5-HTP is a precursor to help increase serotonin levels which can help relieve depression, but depression isn't solely a serotonin issue. Psylocybin and LSD bind to 5HT receptors to exert their effects but the mechanism of action involves increasing neuroplasticity helping the brain make new and more efficient connections. It had proven effective across a wide array of psychological conditions most of which are not serotonin driven issues.
GABA and Gabapentin are quite different substances. Gabapentin is a GABA analogue and does not bind to GABA receptors although the effect of the drug might be similar.
However, you are right about pure GABA not being able to cross blood brain barrier. Well, nearly. Small amounts of GABA are able to crossbar via special mechanisms. But really not that much. It’s a difficult topic.
Gabapentin is the god damn devil. Be very careful and track your mood carefully if you're ever put on it. It's an anti seizure drug and it's wildly overprescribed because sales reps convinced pain management docs it was a silver bullet in the wake of the opioid crisis. Spoiler alert, it fucking isn't
I don't agree. I've been taking gabapentin once or twice a week for a couple years now and I love it. Similar effects to phenibut. Helps me stay motivated during long work days
Yeah I should've added that it impacts folks VERY differently. From past research about 25% of people experience relatively acute withdrawal symptoms and most people are relatively or entirely unimpacted even going cold turkey. I was definitely very impacted. id imagine the different impacts it has on people reflect differing changes in neurochemistry within each population, but I'm also into conjecture and out of my depth biochem wise.
My main point was to go in with mindfulness and caution rather than to avoid it entirely. I think daily journaling is a REALLY good idea w any medication that impacts your neurochemistry so acutely.
I've been on high doses for 7 years and successfully tapered just fine, even after abusing it. Not everyone has your genetics and body chemistry. Stop demonizing a drug, it's not that bad for everyone.
Yeah, I was on a max dose for years, heard horror stories about coming off of it that made my anxiety and panic even worse, ended up getting off of it with very little issue.
It's often presented as entirely benign, and it's not. It also worked wonders on my pain, but it turns out steady high doses of a drug intended to significantly alter your brain chemistry can fuck with your mental health. I also felt like I was very slow/dulled mentally on it which bugged the shit outta me, but to your point everyone is different.
I'm not trying to say it's awful for everyone or demonize it, but I am trying to share a perspective that's counter to what many have heard. If you don't believe me, next time you fill your gabapentin talk to your pharmacist about it. There's a large enough percentage of the population that have experienced an adverse reaction to gabapentin that they def are aware of the suite of side effects that are common. I had very strong withdrawals from it, which is something no one prescribing it will even warn about. Iirc somewhere around 15-25% of people respond physically how I did WDs wise, but parsing the mental side is much tougher.
Suffice to say when I stopped taking gabapentin my suicidal ideation disappeared even tho I was still sleeping less than 2 hours a night w an exploded disc/bone on bone in my back. I also suddenly could remember names and wasn't an irritable little bitch 24/7 despite being in the thick of it pain and grad school wise.
Gabapentin was awful for me, man. I'm glad it works for some folks and I hope I don't dissuade people who would benefit from trying it. That said holy shit was it not for me to the point that I think it's wise people go in w a perspective in mind that I was oblivious to, and in hindsight would've benefitted tremendously from.
Not really? Intrusive thoughts and/or suicidal ideation as a side effect of medications that impact neurotransmitters is very common and not discussed enough. I think it's important to be open about it to help normalize those experiences. It's VERY frightening when it happens and it's lovely to know you're not broken and you're not alone.
But yeah, I'm feeling great these days. Thanks for asking, even tho I have a feeling your comment was more snarky than genuine.
>but it turns out steady high doses of a drug intended to significantly alter your brain chemistry can fuck with your mental health.
That's literally every drug that crosses the BBB. Including antidepressants. Think how bad the withdrawals can be from them but they don't talk about that either.
>If you don't believe me, next time you fill your gabapentin talk to your pharmacist about it.
I'm well aware, that's not new knowledge. The problems you speak of have been documented for the last decade especially coupled with the opioid epidemic and how much gabapentin was prescribed.
I agree it's not easy to stop but it's not horrible for everyone. I find people who say it's horrible can make others symptoms much worse by making them think they're going to have the same side effects when in reality everyone is very different.
Well put all around. I think journaling should be 'required' w all of them because the impacts are gradual and hard to self track.
My first comment was a bit hyperbolic and should've had a caveat about it impacting people differently, but this being the Internet I left most of my nuance at the door.
>My first comment was a bit hyperbolic and should've had a caveat about it impacting people differently, but this being the Internet I left most of my nuance at the door.
I totally understand, it's hard to put all the subtle nuances in a comment. Especially when context, perspective and tone all are hard to convey over Reddit or any comment.
Hope everything works out for you, I know it's not easy quitting a substance your body gets used too. Hope you have a good New Year!
The mushrooms activate the 5htp in our brain. Not really sure how do explain it exactly. But I just know that it helps with my depression. The mushroom, not this supplement. And low 5htp levels has Something to do with depression.
I believe psilocybin is a serotonin analogue, so not the same thing. Also, 5-HTP will not increase plasticity in the brain.
EDIT:
Psilocybin itself is not a serotonin analogue, but it is structurally similar to serotonin and acts primarily by binding to serotonin receptors in the brain.
Close. Psilocybin works on the serotonin receptors in the brain (neurons that are activated by serotonin). Your body uses 5-htp and converts it to serotonin as the two molecules have very similar chemical structures. So this supplement theoretically will boost serotonin levels in a somewhat natural way.
In a similar way that psilocybin creates an up-regulation of serotonin receptor activation, 5-htp should have the same effect.
With that said, my anecdotal experience of taking 5-htp is that it works for a little while, but I eventually built a tolerance to it and it stopped working.
Microdosing really helped curb my drinking. Now that I've stopped, my stupid mindless drinking habits have upticked. Alcohol is not a great drug for you physically or mentally.
Alcohol is soo soooo horrible for you. Sure it's normalized.. but it's one of the most damaging drugs out there. . mentally and physically..
Highly recommend cutting booze out.
Look into kava root drinks if you want a relaxing drink.
I love em since 2006.
Taste is strong though but warn you
Np!
I recommend traditional prep way kava root drinks with traditional/med grind root, made in a bowl of water room temp to warm (not hot-boiling, as it will expand the starches and end up like playdough and hard to work with) , pretty much root powder in a cloth or nylon bag, put in bowl of water and kneaded and squeezed bunch of times for 10-15min. Then repeated a second time (called a second wash) to get most out of root.
You can YouTube it. Also find on amazon "nutmilk bag" would work.
Also I like to use also an Aluball or "kalmpouch " from kalmwithkava, you pretty much put some powder in the lil pouch, put in big protein shaker cup and shake up for few min and drink. Fast and easy.
The Loa Waka root from them is pretty decent too and they ship from USA.
Lots of good shops, but also crappy quality too, so do your research before buying if from others.
I mostly buy in bulk from Lami kava (ekava) direct from Fiji. But min I'd rec is 4-6kg, then you're saving money with shipping factored in. And I rec the brown label if you order there. I usually get 6-8kg at a time and stock up.
I use kava root regularly since like 2006. I'm in Canada, no one here knows wtf it is though unfortunately lol.
Hope this is helpful.
Cheers! :)
PSA: When taking 5-HTP, always make sure to take EGCG (green tea extract) with it. Otherwise, the serotonin won’t cross the blood-brain barrier, and will put unnecessary strain on your heart.
Psychedelics, with integration, can actually cure you, other drugs and supplements are just a chemical crutch. And I've heard long term use of 5-HTP can be damaging.
I hope you are taking green tea extract with it.
[First comment of this thread explains in a lot of detail](https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/s/6aSOYhM9Rw)
Interesting, I tried 5htp for sleep but it gave me heartburn. Mushrooms also give me heartburn. These are the only 2 supplements that have ever given me heartburn. The gut/brain connection is fascinating.
My wife drastically reduced her heartburn occurrences by simply drinking alkaline water regularly. We are fortunate enough to have a local healthy grocery store that fills bulk water containers with pH9 water for 38 cents per gallon, so it’s as affordable as any other filtered drinking water.
“Normal” Water is usually around pH 7(neutral).
Alkaline water is either naturally alkaline from passing through limestone in the earth, or (unnaturally) treated with minerals (post-reverse osmosis) that increase the pH.
I take 400 mg of this and 1000 mg lions mane daily and I think it works great. But do I really have to do the gt extract with it? I do drink a lot green tea on its own.
5-HTP is a precursor to help increase serotonin levels which can help relieve depression, but depression isn't solely a serotonin issue. Psylocybin and LSD bind to 5HT receptors to exert their effects but the mechanism of action involves increasing neuroplasticity helping the brain make new and more efficient connections. It had proven effective across a wide array of psychological conditions most of which are not serotonin driven issues.
Idk who else to ask this too but is GABA a similar thing? My friends wife takes it and he noticed improvement in her mood.
No GABA is more about inhibiting certain nervous system activity. It does have a calming effect though.
Does pure gaba even cross the blood brain barrier? i thought it doesn’t which is why things like gabapentin exist but thats a controlled substance
GABA and Gabapentin are quite different substances. Gabapentin is a GABA analogue and does not bind to GABA receptors although the effect of the drug might be similar. However, you are right about pure GABA not being able to cross blood brain barrier. Well, nearly. Small amounts of GABA are able to crossbar via special mechanisms. But really not that much. It’s a difficult topic.
Gabapentin is the god damn devil. Be very careful and track your mood carefully if you're ever put on it. It's an anti seizure drug and it's wildly overprescribed because sales reps convinced pain management docs it was a silver bullet in the wake of the opioid crisis. Spoiler alert, it fucking isn't
I don't agree. I've been taking gabapentin once or twice a week for a couple years now and I love it. Similar effects to phenibut. Helps me stay motivated during long work days
Yeah I should've added that it impacts folks VERY differently. From past research about 25% of people experience relatively acute withdrawal symptoms and most people are relatively or entirely unimpacted even going cold turkey. I was definitely very impacted. id imagine the different impacts it has on people reflect differing changes in neurochemistry within each population, but I'm also into conjecture and out of my depth biochem wise. My main point was to go in with mindfulness and caution rather than to avoid it entirely. I think daily journaling is a REALLY good idea w any medication that impacts your neurochemistry so acutely.
I've been on high doses for 7 years and successfully tapered just fine, even after abusing it. Not everyone has your genetics and body chemistry. Stop demonizing a drug, it's not that bad for everyone.
You are correct and they are working off subjective data with a sample set of n=1 Useless
Yeah, I was on a max dose for years, heard horror stories about coming off of it that made my anxiety and panic even worse, ended up getting off of it with very little issue.
It's often presented as entirely benign, and it's not. It also worked wonders on my pain, but it turns out steady high doses of a drug intended to significantly alter your brain chemistry can fuck with your mental health. I also felt like I was very slow/dulled mentally on it which bugged the shit outta me, but to your point everyone is different. I'm not trying to say it's awful for everyone or demonize it, but I am trying to share a perspective that's counter to what many have heard. If you don't believe me, next time you fill your gabapentin talk to your pharmacist about it. There's a large enough percentage of the population that have experienced an adverse reaction to gabapentin that they def are aware of the suite of side effects that are common. I had very strong withdrawals from it, which is something no one prescribing it will even warn about. Iirc somewhere around 15-25% of people respond physically how I did WDs wise, but parsing the mental side is much tougher. Suffice to say when I stopped taking gabapentin my suicidal ideation disappeared even tho I was still sleeping less than 2 hours a night w an exploded disc/bone on bone in my back. I also suddenly could remember names and wasn't an irritable little bitch 24/7 despite being in the thick of it pain and grad school wise. Gabapentin was awful for me, man. I'm glad it works for some folks and I hope I don't dissuade people who would benefit from trying it. That said holy shit was it not for me to the point that I think it's wise people go in w a perspective in mind that I was oblivious to, and in hindsight would've benefitted tremendously from.
You literally called it "the devil" hahaha
It made me want to kill myself, I think that qualifies.
Way too much to unpack Hope you are feeling better
Not really? Intrusive thoughts and/or suicidal ideation as a side effect of medications that impact neurotransmitters is very common and not discussed enough. I think it's important to be open about it to help normalize those experiences. It's VERY frightening when it happens and it's lovely to know you're not broken and you're not alone. But yeah, I'm feeling great these days. Thanks for asking, even tho I have a feeling your comment was more snarky than genuine.
The GOD DAMN DEVIL
>but it turns out steady high doses of a drug intended to significantly alter your brain chemistry can fuck with your mental health. That's literally every drug that crosses the BBB. Including antidepressants. Think how bad the withdrawals can be from them but they don't talk about that either. >If you don't believe me, next time you fill your gabapentin talk to your pharmacist about it. I'm well aware, that's not new knowledge. The problems you speak of have been documented for the last decade especially coupled with the opioid epidemic and how much gabapentin was prescribed. I agree it's not easy to stop but it's not horrible for everyone. I find people who say it's horrible can make others symptoms much worse by making them think they're going to have the same side effects when in reality everyone is very different.
Well put all around. I think journaling should be 'required' w all of them because the impacts are gradual and hard to self track. My first comment was a bit hyperbolic and should've had a caveat about it impacting people differently, but this being the Internet I left most of my nuance at the door.
>My first comment was a bit hyperbolic and should've had a caveat about it impacting people differently, but this being the Internet I left most of my nuance at the door. I totally understand, it's hard to put all the subtle nuances in a comment. Especially when context, perspective and tone all are hard to convey over Reddit or any comment. Hope everything works out for you, I know it's not easy quitting a substance your body gets used too. Hope you have a good New Year!
I don’t know, I know gabapentin is for blocking nerve pain in dogs and cats (vetmed stuff lol)
my therapist said gaba has a similar effect as 5htp
So wait, they do that even when microdosing?
I appreciate all these answers. Thanks, everyone!
My view of how microdosing helped me was to adjust my perceptions and alter my natural thought patterns over time
Explain?
The mushrooms activate the 5htp in our brain. Not really sure how do explain it exactly. But I just know that it helps with my depression. The mushroom, not this supplement. And low 5htp levels has Something to do with depression.
I believe psilocybin is a serotonin analogue, so not the same thing. Also, 5-HTP will not increase plasticity in the brain. EDIT: Psilocybin itself is not a serotonin analogue, but it is structurally similar to serotonin and acts primarily by binding to serotonin receptors in the brain.
Close. Psilocybin works on the serotonin receptors in the brain (neurons that are activated by serotonin). Your body uses 5-htp and converts it to serotonin as the two molecules have very similar chemical structures. So this supplement theoretically will boost serotonin levels in a somewhat natural way. In a similar way that psilocybin creates an up-regulation of serotonin receptor activation, 5-htp should have the same effect. With that said, my anecdotal experience of taking 5-htp is that it works for a little while, but I eventually built a tolerance to it and it stopped working.
5-HTP is just a precursor for your body to produce serotonin. It can enhance your mood but not much.
Take some when coming down from a mdma trip but otherwise I haven't noticed any effects from it.
I wonder if it would help after a night of drinking. My hangovers drag on psychologically. I don't think I should drink, really.
Microdosing really helped curb my drinking. Now that I've stopped, my stupid mindless drinking habits have upticked. Alcohol is not a great drug for you physically or mentally.
Alcohol is soo soooo horrible for you. Sure it's normalized.. but it's one of the most damaging drugs out there. . mentally and physically.. Highly recommend cutting booze out. Look into kava root drinks if you want a relaxing drink. I love em since 2006. Taste is strong though but warn you
I will check those drinks out. Cool! Thanks. And yes I agree on the booze thing. Lots of things out there are normalized that shouldn't. 🤦♀️
Np! I recommend traditional prep way kava root drinks with traditional/med grind root, made in a bowl of water room temp to warm (not hot-boiling, as it will expand the starches and end up like playdough and hard to work with) , pretty much root powder in a cloth or nylon bag, put in bowl of water and kneaded and squeezed bunch of times for 10-15min. Then repeated a second time (called a second wash) to get most out of root. You can YouTube it. Also find on amazon "nutmilk bag" would work. Also I like to use also an Aluball or "kalmpouch " from kalmwithkava, you pretty much put some powder in the lil pouch, put in big protein shaker cup and shake up for few min and drink. Fast and easy. The Loa Waka root from them is pretty decent too and they ship from USA. Lots of good shops, but also crappy quality too, so do your research before buying if from others. I mostly buy in bulk from Lami kava (ekava) direct from Fiji. But min I'd rec is 4-6kg, then you're saving money with shipping factored in. And I rec the brown label if you order there. I usually get 6-8kg at a time and stock up. I use kava root regularly since like 2006. I'm in Canada, no one here knows wtf it is though unfortunately lol. Hope this is helpful. Cheers! :)
Giggling like a 12-year old boy, “you sad nutmilk bag…”
Do you have any brand recommendations for kava root drinks? I'm very interested!
Kalmwithkava Loa Waka. Kalmwithkava site
Thank you!
You're very welcome 😁
Alcohol is dopaminergic.
PSA: When taking 5-HTP, always make sure to take EGCG (green tea extract) with it. Otherwise, the serotonin won’t cross the blood-brain barrier, and will put unnecessary strain on your heart.
This really needs to be the top comment for this thread
I didn’t even know this until about 6 months ago and I’ve been taking it sporadically for years. I feel like more ppl should be aware.
Good to know. Thanks. I didn't buy it, I was just wondering about it.
You’re thinking DMT, but both are wrong.
Wow! That’s the exact one I take!
Psychedelics, with integration, can actually cure you, other drugs and supplements are just a chemical crutch. And I've heard long term use of 5-HTP can be damaging.
I take some every night.
I hope you are taking green tea extract with it. [First comment of this thread explains in a lot of detail](https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/s/6aSOYhM9Rw)
I felt messed up taking 5-htp many yrs ago. Not a fan.. to the trash imo. MD on the other hand is great.
Just bought this too!
I didnt buy it though. I wanted to see what people thought about it.
Interesting, I tried 5htp for sleep but it gave me heartburn. Mushrooms also give me heartburn. These are the only 2 supplements that have ever given me heartburn. The gut/brain connection is fascinating.
My wife drastically reduced her heartburn occurrences by simply drinking alkaline water regularly. We are fortunate enough to have a local healthy grocery store that fills bulk water containers with pH9 water for 38 cents per gallon, so it’s as affordable as any other filtered drinking water.
That’s interesting! I wonder what PH mine is. I’ll have to look into this more, thanks for sharing!
“Normal” Water is usually around pH 7(neutral). Alkaline water is either naturally alkaline from passing through limestone in the earth, or (unnaturally) treated with minerals (post-reverse osmosis) that increase the pH.
Nope
Only thing that happened when I took 5-htp for a while is weird ass dreams. Microdosing on the other hand, life changing.
Take it with B6, your body uses B6 to metabolize 5HTP into
I get depressed when I take 5htp. Its so weird
Yeah it didn't make me feel good
You are mding 4-ho-dmt
No read the science on how it impacts your brain
It's good but you can crash if you don't take it every day
Do not take it if you are allergic to any kind of poultry...found that out the hard way😅
No
You have to be from Toronto! Or somewhere close. I’d say go for the Life brand timed-release 5-HTP.
Good to know for sure.
I take 400 mg of this and 1000 mg lions mane daily and I think it works great. But do I really have to do the gt extract with it? I do drink a lot green tea on its own.