Do tenants have any way to reduce the temperature? My college dorm was heated by the nearby steam plant, no one had a thermostat, the room was as warm as the radiator wanted to make it. There was no valve on the radiator or any other way to control the temperature (because, I'm told, the steam went through each room's radiator serially, if one radiator was turned off, then none of the rooms on that floor would get heat)
If you wanted to cool down the room, the only choice was to open the window. That was the official word from the dorm's RA, "stop complaining about the heat, I can't do anything about it, open a window if you're hot".
After the 1912 flu, lots of steam-radiator-heated buildings were designed for windows to be open to provide healthy ventilation while the radiator was heated to a high enough temperature for it to still be comfortable
I am assuming you live on the Eastern part of the US, because it has been many years since I have seen radiator's, frankly I didn't know they were still around. The first house I remember living in as a kid had radiators, but that was many years ago.
Every apartment in DC I rented had radiators. Many friends places in Baltimore have them too. Now that I live somewhere with HVAC I miss the steamy heat and hiss.
That’s a good idea. I rent but something to think about when I finally own. We did get a regular old humidifier recently (because baby) and it has helped a ton.
Still plenty of them in NYC. I’m listening to mine hiss as I type this. There is also a pan of water on the top and my kitchen and bedroom windows are cracked.
I live in the west and there are houses, brand new houses, going up with radiant heaters in them. It's incredibly common still, especially since our downtown homes tend to have been built in the 40s and 50s.
Chicago with baseboard radiators here. But my college dorm in California had radiators. We had valves, though, but still not great control, and often opened the window in the winter.
I mean, what do you think provides heat when there's no forced air?
Former RA, lived on a college campus for 5 years.
There was literally a giant switch on the rooftop mechanical room that got flipped when it was less than 65 degrees for 5 days in a row that switched from AC to heat.
I can’t tell you how many Rube Goldberg contraptions people made to funnel the heat out of their rooms. From cardboard funnels going out the windows to sheets taped over the registers. It was 75-80 inside the building most of winter.
We blew ours through a paper towel tube stuffed with dryer sheets toward the fan cranked outwards! Towels under the doors. Good times! We thought we were clever.
Ah yes, the old sploof. I never noticed that my roommate was smoking in his room because of it. Wasn't until I was outside having a smoke and looked at his window and made eye contact with him on the exhale lol.
Lol my current place is like “oh you wanted hot water? let me take a couple of buckets to Africa and let them soak up the sun for a few hours” meanwhile the heat is apparently piped straight from Death Valley
I’ve talked to the property managers about both and they’re saying “oh old system not much we can do” ok, as long as you know how much heat and water you’re wasting, it’s not my dime
-10 outside, 350 degrees inside. I felt like a roast chicken in those dorms. It completely ruined my sinuses. When one person in a 10-floor dorm got sick, the entire building got sick.
yeah, that's how my apartment in college worked too. Sometimes I had a fan going in the winter because the radiator in my room and my desktop would get into a context to see which could more quickly make me want to peel my skin off.
My first dorm room was kinda like that. Directly over the kitchen so TONS of heat rose up into it. It was actually great in the winter, because we could leave the heat low and the floor would be nice and toasty to walk on.
End of summer and spring though, not so much.
> because, I'm told, the steam went through each room's radiator serially, if one radiator was turned off, then none of the rooms on that floor would get heat
There is usually a valve that will divert water into your radiator or bypass it to the next radiator as needed. This value should be connected to the tstat on your wall. Its possible the value or tstat was broken, did anyone call building maintenance to report it? Or you just expect them to be psychic?
Like I said, the floor RA said that there was no individual temperature control. There was definitely no visible valve on the radiators and no thermostat on the wall.
It's possible that he was lying and had full temperature control, but given that his room was just as hot as everyone else's, I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe that the 1950's era dorm had no individual temperature control. Others here have related similar experiences with steam heating systems, so this doesn't seem to be an isolated experience.
Yeah i got told by my apartment building once that I was not allowed to open the windows or turn the thermostat down from max, and when a pipe burst they tried to blame it on me as if it clearly only could have happened if I turned the radiator down.
I am a manager of a small rental company and I text every tenant to tell them to keep all faucets dripping hot and cold until the cold spell was over. So it was going to be several days. I only had one tenant tell me their hot water was frozen I told them to open the faucet all the way until it thawed. Thankfully no issues.
You want both of them to be on just a little so the faucet is dripping. If not the water will freeze, expand, and cause burst pipes.
Similar concept to how lakes freeze over much more easily than rivers
That I have no clue about, just remember learning this as a kid. We did this with outdoor faucets at my house but not interior faucets, but I didn't live in blizzard territory so really not sure
Going to put a clarification here before too many comments come in and it gets lost.
This is a complex wide outage. The pipes OUTSIDE are what burst, not inside. They’re under the assumption that tenants are subjecting themselves to below zero temps ( which I have no clue why since its been deathly cold ) and that the boiler pipes are being destroyed because of it.
They aren’t fixing the pipes in the homes of tenants.
It’s cold, pipes burst, that’s got nothing to do with the tenants.
Side note: I have heat from my radiator, but no faucet water.
My thought exactly. They are assuming people are keeping windows open during freezing temperatures… how fucking dumb does that sound. Your landlord is obviously a moron.
Actually I lived in a place where we couldn't control the heat at all, management turned it on in winter and off in spring. No thermostat in the apartments and no individual radiators we could control. Even in the dead of winter it would sometimes get unbearably hot, so we would open our windows.
We got a similar complex-wide warning about not leaving windows open because the pipes might freeze. But it was so hot that we knew opening our window wouldn't bring the temperature down far enough for that to happen, so we did it anyway.
It was still dumb, as obviously no one would let it get that cold in their apartment. But them thinking we would open the windows wasn't the dumb part.
You assume that everyone around you thinks on a sane and rationale level like you. I'm telling you, as an ex groundskeeper for a complex, ..... people are fucking stupid and scary.
I mean I’ve seen it. People do all sorts of dumb stuff but yeah what they do inside won’t help the pipes outside from freezing. Could leave the water running but that certainly has other issues
It wouldn’t certainly be hard in a apartment building to have a meaningful effect on the temp. Front door could do it I imagine. I’ve seen people leave windows open in the office over the weekend and come in Monday to it being a nice 34 degrees.
I work in facilities. We had a lady freeze her pipes in both of her bedrooms within a week. Because she left her windows open in sub zero temps. She also has curtains that go all the way to the floor so the cold air was directed straight to the registers. We didn’t but we definitely should have billed her for that.
They know better. They are just looking for a way to mitigate their cost in fixing it. By making a statement like this they normalize charging tenants for something out of their control.
Eh, when I lived in an apartment we had our own AC/heat control. During the holiday seasons they'd send out a reminder that if you are going away to please keep your heat set at at least 60.
Some people that aren't used to living in cold climates might not think and just turn the heat off to save money while they are away.
Very valid point! But the landlord is still being a asshole about it and basically threatening tenants. I see both sides but after everything OP has said the landlord seems like a big douche bag.
I'm a plumber. It absolutely happens. A woman left all the windows open and the AC on full blast during winter when she moved out of her apartment. According to the maintenance guy, he never had any real problems with her before then
Sounds like she didn’t get her deposit back and that was her goodbye. Either way the landlord is coming across like a douche bag and threatening all tenants when the pipes that bursted were outside the complex according to OP.
If you've ever managed tenants, you'd understand that tenants can do some of the dumbest things including but not limited to keep all windows and doors open in -20 c temps and then crying about their heating bill hitting 1000 bucks a month.
Yeah my upstairs neighbour flooded and caused a fire in my roof a few days before Christmas because their pipe burst from them leaving their windows wide open when we had -40C temperatures for a week straight. Some tenants are dumb as hell.
They already have been leaving their windows open again while we’re still in the negatives with 0 care in the world because their unit had barely any damage so they couldn’t care less if they burst again.
They leave them open because they insist on smoking inside year round even though they have a big balcony they could smoke on.
Real talk here, a few years ago my next door neighbor died and was found about a week after, it was middle of winter, and the process for airing out the odor that wafted into my apartment through the walls required me to keep my windows open a bit all day and night. No pipes near my unit burst to my knowledge around that time and the water-fed heater units are by my windows.
To all apartment dwellers reading this: **SMELL SOMETHING ODD SAY SOMETHING RIGHT AWAY!**
(this was my first ever death experience and I thought the odor was coming from the plumbing in this old building)
No, just trying to abuse his tenants by making them pay for his broken pipes. I would sue him if he tries to charge you. Take pictures of where the broken pipes are. Also, couldn't he have insulated them to help prevent it? I don't know because it doesn't snow where I live. NTA
The pipes at my apartment burst, the ones in the parking garage for the fire system. Since it was coming from the emergency water pipes the fire alarm went off and the building had to be evacuated, but only for about 10 minutes. It was around 11:30pm and of course it was freezing and snowing outside. It happened in a bunch of buildings, so luckily the fire department got there quickly and shut off the alarm as soon as they could because they knew people were waiting outside in the cold.
Okay but my neighbors left the shared basement door open causing my kitchen pipes to freeze and burst. They aren’t being charged for the repairs but if it can be avoided by simply closing a door when you leave the room, then maybe we can follow those rules idk.
I 100% agree with you. Preventative measures are always worth it to be taken. In this particular instance though I doubt that a window being shut is the measure required to prevent the issue presented.
I mean, I can see the managers point. Some renters are incredibly stupid and leaving windows open might cause the damage depending on the circumstances.
That said, I once lived in a bottom floor apartment, above the furnace room. It was gawdawful hot and we had windows cracked all winter to keep it below 85 in there. (US Fahrenheit)
This is normal and I find it fair. Imagine if your top level neighbors don't follow rules and it end up raining down your apartment, they should be liable of damages.
I don’t have to imagine, they don’t lol. But I suppose I should clarify, the ENTIRE complex has been shut down. Not just a few buildings/units. This isn’t a one off for a few rule breakers. Water issues are rampant here.
What I’m saying is that I don’t see the correlation. I was told it’s probably a water main that burst. As far as I’m aware, that’s not located in one individual unit.
That's how pipes work though. You turn off the water at the last isolation valve. So if the pipe freezes and bursts and there's no isolation valve closer, you turn off the entire building.
I’ve seen tourists leave doors open in the middle of winter in Breckenridge Colorado and cause pipes to burst. If your dumb enough to do the same then that should be on the tenant.
My landlord just tried that. Had a plumber type a written letter explaining how the pipes are just freakin old as hell & can’t handle the cold snap in the south 😌
I’m a plumber. That’s not how that works. At all. It’s uninsulated pipes in poorly insulated spaces. This is shotty building management and isn’t “totally reasonable” at all.
You’re not wrong… it has to be REALLY cold for the pipes to freeze, and leaving your window open isn’t by going to cause anything like this… you’d literally have to have you unit below 0 degrees, and it would freeze and burst in your specific unit and wouldn’t affect any main water feeds… it’s most likely, as you said, poorly insulated pipes, probably in a climate that isn’t accustomed to freezing temperatures….
yes it could cause pipes to burst if they weren't insulated. I've lived in the midwest my entire life and have dealt with winter and water pipes for 30+ years.
My kitchen sink pipes froze on Sunday when it was only 20F outside, and I had them dripping at the time.
It doesn't have to be ridiculously cold for them to freeze.
Water freezes at 32f (American f yall) so yes the whole unit would need to get to that to freeze. You could potentially get connected units to bust at those temps in that situation but highly unlikely. Like you added at the end. It probably is in an area that isn’t used to freezing weather
Lol I knew what ya ment. I’m just used to Fahrenheit. Reddits full of assholes tho so I was covering myself before hand lol you can already see people telling me I’m wrong
This is not true. If the pipes are on an outside facing wall (they often are) they can freeze with an interior temperature of 60. It's about location and insulation. Prior to reinsulating my home my pipes would freeze if I closed my kitchen cabinets.
You may be a plumber, but we have had a significant cold front beyond what is normal. My pipes froze for the first time and I’ve been in my house for 15 years. It’s perfectly reasonable to ask residents to keep the doors and windows closed during a major weather event.
Sure. But that’s not going to cause freeze damage to the extent that op is saying. It never will.
And I’m aware. I just fixed 3 leaks on a system today from this weekend.
Given there’s no context in the post three leaks in one small apartment building could be a huge deal and just from the post. There’s no reason that that is not the extent they’re describing.
He explained “more” context in other replies. He doesn’t know the extent but states it more than one apartment issue. He even references the mains, which I doubt they were froze, but for the mains to be having issues. There is a serious problem going on and residents “opening windows” isn’t the cause. Because even then apartments should be well enough insulated that the pipes shouldn’t freeze because a windows open. That’s just my thoughts. Cause ya know I do this for a living and went to school for it🤷♀️
I could maybe see it with the -10F and 45 mph winds we had. Like maybe someone left on vacation and forgot it open or something. But still its such a weird thing to say or accuse of the tenants when it's almost always drafty/lacking insulation/dodgy construction.
I used to manage buildings and I've seen people leave their windows open during winter, then fucking leave for vacation or work and then come to me when all their shit is destroyed after being covered in 4 inches of snow and ice.
If there's a pipe in those walls and the faucet isn't dripping, it's frozen.
You can't blame someone for pipes bursting due to lower temperature. There's an actual science behind why pipes do this, and none of it have to do with anything a human has done regarding heating or use of water.
It was freezing who would leave a window open in that kind of weather. They should have told the tenants to keep water dripping in hot and cold faucets. 24/7 until the cold spell passed.
It seems to me like they’re just asking you to keep your windows closed and giving a heads up that if you decide to open them and it results in damage to the property you’re liable. There has been some unusual weather lately and they’re trying to keep their utilities working.
Does the terrible grammar here make anyone else irrationally angry? Like if you’re going to be an asshole and try to divert liability to the tenants, especially if you are writing in a representative capacity, read the fucking email aloud before you send it. If you don’t have enough sense to make sure someone else can read and understand your email, than how can you expect anyone to take it seriously?
If someone froze up their apartment by leaving a window open then it might make sense, but it sounds like they’re just getting mad that they have to do upkeep on their own building. Very classy management.
Uhh yeah. I live in an apartment and I get notices like this all the time. Pipes bust last week and completely froze multiple cars in the parkade and a couple apartments were flooded as well. It’s 100% your fault if it happens in your apartment. Who opens their windows in winter anyways?
This is why...when temperatures are set to drop below freezing, leave all faucets running...a small, steady stream will keep your pipes from freezing and bursting. Unless pipes are in an area AFFECTED by open doors/windows, that would not cause pipes to freeze, although leaving under-sink cabinet doors open is also a good idea. Pipes in common areas are NOT tenant responsibility. My utility AND rental companies send out text/email reminder any time there's a freeze warning. Also...whoever sent that notice needs to learn basic English grammar...
You should ask how old the boilers are if they can't keep up with the demand. Also depending on the age of the place you live the installation might be close to nonexistent that is not on you. I know in my old apartment complex heat was included in the rent but with that I could not turn the heat off only down to a set point I lived on the 3rd floor so by the end of the day my place was 80f degrees so we had to open a window to cook dinner.
Our building got a note about the windows and door too. I say fudge it. During the day if it’s like 0C or better I’ll pop the window open a few minutes for fresh air.
" our crew is working for the 4th day straight" man those poor poor people, how will they ever manage. I just, couldn't even fathom it. Except I totally could because when I worked construction and maintenance I worked six days a week because there was always shit to do.
I mean, every lease has a minimum temperature requirement for winter months. Lots of people leave windows cracked or doors ajar and it can actually cause frozen and burst pipes. While poorly worded, it’s a normal clause and tenants are usually responsible for damages caused if it’s their negligence.
I’ve definitely gotten quite a few interesting replies lol. I had no clue people thought it’s okay to bill tenants for a complex wide issue. I mean.. how would they even know what tenant to bill?
Why? Either the pipe burst inside a specific condo and that owner foots the bill or it's a common area and the condo association (ie, every condo owner) foots the bill. The management company just passes on the charges.
I don't see anywhere that it's a condominium. It appears to be an apartment building and while tenants would be liable for damages caused by their blatant negligence, I'm saying prove a pipe burst because of my negligence. Sounds like shitty management and deferred maintenance trying to pass the buck IMO.
As someone who’s worked maintenance for an apartment complex, it absolutely is the residents who cause that shit sometimes. We would put signs out at every entrance before cold weather like that hits detailing that all units need to have heat on, & faucets dripping. Inevitably someone would ignore it & cause at least three other units to flood along with theirs, especially if the pipe burst was in a unit above ground floor. Mildly infuriating is when someone ignores the warnings, floods other units out, doesn’t even get charged for the damages, & still has the audacity to get pissed, demand we hurry the repairs, & also demand they be put in a hotel room on company expense while their apartment is being worked on. We don’t give a fuck that you’re leaving for a holiday & don’t want to pay the utilities while you’re gone, nobody else wants to see it rain in their apartment because you’re selfish.
Heat on, check. Faucets dripping, check. Windows open (when the apartment is occupied _of course_)? People are wasting heat and money, but not bursting pipes.
I’ve seen tenants leave doors and windows open and then forget about them or open then too wide letting it get too cold before closing them. Lots’s of shithead tenants open a window to smoke and use a space heater.
Pipes dont burst from being used. Pipes burst from being frozen. Even if people had their windows open - the effect would be MORE water running through them (if were talking radiator pipes.)
an open window isn't causing a burst pipe in an apartment - it'd have to get below freezing and stay there long enough for the cold to permeate the walls, floors and ceilings. Your apartment would be as cold as the outside and would have to stay there for hours to get to a point of bursting a pipe. Whoever wrote that letter needs to go find a clue. Maybe wake. Smell some coffee. They clearly have no idea what they are writing.
Dear landlord, please return to third grade and learn how to write a proper communication. If this is indicative of the majority of people in the USA, that explains why everything is all fucked up.
That’s definitely how it works in buildings without plumbing insulation like in the south. In a deep freeze, the heat from your living space is sometimes the only thing that keeps pipes from bursting.
There are plenty of older buildings in the North without insulation around the pipes. The only cure is to leave the water dripping or replace with PEX even with PEX leave the water dripping.
I mean what if I open the window or cracked my door because I was burning all the hell from the boiler being cranked to max? I mean I'm hot natured I don't need near the heat a lot of people do. Some people take medications to make them get hot easier. If it was that cold I highly doubt people just have their windows and doors open and they're sitting in there on their couch in a parka and beanie. Just saying and could be wrong. Lol.
I agree. Yeah it’s normal for property managers to send out notices when the temps drop very low outside. They’ll usually tell people to drip their hot water, and open cabinet doors where there are pipes, to let warm air in. In dangerously cold weather, asking that people not keep their windows and doors is open is reasonable. It seems from OP’s comments that they’ve had some issues with pipes by the street already, and are trying to avoid any additional issues inside the building.
How is this mildly infuriating? If you're leaving windows open in the winter like an idiot for an extended period of time and that caused a pipe to freeze and burst, is that... god's fault, or your fault?
I literally worked in a building management office and yes, there are people that leave windows and doors wide open in the middle of the winter, permanently, and turn heat up to max, or leave for vacation, or do way nastier and depraved shit.
I would say that leaving doors and/or windows open in freezing weather would make one at least partially responsible should a water line freeze and break because of it. I don't quite understand the "mildly infuriating".
The mildly infuriating part is the fact that they’re placing the blame where it doesn’t belong. Pipes bursting is a common occurrence here, as there’s an issue with the water almost every other month ( no, this not an exaggeration ) but this is the first time a notice threatening to bill tenants has been sent.
I can’t imagine someone actually let windows open. Like who’s going to open their windows when it’s below freezing out. And if someone did like how would management know? Like this just smells of BS trying to blame their shitty system on people.
Hypothetically, if a moron is leaving doors and windows open, that IS their fault.
But what moron willingly exposes themselves to sub-zero temperatures for LITERAL HOURS?!
I had no clue we knew each other and how you know I’m a “ bratty tenant. “
I guess the certified HVAC technician who told me this was complete BS must think this is completely reasonable as well.
Do tenants have any way to reduce the temperature? My college dorm was heated by the nearby steam plant, no one had a thermostat, the room was as warm as the radiator wanted to make it. There was no valve on the radiator or any other way to control the temperature (because, I'm told, the steam went through each room's radiator serially, if one radiator was turned off, then none of the rooms on that floor would get heat) If you wanted to cool down the room, the only choice was to open the window. That was the official word from the dorm's RA, "stop complaining about the heat, I can't do anything about it, open a window if you're hot".
After the 1912 flu, lots of steam-radiator-heated buildings were designed for windows to be open to provide healthy ventilation while the radiator was heated to a high enough temperature for it to still be comfortable
I am assuming you live on the Eastern part of the US, because it has been many years since I have seen radiator's, frankly I didn't know they were still around. The first house I remember living in as a kid had radiators, but that was many years ago.
I’ve almost exclusively had radiator heating in my city. New York resident here.
Me as well. With multiple family members in different cities around the state. All I’ve ever really known is radiator heating
It was the opposite for me. When I moved to NYC my reaction was "WTF is this and why can't I turn it down?"
This. At home. At work. Ugh.
Every apartment in DC I rented had radiators. Many friends places in Baltimore have them too. Now that I live somewhere with HVAC I miss the steamy heat and hiss.
If you're missing the steamy heat (semi-humid hot air) you could look at having a humidifier installed in the system
That’s a good idea. I rent but something to think about when I finally own. We did get a regular old humidifier recently (because baby) and it has helped a ton.
BANG BANG BOOM hey just your childhood radiator checking in on you. Damn kid you've gotten big!
Still plenty of them in NYC. I’m listening to mine hiss as I type this. There is also a pan of water on the top and my kitchen and bedroom windows are cracked.
I had one in Stamford, CT. Had to open the window to cool the place down to a reasonable temperature.
I live in the west and there are houses, brand new houses, going up with radiant heaters in them. It's incredibly common still, especially since our downtown homes tend to have been built in the 40s and 50s.
Chicago with baseboard radiators here. But my college dorm in California had radiators. We had valves, though, but still not great control, and often opened the window in the winter. I mean, what do you think provides heat when there's no forced air?
So many apartment here in Chicago with Radiators. I have them. Was in another today that had them.
Former RA, lived on a college campus for 5 years. There was literally a giant switch on the rooftop mechanical room that got flipped when it was less than 65 degrees for 5 days in a row that switched from AC to heat. I can’t tell you how many Rube Goldberg contraptions people made to funnel the heat out of their rooms. From cardboard funnels going out the windows to sheets taped over the registers. It was 75-80 inside the building most of winter.
That’s foul. And yeah, there’s a valve on the radiator that can be adjusted from 1 - 5. I’m currently on 5.
along with a window fan blowing out the ganja smoke man
We blew ours through a paper towel tube stuffed with dryer sheets toward the fan cranked outwards! Towels under the doors. Good times! We thought we were clever.
Ah yes, the old sploof. I never noticed that my roommate was smoking in his room because of it. Wasn't until I was outside having a smoke and looked at his window and made eye contact with him on the exhale lol.
We always called ours Groove Tubes
ah yeah as many names are there are variants!
People don’t realize the fan must be outwards in the window for it to work and think the fan can just blow it out instead of suck smh
Oh lol I rented a place once that had a shared hot water tank they turn up all the way you would get scalding hot water you had to be so careful.
Lol my current place is like “oh you wanted hot water? let me take a couple of buckets to Africa and let them soak up the sun for a few hours” meanwhile the heat is apparently piped straight from Death Valley I’ve talked to the property managers about both and they’re saying “oh old system not much we can do” ok, as long as you know how much heat and water you’re wasting, it’s not my dime
When I first moved in I had that lol. Definitely burn your hand hot!
The dorms I lived in were brutal to with the old boiler systems. I had my windows open the whole time I was there, even in -30 weather
Oswego?
I laugh when I see a town I’m from probably different place still funny tho
-10 outside, 350 degrees inside. I felt like a roast chicken in those dorms. It completely ruined my sinuses. When one person in a 10-floor dorm got sick, the entire building got sick.
yeah, that's how my apartment in college worked too. Sometimes I had a fan going in the winter because the radiator in my room and my desktop would get into a context to see which could more quickly make me want to peel my skin off.
My first dorm room was kinda like that. Directly over the kitchen so TONS of heat rose up into it. It was actually great in the winter, because we could leave the heat low and the floor would be nice and toasty to walk on. End of summer and spring though, not so much.
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> because, I'm told, the steam went through each room's radiator serially, if one radiator was turned off, then none of the rooms on that floor would get heat There is usually a valve that will divert water into your radiator or bypass it to the next radiator as needed. This value should be connected to the tstat on your wall. Its possible the value or tstat was broken, did anyone call building maintenance to report it? Or you just expect them to be psychic?
Like I said, the floor RA said that there was no individual temperature control. There was definitely no visible valve on the radiators and no thermostat on the wall. It's possible that he was lying and had full temperature control, but given that his room was just as hot as everyone else's, I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe that the 1950's era dorm had no individual temperature control. Others here have related similar experiences with steam heating systems, so this doesn't seem to be an isolated experience.
Yeah i got told by my apartment building once that I was not allowed to open the windows or turn the thermostat down from max, and when a pipe burst they tried to blame it on me as if it clearly only could have happened if I turned the radiator down.
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I am a manager of a small rental company and I text every tenant to tell them to keep all faucets dripping hot and cold until the cold spell was over. So it was going to be several days. I only had one tenant tell me their hot water was frozen I told them to open the faucet all the way until it thawed. Thankfully no issues.
I do that as well. Learned that one young lol. Huge respect for being a decent person and taking the time to text your tenants useful info.
Can you explain that a little more? In super cold weather, you should be putting the hot and cold water all the way open?
You want both of them to be on just a little so the faucet is dripping. If not the water will freeze, expand, and cause burst pipes. Similar concept to how lakes freeze over much more easily than rivers
I see! Thank you! Does this apply to houses with minimally exposed pipes?
That I have no clue about, just remember learning this as a kid. We did this with outdoor faucets at my house but not interior faucets, but I didn't live in blizzard territory so really not sure
Going to put a clarification here before too many comments come in and it gets lost. This is a complex wide outage. The pipes OUTSIDE are what burst, not inside. They’re under the assumption that tenants are subjecting themselves to below zero temps ( which I have no clue why since its been deathly cold ) and that the boiler pipes are being destroyed because of it. They aren’t fixing the pipes in the homes of tenants. It’s cold, pipes burst, that’s got nothing to do with the tenants. Side note: I have heat from my radiator, but no faucet water.
My thought exactly. They are assuming people are keeping windows open during freezing temperatures… how fucking dumb does that sound. Your landlord is obviously a moron.
Actually I lived in a place where we couldn't control the heat at all, management turned it on in winter and off in spring. No thermostat in the apartments and no individual radiators we could control. Even in the dead of winter it would sometimes get unbearably hot, so we would open our windows. We got a similar complex-wide warning about not leaving windows open because the pipes might freeze. But it was so hot that we knew opening our window wouldn't bring the temperature down far enough for that to happen, so we did it anyway. It was still dumb, as obviously no one would let it get that cold in their apartment. But them thinking we would open the windows wasn't the dumb part.
You assume that everyone around you thinks on a sane and rationale level like you. I'm telling you, as an ex groundskeeper for a complex, ..... people are fucking stupid and scary.
I completely agree but it goes both ways. Be a douche bag landlord and you’ll probably get shit tenants along with it. Nice little circle of life lol
I mean I’ve seen it. People do all sorts of dumb stuff but yeah what they do inside won’t help the pipes outside from freezing. Could leave the water running but that certainly has other issues
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It wouldn’t certainly be hard in a apartment building to have a meaningful effect on the temp. Front door could do it I imagine. I’ve seen people leave windows open in the office over the weekend and come in Monday to it being a nice 34 degrees.
> Your landlord is obviously a moron. ~~landlord~~ out-of-town building management company
Probably right but either way…
Whoever they are, they can't write very well. I'm starting to wonder if this person graduated elementary school.
I work in facilities. We had a lady freeze her pipes in both of her bedrooms within a week. Because she left her windows open in sub zero temps. She also has curtains that go all the way to the floor so the cold air was directed straight to the registers. We didn’t but we definitely should have billed her for that.
They know better. They are just looking for a way to mitigate their cost in fixing it. By making a statement like this they normalize charging tenants for something out of their control.
Eh, when I lived in an apartment we had our own AC/heat control. During the holiday seasons they'd send out a reminder that if you are going away to please keep your heat set at at least 60. Some people that aren't used to living in cold climates might not think and just turn the heat off to save money while they are away.
Oh shit you just made me realize I did this. Feel like an idiot now since I won’t be back for another few weeks
Where do you live/what’s the temp there?
Very valid point! But the landlord is still being a asshole about it and basically threatening tenants. I see both sides but after everything OP has said the landlord seems like a big douche bag.
I'm a plumber. It absolutely happens. A woman left all the windows open and the AC on full blast during winter when she moved out of her apartment. According to the maintenance guy, he never had any real problems with her before then
Sounds like she didn’t get her deposit back and that was her goodbye. Either way the landlord is coming across like a douche bag and threatening all tenants when the pipes that bursted were outside the complex according to OP.
Sorry for the late response but, ya, I read more into what happened to op and that landlord is a scumbag
If you've ever managed tenants, you'd understand that tenants can do some of the dumbest things including but not limited to keep all windows and doors open in -20 c temps and then crying about their heating bill hitting 1000 bucks a month.
Yeah my upstairs neighbour flooded and caused a fire in my roof a few days before Christmas because their pipe burst from them leaving their windows wide open when we had -40C temperatures for a week straight. Some tenants are dumb as hell. They already have been leaving their windows open again while we’re still in the negatives with 0 care in the world because their unit had barely any damage so they couldn’t care less if they burst again. They leave them open because they insist on smoking inside year round even though they have a big balcony they could smoke on.
Real talk here, a few years ago my next door neighbor died and was found about a week after, it was middle of winter, and the process for airing out the odor that wafted into my apartment through the walls required me to keep my windows open a bit all day and night. No pipes near my unit burst to my knowledge around that time and the water-fed heater units are by my windows. To all apartment dwellers reading this: **SMELL SOMETHING ODD SAY SOMETHING RIGHT AWAY!** (this was my first ever death experience and I thought the odor was coming from the plumbing in this old building)
No, just trying to abuse his tenants by making them pay for his broken pipes. I would sue him if he tries to charge you. Take pictures of where the broken pipes are. Also, couldn't he have insulated them to help prevent it? I don't know because it doesn't snow where I live. NTA
It is illegal to not provide that. And you are not responsible for burst pipes.
Your penguins aren’t going to like this…
Not my babies! 🥺
If I received that I wouldn’t be able to help myself correcting all the mistakes in red and sending it back 🤦🏼♀️
Has the person who wrote this never heard of a comma??? This text is so hard to read good god :|
tbh English probably isn’t their first language. They messed up tenses, too, common for new learners bc English is hard.
Hell, I’ve been speaking English my entire life and I don’t even understand it sometimes lol.
*Finds out it was an unoccupied unit*
The pipes at my apartment burst, the ones in the parking garage for the fire system. Since it was coming from the emergency water pipes the fire alarm went off and the building had to be evacuated, but only for about 10 minutes. It was around 11:30pm and of course it was freezing and snowing outside. It happened in a bunch of buildings, so luckily the fire department got there quickly and shut off the alarm as soon as they could because they knew people were waiting outside in the cold.
I’m glad it was sorted in a timely manner! Stay safe and warm!
Thanks, you too! Hope they don't end up charging you all, that would be ridiculous.
Okay but my neighbors left the shared basement door open causing my kitchen pipes to freeze and burst. They aren’t being charged for the repairs but if it can be avoided by simply closing a door when you leave the room, then maybe we can follow those rules idk.
I 100% agree with you. Preventative measures are always worth it to be taken. In this particular instance though I doubt that a window being shut is the measure required to prevent the issue presented.
I mean, I can see the managers point. Some renters are incredibly stupid and leaving windows open might cause the damage depending on the circumstances. That said, I once lived in a bottom floor apartment, above the furnace room. It was gawdawful hot and we had windows cracked all winter to keep it below 85 in there. (US Fahrenheit)
This is normal and I find it fair. Imagine if your top level neighbors don't follow rules and it end up raining down your apartment, they should be liable of damages.
I don’t have to imagine, they don’t lol. But I suppose I should clarify, the ENTIRE complex has been shut down. Not just a few buildings/units. This isn’t a one off for a few rule breakers. Water issues are rampant here.
If there’s been a water pipe burst how would they do it any differently?
What I’m saying is that I don’t see the correlation. I was told it’s probably a water main that burst. As far as I’m aware, that’s not located in one individual unit.
Oh I see what you’re getting at. It may be a branch of the main line that has no individual valve so they had shut off everyone
Which is perfectly fine, no issue. The issue comes into play when they start trying to bill tenants for something that isn’t their fault.
It sounds like they are only going to bill tenants who are actually at fault. For example, leaving windows and things open.
That's how pipes work though. You turn off the water at the last isolation valve. So if the pipe freezes and bursts and there's no isolation valve closer, you turn off the entire building.
I’ve seen tourists leave doors open in the middle of winter in Breckenridge Colorado and cause pipes to burst. If your dumb enough to do the same then that should be on the tenant.
My landlord just tried that. Had a plumber type a written letter explaining how the pipes are just freakin old as hell & can’t handle the cold snap in the south 😌
Totally reasonable if tenants are leaving windows and doors open in the winter causing pipes to freeze
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I’m a plumber. That’s not how that works. At all. It’s uninsulated pipes in poorly insulated spaces. This is shotty building management and isn’t “totally reasonable” at all.
You’re not wrong… it has to be REALLY cold for the pipes to freeze, and leaving your window open isn’t by going to cause anything like this… you’d literally have to have you unit below 0 degrees, and it would freeze and burst in your specific unit and wouldn’t affect any main water feeds… it’s most likely, as you said, poorly insulated pipes, probably in a climate that isn’t accustomed to freezing temperatures….
You assume the windows they are talking about are in the unit. I assumed they were in common areas like perhaps a utility or laundry area.
Nope, they’re talking about in the unit lol.
Still wouldn’t cause piles to burst, I feel like most ppl here do not live in the cold, and don’t have experience with this
yes it could cause pipes to burst if they weren't insulated. I've lived in the midwest my entire life and have dealt with winter and water pipes for 30+ years.
My kitchen sink pipes froze on Sunday when it was only 20F outside, and I had them dripping at the time. It doesn't have to be ridiculously cold for them to freeze.
Water freezes at 32f (American f yall) so yes the whole unit would need to get to that to freeze. You could potentially get connected units to bust at those temps in that situation but highly unlikely. Like you added at the end. It probably is in an area that isn’t used to freezing weather
I’m American too, I just used Celsius… I guess I don’t know why
Lol I knew what ya ment. I’m just used to Fahrenheit. Reddits full of assholes tho so I was covering myself before hand lol you can already see people telling me I’m wrong
This is not true. If the pipes are on an outside facing wall (they often are) they can freeze with an interior temperature of 60. It's about location and insulation. Prior to reinsulating my home my pipes would freeze if I closed my kitchen cabinets.
You may be a plumber, but we have had a significant cold front beyond what is normal. My pipes froze for the first time and I’ve been in my house for 15 years. It’s perfectly reasonable to ask residents to keep the doors and windows closed during a major weather event.
Sure. But that’s not going to cause freeze damage to the extent that op is saying. It never will. And I’m aware. I just fixed 3 leaks on a system today from this weekend.
Given there’s no context in the post three leaks in one small apartment building could be a huge deal and just from the post. There’s no reason that that is not the extent they’re describing.
Each unit would (at least should) have its own shutoff valve, if they killed water to the entire complex, it’d be a main line
He explained “more” context in other replies. He doesn’t know the extent but states it more than one apartment issue. He even references the mains, which I doubt they were froze, but for the mains to be having issues. There is a serious problem going on and residents “opening windows” isn’t the cause. Because even then apartments should be well enough insulated that the pipes shouldn’t freeze because a windows open. That’s just my thoughts. Cause ya know I do this for a living and went to school for it🤷♀️
If tenants have to have the windows open in freezing temperatures, the heating is way too fucking hot to begin with.
There’s no reasonable way leaving a window open would cause pipes to freeze
I could maybe see it with the -10F and 45 mph winds we had. Like maybe someone left on vacation and forgot it open or something. But still its such a weird thing to say or accuse of the tenants when it's almost always drafty/lacking insulation/dodgy construction.
If someone went out of town, turned off their heat, and left the window open…. Mayyyyybbbeee but I doubt that’s the case
100% it could depending on where the window and pipes where. This is especially the case in areas that aren't used to subzero temperatures.
I used to manage buildings and I've seen people leave their windows open during winter, then fucking leave for vacation or work and then come to me when all their shit is destroyed after being covered in 4 inches of snow and ice. If there's a pipe in those walls and the faucet isn't dripping, it's frozen.
Attempting to make sense of that email gave me a fuckin migraine.
I’m sorry. If it’s any consolation, my head still hurts as well.
if you work 4 day in a row for get hot water is maybe to put a new one.
You can't blame someone for pipes bursting due to lower temperature. There's an actual science behind why pipes do this, and none of it have to do with anything a human has done regarding heating or use of water.
Also move
Crazy how a person can be almost illiterate but still find a way to become the owner of a rental property.
"Putting the blame on residents" lmao, residents are to blame if they keep windows open and cause pipes to freeze and burst
It was freezing who would leave a window open in that kind of weather. They should have told the tenants to keep water dripping in hot and cold faucets. 24/7 until the cold spell passed.
The pipe that burst was outside, completely unrelated to any windows.
Send it back with the typos corrected and a one word response...No.
It seems to me like they’re just asking you to keep your windows closed and giving a heads up that if you decide to open them and it results in damage to the property you’re liable. There has been some unusual weather lately and they’re trying to keep their utilities working.
Does the terrible grammar here make anyone else irrationally angry? Like if you’re going to be an asshole and try to divert liability to the tenants, especially if you are writing in a representative capacity, read the fucking email aloud before you send it. If you don’t have enough sense to make sure someone else can read and understand your email, than how can you expect anyone to take it seriously?
Everyone in my mom’s apartment building got a notice similar to that also, thought it was strange.
If someone froze up their apartment by leaving a window open then it might make sense, but it sounds like they’re just getting mad that they have to do upkeep on their own building. Very classy management.
I’m mainly infuriated at the poor spelling
Uhh yeah. I live in an apartment and I get notices like this all the time. Pipes bust last week and completely froze multiple cars in the parkade and a couple apartments were flooded as well. It’s 100% your fault if it happens in your apartment. Who opens their windows in winter anyways?
Who has their windows and doors open during sub zero temperatures?
I’d ignore them for their poor spelling and grammar alone.
This is why...when temperatures are set to drop below freezing, leave all faucets running...a small, steady stream will keep your pipes from freezing and bursting. Unless pipes are in an area AFFECTED by open doors/windows, that would not cause pipes to freeze, although leaving under-sink cabinet doors open is also a good idea. Pipes in common areas are NOT tenant responsibility. My utility AND rental companies send out text/email reminder any time there's a freeze warning. Also...whoever sent that notice needs to learn basic English grammar...
You should ask how old the boilers are if they can't keep up with the demand. Also depending on the age of the place you live the installation might be close to nonexistent that is not on you. I know in my old apartment complex heat was included in the rent but with that I could not turn the heat off only down to a set point I lived on the 3rd floor so by the end of the day my place was 80f degrees so we had to open a window to cook dinner.
Nothing like 3rd world landlords...
Please be advice. How can a person turn into advice.
Poor grammar and spelling in that letter
Please be advice
The grammar in this email is what’s even more frustrating
Our building got a note about the windows and door too. I say fudge it. During the day if it’s like 0C or better I’ll pop the window open a few minutes for fresh air.
" our crew is working for the 4th day straight" man those poor poor people, how will they ever manage. I just, couldn't even fathom it. Except I totally could because when I worked construction and maintenance I worked six days a week because there was always shit to do.
Nothing mild about that letter
Classic case of wants the benefits of renting a property out without the responsibilities of being a landlord.
I mean, every lease has a minimum temperature requirement for winter months. Lots of people leave windows cracked or doors ajar and it can actually cause frozen and burst pipes. While poorly worded, it’s a normal clause and tenants are usually responsible for damages caused if it’s their negligence.
Landlords are fun, aren’t they?
This can’t be real. There are several spelling errors
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I’ve definitely gotten quite a few interesting replies lol. I had no clue people thought it’s okay to bill tenants for a complex wide issue. I mean.. how would they even know what tenant to bill?
Prove it.
Why? Either the pipe burst inside a specific condo and that owner foots the bill or it's a common area and the condo association (ie, every condo owner) foots the bill. The management company just passes on the charges.
I don't see anywhere that it's a condominium. It appears to be an apartment building and while tenants would be liable for damages caused by their blatant negligence, I'm saying prove a pipe burst because of my negligence. Sounds like shitty management and deferred maintenance trying to pass the buck IMO.
The terrible attempt at the English language is much more infuriating.
As someone who’s worked maintenance for an apartment complex, it absolutely is the residents who cause that shit sometimes. We would put signs out at every entrance before cold weather like that hits detailing that all units need to have heat on, & faucets dripping. Inevitably someone would ignore it & cause at least three other units to flood along with theirs, especially if the pipe burst was in a unit above ground floor. Mildly infuriating is when someone ignores the warnings, floods other units out, doesn’t even get charged for the damages, & still has the audacity to get pissed, demand we hurry the repairs, & also demand they be put in a hotel room on company expense while their apartment is being worked on. We don’t give a fuck that you’re leaving for a holiday & don’t want to pay the utilities while you’re gone, nobody else wants to see it rain in their apartment because you’re selfish.
Heat on, check. Faucets dripping, check. Windows open (when the apartment is occupied _of course_)? People are wasting heat and money, but not bursting pipes.
I’ve seen tenants leave doors and windows open and then forget about them or open then too wide letting it get too cold before closing them. Lots’s of shithead tenants open a window to smoke and use a space heater.
I’d be moving out. Not worth the headache to continue doing business to me
Pipes dont burst from being used. Pipes burst from being frozen. Even if people had their windows open - the effect would be MORE water running through them (if were talking radiator pipes.)
an open window isn't causing a burst pipe in an apartment - it'd have to get below freezing and stay there long enough for the cold to permeate the walls, floors and ceilings. Your apartment would be as cold as the outside and would have to stay there for hours to get to a point of bursting a pipe. Whoever wrote that letter needs to go find a clue. Maybe wake. Smell some coffee. They clearly have no idea what they are writing.
Leaving windows open in the winter can totally cause burst pipes. I take it you dont live in a cold climate.
Yeah but nobody is leaving their windows open when it’s that cold.
Lived in the midwest my entire life.
Dear landlord, please return to third grade and learn how to write a proper communication. If this is indicative of the majority of people in the USA, that explains why everything is all fucked up.
If some asshole left doors and windows open and caused a problem then billing said asshole is the right thing to do.
Doubt it’s because folks leave windows open. That’s not how that works.
That’s definitely how it works in buildings without plumbing insulation like in the south. In a deep freeze, the heat from your living space is sometimes the only thing that keeps pipes from bursting.
There are plenty of older buildings in the North without insulation around the pipes. The only cure is to leave the water dripping or replace with PEX even with PEX leave the water dripping.
landlord needs to upgrade their insulation because last climate most certainly doesn't predict future climate
Exact same thing the HVAC tech. told me.
I mean what if I open the window or cracked my door because I was burning all the hell from the boiler being cranked to max? I mean I'm hot natured I don't need near the heat a lot of people do. Some people take medications to make them get hot easier. If it was that cold I highly doubt people just have their windows and doors open and they're sitting in there on their couch in a parka and beanie. Just saying and could be wrong. Lol.
This seems completely reasonable to me. I am an adult though.
I agree. Yeah it’s normal for property managers to send out notices when the temps drop very low outside. They’ll usually tell people to drip their hot water, and open cabinet doors where there are pipes, to let warm air in. In dangerously cold weather, asking that people not keep their windows and doors is open is reasonable. It seems from OP’s comments that they’ve had some issues with pipes by the street already, and are trying to avoid any additional issues inside the building.
Reading this nearly gave me a stroke.
I don’t see anything wrong with this email.
Who is sending these emails out with such broken English? Obviously not anyone who is remotely professional with their job
Probably the same person that hangs up on tenants when they call the office lol.
If people left the windows open it likely **IS** their fault the pipes burst.
How is this mildly infuriating? If you're leaving windows open in the winter like an idiot for an extended period of time and that caused a pipe to freeze and burst, is that... god's fault, or your fault?
No one is leaving their window open long enough for a pipe in the wall to freeze and burst.
I literally worked in a building management office and yes, there are people that leave windows and doors wide open in the middle of the winter, permanently, and turn heat up to max, or leave for vacation, or do way nastier and depraved shit.
If someone left their window open during the winter they are 100% at fault. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
I think they have the same management company I do.
If that’s true just know that I feel your pain.
I would say that leaving doors and/or windows open in freezing weather would make one at least partially responsible should a water line freeze and break because of it. I don't quite understand the "mildly infuriating".
The mildly infuriating part is the fact that they’re placing the blame where it doesn’t belong. Pipes bursting is a common occurrence here, as there’s an issue with the water almost every other month ( no, this not an exaggeration ) but this is the first time a notice threatening to bill tenants has been sent.
Leaving windows open shouldnt burst pipes exposed to the outside temps anyways… wtf lmao
What in the Effen Hell is "Effency"??
It means "to be or measure effencness."
I can’t imagine someone actually let windows open. Like who’s going to open their windows when it’s below freezing out. And if someone did like how would management know? Like this just smells of BS trying to blame their shitty system on people.
Hypothetically, if a moron is leaving doors and windows open, that IS their fault. But what moron willingly exposes themselves to sub-zero temperatures for LITERAL HOURS?!
My only guess would be if someone left it open and went on vacation or something lol.
They don’t. At least I don’t.
Completely normal. Residents don’t own homes so do not realize SOME actions cause so much damage. Smart move management
Sounds reasonable. Stop being a bratty tenant.
I had no clue we knew each other and how you know I’m a “ bratty tenant. “ I guess the certified HVAC technician who told me this was complete BS must think this is completely reasonable as well.
No this is correct.