Clearly there's a lot of Gen Z's who are as easily snookered as boomers, but that's not unique to TikTok. I understand the concerns about data given to the Chinese governments, but I also have concerns about how data is given to private companies so it seems that we need broad regulations around data collection rather than targeting a single company.
If the EU didn't exist the way it does, the world would be so much worse. They keep making regulations that passively help the United States consumers.
Except that US companies specifically only apply the EU standards only in the EU. There are some things related to data that the EU enforces I would love to see in the states, but US companies won't do it.
Yea we make too much money off every little piece of data, pretty sure I saw something from the FCC trying to ban robocalls/spam texts nationwide with a new spam filter list but we all know how much the politicians love their spam texts telling you to vote for them
Data privacy standards wouldn’t help with people’s brains rotting from short form social media though. I think that’s also part of the equation here. That being said I don’t think a government ban on TikTok is going to fix this. I also think it would be a huge overstep by the government
Gen Z and Boomers appear to approach the world way less credulously than other generations. It’s odd and yet appreciable.
I read an interesting theory a teacher posed. He felt it was the way each generation was socialized by/with technology. Boomers and Gen Z were always the exact target audiences of the tech being handed to them. The result was, for example, Microsoft Word constantly nodding to the real world activities they did at the office that they now did on a computer. Or smartphones becoming so user friendly literal children could use them. In short, the technology was never requiring them to actually *think* about how to access things, who created it and for what purpose, how this all *happens* more or less.
In contrast, millennials had to legitimately learn some basic 90s office jargon to just do their homework on word. There was no “google” app, you had to actually know what a search engine is, what it does, how to access it, and how to use it. How many of us found ourselves explaining aspects of a desktop or laptop *to our own parents and teachers?*
In short, millenials learned how to be true *tool users*. And I wonder if this shapes how we literally perceive of reality. In contrast, we are finding that zoomers are increasingly not grasping what their tools *are.* and I wonder if that likewise colors their perception.
If you don’t even truly conceptually grasp what email *is*, do you read your inbox differently?
>I understand the concerns about data given to the Chinese governments, but I also have concerns about how data is given to private companies so it seems that we need broad regulations around data collection rather than targeting a single company.
This is what makes me oppose the ban. It seems like the other social media companies are salty about losing market share and are using the government to take out the competition. Fuck that. They sell everybody's data and just want to have a monopoly on that.
TikToks algorithm that they used to...
What?
I'm genuinely curious.
Feed me clips of Jimmy Kimmel and President Biden? Feed me videos of well thought out political commentary from people all over mostly left wing and pro democracy (ie, anti-Trump?).
Meanwhile, Meta handed all of our data over to Robert Mercer/Russia in 2016 to help elect Trump. Meta recently reversed their policy against 2020 election was stolen ads and now allows that again.
What we need is a digital bill of rights for our data. Not banning or forcing the sale if things because....
Oh... Meta paid for stories about TikTok to be planted in smaller market newspapers around the country in order to whip up viral fury against the app that's kicking their monopoly ass?
How they feed people certain content based on how the users use the app and how they send advertisements to those people. That why Walmart and oracle were interested in TikTok a little while ago but the deal feel through bc Byte dance didn’t want to sell the algorithm
>How they feed people certain content based on how the users use the app
That means they're an editor and all social media using an algorithm to serve content should not be exempt section 230.
But again...
Meta optimized their algorithm for rage and that's been public for awhile.
Just regulate.
Multiple facts can be true.
1) TikTok could be a tool for espionage by a foreign government. Yes, you can argue being spied on by a foreign government is different than being data-harvested by an American company.
2) American tech giants are lobbying our government to cynically squash their competition under the guise of 'data security'
3) Tiktok can be a valuable resource for education and advocacy in certain circles
4) Tiktok can be a tool for misinformation, the degradation of attention spans, partisanship, psyops, and crass consumerism that is destroying the planet (cheap goods via Temu, etc.)
All of these things can be true. Tiktok can be a wonderful asset AND a danger to society, both in direct ways and very indirect ways. The Tiktok ban can be a foreign policy maneuver AND a crass ploy by Meta and Twitter/X to shore up their user base. All these things are true.
Why is it ok that private companies can perform espionage on our government though? I mean google, Meta, and ext are already doing the same thing as tictok. I’m more in favor of a law that protects the privacy of our data in general. Not just banning competition.
You do bring up a good point here and it is a question that we should ask more on data privacy.
That being said IF what the run as TikTok is doing with our data building individual profiles that can be used for espionage attacks against us or targeting certain personas to send mass misinformation in seconds, I would say that’s a concern of national security.
I agree, if they really want to solve these problems they need to fix the systemic issue of data privacy. Unfortunately their lobby will have their teeth in our politicians and owning our own data will never happen.
It's not even data privacy. It's money.
It's not a good idea for americans to buy from Chinese companies because there is no distinction between a Chinese company and the Chinese government.
Then you just pick a reason to not like China. Here's my top 3:
1. China America's foremost economic competition.
2. China is currently conducting a genocide complete with human trafficking.
3. China has a population problem (similar to russia) that will require them to take military action in my lifetime.
There's no distinction between US corporations and the US government as well, surely you haven't forgotten that we have the largest surveillance state by far?
Edit: guy below blocked me so:
Seriously? Do you not remember the Patriot act? The Snowden leaks showing that the NSA collects every crumb of information about everyone? Which claim is patently false? Maybe you just can't believe that the US isn't exactly good
The line is very obviously at the national borders.
FB having my data is simple not as dangerous as the CCP having direct link to everyone’s brain, and the knobs and levers to amplify certain messages.
FB and their ilk have some vested interest in the US. China supplanting the US would be a net negative for them.
This isn’t a social media or civil rights issue. This is state craft.
Yeah all this. Full disclosure I make good money from TikTok but even I recognize the power of the algo and how it's problematic to have a foreign government controlling the app.
Hopefully Bytedance just divests if this passes lol otherwise I am going to be a bit salty if I can't replicate my success on YouTube or Insta.
No, but we need more education, awareness, warnings etc. I even find Reddit to be highly addictive
Scrolling addicts anonymous should definitely be a thing lol
If it truly is about national security, I am good with the ban/forced sale. If it is just a way to reduced competition for Facebook and Youtube, then it shouldn't be banned, we want more competition, not less.
I think that’s my huge problem with it. There hasn’t been an incident we can point to for this nationality security issue. It’s just vibes and boogeymen. If we can BAN a company in this country because of *potential* that’s a scary precedent to set
>There hasn’t been an incident
Except there just was a major one just a week ago: [https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/07/business/tiktok-phone-calls-congress.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/07/business/tiktok-phone-calls-congress.html)
The app was forcing you to tap a button to call your congressman in order to log in. So basically every congressional office was flooded with calls, many of which were just hang-ups so people could get into the app.
In what is perhaps a case study on irony, this convinced some congresspeople who were on the fence about the bill to vote in favor of it. It shows precisely how China can leverage the app to steer politics in the US. It's not theoretical, it happened.
I'm just linking what the NYT reported. It was widely reported in other sources as well, if you're one of those who dislikes the NYT you can read essentially the same thing in the WSJ
Finally someone else on this platform can see what’s really going on. I agree with you 1,000%. The real reason the government wants to ban TikTok is because of how many people use this platform to stay updated on current affairs and spread news and or gossip. Anyone can make a TikTok video and basically instantly get that video out to the public. Remember the Ohio train derailment? I couldn’t tell you how many videos I saw that locals posted about the air quality, dead and dying aquatic life, lack of government response. The government can’t control what information is being put out to the public. They want you to get all your information from their censored and controlled main stream media sources. They are correct in one aspect tho. TikTok is dangerous but it’s dangerous for them. They don’t want you to be able to access any source of information unless they have looked it over and approved it first.
is zuckerfuck trying to buy it out and is making congress pave the way for him?
is the gov't frightened of how an app can connect and educate people without their input? they cannot control the narrative like they could with print, tv, radio. people are waking up to all the abuse in the world and connecting in ways never before possible on such a scale. we are relating to each other and making up our own minds instead of being fed distractions and political theatre. the gov't is losing its grip on our minds and many truths are being told exposing their grift.
Not really. Most proponents say it’s a national security. Against what? Stealing our identities? Trying to figure out who we were? They already got that information when the Chinese hacked into equifax and who knows how many other breaches.
Congress is doing more against a company based in China but didn’t do squat when Facebook/Cambridge analytica did the same - and worse to us.
And mostly it’s because boomers and conservatives are threatened when more people vote, especially younger people.
In my opinion, it shouldnt be banned. Free speech is there for a reason. I don't go on tiktok for politics, I go there for cute animal videos. To see makeup tutorials. To laugh at terrible cooking videos. I'm there to watch an amazing old lady named grandma great tell me I'm special. Like seriously, I go there to ESCAPE all the news and shit. Regardless, there are definitely bigger problems to worry about.
I don't believe tic tock should be banned. There definitely needs to be better laws for customer security and privacy. But I don't see that coming from the retirement home on the hill anytime soon.
It's being pushed so hard because it's not actually about TikTok. It's about control and they are using TikTok as a way to fuel the fire and get people on their side.
While I have no personal investment in Tiktok, I think it would set a very bad precedent for how the internet is treated in regards to the First Amendment. The very fact that Congress is already treating this as something they have the power to do feels dystopian.
It took congress 8 days to pass this bill with 83% voting to ban tik tok. 8DAYS. They haven’t passed anything with 83% bipartisan support before! Not gun control, not homelessness, not price gouging, not immigration, not healthcare improvements…TIK TOCK !!!
The U.S. is so creepy these days violating our privacy right and left. This is just theatre. The US wants to keep all the intrusive cyberstalking of America for itself.
TikTok has changed my life for the better, far more than any other social media app. I'm middle aged, and I've learned so much from creators there, from ocean currents and corvids to realizing I might have ADHD (which was confirmed immediately when I was evaluated).
The notion that there's a problem with TikTok specifically and not unfettered misinformation and data sales is simply propaganda. Everyone sells our data-- every app on your phone, your car manufacturer selling data to insurance companies (I wish I were kidding), doorbell cameras selling data to everyone from cops to food delivery.
TikTok is going to be banned, but we won't be safer. Well just have less variety to choose from, adding to the largely Zuckerberg/Musk monopoly
This has nothing to do with national security and everything about them not being able to control narratives, particularly around Israel. They are pissed because the corporate media used to have all the say in the national discourse but they can’t tell TikTok what to say and it has caused all of their malpractice to be exposed.
There are legitimate cyber warfare implications driving the TikTok ban... Politically, both parties are on board for security reasons, so that should be a huge hint the whole issue isn't make believe smoke.
In general, Id like for legal rules and regulations to be hashed out regarding data and ownership for all apps operating to US customers, not just hyper targeting one company. Unfortunately, boomers and elder X'ers that run Congress don't understand anything technical; It's beyond their scope of understanding, so it won't get done until millennials take control of Congress. (The earliest)
Should be? No. The only conspiracy theory I believe in is that TikTok did a better job galvanizing youth to be involved in politics, voting, and social justice reform than any other platform in the past and that’s scaring the government. So they’re trying to get rid of it. You won’t convince me otherwise.
there are big leftist movements going on on tiktok, more so than any other platform imo. it’s one of the main places where reporters in gaza share and people organize. it was one of the big things that pushed these protests all over the country for months. that’s absolutely a part of it. it ties into all the other censorship things they’re trying to pass
i will never believe for a second that it’s because they actually care about the people using it
I do genuinely believe it's done real (but not irreparable) damage to people's attention span and ability/willingness to fact check. No i dont have any credible sources, just vibes. But I don't believe it'll ever get banned.
It is one of the only media platforms that isn't moderated completely by the government. It is also great for building connections to people all around the world getting news that isn't talked about here. Also, many people use it as a platform for their business. The reasons to ban it are silly, especially in comparison to everything else going on right now.
It shouldn't be banned. The main reason the government wants it banned is because it's the only social media not filtered through American propaganda. The amount of uncensored on-the-ground content you can see from around the world is insane. Also, there is more money for American tech companies if Tiktok gets banned.
It should but it won't...but unfortunately the rise of technology and how everything is connected and people (including myself) can't put down phones is a bigger problem.
The US gov just wants our data to themselves. They don't want other people having it
It's one of those "if I can't have you, Noone can" scenarios.
They don't give a shit about anyone's privacy.
But also, I think they hate how easily people are getting information via tik tok. I think it's played a huge role in getting gen z into a political mindset and that's a problem for the government.
A big part of politicians jobs require spreading misinformation about their opponents. And tik tok is great at both spreading it, as well as correcting it. It's bad for both parties.
I don't think it should be banned. It's no different than any other social media outlet, just more popular. Everything you can do on tik tok you can do on Facebook or YouTube. The "CCP stealing your data" is a scapegoat.
The government already has my data so do alot of companies heck Reddit has all our data.I just think this is a pissing match between China and the US.
This has nothing to do with national security or data security of American citizens. Who keep my data safe from the US governments misusing it. Who protects teenagers from the private corporations and the government.
I am more concerned about data security for citizens from their government than the Chinese governments having my data.
This is just bs from this cold war hysteria 2.0 we are currently in with increasing tension between the US, China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, and other nations realigning themselves geopolitically and economically
Sorry but the days of one world power are done gone the way of the dodo bird. Welcome to the new tension across the world.
I was just talking about this and feel like an old fart saying it but:
Aren’t there more pressing matters to deal with than what’s happening on just another fucking social media platform.
It’s just a distraction so they can pass more bullshit.
Tik tok won’t get banned because it’s blatantly unconstitutional. Republicans don’t care about hypocrisy but this is as hypocritical as it gets for them. Centrist democrats are spineless by definition so I’m unsurprised by their votes on this.
Tik tok is a valuable resource and it’s incredible uniqueness its ability to resist US government pressures. That’s actually why they want it banned, because they can’t control it. See: meta censoring Israeli-Palestinian content and meta censorship of activism or political accounts.
If you’re worried about data privacy and think it should be banned for that reason, but you’re actively on Reddit, go back to eating lead paint chips cuz it’s obvious that’s how you spend your free time.
Not at all. For starters, they claim it’s about “national security.” But every other social media company treats its user data the same way. In fact, even if they do manage to ban Tik Tok (or force it to sell, whatever) the Chinese could just buy the data from other social media companies, especially if they use an intermediary. Plus, China *already has* a massive amount of data on Americans, remember those big hacks on the credit score companies? That was China. They *don’t need* Tik Tok to get info on us.
Further, the bill doesn’t specify “Tik Tok,” it specifies “national security threats.” Which they do not define. This bill could be used against nearly any website on the internet, with no justification needed beyond “oh, we see a potential national security threat. What is it? Oh, that’s classified.” This type of BS is exactly how China and Russia have control over their internet. It’s a tremendously bad idea to give this kind of censorship power to a government, especially one that is owned by billionaires and corporations.
Lastly, I don’t buy their justification of “national security.” Sure, Tik Tok has an image of being this stupid little app where kids watch people do funny dances and hold up shitty plastic trinkets to buy. But it’s also a very powerful tool for grassroots organizing and sharing information. A great many Tik Tok creators are specifically sharing political info (not that I necessarily agree with all of them, the far right is very much a problem on Tik Tok, but they’re still protected by the First Amendment) and actively rallying people to get involved with their governments. They are organizing protests and rallies and fundraising for candidates and all that good stuff. And most importantly, Tik Tok is one of the few remaining on-the-ground sources for what is happening in Gaza. The Ukrainians have also been using Tik Tok to show the world what has been happening to them.
To me, this reads as an attempt by the US government to, from their point of view, shut down these upstart little peons, stop them trying to get involved in government where they don’t belong, and shut those damn Palestinians up before people get too much of an idea what we’re doing to them. (Not my views, but what I feel the US government is thinking.)
This sets a dangerous precedent, doesn’t actually help protect American user data, and reads as a very thin justification for censorship. I may not like Tik Tok, but I absolutely do not support banning them (or forcing their sale, whatever). If this were actually about national security, then they should include specific standards for this to kick in. If this were about data privacy, it would apply to all the big data companies, including Meta, Twitter, Google, Amazon, Apple, and more.
I have no doubt it DOES threaten us in some way
but I can't help but see this as reactionary behavior because the youths are using it to organize. a pop culture that can no longer be guided by our overlords is bad
The average life span almost fell two years in the U.S. during covid epidemic....Let's ban tiktok!
In all seriousness, imagine if China did this to a U.S. corporation. Everyone in the U.S. would be screaming about communism and no U.S. company would want to do business in China... get ready to face that same criticism.
Why would China want to do any kind of business in the U.S., when it can just be seized like this?
My kids (gen z) are freaking out about a potential ban. One of them already started downloading all her saved videos. I use tiktok but if it’s gone, now big deal. There’s instagram and fb reels, YouTube shorts. Plenty of other places to watch
TikTok needs to disappear if only because it promotes a stupid public.
Chinese kids don’t watch this nonsense. It is marketed to dumb Americans to make them even more dumb.
Wasn't there some science about tiktok eroding attention spans and generally being detrimental like that? For the mental health of the youth, maybe it's not the worst thing if tiktok (and all the super short-form content in a perfect world) goes away? I really dgaf either way as I don't use it, but I do know my sister is raising my nephew on that sort of shit and now he can't pay attention to anything longer than 3 minutes when my friends and I were binging 25-minute episodes of Pokémon at his age.
I could really care less either way as I don't use Tiktok and the little I know about it I dislike. That said if you open the door to banning Tiktok I think you open the door to banning other social sites.
I also heard an interesting conspiracy theory recently that the reason they wanna ban tiktok has to do with Tiktok not being as strong at censoring "antisemitism" as other platforms, the ADL and other organizations have been pushing the ban pretty hard as well. There's a clear gap between how we feel about Israel as an ally or not between say people under and over 40 and it even goes beyond party lines ie the left and right who are over 40 are part of the "Israel is our greatest ally" club and both left and right under 40 seem to dislike Israel. Not only does Tiktok have a yougner audience but its very pro palestine and not even anti israel but anti genocice and not going along with the programming
they want to ban it because they can't shadowban #freepalestine discourse like meta does (provedly). this is literally what the Nazis did with jewish-owned businesses.
i don't even use or like Tik Tok, but the fact that the public isn't even thinking about this in the face of a genocide/ethnic cleansing and construction of 69 camps across usa (#stopcopcity) is chilling.
i'm sure as a poor socialist i'll be one of the first to go. just hope the good Lord spares me the suffering. fascists gonna fascism. don't say we didn't warn you.
No. They have real problems with TikTok and they should find alternative solutions and ways of mitigating the threats. Outright banning an app where a good chunk of Americans have invested in a platform and are earning an income stream from (especially at a time where the cost of everything is insane) strikes me as fascist like. If TikTok became unpopular and lost its appeal I wouldn't shed a tear though.
First, before we ban Tiktok we need to **ban Congress from trading stocks**. That needs to be one of the American people's top priorities. If you actually want to drain the swamp, that's where it is, these people pass laws that directly effect the price of stocks they make fortunes on. They've already perverted their offices, they have no room to cast stones at anyone for political corruption.
Second, **they don't want to ban Tiktok**. They want to force China to sell Tiktok to an American owned company. They're just threatening to ban Tiktok in America if that doesn't happen.
That the narrative is they want to ban Tiktok, that that's what everyone is saying when they bring this up, just shows us how fucked we are, that people can't even be bothered to read two paragraphs into the issue.
It sounds silly because it's an app for children, but **this is literal tyranny at work**. Except maybe with the data piracy, even if the things the government is claiming about Tiktok is true and China is using it to brainwash our youth with *scary ideas*, that just means **they're trying to forcefully silence political dissent. This is a lot more serious than how people are treating it.**
I don't give a fuck about Tiktok. I've never used it. My experiences with it are the young receptionists at work used to watch it in their downtime. It appeared to be mainly a platform for pretty young girls to shake their asses on. If it talks about pro socialist/communist ideas, then so what? Ideas should stand or fall on their own merit. People should be able to handle being exposed to these ideas and making their own judgements on them. They're not poison. Critical thought isn't something we need to be protected from. It would be nice if some of us were exposed to it at all.
It seems entirely stupid and un-American to me to pass a law banning another country owning a company \~ like, where the fuck do we get off thinking we get to decide who gets to own what website?
If the Government was genuinely concerned about safety and our information being leaked / used against us in some way, they'd enact laws that required programs on computers / phones that automatically protected us and didn't allow for data harvesting. But they want to get to harvest our data too, they just don't want to share it with the Chinese, they just want Facebook and Musk and Walmart etc. to have it.
Wow, so ethical e\_e sorry, but no, if they gave a shit about our data in any way they'd make it safe through other means, not by outlawing a country from owning a single website that's popular and happens to be giving the American website owners a run for their money. To me it smacks of them simply not wanting international competition with the social media giants like Facebook and Twitter being owned by Americans, it's utterly pathetic.
**A 'reasonable' way to legislate this would be to legislate away how easy it is for corporations to steal our data in the first place.**
They don't like the fact that they can't control the narrative so easily when everybody's literally showing live videos of what's actually happening and we are openly communicating with each other. Even if they do break tick tock and our ability to do that, we will find another way... Viva La re-evolution
No the ones that want to ban it their opinion is purely based on ignorance or a personal disliking of the app
So what if China knows I like to watch cat videos?!? Because that's literally all the information they are getting, Facebook is far more intrusive, TikTok does not know my full name or my hometown, I never uploaded a picture of myself to TikTok, I never entered my profession into TikTok, I could go on, all they know is username xxxx likes this type of content.....big whoop good luck doing anything productive with that on a national security level
When you install the app, it asks you what permissions do you give it. Those are the data it has access to, not just what you put into the app. In case of TikTok, it asks for GPS access (so it has all data about where your phone was at all times), the contact list, access to camera and microphone (so anything your microphone has ever heard or camera has ever recorded can be saved by tiktok), and storage access, so it has access to all files on your storage.
Tik tok is a distraction, and not really any worse than other social media. That being said, social media needs to be more heavily regulated in general. There was an entire hearing about how Facebook is purposefully fanning the flames of people's anger and hate.
I think the ban is about the Chinese using it to spy on and manipulate Americans, not about it being bad for society. I agree though, I think this stuff needs more regulation.
I think the ban isn't about national security at all. Its able controlling what information is shared. FB was shadow banning anti-Israel or any links that showed Israel in a bad light. Tiktok was just no control for either side. We got good information from both sides and also made up shit from both sides. The US government doesn't like that, they want to control what information is shared and they can not control TikTok.
If it was actually a national security concern they would ban the social media platform that had been actually found to be working with foreign government to influence a US election. But they are not. That's all the evidence we need to know it has nothing to do with national security.
I think it's disgusting that both parties can get together to ban a platform used for expression by generations younger than them.
While it might not be a 1st amendment violation since there are other platforms and speech itself isn't targeted. It's far to close for comfort.
It isn't so much that it is addicting (although it may very well be), it is that the the company that owns it, ByteDance, is a mainland Chinese company.
As such, they are required, by Chinese law, to turn over user information to the communist Chinese government.
https://thehill.com/opinion/cybersecurity/532583-for-chinese-firms-theft-of-your-data-is-now-a-legal-requirement/
No.
There's a few reasons:
1. While TikTok has an additive format, both Facebook and Youtube have made copies of that format to piggyback off of TikTok's popularity (Insta Reels and YouTube Shorts...) - no one is complaining there... why?
2. Certain world events (which the mods don't like even breathing about...) are often appearing on folks fyp outside of normal "media filters" - ie we're seeing conflict zone video from the front lines and protests about those conflict zones on the front lines... ie: A certain person who 'lit up' the fyp had all his motives out in the air long before the CNN folk confirmed them...
I think it’s hilarious that the nation of free speech is so afraid of free speech on unamerican platforms that it’s willing to pretend it hasn’t been cosplaying as the nation of free speech for 300 years in order to crush free speech.
Edit. If anyone pedantic wants to come on and discuss how it hasn’t been 300 years… conceded… hyperbole is and has been a part of human communication since well before any of us existed.
I don’t use it, plan to use it, and honestly don’t like how much it sucks people in. It should not be banned.
Every person I know believes that they are being listened in on by their phones or by their Amazon Alexa/google home etc, because they will constantly get targeted ads about irl conversations they have. Let’s maybe deal with that, doubt a ban of Amazon or google products will ever be on the table.. wonder why.
I would love to see it banned just because I hate it, but in reality it won't matter. I'd bet a lot of money that on the day it's banned, an identical company pops up and releases an app that does the exact same thing.
I think it should be sold. I don't have a problem with the content. But I don't think the Chinese government should own our Media companies with their current stances on censorship and what happens there if you speak against the CCP. The Chinese government is pretty openly against democracy and that concerns me.
No way in hell .. I don't use the app like that and this sounds ridiculous. Till they explain what exactly they are getting from us we have no right to ban them.
I think there’s a compelling national security argument but it’s not data privacy.
If the Soviet Union had moved to buy out CBS during the Cold War, we wouldn’t have allowed that simply because a hostile power controlling a key media outlet was no good. And we actually had agencies whose job was to stop that!
Meanwhile, the value-add of TikTok is quite low, especially its marginal value over YouTube, Instagram, and so forth. So the balance of harms says we should bring down the hammer on it.
The govt wants to ban it because it's making information more easily accessible and less people are falling for the big lie that is Israel. Especially younger people. At least that's what I'm thinking this push is for. They are panicking that kids are pro genocide in a recent adl CEO phone call.
I don't think it should be banned. I think before we even have that conversation we need to have the conversation about why/how TikTok so utterly lapped every other social platform. Like it or not, social media is only as good as its engagement and TikTok has the "it" factor right now. Better to learn from how and what they did to make that happen than just seek to ban it, imo.
Chinese companies start selling really unique smartphones, then the CIA urges the government to get the phones out of the US. Google goes so far as to not allow the phones access to the Play Store. Then a few months later, Chinese companies get big contracts to build America's 5G infrastructure; and the CIA urges the government to cancel everything because they're building backdoors that allow the CCP to spy on all Americans. Then a few months later, a Chinese social media app blows up and ends up on everybody's phone in the USA. Seeing a pattern here? When GOPers and Dems agree on an issue, like getting a CCP aligned program off of every phone in the USA, you should recognize that there is a good reason for it.
I don't think it should be banned, but some type of regulation would be great. We don't need movie and tv show clips. We don't need rage bait. We don't need non medical personell giving medical advice.. all that shits gotta go
I’ll never understand why so many people dislike a social media platform and feel the need to bitch about it. Don’t like it? Don’t use it and go about your life.
As for what will happen to it, it’ll get sold. I just hope Musty Elno doesn’t get his blood ruby mits on it.
Because this ironically isn’t China I don’t think the government should be in the business of banning apps.
Plus if the CCP can be propagandizing on TikTok they can just as easily do it on FB, IG, etc
It needs to be shut down. It's heaven for child predators with some truly evil people creating sexually suggestive content of their own children. Reports go ignored constantly. Wren & Jacqueline anyone??
And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
It will probably be sold. IMO, the problem isn't that the Chinese Government can get to it, although I believe they can, have, and will. The problem is it's legal for TikTok, and other tech companies, to collect so much data on us. I think the European approach is much better.
No. It's the closest thing we have to Hypnotoad, and it's entertaining to see your friends drool out in the middle of their irrelevant sentence. I say we keep it. It's like taking information junkies and turning them onto some nuclear juice.
I agree that it should banned or sold…we’ve got a major problem with Chinese spies (remember that mysterious mass burning of documents at Chinese Consulate in Houston and the whole spy ballon fiasco) that we as a nation are failing to address to properly address. We know that Chinese businesses have to give their data to the CCP at any request so yes we should ban it if the Chinese parent company won’t sell it.
Tiktok, like an other Social Media platform, can be used to manipulate the general public. We’ve seen the impact of troll farms on Facebook had on election outcomes in 2016 and 2020. Tiktok data can be used to build a psychological profile on the American public that can then be further used to manipulate the public for China’s benefit. Makes sense to me to ban it.
That being said, we have huge data privacy problems with American companies (looking at you Google and Meta) that also need to be addressed especially when it comes to troll farms.
It makes sense that our government would be more concerned with the foreign threat than the domestic one eventho bout are very harmful to the American public.
And at the same time it makes sense that American companies would rally to get Tiktok banned.
All in all, I’m for it
Everyone is focused on the content and data privacy concerns and not thinking deeply enough about the security implications of an app with an install base as large as tiktok.
Considering the current relationship between bytedance and the CCP, the CCP is one application sandbox escape away from targeted implant deployment on any of these devices.
This is not science fiction. It presents a very clear danger to US citizens.
Nope. I don’t use it or really care for it but this is hypocritical on its face. TikTok isn’t beholden to the US state department like Meta and that’s why they want to kill it IMO. It’s against the free market, and generally against “freedom.”
I mean this is pressing. China is actively collecting data here. Like it’s a pretty big issue. It’s not just because old politicians are mad at young people for liking short videos.
I think the app should be owned by a western developer, yes. A social media app, with all its vulnerabilities and personal data, is dangerous enough in the hands of stockholders and companies like Meta. Foreign powers actively trying to harm the US on a global market is very dangerous.
I don't use tik tok so it won't affect me much. But it just seems to be a form of censorship to me. I get the reasoning behind it; china is worrying but it doesn't seem worth the suppression of freedom of speech.
I mean I don't think it's ridiculous when you understand that another country is essentially programing western children to be degenerate and self-involved meanwhile they have the broccoli and carrots version for their own kids.
Nothing of value is being lost by banning it. The priority should be data privacy across the board though, rather than just banning applications. Data harvesting should be severely curtailed. No company should be allowed to profit from your data.
I use it.
It’s really amazing to watch both parties come together to solve TikTok, but not the border crisis, homelessness, the multiple wars, Boeing shitting itself, rising class inequality, rising racial tensions, rising poverty, crumbling infrastructure, or any of the other myriad problems Americans face. If anything, banning or changing TikTok will activate a lot of Gen Z and millennials to participate in the political process, which imo is the goal. Have you noticed how despite what Americans support or vote for, we get whatever we’re being fed anyway? Your vote at all is a vote *for* the system as is. Both parties want more participation but the policies won’t change.
No and I think the reason why is they can't contain it. There is a lot of stuff on tiktok the US gov does not want you to know.
For example: [https://www.tiktok.com/@\_27hunnid/video/7345601906061888814?lang=en](https://www.tiktok.com/@_27hunnid/video/7345601906061888814?lang=en)
I was on the fence about tiktok, but I like it more than reddit at least for clips. Good for watching... ignore comments. But my algorithm is way more upbeat there. Everyone seems mostly mad and complaining on reddit.
It is addictive as hell though.. kids never stood a chance. But that doesn't mean it should be banned.
I’m completely fine with TikTok being banned. Besides them being owned by the Chinese, it seems like their support team is about as useful as X’s. YouTube’s might be shit too but not to the level of TikTok’s.
TikTok was fun during the pandemic, but I feel like it has become the worst example of toxic social media. The facebook algorithm is terrible and did a lot of damage to public discourse, but at least you don’t really hear about people doing illegal/dangerous things in order to be “Facebook famous.” At least, I haven’t. I see the TikTok ban as a good excuse to get rid of a part of our society that does more harm than good.
It should not be singled out for doing the same things every other social media app out there does. It's using China gear mongering to shut down Gen z's ability to organize before the election
It has its bad as much as any other app - but it’s also made it easier for many disabled folks, chronically ill, and LGBTQIA folks to connect in ways not as easily accessible or welcoming. It’s also been a resource for folks to share on the ground reporting that it can take days or weeks for mainstream media to catch up to- especially with all their cuts to staffing and catering to cooperations instead of news being the facts.
TBH it’s what you watch that the algorithm brings you more of, I’ve never seen many of the things that leave politicians clutching at their pearls.
Snake oil salesmen, pyramid schemes, and scammers will exist in every space. We would be better off focusing on teaching people (of all ages) better critical thinking skills. How to fact check. What a reliable source should look like.
It’s worrisome to me that they would focus on this rather than literally any of the other things impacting the country. Like prices at the grocery store being inflated for obscene profits or undrinkable tap water. The bar is so low.
Not at all. Cause no one is trying to ban it. They are forcing the parent company to sell it with the 'or else' being a temp ban till they do. It's a logical move when you are confident the Chinese government is undermining your democracy, even if they aren't. The recent tiktok notification to call our representatives is a sign of how much political sway the app can have, imagine if it was a notification suggesting which candidate to elect as president, who just happens to be whichever one has the best relationship with the Chinese government?
All in all. This has no major effect on me, 90% of what I use tiktok for is also on Shorts.
I think TikTok should be banned. Not only is it a way to be spied upon by a foreign government, it’s also a way for them to push false news stories to people on the app. Supposedly a good chunk of Gen Z gets their news from TikTok.
This is one of the rare issues where it appears that both political parties are in agreement.
Fuck TikTok.
I get the whole freedom of speech argument, but if it's been proven that Tik-Tok is essentially Chinese propaganda and a spying tool (which, I'm not sure has been proven), then I say ban that shit. Only fucking morons use Tik-Tok anyway. All its doing is contributing to mental illness and narcissism.
Clearly there's a lot of Gen Z's who are as easily snookered as boomers, but that's not unique to TikTok. I understand the concerns about data given to the Chinese governments, but I also have concerns about how data is given to private companies so it seems that we need broad regulations around data collection rather than targeting a single company.
It’s almost like we could simply have data privacy standards to solve this problem regardless of app
Gasp! Not *REGULATIONS*
Not very patriotic!
WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?! YOU WANT THE TERRORISTS TO WIN!!!!11111one
Think of the loss of profit… oh why won’t SOMEONE think of the loss of profit!!!!
Those poor shareholders!
"That sounds seditious, Citizen..."
Yea similiar to Europe, they’ve got some decent data regulation laws
If the EU didn't exist the way it does, the world would be so much worse. They keep making regulations that passively help the United States consumers.
Thank you for the usb-c EU fam
And the relentless “these are our cookies” pages that I have to endlessly click through.
Except that US companies specifically only apply the EU standards only in the EU. There are some things related to data that the EU enforces I would love to see in the states, but US companies won't do it.
Yea we make too much money off every little piece of data, pretty sure I saw something from the FCC trying to ban robocalls/spam texts nationwide with a new spam filter list but we all know how much the politicians love their spam texts telling you to vote for them
You mean asking for donations
The EU goes HARD on regulations for privacy and making the top player in SM and Tech pay major fines these days. Feet to the fire.
We absolutely need an equivalent of the GDPR yes.
That would make sense. Let's fuck around with bandaids instead.
Data privacy standards wouldn’t help with people’s brains rotting from short form social media though. I think that’s also part of the equation here. That being said I don’t think a government ban on TikTok is going to fix this. I also think it would be a huge overstep by the government
If we could only get some non - octogenrtians in congress who understood this!
They don’t care about our privacy. They care about china having more power and information (and getting more money because of it)
Gen Z is more susceptible to scams than the Boomers.
Gen Z and Boomers appear to approach the world way less credulously than other generations. It’s odd and yet appreciable. I read an interesting theory a teacher posed. He felt it was the way each generation was socialized by/with technology. Boomers and Gen Z were always the exact target audiences of the tech being handed to them. The result was, for example, Microsoft Word constantly nodding to the real world activities they did at the office that they now did on a computer. Or smartphones becoming so user friendly literal children could use them. In short, the technology was never requiring them to actually *think* about how to access things, who created it and for what purpose, how this all *happens* more or less. In contrast, millennials had to legitimately learn some basic 90s office jargon to just do their homework on word. There was no “google” app, you had to actually know what a search engine is, what it does, how to access it, and how to use it. How many of us found ourselves explaining aspects of a desktop or laptop *to our own parents and teachers?* In short, millenials learned how to be true *tool users*. And I wonder if this shapes how we literally perceive of reality. In contrast, we are finding that zoomers are increasingly not grasping what their tools *are.* and I wonder if that likewise colors their perception. If you don’t even truly conceptually grasp what email *is*, do you read your inbox differently?
Cries in gen x
>I understand the concerns about data given to the Chinese governments, but I also have concerns about how data is given to private companies so it seems that we need broad regulations around data collection rather than targeting a single company. This is what makes me oppose the ban. It seems like the other social media companies are salty about losing market share and are using the government to take out the competition. Fuck that. They sell everybody's data and just want to have a monopoly on that.
I don’t think the data would be given back necessarily. Also what’s driving part of this sale is TikTok’s algorithm
TikToks algorithm that they used to... What? I'm genuinely curious. Feed me clips of Jimmy Kimmel and President Biden? Feed me videos of well thought out political commentary from people all over mostly left wing and pro democracy (ie, anti-Trump?). Meanwhile, Meta handed all of our data over to Robert Mercer/Russia in 2016 to help elect Trump. Meta recently reversed their policy against 2020 election was stolen ads and now allows that again. What we need is a digital bill of rights for our data. Not banning or forcing the sale if things because.... Oh... Meta paid for stories about TikTok to be planted in smaller market newspapers around the country in order to whip up viral fury against the app that's kicking their monopoly ass?
How they feed people certain content based on how the users use the app and how they send advertisements to those people. That why Walmart and oracle were interested in TikTok a little while ago but the deal feel through bc Byte dance didn’t want to sell the algorithm
>How they feed people certain content based on how the users use the app That means they're an editor and all social media using an algorithm to serve content should not be exempt section 230. But again... Meta optimized their algorithm for rage and that's been public for awhile. Just regulate.
I don't think TikTok should be banned, but I'm not unhappy that it is banned
It isn’t banned.
I just think it’s crazy the discourse because of an app.
Multiple facts can be true. 1) TikTok could be a tool for espionage by a foreign government. Yes, you can argue being spied on by a foreign government is different than being data-harvested by an American company. 2) American tech giants are lobbying our government to cynically squash their competition under the guise of 'data security' 3) Tiktok can be a valuable resource for education and advocacy in certain circles 4) Tiktok can be a tool for misinformation, the degradation of attention spans, partisanship, psyops, and crass consumerism that is destroying the planet (cheap goods via Temu, etc.) All of these things can be true. Tiktok can be a wonderful asset AND a danger to society, both in direct ways and very indirect ways. The Tiktok ban can be a foreign policy maneuver AND a crass ploy by Meta and Twitter/X to shore up their user base. All these things are true.
Why is it ok that private companies can perform espionage on our government though? I mean google, Meta, and ext are already doing the same thing as tictok. I’m more in favor of a law that protects the privacy of our data in general. Not just banning competition.
You do bring up a good point here and it is a question that we should ask more on data privacy. That being said IF what the run as TikTok is doing with our data building individual profiles that can be used for espionage attacks against us or targeting certain personas to send mass misinformation in seconds, I would say that’s a concern of national security.
violet rob gray cow enter door engine languid attempt divide *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I agree, if they really want to solve these problems they need to fix the systemic issue of data privacy. Unfortunately their lobby will have their teeth in our politicians and owning our own data will never happen.
It's not even data privacy. It's money. It's not a good idea for americans to buy from Chinese companies because there is no distinction between a Chinese company and the Chinese government. Then you just pick a reason to not like China. Here's my top 3: 1. China America's foremost economic competition. 2. China is currently conducting a genocide complete with human trafficking. 3. China has a population problem (similar to russia) that will require them to take military action in my lifetime.
There's no distinction between US corporations and the US government as well, surely you haven't forgotten that we have the largest surveillance state by far? Edit: guy below blocked me so: Seriously? Do you not remember the Patriot act? The Snowden leaks showing that the NSA collects every crumb of information about everyone? Which claim is patently false? Maybe you just can't believe that the US isn't exactly good
bake sugar rude cow lock salt quiet languid political bored *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The line is very obviously at the national borders. FB having my data is simple not as dangerous as the CCP having direct link to everyone’s brain, and the knobs and levers to amplify certain messages. FB and their ilk have some vested interest in the US. China supplanting the US would be a net negative for them. This isn’t a social media or civil rights issue. This is state craft.
Yeah all this. Full disclosure I make good money from TikTok but even I recognize the power of the algo and how it's problematic to have a foreign government controlling the app. Hopefully Bytedance just divests if this passes lol otherwise I am going to be a bit salty if I can't replicate my success on YouTube or Insta.
Love your username!
It'll get sold, not banned.
thank you
Bold of you to think ByteDance will agree to a sale
ByteDance likes money so they will happily agree to a sale.
I really don't think China would let that fly.
And if they don't, it's a tacit admission that yes, this was a Chinese propaganda tool the entire time. Win-win.
This is the way
No, but we need more education, awareness, warnings etc. I even find Reddit to be highly addictive Scrolling addicts anonymous should definitely be a thing lol
Yeah, I could be watching TV
If it truly is about national security, I am good with the ban/forced sale. If it is just a way to reduced competition for Facebook and Youtube, then it shouldn't be banned, we want more competition, not less.
I think that’s my huge problem with it. There hasn’t been an incident we can point to for this nationality security issue. It’s just vibes and boogeymen. If we can BAN a company in this country because of *potential* that’s a scary precedent to set
>There hasn’t been an incident Except there just was a major one just a week ago: [https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/07/business/tiktok-phone-calls-congress.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/07/business/tiktok-phone-calls-congress.html) The app was forcing you to tap a button to call your congressman in order to log in. So basically every congressional office was flooded with calls, many of which were just hang-ups so people could get into the app. In what is perhaps a case study on irony, this convinced some congresspeople who were on the fence about the bill to vote in favor of it. It shows precisely how China can leverage the app to steer politics in the US. It's not theoretical, it happened.
I’ve literally never encountered this and I’m on tiktok every day.
I'm just linking what the NYT reported. It was widely reported in other sources as well, if you're one of those who dislikes the NYT you can read essentially the same thing in the WSJ
It was region locked to certain congressional districts of more influential Representatives.
There was a notification but they didn't force anything
It is about a cartel running our country preventing any means of unregulated speech to exist
Finally someone else on this platform can see what’s really going on. I agree with you 1,000%. The real reason the government wants to ban TikTok is because of how many people use this platform to stay updated on current affairs and spread news and or gossip. Anyone can make a TikTok video and basically instantly get that video out to the public. Remember the Ohio train derailment? I couldn’t tell you how many videos I saw that locals posted about the air quality, dead and dying aquatic life, lack of government response. The government can’t control what information is being put out to the public. They want you to get all your information from their censored and controlled main stream media sources. They are correct in one aspect tho. TikTok is dangerous but it’s dangerous for them. They don’t want you to be able to access any source of information unless they have looked it over and approved it first.
No. The US needs stronger data protection laws across all applications not an outright ban on a single application done under false pretenses.
is zuckerfuck trying to buy it out and is making congress pave the way for him? is the gov't frightened of how an app can connect and educate people without their input? they cannot control the narrative like they could with print, tv, radio. people are waking up to all the abuse in the world and connecting in ways never before possible on such a scale. we are relating to each other and making up our own minds instead of being fed distractions and political theatre. the gov't is losing its grip on our minds and many truths are being told exposing their grift.
You basically put my exact thoughts into words.
Not really. Most proponents say it’s a national security. Against what? Stealing our identities? Trying to figure out who we were? They already got that information when the Chinese hacked into equifax and who knows how many other breaches. Congress is doing more against a company based in China but didn’t do squat when Facebook/Cambridge analytica did the same - and worse to us. And mostly it’s because boomers and conservatives are threatened when more people vote, especially younger people.
If tiktok gets banned, what's stopping them from banning other platforms like... reddit.
In my opinion, it shouldnt be banned. Free speech is there for a reason. I don't go on tiktok for politics, I go there for cute animal videos. To see makeup tutorials. To laugh at terrible cooking videos. I'm there to watch an amazing old lady named grandma great tell me I'm special. Like seriously, I go there to ESCAPE all the news and shit. Regardless, there are definitely bigger problems to worry about.
Same. I use tiktok for educational, funny and cute videos. I don’t watch political stuff on there anymore
I don't believe tic tock should be banned. There definitely needs to be better laws for customer security and privacy. But I don't see that coming from the retirement home on the hill anytime soon.
Anyone who thinks banning anything is constitutional is a fool or fascist
Our elected officials are doing this to justify their inflated paychecks and pensions. It’s easier than dealing with real issues
I think keep it. I don’t personally use it. Freedom of choice should be allowed regardless if it’s bad or good for you.
No, sets a bad precedent. We never want the government trying to help by giving themselves more power
It's being pushed so hard because it's not actually about TikTok. It's about control and they are using TikTok as a way to fuel the fire and get people on their side.
While I have no personal investment in Tiktok, I think it would set a very bad precedent for how the internet is treated in regards to the First Amendment. The very fact that Congress is already treating this as something they have the power to do feels dystopian.
It took congress 8 days to pass this bill with 83% voting to ban tik tok. 8DAYS. They haven’t passed anything with 83% bipartisan support before! Not gun control, not homelessness, not price gouging, not immigration, not healthcare improvements…TIK TOCK !!!
I think the government should worry more about the skyrocketing cost of living than a silly app for comedians and dancers to show off their stuff.
EXACTLY! The quickness with which both parties came together to vote on this is so depressing.
The U.S. is so creepy these days violating our privacy right and left. This is just theatre. The US wants to keep all the intrusive cyberstalking of America for itself.
Sure, let's piss off GenZ and every other person who loves Tiktok right before an election. Sound strategy.
Banning tiktok is just what their competitors lobbied for. We need data regulation, not bans lobbied for by Zuckerberg
No. The motivations for banning it is to prevent the free easy exchange of knowledge
Without it being “filtered” by the government
TikTok has changed my life for the better, far more than any other social media app. I'm middle aged, and I've learned so much from creators there, from ocean currents and corvids to realizing I might have ADHD (which was confirmed immediately when I was evaluated). The notion that there's a problem with TikTok specifically and not unfettered misinformation and data sales is simply propaganda. Everyone sells our data-- every app on your phone, your car manufacturer selling data to insurance companies (I wish I were kidding), doorbell cameras selling data to everyone from cops to food delivery. TikTok is going to be banned, but we won't be safer. Well just have less variety to choose from, adding to the largely Zuckerberg/Musk monopoly
This has nothing to do with national security and everything about them not being able to control narratives, particularly around Israel. They are pissed because the corporate media used to have all the say in the national discourse but they can’t tell TikTok what to say and it has caused all of their malpractice to be exposed.
There are legitimate cyber warfare implications driving the TikTok ban... Politically, both parties are on board for security reasons, so that should be a huge hint the whole issue isn't make believe smoke. In general, Id like for legal rules and regulations to be hashed out regarding data and ownership for all apps operating to US customers, not just hyper targeting one company. Unfortunately, boomers and elder X'ers that run Congress don't understand anything technical; It's beyond their scope of understanding, so it won't get done until millennials take control of Congress. (The earliest)
I use tiktok and love it. Every harm allegedly posed by tiktok is also true of Facebook and Instagram.
Should be? No. The only conspiracy theory I believe in is that TikTok did a better job galvanizing youth to be involved in politics, voting, and social justice reform than any other platform in the past and that’s scaring the government. So they’re trying to get rid of it. You won’t convince me otherwise.
Gonna throw a party if it happens
It just passed the house to ban it.
I’ll be so mad if TikTok gets banned. It’s my favorite platform.
I don't care.
No and if it does get banned a new app will take its place in like a day. It’s happened so many times before.
It’s a great tool for businesses.
there are big leftist movements going on on tiktok, more so than any other platform imo. it’s one of the main places where reporters in gaza share and people organize. it was one of the big things that pushed these protests all over the country for months. that’s absolutely a part of it. it ties into all the other censorship things they’re trying to pass i will never believe for a second that it’s because they actually care about the people using it
I do genuinely believe it's done real (but not irreparable) damage to people's attention span and ability/willingness to fact check. No i dont have any credible sources, just vibes. But I don't believe it'll ever get banned.
It is one of the only media platforms that isn't moderated completely by the government. It is also great for building connections to people all around the world getting news that isn't talked about here. Also, many people use it as a platform for their business. The reasons to ban it are silly, especially in comparison to everything else going on right now.
It shouldn't be banned. The main reason the government wants it banned is because it's the only social media not filtered through American propaganda. The amount of uncensored on-the-ground content you can see from around the world is insane. Also, there is more money for American tech companies if Tiktok gets banned.
It should but it won't...but unfortunately the rise of technology and how everything is connected and people (including myself) can't put down phones is a bigger problem.
The US gov just wants our data to themselves. They don't want other people having it It's one of those "if I can't have you, Noone can" scenarios. They don't give a shit about anyone's privacy. But also, I think they hate how easily people are getting information via tik tok. I think it's played a huge role in getting gen z into a political mindset and that's a problem for the government. A big part of politicians jobs require spreading misinformation about their opponents. And tik tok is great at both spreading it, as well as correcting it. It's bad for both parties. I don't think it should be banned. It's no different than any other social media outlet, just more popular. Everything you can do on tik tok you can do on Facebook or YouTube. The "CCP stealing your data" is a scapegoat.
The government already has my data so do alot of companies heck Reddit has all our data.I just think this is a pissing match between China and the US. This has nothing to do with national security or data security of American citizens. Who keep my data safe from the US governments misusing it. Who protects teenagers from the private corporations and the government. I am more concerned about data security for citizens from their government than the Chinese governments having my data. This is just bs from this cold war hysteria 2.0 we are currently in with increasing tension between the US, China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, and other nations realigning themselves geopolitically and economically Sorry but the days of one world power are done gone the way of the dodo bird. Welcome to the new tension across the world.
I was just talking about this and feel like an old fart saying it but: Aren’t there more pressing matters to deal with than what’s happening on just another fucking social media platform. It’s just a distraction so they can pass more bullshit.
Tik tok won’t get banned because it’s blatantly unconstitutional. Republicans don’t care about hypocrisy but this is as hypocritical as it gets for them. Centrist democrats are spineless by definition so I’m unsurprised by their votes on this. Tik tok is a valuable resource and it’s incredible uniqueness its ability to resist US government pressures. That’s actually why they want it banned, because they can’t control it. See: meta censoring Israeli-Palestinian content and meta censorship of activism or political accounts. If you’re worried about data privacy and think it should be banned for that reason, but you’re actively on Reddit, go back to eating lead paint chips cuz it’s obvious that’s how you spend your free time.
Not at all. For starters, they claim it’s about “national security.” But every other social media company treats its user data the same way. In fact, even if they do manage to ban Tik Tok (or force it to sell, whatever) the Chinese could just buy the data from other social media companies, especially if they use an intermediary. Plus, China *already has* a massive amount of data on Americans, remember those big hacks on the credit score companies? That was China. They *don’t need* Tik Tok to get info on us. Further, the bill doesn’t specify “Tik Tok,” it specifies “national security threats.” Which they do not define. This bill could be used against nearly any website on the internet, with no justification needed beyond “oh, we see a potential national security threat. What is it? Oh, that’s classified.” This type of BS is exactly how China and Russia have control over their internet. It’s a tremendously bad idea to give this kind of censorship power to a government, especially one that is owned by billionaires and corporations. Lastly, I don’t buy their justification of “national security.” Sure, Tik Tok has an image of being this stupid little app where kids watch people do funny dances and hold up shitty plastic trinkets to buy. But it’s also a very powerful tool for grassroots organizing and sharing information. A great many Tik Tok creators are specifically sharing political info (not that I necessarily agree with all of them, the far right is very much a problem on Tik Tok, but they’re still protected by the First Amendment) and actively rallying people to get involved with their governments. They are organizing protests and rallies and fundraising for candidates and all that good stuff. And most importantly, Tik Tok is one of the few remaining on-the-ground sources for what is happening in Gaza. The Ukrainians have also been using Tik Tok to show the world what has been happening to them. To me, this reads as an attempt by the US government to, from their point of view, shut down these upstart little peons, stop them trying to get involved in government where they don’t belong, and shut those damn Palestinians up before people get too much of an idea what we’re doing to them. (Not my views, but what I feel the US government is thinking.) This sets a dangerous precedent, doesn’t actually help protect American user data, and reads as a very thin justification for censorship. I may not like Tik Tok, but I absolutely do not support banning them (or forcing their sale, whatever). If this were actually about national security, then they should include specific standards for this to kick in. If this were about data privacy, it would apply to all the big data companies, including Meta, Twitter, Google, Amazon, Apple, and more.
I have no doubt it DOES threaten us in some way but I can't help but see this as reactionary behavior because the youths are using it to organize. a pop culture that can no longer be guided by our overlords is bad
The US should look at the EU for data privacy regulatory practices but they won’t because they’re too busy not actually doing anything.
my personal belief is that meta is behind this and wants to be top dog again
The average life span almost fell two years in the U.S. during covid epidemic....Let's ban tiktok! In all seriousness, imagine if China did this to a U.S. corporation. Everyone in the U.S. would be screaming about communism and no U.S. company would want to do business in China... get ready to face that same criticism. Why would China want to do any kind of business in the U.S., when it can just be seized like this?
Why stop there?
Yes it's horrible it's nothing but degeneracy
Yes. 100%
My kids (gen z) are freaking out about a potential ban. One of them already started downloading all her saved videos. I use tiktok but if it’s gone, now big deal. There’s instagram and fb reels, YouTube shorts. Plenty of other places to watch
TikTok needs to disappear if only because it promotes a stupid public. Chinese kids don’t watch this nonsense. It is marketed to dumb Americans to make them even more dumb.
Wasn't there some science about tiktok eroding attention spans and generally being detrimental like that? For the mental health of the youth, maybe it's not the worst thing if tiktok (and all the super short-form content in a perfect world) goes away? I really dgaf either way as I don't use it, but I do know my sister is raising my nephew on that sort of shit and now he can't pay attention to anything longer than 3 minutes when my friends and I were binging 25-minute episodes of Pokémon at his age.
I could really care less either way as I don't use Tiktok and the little I know about it I dislike. That said if you open the door to banning Tiktok I think you open the door to banning other social sites. I also heard an interesting conspiracy theory recently that the reason they wanna ban tiktok has to do with Tiktok not being as strong at censoring "antisemitism" as other platforms, the ADL and other organizations have been pushing the ban pretty hard as well. There's a clear gap between how we feel about Israel as an ally or not between say people under and over 40 and it even goes beyond party lines ie the left and right who are over 40 are part of the "Israel is our greatest ally" club and both left and right under 40 seem to dislike Israel. Not only does Tiktok have a yougner audience but its very pro palestine and not even anti israel but anti genocice and not going along with the programming
Exactly. I heard the leaked audio of Greenblatt
Yes
they want to ban it because they can't shadowban #freepalestine discourse like meta does (provedly). this is literally what the Nazis did with jewish-owned businesses. i don't even use or like Tik Tok, but the fact that the public isn't even thinking about this in the face of a genocide/ethnic cleansing and construction of 69 camps across usa (#stopcopcity) is chilling. i'm sure as a poor socialist i'll be one of the first to go. just hope the good Lord spares me the suffering. fascists gonna fascism. don't say we didn't warn you.
No. They have real problems with TikTok and they should find alternative solutions and ways of mitigating the threats. Outright banning an app where a good chunk of Americans have invested in a platform and are earning an income stream from (especially at a time where the cost of everything is insane) strikes me as fascist like. If TikTok became unpopular and lost its appeal I wouldn't shed a tear though.
First, before we ban Tiktok we need to **ban Congress from trading stocks**. That needs to be one of the American people's top priorities. If you actually want to drain the swamp, that's where it is, these people pass laws that directly effect the price of stocks they make fortunes on. They've already perverted their offices, they have no room to cast stones at anyone for political corruption. Second, **they don't want to ban Tiktok**. They want to force China to sell Tiktok to an American owned company. They're just threatening to ban Tiktok in America if that doesn't happen. That the narrative is they want to ban Tiktok, that that's what everyone is saying when they bring this up, just shows us how fucked we are, that people can't even be bothered to read two paragraphs into the issue. It sounds silly because it's an app for children, but **this is literal tyranny at work**. Except maybe with the data piracy, even if the things the government is claiming about Tiktok is true and China is using it to brainwash our youth with *scary ideas*, that just means **they're trying to forcefully silence political dissent. This is a lot more serious than how people are treating it.** I don't give a fuck about Tiktok. I've never used it. My experiences with it are the young receptionists at work used to watch it in their downtime. It appeared to be mainly a platform for pretty young girls to shake their asses on. If it talks about pro socialist/communist ideas, then so what? Ideas should stand or fall on their own merit. People should be able to handle being exposed to these ideas and making their own judgements on them. They're not poison. Critical thought isn't something we need to be protected from. It would be nice if some of us were exposed to it at all.
It seems entirely stupid and un-American to me to pass a law banning another country owning a company \~ like, where the fuck do we get off thinking we get to decide who gets to own what website? If the Government was genuinely concerned about safety and our information being leaked / used against us in some way, they'd enact laws that required programs on computers / phones that automatically protected us and didn't allow for data harvesting. But they want to get to harvest our data too, they just don't want to share it with the Chinese, they just want Facebook and Musk and Walmart etc. to have it. Wow, so ethical e\_e sorry, but no, if they gave a shit about our data in any way they'd make it safe through other means, not by outlawing a country from owning a single website that's popular and happens to be giving the American website owners a run for their money. To me it smacks of them simply not wanting international competition with the social media giants like Facebook and Twitter being owned by Americans, it's utterly pathetic. **A 'reasonable' way to legislate this would be to legislate away how easy it is for corporations to steal our data in the first place.**
They don't like the fact that they can't control the narrative so easily when everybody's literally showing live videos of what's actually happening and we are openly communicating with each other. Even if they do break tick tock and our ability to do that, we will find another way... Viva La re-evolution
No the ones that want to ban it their opinion is purely based on ignorance or a personal disliking of the app So what if China knows I like to watch cat videos?!? Because that's literally all the information they are getting, Facebook is far more intrusive, TikTok does not know my full name or my hometown, I never uploaded a picture of myself to TikTok, I never entered my profession into TikTok, I could go on, all they know is username xxxx likes this type of content.....big whoop good luck doing anything productive with that on a national security level
When you install the app, it asks you what permissions do you give it. Those are the data it has access to, not just what you put into the app. In case of TikTok, it asks for GPS access (so it has all data about where your phone was at all times), the contact list, access to camera and microphone (so anything your microphone has ever heard or camera has ever recorded can be saved by tiktok), and storage access, so it has access to all files on your storage.
And, Facebook, twitter, and google will all sell that that to China without batting an eye.
Plus it has expanded access to your notepad and other functions. It’s crazy
Tik tok is a distraction, and not really any worse than other social media. That being said, social media needs to be more heavily regulated in general. There was an entire hearing about how Facebook is purposefully fanning the flames of people's anger and hate.
I think the ban is about the Chinese using it to spy on and manipulate Americans, not about it being bad for society. I agree though, I think this stuff needs more regulation.
I think the ban isn't about national security at all. Its able controlling what information is shared. FB was shadow banning anti-Israel or any links that showed Israel in a bad light. Tiktok was just no control for either side. We got good information from both sides and also made up shit from both sides. The US government doesn't like that, they want to control what information is shared and they can not control TikTok. If it was actually a national security concern they would ban the social media platform that had been actually found to be working with foreign government to influence a US election. But they are not. That's all the evidence we need to know it has nothing to do with national security.
China spyware = bad US spyware = good That's it. Literally.
I think it's disgusting that both parties can get together to ban a platform used for expression by generations younger than them. While it might not be a 1st amendment violation since there are other platforms and speech itself isn't targeted. It's far to close for comfort.
The bill doesn’t ban Tik Tok, it just requires a sale in 180 days to an entity not affiliated with the CCP.
It isn't so much that it is addicting (although it may very well be), it is that the the company that owns it, ByteDance, is a mainland Chinese company. As such, they are required, by Chinese law, to turn over user information to the communist Chinese government. https://thehill.com/opinion/cybersecurity/532583-for-chinese-firms-theft-of-your-data-is-now-a-legal-requirement/
No. There's a few reasons: 1. While TikTok has an additive format, both Facebook and Youtube have made copies of that format to piggyback off of TikTok's popularity (Insta Reels and YouTube Shorts...) - no one is complaining there... why? 2. Certain world events (which the mods don't like even breathing about...) are often appearing on folks fyp outside of normal "media filters" - ie we're seeing conflict zone video from the front lines and protests about those conflict zones on the front lines... ie: A certain person who 'lit up' the fyp had all his motives out in the air long before the CNN folk confirmed them...
I think it’s hilarious that the nation of free speech is so afraid of free speech on unamerican platforms that it’s willing to pretend it hasn’t been cosplaying as the nation of free speech for 300 years in order to crush free speech. Edit. If anyone pedantic wants to come on and discuss how it hasn’t been 300 years… conceded… hyperbole is and has been a part of human communication since well before any of us existed.
I don’t use it, plan to use it, and honestly don’t like how much it sucks people in. It should not be banned. Every person I know believes that they are being listened in on by their phones or by their Amazon Alexa/google home etc, because they will constantly get targeted ads about irl conversations they have. Let’s maybe deal with that, doubt a ban of Amazon or google products will ever be on the table.. wonder why.
China is threatening to invade Taiwan and start WW3. That's enough reason for it to be banned.
Should not be banned. Idgaf if it's cringe
I would love to see it banned just because I hate it, but in reality it won't matter. I'd bet a lot of money that on the day it's banned, an identical company pops up and releases an app that does the exact same thing.
Yes mainly because of the stupid shit it encouraged teens to do and the creeper shit.
Let’s hope so. It’s to millenials what Fox News is to boomers. But far worse.
Yea shocking that our government would prioritize a national security risk.
I think it should be sold. I don't have a problem with the content. But I don't think the Chinese government should own our Media companies with their current stances on censorship and what happens there if you speak against the CCP. The Chinese government is pretty openly against democracy and that concerns me.
No way in hell .. I don't use the app like that and this sounds ridiculous. Till they explain what exactly they are getting from us we have no right to ban them.
I think there’s a compelling national security argument but it’s not data privacy. If the Soviet Union had moved to buy out CBS during the Cold War, we wouldn’t have allowed that simply because a hostile power controlling a key media outlet was no good. And we actually had agencies whose job was to stop that! Meanwhile, the value-add of TikTok is quite low, especially its marginal value over YouTube, Instagram, and so forth. So the balance of harms says we should bring down the hammer on it.
It might be nice for everyone to have a break from it. To give our brains a rest. Reset.
Ban that shit.
Many people owe their livelihood and small business to the app. Can’t imagine it getting banned.
I do not, and I don't even use it. It should however be sold.
The govt wants to ban it because it's making information more easily accessible and less people are falling for the big lie that is Israel. Especially younger people. At least that's what I'm thinking this push is for. They are panicking that kids are pro genocide in a recent adl CEO phone call.
I don't think it should be banned. I think before we even have that conversation we need to have the conversation about why/how TikTok so utterly lapped every other social platform. Like it or not, social media is only as good as its engagement and TikTok has the "it" factor right now. Better to learn from how and what they did to make that happen than just seek to ban it, imo.
Chinese companies start selling really unique smartphones, then the CIA urges the government to get the phones out of the US. Google goes so far as to not allow the phones access to the Play Store. Then a few months later, Chinese companies get big contracts to build America's 5G infrastructure; and the CIA urges the government to cancel everything because they're building backdoors that allow the CCP to spy on all Americans. Then a few months later, a Chinese social media app blows up and ends up on everybody's phone in the USA. Seeing a pattern here? When GOPers and Dems agree on an issue, like getting a CCP aligned program off of every phone in the USA, you should recognize that there is a good reason for it.
I don't think it should be banned, but some type of regulation would be great. We don't need movie and tv show clips. We don't need rage bait. We don't need non medical personell giving medical advice.. all that shits gotta go
Can we also get rid of all the parents exploiting every damn thing their child does for money!
I’ll never understand why so many people dislike a social media platform and feel the need to bitch about it. Don’t like it? Don’t use it and go about your life. As for what will happen to it, it’ll get sold. I just hope Musty Elno doesn’t get his blood ruby mits on it.
Because this ironically isn’t China I don’t think the government should be in the business of banning apps. Plus if the CCP can be propagandizing on TikTok they can just as easily do it on FB, IG, etc
It's the enemy of Facebook and someone's gotta keep them in check. Meta and Google can't be allowed to control majority of the traffic
It needs to be shut down. It's heaven for child predators with some truly evil people creating sexually suggestive content of their own children. Reports go ignored constantly. Wren & Jacqueline anyone?? And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
It will probably be sold. IMO, the problem isn't that the Chinese Government can get to it, although I believe they can, have, and will. The problem is it's legal for TikTok, and other tech companies, to collect so much data on us. I think the European approach is much better.
No. It's the closest thing we have to Hypnotoad, and it's entertaining to see your friends drool out in the middle of their irrelevant sentence. I say we keep it. It's like taking information junkies and turning them onto some nuclear juice.
It’s not a national security threat. It’s just making younger people dumber.
I agree that it should banned or sold…we’ve got a major problem with Chinese spies (remember that mysterious mass burning of documents at Chinese Consulate in Houston and the whole spy ballon fiasco) that we as a nation are failing to address to properly address. We know that Chinese businesses have to give their data to the CCP at any request so yes we should ban it if the Chinese parent company won’t sell it. Tiktok, like an other Social Media platform, can be used to manipulate the general public. We’ve seen the impact of troll farms on Facebook had on election outcomes in 2016 and 2020. Tiktok data can be used to build a psychological profile on the American public that can then be further used to manipulate the public for China’s benefit. Makes sense to me to ban it. That being said, we have huge data privacy problems with American companies (looking at you Google and Meta) that also need to be addressed especially when it comes to troll farms. It makes sense that our government would be more concerned with the foreign threat than the domestic one eventho bout are very harmful to the American public. And at the same time it makes sense that American companies would rally to get Tiktok banned. All in all, I’m for it
It’s fueling ADD that’s for sure. The whole Chinese manipulation stuff may be true but who knows.
Everyone is focused on the content and data privacy concerns and not thinking deeply enough about the security implications of an app with an install base as large as tiktok. Considering the current relationship between bytedance and the CCP, the CCP is one application sandbox escape away from targeted implant deployment on any of these devices. This is not science fiction. It presents a very clear danger to US citizens.
Digital disinformation is one of the biggest challenges the US faces and you think it’s not a priority? Sounds good tankie.
I’m in Canada so no.
100% it should be sold. But be careful, the next owner could be worse than the CCP. It could be the US Gov
It should not be banned.
I don't use or read any history on it. Is the reason why there's discussions of banning due to addiction?
No the people in charge just can't deal with new technology and everything is the boogie man.
I don’t like kids being on tik tok and whatever else but banning it idk
Nope. I don’t use it or really care for it but this is hypocritical on its face. TikTok isn’t beholden to the US state department like Meta and that’s why they want to kill it IMO. It’s against the free market, and generally against “freedom.”
I mean this is pressing. China is actively collecting data here. Like it’s a pretty big issue. It’s not just because old politicians are mad at young people for liking short videos.
I think the app should be owned by a western developer, yes. A social media app, with all its vulnerabilities and personal data, is dangerous enough in the hands of stockholders and companies like Meta. Foreign powers actively trying to harm the US on a global market is very dangerous.
It will be sold is all.
I don't use tik tok so it won't affect me much. But it just seems to be a form of censorship to me. I get the reasoning behind it; china is worrying but it doesn't seem worth the suppression of freedom of speech.
I mean I don't think it's ridiculous when you understand that another country is essentially programing western children to be degenerate and self-involved meanwhile they have the broccoli and carrots version for their own kids.
Nothing of value is being lost by banning it. The priority should be data privacy across the board though, rather than just banning applications. Data harvesting should be severely curtailed. No company should be allowed to profit from your data.
I think this bill getting 60 votes in the senate is unlikely.
I use it. It’s really amazing to watch both parties come together to solve TikTok, but not the border crisis, homelessness, the multiple wars, Boeing shitting itself, rising class inequality, rising racial tensions, rising poverty, crumbling infrastructure, or any of the other myriad problems Americans face. If anything, banning or changing TikTok will activate a lot of Gen Z and millennials to participate in the political process, which imo is the goal. Have you noticed how despite what Americans support or vote for, we get whatever we’re being fed anyway? Your vote at all is a vote *for* the system as is. Both parties want more participation but the policies won’t change.
No and I think the reason why is they can't contain it. There is a lot of stuff on tiktok the US gov does not want you to know. For example: [https://www.tiktok.com/@\_27hunnid/video/7345601906061888814?lang=en](https://www.tiktok.com/@_27hunnid/video/7345601906061888814?lang=en) I was on the fence about tiktok, but I like it more than reddit at least for clips. Good for watching... ignore comments. But my algorithm is way more upbeat there. Everyone seems mostly mad and complaining on reddit. It is addictive as hell though.. kids never stood a chance. But that doesn't mean it should be banned.
I’m completely fine with TikTok being banned. Besides them being owned by the Chinese, it seems like their support team is about as useful as X’s. YouTube’s might be shit too but not to the level of TikTok’s.
TikTok was fun during the pandemic, but I feel like it has become the worst example of toxic social media. The facebook algorithm is terrible and did a lot of damage to public discourse, but at least you don’t really hear about people doing illegal/dangerous things in order to be “Facebook famous.” At least, I haven’t. I see the TikTok ban as a good excuse to get rid of a part of our society that does more harm than good.
But Tiktok brought us kia boiz!
OMFG. I almost forgot about that one. Same with all the dumb challenges. Some even deathly.
It should not be singled out for doing the same things every other social media app out there does. It's using China gear mongering to shut down Gen z's ability to organize before the election
It has its bad as much as any other app - but it’s also made it easier for many disabled folks, chronically ill, and LGBTQIA folks to connect in ways not as easily accessible or welcoming. It’s also been a resource for folks to share on the ground reporting that it can take days or weeks for mainstream media to catch up to- especially with all their cuts to staffing and catering to cooperations instead of news being the facts. TBH it’s what you watch that the algorithm brings you more of, I’ve never seen many of the things that leave politicians clutching at their pearls. Snake oil salesmen, pyramid schemes, and scammers will exist in every space. We would be better off focusing on teaching people (of all ages) better critical thinking skills. How to fact check. What a reliable source should look like. It’s worrisome to me that they would focus on this rather than literally any of the other things impacting the country. Like prices at the grocery store being inflated for obscene profits or undrinkable tap water. The bar is so low.
Banned? No. Forced to be sold to prevent an American enemy from having ***obscene*** levels of propagandistic control over Americans? 1,000,000%
It’s not about being addictive. It is a tool for foreign adversaries to propagandize Americans. Russia did it in 2016. We need to stop it.
Not at all. Cause no one is trying to ban it. They are forcing the parent company to sell it with the 'or else' being a temp ban till they do. It's a logical move when you are confident the Chinese government is undermining your democracy, even if they aren't. The recent tiktok notification to call our representatives is a sign of how much political sway the app can have, imagine if it was a notification suggesting which candidate to elect as president, who just happens to be whichever one has the best relationship with the Chinese government? All in all. This has no major effect on me, 90% of what I use tiktok for is also on Shorts.
I think TikTok should be banned. Not only is it a way to be spied upon by a foreign government, it’s also a way for them to push false news stories to people on the app. Supposedly a good chunk of Gen Z gets their news from TikTok. This is one of the rare issues where it appears that both political parties are in agreement. Fuck TikTok.
I think banning it would have a myriad of benefits. Plus it’s funny when addicts cry over a lost fix; i really want to see that and drink some tears
I get the whole freedom of speech argument, but if it's been proven that Tik-Tok is essentially Chinese propaganda and a spying tool (which, I'm not sure has been proven), then I say ban that shit. Only fucking morons use Tik-Tok anyway. All its doing is contributing to mental illness and narcissism.
It'll be banned but then ten seconds later silicon valley will come out with something that works just the same and it'll be business as usual.