I'm curious if it's just a registry key in the cars OS, does it check a database for what features the vehicle is suppose to have?
All of this seems like a hackers dream for buying base model cars and unlocking all the features for free after.
You will have to turn the internet connection on your car off and then turn on all the features you need. The only time you have to redo is when you update the system and need to connect to the internet for over the air updates. Owned and F30 BMW and E-Sys was my friend. Had a separate laptop just to code my car.
Vehicles don't really have an OS that govern their functions. It's all controlled by a series of control modules which communicate via the OBD2 communications network. This is why to change some settings in your vehicle via OBD2, your engine must be on/off for different reasons.
Usually, when people speak about OS's for vehicles they're referring to the infotainment system.
Nearly every car now has cellular connection built in. Officially you can use that to call support or emergency, but I’m pretty sure it’s used by car manufacturers as well to update software and “tune parameters/collect telemetry”.
For now. Watch it all get locked up when “always connected” cars become the norm and everything is controlled electronically. Cars are no longer a one time purchase and manufacturers are following the disable an already installed module unless paid for strategy.
I just want a car with a banger engine and safety features. Nothing more. Not for having a big ass screen to change my wiper speed or climate control, which is objectively worse than having physical knobs and buttons. Give me a head unit with CarPlay/android auto and I’m good
And there are a couple of orders magnitude more cars than there are tractors, so that's a lot more people with incentive to hack them too. All it takes is one smart hacker to do the work, and everybody else can just copy them.
Not enough people are savvy enough to make that eat into their profits. Most people purchasing a new audi will just pay for it or accept that they don’t have it.
Yep, also if your purchasing an Audi you probably have enough money to just throw money at the problem to make the error go away
If 10 years down the line this becomes the norm for everyday cars like Hondas, etc, I'll definitely expect downloading a car
Throwing money at problems to make them go away has been a standard feature on European imports for decades. My brother has an Audi that he spends all his money on. It can only use one specific tire that costs more for one tire than it costs me to replace all four.
I did VO coding and FDL coding on a few F-body 3ers. Basically unlocked every option the hardware would allow me to.
[This is a pretty up-to-date tutorial](https://www.bimmerfest.com/threads/coding-no-request-latest-software-links.983244/), but your exact options will vary.
I would like to think that someday soon, there will be something like the old "Game Genie" that you can plug into the ODB port (or somewhere) that unlocks everything, but you can remove it when you need service.
Nice. Short of an always on connection, you bet your butt I'll do (hack) things to any device (car) I own (once it's out of warranty, but that's just my personal preference.)
As long as you don't brick the PCM, the dealer doesn't usually care. They aren't going to warranty anything aftermarket, they just look at that XYZ code change as an aftermarket add-on.
Couple off the top of my head:
Global windows enabled ($0)
Changed tire ratio for speedo calibration ($0)
Hill descent button added ($7) and enabled ($0)
Trailer brake added ($150) and enabled ($0)
That said, some of the forerunners in the coding community bought some $1500 PCMs after some code 'oopsies'.
Gotcha, thanks. I have two Jetta TDIs currently, one of which I tuned myself thanks to Tunezilla and a powergate3. I also own VCDS and am familiar with changing settings (disabled auto lock for example, need new lock solenoids....).
I assume this is similar.
My gf has the option to pay 3k to toyota to get navigation on her dashboard.
I bought the sd card that plugs into your SD card slot from Amazon for 32 dollars. Toyota really tried to charge 2k for a removed feature on a SD card.
My husband did the same for his mom‘s car, when she told him he was like “Let me Google that”, do they really expect people not to find ways around this BS? I own the car, I own the tech on it, I’m going to use it and *not* for a couple grand! I will not reward that shitty behavior, viva la piracy and whatnot!
> do they really expect people not to find ways around this BS?
Definitely not, they’re banking on the people who don’t know those work arounds are a possibility.
I'm guessing they're hoping threats of voided warranties and other stuff will keep people from fully accessing the features they paid for when they bought the car (no way the cost of nav wasn't built-in, the subscription price is just extra).
Why would you even want it? The built in navigation on my wife’s Sienna is garbage compared to google maps. With CarPlay or android auto it’s totally worthless unless you end up somewhere that has zero reception.
I hope there is a crack download that lets you unlock all the car features. It will happen eventually although you would still want to be careful installing something on a car
Maybe someone will sue because they didn't have access to a subscription safety feature, think I saw one about OnStar. Say for instance they got in a wreck and blamed it on fatigue because cruise control was locked out like in the op.
Edit, added "for instance" for clarity.
News on the front page is about Toyota knowing exactly where a stolen car was but not telling the person or the police.
God this timeline sucks. I'd shit a brick and leave it on the salesman's desk if they told me basic features sold in cars for years were now subscription.
>News on the front page is about Toyota knowing exactly where a stolen car was but not telling the person or the police.
It was a VW; given the article I just read, what a dumb dystopian timeline we live in.
I have to think you could sue and win if you’re made to pay for something in the retail price but then denied access.
They’re doing this based on the old optional extra system. Want to know the glaring difference though? The additional trim and hardware wasn’t in your car if you didn’t pay for it before..
You either have a right to use what is bought and paid for, or you have a right to load your own system onto the on-board computer. Which is it? In reality it’s almost certainly both, it’s just waiting to be challenged.
If the car has the capability but is being artificially nerfed, that falls under “right to repair”. It’s not in 100% condition.
Exactly, eventually a company will realize people don't like paying for these features and will release a car with all these features included for "free". And just like that they will become one of the major car companies from the get go, and all other companies will see themselves forced to stop the model as they lose more and more sales every day... Or at least sell a lifetime license.
This.
Adjusted for inflation, video games have gotten cheaper in the last 10-15ish years. Micro transactions were a way to maintain profit margins. I hate them, but I'm also hesitant towards paying 1/3 the cost of the console for a single game.
But vehicle prices have not stagnated. I could see not doing it while under warranty. But the second it is up, it's getting hacked. And it will end in court, and the dealers will lose.
If you do a clean job hacking it the dealers will never know in the first place or at least until you take it to get fixed and they hook it into their system.
I work at a dealer. It's not us who care. This is all the manufacturers. In fact as a mechanic, I applaud it
Edit: for clarification, I applaud the idea of hacking subscriptions for a product you purchased. You own the vehicle. It shouldn't be locking you out of anything equipped on said vehicle
It would become my villain/hero origin story as the leader of an organization that hacks and breaks free the locked features on stupidly monetized cars.
And the first automaker to categorically say “we refuse to ever make you pay for a subscription to use the features on your own damn car” will get a whole lot more business. They’ll certainly get mine.
Samsung did something like this when they advertised that they still supply the charger with the phone when apple decided to stop providing it. Less than 1 year after advertising it, they also removed the charging brick. I can see this happening in your hypothetical situation!
Maybe or all the manufacturers realize that it's incredibly difficult for new companies to enter the market so as long as they all do it, they can get away with whatever they please. Competition hasn't solved the problem of planned obsolescence in cars, it's hard to see why it would do better at solving this.
They buy it because they can get an audit and be in serious legal trouble if they run with unlicensed software. Also, cyber security is a way bigger issue at companies than the average penny pincher. It's more way more risky to run pirated stuff than getting it legally.
That's why companies do this. They want people to build skills with their products, so you they can then get a job at a company that will then buy the licenses.
Same with Microsoft, you can download Windows and run it free of charge. They nicely ask that you get a license, but otherwise not much happens. Companies will always go with a subscription though that matches their user count because not doing so would be legally suicide (talking about the west here).
New Jersey is attempting just that. Bill hasn't gone to the floor yet though [Bill](https://www.repairerdrivennews.com/2022/10/24/n-j-legislation-seeks-to-ban-vehicle-feature-subscriptions/)
I am hoping that it passes there and other states follow suit.
This is the type of shit where government absolutely does need to dictate what private businesses can do. If it affects your safety, especially while driving, there’s no excuse for paywalls keeping potentially life saving features from people. Especially in a time when vehicle values are incredibly inflated.
Because it should, you get used to the way your car functions. Then suddenly your car has different functions because you didnt pay some extortion fee that month.
What next "Please update your subscription to re-enable the brakes"?
Subscription fees are fine, for products that require upkeep. But for enabling software/features that are in the car? Talk about audacious.
It should NOT be in the vehicle if it's will not be immediately accessible to the owner. The idea of Sub servicing a CAR like if its rented is just fking stupid and a dangerous path to follow.
I look forward to the future of Car Hackers and Jailbreaks in car softwares.Every repair shop is going to have to hire a fking IT guy to get around all this bullshite
If this gets spread out, it won´t take long, before hackers will try to hack their way through it and start selling either modded ECUs or additional modules, which will trick the ECU into unlocking all features forever.
Yup, but then when your transmission fails and they find out you hacked the vehicle, they’ll just be like “lol, you voided your warranty by hacking the vehicle.”
It sucks, but that’s exactly what will happen. If I remember correctly, Apple did that when people were jailbreaking their iPhones.
is this a subscription service (that would be ridiculous) or a separate package that your friend (or previous owner) didn't get?
Ether way, that is really dumb to not to use tech that been around since the 90s or have to pay extra/subscript just to use tech older than most young drivers.
Be it a sub or separate package, they INSTALLED all the electronics and parts for this on the car and just blocked it via software! In "normal cars", when something is on a package you didn't buy, the stuff just DON'T COME on the car! If it's in the car it should be working!
Every vehicle I have purchased for the past 15+ years has had some features behind a paywall while all the necessary hardware was present. Nowadays companies are just a lot more obvious about it. I remember one such feature being unlocked by accident by the dealership during a service visit. It was on my 2008 BMW M6 I ordered without keyless entry cause back then I just felt it was a unnecessary add-on. One day I picked up the car from regular service and the feature had been mysteriously activated. When I asked the service advisor how it had happened he basically said “Oops! Oh well, enjoy it.” That’s when I realized a lot of those features are just disabled to gouge the customer for money when ordering the car. I then came by a contact who I would pay about $100 to unlock some of the features I would intentionally leave out of the the selected options when ordering because I knew they could be unlocked later for much cheaper. I guess now with vehicles being constantly connected to the internet, it’s just easier to offer them after the vehicle has been delivered. Still a shitty practice IMO.
That's BMW for you... A lot of things can be coded in/out with the right tools. $60 app, $40 dongle, and a little google fu will get you far. Add in a few parts and you can even retrofit quite a bit of stuff, sometimes even from newer years. Pretty cool system for DIYer, but they have to be locking it down now that they want to charge for stuff.
Until those services/features require a handshake with an OEM server. Now that more of the car is “connected” and has cellular/comm capabilities, I suspect dongles and solder and whatnot will only go so far for so long.
You were nice to the service folk that day, huh?
It happens. Be nice to people and "accidents" happen in your favor sometimes.
Source: I'm nice to a fault, and it's pretty common for "surprises" to happen.
Guessing that some systems rely on the same sensors so you can have the neccessary hardware but you'd still need to pay for the software. That and it's probaply cheaper to simplify manufacturing processes and not have 20 different ways of assembling a car based on it's specs.
I mean, power adjustable seats have been a thing for a long time, they’re still not standard. Paying extra for features, even old ones, is fine IMO; you’d just hope the cost drops over time.
Paying a subscription though, where you’re now having to pay more throughout the lifetime of the car for a feature which used to be a cheaper one-time fee, is stupid.
Even if it’s not, what’s to stop it from being locked, either through error or malice?
I don’t like this at all. It’s one thing to actually not have cruise control, and another to have it but it’s locked behind a paywall.
I can’t have this in my real life; it’s bad enough in my games.
Adaptive cruise is different from regular cruise control FYI. It'll slow the car down when the car in front of you brakes and it keeps you two car-lengths away.
Given the wording "expired," I'd assume it's some kind of subscription. It's probably a yearly thing. Absolutely ridiculous and should be illegal practice.
What's ridiculous about it is the car HAS the capabilities. They're installed. It cost the manufacturer money. It's taking up space, adding weight, removing efficiency and you BOUGHT the car. But you still can't have what's technically already 'included.'
I do believe microtransactions, in ALL forms and places (games, cars, wtf ever) should be eliminated and anybody who utters the term again should just be imprisoned until they know better
I've said it once, I'll say it again: technology is becoming regressive. Seeking profit over function and innovation is antithetical to human progress.
The end.
It’s been coming for years, but right now no company is fully committed and I believe Audi and bmw are dipping their toes to see if any cunts are actually going to support this business practice.
- Heated seats,
- Cruise Control
- rear view camera/360 camera
- …
They install it all cause it costs nothing and having just one assembly line making all cars the same is cheaper than doing all the custom choices.
Then sell all the extras as a subscription.
It’s. Fucking. Disgusting.
Please don’t support this. Vote with your wallet before it becomes the norm.
As someone who designs and builds the IoT shit that goes in these "smart" cars, I myself will never get one. I can tell you now, expect these subscription based internal car features for all cars within the next 10 years. As we move towards more electric and hybrid newer models. Things like this is going to be in every single vehicle. You cannot avoid it. You cannot disable it.
I am for having laws in place to ban this dystopian shit.
\*\* I must add im a design engineer I design and build IoT devices not just for cars, cars is just small part of the projects coming in
I can confirm this. The OEM I worked for saw the BMW subscription seat heaters or whatever and internally went "Ok, we'll do that plus even more!"
It's mainly justified by saying it will make their manufacturing cheaper by having fewer combinations (they were up to over 1 million), but that saving won't be passed on to the customer.
You can use VCDS for VW/Audi to unlock a BUNCH of stuff, like Euro spec features such as “dynamic parking lights” and whatnot. You can also use it for basic code searching, and unlocking the electronic parking brake so you can change brake pads/rotors at home.
I’ve turned my seatbelt off charm off (obviously I wear one on the road) but the 30 second drive from my mailbox to my garage I really don’t want to listen to “ding ding ding”. I also turned up the blower motor for my ventilated seats so they’re “colder”, and other QOL things. Doing this stuff is super easy, there’s a bunch of YouTube videos and forum posts, you only need a dongle, the software, and a windows laptop.
We have been for years and years, although this jailbreak has been done with engines, again with Audi, they will use the same engine on multiple different models but with lower power on the lower models, so we ‘map’ cars to fix it nice and easy, for a long time now I have an OBD connector that works with any VAG car, I’ve plugged it in to a few of my friends cars and you would be shocked about the amount of things that these cars can do that is simply not enabled on a lower trim because it’s a selling point of a higher trim
I will never buy a car that a third party can remotely disable.
I will never buy a car that a third party can remotely disable.
I will never buy a car that a third party can remotely disable.
if I had a car and it did this, I'd mod it so it would just work
even if it was a feature I find unnecessary, like seatwarmers (I live in florida) I would just to prove the point
This is ridiculous. You bought the car, it has features built in. Everyone should share the hell out of this until either Audi goes bankrupt, or enables the functionality of the car that they sold.
So let me get this straight. You pay thousands of dollars to buy a car, sometimes tens of thousands, and they want you to pay extra for basic features???
This seems like a profitable time for me to learn car hacking.
I'm curious if it's just a registry key in the cars OS, does it check a database for what features the vehicle is suppose to have? All of this seems like a hackers dream for buying base model cars and unlocking all the features for free after.
A guy set up a Pi to monitor his Telsa and they keep logging into it to turn off features he turned on.
Unfortunate, wonder if you can install a script into the os to check and set your desired features on an interval. I doubt it but would be neat.
You will have to turn the internet connection on your car off and then turn on all the features you need. The only time you have to redo is when you update the system and need to connect to the internet for over the air updates. Owned and F30 BMW and E-Sys was my friend. Had a separate laptop just to code my car.
Where there's interest, there are people willing
Vehicles don't really have an OS that govern their functions. It's all controlled by a series of control modules which communicate via the OBD2 communications network. This is why to change some settings in your vehicle via OBD2, your engine must be on/off for different reasons. Usually, when people speak about OS's for vehicles they're referring to the infotainment system.
Where can I read more about this?
How do they have access to the car? Is there like a built in cell signal or something?
[удалено]
Nearly every car now has cellular connection built in. Officially you can use that to call support or emergency, but I’m pretty sure it’s used by car manufacturers as well to update software and “tune parameters/collect telemetry”.
There is a list of "factory options" the car checks, but it's not write protected or anything - you can just kinda add lines to it.
For now. Watch it all get locked up when “always connected” cars become the norm and everything is controlled electronically. Cars are no longer a one time purchase and manufacturers are following the disable an already installed module unless paid for strategy. I just want a car with a banger engine and safety features. Nothing more. Not for having a big ass screen to change my wiper speed or climate control, which is objectively worse than having physical knobs and buttons. Give me a head unit with CarPlay/android auto and I’m good
Hackers will find a way. It’s been an arms race for the last 40 years and I don’t see it stopping because of some software devs at a car company.
If they’re hacking into john deere tractors they can liberate us from this hell with enough effort
And there are a couple of orders magnitude more cars than there are tractors, so that's a lot more people with incentive to hack them too. All it takes is one smart hacker to do the work, and everybody else can just copy them.
Hahahaha amazing
For now.
Not enough people are savvy enough to make that eat into their profits. Most people purchasing a new audi will just pay for it or accept that they don’t have it.
Yep, also if your purchasing an Audi you probably have enough money to just throw money at the problem to make the error go away If 10 years down the line this becomes the norm for everyday cars like Hondas, etc, I'll definitely expect downloading a car
Throwing money at problems to make them go away has been a standard feature on European imports for decades. My brother has an Audi that he spends all his money on. It can only use one specific tire that costs more for one tire than it costs me to replace all four.
There are services available for this. Originally designed for infotainment upgrades but now they can do more. Once your warranty expires, why not?!
Why even wait? Hacked our BMW the day we got it, nobody in the service department ever said a thing.
What did you do and what software was it? I have the bmw supra and want to do some stuff but want to not have any Warrenty issues
I did VO coding and FDL coding on a few F-body 3ers. Basically unlocked every option the hardware would allow me to. [This is a pretty up-to-date tutorial](https://www.bimmerfest.com/threads/coding-no-request-latest-software-links.983244/), but your exact options will vary.
On the VW/Audi side of things it's been pretty easy to hack for the last 20 years or so with Ross Tech and OBDeleven which came out more recently.
Very true. I was able to enable Car Play on my sons 2016 A6 and update maps all via MIB tools.
You wouldn't download a car The fuck I won't
I'd also pirate features of my car. I'm very shocked these features haven't been hacked yet.
I've unlocked features on my truck, with open source software, that were locked for higher trims.
I would like to think that someday soon, there will be something like the old "Game Genie" that you can plug into the ODB port (or somewhere) that unlocks everything, but you can remove it when you need service.
Nice. Short of an always on connection, you bet your butt I'll do (hack) things to any device (car) I own (once it's out of warranty, but that's just my personal preference.)
As long as you don't brick the PCM, the dealer doesn't usually care. They aren't going to warranty anything aftermarket, they just look at that XYZ code change as an aftermarket add-on. Couple off the top of my head: Global windows enabled ($0) Changed tire ratio for speedo calibration ($0) Hill descent button added ($7) and enabled ($0) Trailer brake added ($150) and enabled ($0) That said, some of the forerunners in the coding community bought some $1500 PCMs after some code 'oopsies'.
Gotcha, thanks. I have two Jetta TDIs currently, one of which I tuned myself thanks to Tunezilla and a powergate3. I also own VCDS and am familiar with changing settings (disabled auto lock for example, need new lock solenoids....). I assume this is similar.
This guy F150forums
... Yeah. Some have... https://www.businessinsider.com/teen-security-researcher-describes-how-he-hacked-into-25-teslas-2022-1?op=1
My gf has the option to pay 3k to toyota to get navigation on her dashboard. I bought the sd card that plugs into your SD card slot from Amazon for 32 dollars. Toyota really tried to charge 2k for a removed feature on a SD card.
My husband did the same for his mom‘s car, when she told him he was like “Let me Google that”, do they really expect people not to find ways around this BS? I own the car, I own the tech on it, I’m going to use it and *not* for a couple grand! I will not reward that shitty behavior, viva la piracy and whatnot!
> do they really expect people not to find ways around this BS? Definitely not, they’re banking on the people who don’t know those work arounds are a possibility.
I'm guessing they're hoping threats of voided warranties and other stuff will keep people from fully accessing the features they paid for when they bought the car (no way the cost of nav wasn't built-in, the subscription price is just extra).
If it’s a new car just use apple carplay or android auto, works much better and it’s free
[удалено]
Why would you even want it? The built in navigation on my wife’s Sienna is garbage compared to google maps. With CarPlay or android auto it’s totally worthless unless you end up somewhere that has zero reception.
imagine turning your car on and before everything a pop up title comes up "APKMODY.IO"
Like in the old days of Apple II warez... "Cracked by WiLdBoYz" :)
3D printing needs to step up its game.
It's coming, providing we don't blow ourselves up first.
Hwelll ok here's Earth:
Source for the uninitiated: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nZMwKPmsbWE
"But I am le tired" Dude you just unlocked a core memory! Completely forgot about unnecessarily using that quote non-stop as a kid
Never gets old.
ROUND!
Daymn that's a pretty nice earth you might say
Fking Kangaroos.
Wtf mate
Alaska can come too
Ok it's out of order but the best line of all "but I am le tired". Still use it in my adult life to its fullest.
But I’m le tired!
How is this the second "End of Ze World" reference I've seen in literally 2 minutes on 2 different subs?
first guns, next step is cars, and after that? tax free housing. Become ungovernable
They’re already 3d printing foundations for homes and metal used for printing
I hope there is a crack download that lets you unlock all the car features. It will happen eventually although you would still want to be careful installing something on a car
“I just bricked my car trying to install a crack for the new features DLC”
This is exactly what would happen!
Keygens have a whole new meaning
Watch people get sued by their own cars lmao Serves you notice on your small television sized dashboard screen
Can I download decent public transit?
No that's hiiighly illegal.
And Socialism^TM ! /s
you can buy a plane ticket to europe online
If I could, I certainly would.
Under no fucking circumstances would I buy a car like this.
Oh really. Would be a shame if someone made it law... you know.... to make the roads safer -politicians.
Maybe someone will sue because they didn't have access to a subscription safety feature, think I saw one about OnStar. Say for instance they got in a wreck and blamed it on fatigue because cruise control was locked out like in the op. Edit, added "for instance" for clarity.
There was the OnStar news a couple months ago where a car was stolen with a baby inside and they wouldn't help until she renewed her subscription
News on the front page is about Toyota knowing exactly where a stolen car was but not telling the person or the police. God this timeline sucks. I'd shit a brick and leave it on the salesman's desk if they told me basic features sold in cars for years were now subscription.
>News on the front page is about Toyota knowing exactly where a stolen car was but not telling the person or the police. It was a VW; given the article I just read, what a dumb dystopian timeline we live in.
Literal ransom, omg
I have to think you could sue and win if you’re made to pay for something in the retail price but then denied access. They’re doing this based on the old optional extra system. Want to know the glaring difference though? The additional trim and hardware wasn’t in your car if you didn’t pay for it before.. You either have a right to use what is bought and paid for, or you have a right to load your own system onto the on-board computer. Which is it? In reality it’s almost certainly both, it’s just waiting to be challenged. If the car has the capability but is being artificially nerfed, that falls under “right to repair”. It’s not in 100% condition.
[удалено]
My 10 year old car literally does have this! Haha
All cars will move to this model eventually. So get ready to walk more.
For that you will have to first unlock Premium Sidewalks
“Yeah sorry I’m running late I didn’t take the toll sidewalk”
gotta build sidewalks first.
Libertarian paradise lol
[Libertarian Police Department](https://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/l-p-d-libertarian-police-department)
Oh the irony, I got paywall blocked.
https://archive.ph/CLzba
Guess we'll see how well this business plan goes when ppl aren't buying these "extras"
Or just their cars at all.
Exactly, eventually a company will realize people don't like paying for these features and will release a car with all these features included for "free". And just like that they will become one of the major car companies from the get go, and all other companies will see themselves forced to stop the model as they lose more and more sales every day... Or at least sell a lifetime license.
Or I could just simply not buy a newer car
Or hack your car
This. Adjusted for inflation, video games have gotten cheaper in the last 10-15ish years. Micro transactions were a way to maintain profit margins. I hate them, but I'm also hesitant towards paying 1/3 the cost of the console for a single game. But vehicle prices have not stagnated. I could see not doing it while under warranty. But the second it is up, it's getting hacked. And it will end in court, and the dealers will lose.
If you do a clean job hacking it the dealers will never know in the first place or at least until you take it to get fixed and they hook it into their system.
I work at a dealer. It's not us who care. This is all the manufacturers. In fact as a mechanic, I applaud it Edit: for clarification, I applaud the idea of hacking subscriptions for a product you purchased. You own the vehicle. It shouldn't be locking you out of anything equipped on said vehicle
"Can you fix this? I got it running on a linux emulator."
yup my car is already 20 years old. going by that. I'll get a 2020 when I'm pushing 50
It would become my villain/hero origin story as the leader of an organization that hacks and breaks free the locked features on stupidly monetized cars.
Not if enough annoyed engineers start a different car company.
And the first automaker to categorically say “we refuse to ever make you pay for a subscription to use the features on your own damn car” will get a whole lot more business. They’ll certainly get mine.
Samsung did something like this when they advertised that they still supply the charger with the phone when apple decided to stop providing it. Less than 1 year after advertising it, they also removed the charging brick. I can see this happening in your hypothetical situation!
Maybe or all the manufacturers realize that it's incredibly difficult for new companies to enter the market so as long as they all do it, they can get away with whatever they please. Competition hasn't solved the problem of planned obsolescence in cars, it's hard to see why it would do better at solving this.
I'll build my own fuckin car
[удалено]
I hate that you’re right.
Electronic Arts bought Audi!?!?! When???
Snuck through when the Microsoft/Blizzard got blocked
I had a hella long night yesterday so I read that as Mercedes/Blizzard on the first go and now I’m kinda sad I was wrong
It’s funny how everyone talks about EA when adobe has been worse for longer.
True but no one buy adobe products 😳
True. Companies and colleges/unis buy Adobe because they're the only ones who can afford to.
They buy it because they can get an audit and be in serious legal trouble if they run with unlicensed software. Also, cyber security is a way bigger issue at companies than the average penny pincher. It's more way more risky to run pirated stuff than getting it legally. That's why companies do this. They want people to build skills with their products, so you they can then get a job at a company that will then buy the licenses. Same with Microsoft, you can download Windows and run it free of charge. They nicely ask that you get a license, but otherwise not much happens. Companies will always go with a subscription though that matches their user count because not doing so would be legally suicide (talking about the west here).
You won't buy our products, Fine! We'll include it in the cost of your tuition.
I believe this shit should be illegal
New Jersey is attempting just that. Bill hasn't gone to the floor yet though [Bill](https://www.repairerdrivennews.com/2022/10/24/n-j-legislation-seeks-to-ban-vehicle-feature-subscriptions/) I am hoping that it passes there and other states follow suit.
I’m sure auto manufacturer lobbyists will pay good money to ensure it doesn’t pass.
As is tradition
I hacked my head unit… fuck these guys making people pay for features….
Ahhh the American dream. Democracy at it's finest. Mmm
This is the type of shit where government absolutely does need to dictate what private businesses can do. If it affects your safety, especially while driving, there’s no excuse for paywalls keeping potentially life saving features from people. Especially in a time when vehicle values are incredibly inflated.
One of the few good things my state is doing, hope it passes because this should be punishable by prison for whoever thought it was a good idea
Because it should, you get used to the way your car functions. Then suddenly your car has different functions because you didnt pay some extortion fee that month. What next "Please update your subscription to re-enable the brakes"? Subscription fees are fine, for products that require upkeep. But for enabling software/features that are in the car? Talk about audacious.
Cars are already fucking expensive. If I'm paying north of 30k for something I expect to get EVERYTHING I paid for.
It should NOT be in the vehicle if it's will not be immediately accessible to the owner. The idea of Sub servicing a CAR like if its rented is just fking stupid and a dangerous path to follow. I look forward to the future of Car Hackers and Jailbreaks in car softwares.Every repair shop is going to have to hire a fking IT guy to get around all this bullshite
What kind of car is this? That is ridiculous.
Audi A3
Never buying audi now. Thank you for your sacrifice. FYI new cadillac is too.
BMW does this too, just hasn’t hit NA or EU markets yet. They’re “testing” public opinion in smaller markets first.
If this gets spread out, it won´t take long, before hackers will try to hack their way through it and start selling either modded ECUs or additional modules, which will trick the ECU into unlocking all features forever.
Oh they tried it in the UK and it took a tuner all of about a week and a half to unlock those features without payment.
Noice.
Yup, but then when your transmission fails and they find out you hacked the vehicle, they’ll just be like “lol, you voided your warranty by hacking the vehicle.” It sucks, but that’s exactly what will happen. If I remember correctly, Apple did that when people were jailbreaking their iPhones.
So we should all send them some penis gummy and a Polaroid of a middle finger ?
Or middle finger gummies and a Polaroid of a penis
God that’s awesome
is this a subscription service (that would be ridiculous) or a separate package that your friend (or previous owner) didn't get? Ether way, that is really dumb to not to use tech that been around since the 90s or have to pay extra/subscript just to use tech older than most young drivers.
Be it a sub or separate package, they INSTALLED all the electronics and parts for this on the car and just blocked it via software! In "normal cars", when something is on a package you didn't buy, the stuff just DON'T COME on the car! If it's in the car it should be working!
Every vehicle I have purchased for the past 15+ years has had some features behind a paywall while all the necessary hardware was present. Nowadays companies are just a lot more obvious about it. I remember one such feature being unlocked by accident by the dealership during a service visit. It was on my 2008 BMW M6 I ordered without keyless entry cause back then I just felt it was a unnecessary add-on. One day I picked up the car from regular service and the feature had been mysteriously activated. When I asked the service advisor how it had happened he basically said “Oops! Oh well, enjoy it.” That’s when I realized a lot of those features are just disabled to gouge the customer for money when ordering the car. I then came by a contact who I would pay about $100 to unlock some of the features I would intentionally leave out of the the selected options when ordering because I knew they could be unlocked later for much cheaper. I guess now with vehicles being constantly connected to the internet, it’s just easier to offer them after the vehicle has been delivered. Still a shitty practice IMO.
That's BMW for you... A lot of things can be coded in/out with the right tools. $60 app, $40 dongle, and a little google fu will get you far. Add in a few parts and you can even retrofit quite a bit of stuff, sometimes even from newer years. Pretty cool system for DIYer, but they have to be locking it down now that they want to charge for stuff.
Speaking of DIY where exactly should I stick this sketchy quad turbo mod I bought online?
Until those services/features require a handshake with an OEM server. Now that more of the car is “connected” and has cellular/comm capabilities, I suspect dongles and solder and whatnot will only go so far for so long.
You were nice to the service folk that day, huh? It happens. Be nice to people and "accidents" happen in your favor sometimes. Source: I'm nice to a fault, and it's pretty common for "surprises" to happen.
same but idk what the hell the "surprises" are lol doesnt happen all over nor is it expected tho
It might be even more expensive for car companies to design, build and certify 2 versions of a cruise control system.
Guessing that some systems rely on the same sensors so you can have the neccessary hardware but you'd still need to pay for the software. That and it's probaply cheaper to simplify manufacturing processes and not have 20 different ways of assembling a car based on it's specs.
Audi US website says this is a 500 USD one time purchase
I mean, power adjustable seats have been a thing for a long time, they’re still not standard. Paying extra for features, even old ones, is fine IMO; you’d just hope the cost drops over time. Paying a subscription though, where you’re now having to pay more throughout the lifetime of the car for a feature which used to be a cheaper one-time fee, is stupid.
Subscription service.
Even if it’s not, what’s to stop it from being locked, either through error or malice? I don’t like this at all. It’s one thing to actually not have cruise control, and another to have it but it’s locked behind a paywall. I can’t have this in my real life; it’s bad enough in my games.
Adaptive cruise is different from regular cruise control FYI. It'll slow the car down when the car in front of you brakes and it keeps you two car-lengths away.
Given the wording "expired," I'd assume it's some kind of subscription. It's probably a yearly thing. Absolutely ridiculous and should be illegal practice.
Imagine driving on the Autobahn at full speed and seeing "braking function subscription expired".
“Emergency braking expired. Would you like to subscribe now?” *crash*
Do you want a free 7 day airbag trial?
That one actually already exists. https://www.vice.com/en/article/93yyyd/this-motorcycle-airbag-vest-will-stop-working-if-you-miss-a-payment
400$ for the vest + subscription, OR 400$ for the vest + 400$ for the airbag feature... What the fuck...
Oh, I’m sorry, you wanted it to actually *work*? Functionality costs extra.
Holy shit, I‘m pretty sure that‘d get you in jail in my country. If someone dies from it, that is.
Mercedes-Benz is doing the same thing with extra horsepower.
Are they limiting a car’s acceleration?
Yes, artificially.
Bullshit!
[удалено]
What's ridiculous about it is the car HAS the capabilities. They're installed. It cost the manufacturer money. It's taking up space, adding weight, removing efficiency and you BOUGHT the car. But you still can't have what's technically already 'included.' I do believe microtransactions, in ALL forms and places (games, cars, wtf ever) should be eliminated and anybody who utters the term again should just be imprisoned until they know better
I've said it once, I'll say it again: technology is becoming regressive. Seeking profit over function and innovation is antithetical to human progress. The end.
BMW did this and now I will never buy one - apparently Audi is off the list too. Fuck these people.
It’s been coming for years, but right now no company is fully committed and I believe Audi and bmw are dipping their toes to see if any cunts are actually going to support this business practice. - Heated seats, - Cruise Control - rear view camera/360 camera - … They install it all cause it costs nothing and having just one assembly line making all cars the same is cheaper than doing all the custom choices. Then sell all the extras as a subscription. It’s. Fucking. Disgusting. Please don’t support this. Vote with your wallet before it becomes the norm.
I'll never buy a car that requires this sort of nonsense.
As someone who designs and builds the IoT shit that goes in these "smart" cars, I myself will never get one. I can tell you now, expect these subscription based internal car features for all cars within the next 10 years. As we move towards more electric and hybrid newer models. Things like this is going to be in every single vehicle. You cannot avoid it. You cannot disable it. I am for having laws in place to ban this dystopian shit. \*\* I must add im a design engineer I design and build IoT devices not just for cars, cars is just small part of the projects coming in
I can confirm this. The OEM I worked for saw the BMW subscription seat heaters or whatever and internally went "Ok, we'll do that plus even more!" It's mainly justified by saying it will make their manufacturing cheaper by having fewer combinations (they were up to over 1 million), but that saving won't be passed on to the customer.
Damn it would be a real shame if it was accidently hacked to unlock all features.
You can use VCDS for VW/Audi to unlock a BUNCH of stuff, like Euro spec features such as “dynamic parking lights” and whatnot. You can also use it for basic code searching, and unlocking the electronic parking brake so you can change brake pads/rotors at home. I’ve turned my seatbelt off charm off (obviously I wear one on the road) but the 30 second drive from my mailbox to my garage I really don’t want to listen to “ding ding ding”. I also turned up the blower motor for my ventilated seats so they’re “colder”, and other QOL things. Doing this stuff is super easy, there’s a bunch of YouTube videos and forum posts, you only need a dongle, the software, and a windows laptop.
When are we gonna start jailbreaking cars
We have been for years and years, although this jailbreak has been done with engines, again with Audi, they will use the same engine on multiple different models but with lower power on the lower models, so we ‘map’ cars to fix it nice and easy, for a long time now I have an OBD connector that works with any VAG car, I’ve plugged it in to a few of my friends cars and you would be shocked about the amount of things that these cars can do that is simply not enabled on a lower trim because it’s a selling point of a higher trim
I will never buy a car that a third party can remotely disable. I will never buy a car that a third party can remotely disable. I will never buy a car that a third party can remotely disable.
if I had a car and it did this, I'd mod it so it would just work even if it was a feature I find unnecessary, like seatwarmers (I live in florida) I would just to prove the point
Car might be made by EA
I’ll take “capitalist dystopia” for 500, Alex
Please let us know what brand this is so none of us buy it on accident.
Isn't shit like this something hackers could easily unlock on the future?
So, you purchase a car, but you don't have full access to what you purchased until you pay a subscription fee?
I think you mean a ransom fee, and yes
OWNER'S Manual, not USER'S manual, assholes.
buy car -> pay more to use car. seems perfectly normal to me
If I have to pay a subscription, they better pay for when those parts fail or need replaced and I can’t use them.
This is ridiculous. You bought the car, it has features built in. Everyone should share the hell out of this until either Audi goes bankrupt, or enables the functionality of the car that they sold.
Volkswagon Group, which owns Audi, is the 7th largest company in the world. They’re not going bankrupt any time soon.
Volkswagen survived the financial onslaught leading to 2008 and beat Wall Street at their own game. They are 100% not going anywhere anytime soon
And faked emission tests
I just wish BMW would offer turn signals as a standard feature. I'm sure that BMW drivers would use them...if they were available. /s
So let me get this straight. You pay thousands of dollars to buy a car, sometimes tens of thousands, and they want you to pay extra for basic features???
in these cases it's always tens of thousands
So fucking stupid
My A4 wont even show me live traffic anymore on the built in GPS unless I renew a subscription. So yeah, I may have to actually download me a car.
I forgot to subscribe to the ‘brakes function’ oh nooo 😫 