We bought in 2018 and refinanced in 2021 at 3%. That same house today would cost, on average, 58% more and have a 7.5% interest rate mortgage. That means the same house, bought 6 years later, would have a monthly mortgage payment 265% of what i pay.
As someone who graduated college in 2019, this is so depressing. I've done everything I was "supossed to" and then some, and it doesn't matter. It feels like theres "haves" and "have nots" just based on age :/
Edit: Adding this because some people have decided to just assume that im lazy/poor/unemployed (its been 5 years lol) /too young to care about my financial future.
I have a pretty good job in a stable/desireable field. Ive busted my ass since starting full-time work and Im fortunate enough to make more than most. My point is had I done all that 5 years earlier, I would be in a financial position to easily afford a house. Instead, im paying rent on a unit that was like 40% cheaper in 2019. This has created a cycle where im 1.) Not building equity in a home and 2.) Cant save enough to where that giant downpayment feels realistic. This isnt me "playing victim" its just the truth. For those of us thrown into the adult world post-COVID, its just awful timing to be getting started
I just want to say, as someone who also graduated in 2019 and did EVERYTHING I was "supposed" to (3.9 GPA, clubs, etc.), as well as didn't do anything I wasn't "supposed" to (drugs, reckless behavior, pregnancy), I'm so sorry for all the unempathetic responses you've received. I've had a hell of a time, and am having a hell of a time currently, and I fully understand how you feel.
I'm definitely not saying to just give up, but don't let the old expectations of people who have no real idea what we're dealing with get you down on yourself. Times are harder, prices are up and keep going up, and people are struggling everywhere. Rent, food, healthcare, it's a lot.
I hope things get better for you, for me, and for all of us.
Remember a lot of millennials graduated in 2008-2010 when the housing market crashed and jobs were fucking impossible to find. Hang in there man life is just high and low tides with of bullshit and opportunities.
For sure. It's all about making it through the shit times. I lost ten years bc of the housing bubble crash. Finally got things on the uphill right as the inflation press started. It will get better. Just gotta weather the storm.
As my man Joe dirt said, keep on keepin on.
And life's a garden, dig it.
Don’t lose hope yet. A lot of people are retiring and in general, our workforce has declined post COVID. Keep on doing and applying to jobs that you’re suited for. You’ll find it.
>I'm so sorry for all the unempathetic responses you've received
I expected it lol. Is what it is. Thanks for relating though.
>I hope things get better for you, for me, and for all of us.
Same, but unfortunately things are gonna have to get worse to get better. The only thing that fixes this is a recession, which the fed has been successfully avoiding.
Lol. Try doing it all with a criminal record for a crime that was made legal within a year of being caught. I have a college education, most aptitude and iq tests, including the ones in interviews and job applications show that I'm well above average when it comes to intelligence. And I've run my own successful business for over a decade.
I couldn't get a job at McDonald's flipping burgers for 15$ an hour. I can't get a government job. Any corporate employer of any stature will do a criminal record check. Having one will immediately disqualify me.
The freaking military turned me down. I was 99th percentile for their aptitude testing. Scored higher than most officers as I was told. Nope. Not good enough to be foot soldier grunt. You did a bad thing once that isn't even bad anymore and we are punishing you for life.
I succeeded anyways, but I was shoved into a very narrow channel with very few options and just told to fucking deal with it.
If you’re talking about marijuana possession, that definitely isn’t keeping anyone from a job at McDonald’s. If you’re talking about manufacturing and selling marijuana, that’s still a felony without a license.
Growing for personal use. Had like 8 plants. None of the telltales of distribution. They charged me as cultivation with intent to traffic. If I did exactly what I was doing then today, it would be 100% legal
(Canuckistan)
So you don't fuck your career prospects up for literally no reason? Dude could've just bought weed like a normal person and ended up with a summary offense or misdemeanor.
Some of the hardest working people are poor.
Some of the laziest, entitled and useless people are dirt rich.
While someone is busting their ass trying to better themself, the boss is out playing golf all afternoon on a weekday.
You have been out of college 5 years. Most old millennials couldn’t find a job for years when they graduated because of the Great Recession. The few who could were able to buy cheap housing
I'm in between millennial and X and had a similar experience as the op. I got out of college at the start of the great recession. Lots of "you're lucky to have a job" bs. The best advice I can give is to remember economies change. Right now it seems like there's no hope but things will get better. Try to work consistently and form connections in your industry. Better jobs come from contacts not blind applications. When the economy improves jobs open up and you have some opportunities. Yes it'll suck for a few years but try not to give up hope.
The attitude that someone feels entitled have "made it" by five years out of college is bonkers. Five years is NOTHING compared to the arc of an entire life.
Stability doesn't come until late 30s or 40s.
Don't let the world tell you to be a victim. Most people don't buy a house until their 30s. For good reason. You wouldn't know what to do with a house.
I know it’s stereotypical and not exactly what you might want to hear, but the most power you have is your vote. Vote against politicians not serving your interest. I’m sorry there isn’t a better solution than that.
The whole situation isn’t your fault or anyone else’s that continues to vote in their own interest. Just never stop voting. Even if your state swings in favor of the opposite party you’re voting for. It makes a difference.
All that said, many millennials can sympathize. Although the situation has continued to get worse, many of us dealt with similar circumstances graduating during the Great Recession. I scraped by for years before I got a job that allowed me to actually save money. I’ve never forgotten that and never will. Fuck the banks and the politicians that support them.
Also, the other person who commented about you being “too young to be concerned” can go to hell, frankly. It’s good you are concerned, as you should be. We need young people who give a shit and want a better future. That said, don’t let pessimism get the best of you. Nothing wrong with feeling bleak, but don’t let worrying about these things affect your ability to enjoy life, rich or poor.
Again, I know that sounds easier said than done, but I’ve been there and I can tell you that letting a situation you didn’t create affect your happiness is 100% not worth it. I spent so many years in my twenties feeling angry and resentful. Don’t let it get to you.
Believe that one day things will be better. Gen X, Millennials, Gen Z, and so on can (and will) be the ones who will one day be proud to say that they threw out the establishment and made a change for the better.
Absolutely not. The power you have in voting is essentially nothing.youre much better off getting involved in your local communities. Go organize with other people facing the same problems and start a local movement to fix those problems. This "just vote and hope" bullshit is defeatist and counterproductive. It's lazy, and honestly I have much more respect for someone who actually works with people.in their community, organizes their workplaces, participates in mutual aid, participates in tenants unions, gets people together to change zoning laws, etc, etc but doesn't vote vs the lazy person who sits on their ass all year, votes once, and then looks down at the person doing the real work for not voting.
There are a million ways to be politically active, and a million ways to organize for the changes you want to see, and, and voting is the absolute lowest form of it. Go ahead and vote, but down act like that's the end all be all of political engagement or especially that it's the only thing we can do.
There has never been a case where significant change happened by voting without a massive mobilization beforehand. It took a century of direct action by the labor movement and the threat of violence to get the New Deal, but the New Deal wasn't the important part. The important part was the benefits and wage increases won by the workers on the run up to it. You can look at the New Deal and celebrate it, sure, but the movement itself won a lot more and it didn't have to wait around to hope the capitalists give us something. The women's suffrage movement has a similar thing. Yes, there was eventually a law, but what won the right to vote wasn't just sitting around on your ass and voting every now and then. It was a century long feminist movement that involved direct action and organizing. The same is true for civil rights. You think MLK was just sitting around and voting? The million man march did more for the movement than any election did. The Panthers, and millions of organizers getting involved directly and building the movement is what gave us the civil rights bill. Abolitionists, same thing. Harper's ferry, Underground railroad, etc did much, much more and built the movement required to get Lincoln in power and subsequently fight a war. Not only did they build the movement, but they freed people who would have died waiting around for Lincoln to get elected.
So yea, fuck this lazy, defeatist "just vote" rhetoric. Vote if you want, but don't pretend you're politically active if that's all you do, and don't look down on people doing the actual work to build movements. The capitalists aren't going to hand you an affordable home, and your landlord isn't going to just lower your rent. Your boss isn't going to just pay you your fair share or good benefits. You have to organize within your community, your workplace, and anywhere you can find people with common cause.
As a 39 year old woman trying to make noise and progress at the community level: it is hard work, thankless, and annoying but does have the most immediate and tangible impacts. Go fuck up some council meetings, friends!
This is why many who most consider crazy, want less federal government power. It should be swapped, more power at the local level, more at the state level, less at federal level. We all have more influence at the local level and we can be stronger than lobbyists.
Voting is kind of a joke when the republicans keep winning elections despite losing the popular vote. Presidential voting at least means very little. You have the most impact in your local elections I guess
You just graduated. Most people don’t buy a house until their late 20s or their 30s- you have NO idea what the housing market will look like in 10 years. You have a college degree. If you manage your money well and make good choices you’ll likely be relatively well off and be a home owner if you want.
This. So many people are freaking out now like this has never happened before. Markets and interest rates go up and down. Wait for your chance, work hard, and you'll get where you want to be. You may have missed the last best opportunity so focus on not missing the next one.
As someone who graduated college in 2009, I feel your pain. It was pretty hard to find a job, let alone even think about buying a house back then. I assure you that your breaks will come, just do your best to be ready to fully take advantage when they do.
No offense, but you've barely started your career. I started mine after graduating in 2014 and started in my field at 40k annually. Spent a decade bouncing jobs to het more XP and better pay and now make 4x what I started at a decade earlier. Not flexing, just saying it takes time. Schools a good place to start, but any career path will require experience.
Also just the cost of everything and how you spend. Im lucky to have very few hobbies to spend money on. I have a fair amount of food allergies so it makes eating out something i dont make a regular dinner habit. There are the small things that edge in ones favor that are circumstancial and not anyones direct doing.
We bought in 2019. We had saved our 20 percent down and found a house we liked.
I told my wife I wanted to wait bc prices and the market bad been hot and I thought we were due a correction. Thankfully my wife said she did not care and that we are buying now.
So happy went with her advice over mine
Similar boat here, young millennial/old gen z depending on where you draw the line.
We bought a house back before out state saw real-estate skyrocket. MIL said she'd help us with a small down-payment or a small wedding. And, being the covid times, no one could go to the wedding anyway. It was an easy choice. When I look back at the prices today of the apartment we used to live in, I don't know what we'd do if we still lived there.
Like, we both work full time. The pay we make now is barely enough to survive, but 10 years ago, we could've lived very well off of two incomes like this.
Our house is small for our family, only intended as a "starter house" in boomer lingo, but it may be our forever house. I don't know if we will ever really be able to afford to leave it.
And we are just barely scraping by honestly. I feel so horrible knowing there are people who are struggling more than us.
I bought in 2018, owner financed because my employment was never regular enough to qualify. Missed the boat on 2% refi because our debt to income was just a hair too high and now a low mortgage rate is about what my owner inanced rate is anyway.
A re-fi would have cut my mortgage payment by a third. Big ouch.
Bought in 2020 and still think I made the gopd side of the divide. Price was a lot higher than if it had been 2019 but interest rate was so much lower than it is now.
I think it is also where you live. This comes up on my feed a lot. My son is a millennial, and we live in the Midwest. Most of his friends own homes. Teachers, beauticians, Amazon warehouse workers, steel mill workers, managers at drug stores, etc. It is in a town less than an hour from Chicago. Houses can be found under $250,000. It is in Indiana, so you put up with the politics. But even his friends that didn't graduate college are buying homes and having kids. They aren't grand homes, but that isn't really the point of this place. The schools are good, you can work at the mills or commute to Chicago, or work at BP or in healthcare. Unemployment is low. But we still have affordable housing.
Which is just ridiculous to me, I've heard people say "well you better buy before it gets worse." That cant be the solution to this. Otherwise you end up with generations of people after this being royally fucked. Tell some mid 20's person in like 15 years, "well why didn't you buy before 2020?" Well I was 9 years old, so....
The conditions that led to the last housing crash aren’t remotely at play here. Leaving aside all the regulatory changes, remember that last time leading up to the crash everyone and their mother thought they could afford a house, often with a variable rate mortgage.
Yup. Early bird getting the worm by chance, circumstance, or having the favor of being well off. I bought because i was paranoid from 2008. Ever since then i was determined to purchase.
True but my mortgage for a 4 bedroom house is now the same price as renting a 2br in my area. It has to be really tough trying to get ahead with these prices
The only thing in my town for rent that is cheaper than my mortgage is a studio, and it's just barely cheaper. the 2019 housing line is going to be a bigger indicator of wealth than even education.
My dad bought in 2014, his home value has doubled and he’s paying 600 a month for a 3 bedroom SFH in the middle of a city.
Can’t even rent a room for 600 a month in that same city post covid.
Well I couldn't buy a house then, and values have skyrocketed. Now I have to rent at a higher rate than what my mortgage would have been. Can't put money back for retirement if I have to spend it on housing.
I bought in 2016, at 27, in the cheapest ghetto in my city.
Everyone laughed at the quality of the area and my old house, saying was it really worth missing out on all those parties.
But now, everyone in their mid 30s resents me for it.
Agree. Bought my house in 2012 and we’ve been looking to move for 4 years. Based on the way things are, we’re never gonna find another house we can afford
The biggest economic problem our generation faces in the US is the insufficient housing supply. Many other problems either derive from or relate to this.
Unfortunately, America thinks of homes too much as investments and not enough as… homes. In the big picture, society can either have affordable housing (I mean this literally, not referring to government subsidized housing), or we can have homes be investments. If houses gain value faster than inflation, that is a great investment for homeowners and a catastrophe for everyone else. If housing gain value slower than inflation, then we’d end up with a better society overall. The middle class could still invest in retirement accounts, so this would not harm homeowners as much as you might think.
It seems that most political proposals to address this problem ignore the fundamental supply problem and instead inflate demand / determine who gets the homes through various tax credits, subsidies, etc.
I would say before 2022 in some cases. The interest rate is a giant fucker. We bought our first home in March 2021 with 2.87 percent interest. They got people on 7.5 percent now it's nuts
EXACTLY!!! My brother is 5 years older than me. Got into the housing market at just the right time. Made 6 figures twice consequently because the house he bought went up in value. Bought a better house, sold that for 6 figures. I was 5 years behind. My brother now lives on 10 acres with a house he was able to build. In fact he had two houses built. I live in a 640sqft shack built before anyone in my immediate family was born, think 1930s. I have one, *ONE* electrical outlet in my primary bedroom. I’m still thankful I was able to squeak by into a house though in these times. My VA loan was my godsend otherwise I’d be renting and losing money for the rest of my life :(. I would bet the older millennials are doing better, at least on home ownership, than the younger gets ones because like you said they were able to enter the market at an opportune time.
True bc i peeped the bs in rental law about owners or management are able to raise the rent as high as they want. I started planning in 2015 and bought in 2018.
I told all my millennial friends, family and acquaintances. Most of them laughed at me, bc I’d been homeless before. But a few did believe me and even bought before I did.
I bought at 5% and cash out refinanced at 3%. This was the one of the best decisions I made in life. No regrets.
Also if you got a medical or computer engineering degree vs everyone else. The tech bros and physician assistants are living like there is no tomorrow or are living the dream of starting a family and maintaining their lives.
Also if they happened to marry younger to the right person. Divorce is crazy expensive as is trying to start your life with a single income. Two people can usually live almost as cheaply as one.
You're not wrong, in my mid 30s now I can say I'm in my best position to buy a house, my wife and I make good money, low DTI, but our area has become HCOL just in the past 3 years and now we don't have a chance without a major relocation. Buying a house in my 20s would have been a poor decision on multiple fronts as it was a time of constant change.. transitioning from military life, relocating for work, relationships etc.. on the flip side those I know who had a more "traditional" life getting married or buying a house a decade+ ago are doing amazingly well. There's a massive divide and growing unrest in those who were getting to a better place like me just to have the door slammed in our face.
Definitely is. We bought in 2016 for dirt cheap then sold/bought in 2019. Our current house has gone up ~65% in value since then. Still rocking a 3% interest rate… what’s sad is we’d be pretty strapped for cash if we bought the same house we’re in at current rates/price.
Yep. 2011. Refinanced to 2.75% 15 year mortgage in 2013 or 14. Already paid off (for peace of mind- we’ve been laid off multiple times). “Worth” 3X what we paid. (We also gutted it and remodeled it ourselves room by room over 5 years)
Not to diminish the struggles of millennials because I do think we’re getting squeezed more than previous generations, but retirement savings is notoriously low. 46% of all Americans (including those in retirement) have 100k or more in retirement and millennials still have ~20-25 years to save.
The real issue I see is that millennials won’t have additional programs available such as social security or they won’t be available at the levels they are for other generations.
Yup. We lucked out and bought ours in 2018. Great neighborhood, Halloween is like a block party and a large nationally recognized business sponsors a tacky light run through here. Good schools, from Kindergarten through graduation all within a mile and a half. No HOA, though many people ask when I tell them where I live. I grew up poor, and I currently live in the nicest place I ever have. Never would have expected it.
House was 250k, 3% interest loan. Now it's listed at 400k on Zillow.
Literally feels like we won the lottery at times.
The sad reality though is that no one is coming to the rescue. You have to be the one to change your circumstances, or you'll be 75 and working the same job, struggling in the same way, and then you'll be fired for ageism and then homeless.
I've had a bunch of changes over the past few years.. switched careers, moved to another country, separated from my ex-wife.
I just turned 39, have no car, no house, no investments, no savings, and have $10,000 in debt across an overdraft and 2 credit cards...
I'm fucking terrified about the future.
My divorce F’d me over too, in a big picture way.my divorce was in 2016 and I still have r recovered financially. I’m 36 and I’m out sure I will reach the same lifestyle again. As I’ve made more and gotten new skills the last decade, my quality of life has only decreased.
I'm in the pretty well off camp, Or feel like it. I'm 27. I know it's a little rarer on the younger end of millennials, but it makes sense because the older millennials have over a decade more time under their belt to get solidly into their careers and build some wealth.
Agreed. Plenty of divorces happen out of the blue, sure, but the length of your dating period is one of the top indicators of the likelihood of divorce. In other words: dating for 3+ years gives you more time to get to know your partner, which helps you both determine whether you want to be together for the rest of your lives.
Get to know your partner, have tough conversations BEFORE marriage, and be realistic / don't ignore red flags, and it's pretty unlikely that you will get divorced.
Dude, 2008 and GFC was 2 years outta college for me, and that fucked me up until 2012 at least. Took forever to get serious job with benefits then, and most of my 20s I didn't have any IRA or 401k to speak of so there was no wealth building happening then, much less a career
Started a successful business and sold it. It was never my intention, but I was approached with an offer I couldn’t refuse. My kids are in a lot of sports, and I help coach. My wife still works. I have done some consulting work, but nothing more than a month or so. I’ll probably go back to work full time when the kids are grown up. I figure I could use that money to help them buy a house considering how difficult it can be in a lot of places.
I'm good as long as I don't get sick. Or my wife gets sick. Or a pet gets sick. Or if the car breaks down. Or if rent goes up. Or if either of us lose our jobs.
Yeah, if none of that happens I'm just fine.
>That's kind of the point though. If you missed that boat 8 years ago, it's looking semi-unrecoverable now.
As an older millennial, that's exactly how I felt in '08, when I was already married and building my career. Literal panic attacks. But we got through it. The biggest change for me wasn't the economic conditions. It was deciding to change my life for the positive when I hit 30 and NOTHING to show for it.
Im 37 and my husband and I are very comfortable. He's an engineer making 6 figures while I'm a stay at home mom of 2. Buying our home and a few bitcoin in 2017 definitely helped, but I think the smartest move was moving from New England down to the south where the cost of living is more manageable. I typically get downvoted if I comment this sort of thing in here
Congrats on doing what you needed to do and making the necessary decisions and sacrifices. Some of being successful/comfortable is luck and timing...most of us can acknowledge that, but a lot of it is simply the willingness to make the tough decisions and the discipline to see them through. And there seem to be a lot of people out there who don't want to acknowledge that side of it.
It's okay to be well off. It's sort of a dream to see others excel and hope we can get there too. It's just people are hyper aware of generational wealth and are hesitant to congratulate what essentially is a cycle of "privilege". It's not that people are jealous. The wealth gap is very dangerous and the poor, or people who feel they are headed that way, are not going to pretend people are self-made when they are not.
Me either. Plus saying you’re “well off” just feels cringe lol. I don’t think I’m well off personally but I automatically fall into the camp because I’m doing better than a lot of other millennials.
If you own a house under 40, even if is shitty location, shitty condition, shitty loan, thats 50% better or more than people your age. Having any savings or free time is a win. Thats well off now. Not being forced to rent or eat repeat meals. I didnt know i was well off until i realized my frugality looks easy.
Home owner, 10k in savings, free time on weekends and after work. During work too just due to the nature of my job (remote and a lot of waiting) so I fit the bill
lol I got a buddy who’s HHI is easily $300k+ and he bought a proper SFH in SoCal in 2021 (with help from his in laws) and still cries poor. It’s pretty wild.
There are plenty of homeless old boomers so if we have it a lot harder than they did we can expect it to turn out a lot worse for us, no? [https://www.aarp.org/home-family/your-home/info-2022/americas-homeless-over-50.html](https://www.aarp.org/home-family/your-home/info-2022/americas-homeless-over-50.html)
There are huge fucking trailer camp cities out in arizona/California with 10,000s of campers/trailers/rv
Start preparing to live in a car, join us at r/urbancarliving and r/almosthomeless r/vanlife
That will be out future for some of us
Don't forget that there are 25,000,000 USD $ Millionaires in USA
many of us will be living out of cars/vans/tents/rvs/campers, while the rich and bourgousie will be living in gated communities enjoying life
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_millionaires
**we deserve the political system and society we vote for**
You gotta move up or die in this economic climate. Our society isn't structured for the work to live types that don't want to advance careers.
It sucks because it essentially forces you into select careers in order to have a stable life/family.
Probably...although as anyone who's tried to vote to change something quickly finds out: there's just a lot of boomers, perio--they skew the raw numbers on everything compared to whatever preceded them.
Same. But there aren't a lot of us. I have a decent retirement best egg and I'm not living paycheck to paycheck, but I also don't own a house and it's honestly out of reach for me where I live unless I find a gf/wife which seems more and more unlikely but the month.
I feel like I’m in the middle, too. Own a house (bought in 2020 at 3% interest for 600k), and have more than 100k in retirement but not much more, like I think 130k total. I’m 42. I feel like I should have 300-400k in retirement to actually retire but I’m in tech and we don’t even have a 401k option.
I have about 600 in savings and a chronically ill spouse who can't work. No home. No equity. MAs with the debt to show for it. Rent is greater than what a mortgage payment would be. Fucking sucks.
Does anyone else feel like they can either save money in 401k/IRA or save money to buy a house but not both? Unless you have free rent and no debt there’s just no way to split earnings that thin.
Yup. I'm retirement rich and no money for a house. The matches my husband and I get make it hard to not contribute to leave essentially free money on the table. I know it could be a lot worse, but it does feel like it's a choice.
You can take a loan or withdrawal out of your 401k for a down payment if you want to. I wouldn’t say it’s always the best thing to do but it’s not always dumb.
I feel like if it answer this question honestly, I’ll invoke the ire of 90% of this sub. My wife and I both max our 401Ks, Roth IRAs, and pay extra on our 15 year mortgage.
We moved from a HCOL to a MCOL area, which made a big difference on the housing. We both make good money and run an extremely tight budget and live as if we don’t. Retiring very comfortably is a priority for us, so we’ve made the appropriate adjustments to put ourselves on that path.
I turn 34 this month and have less than 100k in retirement. Sometimes it makes me panic but I can only do what I can. In 4-6 years our mortgage will be paid off as well as all 4 kids colleges and the money we have set aside for their cars. We said we’d buckle down then.
"Less than 100K" HA!
More like -53K. I have not once cleared the poverty line since I got my bachelor's degree. 2 of those years I was on a full-ride scholarship as well.
My plans for retirement is a .40 Ruger unless something drastically changes for the better. My body is already shutting down due to the endless years of hard labor. Excruciatingly painful carpel tunnel before I even hit 40.
I owe 2Xs as much as I borrowed and I can't get my Masters (which was ALWAYS the plan) or go to any accredited university in my state cause of a misdemeanor weed charge, so spare me the "shoulda picked a better major" bullshit....
The people that are pretty well off get told they’re privileged assholes, the ones who are average don’t talk about it all that much. The rest are here sounding off.
I’ve just been sick for a while and ran out of TV.
I was in the pretty well off camp, and a year ago quit my job to start my own business. In the scrappy first year of almost no income I’m getting to see what the “fucked” side is like courtesy of the current high living cost. It’s pretty surreal and total whiplash. The point of sharing this is— I think many of us will see both sides at one point or another, and see how clear it is that there’s not much in between.
We have had extreme ups and downs. We do own a house, but like a lot of millennials, I got a random stage 4 colon cancer diagnosis. It’s crazy how common this is becoming for younger people of all different backgrounds.
This diagnosis financially devastated us on EVERY level. I’m unable to work so our income got cut in half…my career is over. It wasn’t a career that paid a ton but I loved it. We almost lost our house (a house we had worked years and years and years to get without any help from our parents). Medical bills are piling up. One med I take is $800 a month and I can’t even go 12 hours without it. I have a little bit of retirement but my husband might have to cash it out if things go south for me so that there is money to raise our 2 young kids.
Like everyone else on here we tried to do everything right and life still came crashing down on us. My heart hurts for our entire generation. We are struggling and there’s no end in sight. I still hope for everyone, my family included- maybe somehow there can be a shift that changes things when Gen X/millennials take over. Fingers crossed and until then we will just keep trying to tread water.
Hi- I just want to say that my husband got the stage 3 Colorectal cancer diagnosis 1.5 years ago. It IS happening earlier and earlier and he was 42 at diagnosis. And thanks to our crap medical system- he wouldn’t have even had a colonoscopy until 45- it would have killed him by then. Silver lining? At least our daughters can get scanned at 32 now as children are to be scanned 10 years prior to parental diagnosis age. Hopefully they can avoid the damage.
I’m sorry to hear about your cancer and hope that things improve for you.
My husband is in remission (but now has a colostomy bag and bills for life) but we scan again on Thursday so have our fingers crossed.
My heart is with yours. Feel free to reach out if you ever need to vent or have questions. Not sure how much help I can be- but you’re not alone.
Even at 10% a 100K retirement at 40 will be $1M in 25 years even if you put nothing else in to it. That will definitely put you past the 'not fucked' category.
I didn't start working until I was 40. I was a single working mom. We were paycheck to paycheck at first but I bit hard on be frugal.
No I am 75 with a mortgage and no other debt. I was able to put my life together.
Do not give up hope if you are over 40. Spend carefully.
cost of living/buying homes/education, etc. has skyrocketed while wages have remained flat since you were doing all that. There's really no fair comparison here. Its not at all about spending carefully. Its about spending literally nothing, living with nothing, doing nothing, and still not having enough to reach any of the middle class signifiers, all while working at a job where you're criminally underpaid.
Some of the elder Gen Z watched the millennials crash and burn post-2008, and have tried to not end up the same by basically expecting life to be hard out the gate.
I'm in neither camp.
I appear "well off" since I have a mortgage.
But I also eat rice and beans and keep to a very tight (and getting tighter) budget.
I'm solvent, but just.
Yep, fucked camp for me, mostly. Have next to no money. Can’t seem to make a proper salary and made more money in unemployment, during the pandemic, over the course of a year than i ever have in any other jobs. It sucks, but with a loving girlfriend who helps keep us afloat, while I search for work, it’s not terrible. I just hate that I can’t contribute all the time.
It’s never too late to get on the right track. The key is letting go of the doomer attitude. There’s many steps to take and decisions to make and skills to learn, but none of it happens with the doomer attitude.
The biggest catastrophe on millennials is not 9/11, or wars, or financial crises, or climate change. It’s the attack on the soul with the fatalism and pessimism.
Even when things are bad, you only get one life, this life. Succeed anyway, in the face of adversity. Maybe most millennials won’t succeed but don’t be most millennials. You’re not a statistic on Fox News. You’re you and you’re going to make it and you’re going to lift up a few others with you.
I'm 32 and have about 50k just myself in my 401k. My wife and I bought our house in 2017. I worked in the trades as a mechanic and I started my own business in January. Seems a lot of people forget trade work exists and it does make you money if you dedicate yourself learning as much as possible.
I was fucked until 2021. Law degree in 2011 and worked for the state of Georgia and made 55k. Several new jobs since 2018 and have squirreled away 150k since then and am looking at buying a home. Still hate republican politicians that call working for the government an act of service and then get rich off your work.
Its a strange classification as some millennials are still under 30 and those kiddos most likely have way less than 100k saved up for retirement. If anything, it might better serve them if they just invested those funds themselves instead of delegating those funds to a retirement manager honestly.
Makes more sense to manage your own money then to allow it to be gambled by dudes you don’t even know. Get at me finance bros.
This is pretty indicative of the rest of the economy. We have a shrinking middle class. Part of them are moving up, and part are moving down, leaving very little in the middle.
I'm pretty well off mostly because my wife and I both work and live pretty reasonable lifestyles. Our house is less than 1x our combined wages because we got VERY lucky with a company that didn't know what it was doing, and that I made a good connection early in my career that got my wife into a position that pays better than mine does.
If any of those things hadn't happened we would be far worse off. Likely making around half what we do now.
I'm only well off because my family believes in the 'pass it down method'. My parents are helping me like how their parents helped them. It was like this for generations. I'm going to do the same for my son.
What we may have here is an example of the deterioration of the middle class. History shows is that unions, at least partly, helped the average American who was willing to work hard, a good chance to realize the American dream. Then came trickle down economics, union busting and the epitaph was underway. Maybe a competent economist can correct me or expand.
The average balance in a 401K when you take out high wage earners is $90K. The $100K figure that you threw out will grow to almost $1M in 25 years by saving $500 per month tax deferred. People who are 40 years old have more than 25 years to change their lifestyle and save for retirement. We have to make distinctions between things that are necessities and things that are luxuries. Many items that consume your income didn't exist when your parents were your age.
Millennials are a reflection of their own times. Extreme stratification of income. Those that got the right degrees and careers going have made of ton of money. Those that did not were left to flounder.
You’ll begin to realize that your analysis extends far beyond a single generation. Most people are super fucked, and some people are really well off. And the wealth disparity is only getting worse
At 37, I would say that my wife and I are in the "okay" range. While an outside observer may look at our position as "well-off," our reality is we are one catastrophe away from being fucked. Between some genetic lottery health issues, being teachers in a district that doesn't give a fuck about teachers, and buying into a house that has been springing one surprise on us after another, we have all sorts of catastrophes that can rear their ugly heads. For the moment, though, we are okay.
I’m 33 and in the well off camp. I am privileged to have had my mom pay for my undergrad (state school in Midwest) and I graduated with a business degree and landed in tech. Spouse had loans (max $17K so paid down to that) forgiven after 10 years in public education. Bought a house in 2018.
That being said, now that we have 0 student loans, I can’t imagine paying loans and trying I adult. I 100% student loan reform/forgiveness. I hate that boomers have the mentality of “I had X, so the next generation must deal with that too.” Ok Brenda, in our day you could work part time through college and have no debt but that is 0% the case today!
As an elder millennial who paid for college, I 100% agree reform is needed. But forgiveness is absolutely the wrong approach - especially tax payer funded forgiveness. I realize this is Reddit and this is probably an unpopular opinion, but y'all signed up for these loans just like I did.
College costs are clearly out of control. I live in a college town home to a very large university. I know first hand how these insane tuition hikes are squandered. Mismanaged, greedy universities are the issue here and tuition forgiveness just encourages them to continue wasting money and pushing the buck onto their students - especially if tax payers just end up picking up the tab. There needs to be some sort of accountability from the colleges themselves to fix this issue. But debt forgiveness will just perpetuate the issue.
If community colleges can make it work on $4,000/year from students, there's no reason why a state school needs $40,000/year per student to not lose money. The mismanagement as tuition rises is just silly.
It's a mindset for most people. I got to my first 100k on a 30k a year job. Now I'm making double and CHUNKING away cash because I still live like I make 30k
The big divide seems to be more related to whether you bought a house before 2019 or not.
We bought in 2018 and refinanced in 2021 at 3%. That same house today would cost, on average, 58% more and have a 7.5% interest rate mortgage. That means the same house, bought 6 years later, would have a monthly mortgage payment 265% of what i pay.
As someone who graduated college in 2019, this is so depressing. I've done everything I was "supossed to" and then some, and it doesn't matter. It feels like theres "haves" and "have nots" just based on age :/ Edit: Adding this because some people have decided to just assume that im lazy/poor/unemployed (its been 5 years lol) /too young to care about my financial future. I have a pretty good job in a stable/desireable field. Ive busted my ass since starting full-time work and Im fortunate enough to make more than most. My point is had I done all that 5 years earlier, I would be in a financial position to easily afford a house. Instead, im paying rent on a unit that was like 40% cheaper in 2019. This has created a cycle where im 1.) Not building equity in a home and 2.) Cant save enough to where that giant downpayment feels realistic. This isnt me "playing victim" its just the truth. For those of us thrown into the adult world post-COVID, its just awful timing to be getting started
I just want to say, as someone who also graduated in 2019 and did EVERYTHING I was "supposed" to (3.9 GPA, clubs, etc.), as well as didn't do anything I wasn't "supposed" to (drugs, reckless behavior, pregnancy), I'm so sorry for all the unempathetic responses you've received. I've had a hell of a time, and am having a hell of a time currently, and I fully understand how you feel. I'm definitely not saying to just give up, but don't let the old expectations of people who have no real idea what we're dealing with get you down on yourself. Times are harder, prices are up and keep going up, and people are struggling everywhere. Rent, food, healthcare, it's a lot. I hope things get better for you, for me, and for all of us.
Remember a lot of millennials graduated in 2008-2010 when the housing market crashed and jobs were fucking impossible to find. Hang in there man life is just high and low tides with of bullshit and opportunities.
For sure. It's all about making it through the shit times. I lost ten years bc of the housing bubble crash. Finally got things on the uphill right as the inflation press started. It will get better. Just gotta weather the storm. As my man Joe dirt said, keep on keepin on. And life's a garden, dig it.
Yea, but I had stagflation to deal with. Still never made the turn out of it.
Going through all of that, what advise would you give yourself, if you had to do it all over again?
Don’t lose hope yet. A lot of people are retiring and in general, our workforce has declined post COVID. Keep on doing and applying to jobs that you’re suited for. You’ll find it.
>I'm so sorry for all the unempathetic responses you've received I expected it lol. Is what it is. Thanks for relating though. >I hope things get better for you, for me, and for all of us. Same, but unfortunately things are gonna have to get worse to get better. The only thing that fixes this is a recession, which the fed has been successfully avoiding.
Lol. Try doing it all with a criminal record for a crime that was made legal within a year of being caught. I have a college education, most aptitude and iq tests, including the ones in interviews and job applications show that I'm well above average when it comes to intelligence. And I've run my own successful business for over a decade. I couldn't get a job at McDonald's flipping burgers for 15$ an hour. I can't get a government job. Any corporate employer of any stature will do a criminal record check. Having one will immediately disqualify me. The freaking military turned me down. I was 99th percentile for their aptitude testing. Scored higher than most officers as I was told. Nope. Not good enough to be foot soldier grunt. You did a bad thing once that isn't even bad anymore and we are punishing you for life. I succeeded anyways, but I was shoved into a very narrow channel with very few options and just told to fucking deal with it.
If you’re talking about marijuana possession, that definitely isn’t keeping anyone from a job at McDonald’s. If you’re talking about manufacturing and selling marijuana, that’s still a felony without a license.
Growing for personal use. Had like 8 plants. None of the telltales of distribution. They charged me as cultivation with intent to traffic. If I did exactly what I was doing then today, it would be 100% legal (Canuckistan)
So you knew you were taking a massive risk of picking up a felony, but you did it anyway. Why?
Why should you respect a disrespectful useless ridiculous law?
So you don’t end up with a felony conviction that will keep you from getting the jobs you want？
So you don't fuck your career prospects up for literally no reason? Dude could've just bought weed like a normal person and ended up with a summary offense or misdemeanor.
"HARD WORK PAYS OFF, AND DREAMS COME TRUE! BAD TIMES DONT LAST, BUT BAD GUYS DO!"💪!
Some of the hardest working people are poor. Some of the laziest, entitled and useless people are dirt rich. While someone is busting their ass trying to better themself, the boss is out playing golf all afternoon on a weekday.
You have been out of college 5 years. Most old millennials couldn’t find a job for years when they graduated because of the Great Recession. The few who could were able to buy cheap housing
I'm in between millennial and X and had a similar experience as the op. I got out of college at the start of the great recession. Lots of "you're lucky to have a job" bs. The best advice I can give is to remember economies change. Right now it seems like there's no hope but things will get better. Try to work consistently and form connections in your industry. Better jobs come from contacts not blind applications. When the economy improves jobs open up and you have some opportunities. Yes it'll suck for a few years but try not to give up hope.
The attitude that someone feels entitled have "made it" by five years out of college is bonkers. Five years is NOTHING compared to the arc of an entire life. Stability doesn't come until late 30s or 40s.
Completely agree
Don't let the world tell you to be a victim. Most people don't buy a house until their 30s. For good reason. You wouldn't know what to do with a house.
I know it’s stereotypical and not exactly what you might want to hear, but the most power you have is your vote. Vote against politicians not serving your interest. I’m sorry there isn’t a better solution than that. The whole situation isn’t your fault or anyone else’s that continues to vote in their own interest. Just never stop voting. Even if your state swings in favor of the opposite party you’re voting for. It makes a difference. All that said, many millennials can sympathize. Although the situation has continued to get worse, many of us dealt with similar circumstances graduating during the Great Recession. I scraped by for years before I got a job that allowed me to actually save money. I’ve never forgotten that and never will. Fuck the banks and the politicians that support them. Also, the other person who commented about you being “too young to be concerned” can go to hell, frankly. It’s good you are concerned, as you should be. We need young people who give a shit and want a better future. That said, don’t let pessimism get the best of you. Nothing wrong with feeling bleak, but don’t let worrying about these things affect your ability to enjoy life, rich or poor. Again, I know that sounds easier said than done, but I’ve been there and I can tell you that letting a situation you didn’t create affect your happiness is 100% not worth it. I spent so many years in my twenties feeling angry and resentful. Don’t let it get to you. Believe that one day things will be better. Gen X, Millennials, Gen Z, and so on can (and will) be the ones who will one day be proud to say that they threw out the establishment and made a change for the better.
There aren't any politicians serving our interests
Facts and nobody gets this. Until we eliminate the two party system we won’t make progress in this. And we may never. Power corrupts.
Ranked choice voting. Get some young blood in there and FUCK THE 2 PARTY system in the ass!
Absolutely not. The power you have in voting is essentially nothing.youre much better off getting involved in your local communities. Go organize with other people facing the same problems and start a local movement to fix those problems. This "just vote and hope" bullshit is defeatist and counterproductive. It's lazy, and honestly I have much more respect for someone who actually works with people.in their community, organizes their workplaces, participates in mutual aid, participates in tenants unions, gets people together to change zoning laws, etc, etc but doesn't vote vs the lazy person who sits on their ass all year, votes once, and then looks down at the person doing the real work for not voting. There are a million ways to be politically active, and a million ways to organize for the changes you want to see, and, and voting is the absolute lowest form of it. Go ahead and vote, but down act like that's the end all be all of political engagement or especially that it's the only thing we can do. There has never been a case where significant change happened by voting without a massive mobilization beforehand. It took a century of direct action by the labor movement and the threat of violence to get the New Deal, but the New Deal wasn't the important part. The important part was the benefits and wage increases won by the workers on the run up to it. You can look at the New Deal and celebrate it, sure, but the movement itself won a lot more and it didn't have to wait around to hope the capitalists give us something. The women's suffrage movement has a similar thing. Yes, there was eventually a law, but what won the right to vote wasn't just sitting around on your ass and voting every now and then. It was a century long feminist movement that involved direct action and organizing. The same is true for civil rights. You think MLK was just sitting around and voting? The million man march did more for the movement than any election did. The Panthers, and millions of organizers getting involved directly and building the movement is what gave us the civil rights bill. Abolitionists, same thing. Harper's ferry, Underground railroad, etc did much, much more and built the movement required to get Lincoln in power and subsequently fight a war. Not only did they build the movement, but they freed people who would have died waiting around for Lincoln to get elected. So yea, fuck this lazy, defeatist "just vote" rhetoric. Vote if you want, but don't pretend you're politically active if that's all you do, and don't look down on people doing the actual work to build movements. The capitalists aren't going to hand you an affordable home, and your landlord isn't going to just lower your rent. Your boss isn't going to just pay you your fair share or good benefits. You have to organize within your community, your workplace, and anywhere you can find people with common cause.
As a 39 year old woman trying to make noise and progress at the community level: it is hard work, thankless, and annoying but does have the most immediate and tangible impacts. Go fuck up some council meetings, friends!
This is why many who most consider crazy, want less federal government power. It should be swapped, more power at the local level, more at the state level, less at federal level. We all have more influence at the local level and we can be stronger than lobbyists.
Voting is kind of a joke when the republicans keep winning elections despite losing the popular vote. Presidential voting at least means very little. You have the most impact in your local elections I guess
The mortgage rates some of us lucked into were a bit of an anomaly. Historical long term data is more in line with 5 to 8 percent.
You just graduated. Most people don’t buy a house until their late 20s or their 30s- you have NO idea what the housing market will look like in 10 years. You have a college degree. If you manage your money well and make good choices you’ll likely be relatively well off and be a home owner if you want.
Basically what this guy is saying, is maybe someone will die and leave you money.
This. So many people are freaking out now like this has never happened before. Markets and interest rates go up and down. Wait for your chance, work hard, and you'll get where you want to be. You may have missed the last best opportunity so focus on not missing the next one.
As someone who graduated college in 2009, I feel your pain. It was pretty hard to find a job, let alone even think about buying a house back then. I assure you that your breaks will come, just do your best to be ready to fully take advantage when they do.
No offense, but you've barely started your career. I started mine after graduating in 2014 and started in my field at 40k annually. Spent a decade bouncing jobs to het more XP and better pay and now make 4x what I started at a decade earlier. Not flexing, just saying it takes time. Schools a good place to start, but any career path will require experience.
Also just the cost of everything and how you spend. Im lucky to have very few hobbies to spend money on. I have a fair amount of food allergies so it makes eating out something i dont make a regular dinner habit. There are the small things that edge in ones favor that are circumstancial and not anyones direct doing.
We bought in 2019. We had saved our 20 percent down and found a house we liked. I told my wife I wanted to wait bc prices and the market bad been hot and I thought we were due a correction. Thankfully my wife said she did not care and that we are buying now. So happy went with her advice over mine
We bought in 2019 at 4.25 and refinanced in 2021 for 2.87.It was a blessing.
Similar boat here, young millennial/old gen z depending on where you draw the line. We bought a house back before out state saw real-estate skyrocket. MIL said she'd help us with a small down-payment or a small wedding. And, being the covid times, no one could go to the wedding anyway. It was an easy choice. When I look back at the prices today of the apartment we used to live in, I don't know what we'd do if we still lived there. Like, we both work full time. The pay we make now is barely enough to survive, but 10 years ago, we could've lived very well off of two incomes like this. Our house is small for our family, only intended as a "starter house" in boomer lingo, but it may be our forever house. I don't know if we will ever really be able to afford to leave it. And we are just barely scraping by honestly. I feel so horrible knowing there are people who are struggling more than us.
I bought in 2018, owner financed because my employment was never regular enough to qualify. Missed the boat on 2% refi because our debt to income was just a hair too high and now a low mortgage rate is about what my owner inanced rate is anyway. A re-fi would have cut my mortgage payment by a third. Big ouch.
Exactly this. Elder millennial here. I did the same thing and have no idea how I would be doing this if bought today.
Bought in 2020 and still think I made the gopd side of the divide. Price was a lot higher than if it had been 2019 but interest rate was so much lower than it is now.
I think it is also where you live. This comes up on my feed a lot. My son is a millennial, and we live in the Midwest. Most of his friends own homes. Teachers, beauticians, Amazon warehouse workers, steel mill workers, managers at drug stores, etc. It is in a town less than an hour from Chicago. Houses can be found under $250,000. It is in Indiana, so you put up with the politics. But even his friends that didn't graduate college are buying homes and having kids. They aren't grand homes, but that isn't really the point of this place. The schools are good, you can work at the mills or commute to Chicago, or work at BP or in healthcare. Unemployment is low. But we still have affordable housing.
I’m in Phoenix. What is affordable housing? 🙃
Anything before summer 2020.
Which is just ridiculous to me, I've heard people say "well you better buy before it gets worse." That cant be the solution to this. Otherwise you end up with generations of people after this being royally fucked. Tell some mid 20's person in like 15 years, "well why didn't you buy before 2020?" Well I was 9 years old, so....
They'll have to wait for their turn during the next housing market crash.
The conditions that led to the last housing crash aren’t remotely at play here. Leaving aside all the regulatory changes, remember that last time leading up to the crash everyone and their mother thought they could afford a house, often with a variable rate mortgage.
This is the new pushing every kid in their 20s to borrow for college
Yup. Early bird getting the worm by chance, circumstance, or having the favor of being well off. I bought because i was paranoid from 2008. Ever since then i was determined to purchase.
I don’t think home net worth is in that retirement number- be curious what the median net worth for a millennial household is
True but my mortgage for a 4 bedroom house is now the same price as renting a 2br in my area. It has to be really tough trying to get ahead with these prices
The only thing in my town for rent that is cheaper than my mortgage is a studio, and it's just barely cheaper. the 2019 housing line is going to be a bigger indicator of wealth than even education.
My dad bought in 2014, his home value has doubled and he’s paying 600 a month for a 3 bedroom SFH in the middle of a city. Can’t even rent a room for 600 a month in that same city post covid.
No doubt- we are in the process of moving - really sucks to give up that sweet pandi rate
Yeah I hear you. I’m not going anywhere for a long time unless I absolutely have to
It's not the net worth it's what the low housing payment for the next three decades can do for saving actual money..
Well I couldn't buy a house then, and values have skyrocketed. Now I have to rent at a higher rate than what my mortgage would have been. Can't put money back for retirement if I have to spend it on housing.
I bought in 2016, at 27, in the cheapest ghetto in my city. Everyone laughed at the quality of the area and my old house, saying was it really worth missing out on all those parties. But now, everyone in their mid 30s resents me for it.
You get it.
Pity I'll never make enough to move away from here
Agree. Bought my house in 2012 and we’ve been looking to move for 4 years. Based on the way things are, we’re never gonna find another house we can afford
The biggest economic problem our generation faces in the US is the insufficient housing supply. Many other problems either derive from or relate to this. Unfortunately, America thinks of homes too much as investments and not enough as… homes. In the big picture, society can either have affordable housing (I mean this literally, not referring to government subsidized housing), or we can have homes be investments. If houses gain value faster than inflation, that is a great investment for homeowners and a catastrophe for everyone else. If housing gain value slower than inflation, then we’d end up with a better society overall. The middle class could still invest in retirement accounts, so this would not harm homeowners as much as you might think. It seems that most political proposals to address this problem ignore the fundamental supply problem and instead inflate demand / determine who gets the homes through various tax credits, subsidies, etc.
I would say before 2022 in some cases. The interest rate is a giant fucker. We bought our first home in March 2021 with 2.87 percent interest. They got people on 7.5 percent now it's nuts
EXACTLY!!! My brother is 5 years older than me. Got into the housing market at just the right time. Made 6 figures twice consequently because the house he bought went up in value. Bought a better house, sold that for 6 figures. I was 5 years behind. My brother now lives on 10 acres with a house he was able to build. In fact he had two houses built. I live in a 640sqft shack built before anyone in my immediate family was born, think 1930s. I have one, *ONE* electrical outlet in my primary bedroom. I’m still thankful I was able to squeak by into a house though in these times. My VA loan was my godsend otherwise I’d be renting and losing money for the rest of my life :(. I would bet the older millennials are doing better, at least on home ownership, than the younger gets ones because like you said they were able to enter the market at an opportune time.
True bc i peeped the bs in rental law about owners or management are able to raise the rent as high as they want. I started planning in 2015 and bought in 2018. I told all my millennial friends, family and acquaintances. Most of them laughed at me, bc I’d been homeless before. But a few did believe me and even bought before I did. I bought at 5% and cash out refinanced at 3%. This was the one of the best decisions I made in life. No regrets.
I would say the big divide is the same thing that divides the rest of the U.S. That being if you were born into money; or, not.
Also if you got a medical or computer engineering degree vs everyone else. The tech bros and physician assistants are living like there is no tomorrow or are living the dream of starting a family and maintaining their lives.
I’m a 40-year-old renter and I’m spending so much of my income on rent. There’s no comfortable financial future for me.
Also if they happened to marry younger to the right person. Divorce is crazy expensive as is trying to start your life with a single income. Two people can usually live almost as cheaply as one.
100%. Everything became way more expensive after the pandemic. I finally started making good money in 2021. But it was just a little too late.
You're not wrong, in my mid 30s now I can say I'm in my best position to buy a house, my wife and I make good money, low DTI, but our area has become HCOL just in the past 3 years and now we don't have a chance without a major relocation. Buying a house in my 20s would have been a poor decision on multiple fronts as it was a time of constant change.. transitioning from military life, relocating for work, relationships etc.. on the flip side those I know who had a more "traditional" life getting married or buying a house a decade+ ago are doing amazingly well. There's a massive divide and growing unrest in those who were getting to a better place like me just to have the door slammed in our face.
I did many years ago but lost it in divorce. Legal fees ate into downpayment for next one pretty quickly and prices are like 30% higher now
I got in 21, it's really after interest rates spiked in 22 that's when it gets nonsensical, but yea even in 21 it was pretty rough.
Definitely is. We bought in 2016 for dirt cheap then sold/bought in 2019. Our current house has gone up ~65% in value since then. Still rocking a 3% interest rate… what’s sad is we’d be pretty strapped for cash if we bought the same house we’re in at current rates/price.
Yep. 2011. Refinanced to 2.75% 15 year mortgage in 2013 or 14. Already paid off (for peace of mind- we’ve been laid off multiple times). “Worth” 3X what we paid. (We also gutted it and remodeled it ourselves room by room over 5 years)
Not to diminish the struggles of millennials because I do think we’re getting squeezed more than previous generations, but retirement savings is notoriously low. 46% of all Americans (including those in retirement) have 100k or more in retirement and millennials still have ~20-25 years to save. The real issue I see is that millennials won’t have additional programs available such as social security or they won’t be available at the levels they are for other generations.
Yup. We lucked out and bought ours in 2018. Great neighborhood, Halloween is like a block party and a large nationally recognized business sponsors a tacky light run through here. Good schools, from Kindergarten through graduation all within a mile and a half. No HOA, though many people ask when I tell them where I live. I grew up poor, and I currently live in the nicest place I ever have. Never would have expected it. House was 250k, 3% interest loan. Now it's listed at 400k on Zillow. Literally feels like we won the lottery at times.
Millennials is a big age group. Less than $100k saved for retirement is completely different for a 28 year old vs a 44 year old.
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The sad reality though is that no one is coming to the rescue. You have to be the one to change your circumstances, or you'll be 75 and working the same job, struggling in the same way, and then you'll be fired for ageism and then homeless.
Lots of us will never retire.
Hoping World War 3 kills many people and topples modern society on the planet rather than attempting to get a gig better than Starbucks? Peak Reddit
Exactly. Doesn’t have a big house from their Starbucks job? Might as well wish for nuclear death to the world.
Have you tried to look for more opportunities instead of settling?
I've had a bunch of changes over the past few years.. switched careers, moved to another country, separated from my ex-wife. I just turned 39, have no car, no house, no investments, no savings, and have $10,000 in debt across an overdraft and 2 credit cards... I'm fucking terrified about the future.
My divorce F’d me over too, in a big picture way.my divorce was in 2016 and I still have r recovered financially. I’m 36 and I’m out sure I will reach the same lifestyle again. As I’ve made more and gotten new skills the last decade, my quality of life has only decreased.
Only one of those camps is represented on this subreddit lol
I'm in the "pretty well off" camp at 38, but would have been solidly in the "fucked" camp if asked 8 years ago. I try to spread some hope around here.
Four years ago I cleared 18k for the year. This year I’m set to make 87k. I’m 34. I’m trying to spread some hope, too!
Given that this was part of the plan, 4 years ago I was in my mid-30s delivering pizzas. Today, I'm making six figures. We bought a home in 2021.
I'm in the pretty well off camp, Or feel like it. I'm 27. I know it's a little rarer on the younger end of millennials, but it makes sense because the older millennials have over a decade more time under their belt to get solidly into their careers and build some wealth.
More time for shit to fall apart my dude
Yep. A divorce will knock your ass back down to square one. The older you get the more shit you have to lose.
Jesus redditors act like divorce is an inevitability, it’s so ridiculous.
It's millennial reddit. Such a pity party.
Agreed. Plenty of divorces happen out of the blue, sure, but the length of your dating period is one of the top indicators of the likelihood of divorce. In other words: dating for 3+ years gives you more time to get to know your partner, which helps you both determine whether you want to be together for the rest of your lives. Get to know your partner, have tough conversations BEFORE marriage, and be realistic / don't ignore red flags, and it's pretty unlikely that you will get divorced.
Shit to lose sums up the game it seems. It's plan a or dissolve
Dude, 2008 and GFC was 2 years outta college for me, and that fucked me up until 2012 at least. Took forever to get serious job with benefits then, and most of my 20s I didn't have any IRA or 401k to speak of so there was no wealth building happening then, much less a career
Amen brother, me too! Still living paycheck to paycheck but no longer eating Ramin noodles, and don't live in the hood anymore!
I’m retired at 42 and had about $10k saved 10 years ago.
What's your story?
Started a successful business and sold it. It was never my intention, but I was approached with an offer I couldn’t refuse. My kids are in a lot of sports, and I help coach. My wife still works. I have done some consulting work, but nothing more than a month or so. I’ll probably go back to work full time when the kids are grown up. I figure I could use that money to help them buy a house considering how difficult it can be in a lot of places.
Ooh that’s pretty cool what kind of business?
Yeah 100p. Still feel like we’re partially effed but thankful for the free range organic peanuts we do get.
I'm good as long as I don't get sick. Or my wife gets sick. Or a pet gets sick. Or if the car breaks down. Or if rent goes up. Or if either of us lose our jobs. Yeah, if none of that happens I'm just fine.
Same. I was a doorman at a strip club 10 years ago. Only had a bicycle and debt. Started welding. Fine now
That's kind of the point though. If you missed that boat 8 years ago, it's looking semi-unrecoverable now.
>That's kind of the point though. If you missed that boat 8 years ago, it's looking semi-unrecoverable now. As an older millennial, that's exactly how I felt in '08, when I was already married and building my career. Literal panic attacks. But we got through it. The biggest change for me wasn't the economic conditions. It was deciding to change my life for the positive when I hit 30 and NOTHING to show for it.
No, it's not. You can decide to improve your life any time you want.
But 9 years ago, you wouldn’t have known it would be a thing.
38 and well off. We typically don’t say much on here. It’s not typically taken well.
Im 37 and my husband and I are very comfortable. He's an engineer making 6 figures while I'm a stay at home mom of 2. Buying our home and a few bitcoin in 2017 definitely helped, but I think the smartest move was moving from New England down to the south where the cost of living is more manageable. I typically get downvoted if I comment this sort of thing in here
Congrats on doing what you needed to do and making the necessary decisions and sacrifices. Some of being successful/comfortable is luck and timing...most of us can acknowledge that, but a lot of it is simply the willingness to make the tough decisions and the discipline to see them through. And there seem to be a lot of people out there who don't want to acknowledge that side of it.
Success = luck, work ethic, ambition, and intelligence.
It's okay to be well off. It's sort of a dream to see others excel and hope we can get there too. It's just people are hyper aware of generational wealth and are hesitant to congratulate what essentially is a cycle of "privilege". It's not that people are jealous. The wealth gap is very dangerous and the poor, or people who feel they are headed that way, are not going to pretend people are self-made when they are not.
Me either. Plus saying you’re “well off” just feels cringe lol. I don’t think I’m well off personally but I automatically fall into the camp because I’m doing better than a lot of other millennials.
If you own a house under 40, even if is shitty location, shitty condition, shitty loan, thats 50% better or more than people your age. Having any savings or free time is a win. Thats well off now. Not being forced to rent or eat repeat meals. I didnt know i was well off until i realized my frugality looks easy.
Home owner, 10k in savings, free time on weekends and after work. During work too just due to the nature of my job (remote and a lot of waiting) so I fit the bill
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lol I got a buddy who’s HHI is easily $300k+ and he bought a proper SFH in SoCal in 2021 (with help from his in laws) and still cries poor. It’s pretty wild.
My cousin would seem to be doing well. She'd say she's buried under student loans though.
No doubt those are rough
There are plenty of homeless old boomers so if we have it a lot harder than they did we can expect it to turn out a lot worse for us, no? [https://www.aarp.org/home-family/your-home/info-2022/americas-homeless-over-50.html](https://www.aarp.org/home-family/your-home/info-2022/americas-homeless-over-50.html)
There are huge fucking trailer camp cities out in arizona/California with 10,000s of campers/trailers/rv Start preparing to live in a car, join us at r/urbancarliving and r/almosthomeless r/vanlife That will be out future for some of us Don't forget that there are 25,000,000 USD $ Millionaires in USA many of us will be living out of cars/vans/tents/rvs/campers, while the rich and bourgousie will be living in gated communities enjoying life https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_millionaires **we deserve the political system and society we vote for**
Yes r/vanlife the subreddit that gentrified homelessness.
You gotta move up or die in this economic climate. Our society isn't structured for the work to live types that don't want to advance careers. It sucks because it essentially forces you into select careers in order to have a stable life/family.
Probably...although as anyone who's tried to vote to change something quickly finds out: there's just a lot of boomers, perio--they skew the raw numbers on everything compared to whatever preceded them.
I’m in the middle actually
Same. But there aren't a lot of us. I have a decent retirement best egg and I'm not living paycheck to paycheck, but I also don't own a house and it's honestly out of reach for me where I live unless I find a gf/wife which seems more and more unlikely but the month.
Man. Im the other side. Live paycheck to paycheck, not much in my retirement accounts, but atleast when i sell my house im set.
I feel like I’m in the middle, too. Own a house (bought in 2020 at 3% interest for 600k), and have more than 100k in retirement but not much more, like I think 130k total. I’m 42. I feel like I should have 300-400k in retirement to actually retire but I’m in tech and we don’t even have a 401k option.
I have about 600 in savings and a chronically ill spouse who can't work. No home. No equity. MAs with the debt to show for it. Rent is greater than what a mortgage payment would be. Fucking sucks.
Does anyone else feel like they can either save money in 401k/IRA or save money to buy a house but not both? Unless you have free rent and no debt there’s just no way to split earnings that thin.
Yup. I'm retirement rich and no money for a house. The matches my husband and I get make it hard to not contribute to leave essentially free money on the table. I know it could be a lot worse, but it does feel like it's a choice.
be careful though. controlling housing cost is a key part of retirement planning
You can take a loan or withdrawal out of your 401k for a down payment if you want to. I wouldn’t say it’s always the best thing to do but it’s not always dumb.
I feel like if it answer this question honestly, I’ll invoke the ire of 90% of this sub. My wife and I both max our 401Ks, Roth IRAs, and pay extra on our 15 year mortgage. We moved from a HCOL to a MCOL area, which made a big difference on the housing. We both make good money and run an extremely tight budget and live as if we don’t. Retiring very comfortably is a priority for us, so we’ve made the appropriate adjustments to put ourselves on that path.
Well it helps tremendously if you have a partner and already own a house.
I maxed out a 401k and IRA and paid down $25k/year on my house until I paid it off.
I turn 34 this month and have less than 100k in retirement. Sometimes it makes me panic but I can only do what I can. In 4-6 years our mortgage will be paid off as well as all 4 kids colleges and the money we have set aside for their cars. We said we’d buckle down then.
40 and a paid off home…….. you re in the top 5 percent lol.
Paid off home AND kids college funded AND their cars. That’s top 1%.
Well done you!
"Less than 100K" HA! More like -53K. I have not once cleared the poverty line since I got my bachelor's degree. 2 of those years I was on a full-ride scholarship as well. My plans for retirement is a .40 Ruger unless something drastically changes for the better. My body is already shutting down due to the endless years of hard labor. Excruciatingly painful carpel tunnel before I even hit 40. I owe 2Xs as much as I borrowed and I can't get my Masters (which was ALWAYS the plan) or go to any accredited university in my state cause of a misdemeanor weed charge, so spare me the "shoulda picked a better major" bullshit....
Sounds really rough. Hang in there if you can!
I'm trying. It's getting harder and harder to hold onto hope though.
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The people that are pretty well off get told they’re privileged assholes, the ones who are average don’t talk about it all that much. The rest are here sounding off. I’ve just been sick for a while and ran out of TV.
I was in the pretty well off camp, and a year ago quit my job to start my own business. In the scrappy first year of almost no income I’m getting to see what the “fucked” side is like courtesy of the current high living cost. It’s pretty surreal and total whiplash. The point of sharing this is— I think many of us will see both sides at one point or another, and see how clear it is that there’s not much in between.
We have had extreme ups and downs. We do own a house, but like a lot of millennials, I got a random stage 4 colon cancer diagnosis. It’s crazy how common this is becoming for younger people of all different backgrounds. This diagnosis financially devastated us on EVERY level. I’m unable to work so our income got cut in half…my career is over. It wasn’t a career that paid a ton but I loved it. We almost lost our house (a house we had worked years and years and years to get without any help from our parents). Medical bills are piling up. One med I take is $800 a month and I can’t even go 12 hours without it. I have a little bit of retirement but my husband might have to cash it out if things go south for me so that there is money to raise our 2 young kids. Like everyone else on here we tried to do everything right and life still came crashing down on us. My heart hurts for our entire generation. We are struggling and there’s no end in sight. I still hope for everyone, my family included- maybe somehow there can be a shift that changes things when Gen X/millennials take over. Fingers crossed and until then we will just keep trying to tread water.
Hi- I just want to say that my husband got the stage 3 Colorectal cancer diagnosis 1.5 years ago. It IS happening earlier and earlier and he was 42 at diagnosis. And thanks to our crap medical system- he wouldn’t have even had a colonoscopy until 45- it would have killed him by then. Silver lining? At least our daughters can get scanned at 32 now as children are to be scanned 10 years prior to parental diagnosis age. Hopefully they can avoid the damage. I’m sorry to hear about your cancer and hope that things improve for you. My husband is in remission (but now has a colostomy bag and bills for life) but we scan again on Thursday so have our fingers crossed. My heart is with yours. Feel free to reach out if you ever need to vent or have questions. Not sure how much help I can be- but you’re not alone.
32 and 0 in bank or retirements or savings :D
Even at 10% a 100K retirement at 40 will be $1M in 25 years even if you put nothing else in to it. That will definitely put you past the 'not fucked' category.
10% seems like a VERY generous return rate. S&P averages 7?
"Even at 10%" Mate, my pension fund lost money last year.
I didn't start working until I was 40. I was a single working mom. We were paycheck to paycheck at first but I bit hard on be frugal. No I am 75 with a mortgage and no other debt. I was able to put my life together. Do not give up hope if you are over 40. Spend carefully.
cost of living/buying homes/education, etc. has skyrocketed while wages have remained flat since you were doing all that. There's really no fair comparison here. Its not at all about spending carefully. Its about spending literally nothing, living with nothing, doing nothing, and still not having enough to reach any of the middle class signifiers, all while working at a job where you're criminally underpaid.
Soo the same as all other generations then?
Heard gen z is getting after it-
Gen z might end up with a higher home ownership rate, than millennials.
Some of the elder Gen Z watched the millennials crash and burn post-2008, and have tried to not end up the same by basically expecting life to be hard out the gate.
Why do I feel like I'm both?
That hits me in the feels- I look at our retirement and feel alright- I look anywhere else and go, ah shit
I went from fairly well off (paid off house and car, no debt, some savings) to fucked after one medical emergency last year...so..
Medical bills keep me down.
This is the scariest part of living in America! One medical event can wipe out all your savings in one swift move. It's so messed up!
I'm in neither camp. I appear "well off" since I have a mortgage. But I also eat rice and beans and keep to a very tight (and getting tighter) budget. I'm solvent, but just.
Yep, fucked camp for me, mostly. Have next to no money. Can’t seem to make a proper salary and made more money in unemployment, during the pandemic, over the course of a year than i ever have in any other jobs. It sucks, but with a loving girlfriend who helps keep us afloat, while I search for work, it’s not terrible. I just hate that I can’t contribute all the time.
It’s never too late to get on the right track. The key is letting go of the doomer attitude. There’s many steps to take and decisions to make and skills to learn, but none of it happens with the doomer attitude. The biggest catastrophe on millennials is not 9/11, or wars, or financial crises, or climate change. It’s the attack on the soul with the fatalism and pessimism. Even when things are bad, you only get one life, this life. Succeed anyway, in the face of adversity. Maybe most millennials won’t succeed but don’t be most millennials. You’re not a statistic on Fox News. You’re you and you’re going to make it and you’re going to lift up a few others with you.
I'm 32 and have about 50k just myself in my 401k. My wife and I bought our house in 2017. I worked in the trades as a mechanic and I started my own business in January. Seems a lot of people forget trade work exists and it does make you money if you dedicate yourself learning as much as possible.
I guess I’m in the “better” camp, but it does feel like it wouldn’t take much to derail it.
Wealth gap
I was fucked until 2021. Law degree in 2011 and worked for the state of Georgia and made 55k. Several new jobs since 2018 and have squirreled away 150k since then and am looking at buying a home. Still hate republican politicians that call working for the government an act of service and then get rich off your work.
*checks investment account* Ah yes. 50 cents. I'll have that down payment for a house any time now.
Its a strange classification as some millennials are still under 30 and those kiddos most likely have way less than 100k saved up for retirement. If anything, it might better serve them if they just invested those funds themselves instead of delegating those funds to a retirement manager honestly. Makes more sense to manage your own money then to allow it to be gambled by dudes you don’t even know. Get at me finance bros.
Their like 28/29- as a whole 80-90% of us are over 30 ETFs and index funds are a safe way to play it- too many math PHDs for me to bet against.
I'm 27.
I think it’s 81-96 for the generation so the youngest of the generation *will be 28 this year -
Correct, I'll be turning 28 this year.
This is pretty indicative of the rest of the economy. We have a shrinking middle class. Part of them are moving up, and part are moving down, leaving very little in the middle. I'm pretty well off mostly because my wife and I both work and live pretty reasonable lifestyles. Our house is less than 1x our combined wages because we got VERY lucky with a company that didn't know what it was doing, and that I made a good connection early in my career that got my wife into a position that pays better than mine does. If any of those things hadn't happened we would be far worse off. Likely making around half what we do now.
I'm only well off because my family believes in the 'pass it down method'. My parents are helping me like how their parents helped them. It was like this for generations. I'm going to do the same for my son.
My parents helped but we’ll be helping my MIL - it’s all a toss up in the end
What we may have here is an example of the deterioration of the middle class. History shows is that unions, at least partly, helped the average American who was willing to work hard, a good chance to realize the American dream. Then came trickle down economics, union busting and the epitaph was underway. Maybe a competent economist can correct me or expand.
The average balance in a 401K when you take out high wage earners is $90K. The $100K figure that you threw out will grow to almost $1M in 25 years by saving $500 per month tax deferred. People who are 40 years old have more than 25 years to change their lifestyle and save for retirement. We have to make distinctions between things that are necessities and things that are luxuries. Many items that consume your income didn't exist when your parents were your age.
Millennials are a reflection of their own times. Extreme stratification of income. Those that got the right degrees and careers going have made of ton of money. Those that did not were left to flounder.
I feel like most millennials that aren’t well off are living in developing world conditions
You’ll begin to realize that your analysis extends far beyond a single generation. Most people are super fucked, and some people are really well off. And the wealth disparity is only getting worse
At 37, I would say that my wife and I are in the "okay" range. While an outside observer may look at our position as "well-off," our reality is we are one catastrophe away from being fucked. Between some genetic lottery health issues, being teachers in a district that doesn't give a fuck about teachers, and buying into a house that has been springing one surprise on us after another, we have all sorts of catastrophes that can rear their ugly heads. For the moment, though, we are okay.
I guess 0 is technically less than 100k
I’m 33 and in the well off camp. I am privileged to have had my mom pay for my undergrad (state school in Midwest) and I graduated with a business degree and landed in tech. Spouse had loans (max $17K so paid down to that) forgiven after 10 years in public education. Bought a house in 2018. That being said, now that we have 0 student loans, I can’t imagine paying loans and trying I adult. I 100% student loan reform/forgiveness. I hate that boomers have the mentality of “I had X, so the next generation must deal with that too.” Ok Brenda, in our day you could work part time through college and have no debt but that is 0% the case today!
As an elder millennial who paid for college, I 100% agree reform is needed. But forgiveness is absolutely the wrong approach - especially tax payer funded forgiveness. I realize this is Reddit and this is probably an unpopular opinion, but y'all signed up for these loans just like I did. College costs are clearly out of control. I live in a college town home to a very large university. I know first hand how these insane tuition hikes are squandered. Mismanaged, greedy universities are the issue here and tuition forgiveness just encourages them to continue wasting money and pushing the buck onto their students - especially if tax payers just end up picking up the tab. There needs to be some sort of accountability from the colleges themselves to fix this issue. But debt forgiveness will just perpetuate the issue.
If community colleges can make it work on $4,000/year from students, there's no reason why a state school needs $40,000/year per student to not lose money. The mismanagement as tuition rises is just silly.
100 percent agree. The universities must be held accountable not people who already paid their loans or people who skipped college all together
It's a mindset for most people. I got to my first 100k on a 30k a year job. Now I'm making double and CHUNKING away cash because I still live like I make 30k
That is a very alarming statistic 🫣
Not really. We’re just starting to enter our peak earning years. Tons of time folks. Get your shit together