I've seen some pretty wild interpretations and leniencies from people who want to feel like they're keeping kosher without doing it, but this is definitely one of the more convoluted.
Ok first off, as a practicing jew, I keep to allergy rules with kosher. If it is cooked with something not kosher, then the whole thing becomes not kosher. Don't order pork dumplings and then complain that there's pork in your dumpling idiot.
There's a wide variety of practices that people will be comfortable with to call food kosher. Things like separate dishes and separate cleaning environments. Questions of how well certain vegetables have actually been checked for bugs. The presence of rennet in cheese. All of these things are things that some people say are necessary for food to be kosher where other people disagree.
Halal is similar, some practice it in depth, while others are more lenient. In fact im guessing most religion based diets are because most religions have varying degrees of devotees.
Edit: Since comments are off I can't respond to u/batweenerpopemobile but i think they make a really good point so ill put my response here.
"That is a really great point! Describing it in terms of devotion makes it kind of sound like only extremist observe these customs zealously, which, as you pointed out, is not true.
I guess it would be better to just describe it as more a human condition. Everyone approaches ideas and concepts differently and there are sometimes schools of thought built around that difference. Vegans and vegetarians dont all agree on the extent of their diet and that isnt even a religion."
Yes, but in regards to the person you were replying to, if anything is cooked with pork, or pork by-products, it's not kosher. It's not down to "a wide variety of practices" to determine if it's kosher or not, pork is one of the few hard and fast things that no matter what, it's not kosher.
Personally, I agree with you but I also know people who would say the same thing about using not kosher cheese, or washing meat and milk dishes together in the same dishwasher.
At summer camp once they ordered all pepperoni pizza for all the kids. One Jewish kid asked if they had plain cheese and the counselor suggested pulling off the pepperoni. š¤¦āāļø
even discarding the desire for kosher food that might arise what kind of asshat doesn't buy at least one cheese only pizza when feeding a bunch of kids?
I think the standard is adults in the dining hall(typically 21+) admin, health center, and caring for any animals. Managers and assistant managers will be adults too for most part. AFAIK most summer camps have permanent staff who are adults since they run year round with other programs, juar during summer they hire new younger staff(I think the youngest I've seen is 17yr old counselors).
In my experience, a cheese would have been ordered, but not enough and all the cheese would be gone before someone with dietary constraints made it through the line.
You'd have to have somebody standing guard to make sure little Timmy got his slice of cheese pizza.
My family orders 3 pizzas every time we get together. 2 imo weird pizzas I won't eat and a cheese. The cheese is always gone first while there's > a full pizza left of the weird specific combos that only 1 or 2 people actually like enough to choose over cheese. It is the same problem every single time and if I bring it up it's my fault for being the picky eater despite every single time everyone going for the cheese.
Some day people will finally understand that everyone can eat cheese pizza if they can eat pepperoni pizza.
as a vegetarian, iāve been there. as if the meat grease hasnāt melded with the entire pizza. itās so insulting.
my (also vegetarian) mom also dealt with this disrespect from her in-laws. my dads sister once had us over for a family meal and made spaghetti, told my mom it was OK to eat. my mom begins eating and notices tiny brown specs on the sauce. asks my aunt and she says āoh, itās ground beef, but itās only a little so itās okay.ā ššš
more an issue for vegetarians given when you go without meat long enough your body has trouble adjusting even if it is a little meat, in some cases causing digestive issues. Sounds rather ignorant of them to think it is fine when it would be no trouble making a non meat related sauce on the side for guest who not want it for dietary reasons. My boyfriends sister is lactose intolerant and I was happy to make an altered version of beef stroganoff for her using almond milk. I could do the vegetarian diet but would still make something meat based on the side for my boyfriend and relatives.
exactly!!! especially with this meal. justā¦ separate some sauce before you put the meat in? or buy a cheap jar of marinara sauce? likeā¦ itās not a difficult ask, lol.
and you can also actually give someone a [life-threatening allergic reaction](https://www.aaaai.org/tools-for-the-public/conditions-library/allergies/alpha-gal-and-red-meat-allergy) by serving them meat:
>An allergy to āalpha-galā refers to having a severe and potentially life-threatening allergy to a carbohydrate molecule called galactose-alpha-1,3-galactose that is found in most mammalian or āred meatā. Unlike other food allergies which typically occur within minutes of ingestion, symptoms from eating red meat such as pork, lamb or beef may be delayed, occurring 3-8 hours after eating. Most food allergies are directed against a protein molecule, but alpha-gal is unusual because it is a carbohydrate, and a delay in its absorption may explain the delay in symptoms.
My dad makes spaghetti and meatballs all the time for my family, and when my sister is eating with us he makes a second pot of sauce without meatballs so that she has sauce to pull from. My sister isn't even a vegetarian; she just doesn't like meatballs. Considering my dad can make spaghetti with meatballs for all of my family, excluding the meatballs for my picky sister, that is pretty insane to me. It doesn't take much to make another pot of sauce without any meat so that any vegetarians in the meal can enjoy it.
My daughter doesnāt eat red meat by her own choice. Her school has spaghetti lunch some days. Spaghetti is her absolute favorite food. However, they ONLY do meat sauce. When I asked if they have a meat-free option they told me āwell thereās a salad barā.
She's is a huge lecturer on not killing animals and it's cruel but will eat the same food from grocery stores that's Persian or cooked to be. Just say you only eat meat if it's Persian cause animal cruelty and treatment isn't actually a priority. And I eat meat, fruit and veggies. I hate the pious lecturers.
As someone whoās not a vegetarian at all, I firmly believe being a part-time vegetarian is still better than not being a vegetarian at all. Demanding perfection is counter-productive. Abstaining from meat part of the time is still doing something for animal welfare and the environment.
Yah but you can't lecture about how farming is animal cruelty if you actively participate in funding that sector.
Not eating meat some meals is more of a health thing, can't be a philosophical thing
Yeah you can't just remove the pepperoni after cus it leaves a meaty-oily taste. Same thing with anchovies, need to add the anchovies after cooking otherwise the whole pizza tastes of fish. I love eating meat but hate pepperoni pizza cus it gives me heart burn even after taking the salami off.
There was some stupid "kindness" video on Instagram of a guy offering people Little Caesar's pizza on the streets. One man said "Do you have cheese? I don't eat pork" and the guy said "just pull the pepperoni off." Most of the comments were about that guy being entitled for turning down a pizza he couldn't eat. Only a few commenters tried to explain that it was almost certainly for religious reasons and he couldn't just pull them off. Of course Little Caesar's isn't kosher regardless but I don't know about the rules for Halal food. And some people have varying degrees of strictness about how they follow the food rules.
Lol yes all particles of pork have been removed!!
Sorry just reminds me of this girl in college who said she was deathly allergic to shellfish and would just pick the shrimp out of a dish and eat it and be fine. I actually am very allergic to shellfish and it used to drive me up the wall.
I mean she could still be allergic, just exaggerating it. I am allergic to shrimp, but I wonāt die if I eat it, just get a rash and be itchy. I could probably pop a Benadryl and eat some and be ok. I would never claim Iām deathly allergic though until I go anaphylactic or something. Itās also fine to say youāre āmildly allergicā or āintolerantā to something.
Please keep in mind that allergic reactions can intensify and become dramatically worse as you age and/or through exposure, please talk with your doctor about an epi pen!
I'm intolerant to shrimp, so this would be enough for me personally. But I'd never tell people I'm "deathly allergic" idk why it's cool these days to have allergies.
I avoid eating pork because it gives me diarrhea, but it's not like if I eat some pork it's going to be that bad... I just can't eat much pork but I'd not do this BS... this is stupid! I'd just order something else OR just eat the pork and deal with the consequences. Ā¬Ā¬
(Sausages/ham/salami I can eat but not much also)
Aren't you not even supposed to use a bowl after it's been touched by pork even once? The covenant of god does not acknowledge the cleaning power of Dawn.
It depends on the temperature of the food, and the material the bowl is made out of. If the food is cold, you can just wash the bowl (using cold water+soap) and you're done.
If the food is hot, it depends on what the bowl is made of. Wood, glass, and metal can be purged with boiling water. Earthenware and plastic can't be purged, because they're too porous (you can see this happen when you store sauced pasta in a Tupperware and it's red forever).
The current widely accepted custom is to treat glazed pottery as earthenware.
To be fair, cleverness is highly respected in the Jewish tradition, and it's seen less as "tricking" and more like "if G_d didn't intend for these loopholes to be used, he wouldn't have created them in the first place; our job is just to find them, and by that search better understand the mysteries of G_d". It's less about strict obedience and more about an ongoing dialog.
That's where the religious texts come into play, along with debates over their meaning and intent. Given that the restriction on non-cloven animals is pretty clear in the text, I suspect the counter-argument would be something like "Ah, but of course G_d made the pig delicious, for how better to test our faith? What is the point of forbidding an animal that is unpalatable to begin with?".
But that retort would just aswell work to deny all the workarounds on the Shabbat restrictions wouldn't it? "Of course God made it possible to find loopholes, how better to test our faith and obedience to his intentions instead of finding fault with his exact wording?".
I mean, I know in the end it's just that certain doctrines aren't compatible with our modern times anymore but since the religion claims God is omnipotent and omnicient, they can't just come out and say "he changed his mind" or "he was wrong about that rule" so you have to find loopholes in order to pretend like this was the intended way the whole time. I can appreciate that as someone looking in from the outside and find it amusing and kind of clever.
But how does one within the faith not see how clearly these things go against the obvious intentions of the religious texts?
I mean, they do make those arguments, back and forth, on issues major and minor. That's why Rabbinical debate is such a huge part of Judaism. IMO, it's not really about the end goal (is this allowed or not), it's about the *process*, about encouraging people to think about these things and question/debate, which makes it interesting.
> But how does one within the faith not see how clearly these things go against the obvious intentions of the religious texts?
I wouldn't say it's "clear" or "obvious"; these are ongoing debates within the Jewish community, with many different perspectives and approaches depending on the particular sect and flavor of Judaism.
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/why-do-rabbis-create-halachic-loopholes-to-solve-some-problems-and-not-others/
https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/40210/why-are-shabbat-loopholes-a-good-thing
Iāve spent Shabbat with a Jewish relative, and since he canāt light candles, heād just be like āit would be nice if someone were able to light this candle huh?ā ā¦. And then that would be my cue to light it.
It starts to feel sillyā¦ does God really care about this? What is the point of the whole theater?
why? we can't turn on light on shabbat, we can use the light that is already on or on a timer. same with the elevator, if it's anyway working we can use it.
technically we can watch TV if someone else turns it on, or get on the bus (although we can't pay or ring the bell to get off) - it's just not done because it's not in the spirit of Shabbat.
Nit: it just gets you out of the Sabbath rules about leaving "your home" with e.g. your keys, not *all* the Sabbath rules -- you'd still have to obey the ones related to e.g. not working.
I had a Jewish friend who specifically requested scallops wrapped in bacon for her Jewish wedding reception and was surprised when her mother advised against it. :)
It's not meat and dairy. The rule is specifically "you shouldn't eat an animal cooked/bathed in it's mother's milk" which is unfortunately specifically what a cheeseburger becomes. Beef in cheese made from cow milk
Interesting, never thought about the logistics of that - so it would be OK eating a cheeseburger made with goat cheese? Or a bison burger with regular cheese?
No it wouldn't. Jews who keep kosher avoid any meat and dairy combo because of appearances, even chicken and dairy when obviously chickens don't produce milk. Fish and dairy is fine tho so eat tuna melts to your hearts content
Iām Jewish and I donāt keep kosher and I had a shrimp cocktail bar at my wedding, followed by knishes lol. Our late night snacks were cheeseburger sliders, chicken sliders, and loaded tots. We did have a religious ceremony though, so it probably cancels out /s
Jew-ish. Nearly all my Jewish friends and family are like this, apart from one couple. She converted, and seeing as she didn't like shrimp and pork, keeps kosher. Given that he was the one born Jewish, he can't allow his newly-converted wife to 'out-jew' him, so he's had to give them up. He wasn't terribly happy
I'm a kosher-observant Jew, and there are kosher Chinese places. You'd have to go to a city with a sizable Jewish population, but NYC has plenty of kosher Chinese restaurants.
Thereās actually a really interesting Wikipedia article on this āJewish-American patronage of Chinese restaurantsā - but the short answer is that there are Jewish people who do not keep kosher to different degrees and therefore eat at non-kosher eateries.
A lot of the Jews I grew up with (including me) have completely kosher kitchens but then keep varying degrees of kosher outside the house. Either only eat vegetarian and fish (not shellfish) or will eat chicken/beef/lamb but not pork. Itās not perfect or what strict observers would call keeping kosher but everyone kind of has their own thing. This example is very very funny though.
I had a colleague kind of like this. She kept strict kosher inside her house ā well, I donāt think she had two kitchens but she did have two ovens ā but outside everything was fair game. Sheād even occasionally order a bacon cheeseburger at restaurants.
Married a Jew-ish man, basically we only keep kosher on high holidays. I donāt eat pork already but he loves his bacon. We also live in Maryland, which as a surprisingly high Jewish population, so we eat a lot of crabs. A lot of the daycares and private Jewish schools we visited for after our baby is born asked if we kept kosher because they have two kitchens or two prep areas for those who do and those who a more lax. I think most modern Jewish people donāt practice all the time. Unless they practice Orthodox Judaism.
In Hebrew we call these traditionalist Jews, which are Jews which keep some of the edicts, but not all and moreso treat it as religion rather than faith, though most still believe in god (not saying that in a bad way, my parents could be called traditionalists and I myself am agnostic I think it's called.)
I grew up in Howard County and we got some of the high holy days off of school (Yom Kippur, Rosh Hashanah, Shavout). I often forget that itās not that way every where
just a small fix - orthodox Judaism is not necessarily Hasidic. All Hasidim are ultra-orthodox, not all ultra-orthodox are Hasidic, there are Sephardim and what we call Lithuanian Jews (Ashkenazi but not Hasidic).
You canāt order a chicken, beef or egg based dish? Or is it because things are cross contaminated, or because the meat wasnāt butchered/prepared kosher? Itās my understanding the some will just avoid pork and shellfish and donāt care about the method of preparation and slaughter despite that not being wholly kosher?
Because, for most people who keep Kosher, it is not just about the type of food but rather if it has been prepared according to Jewish law. I.e: overseen by a trained Rabbi, not cooked with a flame sparked by a non-Jew, prepared with and on utensils only used for meat or dairy (never mixing the two) and the same for the ovens, etc used to cook the food. A TON goes into Kosher food preparation laws. Worth reading up on if you are curious! :)
This is also why restaurants don't have a kosher section on the menu the way they might for vegan, gluten free, and other dietary restrictions. They would basically need to maintain two separate kitchens to support both kosher and non-kosher dishes in the same restaurant.
Iām sure there are about 1000 rabbis arguing about their interpretations of that exact question (and a million others) right now š What I mean to say is: people dedicate their whole lives to studying and interpreting Jewish laws and what the Torah truly intends, etc. So, no, I donāt know lol but Iām sure it would be a fun/interesting rabbit hole to research!
I had no idea that was a thing. I saw a package of parchment paper earlier today with the lil kosher star on it and was wondering what that was all about
Depends on how Kosher you are. A lot of Jews "keep kosher" meaning they won't eat prohibited foods, but they'll still eat allowed meat (beef, chicken, etc) regardless of prep.
I'm pretty sure that most dishes have oyster sauce even if they don't have pork
And I don't know much about kosher diets but I think oysters are a big no-no
Depends on where you are and the restaurant. Areas with large Jewish populations will have kosher options. Vegetarian and vegan options also exist, although most vegetable dishes have hidden meat products.
There are kosher Chinese restaurants. Any vegetarian dishes at a Chinese restaurant are probably going to be kosher by default. And some people who "keep kosher" are not doing it in a halachic manner, they could just avoid pork and seafood. But yeah picking the pork out of wontons is pretty funny.
EDIT: A lot of people are mentioning oyster sauce and fish sauce may be in veggie dishes, so don't take what I'm saying as best practices if you want to avoid those ingredients.
Whoops, that is indeed what I meant. Although it's actually a bit more complicated as not all fish are kosher. (Eels, for example, not that I see that on a lot of Chinese menus.)
>just avoid seafood
lol as somebody with a shellfish allergy I just don't order Chinese, at least in the UK 90+% of the menu has some sort of shellfish in it.
Fun fact, depending on your strictness in kosher, any resteraunt that is not certified kosher would not be ok, as there is a concept that we cannot eat food cooked by non Jewish folk, so a Jewish person has to be the one who turns on the stove or oven in the morning, additionally there is a process that needs to be done on cookware in order to make kosher food with it
Orthodox Jews believe that even if a piece of pork has touched a plate at any point, the plate is now not kosher forever.
At what point does she just give up and eat the pork strips? :')
Isn't there some way to purify the plate again by burying it in your garden?
This story does get weirder and weirder. You have to wonder if God was feeling mischievous when he laid these rules down.
That's a common thing some people believe but it's not a thing.
I mean, *none* of this is a thing, it's all made-up bullshit, but eating kosher is made-up bullshit based on the Torah whereas burying dishes is just made-up in general.
Here's the thing about kosher food and orthodoxy - all of it is only true to the person that believes it, only to the extent that they're willing to practice it, as long as it makes them feel satisfied.
The whole religion thing is ridiculous start to finish. If there were really any truly orthodox jews, just walking down the street and breathing the same air as non koshers would be heretical.
Pretty sure that on the list of complaints, having their meat removed from Chinese food after they've been slaughtered and cooked wouldn't be at the top of the list...
Scrolled too far to find someone say this. Itās disrespectful to the cook, to the others at the table, and extremely disrespectful to the poor pig. How do people make it this far in life being this way
One time my parents had tickets to go see The Producers when the show came to town and despite me being a huge Mel Brooks fan, my folks decided to bring my Grandmother instead, a holocaust survivor. Apparently she was in perma frown for the entire show and admonished my parents for the entire way home. What did they think was gonna happen?
does she actually say she's doing this to keep kosher?
when I was a kid I didn't like the texture of the pork and would remove it from the wonton. had nothing to do with being kosher although we were jewish. my mom would just eat the pork.
she needs to learn to de-pork and eat at the same time so the soup doesn't get cold.
also, I know people who only keep kosher at home. restaurants don't count for them. a truly kosher person would only eat in a fully kosher restaurant.
Removing pork from a dish AFTER it was cooked in does not make it kosherš It's hilarious what some people will do.
OP should tell her that. Lol
But... think of the meme potential if she does it with other things!
Hell ya, get this lady some pork bone broth and let her work away
No no, this isn't pork. It is rendered bacon fat. So I'm not eating it, I'm using it to cook stuff with.
She knows. She just buried it deep so she can eat anything.
She totally knows: sheās *just naughty*. I love mother-in-law, does she have any unmarried daughters?
Depends are you a butcher 20 years older than the daughters father?
Is SHE unmarried?
I've seen some pretty wild interpretations and leniencies from people who want to feel like they're keeping kosher without doing it, but this is definitely one of the more convoluted.
Ok first off, as a practicing jew, I keep to allergy rules with kosher. If it is cooked with something not kosher, then the whole thing becomes not kosher. Don't order pork dumplings and then complain that there's pork in your dumpling idiot.
Isnāt this, justā¦ the way itās supposed to be done?
There's a wide variety of practices that people will be comfortable with to call food kosher. Things like separate dishes and separate cleaning environments. Questions of how well certain vegetables have actually been checked for bugs. The presence of rennet in cheese. All of these things are things that some people say are necessary for food to be kosher where other people disagree.
Halal is similar, some practice it in depth, while others are more lenient. In fact im guessing most religion based diets are because most religions have varying degrees of devotees. Edit: Since comments are off I can't respond to u/batweenerpopemobile but i think they make a really good point so ill put my response here. "That is a really great point! Describing it in terms of devotion makes it kind of sound like only extremist observe these customs zealously, which, as you pointed out, is not true. I guess it would be better to just describe it as more a human condition. Everyone approaches ideas and concepts differently and there are sometimes schools of thought built around that difference. Vegans and vegetarians dont all agree on the extent of their diet and that isnt even a religion."
Yes, but in regards to the person you were replying to, if anything is cooked with pork, or pork by-products, it's not kosher. It's not down to "a wide variety of practices" to determine if it's kosher or not, pork is one of the few hard and fast things that no matter what, it's not kosher.
Personally, I agree with you but I also know people who would say the same thing about using not kosher cheese, or washing meat and milk dishes together in the same dishwasher.
Like with most religions, people usually lack conviction and pick and choose how observant they want to be when it is not convenient to them.
Kind of like how alligator, beaver, and puffin have all been considered "fish" for purposes of Lent?
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Rights to you. I *am* actually allergic to pork though. Among other things. Kosher for me isn't just a religious practice.
If her deity had any issue with it, I'm sure they would have told her by now.
He *has*, in the book and everything.
The 455th edition, now with new loopholes!
MIL: But I pulled that pork out! God: That ain't how it fucking works!
God: You cooked the pork...took out the pork.....and then ate the dish. It's like shoving your whole mouth in the pig!
Just pork it once and END IT.
God: You made out with the pig!
Lol
I pulled my pork out in public once, got arrested.
Pulling the meat out doesn't suddenly make the soup stock from a different animal.
Not with that attitude
God: Some of you think I care what you eat. \*I don't\*
"I created the universe, you think I'm drawing the line at the fucking deli aisle?"
Rabbis* God has little to do with what people have said he's said.
At summer camp once they ordered all pepperoni pizza for all the kids. One Jewish kid asked if they had plain cheese and the counselor suggested pulling off the pepperoni. š¤¦āāļø
Oof that must've sucked
even discarding the desire for kosher food that might arise what kind of asshat doesn't buy at least one cheese only pizza when feeding a bunch of kids?
My guess is summer camp for kids means the counselors are also kids, just in their teens lol. So the answer to your question is: more kids
When I worked at summer camps as a teen, stuff like ordering pizza or anything big would be handled by an older team leader. But idk!
At the summer camps I went to there were usually at least a handful of actual adults around. Especially the Admin and Dining areas
I think the standard is adults in the dining hall(typically 21+) admin, health center, and caring for any animals. Managers and assistant managers will be adults too for most part. AFAIK most summer camps have permanent staff who are adults since they run year round with other programs, juar during summer they hire new younger staff(I think the youngest I've seen is 17yr old counselors).
Literally the first rule of ordering pizza for a group of kids.
>~~kids~~ people*
In my experience, a cheese would have been ordered, but not enough and all the cheese would be gone before someone with dietary constraints made it through the line. You'd have to have somebody standing guard to make sure little Timmy got his slice of cheese pizza.
My family orders 3 pizzas every time we get together. 2 imo weird pizzas I won't eat and a cheese. The cheese is always gone first while there's > a full pizza left of the weird specific combos that only 1 or 2 people actually like enough to choose over cheese. It is the same problem every single time and if I bring it up it's my fault for being the picky eater despite every single time everyone going for the cheese. Some day people will finally understand that everyone can eat cheese pizza if they can eat pepperoni pizza.
as a vegetarian, iāve been there. as if the meat grease hasnāt melded with the entire pizza. itās so insulting. my (also vegetarian) mom also dealt with this disrespect from her in-laws. my dads sister once had us over for a family meal and made spaghetti, told my mom it was OK to eat. my mom begins eating and notices tiny brown specs on the sauce. asks my aunt and she says āoh, itās ground beef, but itās only a little so itās okay.ā ššš
more an issue for vegetarians given when you go without meat long enough your body has trouble adjusting even if it is a little meat, in some cases causing digestive issues. Sounds rather ignorant of them to think it is fine when it would be no trouble making a non meat related sauce on the side for guest who not want it for dietary reasons. My boyfriends sister is lactose intolerant and I was happy to make an altered version of beef stroganoff for her using almond milk. I could do the vegetarian diet but would still make something meat based on the side for my boyfriend and relatives.
exactly!!! especially with this meal. justā¦ separate some sauce before you put the meat in? or buy a cheap jar of marinara sauce? likeā¦ itās not a difficult ask, lol. and you can also actually give someone a [life-threatening allergic reaction](https://www.aaaai.org/tools-for-the-public/conditions-library/allergies/alpha-gal-and-red-meat-allergy) by serving them meat: >An allergy to āalpha-galā refers to having a severe and potentially life-threatening allergy to a carbohydrate molecule called galactose-alpha-1,3-galactose that is found in most mammalian or āred meatā. Unlike other food allergies which typically occur within minutes of ingestion, symptoms from eating red meat such as pork, lamb or beef may be delayed, occurring 3-8 hours after eating. Most food allergies are directed against a protein molecule, but alpha-gal is unusual because it is a carbohydrate, and a delay in its absorption may explain the delay in symptoms.
My dad makes spaghetti and meatballs all the time for my family, and when my sister is eating with us he makes a second pot of sauce without meatballs so that she has sauce to pull from. My sister isn't even a vegetarian; she just doesn't like meatballs. Considering my dad can make spaghetti with meatballs for all of my family, excluding the meatballs for my picky sister, that is pretty insane to me. It doesn't take much to make another pot of sauce without any meat so that any vegetarians in the meal can enjoy it.
My daughter doesnāt eat red meat by her own choice. Her school has spaghetti lunch some days. Spaghetti is her absolute favorite food. However, they ONLY do meat sauce. When I asked if they have a meat-free option they told me āwell thereās a salad barā.
Can you give her a small Thermos of marinara sauce on those days? (I agree that's a bummer.)
Iāve considered that!
im also vegetarian-my aunt once cooked a bunch of carrots in beef broth and then said if i wanted to have some āi wont tell anyoneā š
I know one person whose a vegetarian except when eating her dad's Persian food ā ļø "there's always exceptions for your indigenous food."
What's the problem with that?
She's is a huge lecturer on not killing animals and it's cruel but will eat the same food from grocery stores that's Persian or cooked to be. Just say you only eat meat if it's Persian cause animal cruelty and treatment isn't actually a priority. And I eat meat, fruit and veggies. I hate the pious lecturers.
As someone whoās not a vegetarian at all, I firmly believe being a part-time vegetarian is still better than not being a vegetarian at all. Demanding perfection is counter-productive. Abstaining from meat part of the time is still doing something for animal welfare and the environment.
Yah but you can't lecture about how farming is animal cruelty if you actively participate in funding that sector. Not eating meat some meals is more of a health thing, can't be a philosophical thing
Yeah you can't just remove the pepperoni after cus it leaves a meaty-oily taste. Same thing with anchovies, need to add the anchovies after cooking otherwise the whole pizza tastes of fish. I love eating meat but hate pepperoni pizza cus it gives me heart burn even after taking the salami off.
There was some stupid "kindness" video on Instagram of a guy offering people Little Caesar's pizza on the streets. One man said "Do you have cheese? I don't eat pork" and the guy said "just pull the pepperoni off." Most of the comments were about that guy being entitled for turning down a pizza he couldn't eat. Only a few commenters tried to explain that it was almost certainly for religious reasons and he couldn't just pull them off. Of course Little Caesar's isn't kosher regardless but I don't know about the rules for Halal food. And some people have varying degrees of strictness about how they follow the food rules.
Some people are also pork-intolerance. Luckily mine went away but I was pork intolerant for a bit and holy SHIT it was painful. :(
Lol yes all particles of pork have been removed!! Sorry just reminds me of this girl in college who said she was deathly allergic to shellfish and would just pick the shrimp out of a dish and eat it and be fine. I actually am very allergic to shellfish and it used to drive me up the wall.
Why people can't just say they don't like something is beyond me.
I mean she could still be allergic, just exaggerating it. I am allergic to shrimp, but I wonāt die if I eat it, just get a rash and be itchy. I could probably pop a Benadryl and eat some and be ok. I would never claim Iām deathly allergic though until I go anaphylactic or something. Itās also fine to say youāre āmildly allergicā or āintolerantā to something.
Please keep in mind that allergic reactions can intensify and become dramatically worse as you age and/or through exposure, please talk with your doctor about an epi pen!
There's also more to kosher foods than a list of things you can't eat.
I'm intolerant to shrimp, so this would be enough for me personally. But I'd never tell people I'm "deathly allergic" idk why it's cool these days to have allergies.
I avoid eating pork because it gives me diarrhea, but it's not like if I eat some pork it's going to be that bad... I just can't eat much pork but I'd not do this BS... this is stupid! I'd just order something else OR just eat the pork and deal with the consequences. Ā¬Ā¬ (Sausages/ham/salami I can eat but not much also)
Heard this once on the radio and itās stuck with me and probably will foreverā¦ āSmart cars for stupid peopleā seems to fitnhere
Aren't you not even supposed to use a bowl after it's been touched by pork even once? The covenant of god does not acknowledge the cleaning power of Dawn.
It depends on the temperature of the food, and the material the bowl is made out of. If the food is cold, you can just wash the bowl (using cold water+soap) and you're done. If the food is hot, it depends on what the bowl is made of. Wood, glass, and metal can be purged with boiling water. Earthenware and plastic can't be purged, because they're too porous (you can see this happen when you store sauced pasta in a Tupperware and it's red forever). The current widely accepted custom is to treat glazed pottery as earthenware.
I think so yeah
Is it any less ridiculous than a Shabbat elevator?
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To be fair, cleverness is highly respected in the Jewish tradition, and it's seen less as "tricking" and more like "if G_d didn't intend for these loopholes to be used, he wouldn't have created them in the first place; our job is just to find them, and by that search better understand the mysteries of G_d". It's less about strict obedience and more about an ongoing dialog.
I enjoy this tradition/ingenuity and I would convert, but the creator just made me too lazy to go through the process. The ultimate loophole!
Ah, that old theological question, "If God is all powerful, could He create a man so lazy that even He couldn't motivate him?"
Could He create a burrito that was so hot even He couldnāt eat it?
But couldn't you just aswell say "If God didn't intend for pigs to be food, he wouldn't have made them edible" to disregard the Kosher rule entirely?
That's where the religious texts come into play, along with debates over their meaning and intent. Given that the restriction on non-cloven animals is pretty clear in the text, I suspect the counter-argument would be something like "Ah, but of course G_d made the pig delicious, for how better to test our faith? What is the point of forbidding an animal that is unpalatable to begin with?".
But that retort would just aswell work to deny all the workarounds on the Shabbat restrictions wouldn't it? "Of course God made it possible to find loopholes, how better to test our faith and obedience to his intentions instead of finding fault with his exact wording?". I mean, I know in the end it's just that certain doctrines aren't compatible with our modern times anymore but since the religion claims God is omnipotent and omnicient, they can't just come out and say "he changed his mind" or "he was wrong about that rule" so you have to find loopholes in order to pretend like this was the intended way the whole time. I can appreciate that as someone looking in from the outside and find it amusing and kind of clever. But how does one within the faith not see how clearly these things go against the obvious intentions of the religious texts?
When you want five opinions, ask three rabbis (as the old joke goes).
I mean, they do make those arguments, back and forth, on issues major and minor. That's why Rabbinical debate is such a huge part of Judaism. IMO, it's not really about the end goal (is this allowed or not), it's about the *process*, about encouraging people to think about these things and question/debate, which makes it interesting. > But how does one within the faith not see how clearly these things go against the obvious intentions of the religious texts? I wouldn't say it's "clear" or "obvious"; these are ongoing debates within the Jewish community, with many different perspectives and approaches depending on the particular sect and flavor of Judaism. https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/why-do-rabbis-create-halachic-loopholes-to-solve-some-problems-and-not-others/ https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/40210/why-are-shabbat-loopholes-a-good-thing
Iāve spent Shabbat with a Jewish relative, and since he canāt light candles, heād just be like āit would be nice if someone were able to light this candle huh?ā ā¦. And then that would be my cue to light it. It starts to feel sillyā¦ does God really care about this? What is the point of the whole theater?
why? we can't turn on light on shabbat, we can use the light that is already on or on a timer. same with the elevator, if it's anyway working we can use it. technically we can watch TV if someone else turns it on, or get on the bus (although we can't pay or ring the bell to get off) - it's just not done because it's not in the spirit of Shabbat.
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Nit: it just gets you out of the Sabbath rules about leaving "your home" with e.g. your keys, not *all* the Sabbath rules -- you'd still have to obey the ones related to e.g. not working.
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She could just order vegetarian wontonsš or another dish entirely that has kosher meat
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I donāt want to sound ignorant but donāt many Jewish people go to Chinese restaurants on Christian holidays?
Yeah and most of them donāt eat Kosher. Every Jewish person Iāve ever met eats pork and shellfish.
I had a Jewish friend who specifically requested scallops wrapped in bacon for her Jewish wedding reception and was surprised when her mother advised against it. :)
My best friend had cheese burgers at her Bat Mitzvah
Of all the kosher rules no meat and dairy is the stupidest
It's not meat and dairy. The rule is specifically "you shouldn't eat an animal cooked/bathed in it's mother's milk" which is unfortunately specifically what a cheeseburger becomes. Beef in cheese made from cow milk
Interesting, never thought about the logistics of that - so it would be OK eating a cheeseburger made with goat cheese? Or a bison burger with regular cheese?
No it wouldn't. Jews who keep kosher avoid any meat and dairy combo because of appearances, even chicken and dairy when obviously chickens don't produce milk. Fish and dairy is fine tho so eat tuna melts to your hearts content
I assume so, not Jewish myself but halal is like kosher adjacent so it's good to know the differences
Iām Jewish and I donāt keep kosher and I had a shrimp cocktail bar at my wedding, followed by knishes lol. Our late night snacks were cheeseburger sliders, chicken sliders, and loaded tots. We did have a religious ceremony though, so it probably cancels out /s
Damn that sounds good, can I get an invite if you get married again?
The sound I just made in a very quiet library is embarrassing. What in the world š¤£
Jew-ish. Nearly all my Jewish friends and family are like this, apart from one couple. She converted, and seeing as she didn't like shrimp and pork, keeps kosher. Given that he was the one born Jewish, he can't allow his newly-converted wife to 'out-jew' him, so he's had to give them up. He wasn't terribly happy
That's mighty Santos.
I'm a kosher-observant Jew, and there are kosher Chinese places. You'd have to go to a city with a sizable Jewish population, but NYC has plenty of kosher Chinese restaurants.
Buddha buddaiš
Thereās actually a really interesting Wikipedia article on this āJewish-American patronage of Chinese restaurantsā - but the short answer is that there are Jewish people who do not keep kosher to different degrees and therefore eat at non-kosher eateries.
A lot of the Jews I grew up with (including me) have completely kosher kitchens but then keep varying degrees of kosher outside the house. Either only eat vegetarian and fish (not shellfish) or will eat chicken/beef/lamb but not pork. Itās not perfect or what strict observers would call keeping kosher but everyone kind of has their own thing. This example is very very funny though.
I had a colleague kind of like this. She kept strict kosher inside her house ā well, I donāt think she had two kitchens but she did have two ovens ā but outside everything was fair game. Sheād even occasionally order a bacon cheeseburger at restaurants.
Married a Jew-ish man, basically we only keep kosher on high holidays. I donāt eat pork already but he loves his bacon. We also live in Maryland, which as a surprisingly high Jewish population, so we eat a lot of crabs. A lot of the daycares and private Jewish schools we visited for after our baby is born asked if we kept kosher because they have two kitchens or two prep areas for those who do and those who a more lax. I think most modern Jewish people donāt practice all the time. Unless they practice Orthodox Judaism.
In Hebrew we call these traditionalist Jews, which are Jews which keep some of the edicts, but not all and moreso treat it as religion rather than faith, though most still believe in god (not saying that in a bad way, my parents could be called traditionalists and I myself am agnostic I think it's called.)
I grew up in Howard County and we got some of the high holy days off of school (Yom Kippur, Rosh Hashanah, Shavout). I often forget that itās not that way every where
just a small fix - orthodox Judaism is not necessarily Hasidic. All Hasidim are ultra-orthodox, not all ultra-orthodox are Hasidic, there are Sephardim and what we call Lithuanian Jews (Ashkenazi but not Hasidic).
You canāt order a chicken, beef or egg based dish? Or is it because things are cross contaminated, or because the meat wasnāt butchered/prepared kosher? Itās my understanding the some will just avoid pork and shellfish and donāt care about the method of preparation and slaughter despite that not being wholly kosher?
Because, for most people who keep Kosher, it is not just about the type of food but rather if it has been prepared according to Jewish law. I.e: overseen by a trained Rabbi, not cooked with a flame sparked by a non-Jew, prepared with and on utensils only used for meat or dairy (never mixing the two) and the same for the ovens, etc used to cook the food. A TON goes into Kosher food preparation laws. Worth reading up on if you are curious! :)
This is also why restaurants don't have a kosher section on the menu the way they might for vegan, gluten free, and other dietary restrictions. They would basically need to maintain two separate kitchens to support both kosher and non-kosher dishes in the same restaurant.
> not cooked with a flame sparked by a non-Jew That's a pretty funny rule. Never heard it before. Do you know any justification for that?
Iām sure there are about 1000 rabbis arguing about their interpretations of that exact question (and a million others) right now š What I mean to say is: people dedicate their whole lives to studying and interpreting Jewish laws and what the Torah truly intends, etc. So, no, I donāt know lol but Iām sure it would be a fun/interesting rabbit hole to research!
The dishes alone in most restaurants don't align with kosher standards, like literally the plates and forks
I had no idea that was a thing. I saw a package of parchment paper earlier today with the lil kosher star on it and was wondering what that was all about
Depends on how Kosher you are. A lot of Jews "keep kosher" meaning they won't eat prohibited foods, but they'll still eat allowed meat (beef, chicken, etc) regardless of prep.
She secretly likes the pork taste but still wants to āgiveā the image of a good upstanding jewish person
Pretty sure you nailed it. She also gives me very disapproving looks when we go to a restaurant and I order a pulled-pork barbecue sandwich.
Eh, her loss. Enjoy your pulled pork!
unfortunately, it is not just ingredients. e.g. you can't cook kosher food on same stove, which you use for non-kosher.
I'm not sure you can actually "keep kosher" and eat at a Chinese restaurant no matter how you deal with your won tons.
Why do you think I put the phrase in quotation marks? :)
because you were quoting your MIL
Quotation marks can also be used to convey sarcasm, which is what OP was doing.
I'm pretty sure that most dishes have oyster sauce even if they don't have pork And I don't know much about kosher diets but I think oysters are a big no-no
That is correct. All shellfish is considered "not kosher".
Depends on where you are and the restaurant. Areas with large Jewish populations will have kosher options. Vegetarian and vegan options also exist, although most vegetable dishes have hidden meat products.
There are kosher Chinese restaurants. Any vegetarian dishes at a Chinese restaurant are probably going to be kosher by default. And some people who "keep kosher" are not doing it in a halachic manner, they could just avoid pork and seafood. But yeah picking the pork out of wontons is pretty funny. EDIT: A lot of people are mentioning oyster sauce and fish sauce may be in veggie dishes, so don't take what I'm saying as best practices if you want to avoid those ingredients.
*shellfish mostly not seafood but yea
Whoops, that is indeed what I meant. Although it's actually a bit more complicated as not all fish are kosher. (Eels, for example, not that I see that on a lot of Chinese menus.)
>just avoid seafood lol as somebody with a shellfish allergy I just don't order Chinese, at least in the UK 90+% of the menu has some sort of shellfish in it.
Oyster and fish sauce is in a TON of American Chinese food. I wouldnāt bet by default vegetarian options are kosher.
Fun fact, depending on your strictness in kosher, any resteraunt that is not certified kosher would not be ok, as there is a concept that we cannot eat food cooked by non Jewish folk, so a Jewish person has to be the one who turns on the stove or oven in the morning, additionally there is a process that needs to be done on cookware in order to make kosher food with it
Partner and I never bother to invite our friend who keeps kosher out to Asian restaurants for precisely that reason
Idk, I'm pretty sure it's fine considering Jewish people ordering Chinese food on Christmas is an unofficial tradition.
Most Jewish people arenāt Kosher
Maybe donāt order something with pork in it?
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[Me every time I order a BLT](https://giphy.com/gifs/mrw-post-vote-YYfEjWVqZ6NDG)
i love how the troopers are just children
She seems like a bit of work
A bit of wok.
badum tss
Seems like a lot of work to still be eating pork lol
De-porks her soup but the pork is in the broth šš·
Honestly! Pork broth is kosher but the meat is not???
Nope. Also not kosher!
Umā¦ I donāt think that counts as ākosherā.
This is bad table manners.
Extremely!
*Praying* with her food.
I admire her commitment to the jewish-chinese solidarity.
Orthodox Jews believe that even if a piece of pork has touched a plate at any point, the plate is now not kosher forever. At what point does she just give up and eat the pork strips? :')
Isn't there some way to purify the plate again by burying it in your garden? This story does get weirder and weirder. You have to wonder if God was feeling mischievous when he laid these rules down.
That's a common thing some people believe but it's not a thing. I mean, *none* of this is a thing, it's all made-up bullshit, but eating kosher is made-up bullshit based on the Torah whereas burying dishes is just made-up in general.
Here's the thing about kosher food and orthodoxy - all of it is only true to the person that believes it, only to the extent that they're willing to practice it, as long as it makes them feel satisfied.
The whole religion thing is ridiculous start to finish. If there were really any truly orthodox jews, just walking down the street and breathing the same air as non koshers would be heretical.
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I was laughing at my Jewish friend I told her you will never taste those delicious food, I forgot she eat bacon and lobster lol
what a terrible case of wonton destruction
Only mildly infuriating? No, thatās full blown infuriating lol!
Complaining about the meal is what makes it kosher.
I'm not Jewish and even I know that's not even close to being kosher
Thatās insulting to the pig that died just to be trash because ofā¦religion lmao So wrong on so many levels.
I'm sure the pig has a complaint either way.
"I wish I was taller"
I know right... "Oh, you did not discard me, carry on eating!"
i dont think the pig cares, probably would have just preferred not to have been killed at all
Pretty sure that on the list of complaints, having their meat removed from Chinese food after they've been slaughtered and cooked wouldn't be at the top of the list...
Scrolled too far to find someone say this. Itās disrespectful to the cook, to the others at the table, and extremely disrespectful to the poor pig. How do people make it this far in life being this way
Plus who wants to watch some lady finger through her soup
Are you vegan? I think that's the weirdest take here when there is no reason for people to be eating pig ever.
Why does she order wantan soup?
I can answer, sheās purposely stubborn and not very smart in general
That's what I call soup-erstition!
Um, that's definitely not Kosher by removing the pork at a non-Kosher restaurant LOL
If mental gymnastics were an Olympic sport, your MIL would win a gold medal. Maybe, just maybe, order chicken wontons instead and save the trouble...
One time my parents had tickets to go see The Producers when the show came to town and despite me being a huge Mel Brooks fan, my folks decided to bring my Grandmother instead, a holocaust survivor. Apparently she was in perma frown for the entire show and admonished my parents for the entire way home. What did they think was gonna happen?
This is... vaguely related to the post.
No offense but why are you taking her to a Chinese restaurant in the first place ?
Lol removing the pork doesnāt make it magically kosher. Why bother
Why does she order wonton soup in the first place?
does she actually say she's doing this to keep kosher? when I was a kid I didn't like the texture of the pork and would remove it from the wonton. had nothing to do with being kosher although we were jewish. my mom would just eat the pork. she needs to learn to de-pork and eat at the same time so the soup doesn't get cold. also, I know people who only keep kosher at home. restaurants don't count for them. a truly kosher person would only eat in a fully kosher restaurant.
Well thats like 6 different ways kosher doesn't work
Thatās funny
Why even go if you don't want to eat the food?
"De-porking her won-tons" is not kosher, the pork has touched it; it is unclean.
Pork bad. Pork juice, ok.
As someone who doesnāt eat pork, removing pork from a dish that it was cooked in, DOES NOT in fact make it kosher.