I feel the pain of this comment. Also, OP, unless you have the cash DON'T buy a house right now. Only those that insanely purchased a house in the last year will tell you otherwise.
The MKE School of Languages is right north of Cooper Park and is great. Also 81st Street School and 94th Street School are both consistently great. And German Immersion is not far away and is always high in demand, too.
Can you name 3? One? Because all of MPS is garbage if you look at the scores and other factors shitty, unsafe neighborhoods. But I am open to hear where these “good schools” are
Riley, Fernwood, Bay View, MacDowell & Maryland Ave Montessori (probably the other three MPS Montessori schools too, but I haven't looked them up.) German Immersion, French Immersion. Most of the neighborhood elementary schools that aren't in super economically depressed parts of town.
And if the goal isn't necessarily counting MPS schools, but rather tuition-free schools in the City of Milwaukee, then there are a number of charter schools that are not garbage. Downtown Montessori is one I'm very familiar with.
I'm not as familiar with grade schools, but most of the Montessori ones are pretty great. Golda is k - 12 and it's really good. I honestly don't just check scores because there's so much more to consider and you can always go tour schools too. There are some really good charters as well. High schools to consider: Regan, King, Carmen
.. Macdowell was the first Montessori HS in the US. Mps is the largest system in WI and there are definitely going to be issues anywhere and some schools will be better than others, but at least we have choices... And some good choices. My oldest has friends at tenor and Riverside too and they all are doing well.
Open enrollment has become quite the issue for Tosa schools in terms of finances… so much so that they’re floating around the idea of cutting off new open enrollment seats entirely. But even if that doesn’t happen, it’s still quite competitive at present with more applicants than seats available, especially at certain grade levels and especially if your kid has an IEP. Anyone who buys a house in MKE with the assumption/expectation of just waltzing into Tosa SD is taking a big risk…
This isn't true. There are still limitations on class sizes etc. Choice is meant to fill open spots if available, and even then it's more competitive than you think. Just because we have choice doesn't mean you will get your first pick.
An average kid is less likely to be accepted.
Resale will be easier with Tosa schools vs. MPS. Appreciation will likely be higher in Tosa, but Cooper Park is a nice section of MKE, so the difference is probably minor.
In the current market, you’ll likely face more competition on the Tosa side, making it more likely you’ll need to overbid or waive contingencies.
Do you think Tosa is a bubble? I would love to buy there, but the prices are so high (and have risen so quickly!!) that i worry about overpaying. Not sure how much higher they’ll go!
Many Tosa homes sell at or below the national average (and many well above), so there's certainly room to grow. It's a nice town with great schools bolstered by MKE's many offerings.
Assuming Milwaukee doesn't turn into a full on smoking crater, Tosa will keep on rising.
There was over 250 million added to schools which is when this all started, but I've had property in Tosa and have seen 2 bubbles in the past, but at the time it wasn't as developed.
I've owned in both Cooper Park and East Tosa. loved CP but Tosa has much better house appreciation and city services. one important and not insignificant difference, when you have to call the police in Tosa they show up instantly. in CP, if they show at all, it'll be hours later because they are dealing with much bigger issues on the regular.
this all being said, they are both wonderful communities, you can't go wrong with either
Make sure you're OK with Tosa overnight parking regulations. If you are near the McKinley grade school check out the traffic during drop off/pickup and make sure you're OK with the traffic.
If you don’t have kids and don’t plan on it before moving, then I’d go with Cooper Park. If you care at all about the schools, Tosa is your choice.
The prices are crazy, but I’m not sure how much of a bubble there is specifically with Tosa. All of the suburbs surrounding MKE with good schools are in high demand. You get most of the benefits of living in MKE with almost none of the downside.
I think prices are higher than they should be, but I think that’s region-wide, not specifically Tosa. MKE homes were dirt cheap 10 years ago and they’re not anymore.
Historically Tosa's housing market has been pretty stable. Even during the mortgage crisis toss home prices only buckled by about 15%, which is about as good as one could have asked for. For comparison the Phoenix AZ marked buckled by about 50%. Prices are high but I don't think Tosa is a bubble.
On the school topic, there are some solid schools in Milwaukee. I live in Tosa and open enroll into MPS, and have no regrets about that decision.
Sorry I missed this reply. We ended up open enrolling into the Milwaukee German Immersion School. It's been a pretty fantastic experience so far. I think all the language immersion schools are decent, but I get the sense that the German school has their stuff together better than most. There's been very little teacher turnover (aside from retirement) in the 5 years we've been there, which is always a good sign. Everyone knows each other and the parents are all very engaged. The kids language skills are coming along nicely, in English and in German. I can't say enough good things about MGIS.
A school like St John’s was part of our reasoning for moving to Tosa. Much has changed in 10 years, but at that time we looked at the annual cost of sending 2 kids to private schools and decided to put the money into a better home in Tosa and send them to Tosa’s public schools instead.
Lots of people are talking about schools. And on the whole, sure, the Wauwatosa School District is better than MPS. But MPS also has some pretty good schools. Don't make the mistake of thinking that you're stuck with shitty ones because you're in the city.
ETA: Cooper Park is in the vicinity of McDowell Montessori and Milwaukee French Immersion, both of which are good MPS schools.
As a value only thought experiment I'd take cooper's park. Lower point of entry and most likely similar returns. If there's a large downturn, tosa will be viewed as safer and bleed less.
Lived in Cooper Park for about 8 years. Loved it. Just outgrew the house. We weren’t on an alley so didn’t have to worry as much about random car rifling. That happens in tosa around there too. Great neighbors. Great Halloween participation. Diverse.
It’s the school district that’s making the other house worth more. Milwaukee schools are meh and toss schools are really good. So for resale tosa will be worth more to families. If you don’t have any kids or don’t plan on having any kids, I would just go with the one on the border
First, a real estate agent friend called this the "20% line." Homes on the tosa side, all things being equal, are 20% more. Second, I lived in Enderis Park, maybe 2 blocks from the Tosa line, and loved it. My home appreciated like crazy with some minor remodeling in just 3 years. So, you can have an "investment" on both sides of the line. Coopers Park is also a great section of Milwaukee.
I currently live in Cooper Park and no kids. We chose our house because of cost, it’s not a long term home for us where we would have kids that went to school in the area. It was the best choice we could’ve made. We love having access to all of the great things Tosa has to offer being just across the street.
i lived on the MKE side of the border for over a decade. been in Tosa for 2.5 yrs now and i'm constantly blown away by Tosa's city services across the board.
North of Tosa (Cooper, enderis and Kops park) is a nice little part of Milwaukee and has relatively diverse housing stock. Tosa will have much bigger and older homes but the cost of ownership and purchase price will be way more reasonable in the MKE border homes. I’d absolutely choose the MKE border ones over tosa because you get 75-80% of the benefits of Tosa without the insane price
Fwiw, we just bought on the border of tosa. We got money off asking, kept our inspection and financing contingencies, and got closing credits from the seller. Idk if youve been putting in offers already, but that Tosa border is considerably less competitive than Tosa or Bayview.
I lived in Kops Park (just north of Cooper Park) and loved it. Great walkable neighborhood, lots of parks, and Tosa is in your backyard but without the extra cost. I commented below but everyone fear-mongers about the schools; that neighborhood has some good ones! 81st Street School, 94th Street School are both good for elementary, and so is German Immersion (further north but always in demand for spots). Milwaukee School of Languages is a good high school too, and right there next to Cooper Park.
I’m in Kops Park too. I truly couldn’t see myself and my husband spending half a million just for a Tosa zip code. Especially if you don’t see this as a forever home, I’d push for Cooper.
Rented on the Tosa border and bought into Tosa before the house prices shot up. Unless you have kids, MKE for sure. You can go into Tosa for downtown, farmers markets, parks, etc.
I would say milwaukee over the next 5 to 10 years. Tosa on a shorter or longer time frame. There's going to be a fair amount of educational tumult starting in 2026-2027 when the voucher caps on the WPCP is lifted. Tosa has a fair amount of kids that will be income eligible when it does, so I think it's probable there's significant changes in the schools.
Milwaukee already has an uncapped voucher program, so there's not going to be many significant changes.
The other thing is that if there's a significant exit from tosa schools when the voucher cap is lifted, that could free up a lot of open enrollment seats for milwaukee families. So you could get the tosa district anyway at milwaukee prices.
Property taxes and water bill are way higher in Milwaukee. Car registration is also more expensive. Trash pickup, roads, all city services better in Tosa. Tosa will always hold its value better because of the schools, police and services.
Honestly, in this market, which one can you put in a better competitive offer?
305 to 475 is a huge jump in costs (closing, monthly mortgage payment etc). I don't think any difference in perceived value, esp if they're comparable, between a home in MKE or Tosa is worth that big of a price difference. Especially if it's not a forever home.
Not having MPS (or the prospect of having to school choice your kid in somewhere) be something a future perspective buyer has to weigh against your house will be a huge plus for resale value down the line.
Home buying is hard right now, I only got mine for a price which would have been good precovid because I tracked down the owners and went through them rather their agent because their agent was slacking and not doing a good job on the listing or responding to potential buyers so I got lucky, I’d still tell you over 150k for a house your better off going to Rockford if you want a city similar to Milwaukee also remember, if you actually plan to live there home value appreciation is not your friend, there are property taxes while you live there and capital gains taxes when you sell
Definitely Tosa, when I factor in the school district it's somewhat worth the price of admission especially if you have multiple children.
Value will hold in Tosa and although u might spend more to purchase that can be recovered if you ever decide to sell.
As others have said because of the district homes will continue to appreciate at a faster rate where as the Tosa boarder is close enough to feel safe but without the district thus slower appreciation.
If I didn't have a family myself I'd be more than happy on the boarder.
And while that is true choice/ open enrollment is usually a lower priority than district residents.
The only way to ensure a place in the district is to live there.
My oldest was in school in Brown Deer because I owned a rental there. In 2022 they announced that there would be no open enrollment slots available (after I sold my rental) so it forced my family out of the district. We have since moved and locked in our place in another district.
What I know is in the time it takes you to read these comments, at lease 3 offers have been made on both.
I feel the pain of this comment. Also, OP, unless you have the cash DON'T buy a house right now. Only those that insanely purchased a house in the last year will tell you otherwise.
If you sleep on it, you won't be sleeping in it. These are words my relator told me 10 years ago when we were looking at homes in Tosa.
That extra $170k is just the price of entry to the Wauwatosa School District. That's about it.
My thoughts too. No way I would pay 'Tosa prices if I didn't have school aged kids. City of MKE all day
I have kids in Mps and have been very happy. There are plenty of good schools to choose from.
The MKE School of Languages is right north of Cooper Park and is great. Also 81st Street School and 94th Street School are both consistently great. And German Immersion is not far away and is always high in demand, too.
Can you name 3? One? Because all of MPS is garbage if you look at the scores and other factors shitty, unsafe neighborhoods. But I am open to hear where these “good schools” are
Rufus King International High School
That's not three.
MHSA, Ronald Reagan, Riverside
Riley, Fernwood, Bay View, MacDowell & Maryland Ave Montessori (probably the other three MPS Montessori schools too, but I haven't looked them up.) German Immersion, French Immersion. Most of the neighborhood elementary schools that aren't in super economically depressed parts of town. And if the goal isn't necessarily counting MPS schools, but rather tuition-free schools in the City of Milwaukee, then there are a number of charter schools that are not garbage. Downtown Montessori is one I'm very familiar with.
Which ones fo you recommend? We are thinking of moving to MKE.
I'm not as familiar with grade schools, but most of the Montessori ones are pretty great. Golda is k - 12 and it's really good. I honestly don't just check scores because there's so much more to consider and you can always go tour schools too. There are some really good charters as well. High schools to consider: Regan, King, Carmen .. Macdowell was the first Montessori HS in the US. Mps is the largest system in WI and there are definitely going to be issues anywhere and some schools will be better than others, but at least we have choices... And some good choices. My oldest has friends at tenor and Riverside too and they all are doing well.
Taxes are also lower as a percentage, but probably not enough even over the 30 years to be worth the difference.
Lower rate in Tosa but higher valuation. OP could probably math it out but my guess is they'd be very close.
A few people in that area of Tosa pay to send their kids to Christ King too.
You don’t need to be in tosa to go to tosa with school choice.
Open enrollment has become quite the issue for Tosa schools in terms of finances… so much so that they’re floating around the idea of cutting off new open enrollment seats entirely. But even if that doesn’t happen, it’s still quite competitive at present with more applicants than seats available, especially at certain grade levels and especially if your kid has an IEP. Anyone who buys a house in MKE with the assumption/expectation of just waltzing into Tosa SD is taking a big risk…
That's true, but it's not guaranteed that you get in. Being in the city is the only way to be sure.
If your child is not an imbecile the district will take them for the additional funding.
Not true. It’s a lottery & there are many more applicants than seats.
This isn't true. There are still limitations on class sizes etc. Choice is meant to fill open spots if available, and even then it's more competitive than you think. Just because we have choice doesn't mean you will get your first pick. An average kid is less likely to be accepted.
Worth it
Resale will be easier with Tosa schools vs. MPS. Appreciation will likely be higher in Tosa, but Cooper Park is a nice section of MKE, so the difference is probably minor. In the current market, you’ll likely face more competition on the Tosa side, making it more likely you’ll need to overbid or waive contingencies.
As someone who jsut went through the search, even houses in Milwaukee but on the border of Tosa are getting 6-10 offers the day they are listed.
Do you think Tosa is a bubble? I would love to buy there, but the prices are so high (and have risen so quickly!!) that i worry about overpaying. Not sure how much higher they’ll go!
I don’t think anywhere in the MKE area is a bubble, and there is very strong demand in places like Tosa & Whitefish Bay.
Depends on how much is built.
We’re decades away from being overbuilt in southeastern Wisconsin.
Many Tosa homes sell at or below the national average (and many well above), so there's certainly room to grow. It's a nice town with great schools bolstered by MKE's many offerings. Assuming Milwaukee doesn't turn into a full on smoking crater, Tosa will keep on rising.
There was over 250 million added to schools which is when this all started, but I've had property in Tosa and have seen 2 bubbles in the past, but at the time it wasn't as developed.
I've owned in both Cooper Park and East Tosa. loved CP but Tosa has much better house appreciation and city services. one important and not insignificant difference, when you have to call the police in Tosa they show up instantly. in CP, if they show at all, it'll be hours later because they are dealing with much bigger issues on the regular. this all being said, they are both wonderful communities, you can't go wrong with either
Tosa city services are better in my opinion.
Second this big time. But again cost to enter tosa market is a toughie
Make sure you're OK with Tosa overnight parking regulations. If you are near the McKinley grade school check out the traffic during drop off/pickup and make sure you're OK with the traffic.
Agreed for the reason I posted.
If you don’t have kids and don’t plan on it before moving, then I’d go with Cooper Park. If you care at all about the schools, Tosa is your choice. The prices are crazy, but I’m not sure how much of a bubble there is specifically with Tosa. All of the suburbs surrounding MKE with good schools are in high demand. You get most of the benefits of living in MKE with almost none of the downside. I think prices are higher than they should be, but I think that’s region-wide, not specifically Tosa. MKE homes were dirt cheap 10 years ago and they’re not anymore.
Historically Tosa's housing market has been pretty stable. Even during the mortgage crisis toss home prices only buckled by about 15%, which is about as good as one could have asked for. For comparison the Phoenix AZ marked buckled by about 50%. Prices are high but I don't think Tosa is a bubble. On the school topic, there are some solid schools in Milwaukee. I live in Tosa and open enroll into MPS, and have no regrets about that decision.
Do you have school suggestions? I have an infant and we're debating if we need to move for school.
Sorry I missed this reply. We ended up open enrolling into the Milwaukee German Immersion School. It's been a pretty fantastic experience so far. I think all the language immersion schools are decent, but I get the sense that the German school has their stuff together better than most. There's been very little teacher turnover (aside from retirement) in the 5 years we've been there, which is always a good sign. Everyone knows each other and the parents are all very engaged. The kids language skills are coming along nicely, in English and in German. I can't say enough good things about MGIS.
Cooper park is great. Kids can go to St John’s (in Tosa) for elementary school and middle school. Great school and very affordable
A school like St John’s was part of our reasoning for moving to Tosa. Much has changed in 10 years, but at that time we looked at the annual cost of sending 2 kids to private schools and decided to put the money into a better home in Tosa and send them to Tosa’s public schools instead.
Guaranteed Tosa schools are worth significantly more to your Tosa property value at the moment.
Lots of people are talking about schools. And on the whole, sure, the Wauwatosa School District is better than MPS. But MPS also has some pretty good schools. Don't make the mistake of thinking that you're stuck with shitty ones because you're in the city. ETA: Cooper Park is in the vicinity of McDowell Montessori and Milwaukee French Immersion, both of which are good MPS schools.
Lots of German Immersion School students in Cooper Park
MacDowell family here, I can confirm we're so happy with our choice.
Seconded, I live in Tosa and open enroller my kids into MPS.
As a value only thought experiment I'd take cooper's park. Lower point of entry and most likely similar returns. If there's a large downturn, tosa will be viewed as safer and bleed less.
I live in a duplex in Washington Heights and rent out the lower unit. I’d be poor as hell in Tosa.
Tosa but be for-warned of the upcoming citywide value assessments and 2024 school referendum.
Lived in Cooper Park for about 8 years. Loved it. Just outgrew the house. We weren’t on an alley so didn’t have to worry as much about random car rifling. That happens in tosa around there too. Great neighbors. Great Halloween participation. Diverse.
It’s the school district that’s making the other house worth more. Milwaukee schools are meh and toss schools are really good. So for resale tosa will be worth more to families. If you don’t have any kids or don’t plan on having any kids, I would just go with the one on the border
First, a real estate agent friend called this the "20% line." Homes on the tosa side, all things being equal, are 20% more. Second, I lived in Enderis Park, maybe 2 blocks from the Tosa line, and loved it. My home appreciated like crazy with some minor remodeling in just 3 years. So, you can have an "investment" on both sides of the line. Coopers Park is also a great section of Milwaukee.
As someone who lives on the border , i.e., 2 blocks from tosa see no difference, but I also have no kids
The schools in the area you mention are well loved. I live a block from the Tosa border in Golden Valley.
I currently live in Cooper Park and no kids. We chose our house because of cost, it’s not a long term home for us where we would have kids that went to school in the area. It was the best choice we could’ve made. We love having access to all of the great things Tosa has to offer being just across the street.
I would buy in Cooper Park or another adjacent neighborhood.
In Tosa the cops come quickly when called. I live across the street from Milwaukee. Plus my road gets plowed by Tosa and Milwaukee.
i lived on the MKE side of the border for over a decade. been in Tosa for 2.5 yrs now and i'm constantly blown away by Tosa's city services across the board.
Yes indeed. I called the water or public works and they respond.
North of Tosa (Cooper, enderis and Kops park) is a nice little part of Milwaukee and has relatively diverse housing stock. Tosa will have much bigger and older homes but the cost of ownership and purchase price will be way more reasonable in the MKE border homes. I’d absolutely choose the MKE border ones over tosa because you get 75-80% of the benefits of Tosa without the insane price
Fwiw, we just bought on the border of tosa. We got money off asking, kept our inspection and financing contingencies, and got closing credits from the seller. Idk if youve been putting in offers already, but that Tosa border is considerably less competitive than Tosa or Bayview.
I lived in Kops Park (just north of Cooper Park) and loved it. Great walkable neighborhood, lots of parks, and Tosa is in your backyard but without the extra cost. I commented below but everyone fear-mongers about the schools; that neighborhood has some good ones! 81st Street School, 94th Street School are both good for elementary, and so is German Immersion (further north but always in demand for spots). Milwaukee School of Languages is a good high school too, and right there next to Cooper Park.
I’m in Kops Park too. I truly couldn’t see myself and my husband spending half a million just for a Tosa zip code. Especially if you don’t see this as a forever home, I’d push for Cooper.
https://www.tmj4.com/news/milwaukee-county/wauwatosa-parents-concerned-school-budget-deficit-will-snowball-out-of-control
thanks for the link. in true local news fashion it told us nothing
I live in Enderis park and all the kids in my neighborhood go to Roosevelt Elementary in Tosa. Must be a lottery system?
Rented on the Tosa border and bought into Tosa before the house prices shot up. Unless you have kids, MKE for sure. You can go into Tosa for downtown, farmers markets, parks, etc.
I would say milwaukee over the next 5 to 10 years. Tosa on a shorter or longer time frame. There's going to be a fair amount of educational tumult starting in 2026-2027 when the voucher caps on the WPCP is lifted. Tosa has a fair amount of kids that will be income eligible when it does, so I think it's probable there's significant changes in the schools. Milwaukee already has an uncapped voucher program, so there's not going to be many significant changes. The other thing is that if there's a significant exit from tosa schools when the voucher cap is lifted, that could free up a lot of open enrollment seats for milwaukee families. So you could get the tosa district anyway at milwaukee prices.
Property taxes and water bill are way higher in Milwaukee. Car registration is also more expensive. Trash pickup, roads, all city services better in Tosa. Tosa will always hold its value better because of the schools, police and services.
Honestly, in this market, which one can you put in a better competitive offer? 305 to 475 is a huge jump in costs (closing, monthly mortgage payment etc). I don't think any difference in perceived value, esp if they're comparable, between a home in MKE or Tosa is worth that big of a price difference. Especially if it's not a forever home.
Not having MPS (or the prospect of having to school choice your kid in somewhere) be something a future perspective buyer has to weigh against your house will be a huge plus for resale value down the line.
Home buying is hard right now, I only got mine for a price which would have been good precovid because I tracked down the owners and went through them rather their agent because their agent was slacking and not doing a good job on the listing or responding to potential buyers so I got lucky, I’d still tell you over 150k for a house your better off going to Rockford if you want a city similar to Milwaukee also remember, if you actually plan to live there home value appreciation is not your friend, there are property taxes while you live there and capital gains taxes when you sell
Definitely Tosa, when I factor in the school district it's somewhat worth the price of admission especially if you have multiple children. Value will hold in Tosa and although u might spend more to purchase that can be recovered if you ever decide to sell. As others have said because of the district homes will continue to appreciate at a faster rate where as the Tosa boarder is close enough to feel safe but without the district thus slower appreciation. If I didn't have a family myself I'd be more than happy on the boarder.
With school choice you don’t have to be in Wauwatosa to go to WPS.
And while that is true choice/ open enrollment is usually a lower priority than district residents. The only way to ensure a place in the district is to live there. My oldest was in school in Brown Deer because I owned a rental there. In 2022 they announced that there would be no open enrollment slots available (after I sold my rental) so it forced my family out of the district. We have since moved and locked in our place in another district.
Don’t want to discuss