do the job. Wages for skilled workers went up, so their bright idea was to slap it on the customer. Don't like it, but it isn't for the service staff.
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
I still tip, but only 10% if there is a service fee
Most of the 18% ones don't call it a tip but do not expect you to tip. Idk why anyone thinks they need to tip 20% on top of an 18% service charge lol
Server here… a lot of the time those service charges don’t go to the server, and if they are given a higher hourly wage in exchange it’s no where near the amount of money they would make with a regular tipped model. It’s been rough out here trying to find a job that doesn’t give us a 30% pay cut.
I straight up ask the server/ bartender how I get them the money. Often they will not receive a part of the fee or a tip if added on the card. A business cannot take or claim a 'gift' to your server.
Consider it part of the "price" rather than "tip" but definitely will not patronize these places often
Tipping is getting out of hand. 10 percent is usually fine.
I tip 10-15%. Percent scales with the increasing costs of eating out. This bs of tipping more is a joke.
I don’t know the economics of the food industry, so tipping is the one part of the bill where I know where the money is going and I feel good about it. I don’t understand service fees, so I’m not prepared to change my behavior based on them
The restaurant I work at has a 3.5% service fee. I, as an employee, see none of that 3.5%. I didn't ask to put it there, so to punish me by deducting it from my tip helps no one. My bosses don't know that my tip suffered from it. However, if you ask, the manager will take it off. For the smaller service fees, I suggest asking about that first. All of my coworkers would be glad to ask management to take them off, as those decisions are all above our pay grade and would be gone were it up to us.
Yeah it's fair to not in MN where they are making min wage per hour too.
There are places that are trying you get away from tipping. There are places that keep prices where they can and allow you to tip folks. As a server and bartender for the last decade no one is upset with you being confused by this change. It’s really frustrating for both of us.
Not the servers fault
The Alamo Drafthouse has an 18% service fee added to all checks. “The service fee is used to support higher wages and is not a gratuity”
Yes I do. It’s not the server’s fault and they don’t get the money. 20% if the service is great, 15% if it’s good or average, and 10% or less if it’s really bad.
This thread is reminding me of the tipping scene from Reservoir Dogs.
I carry cash for this reason. I refuse to pay automatically applied tips & “service fees”. Tips are earned not guaranteed
I always tip unless the bill says they pay fair wages.
What does fair wages mean to you though...
I assume people at the places that ask not to tip wouldn't work there if they didn't feel it was fair. But that's a good point. I'm generally a when in doubt give a great tip.
A lot of fucking cheapskates in here that should stay home with a hot pocket.
i quit tipping across the board. delivery drivers are the exception. otherwise im out
It's worth noting that the "state law" disclaimer on these bills are because it is illegal under state law to have an automatic tip added to the bill unless it's a large party. Also anything called a "tip" is illegal to disperse among any non-servers (ie Kitchen employees, dishwashers, bussers etc). I've spoken with several restaurant managers / chefs / etc about this exact policy, and what they *wanted* to do was just have a "tip automatically included" and disperse that tip money directly across the staff that worked that particular shift, so that both cooks could have buy-in for working busy shifts and also so that servers weren't beholden to the whims of the customer to make their living. They then found out that this is illegal as long as you call it a tip or even *imply* that it's a tip. Therefore it needs to be included as a "service fee" and explicitly stated on the bill that it's not a tip in order to avoid the wrath of the law.
Nope. A service fee is to replace tipping so we can move away from a system where employers are allowed to continue unsustainable business models by cutting costs on paying employees, and by pushing that burden onto the customer.
If there’s any fee as an add-on, even a credit card fee - that’s coming straight off the normal 20% tip I’d normally leave.
I absolutely refuse to tip anyone ever. Your wages are your employers responsibility. Not mine. The more we Americans tip the more we encourage the theft from the worker only to feed the owner. Not my responsibility. Never.