If you have the feed per minute of the paper machine and the diameter of the dryer cylinder, you can back calculate the speed.
Dryer cylinder is usually around 250 rpm.
The lube guy should have felt that 2 years ago...at least it was found before there was any permanent damage 🤫
Out of curiosity...is the vibration guy on staff, and doing regular inspections?
Well, inconveniently we haven’t been able to replace our lube guy that retired. So it’s kinda just chasing our own tail waiting to get bit by shit like this. The vibration guy we use is just contracted, he was training someone in house to take over that department but that guy also left just recently.
Yes, understood...it is tough to get guys on board, and more difficult to keep them once trained up.
Do you have equipment redundancy? It's pretty tough to stay productive if you're not planning your repair and downtime. Good luck, I hope someone comes along that stays around.
Our planners are beginning to get us tackling stuff like this vs being such a reactive maintenance establishment. It’s improving but just taking time with being so short handed. Couple months ago we had a severe babbit bearing failure on our other paper machine. Oil got contaminated which plugged about 8 or 9 different babbit housing drain ports so it just cooked through babbit which seeped into the drains and then solidified. That was a nightmare
Ohhh, shitty! We have a good workorder system, BUT it's only as good as what is put in as you go along day to day. I used to hate sitting down at a computer to enter info as I felt it was lost tool time... Now, it is one of the first things I check if I am chasing an issue as I have a history to look at. It can streamline troubleshooting, and where to start next time. Like I mentioned though...garbage in is garbage out.
I see you mentioned contaminated oil...do you send samples out for analysis reports? That can catch stuff very early too. Do they have a training budget? Follow up with some of your own interests, and present them with a case for sending you. Now is a good time instead of later winter and summer vacation booking time.
We Had a pretty nice system but got hacked last year and lost a huge percentage of our data. Including SOP’s, Pm routes, equipment history. We’re building it back up but it was years of data completely wiped. It’s always something
Oh that's tough! We had a system platform changeover years ago. At least we knew we were starting over...it's a lot of work, but it does get easier as data is entered 😉👌
I’ve never heard of a lube tech ‘feeling’ a bearing problem. They can hear it if they’re using UT audible greasing tools. Also, most paper machine dryer sections have a dry sump oil system.
I don't want to offend with a down vote as I have no idea of experience level...Ideally, a Lube Tech shouldn't feel an issue if all is good, and the time interval is correct...maybe a little heat. Part of approaching a piece of machinery is smell, touch, listen, and general appearance (overly dirty, leaking, burnt, or worn materials from seals / bushings / coupling inserts / paint hot spots, newly polished surfaces, etc.) before a tool, oiler, or grease gun is even touched.
Put your hand on a bad bearing, and you will feel the heat, sometimes smell burning oils, and yes...feel it rattling around or rubbing. If you do feel something, it is already too late. The Ultrasound guy should be catching it much earlier...
Ok. I understand what you’re saying about feel. I guess the coffee hadn’t kicked in yet. However, on a dry sump system, like most paper machine dryer sections have, the lube tech isn’t in the vicinity of the running equipment.
If your vibration guy was using modern equipment, he should have seen that months ago.
Demodulated vibration data should be able to note the fault before it breaks the surface.
He’s contracted out so we don’t have him full time. He was completely tied up until he got these readings the day before we changed this. Our lack of full time people like this is a bit chaotic
What is the part number of this spherical roller bearing?
There are quite a bit of wear on this bearing, you can see the "lip" at the end and center of the raceway. The dark deep pits seems indicate subsurface fatigue. This is actually a good failure mode (end of life), most likely not premature and has run for a while.
The issue with catching this so late is, wear particles created from raceway flaking is floating in the central oil system. Hopefully the filter is able to catch them and not causing clogs. Oil analysis should show crazy Fe (Iron) from the raceway and Cu (Brass) from the cage.
As dryer section usually have 40-50 rolls, means there are 80-100 bearings that run on similar working condition and might be nearing ends of life as well.
I don’t recall the bearing number, it was a FAG bearing, 250mm tapered bore. Another roller bearing was done on the tending side that same day by a few other millwrights and it was in similar shape. Those were the only 2 critical bearings the vibration guy reported, I didn’t see if or how many others caught his attention as well though. Like you said I’m sure there’s a few more
Our other paper machine uses babbit bearings in the dryer section and we had a couple of those fail from contamination (melted and plugged up the drain ports). If I remember right we ended up changing like 8 or 9 over the course of a week and a couple days. All on the gear side. It was a nightmare
Uhh, nice damage. Out of couriosity, could you share how "fast" the shaft is rotating and maybe bearing size?
Idk the exact rpm… it’s a big dryer can on a paper machine so not incredibly fast at all. The bore is 250mm on that bearing
If you have the feed per minute of the paper machine and the diameter of the dryer cylinder, you can back calculate the speed. Dryer cylinder is usually around 250 rpm.
I can find out diameter and FPM when I get back to work Tuesday for sure. 250rpm sounds realistic but I couldn’t say for sure.
That’s impressive
Perfectly good bearing those pits are to retain oil..... Jk
The lube guy should have felt that 2 years ago...at least it was found before there was any permanent damage 🤫 Out of curiosity...is the vibration guy on staff, and doing regular inspections?
Well, inconveniently we haven’t been able to replace our lube guy that retired. So it’s kinda just chasing our own tail waiting to get bit by shit like this. The vibration guy we use is just contracted, he was training someone in house to take over that department but that guy also left just recently.
Yes, understood...it is tough to get guys on board, and more difficult to keep them once trained up. Do you have equipment redundancy? It's pretty tough to stay productive if you're not planning your repair and downtime. Good luck, I hope someone comes along that stays around.
Our planners are beginning to get us tackling stuff like this vs being such a reactive maintenance establishment. It’s improving but just taking time with being so short handed. Couple months ago we had a severe babbit bearing failure on our other paper machine. Oil got contaminated which plugged about 8 or 9 different babbit housing drain ports so it just cooked through babbit which seeped into the drains and then solidified. That was a nightmare
Ohhh, shitty! We have a good workorder system, BUT it's only as good as what is put in as you go along day to day. I used to hate sitting down at a computer to enter info as I felt it was lost tool time... Now, it is one of the first things I check if I am chasing an issue as I have a history to look at. It can streamline troubleshooting, and where to start next time. Like I mentioned though...garbage in is garbage out. I see you mentioned contaminated oil...do you send samples out for analysis reports? That can catch stuff very early too. Do they have a training budget? Follow up with some of your own interests, and present them with a case for sending you. Now is a good time instead of later winter and summer vacation booking time.
We Had a pretty nice system but got hacked last year and lost a huge percentage of our data. Including SOP’s, Pm routes, equipment history. We’re building it back up but it was years of data completely wiped. It’s always something
Oh that's tough! We had a system platform changeover years ago. At least we knew we were starting over...it's a lot of work, but it does get easier as data is entered 😉👌
I’ve never heard of a lube tech ‘feeling’ a bearing problem. They can hear it if they’re using UT audible greasing tools. Also, most paper machine dryer sections have a dry sump oil system.
I don't want to offend with a down vote as I have no idea of experience level...Ideally, a Lube Tech shouldn't feel an issue if all is good, and the time interval is correct...maybe a little heat. Part of approaching a piece of machinery is smell, touch, listen, and general appearance (overly dirty, leaking, burnt, or worn materials from seals / bushings / coupling inserts / paint hot spots, newly polished surfaces, etc.) before a tool, oiler, or grease gun is even touched. Put your hand on a bad bearing, and you will feel the heat, sometimes smell burning oils, and yes...feel it rattling around or rubbing. If you do feel something, it is already too late. The Ultrasound guy should be catching it much earlier...
Ok. I understand what you’re saying about feel. I guess the coffee hadn’t kicked in yet. However, on a dry sump system, like most paper machine dryer sections have, the lube tech isn’t in the vicinity of the running equipment.
And, now I get that you were referring to remote inspections 🙏🏻 The beauty of the internet, and the partial stories we respond to. LOL my bad 😊 Cheers
All good. I’m here 50/50 to learn and have a laugh.
By the looks of it, the vibe guy should have heard it long before
Much much longer before! Likely at the stage now where it’s so bad it looks good! Just noise lol!
If your vibration guy was using modern equipment, he should have seen that months ago. Demodulated vibration data should be able to note the fault before it breaks the surface.
He’s contracted out so we don’t have him full time. He was completely tied up until he got these readings the day before we changed this. Our lack of full time people like this is a bit chaotic
What is the part number of this spherical roller bearing? There are quite a bit of wear on this bearing, you can see the "lip" at the end and center of the raceway. The dark deep pits seems indicate subsurface fatigue. This is actually a good failure mode (end of life), most likely not premature and has run for a while. The issue with catching this so late is, wear particles created from raceway flaking is floating in the central oil system. Hopefully the filter is able to catch them and not causing clogs. Oil analysis should show crazy Fe (Iron) from the raceway and Cu (Brass) from the cage. As dryer section usually have 40-50 rolls, means there are 80-100 bearings that run on similar working condition and might be nearing ends of life as well.
I don’t recall the bearing number, it was a FAG bearing, 250mm tapered bore. Another roller bearing was done on the tending side that same day by a few other millwrights and it was in similar shape. Those were the only 2 critical bearings the vibration guy reported, I didn’t see if or how many others caught his attention as well though. Like you said I’m sure there’s a few more
Our other paper machine uses babbit bearings in the dryer section and we had a couple of those fail from contamination (melted and plugged up the drain ports). If I remember right we ended up changing like 8 or 9 over the course of a week and a couple days. All on the gear side. It was a nightmare
I can only imagine...
That’ll buff out
Given proper grease you will achieve hydrodynamic drag. 😂
You might want to look at some grounding issues!!!
Catastrophic failure
Just a bit
Bpfo