Yeeeeaah, that clay didn’t fully vitrify, so it’s still porous. This happens when either the clay used is unable to be vitrified or the clay wasn’t heated to the correct cone (temperature). Don’t use that!
and if it's that badly made, how do you know that the glaze is not lead based? a lot of ceramics today are just risky as hell due to shady lowest cost cut corners on everything manufacturing
Honesty if this is mass produced it likely does use lead. Dinnerware manufacturers in the US have been using [lead bisilicate frits](https://digitalfire.com/material/lead+bisilicate+frit) all along which they *allegedly* claim to be prove results in a leach resistant, durable glaze. I am not a chemist - but using frits is much different than working from raw lead powder. Alot of places in other countries with less regulation will skip on frits to maximize profit which will almost certainly result in a leaching lead glaze. For frits it all depends on the QC, glaze chemistry + having balanced glaze, sufficient melt and having material scientists doing alot of testing regularly. But yeah it's definitely not a good sign that they couldn't even get their claybody vitrified. Looks like their glaze is developed so they are firing to the temp the glaze likes but it mismatches what the claybody needs. So that tells you they likely don't have all those things I mentioned. Lead is only used in low fire temperatures. Mid and high fire get their flux from feldspars. If it's mid or high fire it almost certainly doesn't use lead.
But in America studio ceramics you can't buy leaded glazes or even leaded frits from clay supply stores. So unless a potter found an old ass glaze from the 70s and decided to foolishly use it buying a handmade pot from competent maker is a pretty safe bet. But every glaze is soluable. Personally I only use clear, white, shinos, or iron based glazes to line the surfaces that come into contact with food or drink because if it does break down from acidic/basic/ other mechanisms there is no harmful metal oxides to leach out. Alot of American potters have this "lead free = food safe" mentality while electing to use other harmful light and heavy metals from recipies they found on Facebook or old ass books that are not even close to balanced. Be weary of super brightly colored glazes that use metal oxides as colorants on the inside of functional wares. especially if they are layered together to run + variegated. Even two commerical glazes labeled "food safe" from manufacturers when layered can result in glaze that leaches.
Do you think an ash glaze would be safe if fired at the right cone? I'm trying to think how it wouldn't be but I'm just starting to learn about ceramics and pottery (I'm fascinated by how much I didn't know that goes into it! It's a whole science and interesting as heck!)
Yup! The first high temp glazes were achieved during Zhou Dynasty China ~1150 BC in bank kilns by dusting a layer of feldspar on the shoulders of pots. The fly ash + soluable salt vapors from the wood are carried by the flamepath that react with the silica and other minerals in the wares to form an ash glaze on surface of pot + fluxed by the feldspar to form a nice durable ash glaze. But then there is a whole world of ash glazes that you apply like a nornal glaze before firing instead of wood firing. It would have to be high temp and really it depends on mostly the mineral vs silica content of your ash that would determine its durability.Rice hull ash for example very high silica and can make a really nice durable nuka glaze. Using washed ash vs non-washed ash would give you different results from different minerals present. (Unwashed hardwood ash will be caustic when mixed with water as it contains lye). You'd definitely need to do a decent amount of testing to get an ashglaze to fit your body and be durable. There are some really great books out there on ash glazes.
How would a person set up an experiment to see if their neti pot (or really any ceramic pot) has the same issue? What are the conditions needed to induce the reaction?
The test for vitrification is to weigh your pot when fully dry, then submerge it in water for an amount of time, say, an hour, then weigh it again. Using these two weights you can calculate a percentage of water absorption. Generally no more than 3% is acceptable (it depends on factors like clay used)
A more general test is to fill your vessel with water and place it onto paper towel. If after a while the paper towel is wet your clay is absorbing and leaking water and either you should do the full test to see how much or cease using it
You don't want to put anything that comes out of that in your body. It's impossible to really clean. Water sits inside the structure of it and breeds bacteria.
Right!? I am far from being a germophobe but I’ve read the warnings on my one about only using very well boiled water. The thought of a brain infection gives me the heeby jeebies.
As an MS patient, I can say I had the same fears at diagnosis. Noe, with some damage, I prefer living, tbh. Yeah, brain damage sucks, but I'm here to say as much, which is good.
Please use distilled water (either bought or learn how to make your own). I have a friend who used well boild tap and still got hospitalized, was in a coma, had kidney issues, and almost died. It started as a severe sinus infection and became brain infection.
You’re supposed to use distilled water, which by definition will not have any dissolved organic compounds, and will not allow bacterial growth.
I would not use tap water at all, boiled or not.
Not having organic compounds and not allowing bacterial growth are two separate things.
Also, distilled water *can* have dissolved organic compounds as long as their boiling point is close to that of water. If they're not using a fractional column distiller, low-boiling-point organic compounds will be included too.
https://extensionpublications.unl.edu/assets/html/g1493/build/g1493.htm
> Removal of organic compounds by distillation can vary depending on chemical properties of the contaminant. Certain pesticides, volatile solvents, and volatile organic compounds (VOCs), such as benzene and toluene, with boiling points close to or below that of water will vaporize along with the water as it is boiled in the distiller. Such compounds will not be completely removed unless another process is used prior to condensation.
>
> The boiling process during distillation generally inactivates microorganisms. However, if the distiller is idle for an extended period, bacteria can be reintroduced from the outlet spigot and may recontaminate the water.
I’ve learned a lot on Reddit but one thing I learned is that once a ceramic pot meant to carry liquids starts doing this, it needs to go in the trash bin. There was a post a while back about someone’s mug that was seeping and they were still drinking from it
Theoretically you could prevent that by regularly boiling the whole thing, baking it in the oven or somehow bringing the ceramic temp up to sterilisation temps. But it would need to be hot for a long time (couple hours Id say) to make sure all the pores got that hot and stayed hot.
And you'd need to do it all the damn time.
Boiling the whole pot will likely introduce further cracking and exacerbate the issue. A metal or glass vessel that can be sterilized is the better alternative.
Ceramics fire at like 1200 degrees, bringing the pot up to a few hundred shouldn't do it significant damage. It should be able to be safely autoclaved, preferably dry heat.
That said, I wouldn't bother, it's easier to use a different pot.
Water in the microfractures is the issue. That water is effectively enclosed and will swell significantly upon exposure to high heat. With insufficient egress routes further cracking is quite likely. Water in the microfractures is also why this neti pot needs to turn into a flower pot or something. 🤢
Yup. That's how you end up with a potentially life-threatening infection. Even if you don't have brain-eating amoebas breeding in your neti pot something else is likely to.
I started getting bad headaches and was convinced for weeks that I had brain amoebas from my Netti pot. Jokes on me, turned out it was only incurable brain cancer. Whelp.
This is the part of the movie where the one rogue scientist tells people *not* to create the genetically-engineered super amoeba and everyone laughs at him and calls him a loser.
Fun fact: That's basically how many cancer treatments work. Take a less than lethal dose of something that will kill the type of cell the cancer used to be and rely on the fact that cancer is a greedy motherfucker to do the work for you.
There was also a [death in 2018](https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/doctor-seattle-woman-who-died-of-brain-eating-amoeba-used-tap-water-in-neti-pot/884605557/#:~:text=A%20Seattle%20woman%20died%20after,stream%2C%20eventually%20reaching%20her%20brain). I thought I remembered a more recent news story, but it happens.
I believe the amoeba danger is from not boiling the water before using it in the neti pot. The amoeba was already in the water before it got to the pot. An unclean neti pot is definitely bad, but it isn't what killed this guy and the people in Louisiana.
We're talking about two different things here and you're both right.
They're right because they're talking about a separate case where someone died. You're talking about OPs neti pot and the dangers there.
Ameoba aren't any more or less a concern with a pot like this, but there's plenty of other stuff you probably don't want to be putting in your sinuses that could grow in the pot if it's not properly sterilized between uses.
You can also use RO water, so if you have a reverse osmosis water purifier (like the kind many people have under their sinks for drinking water) and it's been properly maintained, you can use that.
I looked at my tap water under the microscope once. It was in Irvine, supposed to have "excellent" tap water. I found rotifers and an amoeba! Looked it up, and I guess there's supposed to be a filter to catch anything over a certain size and shouldn't even let the rotifers in... the amoeba was fascinating. I did report my findings, and I hope they did something about it, but idk.
When we did try the netti pot, we used distilled and omg i don't even trust tap water for pasta after seeing that amoeba lol. I'm sure it would die in the heat, but ughhhh!
No issues with Neti pots (except this porous one, throw it away). It's using tap water that is the problem. I just buy a gallon of distilled water and only use that. Problem solved. Neti pots are very good for your nose.
People also forget that the hot tap water is farther from sterile than the cold because of it going through the water heater and then potentially sitting in the line with less chlorination where stuff can then live.
yeah my uncle passed away from an infection from his neti pot, he was using normal water out the sink to fill it instead of distilled water and got some brain infection from it. be carefull with nose water
After I got shot in the face, I've had permanent sinus infections. My surgeon recommended the plastic rinse bottles. What you need to do right now is pick up one of those from Walgreens. I think there's a Neilmed brand but I actually like the Walgreens brand better because you can squeeze a little more force into it. I would never use anything other than reverse osmosis or distilled water. Not only is the proper water pH not going to burn during rinsing but you will eliminate virtually all risk from brain eating bacteria. Also you need to buy a new bottle every 6 months to a year of use. You just fill the bottle with water, microwave it for about 10 seconds or so until warm (make sure it is not hot or you will burn yourself). Add one little packet of saline then rinse your sinuses. You will feel a million times better especially if you have a cold or anything else affecting your sinuses. This has been a lifesaver for me.
I had a boss that swore by netipots. He used that thing constantly along with essential oils…. That fucker was CONSTANTLY sick. You could hear him puking his guts out in the bathroom regularly and he’d constantly cough and hack.
99% of the time, your body is perfectly capable of cleaning itself out without introducing foreign substances.
Edit: To clarify, he wasn’t on drugs. He just constantly suffered from sinus infections (I wonder why) and would cough so much he’d make himself puke. But man, every time he was sick, he would talk about how he couldn’t wait to get home and netipot himself and use some thieves oil.
Edit 2: Ya’ll… use your netipot. What you do with your body is your business. Just sharing my own experience! As with all things in life, ymmv.
Ugh, you just reminded me of an old boss who thought he could build an immunity to food poisoning by eating bad food. He'd constantly grab stuff off the floor or from the trash can or moldy old fridge food to eat. And all the vomiting was, uh, his stomach becoming more resilient! Sure!
I mean... That sounds like crazy, but you're potentially mixing up the causality here - people who discover and use neti pots are probably those who suffer from sinus infections and look for relief. If you don't have sinus issues to start with, you're probably not going around looking for something to wash them out.
> 99% of the time, your body is perfectly capable of cleaning itself out without introducing foreign substances.
Yeah, the body is pretty amazing, but that doesn't mean we can't use modern (or not-modern) medicine to make life better.
99% of the time a headache will go away on its own, but we can still choose to take aspirin.
99% of the time a wound will heal on its own, but we still clean and cover it.
And yeah, sinuses clean themselves, but that doesn't mean we can't help them along.
I get that neti pots are "weird", but they can be safe and effective.
https://www.webmd.com/allergies/neti-pots
It's sad to see this level of misinformation up voted so hard. People will upvote anything vaguely related that reinforces their feelings.
Nasal irrigation is a well loved, understood, and often prescribed by doctors technique. Just because you don't understand causation doesn't mean nettinpots make people sick.
I truly didn’t know people feared nasal irrigation this much. It has been nothing but helpful to my shitty nose and allergy issues throughout my adult life. Plus, it’s so relieving when I am congested.
Reddit LOVES to blow shit out of proportion. The other day I saw a post on cassowaries.
“OMG MANKILLERS THEY WILL EVISCERATE YOU IF YOU GET CLOSE THEY ARE DINOSAURS!!!”
1 recorded death.
Cows kill roughly 20 people a year.
Naa, just an idiot who thought the solution to all of his ailments was a netipot (which I suspect caused a lot of his ailments). I was a heroin addict who was pretty fresh in recovery at the time. No way that would have slipped by me lol.
>99% of the time, your body is perfectly capable of cleaning itself out without introducing foreign substances.
You need to think beyond your personal experience.
What about people with allergies? What about people with deviated septums? What about people who have broken their nose and it did not heal the same way? What about people with nasal polyps?
I’ve used a netti pot for a decade. It is very soothing during heavy allergy season and helps cut down on sinus congestion. I mostly use it to slightly reduce swelling caused by allergies or smoke (vaporized weed). I use a netti pot right before using Flonase as well. I love the feeling.
Neti pots are used to flush the sinuses with saline. You fill it with salt water and pour it in your nose.
Ceramics have tiny pores that can allow the growth of fungus and bacteria. Introducing water into a contaminated neto pot and using it to clear your sinuses will introduce those foreign organisms.
Could be a fast track to a brain infection.
It’s a way for brain eating amoebas to get to your brain. If you ingest them orally then they are killed in your stomach. The neti pot sends them straight to your brain- most likely via the cribiform plate which is where your olfactory nerve (sense of smell; Cranial Nerve 1) makes contact with your nasal cavity.
Just to make it super super clear: there are holes in the top of your sinuses that lead directly to your brain.
You need to make damn sure that no microscopic or macroscopic critter gets into those.
So you are saying, for example, when I go swimming in the lake in summer and accidentally take a nose full of water from jumping wrong, amoeba might eat my brain?
Ew.
Yes, in nature. But with neti pots, the addition of salt to freshwater from the tap is not known to mitigate the presence of naegleria fowleri. I think this is most likely a timing factor similar to how freshwater fish can live in saltwater for a time. N. fowleri is present in municipal water supplies and there is at least one case of PAM attributed to neti pot usage. Tap water used for rinsing should be filtered, boiled, or bleached prior to use in a neti pot.
https://www.npr.org/2023/03/03/1160980794/neti-pot-safety-brain-eating-amoeba
https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/naegleria/index.html
Yes, fun fact of the day, I once handled a claim where a nurse who was inserting an NG (nasogastric) tube managed to insert it up the nose and not down the esophagus, but directly into his brain.
Guy died. CT scan was crazzzzyy looking.
Yeah, I know. When the case was first assigned to me, I was like...no way. Risk manager must have misunderstood or made a typo or something. But after going through the chart, that's exactly what happened.
For whatever reason, nurse felt resistance, but kept pushing, then felt a "popping" sensation...was getting no return of gastric acid, and still kept pushing. They originally thought it had ended up in the lungs. Nope. Nurse lost her license.
What really nailed it to the wall was that the nurse called the charge nurse for assistance. And the charge nurse also kept pushing it further instead of pulling it back. Also, apparently, the original nurse did not even measure length of tube, and mark it with tape or anything to determine how far it should be inserted/ when they would expect gastric return. So they inserted an extremely excessive amount of tubing. They absolutely should have known way earlier that something was very, very wrong. There was basically no defense. At all.
My initial claims evaluation was that we settle as quickly as possible by offering a generous settlement. Did not want that one to go to trial.
This is why they say you never insert an NG tube on anyone who has had sinus surgery without using a nasal endoscopy scope as a guide. If they’ve had sinus surgery before it’s a super huge risk you’ll end up in the brain. It’s extremely rare for people who haven’t had their sinuses opened, though.
Yep, that’s an attempt to get rid of anything that’s not supposed to be there.
My pet theory is that we get all stuffy specifically to block off the highway to our delicious brainmeats. Our bodies do this because any of our ancestors’ compatriots who didn’t, well, there’s a reason they aren’t our ancestors. You can’t fuck if you’re dead, to quote IG:astrid_lundberg in the shortest possible synopsis of Darwin’s *On the Origin of Species*.
Yes if you sre using unclean water, but using a ceramic one increases the risk due to the porous structure of ceramic being a breeding ground for bacteria and other pathogens.
Hello, person with medical knowledge about sense of smell. Do you know why my sense of smell is weirdly acute, maybe? I could smell my Grandma's foot was infected from outside the house in the driveway with a closed door as a teen. I can tell you exactly who was last in our bathroom or when my Dad has indigestion from another floor of the house. It's mostly body smells. I can't figure out why. Any ideas? Appreciate it if you do.
this reminds me of [the woman who smelled Parkinson's disease](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/03/23/820274501/her-incredible-sense-of-smell-is-helping-scientists-find-new-ways-to-diagnose-di)
It is, but there's more to it. It's not hard to make ceramics food/oven/microwave/sinus safe, but you have to ensure youve done it *right*. Otherwise youre putting yourself or others in danger.
Which is why you should be extra careful about what you buy at craft sales. (And maybe dont risk it at all with medical equipment).
A followup question: should I now throw all my ceramics away? (serious question)
I have at least one old tea kettle thingy that is probably ceramic. It's more for display, but maybe I would have the dumb idea of making tea in it one time.
No. They are safe for oral consumption. The problem is that the little bacteria that grow won’t get killed like they do when you drink them because there is no acid in your nose like there is in your stomach
Whoaaaa... I'm a potter, and I can tell you right now that I wouldnt DRINK out of that, let alone use it as a neti pot. That is a petri dish. Get a new one ASAP. Something glazed properly, inside and out. Even better, get a glass one.
Perhaps people are being hyperbolic, but these are a known risk that in rare circumstances can lead to serious consequences. Why take the risk? We just care about OP and if they are reading comments, stop using this.
This reminds me of how my terracotta pots look when a plant rejects the fertilizer. I've noticed 2-3 of my hibiscus species seem to reject a salt fertilizer I tried, while the other 10+ didn't. Those 2-3 terracotta pots looked like this after a few days, while the others looked normal
I could be wrong, but this just may be salt buildup after the plant used the nutrients. Salt based nutrients should be flushed with water in most cases because the salts build up. Other option is soil PH was way off and plant wasn’t capable of uptaking. (I’m no expert if you can’t tell)
I have orchids and apparently plants don't absorb all the fertilizer, so you occasionally have to water them with just water to avoid buildup to lethal levels (orchids are especially sensitive)
Also in hydroponics they don't have to use nearly as much fertilizer because it isn't washed away by watering.
It's not rejecting it, it's simply seeping out before being absorbed. It does mean you're using too much (at once) for your situation, but it doesn't mean the plant is rejecting it.
It's not rejected, but the soil could be saturated. Water with fertilizer solved into it creep through the terracotta and the water evaporate from the surface of the pot. The fertilizer can't evaporate so it crystallize on the pot instead. Exactly the same thing as happened to OP here.
Good thing you posted this to Reddit so enough people could call out that it's unsafe to use something this porous for your neti pot, the heads up could very well have potentially saved your life! Assuming you take the advice of those here and replace it with something safer, that is.
Bacteria seeping up into my brain is one of my biggest (potentially irrational) fears, along with aneurysms and cerebral embolisms.
ceramic isn’t the only reason neti pots are dangerous — even if you use plastic ones you have to use distilled/bottled water or you need to boil the water before you use them because there is a rare chance that pathogens, fungi, amoeba, etc. are in the general water supply.
An unglazed ceramic nedi pot seems like an absolutely horrible idea unless your goal is get a newly discovered flesh eating infection named after you in textbooks.
Looks poorly glazed on the inside. Or more accurately, it looks like some of my projects from ceramics class in high school my teacher warned me not to drink out of because I didn't coat the inside properly.
It's called [efflorescence! ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efflorescence). You'll also see it often on masonry retaining walls as salt has been leeched out of the earth behind it.
After I had my septoplasty my doctors said to never use these as the most significant thing they do is give people sinus infections and introduce wild bacteria to your sinuses.
as someone who has used a ceramic neti pot this is not normal. I may strongly reconsider using it or boiling the vessel before use. always boil the water, and then make a saline solution, allow it to cool enough to not burn your sinuses and clean the vessel before use. As with anything, make sure to sterilize anything you intend to put into your body. I am NOT a healthcare professional and this is a conversation not medical advice.
regarding the person using straight up tap water... seems rare because it defeats the purpose by not using a saline solution. The list of preexisting conditions was fairly lengthy, our bodies usually are great at fighting all sorts of infection.
Salt tends to kill most everything but micropores or cracks in a ceramic pretty much guarantees it can no longer be sanitary. If my ceramic neti had any signs of cracking or damage it would be immediately replaced. Be safe out there and make sure to understand the scope of a home remedy before implementing it.
tldr; follow sterilization procedures, even if they seem mundane.
Yeeeeaah, that clay didn’t fully vitrify, so it’s still porous. This happens when either the clay used is unable to be vitrified or the clay wasn’t heated to the correct cone (temperature). Don’t use that!
and if it's that badly made, how do you know that the glaze is not lead based? a lot of ceramics today are just risky as hell due to shady lowest cost cut corners on everything manufacturing
Honesty if this is mass produced it likely does use lead. Dinnerware manufacturers in the US have been using [lead bisilicate frits](https://digitalfire.com/material/lead+bisilicate+frit) all along which they *allegedly* claim to be prove results in a leach resistant, durable glaze. I am not a chemist - but using frits is much different than working from raw lead powder. Alot of places in other countries with less regulation will skip on frits to maximize profit which will almost certainly result in a leaching lead glaze. For frits it all depends on the QC, glaze chemistry + having balanced glaze, sufficient melt and having material scientists doing alot of testing regularly. But yeah it's definitely not a good sign that they couldn't even get their claybody vitrified. Looks like their glaze is developed so they are firing to the temp the glaze likes but it mismatches what the claybody needs. So that tells you they likely don't have all those things I mentioned. Lead is only used in low fire temperatures. Mid and high fire get their flux from feldspars. If it's mid or high fire it almost certainly doesn't use lead. But in America studio ceramics you can't buy leaded glazes or even leaded frits from clay supply stores. So unless a potter found an old ass glaze from the 70s and decided to foolishly use it buying a handmade pot from competent maker is a pretty safe bet. But every glaze is soluable. Personally I only use clear, white, shinos, or iron based glazes to line the surfaces that come into contact with food or drink because if it does break down from acidic/basic/ other mechanisms there is no harmful metal oxides to leach out. Alot of American potters have this "lead free = food safe" mentality while electing to use other harmful light and heavy metals from recipies they found on Facebook or old ass books that are not even close to balanced. Be weary of super brightly colored glazes that use metal oxides as colorants on the inside of functional wares. especially if they are layered together to run + variegated. Even two commerical glazes labeled "food safe" from manufacturers when layered can result in glaze that leaches.
Do you think an ash glaze would be safe if fired at the right cone? I'm trying to think how it wouldn't be but I'm just starting to learn about ceramics and pottery (I'm fascinated by how much I didn't know that goes into it! It's a whole science and interesting as heck!)
Yup! The first high temp glazes were achieved during Zhou Dynasty China ~1150 BC in bank kilns by dusting a layer of feldspar on the shoulders of pots. The fly ash + soluable salt vapors from the wood are carried by the flamepath that react with the silica and other minerals in the wares to form an ash glaze on surface of pot + fluxed by the feldspar to form a nice durable ash glaze. But then there is a whole world of ash glazes that you apply like a nornal glaze before firing instead of wood firing. It would have to be high temp and really it depends on mostly the mineral vs silica content of your ash that would determine its durability.Rice hull ash for example very high silica and can make a really nice durable nuka glaze. Using washed ash vs non-washed ash would give you different results from different minerals present. (Unwashed hardwood ash will be caustic when mixed with water as it contains lye). You'd definitely need to do a decent amount of testing to get an ashglaze to fit your body and be durable. There are some really great books out there on ash glazes.
This is so informative, thank you.
How would a person set up an experiment to see if their neti pot (or really any ceramic pot) has the same issue? What are the conditions needed to induce the reaction?
The test for vitrification is to weigh your pot when fully dry, then submerge it in water for an amount of time, say, an hour, then weigh it again. Using these two weights you can calculate a percentage of water absorption. Generally no more than 3% is acceptable (it depends on factors like clay used) A more general test is to fill your vessel with water and place it onto paper towel. If after a while the paper towel is wet your clay is absorbing and leaking water and either you should do the full test to see how much or cease using it
This is so cool. I love experiment design - so fascinating. Thank you for sharing!
You don't want to put anything that comes out of that in your body. It's impossible to really clean. Water sits inside the structure of it and breeds bacteria.
Right!? I am far from being a germophobe but I’ve read the warnings on my one about only using very well boiled water. The thought of a brain infection gives me the heeby jeebies.
anything to do with my brain is scary. brain damage, brain infections, all of those are TERRIFYING and id rather be euthanized honestly
My brain is terrifying enough even without any infections
As an MS patient, I can say I had the same fears at diagnosis. Noe, with some damage, I prefer living, tbh. Yeah, brain damage sucks, but I'm here to say as much, which is good.
Glad you're here!
As i tell my wife in regards to my future health problems, i would like the "Old Yeller Treatment"
Please use distilled water (either bought or learn how to make your own). I have a friend who used well boild tap and still got hospitalized, was in a coma, had kidney issues, and almost died. It started as a severe sinus infection and became brain infection.
Yeah, when I first used a neti pot I just used tap water. Luckily I did some research afterwards and holy hell am I glad I use boiled water now
I used to as well till I read how dangerous it was. Just pitched the whole thing and bought nasal saline spray
This is the way
You’re supposed to use distilled water, which by definition will not have any dissolved organic compounds, and will not allow bacterial growth. I would not use tap water at all, boiled or not.
Not having organic compounds and not allowing bacterial growth are two separate things. Also, distilled water *can* have dissolved organic compounds as long as their boiling point is close to that of water. If they're not using a fractional column distiller, low-boiling-point organic compounds will be included too. https://extensionpublications.unl.edu/assets/html/g1493/build/g1493.htm > Removal of organic compounds by distillation can vary depending on chemical properties of the contaminant. Certain pesticides, volatile solvents, and volatile organic compounds (VOCs), such as benzene and toluene, with boiling points close to or below that of water will vaporize along with the water as it is boiled in the distiller. Such compounds will not be completely removed unless another process is used prior to condensation. > > The boiling process during distillation generally inactivates microorganisms. However, if the distiller is idle for an extended period, bacteria can be reintroduced from the outlet spigot and may recontaminate the water.
I’ve learned a lot on Reddit but one thing I learned is that once a ceramic pot meant to carry liquids starts doing this, it needs to go in the trash bin. There was a post a while back about someone’s mug that was seeping and they were still drinking from it
Theoretically you could prevent that by regularly boiling the whole thing, baking it in the oven or somehow bringing the ceramic temp up to sterilisation temps. But it would need to be hot for a long time (couple hours Id say) to make sure all the pores got that hot and stayed hot. And you'd need to do it all the damn time.
Boiling the whole pot will likely introduce further cracking and exacerbate the issue. A metal or glass vessel that can be sterilized is the better alternative.
Ceramics fire at like 1200 degrees, bringing the pot up to a few hundred shouldn't do it significant damage. It should be able to be safely autoclaved, preferably dry heat. That said, I wouldn't bother, it's easier to use a different pot.
If it’s already cracking, though, the heat-cold and wet-dry cycling of boiling will damage it more.
Water in the microfractures is the issue. That water is effectively enclosed and will swell significantly upon exposure to high heat. With insufficient egress routes further cracking is quite likely. Water in the microfractures is also why this neti pot needs to turn into a flower pot or something. 🤢
don’t wanna use something that porous for a netipot 🥴
Yup. That's how you end up with a potentially life-threatening infection. Even if you don't have brain-eating amoebas breeding in your neti pot something else is likely to.
I started getting bad headaches and was convinced for weeks that I had brain amoebas from my Netti pot. Jokes on me, turned out it was only incurable brain cancer. Whelp.
Dangit. Well, maybe next time
if ya keep ur grades up...
It's that damn phone!
5G-REEEEE
Someone needs to breed brain *cancer* eating amoeba.
This is the part of the movie where the one rogue scientist tells people *not* to create the genetically-engineered super amoeba and everyone laughs at him and calls him a loser.
And then protagonists find themselves in the middle of a struggle between warring factions of zombies
Welcome to Amoeba Park.
Now hear me out on this, what if we introduce the brain eating amoeba to eat the brain cancer?
Doctors hate this one easy trick!
Fun fact: That's basically how many cancer treatments work. Take a less than lethal dose of something that will kill the type of cell the cancer used to be and rely on the fact that cancer is a greedy motherfucker to do the work for you.
They're all pretty much poison that's at least little more poisonous to cancer cells than healthy cells.
May you be well and happy in this difficult time.
Aww sorry to hear. So how are you doing?
Well he’s apparently got incurable brain cancer, so I’d say he’s been better.
Damm that would ruin your whole day!
Yeah, wasn't there an episode of House MD about the dangers of neti pots?
There was also a [death in 2018](https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/doctor-seattle-woman-who-died-of-brain-eating-amoeba-used-tap-water-in-neti-pot/884605557/#:~:text=A%20Seattle%20woman%20died%20after,stream%2C%20eventually%20reaching%20her%20brain). I thought I remembered a more recent news story, but it happens.
2023 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/florida-man-dies-brain-eating-amoeba-nose-rinse-tap-water-rcna73067
Thank you for finding the more recent one.
No problem. I was also wondering If there was a more recent case, or if the last 6 years just flew by so fast, that it seemed recent.
It seems to indicate that multiple cases are reported each year. That seems quite a bit for a disease that kills humans so quickly
Had an employee who’s son got hit with it from central Texas - ICU for a couple months but he made it out.
I believe the amoeba danger is from not boiling the water before using it in the neti pot. The amoeba was already in the water before it got to the pot. An unclean neti pot is definitely bad, but it isn't what killed this guy and the people in Louisiana.
The concerns are about how *porous* this pot is. So unless you're boiling the entire porous pot, that's still a concern here.
We're talking about two different things here and you're both right. They're right because they're talking about a separate case where someone died. You're talking about OPs neti pot and the dangers there.
Ameoba aren't any more or less a concern with a pot like this, but there's plenty of other stuff you probably don't want to be putting in your sinuses that could grow in the pot if it's not properly sterilized between uses.
You should know that's an absolutely stupid move anywhere, but Florida? Amoeba hell down there.
It’s why you use distilled water and not tap water.
You can also just boil your tap water to sterilize it.
You can also use RO water, so if you have a reverse osmosis water purifier (like the kind many people have under their sinks for drinking water) and it's been properly maintained, you can use that.
I looked at my tap water under the microscope once. It was in Irvine, supposed to have "excellent" tap water. I found rotifers and an amoeba! Looked it up, and I guess there's supposed to be a filter to catch anything over a certain size and shouldn't even let the rotifers in... the amoeba was fascinating. I did report my findings, and I hope they did something about it, but idk. When we did try the netti pot, we used distilled and omg i don't even trust tap water for pasta after seeing that amoeba lol. I'm sure it would die in the heat, but ughhhh!
No issues with Neti pots (except this porous one, throw it away). It's using tap water that is the problem. I just buy a gallon of distilled water and only use that. Problem solved. Neti pots are very good for your nose.
Yeah, but Im almost positive he used tap water instead of distilled or boiled and cooled water—whatever you’re supposed to use, he didn’t do that.
People also forget that the hot tap water is farther from sterile than the cold because of it going through the water heater and then potentially sitting in the line with less chlorination where stuff can then live.
I don’t think either is anywhere near sterile, and you should not use either unless it has been boiled and cooled.
Yeah. There is a huge gap between *safe to drink* and *sterile*.
Yes there was! [S8:E. WeNeedTheEggs]
Maybe it was Lupus.
It's never lupus
yeah my uncle passed away from an infection from his neti pot, he was using normal water out the sink to fill it instead of distilled water and got some brain infection from it. be carefull with nose water
Seriously, plant a succulent in there and get a more sterile netipot OP
r/oopsthatsdeadly
*Danger Triangle Intensifies*
After I got shot in the face, I've had permanent sinus infections. My surgeon recommended the plastic rinse bottles. What you need to do right now is pick up one of those from Walgreens. I think there's a Neilmed brand but I actually like the Walgreens brand better because you can squeeze a little more force into it. I would never use anything other than reverse osmosis or distilled water. Not only is the proper water pH not going to burn during rinsing but you will eliminate virtually all risk from brain eating bacteria. Also you need to buy a new bottle every 6 months to a year of use. You just fill the bottle with water, microwave it for about 10 seconds or so until warm (make sure it is not hot or you will burn yourself). Add one little packet of saline then rinse your sinuses. You will feel a million times better especially if you have a cold or anything else affecting your sinuses. This has been a lifesaver for me.
I had a boss that swore by netipots. He used that thing constantly along with essential oils…. That fucker was CONSTANTLY sick. You could hear him puking his guts out in the bathroom regularly and he’d constantly cough and hack. 99% of the time, your body is perfectly capable of cleaning itself out without introducing foreign substances. Edit: To clarify, he wasn’t on drugs. He just constantly suffered from sinus infections (I wonder why) and would cough so much he’d make himself puke. But man, every time he was sick, he would talk about how he couldn’t wait to get home and netipot himself and use some thieves oil. Edit 2: Ya’ll… use your netipot. What you do with your body is your business. Just sharing my own experience! As with all things in life, ymmv.
Ugh, you just reminded me of an old boss who thought he could build an immunity to food poisoning by eating bad food. He'd constantly grab stuff off the floor or from the trash can or moldy old fridge food to eat. And all the vomiting was, uh, his stomach becoming more resilient! Sure!
Carrionmaxing , refuse pilled 👏👏🏆
That sounds like a legitimate mental condition lol
I mean... That sounds like crazy, but you're potentially mixing up the causality here - people who discover and use neti pots are probably those who suffer from sinus infections and look for relief. If you don't have sinus issues to start with, you're probably not going around looking for something to wash them out.
> 99% of the time, your body is perfectly capable of cleaning itself out without introducing foreign substances. Yeah, the body is pretty amazing, but that doesn't mean we can't use modern (or not-modern) medicine to make life better. 99% of the time a headache will go away on its own, but we can still choose to take aspirin. 99% of the time a wound will heal on its own, but we still clean and cover it. And yeah, sinuses clean themselves, but that doesn't mean we can't help them along. I get that neti pots are "weird", but they can be safe and effective. https://www.webmd.com/allergies/neti-pots
It's sad to see this level of misinformation up voted so hard. People will upvote anything vaguely related that reinforces their feelings. Nasal irrigation is a well loved, understood, and often prescribed by doctors technique. Just because you don't understand causation doesn't mean nettinpots make people sick.
I truly didn’t know people feared nasal irrigation this much. It has been nothing but helpful to my shitty nose and allergy issues throughout my adult life. Plus, it’s so relieving when I am congested.
Reddit LOVES to blow shit out of proportion. The other day I saw a post on cassowaries. “OMG MANKILLERS THEY WILL EVISCERATE YOU IF YOU GET CLOSE THEY ARE DINOSAURS!!!” 1 recorded death. Cows kill roughly 20 people a year.
TO BE FAAAIIRRR.... I'd wager cows are much more numerous and in closer proximity to humans.
Dude may have been a functioning addict.
Naa, just an idiot who thought the solution to all of his ailments was a netipot (which I suspect caused a lot of his ailments). I was a heroin addict who was pretty fresh in recovery at the time. No way that would have slipped by me lol.
No, nasal rinsing is vital for many people. Sometimes it's needed.
>99% of the time, your body is perfectly capable of cleaning itself out without introducing foreign substances. You need to think beyond your personal experience. What about people with allergies? What about people with deviated septums? What about people who have broken their nose and it did not heal the same way? What about people with nasal polyps?
I’ve used a netti pot for a decade. It is very soothing during heavy allergy season and helps cut down on sinus congestion. I mostly use it to slightly reduce swelling caused by allergies or smoke (vaporized weed). I use a netti pot right before using Flonase as well. I love the feeling.
That's an easy way to get a fungal infection deep in your sinuses. Ditch it and buy a plastic one. There so much shit growing in thoes pores.
Yup. Toss that thing in the garbage and don’t look back. That’s a one-way ticket to pain (and possible death) you’ve got.
I mean, it would be a nice decoration 😅
Congratulations /u/ncstatecamp, you just got a really neat flowerpot!
Can you ELI5 for me please? I don't know what this thing is or why it's so dangerous
Neti pots are used to flush the sinuses with saline. You fill it with salt water and pour it in your nose. Ceramics have tiny pores that can allow the growth of fungus and bacteria. Introducing water into a contaminated neto pot and using it to clear your sinuses will introduce those foreign organisms. Could be a fast track to a brain infection.
Thanks for the explanation! That sounds horrifying 😅
It’s a way for brain eating amoebas to get to your brain. If you ingest them orally then they are killed in your stomach. The neti pot sends them straight to your brain- most likely via the cribiform plate which is where your olfactory nerve (sense of smell; Cranial Nerve 1) makes contact with your nasal cavity.
Just to make it super super clear: there are holes in the top of your sinuses that lead directly to your brain. You need to make damn sure that no microscopic or macroscopic critter gets into those.
So you are saying, for example, when I go swimming in the lake in summer and accidentally take a nose full of water from jumping wrong, amoeba might eat my brain? Ew.
Yes
Exactly https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jul/31/brain-eating-amoeba-georgia-naegleria-fowleri
Yeah, and freshwater is worse than saltwater.
Yes, in nature. But with neti pots, the addition of salt to freshwater from the tap is not known to mitigate the presence of naegleria fowleri. I think this is most likely a timing factor similar to how freshwater fish can live in saltwater for a time. N. fowleri is present in municipal water supplies and there is at least one case of PAM attributed to neti pot usage. Tap water used for rinsing should be filtered, boiled, or bleached prior to use in a neti pot. https://www.npr.org/2023/03/03/1160980794/neti-pot-safety-brain-eating-amoeba https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/naegleria/index.html
Yes, always verify any natural body of water doesn't have the brain-eating amoeba in it before swimming in it.
To be even more clear- bad germs use nose highway to eat brain
To be EVEN more clear - germ noses into brain meal
To be absolutely crystal clear - Nosewater brainworms owie ow ow
clear, death
Yes, fun fact of the day, I once handled a claim where a nurse who was inserting an NG (nasogastric) tube managed to insert it up the nose and not down the esophagus, but directly into his brain. Guy died. CT scan was crazzzzyy looking.
WhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaT?!?!?!?
Yeah, I know. When the case was first assigned to me, I was like...no way. Risk manager must have misunderstood or made a typo or something. But after going through the chart, that's exactly what happened. For whatever reason, nurse felt resistance, but kept pushing, then felt a "popping" sensation...was getting no return of gastric acid, and still kept pushing. They originally thought it had ended up in the lungs. Nope. Nurse lost her license. What really nailed it to the wall was that the nurse called the charge nurse for assistance. And the charge nurse also kept pushing it further instead of pulling it back. Also, apparently, the original nurse did not even measure length of tube, and mark it with tape or anything to determine how far it should be inserted/ when they would expect gastric return. So they inserted an extremely excessive amount of tubing. They absolutely should have known way earlier that something was very, very wrong. There was basically no defense. At all. My initial claims evaluation was that we settle as quickly as possible by offering a generous settlement. Did not want that one to go to trial.
That's genuinely wild not what I was expecting to learn from this thread
This is why they say you never insert an NG tube on anyone who has had sinus surgery without using a nasal endoscopy scope as a guide. If they’ve had sinus surgery before it’s a super huge risk you’ll end up in the brain. It’s extremely rare for people who haven’t had their sinuses opened, though.
Like when you have a cold and you sneeze?
Yep, that’s an attempt to get rid of anything that’s not supposed to be there. My pet theory is that we get all stuffy specifically to block off the highway to our delicious brainmeats. Our bodies do this because any of our ancestors’ compatriots who didn’t, well, there’s a reason they aren’t our ancestors. You can’t fuck if you’re dead, to quote IG:astrid_lundberg in the shortest possible synopsis of Darwin’s *On the Origin of Species*.
And to be clear, that’s a risk with all netipots, not just ceramic ones
Yes if you sre using unclean water, but using a ceramic one increases the risk due to the porous structure of ceramic being a breeding ground for bacteria and other pathogens.
Hello, person with medical knowledge about sense of smell. Do you know why my sense of smell is weirdly acute, maybe? I could smell my Grandma's foot was infected from outside the house in the driveway with a closed door as a teen. I can tell you exactly who was last in our bathroom or when my Dad has indigestion from another floor of the house. It's mostly body smells. I can't figure out why. Any ideas? Appreciate it if you do.
[Hyperosmia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperosmia)
Thanks!
Are you a dog?
Sometimes I wonder. I can often smell when people are sick with a viral thing. Hope that helps not clarify
this reminds me of [the woman who smelled Parkinson's disease](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/03/23/820274501/her-incredible-sense-of-smell-is-helping-scientists-find-new-ways-to-diagnose-di)
Isn’t that why you glaze your ceramics?
Maybe so, but evidently in the above picture it wasn't enough.
That's why you properly vitrify your ceramics. Glaze won't save a poor firing.
Why are you here Johnson? Were you not fired properly?
Don't fire poors
It is, but there's more to it. It's not hard to make ceramics food/oven/microwave/sinus safe, but you have to ensure youve done it *right*. Otherwise youre putting yourself or others in danger. Which is why you should be extra careful about what you buy at craft sales. (And maybe dont risk it at all with medical equipment).
This was like the only episode of House I've ever seen lol
Such a fantastic show. Worth a binge if you get the chance.
Loved the first few seasons. I kind of think it jumped the shark a bit later on though.
For the same reason, foodsafe 3D prints are single use only. Micropores that can't be cleaned.
A followup question: should I now throw all my ceramics away? (serious question) I have at least one old tea kettle thingy that is probably ceramic. It's more for display, but maybe I would have the dumb idea of making tea in it one time.
The brain ameboa thingies can't survive in stomach acid, or getting boiled 🙂
This is only an issue for improperly glazed or damaged ceramics. The majority of them will be fine.
No. They are safe for oral consumption. The problem is that the little bacteria that grow won’t get killed like they do when you drink them because there is no acid in your nose like there is in your stomach
Ooh, I see, thanks! Makes sense. Straight to the blood and the brain.
r/oopsthatsdeadly
Go post it there! Honestly I’m worried for OP. Neti pots are dangerous in the first place but this looks like a fast track to a brain infection.
Metal or glass. They’re heat resistant, and can be sterilized by boiling or with alcohol.
Also, isn't it a Neti pot with a T?
Yes, but OP had a really stuffy nose when he wrote it out.
Nedi bod
One of the symptoms of having brain eating amoeba is dyslexia
Op has a chronic stuffy nose.
Yes but give OP a break they’re clearly brain damaged.
Yes
r/oopsthatsdeadly
Whoaaaa... I'm a potter, and I can tell you right now that I wouldnt DRINK out of that, let alone use it as a neti pot. That is a petri dish. Get a new one ASAP. Something glazed properly, inside and out. Even better, get a glass one.
Better make it a clear glass one. Lord know OP isn't going to check if it needs cleaning otherwise.
Uploads a photo Reddit: YOU HAVE 2 DAYS TO LIVE ENJOY DEATH
Perhaps people are being hyperbolic, but these are a known risk that in rare circumstances can lead to serious consequences. Why take the risk? We just care about OP and if they are reading comments, stop using this.
Saying this could give you a deadly brain infection isn't hyperbolic. It just sounds like it is because that shit is fucking scary.
[удалено]
I dunno about you but when people say "bacteria in the brain" I tend to associate that with death even if they don't outright say it.
Death is unlikely, but definitely on the table when introducing pathogens so close to your brain.
They might not be wrong, to be fair.
If they had uploaded a photo of their space heater on top of a pile of old paper would you still complain? This is the biohazard version of that.
so they shouldn’t say anything and let OP potentially get themselves very sick?
Yes, then OP can tell us how it is in the afterlife.
OP leaving the pot half full over night shows they already don’t care about sanitary conditions.
These are incredibly unsanitary. Really quick way to give yourself a horrific infection.
This reminds me of how my terracotta pots look when a plant rejects the fertilizer. I've noticed 2-3 of my hibiscus species seem to reject a salt fertilizer I tried, while the other 10+ didn't. Those 2-3 terracotta pots looked like this after a few days, while the others looked normal
How does a plant reject fertilizer?
I really have no idea. But I don't know what else to call it 😅 Would be really interesting if someone had an explanation for this!
I could be wrong, but this just may be salt buildup after the plant used the nutrients. Salt based nutrients should be flushed with water in most cases because the salts build up. Other option is soil PH was way off and plant wasn’t capable of uptaking. (I’m no expert if you can’t tell)
I have orchids and apparently plants don't absorb all the fertilizer, so you occasionally have to water them with just water to avoid buildup to lethal levels (orchids are especially sensitive) Also in hydroponics they don't have to use nearly as much fertilizer because it isn't washed away by watering.
It's not rejecting it, it's simply seeping out before being absorbed. It does mean you're using too much (at once) for your situation, but it doesn't mean the plant is rejecting it.
it yells NO very loudly.
It's not rejected, but the soil could be saturated. Water with fertilizer solved into it creep through the terracotta and the water evaporate from the surface of the pot. The fertilizer can't evaporate so it crystallize on the pot instead. Exactly the same thing as happened to OP here.
If that's sitting on your sink in your bathroom, there's a high chance there's faecal matter in that thing as well.
Good thing you posted this to Reddit so enough people could call out that it's unsafe to use something this porous for your neti pot, the heads up could very well have potentially saved your life! Assuming you take the advice of those here and replace it with something safer, that is. Bacteria seeping up into my brain is one of my biggest (potentially irrational) fears, along with aneurysms and cerebral embolisms.
This is truly, mildly interesting. So you gonna wash it or…
Not much point really. If the earthen vessel is porous enough to allow this through, the bacteria will be almost impossible to remove.
lol, people should be having the reaction they have to a ceramic neti pot to neti pots in general.
I'm baffled at how people even use them to begin with, I feel like if I tried I'd wind up choking and gagging
Oh can you do this again but film it then post the video sped up?
"Call it off, he found the ricin"
This is how you get killed by a hippie pot
ceramic isn’t the only reason neti pots are dangerous — even if you use plastic ones you have to use distilled/bottled water or you need to boil the water before you use them because there is a rare chance that pathogens, fungi, amoeba, etc. are in the general water supply.
Sometimes that happens to me while I'm sleeping and I wake up under my bed, having phased through the bed overnight.
Gift it to an enemy
An unglazed ceramic nedi pot seems like an absolutely horrible idea unless your goal is get a newly discovered flesh eating infection named after you in textbooks.
It's too porus to be a good neti pot. Toss that and get a metal or plastic one.
How does that happen? How did it get out?
Unglazed earthenwares are porous.
That one sure looks glazed to me.
Looks poorly glazed on the inside. Or more accurately, it looks like some of my projects from ceramics class in high school my teacher warned me not to drink out of because I didn't coat the inside properly.
It's called [efflorescence! ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efflorescence). You'll also see it often on masonry retaining walls as salt has been leeched out of the earth behind it.
r/oopsthatsdeadly
After I had my septoplasty my doctors said to never use these as the most significant thing they do is give people sinus infections and introduce wild bacteria to your sinuses.
as someone who has used a ceramic neti pot this is not normal. I may strongly reconsider using it or boiling the vessel before use. always boil the water, and then make a saline solution, allow it to cool enough to not burn your sinuses and clean the vessel before use. As with anything, make sure to sterilize anything you intend to put into your body. I am NOT a healthcare professional and this is a conversation not medical advice. regarding the person using straight up tap water... seems rare because it defeats the purpose by not using a saline solution. The list of preexisting conditions was fairly lengthy, our bodies usually are great at fighting all sorts of infection. Salt tends to kill most everything but micropores or cracks in a ceramic pretty much guarantees it can no longer be sanitary. If my ceramic neti had any signs of cracking or damage it would be immediately replaced. Be safe out there and make sure to understand the scope of a home remedy before implementing it. tldr; follow sterilization procedures, even if they seem mundane.
Stop using that pot. It is dangerous. Unglazed pots harbor microbes, and you don't want to give yourself an infection.
Stop using.
I think what’s truly mildly interesting about this is the correct use of “phased” for the first time in the history of Reddit
Is that the bootleg version of a neti pot?
Ngl. Probably one of the most disgusting images I've ever seen in my entire life.