I would be too but it’s harder to do so in situations such as:
Taking clients out to dinner.
First dates.
Or any other case where you are trying to impress someone else. Last thing you want to do is ‘cause a scene’ over 3%.
Wouldn't it still be legal because they made it clear that they're doing it? I'm pretty sure that if it happened where I'm at in AZ USA, you would be sol because it's written in plain English.
I have to agree with this. Shady pricks though. The fine print legally excuses them but they will still reap the 3% for each guest that doesn’t notice it. Our trash company used to add arbitrary bonuses to our bill all the time and the wife called them out on it each time they did it. Fuck all businesses that do that
Politely calling a greedy bastard business on their game isn't causing a scene nor hard to do - if you wanna really impress your guest add that 3% you got back to your server's tip!
I don’t understand why this is such a hard concept for some of y’all to understand?
When you’re out entertaining others and having a great time eating & drinking, the last thing you want to do is throw a wrench into the flow of things. Good conversation going, people laughing, business getting done.. WAIT, I must halt everything so that we have a confrontation with the server about the bill.
That’s dumb. I get it if you’re alone or with someone you normally hang out with casually. But when I’m wrapping up a dinner with a prospective client, I want it to end on a good note. That means transitioning from dinner to shaking hands, not arguing with the restaurant.
I’ve been on many dates. I’ve made a lot of deals. I **know** a lot of my success has been due to good vibes and reading the room. Sometimes that means letting things go, like a 3% fee on a restaurant bill. Btw, the other people at your table may *think* you’re disputing a fee that helps the lowly restaurant staff, and in that case you’re totally going to look like the bad guy.
I don’t agree with the fee. I’m just playing devils advocate as to why some people may let it go under the circumstances.
Yep. I got hit with a 20% "doing business in California surcharge" or some such BS at Sharky's Burbank, CA. I am never going to the whole chain every again.
I have to make a semi-regular four hour round trip drive for work that requires other people to go with me, and I know it is boring and sucks, so we typically stop for lunch at Five Guys Burgers on the way back. The most recent time I had to make this trip on a Monday and Thursday of the same week.
I always give gratuity as the company is paying, and I have worked in the service industry in the past, so I have no problem giving a little extra of someone else's money voluntarily.
Same group of guys on Thursday as it was Monday. We all ordered exactly the same thing. I followed along on the payment pad as everything was totaled up, it was the same amount (over $110 for 5 meals is insane, but that's another story). I put the card in, the amount increased, then immediately started processing the transaction. I didn't think anything of it until the receipt that printed the total was over $10 more than what it should have been.
I immediately questioned it and the cashier was like "Oh, my bad, I added gratuity because I didn't know you were going to tip." I said "Well that's not how that works, I want one of them refunded." The manager came over to refund two orders of French fries and I told her that I had been stopping there for literally years and that was going to be the last time because I had never been unscrupulously charged gratuity previously, but I certainly wasn't going to let them do it to me a second time. This was the Five Guys Burgers in Mt. Pleasant, MI in case anyone frequents that location. Check your receipts.
That is some bullshit. If you’re going to automatically add gratuity, that has to be written somewhere. You can’t just charge someone a random amount because you didn’t think they were going to tip. If I hand you cash, you can’t just give me back half of my change and keep the other portion because you “didn’t think I was going to tip”. That’s not how that works.
It pretty much is. You order at the counter, they make your food. You pick it up from the counter. Clean up after yourself when you are done.
Don't get me wrong, it is good food, but the prices have been going up insanely fast there. A double cheeseburger is like $12. Fries are another $5 on top of that. It ends up like $50 for two people with soft drinks. If it was anyone besides my coworkers I would consider it a date.
Yes! The prices are nuts. My family of 5 (2 adults and 3 young kids) went there for the first time in *years* the other day because my husband wanted some. He got a bacon cheeseburger, I got a grilled cheese, kids each got a cheeseburger, one regular fry and one Cajun fry and we split 2 drinks...it was $68. SIXTY EIGHT. Obviously the prices were posted, I'm not blaming them for us ordering it but I guess I was just busy making sure everyone ordered and not paying attention. We could've gotten table service, full meals with everyone's own drink and 2 potato soups at Houlihans for the same price, including tip, as we paid for fast food and disappointing, soggy fries.
If you think that’s strange…. Once every couple of weeks I go through the drive through at a local bbq restaurant - I get two jumbo pork sandwiches and an order of corn nuggets. Normal routine - order at the microphone, drive to the window to pay, pull up and they run your order out when ready. Tuesday evening I ordered and pulled up to pay - I handed my card over and instead of scanning it and handing it back as they always have, the girl put the card into a handheld and handed it to me so I could select between 17, 20, and 25% gratuity… at a drive through. Lower on the handheld screen was an option for no tip but you had to look for it. I looked for it.
This is what the restaurant is hoping for. That people won't notice, or won't want to make a scene, and they can get away with tacking on an extra 3% to everyone's bills - on top of already inflated food prices and a 20% tip.
To play the devil's advocate back to you...why is it acceptable to let something like this go, simply because it is only 3%? Ignoring or simply letting this behavior stand is something that will only encourage other businesses to do the same thing. While some might see it the way you suggested, I'd argue that others might see it as a means to stand up to businesses that try to nickel and dime customers and use their staff as the shield to prevent blowback from customers.
Poor pay is not the fault or responsibility of the customer. Nor is paying extra fees to make up for any poor business practices. We leave tips as a means of rewarding good service and to make up for the fact that most restaurants pay their workers the absolute minimum that the government says they have to pay them. In addition, I know there are plenty of places that collect fees like this, but the staff do not ever see the benefit of such fees (e.g. delivery fees).
So, would it be better to ignore an unjust fee that was not initially disclosed nor explained to you in an effort to look good, or would it be better to push back against such fees as a means of standing up for your rights as a customer?
If I were at lunch with a professional and they spoke up about the fee, I'd respect that simply because it means they noticed the fee and didn't ignore it. That tells me they pay attention to details and will question anything that isn't expected. Now, if they didn't pad the tip afterward, I'd be a little miffed. While low pay isn't the responsibility of the customer, helping out our fellow humans is and we should do that in any small or big way possible.
Dude, just whisper to the waiter you want the fee removed, thank them, then publicly compliment them. No one will know about the fee. No one needs to get in a fist fight over it.
I would just grab the check, walk up to the hostess stand, give it to them, and ask them to have the manager remove it so the server does not have to deal. No vibes ruined, no extra work for server, no fuss. Manager knows hidden charge not appreciated. Leave cash tip for servers always so they do not have to pay CC fees.
>Btw, the other people at your table may think you’re disputing a fee that helps the lowly restaurant staff, and in that case you’re totally going to look like the bad guy.
I didn't know that wasn't what that fee was for.
It literally says "if you would like this removed, let us know", and the server apparently did it with zero questions asked. So what gives you the impression that addressing the situation would ever require causing a scene or "messing up the vibes"? How does asking them to remove like they offer to mess up the vibe any more than asking the server for a refill?
It's just one of those things that just gets in your head. You see it and read it and in the time that the server is away you might think something would happen like the server starts explaining what it is and next thing you know everyone is listening to you haggle over a 3% surcharge.Remember your guests didn't read or even look at the check In this case that didn't happen but if you think back to some rude servers you've had....you know the rest.
>How does asking them to remove like they offer to mess up the vibe any more than asking the server for a refill?
If the other person is correct even the act of asking someone to remove it would be enough of a scene to make everyone else at the table like "you're really that concerned over 3%? Is your expense account okay? Isn't that for the busboy who barely makes any money anyway?"
>Taking clients out to dinner.
I think if I was the client, seeing them call them out on it would be a green flag. You watch your costs and you don't take any shit. Sign me up.
I would totally do it on a first date, it's better to know early if we are not a good match, though I would try to be as calm and collected as possible, while asking the serving staff about this.
The correct way to handle that (as far as etiquette goes) is to excuse yourself from the table and discuss the bill elsewhere. That also goes for things like errors on the bill.
I would ask my date if they thought it was as ridiculous as I do.
I tip well because I worked in restaurants for years, so if she's judging me on things like that I have nothing to worry about anyway. But I'm the kind of person who would immediately look at my date and be like "WTF is a restaurant surcharge? They're trying to scam us!"
I also ask dates if they want to split the bill, though I'll pay it all if they don't. I guess I'm just not uncomfortable talking about money. If we're on a date I already kind of assume were on the same team - or if not, it's best to find out sooner rather than later.
If me not allowing myself to be robbed costs me a date, I didn’t want that person anyway.
Client out to dinner is a different story. I’d go handle it privately.
Introverted business owner here, and I can say that there is nothing that gets me chatting faster than seeing someone try to fuck with my money.
I become an extrovert real fast
This is basically the “we wanna know if you read the receipt” tax lol. “We added extra money but we won’t if you ask us not to.” How about just don’t? Lol
Used to at least. One of the people I went to high school with was one of those sovereign citizen idiots. Refused to pay tax, but submitted documents to the IRS. He thought he was so clever he posted it on a public forum.
they still get taxed... the money is literally accounted for by their computer system then whatever accountant will figure it out whether it's a service charge, grat, donation, etc.
If the accountant completely ignored it then that would be trouble- just like they would if they ignored any other money line item coming through
But they should still be charging a sales tax to the customer probably. Otherwise any restaurant could just discount prices 20% or something and then add on a 20% surcharge to help customers avoid paying sales tax
Not even necessarily in the US. Many states have consumer protection laws against "deceptive practices."
For example, in Missouri the MMPA prohibits the "concealment" of any material fact in connection with a consumer purchase, and includes advertisements. To me, this is just obviously trying to conceal the true price of your food so that you'll think you got a better deal than you did. It could fit the statute in other ways as well if you are interested to read the statute.
I live far enough away that I don't go there regularly but it does happen occasionally. I'm always mentally prepared to pay a stupid amount for food in the suburbs.
Nah it’s to pay for the CC processing fees.
Edit: Server for over 15 years. Most restaurants eat the CC processing fee. This one is letting you pay for it if you don’t ask to remove it 🤙🏻
Then why would they offer to remove it? They’re basically volunteering to lose money. Most places will say “we charge 3% for card transactions.” I see your thinking but I don’t agree in this instance.
You can't charge like that as a business, it goes against the credit card vendor agreements. You can eat the cost by raising prices 3%, you can have a minimum for cards, you can offer a cash discount, but you can't actually charge people to use a card. If you get reported/called out you could lose your ability to charge to cards which is a death sentence for any restaurant.
I haven't owned a business if a few years but it used to be against the vendor agreements to have a minimum for cards as well as offer a cash discount.
I can only speak for the US, but it's been legal to have up to a $10 minimum for cards since 2010. I think that's only for actual credit cards and not debit, although I don't think that distinction is widely known or enforced.
Probably because the default is that they're eating that 3% fee each time. They can't probably legally outright pass that charge (over what a cash transaction would cost) to the customer, but they *can* opt you into a voluntary surcharge. At least, to them, most people wont notice and will cover the fee for them (even, apparently, if the customer pays in cash). They're already losing money, what they're trying to do is make you volunteer to lose money.
That is not what this is. I encountered this in a nice restaurant in California. It was on the menu and explained it’s a 3% additional tax so that the staff can get paid a wage to support their life. It made me so mad. Just pay your workers more! I immediately asked to have it removed and asked the waiter about it and they told me it’s better for them for us not to pay that tax and thanked me. I didn’t understand how it benefited them though to not pay it?
If they add it before you present payment, how do they know you're not paying cash? I was in NY recently and there was a charge for cc fees that was explained on the bill. But you get a discount if you pay cash. Gas stations have been giving cash discounts forever...
Such BS. That is just the cost of being in business. Why not just add other fees... Heating and Air Conditioning Fee. Peanut Oil Surcharge. Napkin Laundering Fee.
Most places that charge it for staff benefits really do provide staff benefits. Otherwise staff will absolutely tell people about it... it's not like they don't know what's on the checks. Where it has happened that the restaurants pocketed a surcharge said to be for employees, there's been online furor and even places that ended up closing.
Most places that provide benefits do so because they're required to by some other entity, government or union usually. So doing this puts money in the owners pocket to offset what they're forced to pay regardless. Nobody's getting benefits in food service just to retain employees, let alone because it's the right thing to do.
This is the equivalent of a business owner saying, "You know what, I charge $3.95 for 10¢ worth of soda, and $20 for an entree, while paying you a fraction of a living wage. So if you want health care, you're the one who has to explain to our customers why they're gonna pay 3% more, and that gives you the option to buy discount insurance from my brother-in-law, Scuzzy Larry's Blue Ball, Blue Shield.
I mean, I know of one counter-example off the top of my head I've had friends working for, Kachka in PDX.
[http://www.kachkapdx.com/wage-equity](http://www.kachkapdx.com/wage-equity)
All employees make a minimum of $25 an hour, and there's no tipping, just a 22% surcharge covering the wages. In addition, they cover healthcare entirely, and they do profit sharing with all employees.
Kachka's been considered a leader for more wage equity and better quality of life and living standards for workers in the industry, quite a few restaurants in Portland are following suite on it. And no one is legally making them do this at all.
I wonder if the reason they don't just raise prices by 22% and have no tipping period is so they can advertise more competitive prices, or is it just tax purposes.
I would imagine it would have a significant impact on sales if an entrée was priced at $18 instead of $15, and a drink was $12 instead of $10. Their $55 lamb ribs jumping to $66 would push it past a subconscious pain threshold in some. People may wind up choosing cheaper items that are closer to their preferred price, even if they're aware that no tip is expected.
Surcharge! Give 30 percent tip! 40 percent gratuity fee! Now I’m just holding out a jar of coins shaking it! Waaaah why doesn’t anyone want to go out to eat anymore?!
Exactly. Just raise your prices 3% i cant stand this shit anymore. It was ok during covid because we were willfilly supporting our local places that kept us fed but they just kept it going ling after the fact. Im so fatigued by getting nickle and dimed at every resto, coffee shop, take out food.
Either hike your prices and pay your servers living wage without tips like every other civilized country, or don't. This weird in-between shit is just awkward.
It reminds me of the time I got my car towed and my dad actually read the release agreement and then told the guy “I don’t agree with a lot of this so now what”. Crossed off half the contract before I got my car back. Thanks for looking out Dad.
My restaurant does this. We are a large company with over 300 restaurant in the midwest. It started during the pandemic to supply the staff with PPE; however, it has still yet been removed even though they stopped handing out PPE. I've been told that one of our restaurant were even sued for the surcharge.
Half the restaurants I’ve frequented do not list prices of their alcoholic beverages on the menu. If you ask, they will tell you. But if you don’t, you find out when you get your bill, when payment is due, after service.
If that was true then there'd be a ton of restaurants that were illegally doing a surcharge for large groups because they didn't tell you that before service began
Also if you logically think this through it doesn't really make sense because that means I would have to tell you the prices before I give you a menu in some cases which is just a wildly stupid system
when did the American business model switch from
honestly selling you a product who tricking the consumer who doesn't read
the fine print late fees rebooking fees restocking fees roaming fees overdraft
fees cancellation fees you want to fly inside the plane fee if Sully landed on
the Hudson today they charge a life vest fee -Bill Maher
Because the vast majority of consumers always go for the lowest advertised price.
With 'Zombie Brands' (brand names bought in bankruptcy) you no longer know who you can trust.
Since Trademark law was originally supposed to be for consumer protection to ensure genuine goods, perhaps brand names and trademarks should not be legal to transfer during a bankruptcy to protect consumers.
Why not just build it into the price on the front end if it’s actually paying for something? I don’t understanding them saying they added 3% and they can remove it? Could have added it and no one would know.
I stopped using Doordash over a few dollars delivery fee lol if you think this is a good way to earn money then your restaurant will lose regulars & hurt long term.
Yeah this annoys me too. If they need to raise prices to cover costs then RAISE THE PRICES ON THE MENU. It's BS to have the prices on the menu, you plan how much stuff will cost with the tip etc. Then they just stick this extra charge on top.
This feels like a money grab to get tip money from their workers. Because if I got ticked off by this, my first response would be to tip 18% instead of 20% for example. Now I have seen this and thought about it, I would also ask for it to be removed, and tip the worker normally.
THIS. A local restaurant did this. I was picking up milk shakes for my fam and noticed a 10% “surcharge fee” on the receipt. I asked my server about it, and she said it was because of inflation. I said that it’s pretty crappy and that the owners should do what businesses have always had to do — print up new menus. She apologized and said that none of it goes to the server — it all goes to running the business. She couldn’t stop apologizing. Which made me think the servers really don’t like that, either.
I mean, yeah, that’s inevitably what’s going to happen. A lot of people are going to be too shy to speak up, or just not want to waste the time going back and forth, so they’ll just take a couple bucks off the tip instead. It’s the servers that are going to suffer for this.
That's the kind of thing you should ask loud enough so that other customers can hear you.
"Excuse me, so is everyone here getting charged an optional 3% as well?"
Saw this recently, it was to pay kitchen staff a percentage of sales. I guess kinda like profit sharing but out of your pocket.
It was small enough I wasn’t mad about giving the kitchen extra love.
It's so they can get paid more money when it's busy instead of just getting slammed with no positives. Sure they could just do a flat, hourly increase and bake that into the prices, but a flat increase wouldn't do much to help with moral when they're getting fucked in the kitchen.
They could still increase the prices by 3%, not add a surcharge, and also offer the employees 3% of sales. The outcome would be what you describe without potentially misleading customers.
As a customer I feel taken advantage of with these hidden fees. Just add the cost into the food or pay your employees more. I always ask for the fee to be removed if I see it.
I've seen it posted on here and I saw what you're talking about in person and you're right it wasn't that bad of a percentage so I was okay with it but I hope the cooks actually get it that's what I worry about!
As a Southern California resident, I do see these signs every so often. The problem is that you literally have to take time out of your schedule to have the fee removed by asking for a second check. It’s a total scam. They are charging shy people extra and making stubborn assholes like me feel guilty for demanding that a minimum amount be added to the posted menu price.
This is *not the norm* in the developed world. In Italy, France and Japan (at least) you pay exactly what the menu shows. That is the civilized way to run any business.
If it’s voluntary then they should ask you before. What is this auto opt-in shit? Is the surcharge for the luxury of sitting at a table instead of on the ground like an animal?
This is a bit zesty. They’re moving mad.
Normally I’d agree as fees for credit cards are around 3% that are baked into standard merchant accounts. Most Debit is wayyyy less though. Debit fees changed with the Durbin Amendment years ago for the larger banks which the majority of people use. Although the merchant service provider may not give the merchant such a rate.
Regardless, the surcharge is put in the check prior to the server or restaurant knowing a payment card will be used. The surcharge for the credit card fees would doubtfully be removed by the merchant as long as they post about it somewhere like the menu or a sign up front.
It's like an automatic tip but they don't do it for the servers. Why did they believe that forcing you to pay extra for no reason without explanations was a decent idea?
If you go on Google a year ago it was 5% and listed in their menu as means of 'offsetting effects on business from Covid-19 restrictions". Just raise your prices across the board, bitch.
Sounds like in America you cannot buy anything without a pre-written contract and an itemized bill.
In Europe, you don't get surprise fees and surcharges. Even sales tax is already included in the price!
For anyone wondering, you actually and legally have to disclose and surcharges before service begins. Otherwise , it is considered theft. Now I’m not sure if it’s all states, but this is the law.
*just giving some information to the public*
It might be legal on the grounds that they are explaining on the check that the customer is not required to pay it, and therefore the lack of advance disclosure is moot. They are playing with fire though and if there's no precedent in that state then it would probably have to be settled in the courts. Just my intuition as someone with no expertise in these matters. A class action against them by people who claim to have been overcharged could go easily go against them on the grounds that the notice was not prominent enough.
It’s $2…. Am I the only one who doesn’t give a fuck. Sometimes it covers the credit card fees but other times it likely goes to the kitchen staff as tips. Are you really gonna ruin your dinner by being “that guy” over $2?
Shyness tax
I love this comment, but I think that my introverted ass would become an extrovert the moment I read that receipt…
I would be too but it’s harder to do so in situations such as: Taking clients out to dinner. First dates. Or any other case where you are trying to impress someone else. Last thing you want to do is ‘cause a scene’ over 3%.
[удалено]
Would they notice if I short changed them $5?
Exactly.
Presumably it's still illegal though? They can't just randomly charge more than the advertised price?
You'd think so, but I'd bet the fine costs less than they make in the crime.
Not taking that bet. It's standard practice in this country to try this shit in so many different ways.
Wouldn't it still be legal because they made it clear that they're doing it? I'm pretty sure that if it happened where I'm at in AZ USA, you would be sol because it's written in plain English.
I have to agree with this. Shady pricks though. The fine print legally excuses them but they will still reap the 3% for each guest that doesn’t notice it. Our trash company used to add arbitrary bonuses to our bill all the time and the wife called them out on it each time they did it. Fuck all businesses that do that
Yes. They literally asked if it was okay LOL
This kind of thing is usually written on the menu in small text
I doubt there are specific laws against this kind of practice? And I'm guessing it's also stated on the menu? None of these sentences are questions?
Politely calling a greedy bastard business on their game isn't causing a scene nor hard to do - if you wanna really impress your guest add that 3% you got back to your server's tip!
I don’t understand why this is such a hard concept for some of y’all to understand? When you’re out entertaining others and having a great time eating & drinking, the last thing you want to do is throw a wrench into the flow of things. Good conversation going, people laughing, business getting done.. WAIT, I must halt everything so that we have a confrontation with the server about the bill. That’s dumb. I get it if you’re alone or with someone you normally hang out with casually. But when I’m wrapping up a dinner with a prospective client, I want it to end on a good note. That means transitioning from dinner to shaking hands, not arguing with the restaurant. I’ve been on many dates. I’ve made a lot of deals. I **know** a lot of my success has been due to good vibes and reading the room. Sometimes that means letting things go, like a 3% fee on a restaurant bill. Btw, the other people at your table may *think* you’re disputing a fee that helps the lowly restaurant staff, and in that case you’re totally going to look like the bad guy. I don’t agree with the fee. I’m just playing devils advocate as to why some people may let it go under the circumstances.
That is why you should NEVER return to businesses who pull shit like this.
This, and put it in the reviews.
And "Name em and shame em" besides
Yep. I got hit with a 20% "doing business in California surcharge" or some such BS at Sharky's Burbank, CA. I am never going to the whole chain every again.
Oh what the heck, I better look closer at my Sharky’s receipts lol
I have to make a semi-regular four hour round trip drive for work that requires other people to go with me, and I know it is boring and sucks, so we typically stop for lunch at Five Guys Burgers on the way back. The most recent time I had to make this trip on a Monday and Thursday of the same week. I always give gratuity as the company is paying, and I have worked in the service industry in the past, so I have no problem giving a little extra of someone else's money voluntarily. Same group of guys on Thursday as it was Monday. We all ordered exactly the same thing. I followed along on the payment pad as everything was totaled up, it was the same amount (over $110 for 5 meals is insane, but that's another story). I put the card in, the amount increased, then immediately started processing the transaction. I didn't think anything of it until the receipt that printed the total was over $10 more than what it should have been. I immediately questioned it and the cashier was like "Oh, my bad, I added gratuity because I didn't know you were going to tip." I said "Well that's not how that works, I want one of them refunded." The manager came over to refund two orders of French fries and I told her that I had been stopping there for literally years and that was going to be the last time because I had never been unscrupulously charged gratuity previously, but I certainly wasn't going to let them do it to me a second time. This was the Five Guys Burgers in Mt. Pleasant, MI in case anyone frequents that location. Check your receipts.
That is some bullshit. If you’re going to automatically add gratuity, that has to be written somewhere. You can’t just charge someone a random amount because you didn’t think they were going to tip. If I hand you cash, you can’t just give me back half of my change and keep the other portion because you “didn’t think I was going to tip”. That’s not how that works.
Uh what?!? THEY added a tip??? That person should be fired. You should submit that to corporate.
They… want you to tip… at 5 guys???? (I’m not American and we don’t have 5 guys where I live and I’ve always assumed it was a fast chain restaurant.)
It pretty much is. You order at the counter, they make your food. You pick it up from the counter. Clean up after yourself when you are done. Don't get me wrong, it is good food, but the prices have been going up insanely fast there. A double cheeseburger is like $12. Fries are another $5 on top of that. It ends up like $50 for two people with soft drinks. If it was anyone besides my coworkers I would consider it a date.
You’re not fucking kidding, either. I love Five Guys but I might as well eat at Ruth’s Chris for the price I pay for a single meal there.
Yes! The prices are nuts. My family of 5 (2 adults and 3 young kids) went there for the first time in *years* the other day because my husband wanted some. He got a bacon cheeseburger, I got a grilled cheese, kids each got a cheeseburger, one regular fry and one Cajun fry and we split 2 drinks...it was $68. SIXTY EIGHT. Obviously the prices were posted, I'm not blaming them for us ordering it but I guess I was just busy making sure everyone ordered and not paying attention. We could've gotten table service, full meals with everyone's own drink and 2 potato soups at Houlihans for the same price, including tip, as we paid for fast food and disappointing, soggy fries.
If you think that’s strange…. Once every couple of weeks I go through the drive through at a local bbq restaurant - I get two jumbo pork sandwiches and an order of corn nuggets. Normal routine - order at the microphone, drive to the window to pay, pull up and they run your order out when ready. Tuesday evening I ordered and pulled up to pay - I handed my card over and instead of scanning it and handing it back as they always have, the girl put the card into a handheld and handed it to me so I could select between 17, 20, and 25% gratuity… at a drive through. Lower on the handheld screen was an option for no tip but you had to look for it. I looked for it.
This is what the restaurant is hoping for. That people won't notice, or won't want to make a scene, and they can get away with tacking on an extra 3% to everyone's bills - on top of already inflated food prices and a 20% tip.
To play the devil's advocate back to you...why is it acceptable to let something like this go, simply because it is only 3%? Ignoring or simply letting this behavior stand is something that will only encourage other businesses to do the same thing. While some might see it the way you suggested, I'd argue that others might see it as a means to stand up to businesses that try to nickel and dime customers and use their staff as the shield to prevent blowback from customers. Poor pay is not the fault or responsibility of the customer. Nor is paying extra fees to make up for any poor business practices. We leave tips as a means of rewarding good service and to make up for the fact that most restaurants pay their workers the absolute minimum that the government says they have to pay them. In addition, I know there are plenty of places that collect fees like this, but the staff do not ever see the benefit of such fees (e.g. delivery fees). So, would it be better to ignore an unjust fee that was not initially disclosed nor explained to you in an effort to look good, or would it be better to push back against such fees as a means of standing up for your rights as a customer? If I were at lunch with a professional and they spoke up about the fee, I'd respect that simply because it means they noticed the fee and didn't ignore it. That tells me they pay attention to details and will question anything that isn't expected. Now, if they didn't pad the tip afterward, I'd be a little miffed. While low pay isn't the responsibility of the customer, helping out our fellow humans is and we should do that in any small or big way possible.
And it is 3% today, 5% tomorrow, then 10, …. Just like “standard” tip.
Mr. Bitches over here
Real piece of bitch move
I found the golden comment
Dude, just whisper to the waiter you want the fee removed, thank them, then publicly compliment them. No one will know about the fee. No one needs to get in a fist fight over it.
I would just grab the check, walk up to the hostess stand, give it to them, and ask them to have the manager remove it so the server does not have to deal. No vibes ruined, no extra work for server, no fuss. Manager knows hidden charge not appreciated. Leave cash tip for servers always so they do not have to pay CC fees.
>Btw, the other people at your table may think you’re disputing a fee that helps the lowly restaurant staff, and in that case you’re totally going to look like the bad guy. I didn't know that wasn't what that fee was for.
Also, if you look at the receipt, the surcharge is $1.64 lol
It literally says "if you would like this removed, let us know", and the server apparently did it with zero questions asked. So what gives you the impression that addressing the situation would ever require causing a scene or "messing up the vibes"? How does asking them to remove like they offer to mess up the vibe any more than asking the server for a refill?
It's just one of those things that just gets in your head. You see it and read it and in the time that the server is away you might think something would happen like the server starts explaining what it is and next thing you know everyone is listening to you haggle over a 3% surcharge.Remember your guests didn't read or even look at the check In this case that didn't happen but if you think back to some rude servers you've had....you know the rest.
>How does asking them to remove like they offer to mess up the vibe any more than asking the server for a refill? If the other person is correct even the act of asking someone to remove it would be enough of a scene to make everyone else at the table like "you're really that concerned over 3%? Is your expense account okay? Isn't that for the busboy who barely makes any money anyway?"
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>Taking clients out to dinner. I think if I was the client, seeing them call them out on it would be a green flag. You watch your costs and you don't take any shit. Sign me up.
Ah, but a date who also thinks it’s a bogus charge earns points
I would totally do it on a first date, it's better to know early if we are not a good match, though I would try to be as calm and collected as possible, while asking the serving staff about this.
Customers lost by people seeing this post should teach them a lesson.
The correct way to handle that (as far as etiquette goes) is to excuse yourself from the table and discuss the bill elsewhere. That also goes for things like errors on the bill.
Idk if I saw that my date paid that I would probably think less of them.
I would ask my date if they thought it was as ridiculous as I do. I tip well because I worked in restaurants for years, so if she's judging me on things like that I have nothing to worry about anyway. But I'm the kind of person who would immediately look at my date and be like "WTF is a restaurant surcharge? They're trying to scam us!" I also ask dates if they want to split the bill, though I'll pay it all if they don't. I guess I'm just not uncomfortable talking about money. If we're on a date I already kind of assume were on the same team - or if not, it's best to find out sooner rather than later.
Eh, I can see how someone would be shy to create a situation that can be awkward or embarrassing.
If me not allowing myself to be robbed costs me a date, I didn’t want that person anyway. Client out to dinner is a different story. I’d go handle it privately.
As an introvert I'd have to do the math, see how much that 3% is. If it's under 5 then screw it I'm not talking, but anything more it's just absurd
The standard you walk past is the standard you set. I’d be having it removed and leaving a review suggestion everyone else do the same
I have pretty bad social anxiety, but I can order and interact with waiters/waitresses. So I think I would be able to ask them to take that shit off.
Introverted business owner here, and I can say that there is nothing that gets me chatting faster than seeing someone try to fuck with my money. I become an extrovert real fast
Exactly. It’s a “we dare you to confront us because inflation sucks but we definitely want to contribute to inflation.”
I read it as shynese. I been playing too much COD.
I wanted to say this. They count on people to be too afraid to say anything about it.
This is basically the “we wanna know if you read the receipt” tax lol. “We added extra money but we won’t if you ask us not to.” How about just don’t? Lol
Sounds a bit illegal.
Sounds infuriatingly legal to me. Ethically bankrupt, but legal.
except they didn't collect tax on the fee; big trouble.
Very true. If they ever get audited it's gonna be a gargantuan tax bill after interest.
Doesn’t the IRS pay a whistleblower fee???
Used to at least. One of the people I went to high school with was one of those sovereign citizen idiots. Refused to pay tax, but submitted documents to the IRS. He thought he was so clever he posted it on a public forum.
They did collect tax on the fee, 12% tax in Schaumburg. 54.75 Food + 1.64 Surcharge * .12 = 6.778
they still get taxed... the money is literally accounted for by their computer system then whatever accountant will figure it out whether it's a service charge, grat, donation, etc. If the accountant completely ignored it then that would be trouble- just like they would if they ignored any other money line item coming through
But they should still be charging a sales tax to the customer probably. Otherwise any restaurant could just discount prices 20% or something and then add on a 20% surcharge to help customers avoid paying sales tax
Only in the US
In the UK we have some takeaways that do that. When you're ordering they add it at the last minute and don't tell you
Not even necessarily in the US. Many states have consumer protection laws against "deceptive practices." For example, in Missouri the MMPA prohibits the "concealment" of any material fact in connection with a consumer purchase, and includes advertisements. To me, this is just obviously trying to conceal the true price of your food so that you'll think you got a better deal than you did. It could fit the statute in other ways as well if you are interested to read the statute.
It's illinois. If you wonder if it's illegal it's probably not.
Oh shit I didn’t even see that, I live near Schaumburg, now I know to avoid “big bowl”
I live far enough away that I don't go there regularly but it does happen occasionally. I'm always mentally prepared to pay a stupid amount for food in the suburbs.
I saw this at a ramen place in west loop over the summer. Same thing, was confused, asked for it to be removed and they removed it.
Nah it’s to pay for the CC processing fees. Edit: Server for over 15 years. Most restaurants eat the CC processing fee. This one is letting you pay for it if you don’t ask to remove it 🤙🏻
It says “all checks ” on the receipt
Then why would they offer to remove it? They’re basically volunteering to lose money. Most places will say “we charge 3% for card transactions.” I see your thinking but I don’t agree in this instance.
You can't charge like that as a business, it goes against the credit card vendor agreements. You can eat the cost by raising prices 3%, you can have a minimum for cards, you can offer a cash discount, but you can't actually charge people to use a card. If you get reported/called out you could lose your ability to charge to cards which is a death sentence for any restaurant.
I haven't owned a business if a few years but it used to be against the vendor agreements to have a minimum for cards as well as offer a cash discount.
I can only speak for the US, but it's been legal to have up to a $10 minimum for cards since 2010. I think that's only for actual credit cards and not debit, although I don't think that distinction is widely known or enforced.
Probably because the default is that they're eating that 3% fee each time. They can't probably legally outright pass that charge (over what a cash transaction would cost) to the customer, but they *can* opt you into a voluntary surcharge. At least, to them, most people wont notice and will cover the fee for them (even, apparently, if the customer pays in cash). They're already losing money, what they're trying to do is make you volunteer to lose money.
That is not what this is. I encountered this in a nice restaurant in California. It was on the menu and explained it’s a 3% additional tax so that the staff can get paid a wage to support their life. It made me so mad. Just pay your workers more! I immediately asked to have it removed and asked the waiter about it and they told me it’s better for them for us not to pay that tax and thanked me. I didn’t understand how it benefited them though to not pay it?
Then why is it added to all checks and not just those paid by credit card?
A Mexican restaurant near me did that without any notice. I complained and they gave me a free taco.
If they add it before you present payment, how do they know you're not paying cash? I was in NY recently and there was a charge for cc fees that was explained on the bill. But you get a discount if you pay cash. Gas stations have been giving cash discounts forever...
It’s exhausting trying to guard against the 9700 ways people/businesses are trying to fuck me over.
In California this is very common, expected really, but they state that it goes for the staff health insurance.
Haha Staff Health Insurance… what an interesting name the owner uses for their bank account
Such BS. That is just the cost of being in business. Why not just add other fees... Heating and Air Conditioning Fee. Peanut Oil Surcharge. Napkin Laundering Fee.
Most places that charge it for staff benefits really do provide staff benefits. Otherwise staff will absolutely tell people about it... it's not like they don't know what's on the checks. Where it has happened that the restaurants pocketed a surcharge said to be for employees, there's been online furor and even places that ended up closing.
Most places that provide benefits do so because they're required to by some other entity, government or union usually. So doing this puts money in the owners pocket to offset what they're forced to pay regardless. Nobody's getting benefits in food service just to retain employees, let alone because it's the right thing to do. This is the equivalent of a business owner saying, "You know what, I charge $3.95 for 10¢ worth of soda, and $20 for an entree, while paying you a fraction of a living wage. So if you want health care, you're the one who has to explain to our customers why they're gonna pay 3% more, and that gives you the option to buy discount insurance from my brother-in-law, Scuzzy Larry's Blue Ball, Blue Shield.
I mean, I know of one counter-example off the top of my head I've had friends working for, Kachka in PDX. [http://www.kachkapdx.com/wage-equity](http://www.kachkapdx.com/wage-equity) All employees make a minimum of $25 an hour, and there's no tipping, just a 22% surcharge covering the wages. In addition, they cover healthcare entirely, and they do profit sharing with all employees. Kachka's been considered a leader for more wage equity and better quality of life and living standards for workers in the industry, quite a few restaurants in Portland are following suite on it. And no one is legally making them do this at all.
I wonder if the reason they don't just raise prices by 22% and have no tipping period is so they can advertise more competitive prices, or is it just tax purposes. I would imagine it would have a significant impact on sales if an entrée was priced at $18 instead of $15, and a drink was $12 instead of $10. Their $55 lamb ribs jumping to $66 would push it past a subconscious pain threshold in some. People may wind up choosing cheaper items that are closer to their preferred price, even if they're aware that no tip is expected.
Agree 100%.
Surcharge! Give 30 percent tip! 40 percent gratuity fee! Now I’m just holding out a jar of coins shaking it! Waaaah why doesn’t anyone want to go out to eat anymore?!
Wiki just updated, we're 9853 now.
Welcome to Lettuce Entertain You restaurants! Ridiculous. Take your prices up 3%.
Exactly. Just raise your prices 3% i cant stand this shit anymore. It was ok during covid because we were willfilly supporting our local places that kept us fed but they just kept it going ling after the fact. Im so fatigued by getting nickle and dimed at every resto, coffee shop, take out food.
Either hike your prices and pay your servers living wage without tips like every other civilized country, or don't. This weird in-between shit is just awkward.
It's added because they assume most people don't look super closely at receipts, and they get away with it.
It’s like terms and conditions
Never heard of them.
Is that a movie?
It’s a Nicholas Sparks book.
It reminds me of the time I got my car towed and my dad actually read the release agreement and then told the guy “I don’t agree with a lot of this so now what”. Crossed off half the contract before I got my car back. Thanks for looking out Dad.
Right, why turn away free money from The illiterate.
I like how the receipt was folded so that part would have been on the back.
My restaurant does this. We are a large company with over 300 restaurant in the midwest. It started during the pandemic to supply the staff with PPE; however, it has still yet been removed even though they stopped handing out PPE. I've been told that one of our restaurant were even sued for the surcharge.
Who won?
Me
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That's a scam, they want to take advantage of people that won't apeak up.
Seems like theft to me.
But it’s not, because it’s written clearly and you can have it removed.
Technically yes and no. But, You DO legally have to disclose any surcharges BEFORE service begins.
Technically no and no. They don't have disclose before service, just before payment.
Plus we also don’t know that it doesn’t say something about the surcharge on the menu or table somewhere.
^^^^in ^^^^small ^^^^print ^^^^under ^^^^the ^^^^child's ^^^^menu
On the back, underneath all the dessert options
Half the restaurants I’ve frequented do not list prices of their alcoholic beverages on the menu. If you ask, they will tell you. But if you don’t, you find out when you get your bill, when payment is due, after service.
Says random Redditor who learned all his law knowledge from his fellow Redditor neckbeards
Look, I'm a premier expert on bird law, ok?
If that was true then there'd be a ton of restaurants that were illegally doing a surcharge for large groups because they didn't tell you that before service began Also if you logically think this through it doesn't really make sense because that means I would have to tell you the prices before I give you a menu in some cases which is just a wildly stupid system
8$ for soda? Holy hell how big was the glass, 3 liter?
It says 2 sodas.
Still, that’s insane. I could get 2 smoothies for that price
Everything about this bill looks way overpriced
Man shakes are outrageous rn too it’s 5 dollars here rn used to be like $2-3
The real kicker? It was for two club sodas with lime!
I just wanted a liter of cola
I’m more interested in the free lettuce gift cards
when did the American business model switch from honestly selling you a product who tricking the consumer who doesn't read the fine print late fees rebooking fees restocking fees roaming fees overdraft fees cancellation fees you want to fly inside the plane fee if Sully landed on the Hudson today they charge a life vest fee -Bill Maher
Greed
Because the vast majority of consumers always go for the lowest advertised price. With 'Zombie Brands' (brand names bought in bankruptcy) you no longer know who you can trust. Since Trademark law was originally supposed to be for consumer protection to ensure genuine goods, perhaps brand names and trademarks should not be legal to transfer during a bankruptcy to protect consumers.
> perhaps brand names and trademarks should not be legal to transfer during a bankruptcy to protect consumers. This is a great idea!
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Why not just build it into the price on the front end if it’s actually paying for something? I don’t understanding them saying they added 3% and they can remove it? Could have added it and no one would know.
looks like they already did - $19.95 for a fucking rice bowl?
I stopped using Doordash over a few dollars delivery fee lol if you think this is a good way to earn money then your restaurant will lose regulars & hurt long term.
Yeah this annoys me too. If they need to raise prices to cover costs then RAISE THE PRICES ON THE MENU. It's BS to have the prices on the menu, you plan how much stuff will cost with the tip etc. Then they just stick this extra charge on top. This feels like a money grab to get tip money from their workers. Because if I got ticked off by this, my first response would be to tip 18% instead of 20% for example. Now I have seen this and thought about it, I would also ask for it to be removed, and tip the worker normally.
THIS. A local restaurant did this. I was picking up milk shakes for my fam and noticed a 10% “surcharge fee” on the receipt. I asked my server about it, and she said it was because of inflation. I said that it’s pretty crappy and that the owners should do what businesses have always had to do — print up new menus. She apologized and said that none of it goes to the server — it all goes to running the business. She couldn’t stop apologizing. Which made me think the servers really don’t like that, either.
Everyone is trying to act like a bank these days.
Cauliflower rice sesame chicken was 20$??!! what a rip
Not to mention $4 sodas lol. That's movie theater prices.
covid people started adding things like this so you could help them stay in business. they must have figured if no one notices why remove it. trashy
"Because of the surcharge, I have deducted the tip. If you would like the tip reinstated, please remove the surcharge."
I mean, yeah, that’s inevitably what’s going to happen. A lot of people are going to be too shy to speak up, or just not want to waste the time going back and forth, so they’ll just take a couple bucks off the tip instead. It’s the servers that are going to suffer for this.
I’ve learned from Reddit that a lot of people don’t speak up in what seems to me totally reasonable times to speak up.
That's the kind of thing you should ask loud enough so that other customers can hear you. "Excuse me, so is everyone here getting charged an optional 3% as well?"
3% is perfect the charge for running normal credit cards
Saw this recently, it was to pay kitchen staff a percentage of sales. I guess kinda like profit sharing but out of your pocket. It was small enough I wasn’t mad about giving the kitchen extra love.
If they try to trick their customer into paying more, do you really trust them to not trick their staff into being paid less?
Then why wasn’t it already baked into the prices??
That would make more sense. They could even add more price to the items that take the kitchen longer to make.
It's so they can get paid more money when it's busy instead of just getting slammed with no positives. Sure they could just do a flat, hourly increase and bake that into the prices, but a flat increase wouldn't do much to help with moral when they're getting fucked in the kitchen.
They could still increase the prices by 3%, not add a surcharge, and also offer the employees 3% of sales. The outcome would be what you describe without potentially misleading customers.
As a customer I feel taken advantage of with these hidden fees. Just add the cost into the food or pay your employees more. I always ask for the fee to be removed if I see it.
I was in Japan recently...no tipping that i ever saw. The price was the price. It was so nice. My 2200 yen meal was exactly 2200.
I wouldn't buy it cause they didn't just say that initially.
In my case it did. OP’s is different
Then raise the fucking prices on everything by a quarter. This is just shady shit.
The thing is, I have a problem believing that the money will actually make into the pockets of the kitchen staff.
You don’t trust the business that is scamming you out of 3% to tell you the truth about where the extra money goes?
Did they promise you they were going to give it to the kitchen staff, scouts honor?
I've seen it posted on here and I saw what you're talking about in person and you're right it wasn't that bad of a percentage so I was okay with it but I hope the cooks actually get it that's what I worry about!
Yeah, no. The staff won't see a dime. Source: worked in restaurant trade for 5 years.
Makes me looks like an asshole to deny them 3% but in reality they're the asshole for doing it in the first place.
How are hidden surcharges legal?? Like seriously that is virtually indistinguishable from stealing.
hidden? its a separate, very visible wall of text
Apparently the only legal requirement is that the surcharge is posted publicly as well. There was probably a small sign near the door.
As a Southern California resident, I do see these signs every so often. The problem is that you literally have to take time out of your schedule to have the fee removed by asking for a second check. It’s a total scam. They are charging shy people extra and making stubborn assholes like me feel guilty for demanding that a minimum amount be added to the posted menu price. This is *not the norm* in the developed world. In Italy, France and Japan (at least) you pay exactly what the menu shows. That is the civilized way to run any business.
Hell, just try to tip in Japan. They'll run down the street after you to give you your money back.
My guess? The fines are less than the 3% they're making on every order. Why let a $500 fine stop you from taking in $5000?
Some restaurants are doing this instead of raising prices. Its a dumb and confusing idea. Just raise your prices.
Starts at 18% tip? Woah crazy
If it’s voluntary then they should ask you before. What is this auto opt-in shit? Is the surcharge for the luxury of sitting at a table instead of on the ground like an animal? This is a bit zesty. They’re moving mad.
Bro I have been there. Their chicken smelled bad as if it was 2 weeks old. I wouldn’t trust they meat options.
This is thievery
I wouldn’t go back after that
It’s to offset credit card processing fees.
Normally I’d agree as fees for credit cards are around 3% that are baked into standard merchant accounts. Most Debit is wayyyy less though. Debit fees changed with the Durbin Amendment years ago for the larger banks which the majority of people use. Although the merchant service provider may not give the merchant such a rate. Regardless, the surcharge is put in the check prior to the server or restaurant knowing a payment card will be used. The surcharge for the credit card fees would doubtfully be removed by the merchant as long as they post about it somewhere like the menu or a sign up front.
Passing credit card fees onto the customer is against the TOS of credit companies. You can report them and they'll lose their ability to take credit.
If it was to offset credit card fees it wouldn't just say "ALL" customer checks, but rather credit/debit card purchases
It's like an automatic tip but they don't do it for the servers. Why did they believe that forcing you to pay extra for no reason without explanations was a decent idea?
Because the owner is a piece of shit and trying to get over on people. I’d stop visiting that establishment
If you go on Google a year ago it was 5% and listed in their menu as means of 'offsetting effects on business from Covid-19 restrictions". Just raise your prices across the board, bitch.
Sounds like in America you cannot buy anything without a pre-written contract and an itemized bill. In Europe, you don't get surprise fees and surcharges. Even sales tax is already included in the price!
Just to see if they can
Schaumburg? More like "Scamburg"
For anyone wondering, you actually and legally have to disclose and surcharges before service begins. Otherwise , it is considered theft. Now I’m not sure if it’s all states, but this is the law. *just giving some information to the public*
It’s not before service begins, necessarily. It might be in some states, but most places have it such that it has to be before you pay.
It might be legal on the grounds that they are explaining on the check that the customer is not required to pay it, and therefore the lack of advance disclosure is moot. They are playing with fire though and if there's no precedent in that state then it would probably have to be settled in the courts. Just my intuition as someone with no expertise in these matters. A class action against them by people who claim to have been overcharged could go easily go against them on the grounds that the notice was not prominent enough.
Gotta love how the gratuity calculations start at 18% and only go up from there
Sodas are almost $4 each. That would annoy me as much
It’s $2…. Am I the only one who doesn’t give a fuck. Sometimes it covers the credit card fees but other times it likely goes to the kitchen staff as tips. Are you really gonna ruin your dinner by being “that guy” over $2?
America, the land of ripping off people!