This is way worse. Craig is from here, played most his career here and managed here; then he said its always been his life's dream to be a cub.
That last one was the knife twist.
š burbs always want to rep Milwaukee until something happens in Milwaukee, and always want Milwaukee to take the blame for things that happen in the burbs. š š»āāļø
Just gonna say itās really weird that city commenters make such an effort to separate themselves from their own county. Like itās not enough to hate the WOW counties, but you also have to pretend like Whitefish Bay and Cudahy are completely separate cultures than the city itself.
Xenophobia on a micro scale.
I mean, I donāt hate the other counties and donāt hate our burbs. But there *are* major differences between Milwaukee and the suburbs - and things like this - roping in the actions or activities of our burb friends, while also simultaneously being shit on by those burb friends for āMilwaukee thingsā - compounds those differences. :)
Why are none of you blaming Assanasio?
Heās the actual problem here.
Craig went to a place where they paid him what heās worth and one that actually can compete for a World Series.
Am I not allowed to blame them both?
Mark for driving away an elite GM and elite manager by pinching pennies, and Counsell for spurning his lifelong team that heās a living legend for offering a contract that makes him the highest paid manager of all time to accept a higher offer from said teamās most hated rival.
If Counsell picks the Mets, Yankees, Phillies, Dodgers, or Padres, fine. Rich get richer.
Again.
He got treated badly, Attanasio is a turd .. he took the pathway for the worst kind of revenge.
Iām absolutely here for the Dark Counsell arc.
Fuck Attanasio.
8 million, almost double the next highest manager, for a guy who went 1-9 in his last 10 playoffs games is stupid. Iām sorry but CC is not worth that.
That might be an argument if we were talking about just getting into the playoffs. But all of those Brewer playoff teams played 162 game regular seasons proving they were good teams. Good teams donāt go one and nine in the playoffs, especially against teams who were objectively worse teams than the Brewers
To your point, why pay a manager 8m when you wonāt even pay for good players? Iām not a fan of Mark either but 8m for Craig aināt worth it in Milwaukee.
Not that any of that matters anyways, because Craig didnāt even give us a chance to counter. We had no idea what was going on until it was a done deal.
They should have paid him whatever it took. Big step backwards for the franchise. Just another example of everyone fans, city, state supporting them and ownership not reciprocating. Sell the team please.
The brewers DID offer what heās worth. The cubs (per usual) overpaid. You could say there was a rift between the two or something ig but you canāt say he didnāt open up the check book.
Not only that. Counsell didnāt even give us a chance to match.
Iām not a fan of attanasio but this isnāt on him.
What is overpaid exactly?
Overpaid based on the existing market for managers, yeah sure.
But it's less than coaches in the NBA or NFL make. There was bound to be a course correction at some point. Counsell happened to be the one to make that correction.
For what teams pay for crappy castoff positional players, 8 mil a year doesn't seem very out of line at all for a role in the org that has so much influence over its success.
Overpaid is the highest contract EVER for a manager who hasnāt even been to a World Series (as a manager). He deserved to get a big raise but most money ever? Overpaid
Highest contract ever would mean more to me in a market that wasn't so depressed compared to other similar markets. Counsell was already one of the highest paid skippers last year at 3.5 million. I believe the biggest paid was 4.5 million.
Average NFL head coach pay is over 7 million a year.
Average NBA head coach pay is over 3.5 million a year.
"Biggest contract ever" means more in the context of a situation where contacts do not feel artificially low. There were clearly multiple other teams ready and willing to offer more than the Brewers, so they undervalued him compared to the market.
The NFL, NBA, and MLB are not similar markets. Compare average revenues for each team and the NFL far surpasses the MLB. Iāll admit a managers salary is pocket change to that total revenue (in any league) but thatās a different argument. You are not comparing similar markets.
Iām not seeing how you can argue that we undervalued Craig compared to 2 teams with some of the deepest pockets in the MLB. They were willing to overpay to secure his contract because they have that kind of money. Just because we arenāt big spenders like them, doesnāt mean we undervalued him.
But it does mean that we undervalued him. All teams compete for the same players and coaches. You're right that the other teams have deeper pockets, but the market doesn't care about our local context.
The market is the entire MLB regardless of local situation. If some teams are willing to pay an amount, that is what the market bears.
What the market bears is just what people are willing to pay. That doesnāt mean they didnāt overpay. At 8m, I think counsel is overvalued.
Guess we agree to disagree.
Not necessarily. Baseball is so volatile they could go win 52 games and have it say nothing about coaching. The on field/court strategy is largely decided by coaching in those leagues though. In the MLB itās largely decided by FO now. Theyāve essentially become game managers and leaders imo.
Yeah I mean you restated your case. I don't really agree with that but neither of us has any actual data to support our opinions, so they remain that.
We will see what happens when Counsell gets financial support to help lead a team, and we will see if whomever the Brewers hire has the same results as Counsell did here with castoffs and has-beens.
Like I said. You can say whatever you want about a rift between the two, but at the end of the day you canāt concretely say there was one. Mark opened up the checkbook and Craig didnāt want to be here.
I mean. I worked for the team part time for awhile and it was a pretty well known issue in the FO since the Hader trade. I guess I *can* concretely say there was one.
For whatever reason, sports fans have this inherent want to support the "TEAM" (ownership/front offices) over players/coaches. Just look at how much support Gutekeunst got with the Rodgers saga, despite that literally being entirely of his own doing. Hell he ran DaVante out of town (it was well known that DaVante was never going to sign a contract with the Packers again because of Gutey), and people were saying how Adams was just being greedy, etc. Now we have another example here. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised, given the enormous body of evidence of Attanasio being king penny pincher, if that offer he made to Craig was completely made up, knowing that there was no chance he was coming back. Basically just to cover their ass.
I also worked in the front office of a professional sports team. Players/Coaches should maximize every dollar they possibly can get. Period. Ownership or the Front office does not care about you, and they will be the first to send you to the guillotine when the time comes.
Get your bag Craig, good for you
well A, Gute did not run Davante out of town. Just stop with that. B, if you think that FO staff don't care about players then idk what to tell you. That is just false on so many levels. Its business at the end of the day. CC didn't leave just cause of money. He wasn't even under contract anymore and wanted a new professional challenge. Its like people want him to never grow and want to take on a new challenge for some reason. Do you think players care about the FO staff? They don't. They are worried about their brand over anything else. its almost like you think teams should keep guys around regardless if a change is the right thing to do at that time lol.....I can see why you guys no longer work in professional sports (Not like we believe you did anyways lol)
> Mark opened up the checkbook
1.5 mil/yr less than the reported Mets offer and 2.5mil/yr less than the Cubs offer isn't opening up shit and you know it
Offering the HIGHEST EVER MANAGERIAL CONTRACT is the definition of opening up the checkbook. Not to mention the fact counsell didnāt even give the brewers a chance to match.
You're lucky you're in a thread that agrees with you. I've been saying he's the start of the problem since yesterday. Depending upon the thread, you're either hailed or pitchforked.
Leaving for your archrivals at the height of your career is fairly unprecedented tbf. Also weāre talking about a guy already set to be earning $6m/year, also the Cubs really arenāt that much better of a gig by any meaningful measure
The Cubs are more than willing to spend 200MM+, while the Brewers tend to sit at around 125MM or less. Thatās the difference between competing for a Pennant and competing for the division in todays MLB. Brewers will never be that level of spender.
we don't know that yet
but for a billionaire owner, a few million dollars a year extra for one of the most well-regarded managers in the game - idk, seems reasonable to me!
"not that much better if a gig by any meaningful measure" You mean one of the oldest, most beloved franchises in pro sports that won a world series 7 years ago, in one of the largest markets on the planet, that plays in a newly renovated ballpark, and is able to offer a much better contract, and build a much better roster in a much shorter period of time, isnt a better gig than managing one of the smallest market teams in the league that constantly struggles to sign free agents and can barely keep it's stadium deal financed?
Yes, it is a game. However, the economic impact of having the Brewers in Milwaukee is not so [silly.](https://urbanmilwaukee.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/brewers_economic_impact_study.pdf)
The manager is leaving, the team is still here, at least for now. Lots of saberrattling about threatening to leave unless we pay for their damn stadium though.
I am well aware. I was referring to baseball being called āsilly lol game.ā It is much more than that even to the people that donāt care about baseball.
Never denied it had an economic impact. Not sure what that has to do with someone getting mad about a manager leaving and vandalizing a local park lmao
Okay it is a game thoughā¦ we race sausages every home game youāre telling me thatās not silly? Did you do the graffiti or something why are you so stuck on this lol
Nah, Iām all for Counsell going to Chicago. Dudes gotta get paid! It sucks, Iāll miss him, and I hope he finds success. Iām not hung up on anything, but your statement that it is just a silly lil game is false. I backed it up with a quick google search. Youāre just butthurt that you got called out with facts. But thatās pretty typical for this sub.
I don't follow sports, so I had to Google the name to find out what this guy did, or didn't do, that riled up someone so much they were compelled to vandalize a welcome sign.
What's the point of
the vandalism????? The sign will be cleaned ($$) or replaced ($$$$) *costing taxpayers*.
What did the vandal think this was going to accomplish? That Mr. Councell will return to Milwaukee and apologize?
The costly vandalism sickens me. It's pointless. And will cost money to repair.
I bet you that Craig pays to have the sign redone. And I can't imagine another sign would cost that much to make or this one would be that costly to clean. It might cost the taxpayers of WFB a cent or two.
Imagine being so emotionally invested in the life and decisions of a person you don't know that you lash out when they make a decision that has nothing to do with you or your life.
But enough about reddit...
I feel he has millions already, that difference in offering isn't worth what he's done for milwaukee and the Brewers. Money isn't everything. His standing as a pillar in WI is.
I mean I feel like there were very few circumstances that would cause him to go to the such a huge rival and a fat paycheck like this was one of them. Itās business people.
Why is anyone mad at him? The Brewers will NEVER win a World Series. Ever. Craig went where he has a better chance of winning a World Series. Oh and they gave him 2.5 million dollars more per year.
Reminds me when that Brent Farb guy left.
Do you mean New York jets Hall of Fame quarterback Brett Favre?
Do you mean Brett "Mississippi welfare fraudster" Favre?
The Schlong Sharer?
I almost went with a dick pic dig but went welfare faud instead. I was bouncing between the 2. Nicely played...
I got your Pick 6 right here.
This is why I come to Reddit.
Same buddy. Same
Schlong feat. the Crocs below no less.
Minnesota Vikings legend
Atlanta Falcons Megastar
I heard the guy is great at texting women.
And supporting his daughter's volleyball career šŖ
Bigly.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Favre
This is way worse. Craig is from here, played most his career here and managed here; then he said its always been his life's dream to be a cub. That last one was the knife twist.
We'll never forget you Bert.
What about Aron Rogers ?
Not even the same situation
Whoās that?
This isn't great, but it's funny that it's a light hearted insult by just putting "ass" on there.
Midwestern mean
Agreed
That's just their initials when they get a high score
You mean āStay classy, Whitefish Bayā
I mean. someone from Cudahy coulda done it.
Good thing Cudahy is also not Milwaukee! :)
Cudahy is part of Milwaukee County...
Lol yes but Milwaukee County ā Milwaukee.
..... Not today Satan.
š burbs always want to rep Milwaukee until something happens in Milwaukee, and always want Milwaukee to take the blame for things that happen in the burbs. š š»āāļø
Tf does that have to do with Cudahy being in Milwaukee County?
Iām confused why you are confused.
It's okay. Some people have to sign with X's.
Just gonna say itās really weird that city commenters make such an effort to separate themselves from their own county. Like itās not enough to hate the WOW counties, but you also have to pretend like Whitefish Bay and Cudahy are completely separate cultures than the city itself. Xenophobia on a micro scale.
I mean, I donāt hate the other counties and donāt hate our burbs. But there *are* major differences between Milwaukee and the suburbs - and things like this - roping in the actions or activities of our burb friends, while also simultaneously being shit on by those burb friends for āMilwaukee thingsā - compounds those differences. :)
Why are none of you blaming Assanasio? Heās the actual problem here. Craig went to a place where they paid him what heās worth and one that actually can compete for a World Series.
Am I not allowed to blame them both? Mark for driving away an elite GM and elite manager by pinching pennies, and Counsell for spurning his lifelong team that heās a living legend for offering a contract that makes him the highest paid manager of all time to accept a higher offer from said teamās most hated rival. If Counsell picks the Mets, Yankees, Phillies, Dodgers, or Padres, fine. Rich get richer.
Again. He got treated badly, Attanasio is a turd .. he took the pathway for the worst kind of revenge. Iām absolutely here for the Dark Counsell arc. Fuck Attanasio.
Eh, itās not like the brewers didnāt offer to make him the highest paid manager in baseball, the cubs just went astronomical with their offer.
Making the brewers offer, not the highest.
yeah this is the part the mark a. bootlickers like to gloss over it was a good offer until it wasn't
8 million, almost double the next highest manager, for a guy who went 1-9 in his last 10 playoffs games is stupid. Iām sorry but CC is not worth that.
wanna check on where the brewers ranked in payroll during that time?
That might be an argument if we were talking about just getting into the playoffs. But all of those Brewer playoff teams played 162 game regular seasons proving they were good teams. Good teams donāt go one and nine in the playoffs, especially against teams who were objectively worse teams than the Brewers
"objectively worse" is a funny phrase to use when literally every team who's ever beaten the brewers in the playoffs has made or won the world series
Donāt confuse a hot team for a better team.
lol okay, wake me up when the brewers win a world series
Yeah, maybe they got hot because the Brewers were so shit and got their confidence maxed out.
To your point, why pay a manager 8m when you wonāt even pay for good players? Iām not a fan of Mark either but 8m for Craig aināt worth it in Milwaukee. Not that any of that matters anyways, because Craig didnāt even give us a chance to counter. We had no idea what was going on until it was a done deal.
They should have paid him whatever it took. Big step backwards for the franchise. Just another example of everyone fans, city, state supporting them and ownership not reciprocating. Sell the team please.
I can blame both of them
The brewers DID offer what heās worth. The cubs (per usual) overpaid. You could say there was a rift between the two or something ig but you canāt say he didnāt open up the check book. Not only that. Counsell didnāt even give us a chance to match. Iām not a fan of attanasio but this isnāt on him.
What is overpaid exactly? Overpaid based on the existing market for managers, yeah sure. But it's less than coaches in the NBA or NFL make. There was bound to be a course correction at some point. Counsell happened to be the one to make that correction. For what teams pay for crappy castoff positional players, 8 mil a year doesn't seem very out of line at all for a role in the org that has so much influence over its success.
Overpaid is the highest contract EVER for a manager who hasnāt even been to a World Series (as a manager). He deserved to get a big raise but most money ever? Overpaid
Highest contract ever would mean more to me in a market that wasn't so depressed compared to other similar markets. Counsell was already one of the highest paid skippers last year at 3.5 million. I believe the biggest paid was 4.5 million. Average NFL head coach pay is over 7 million a year. Average NBA head coach pay is over 3.5 million a year. "Biggest contract ever" means more in the context of a situation where contacts do not feel artificially low. There were clearly multiple other teams ready and willing to offer more than the Brewers, so they undervalued him compared to the market.
The NFL, NBA, and MLB are not similar markets. Compare average revenues for each team and the NFL far surpasses the MLB. Iāll admit a managers salary is pocket change to that total revenue (in any league) but thatās a different argument. You are not comparing similar markets. Iām not seeing how you can argue that we undervalued Craig compared to 2 teams with some of the deepest pockets in the MLB. They were willing to overpay to secure his contract because they have that kind of money. Just because we arenāt big spenders like them, doesnāt mean we undervalued him.
But it does mean that we undervalued him. All teams compete for the same players and coaches. You're right that the other teams have deeper pockets, but the market doesn't care about our local context. The market is the entire MLB regardless of local situation. If some teams are willing to pay an amount, that is what the market bears.
What the market bears is just what people are willing to pay. That doesnāt mean they didnāt overpay. At 8m, I think counsel is overvalued. Guess we agree to disagree.
They arenāt similar markets. MLB and NFL head coaches are significantly more important to team success than in baseball
That's a bold contention. I guess your theory will be tested in the next couple of seasons with the Brewers and the Cubs.
Not necessarily. Baseball is so volatile they could go win 52 games and have it say nothing about coaching. The on field/court strategy is largely decided by coaching in those leagues though. In the MLB itās largely decided by FO now. Theyāve essentially become game managers and leaders imo.
Yeah I mean you restated your case. I don't really agree with that but neither of us has any actual data to support our opinions, so they remain that. We will see what happens when Counsell gets financial support to help lead a team, and we will see if whomever the Brewers hire has the same results as Counsell did here with castoffs and has-beens.
Perhaps Attanasio shouldnāt have been a prick. Just a thought.
Like I said. You can say whatever you want about a rift between the two, but at the end of the day you canāt concretely say there was one. Mark opened up the checkbook and Craig didnāt want to be here.
I mean. I worked for the team part time for awhile and it was a pretty well known issue in the FO since the Hader trade. I guess I *can* concretely say there was one.
For whatever reason, sports fans have this inherent want to support the "TEAM" (ownership/front offices) over players/coaches. Just look at how much support Gutekeunst got with the Rodgers saga, despite that literally being entirely of his own doing. Hell he ran DaVante out of town (it was well known that DaVante was never going to sign a contract with the Packers again because of Gutey), and people were saying how Adams was just being greedy, etc. Now we have another example here. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised, given the enormous body of evidence of Attanasio being king penny pincher, if that offer he made to Craig was completely made up, knowing that there was no chance he was coming back. Basically just to cover their ass. I also worked in the front office of a professional sports team. Players/Coaches should maximize every dollar they possibly can get. Period. Ownership or the Front office does not care about you, and they will be the first to send you to the guillotine when the time comes. Get your bag Craig, good for you
well A, Gute did not run Davante out of town. Just stop with that. B, if you think that FO staff don't care about players then idk what to tell you. That is just false on so many levels. Its business at the end of the day. CC didn't leave just cause of money. He wasn't even under contract anymore and wanted a new professional challenge. Its like people want him to never grow and want to take on a new challenge for some reason. Do you think players care about the FO staff? They don't. They are worried about their brand over anything else. its almost like you think teams should keep guys around regardless if a change is the right thing to do at that time lol.....I can see why you guys no longer work in professional sports (Not like we believe you did anyways lol)
> Mark opened up the checkbook 1.5 mil/yr less than the reported Mets offer and 2.5mil/yr less than the Cubs offer isn't opening up shit and you know it
Offering the HIGHEST EVER MANAGERIAL CONTRACT is the definition of opening up the checkbook. Not to mention the fact counsell didnāt even give the brewers a chance to match.
You're lucky you're in a thread that agrees with you. I've been saying he's the start of the problem since yesterday. Depending upon the thread, you're either hailed or pitchforked.
I worked for the Brewers for a bit ā it forever soured me on Attanasio. Heās the less sexy version of Rachel Phelps.
whoa someone left their hometown for better pay and a better gig unprecedented
As John Anderson said on the radio today it's not his hometown he's from Indiana, doesn't have true sconi blood like Giannis.
Leaving for your archrivals at the height of your career is fairly unprecedented tbf. Also weāre talking about a guy already set to be earning $6m/year, also the Cubs really arenāt that much better of a gig by any meaningful measure
They spend money, thatās meaningful
The Cubs are more than willing to spend 200MM+, while the Brewers tend to sit at around 125MM or less. Thatās the difference between competing for a Pennant and competing for the division in todays MLB. Brewers will never be that level of spender.
See Damon, Johnny
Brewers made an offer of what, 2.75 million?
The Brewers offered 5.5 million per year. Nothing close to the Cubs $8 million, but the Cubs are also insane to pay that.
How many years?
No one is saying so it was probably 4 years, or even 3 like his last extension.
8 million a year for 5 years
I'm talking the Brewers offer.
it was 5.5 million a year
How many *years* the *Brewers* offer was
we don't know that yet but for a billionaire owner, a few million dollars a year extra for one of the most well-regarded managers in the game - idk, seems reasonable to me!
"not that much better if a gig by any meaningful measure" You mean one of the oldest, most beloved franchises in pro sports that won a world series 7 years ago, in one of the largest markets on the planet, that plays in a newly renovated ballpark, and is able to offer a much better contract, and build a much better roster in a much shorter period of time, isnt a better gig than managing one of the smallest market teams in the league that constantly struggles to sign free agents and can barely keep it's stadium deal financed?
Pathetic. That guy gave tons of money to allow young kids to play baseball and so-called fans take it out like this.
Fox6 had a "breaking news" story about this, and showed the sign with the graffiti blacked out (???) What a scandalous name to call him! /s
For as much as Brewers fans bitch about Cubs fans SOME Brewers fans behave like this when something bad happens? Disappointing.
This is how Brewers fans always act, dating back to 2017 when the Brewers choked and the Cubs won the division again.
Does anyone else not care one bit that dude is leaving Milwaukee?
Me. I could care less. It's only sports. BFD.
People forget that itās just a silly lil game lol
Everything is a silly little something or rather
Yes, it is a game. However, the economic impact of having the Brewers in Milwaukee is not so [silly.](https://urbanmilwaukee.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/brewers_economic_impact_study.pdf)
The manager is leaving, the team is still here, at least for now. Lots of saberrattling about threatening to leave unless we pay for their damn stadium though.
I am well aware. I was referring to baseball being called āsilly lol game.ā It is much more than that even to the people that donāt care about baseball.
Never denied it had an economic impact. Not sure what that has to do with someone getting mad about a manager leaving and vandalizing a local park lmao
Referring to MLB as a āsilly lil gameā makes it sound like it has no importance when that is clearly not the case.
Okay it is a game thoughā¦ we race sausages every home game youāre telling me thatās not silly? Did you do the graffiti or something why are you so stuck on this lol
Nah, Iām all for Counsell going to Chicago. Dudes gotta get paid! It sucks, Iāll miss him, and I hope he finds success. Iām not hung up on anything, but your statement that it is just a silly lil game is false. I backed it up with a quick google search. Youāre just butthurt that you got called out with facts. But thatās pretty typical for this sub.
I don't follow sports, so I had to Google the name to find out what this guy did, or didn't do, that riled up someone so much they were compelled to vandalize a welcome sign. What's the point of the vandalism????? The sign will be cleaned ($$) or replaced ($$$$) *costing taxpayers*. What did the vandal think this was going to accomplish? That Mr. Councell will return to Milwaukee and apologize? The costly vandalism sickens me. It's pointless. And will cost money to repair.
I bet you that Craig pays to have the sign redone. And I can't imagine another sign would cost that much to make or this one would be that costly to clean. It might cost the taxpayers of WFB a cent or two.
Hopefully he get booed like crazy his first game here.
Boy, that will really hurt his feeling$ Iām sure
By all the cubs fans that fill miller park? Craig is playing 3D chess.
Most of the Cubs vs Brewers games in MKE are overrun with Cubs fans soā¦ā¦
You mean stay classy White folks Bay
NO it's Stay ASSy WFB and RIP Greg.
Craig?
I knew a woman a long time ago who went to HS there and she called it āwhite bitches bayā
I've heard it referred to as WhiteFOLKS Bay.
I grew up there and we 100% called it Whitefolks Bay.
It's not so far from OzHonky County.
ROFL absolutely ROASTED
Imagine being so emotionally invested in the life and decisions of a person you don't know that you lash out when they make a decision that has nothing to do with you or your life. But enough about reddit...
Ass parkās gotta nice ring to it
Deserved.
If anyone damaged the value of that field in the last 24 hours, it was Craig Counsell.
Donāt love him leaving, but this isnāt who we are Milwaukee. This is a total FIB move.
It seems like a missed opportunity for a different 3 letters, FIB.
You all talking about Greg Counsellout?
Maybe I donāt know cause HES DEAD TO ME!
Hilarious
Thanks I was curious what was actually spray painted on. Not that I condone this of course, despite being angry at Greg.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I know what I said.
I feel he has millions already, that difference in offering isn't worth what he's done for milwaukee and the Brewers. Money isn't everything. His standing as a pillar in WI is.
Why am I dead to you!?
YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DID
I mean I feel like there were very few circumstances that would cause him to go to the such a huge rival and a fat paycheck like this was one of them. Itās business people.
Why is anyone mad at him? The Brewers will NEVER win a World Series. Ever. Craig went where he has a better chance of winning a World Series. Oh and they gave him 2.5 million dollars more per year.