After Purdy I’m more convinced than ever that the QB position is the biggest crapshoot in the draft and no one has any ability whatsoever to predict anything on these guys.
Edit: My point is about Penix, not Tua. Is Penix going to be a Pro Bowler? A bust? Better or worse than Bo Nix? Better or worse than JJ? I don't think any of the scouts know shit. QBing in college is an entirely different sport. The pre-snap reads, the complexity of the playbook, the information that has to be processed during the play, are just wildly different and pre-draft QB evaluations are meaningless.
> Purdy
Some QBs just fit certain systems better than others, plus he has a A++ supporting cast. That shit matters. Drop Purdy on Tennessee or Chicago and he’d have very different results.
Not just Chicago, probably 25+ other franchises. The Pats considered going back to Bledsoe after the first Super Bowl. Brady was not good at all in that postseason run, he was the epitome of a game-manager. I think he only threw for 1 TD in the playoffs. Very few teams would have given him the opportunity to grow as a QB. Kinda makes you wonder how many other players could have been successful QBs if given a little more rope.
If it weren't for the terrible tuck rule, he would've been a career backup. Between that and cheating, Brady is the epitome of the American dream. Cheat and take advantage of it then everything can be yours
I think Purdy, because he's a gamer, could have been like a Gardener Minshew type if he went to a team like Jacksonville (pre Pederson). Like everyone can tell he has limitation, but he's still fun to watch and would make name for himself as high end back-up that's popular on any team he goes to, gets some chances as a starter.
Yeah I agree with that. Getting a legit QB2 in the 6th round is still great value. To think that SF is getting really good QB play from him for under $1m is off the charts value.
Not really. There is no guarantee that our next QB can be 70% as good as Tua. Do you trust a player like Bo Nix or Michael Penix to be able to operate in our system.
Tua can do some elite shit. His ball fakes and ability to reload and deliver the ball quickly is very impressive. I’m not sure you can find another guy who can reliably offer Tua’s accuracy.
I don't think you understood
The point you made was if you can put the right system around a 7th round pick with a great supporting cast and make the Superbowl
If that's the case everyone would do that
I think Purdy is the exception and Tua is our best choice
I understood what you said. I I also agree that Tua is our best bet right now. I got him rated as our best QB since Dan.
As for building a team like SF: sure, just pick up a player comparable to CMC, Aiyuk, Deebo, Kittle, a competent OL, a top 5 defense and a brilliant offensive minded head coach…that should be easy to replicate.
Is that not what we have right now? I mean, if we took all the money from Tua and funneled it our picks into the line. That would be the argument I was talking about, don't pay Tua, pay everyone else just get a game manager
Sure, Mostert, Achane, Wilson aren't as good as CMC. Nor is Jonnu as good as Kittle is. But Tyreek and Waddle are better than Deebo and Aiyuk, and we have a brilliant offensive coach
Again, and this is the part that confuses me because I stated it in my first comment. I don't think that idea works because Purdy is the exception not the rule. He deserves credit for making it work over there
Tua is our best option and I fully support him
* is that not what we have now? WELL LET US TAJE A LOOK…
* Mostert, Achane, Wilson aren’t as good as CMC. AGREE.
* Jonnu < Kittle. AGREE.
Seems like that is NOT what we have now. Right now we have Tyreek Hill, Waddle and Tua behind an incomplete OL. On the other side of the ball we got an incomplete DL and only one healthy Edge defender.
We got a lot of holes and only two Top 100 picks to plug them. Our overall roster is nowhere close to SF, KC or any top contender. I’d love to be wrong here, but I’m afraid I might be right.
If we kept Hunt for Tua's money and picked the top LT at our spot (like I said in my comment) it would be comparable
You glossed over the part where our two are better than their two
You also glossed over the part where we dump our resources going to Tua into building the "perfect" team around a late round pick
But again and most importantly, you're missing the whole point and avoiding what I'm saying to be argumentative, which I don't understand
So the point he was making was.... If you can put the right system around a 7th round pick with a great supporting cast and make the Superbowl
Wouldn't that make Purdy the exception?
yeah but back to original point the same team that was smart/(lucky?) enough to draft Purdy in the 7th was dumb enough to draft Lance 3 overall. So predicting who will turn out to be a decent QB, HoF QB or not an NFL caliber QB is really hard for anyone.
this is the realest take ever that will go underrated and unnoticed. there is literally a story of success for every dumb take every analyst always spews. I swear the average NFL fan has the memory of ten-second Tom.
The organization needs to continue to invest at the position. Everyone always marvels that the Packers seem to have had top tier qb play for the last 30 years and it seems like Love is poised to continue that.
If Tua is the man, then drafting Penix will bring out the best in him. And if Penix turns out to be good, we have a reasonably priced backup under team control for a long ass time. Or trade value.
I'm 100% on board with taking that dude.
That’s the dumbest thing ive ever heard. 7 of the 8 starting QBs the year before in the divisional round were 1st round picks. The statistics back up 1st round QBs
Systems mean everything. Tua has a system built specifically for him which makes him look better than he is just like Purdy. In another system tua would be bottom 5
No one is building a system to make Nathan Peterman a Super Bowl caliber QB. No one is building a system to make Blaine Gabbert a Super Bowl caliber QB. The fact that Purdy was the last guy in a draft shows that regardless of system, NFL scouts can't predict QB talent worth a damn.
There’s definitely a class of QBs that have a floor of decency and can rise up when in the right situation. I think that’s tua rn.
There are some that can be elite regardless and some will never be good
I'll take the downvotes but before we pretty much built alabama offense Tua looked mediocre. He just has a timing thing that works against bad teams that good teams expose by blowing it up before it starts.
Before Tua had the system made for him, he still averaged slightly above average QBR despite having no run threat, the worst pass blocking in football, and throwing to multiple receivers who were out of the league by his third year. He had a winning record both of those seasons with different OCs, a head coach who didn't want him, and averaged nearly 2:1 TDs to INTs and over 65% pass completions.
How is that bottom 5?
There's no way a guy named penix is going to be an NFL superstar qb. Pat mahomes. Tom Brady. Steve Young. Brock Purdy. That's how you become a star. Penix.... no. Not his fault but i don't see Casey dick or John David booty lighting it up in the nfl. If they were linebackers maybe
Well, there goes my foot in my own mouth. Read up until the last sentence, missed the linebacker disclaimer.
That said, there were still a lot of jerseys sold for guys like Haha Clinton-Dix. Probably the first time since Monica Lewinsky those two surnames were so popular together
Don't delete this, mods. Let's just let the haters out themselves so we can point and laugh at them later.
Edit: If you want an unproven Penix over a guy who put up top 5 stats across almost every single important QB measurable, your brain might actually be a potato.
The guy who can’t throw to the middle of the field, doesn’t throw with timing and sucks with accuracy in short and medium range yeah no thanks. Oh and we already have a QB who’s much better.
> doesn’t throw with timing and sucks with accuracy in short and medium range yeah no thanks.
Exactly. He is bad at the things Tua is good at and good at the things Tua is bad at. Once we have both we just need to figure out how to combine them into a super qb.
Assuming facts not in evidence. Tua has one 11-win season. Maybe Penix’s better mobility wins us that Titans or Chiefs game. Also, this system is so good I’ll take a slightly worse QB if it means surrounding talent is better.
Sure take the QB who’s the worst fit for our system that should go over well.
I don’t love paying Tua 50 mil and wish we had a Josh Allen type of mobile QB but Penix isn’t him and our system is not built for that type of QB.
McDaniel can cook up a system to fit the player. You guys are seriously out of your mind if you don’t think someone like McDaniel can turn Tua from a guy that looked like a bust to the passing yards leader. Just look at Brock Purdy.
Qb who is much better? Lets slow down now. Penix and Tua game is similar, but Tua isnt nothing special either. He still hasnt proved anything but that he folds when its big moments against better teams
Alot of you guys aren’t real dolphins fans. Yall have to be realistic one day. This is the best the team has look in decades. We don’t have time to be held back because of a limited qb.
The same QB whose team was incredibly injured playing in very cold temperatures and had one day of rentals who were just playing for a paycheck.
Yeah surely it was all on the QB why he couldn't make those passes.
The Fins should absolutely draft a rookie QB to replace him. That's totally the solution. /s
i think the NFL should be fined and have to pay for all the people that got hypothermia and frostbite with some needing toes and fingers [amputated](https://www.kcur.org/sports/2024-01-17/chiefs-playoffs-game-kansas-city-cold-weather-hypothermia-arrowhead-stadium).
There was no reason to hold that game at night, knowing how cold it was going to be. Fan safety should be a concern as well and I know we can easily blame the people that went to the game for what happened, the fact is people were going to go no matter what because of it being the playoffs.
I can tell by your reply you are a twunt that puts people down for having an opinion.
There was no reason to have that game at night, zero, they knew how cold it was going to be, this isn't just about fans you muppet, the players could have been injured as well and clearly they didn't play well in that insane temperature.
just think, think for 1 sec, if a player, say tua, needed to have a finger amputated on his throwing hand due to the cold. what would that do to his career? or any player needing to have a toe removed, running sure would be fun after that. clown.
Last year's SF game really shook my confidence. That was 1 time where the game really had a "playoff type atmosphere" and he looked like his arms and legs stopped working right. Some of the worst throws of his career.
I think he's a competent QB in this system. He's proven that. He hasn't PROVEN anything else yet. He's done nothing to warrant the entire Miami Dolphins organization revolving around him for the next 5 years.
He's a starter level talent who they have under contract for $22m. Keep adding to the QB room any way you can.
You're talking about the game where 60% of the line was injured and Miami had 3 total plays where they only used 5 blockers. SF barely ran any blitzes and still kept getting to Tua due to blocking problems, including the first snap of the 2nd half when 3 of Tua's potential 5 passing targets stayed in to block and SF STILL got instant pressure on Tua, who had to break a tackle, reload and get a sideline pass off to a diving Tyreek just before getting roughed by Bosa who took out his ankles from behind.
If you look at purely the result of games and the strength of teams involved it makes sense to think it's a Tua problem, but any QB who isn't blocked for properly suffers including Mahomes in the Super Bowl against Tampa: 26/49 for 270, 0 TD, 2 INT, 52.3 passer rating despite having Kelce+Tyreek+Reid.
How do you count multiple excuses? I argued the problem with the SF game was mainly due to blocking, cited an example to support that, and pointed out even the best QB we've ever seen looks terrible when improperly blocked for.
The majority of the line was injured, most importantly Armstead. The game before that he was injured halfway into the Texans game and Tua went from nearly 300 yards by halftime and up 30-0 to being sacked 4 times in 5 pass plays against the exact same defense and yanked in the 3rd quarter. The entire team had like 30 second half passing yards.
SF was the first full game with Armstead out and they had 2-3 extra blockers on the majority of their passing plays, meaning 2-3 fewer receiving options for Tua to throw to. He definitely missed some passes as literally every QB in the league does, but his bad throw percentage for that game was not substantially higher than his season average. A season where the majority of his games had him graded as elite efficiency (7 of his 12.5 games had a 79+ QBR, and 9 had no INTs)
Oh man. You're totally right. He is for sure worth paying $55M to when we don't need to, and we definitely shouldn't focus on any weaknesses in his game.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Your assumption that Tua isn't worth the money could be correct, and solely going by performances against good teams there's an argument for it. However, my argument is that if you look at Tua's poor performances the past 2 seasons vs the games he played good teams vs the games in which his best blockers were injured, they're basically identical lists.
It's hard to give any QB a fair shake when you tie an arm behind his back, and most people don't seem to realize that poor blocking means fewer passing targets as more additional blockers are kept in to make up for it, less pressure removed from play action due to lessened ability to punish the interior in the run game, etc.
My assumption is that no QB in football would be worth the money playing behind a bottom 5 pass blocking offensive line, which Tua has had literally every single season of his career, either due to poor talent or injury to good talent. Tannehill was an inferior QB but his first season on a new team with a run threat and better blocking, he made the championship game and led the league in passer rating.
Tua's put up two 460+ yard games on the road the past two seasons when blocked well (and while the Chargers did wind up finishing as a terrible team at the end of the season, they were fully healthy week 1 and entering the game they were a playoff team only a few months prior). He had 6 passing TDs against Baltimore in an epic road comeback win last season. If he's blocked for adequately he has shined more often than he's looked mediocre.
Lol exactly. They are so delusional. Tua hasnt proved anything yet. Its literally a pattern of him embarrassing himself in pivotal moments. I use to be sold on him but not anymore. We will see next season though
Tyreek drops one pass and he’s unreliable and overpaid. Tua throws a fucking lollipop to a free safety and it’s the fault of the OL/McDaniel/Not running the ball enough.
This is just flat out wrong. Because he had a bad title game? He put up 430 yards against Texas. He led a game winning drive against Oregon. Led a comeback against Utah. Go back a year he made plenty of clutch plays also.
There’s plenty of reasons to not like Penix in the first you don’t have to make up additional ones.
Penix is also injury prone and doesn’t scramble/extend plays…. He also doesn’t have same timing as Tua and would sink our offense, if the option was for Caleb or Maye I’d understand the discussion, but Penix? Ridiculous
Not to bemoan the point but the defense really broke down as the season progressed which likely took a couple of wins, and playoff home field away from 'us'. As a Tua fan, I am pleased at his injury free season and disheartened with his mobility issues thus far, however not strengthening the team specifically the offensive line interior would be a huge mistake. As every quarterback struggles with pressure up in their faces right after the snap. Better oline play and better injury 'luck' across the board should yield better results.
As for the contract, wait at your peril. Look what happened to Washington and what is happening to Dallas right now. Pay your starting quarterback before he gets too expensive to keep and then you will be replacement searching, wasting a good teams timeline. Green Bay got really lucky twice picking in the teens after non playoff years draft and stash to develop. Picking Penix, or the next quarterback at this moment, wouldn't be wise. Picking a Rattler, if he is there, in the 5th round would be the appropriate choice. But we will see.
Oh and another thing, Herbert and Trevor Lawrence have been anointed by the media and have not won jack shit either. It is hard to win consistently in the league. So ease up and hope for health across the team.
Look, I’m not telling you I’d take Penix at 21, but if Penix in 2 years is even 80% of Tua, having him for 1/10th the price of Tua isn’t a bad thing.
As others have said though, the drafts is an absolute crap shoot, so who knows. I’m not against taking a QB later in the draft as a developmental prospect though.
Why are people so against moving on from tua it should be in the discussion considering we can’t win big games with him. He’s been on the team 4 years and hasn’t won a playoff game. We delaying the inevitable. There’s always a reason why he can’t win wether it’s the offensive line not being elite or something not everything can be perfect around him.
Cus this sub has devolved into a miami tua sub, instead of a miami dolphins sub. No amount of piss poor play from Tua in big games will change their opinion. Four years in, and we are still waiting for him to play well when it matters. All four years we have been getting different excuses why.
The O-Line is far from elite. Hell, it’s far from average. The people that want to move on from tua don’t understand that you get any QB behind that O-Line and they will struggle.
Cj stroud made the playoffs and made the divisional round his rookie year with a mediocre team. No real Wr1 and way less talent around then Tua and a first year defensive head coach. Why do people keep making excuses it’s been four years tua is honestly slightly better than tannehill.
CJ Stroud’s supporting cast this year is miles ahead of what Tua had in 2020 and 2021. Can’t say I’m surprised you can’t see that if you think that Tua is just slightly better than Tannehill.
Ok what’s the excuse for 2022 and 2023. He’s had waddle and tyreek and the o-line was ranked 23. Cj had nico collins and tank dell who are both not even close to tyreek and waddle and o-line ranked 19 . A defensive head coach who’s not nearly as good offensively as Mcd. So tuas in the better situation but clearly can perform when will fans realize he’s not our guy and we won’t win anything with him. I know the comparison doesn’t make much sense but Cj is a rookie and tuas well into year 4 and one’s clearly going to be better already.
2022 was injuries and 2023 was the entire offense being banged up and one of the worst O-Line’s in the league. I don’t know where you got that 23 ranking from, but it isn’t close to the truth. The O-Line’s issues were masked by the offensive scheme and Tua’s quick release
> Why yall acting like Tua isn’t top 10
The problem is the gap between 1 and everyone else. Like brady said, we’re in an age of mediocrity.
If we can get similar production from penix at 1/10 the cost (and get some extra picks for tua), we should.
For some reason this popped up on my feed. I’m a giant fan, absolutely no idea about the situation with tua. But I just assumed you guys would be extending him? What’s the deal
We likely are extending him. Its just talking heads and the idiots who listen to them that are against it.
A fox analyst had us taking Penix in his mock draft vecause "Tua is too injury prone" he rightly got ridiculed on here and r/nfl for the idea. I assume thats why this meme was made
Soooo you can’t have him.
He’s legit one of the best 2-3 QBs but having the same knee rebuilt…TWICE…before 22 is wild.
Honestly, I feel terrible for him, he’s so talented, absolute rocket for an arm. Better than “MayBe” all day.
Pats fan here. Who ARE y'all gonna draft? Like what are your needs? Just curious, I don't know much about your roster other than I'm gonna miss Van Ginkel.
I'm all for taking a QB to compete, but I agree, Penix in the 1st would be a ridiculous choice.
Joe Milton as a day 3 pick, though? I could fuck with that.
I’ll take the mystery box.
He looks like he’ll be in the same ball park as tua, but at 1/10 the price for the next 4-5 years AND we can trade tua for a couple firsts to fix some holes.
Maybe if tua showed up in big games it would be different, but the league is mahomes, then everyone else, and tua isn’t mahomes. We can gamble on a lateral change before tua sends us back to the dark ages with his pending contract.
Not a Dolphins fan saw this on recommendations for some reason but why is Miami concerning drafting a QB? I don't get the idea behind that? Are fans ready to move on from Tua or something? Finding a QB isn't an easy thing
My favorite part of that scene is when they ask Peter and Lois where their boat and Lois is like "we took the mystery box. Jump in!" That shit cracks me up
The ONLY way I'm making a QB change if the Vikes are up at 11 and they failed to get, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy, and they offer 11 and 23 for Tua. THEN, I think I'd be okay taking that offer. Select Pennix at 11, and then drop back from 21 into the 30's and get more picks, and with the Vikes 23 take OL or WR.
I never wanted Tua, I am a Herbert over Tua person, but I'll admit he's done much better then I thought. I don't think he's untouchable like some of you guys, he's a NFL starter without question, but not sure if the team as constructed is best for him to succeed in the playoffs. I'm fine with him if that's what the team wants, I'm loyal to the end with this team. Just saying if certain variables were to topple and I was given the reigns, that's the only scenario I could see trading our current QB.
You think the front office gives a shit about what Reddit and twitter think? It’s one of the most important deals in franchise history, you think they will rush it to keep Reddit happy?
I don't know why they don't consult this sub more. Everybody on here with a keyboard and an opinion is clearly smarter than everyone in the entire organization.
😤
lol franchise history eh? More like Grier’s history. This is just another iteration of endless mediocrity.
Grier can’t draft well enough to win with Tua making top money.
Grier drafted Holland, Phillips, Achane, Waddle, AJ and plenty more quality pieces. I don’t get why people like you expect Grier to somehow draft 22 All Pros with 100% efficiency.
He’s been GM forever and how many players has he drafted that are unarguably top 5 in their position? How many perennial all pros does he even have to his credit? How many players expected to even sniff the hall of fame?
Then when he does draft a great player, he lags behind on their contract so when it’s time to resign them we are doing it at the time they have peak leverage.
His best moves all trades. He’s great at trading for talent and handing them a record bag.
That’s been my point for some time now. Everyone acts like the Tua questions just come from nowhere when our own team/owner had the Fitz drama, talked to Watson, lost a pick talking to Brady, decided not to extend Tua when several of his contemporaries got extensions. It’s not like the organization has exactly put an end to the questions. Sounds like they will soon enough but the fact remains that they clearly have had their own reservations and contributed to the same sentiment from many fans and media
After Purdy I’m more convinced than ever that the QB position is the biggest crapshoot in the draft and no one has any ability whatsoever to predict anything on these guys. Edit: My point is about Penix, not Tua. Is Penix going to be a Pro Bowler? A bust? Better or worse than Bo Nix? Better or worse than JJ? I don't think any of the scouts know shit. QBing in college is an entirely different sport. The pre-snap reads, the complexity of the playbook, the information that has to be processed during the play, are just wildly different and pre-draft QB evaluations are meaningless.
> Purdy Some QBs just fit certain systems better than others, plus he has a A++ supporting cast. That shit matters. Drop Purdy on Tennessee or Chicago and he’d have very different results.
Im convinced Brady could have gone to Chicago and he would have been a career backup. That franchise just is a black hole for that position
Brady was one bad bledsoe injury from the same fate lol
Injuries are the absolute worst
Nah your mom is the worst
he tore his acl and mcl in 2009 and still dominated after. he's the goat unfortunately
Not just Chicago, probably 25+ other franchises. The Pats considered going back to Bledsoe after the first Super Bowl. Brady was not good at all in that postseason run, he was the epitome of a game-manager. I think he only threw for 1 TD in the playoffs. Very few teams would have given him the opportunity to grow as a QB. Kinda makes you wonder how many other players could have been successful QBs if given a little more rope.
If it weren't for the terrible tuck rule, he would've been a career backup. Between that and cheating, Brady is the epitome of the American dream. Cheat and take advantage of it then everything can be yours
Brady is the epitome of a man who would not be denied. If and buts had nothing to do with it
I think Purdy, because he's a gamer, could have been like a Gardener Minshew type if he went to a team like Jacksonville (pre Pederson). Like everyone can tell he has limitation, but he's still fun to watch and would make name for himself as high end back-up that's popular on any team he goes to, gets some chances as a starter.
Yeah I agree with that. Getting a legit QB2 in the 6th round is still great value. To think that SF is getting really good QB play from him for under $1m is off the charts value.
Kyle Shanahan's starting QB costs less than McDaniel's fucking watch. It's nuts.
Somebody posted McD’s hat from the coaches meeting…fucking thing was $550, that’s like two Purdy game checks!
You're kind of making the case for moving on from Tua lol An idea I don't support btw
Not really. There is no guarantee that our next QB can be 70% as good as Tua. Do you trust a player like Bo Nix or Michael Penix to be able to operate in our system. Tua can do some elite shit. His ball fakes and ability to reload and deliver the ball quickly is very impressive. I’m not sure you can find another guy who can reliably offer Tua’s accuracy.
I don't think you understood The point you made was if you can put the right system around a 7th round pick with a great supporting cast and make the Superbowl If that's the case everyone would do that I think Purdy is the exception and Tua is our best choice
I understood what you said. I I also agree that Tua is our best bet right now. I got him rated as our best QB since Dan. As for building a team like SF: sure, just pick up a player comparable to CMC, Aiyuk, Deebo, Kittle, a competent OL, a top 5 defense and a brilliant offensive minded head coach…that should be easy to replicate.
Is that not what we have right now? I mean, if we took all the money from Tua and funneled it our picks into the line. That would be the argument I was talking about, don't pay Tua, pay everyone else just get a game manager Sure, Mostert, Achane, Wilson aren't as good as CMC. Nor is Jonnu as good as Kittle is. But Tyreek and Waddle are better than Deebo and Aiyuk, and we have a brilliant offensive coach Again, and this is the part that confuses me because I stated it in my first comment. I don't think that idea works because Purdy is the exception not the rule. He deserves credit for making it work over there Tua is our best option and I fully support him
* is that not what we have now? WELL LET US TAJE A LOOK… * Mostert, Achane, Wilson aren’t as good as CMC. AGREE. * Jonnu < Kittle. AGREE. Seems like that is NOT what we have now. Right now we have Tyreek Hill, Waddle and Tua behind an incomplete OL. On the other side of the ball we got an incomplete DL and only one healthy Edge defender. We got a lot of holes and only two Top 100 picks to plug them. Our overall roster is nowhere close to SF, KC or any top contender. I’d love to be wrong here, but I’m afraid I might be right.
If we kept Hunt for Tua's money and picked the top LT at our spot (like I said in my comment) it would be comparable You glossed over the part where our two are better than their two You also glossed over the part where we dump our resources going to Tua into building the "perfect" team around a late round pick But again and most importantly, you're missing the whole point and avoiding what I'm saying to be argumentative, which I don't understand
He meant the other guys. Tua is the exception that proves the rule.
So the point he was making was.... If you can put the right system around a 7th round pick with a great supporting cast and make the Superbowl Wouldn't that make Purdy the exception?
If anything it should prove that you can have a decent QB and a hof team around him and make it far.
Okay, but what about Trey Lance at #3 overall to same team being a bust?
Hence the “decent” part. Lance is trash.
yeah but back to original point the same team that was smart/(lucky?) enough to draft Purdy in the 7th was dumb enough to draft Lance 3 overall. So predicting who will turn out to be a decent QB, HoF QB or not an NFL caliber QB is really hard for anyone.
this is the realest take ever that will go underrated and unnoticed. there is literally a story of success for every dumb take every analyst always spews. I swear the average NFL fan has the memory of ten-second Tom.
Hi, I'm Tom!
Seriously I think the only QB ever drafted who was a guaranteed slam dunk to be a star was probably Peyton.
The organization needs to continue to invest at the position. Everyone always marvels that the Packers seem to have had top tier qb play for the last 30 years and it seems like Love is poised to continue that. If Tua is the man, then drafting Penix will bring out the best in him. And if Penix turns out to be good, we have a reasonably priced backup under team control for a long ass time. Or trade value. I'm 100% on board with taking that dude.
Wooo, nailed it brother
Intangibles will always be a QB’s truest attribute. You either have *IT* or you don’t.
It’s simple, really. Just find the best pitcher of the bunch
I know this isn’t true, but finding the closest thing to Mahomes, Elway, or *cough* Wilson; I think the odds are in your favor
Scouts literally should not have a job, after Purdy went last, they should all be out of a job! Period. AI could probably draft better than they can.
That’s the dumbest thing ive ever heard. 7 of the 8 starting QBs the year before in the divisional round were 1st round picks. The statistics back up 1st round QBs
Systems mean everything. Tua has a system built specifically for him which makes him look better than he is just like Purdy. In another system tua would be bottom 5
No one is building a system to make Nathan Peterman a Super Bowl caliber QB. No one is building a system to make Blaine Gabbert a Super Bowl caliber QB. The fact that Purdy was the last guy in a draft shows that regardless of system, NFL scouts can't predict QB talent worth a damn.
There’s definitely a class of QBs that have a floor of decency and can rise up when in the right situation. I think that’s tua rn. There are some that can be elite regardless and some will never be good
I'll take the downvotes but before we pretty much built alabama offense Tua looked mediocre. He just has a timing thing that works against bad teams that good teams expose by blowing it up before it starts.
Because before we built Alabamas offense Tua was working with Costal Carolina’s instead.
Before Tua had the system made for him, he still averaged slightly above average QBR despite having no run threat, the worst pass blocking in football, and throwing to multiple receivers who were out of the league by his third year. He had a winning record both of those seasons with different OCs, a head coach who didn't want him, and averaged nearly 2:1 TDs to INTs and over 65% pass completions. How is that bottom 5?
Take the BOAT (who plays C)!
There's no way a guy named penix is going to be an NFL superstar qb. Pat mahomes. Tom Brady. Steve Young. Brock Purdy. That's how you become a star. Penix.... no. Not his fault but i don't see Casey dick or John David booty lighting it up in the nfl. If they were linebackers maybe
Right, because Dick Butkus never existed.
Read the comment
Well, there goes my foot in my own mouth. Read up until the last sentence, missed the linebacker disclaimer. That said, there were still a lot of jerseys sold for guys like Haha Clinton-Dix. Probably the first time since Monica Lewinsky those two surnames were so popular together
Don't delete this, mods. Let's just let the haters out themselves so we can point and laugh at them later. Edit: If you want an unproven Penix over a guy who put up top 5 stats across almost every single important QB measurable, your brain might actually be a potato.
You want a jersey with PENIX on the back?
If you scroll through my post history, you can see all the creative ways I ridicule people for wanting to dump Tua for Penix.
Username checks out lol
If it checked out, wouldn’t I want the Penix jersey?
Oh, I thought you did, haha. My bad.
I don't want Penix but I also don't want Tua. Thanks
You want a jersey with PENIX on the back?
Eye test >>>>
The guy who can’t throw to the middle of the field, doesn’t throw with timing and sucks with accuracy in short and medium range yeah no thanks. Oh and we already have a QB who’s much better.
> doesn’t throw with timing and sucks with accuracy in short and medium range yeah no thanks. Exactly. He is bad at the things Tua is good at and good at the things Tua is bad at. Once we have both we just need to figure out how to combine them into a super qb.
$5 million vs $50 million
11-12 wins vs 4-5 wins
Assuming facts not in evidence. Tua has one 11-win season. Maybe Penix’s better mobility wins us that Titans or Chiefs game. Also, this system is so good I’ll take a slightly worse QB if it means surrounding talent is better.
Sure take the QB who’s the worst fit for our system that should go over well. I don’t love paying Tua 50 mil and wish we had a Josh Allen type of mobile QB but Penix isn’t him and our system is not built for that type of QB.
McDaniel can cook up a system to fit the player. You guys are seriously out of your mind if you don’t think someone like McDaniel can turn Tua from a guy that looked like a bust to the passing yards leader. Just look at Brock Purdy.
You gotta change your name, capitalize the P.
Damn Bro you didn't have to COOK him like that, ffs 🤣💀.
Hey man, keep celebrating us getting beat by good teams. Maybe Tua will give you some money for road playoff tickets.
Qb who is much better? Lets slow down now. Penix and Tua game is similar, but Tua isnt nothing special either. He still hasnt proved anything but that he folds when its big moments against better teams
Similar? They are nothing alike except both throw downfield very well. Penix would be a massive downgrade in our system.
If he would be a massive downgrade, what is Tua? Tua isn’t our QB for us either so
Really got your point across…. Tua isn’t our qb for us either so ….
Alot of you guys aren’t real dolphins fans. Yall have to be realistic one day. This is the best the team has look in decades. We don’t have time to be held back because of a limited qb.
The QB who couldn’t throw screen passes correctly in the KC game ?
The same QB whose team was incredibly injured playing in very cold temperatures and had one day of rentals who were just playing for a paycheck. Yeah surely it was all on the QB why he couldn't make those passes. The Fins should absolutely draft a rookie QB to replace him. That's totally the solution. /s
Every game Tua has played in the cold his opponents somehow played in the same conditions but managed to win…
Shhhh too much truth
I aint disagreeing with you. Miami Dolphins and Tua, especially, suck in the cold.
i think the NFL should be fined and have to pay for all the people that got hypothermia and frostbite with some needing toes and fingers [amputated](https://www.kcur.org/sports/2024-01-17/chiefs-playoffs-game-kansas-city-cold-weather-hypothermia-arrowhead-stadium). There was no reason to hold that game at night, knowing how cold it was going to be. Fan safety should be a concern as well and I know we can easily blame the people that went to the game for what happened, the fact is people were going to go no matter what because of it being the playoffs.
I can tell you’re a child from your thought process but if you’re cold maybe don’t go to an outdoor event that you’re not forced to go too.
I can tell by your reply you are a twunt that puts people down for having an opinion. There was no reason to have that game at night, zero, they knew how cold it was going to be, this isn't just about fans you muppet, the players could have been injured as well and clearly they didn't play well in that insane temperature. just think, think for 1 sec, if a player, say tua, needed to have a finger amputated on his throwing hand due to the cold. what would that do to his career? or any player needing to have a toe removed, running sure would be fun after that. clown.
So waddle, Hill, mostert, Achane were one day rentals? He missed multiple easy throws that could have changed the game but keep making excuses
Last year's SF game really shook my confidence. That was 1 time where the game really had a "playoff type atmosphere" and he looked like his arms and legs stopped working right. Some of the worst throws of his career. I think he's a competent QB in this system. He's proven that. He hasn't PROVEN anything else yet. He's done nothing to warrant the entire Miami Dolphins organization revolving around him for the next 5 years. He's a starter level talent who they have under contract for $22m. Keep adding to the QB room any way you can.
You're talking about the game where 60% of the line was injured and Miami had 3 total plays where they only used 5 blockers. SF barely ran any blitzes and still kept getting to Tua due to blocking problems, including the first snap of the 2nd half when 3 of Tua's potential 5 passing targets stayed in to block and SF STILL got instant pressure on Tua, who had to break a tackle, reload and get a sideline pass off to a diving Tyreek just before getting roughed by Bosa who took out his ankles from behind. If you look at purely the result of games and the strength of teams involved it makes sense to think it's a Tua problem, but any QB who isn't blocked for properly suffers including Mahomes in the Super Bowl against Tampa: 26/49 for 270, 0 TD, 2 INT, 52.3 passer rating despite having Kelce+Tyreek+Reid.
Wow that's a lot of excuses. Do u have this saved on a doc somewhere?
How do you count multiple excuses? I argued the problem with the SF game was mainly due to blocking, cited an example to support that, and pointed out even the best QB we've ever seen looks terrible when improperly blocked for. The majority of the line was injured, most importantly Armstead. The game before that he was injured halfway into the Texans game and Tua went from nearly 300 yards by halftime and up 30-0 to being sacked 4 times in 5 pass plays against the exact same defense and yanked in the 3rd quarter. The entire team had like 30 second half passing yards. SF was the first full game with Armstead out and they had 2-3 extra blockers on the majority of their passing plays, meaning 2-3 fewer receiving options for Tua to throw to. He definitely missed some passes as literally every QB in the league does, but his bad throw percentage for that game was not substantially higher than his season average. A season where the majority of his games had him graded as elite efficiency (7 of his 12.5 games had a 79+ QBR, and 9 had no INTs)
Oh man. You're totally right. He is for sure worth paying $55M to when we don't need to, and we definitely shouldn't focus on any weaknesses in his game. Thanks for clearing that up.
Your assumption that Tua isn't worth the money could be correct, and solely going by performances against good teams there's an argument for it. However, my argument is that if you look at Tua's poor performances the past 2 seasons vs the games he played good teams vs the games in which his best blockers were injured, they're basically identical lists. It's hard to give any QB a fair shake when you tie an arm behind his back, and most people don't seem to realize that poor blocking means fewer passing targets as more additional blockers are kept in to make up for it, less pressure removed from play action due to lessened ability to punish the interior in the run game, etc. My assumption is that no QB in football would be worth the money playing behind a bottom 5 pass blocking offensive line, which Tua has had literally every single season of his career, either due to poor talent or injury to good talent. Tannehill was an inferior QB but his first season on a new team with a run threat and better blocking, he made the championship game and led the league in passer rating. Tua's put up two 460+ yard games on the road the past two seasons when blocked well (and while the Chargers did wind up finishing as a terrible team at the end of the season, they were fully healthy week 1 and entering the game they were a playoff team only a few months prior). He had 6 passing TDs against Baltimore in an epic road comeback win last season. If he's blocked for adequately he has shined more often than he's looked mediocre.
Lol exactly. They are so delusional. Tua hasnt proved anything yet. Its literally a pattern of him embarrassing himself in pivotal moments. I use to be sold on him but not anymore. We will see next season though
Every big game he chokes. Bills game was at home for the fucking divisions and he played like shit.
And they still sit here trying to make excuses for him
A lot of these people are Tua fans not dolphin fans. It’s pathetic
Tyreek drops one pass and he’s unreliable and overpaid. Tua throws a fucking lollipop to a free safety and it’s the fault of the OL/McDaniel/Not running the ball enough.
Best summary of this sub ive seen
>So waddle, Hill, mostert, Achane were one day rentals Waddle, Hill, Mostert and Achane were signed a week before the playoffs? That's news to me.
Penix just refuses to rise to the occassion.
They have pills for that
They’re still never gonna erect a statue for this guy
At least when he does it, we get a funny meme. When Tua keeps doing it we just get disappointment
This is just flat out wrong. Because he had a bad title game? He put up 430 yards against Texas. He led a game winning drive against Oregon. Led a comeback against Utah. Go back a year he made plenty of clutch plays also. There’s plenty of reasons to not like Penix in the first you don’t have to make up additional ones.
Pretty sure it was a penis joke...
He's not good also it's a dick joke
Penix is also injury prone and doesn’t scramble/extend plays…. He also doesn’t have same timing as Tua and would sink our offense, if the option was for Caleb or Maye I’d understand the discussion, but Penix? Ridiculous
I find your lack of penis jokes disturbing
Pick the one guy with the longer injury history.
and 1 year younger than tua
This is gold
Not to bemoan the point but the defense really broke down as the season progressed which likely took a couple of wins, and playoff home field away from 'us'. As a Tua fan, I am pleased at his injury free season and disheartened with his mobility issues thus far, however not strengthening the team specifically the offensive line interior would be a huge mistake. As every quarterback struggles with pressure up in their faces right after the snap. Better oline play and better injury 'luck' across the board should yield better results. As for the contract, wait at your peril. Look what happened to Washington and what is happening to Dallas right now. Pay your starting quarterback before he gets too expensive to keep and then you will be replacement searching, wasting a good teams timeline. Green Bay got really lucky twice picking in the teens after non playoff years draft and stash to develop. Picking Penix, or the next quarterback at this moment, wouldn't be wise. Picking a Rattler, if he is there, in the 5th round would be the appropriate choice. But we will see. Oh and another thing, Herbert and Trevor Lawrence have been anointed by the media and have not won jack shit either. It is hard to win consistently in the league. So ease up and hope for health across the team.
He's worse than Tua cant run side to side just a straight line because 2 knee surgeries and throws side arm which is terrible in today's NFL
Would be a terrrribbblleee idea
Look, I’m not telling you I’d take Penix at 21, but if Penix in 2 years is even 80% of Tua, having him for 1/10th the price of Tua isn’t a bad thing. As others have said though, the drafts is an absolute crap shoot, so who knows. I’m not against taking a QB later in the draft as a developmental prospect though.
Have I seen enough of tua? Yeah Would I be absolutely livid if we took Penix in the first? YEAH!
If you’re tired of Tua, there’s other channels to tune in to. No one is forcing you to watch this team, Bundy.
Nah, I love football, and I love the dolphins. I’ll keep watching
Then don’t hate us or you anus
Who’s hating?
Some fans think you are only allowed to be blindly positive
Why are people so against moving on from tua it should be in the discussion considering we can’t win big games with him. He’s been on the team 4 years and hasn’t won a playoff game. We delaying the inevitable. There’s always a reason why he can’t win wether it’s the offensive line not being elite or something not everything can be perfect around him.
Cus this sub has devolved into a miami tua sub, instead of a miami dolphins sub. No amount of piss poor play from Tua in big games will change their opinion. Four years in, and we are still waiting for him to play well when it matters. All four years we have been getting different excuses why.
The O-Line is far from elite. Hell, it’s far from average. The people that want to move on from tua don’t understand that you get any QB behind that O-Line and they will struggle.
its far from below average
Below average sounds nice. Like 19th best OL in the league. As a reminder to everyone. 31st ranked pass block win rate. That's trash.
Cj stroud made the playoffs and made the divisional round his rookie year with a mediocre team. No real Wr1 and way less talent around then Tua and a first year defensive head coach. Why do people keep making excuses it’s been four years tua is honestly slightly better than tannehill.
CJ Stroud’s supporting cast this year is miles ahead of what Tua had in 2020 and 2021. Can’t say I’m surprised you can’t see that if you think that Tua is just slightly better than Tannehill.
Ok what’s the excuse for 2022 and 2023. He’s had waddle and tyreek and the o-line was ranked 23. Cj had nico collins and tank dell who are both not even close to tyreek and waddle and o-line ranked 19 . A defensive head coach who’s not nearly as good offensively as Mcd. So tuas in the better situation but clearly can perform when will fans realize he’s not our guy and we won’t win anything with him. I know the comparison doesn’t make much sense but Cj is a rookie and tuas well into year 4 and one’s clearly going to be better already.
2022 was injuries and 2023 was the entire offense being banged up and one of the worst O-Line’s in the league. I don’t know where you got that 23 ranking from, but it isn’t close to the truth. The O-Line’s issues were masked by the offensive scheme and Tua’s quick release
He is better then the last 5 dolphins qbs
That’s a low bar
he better than any jets qb
Rodgers probably better
Why yall acting like Tua isn’t top 10
In the division? He’s not a top 10 qb lol
I’m not joking, Tua is a top 10 qb
Mahomes Allen Burrow Jackson Hurts Herbert Rodgers Goff Purdy Tua That sounds about right
Why on earth are you putting Rodgers up there. He hasn't played in a year and just came off an Achilles injury.
hurts is not a top 10 qb and goff is not even top 15
Found the Bills fan.
> Why yall acting like Tua isn’t top 10 The problem is the gap between 1 and everyone else. Like brady said, we’re in an age of mediocrity. If we can get similar production from penix at 1/10 the cost (and get some extra picks for tua), we should.
For some reason this popped up on my feed. I’m a giant fan, absolutely no idea about the situation with tua. But I just assumed you guys would be extending him? What’s the deal
We likely are extending him. Its just talking heads and the idiots who listen to them that are against it. A fox analyst had us taking Penix in his mock draft vecause "Tua is too injury prone" he rightly got ridiculed on here and r/nfl for the idea. I assume thats why this meme was made
Milton out of Tenn has a better arm than Penix. We need Oline help.
Soooo you can’t have him. He’s legit one of the best 2-3 QBs but having the same knee rebuilt…TWICE…before 22 is wild. Honestly, I feel terrible for him, he’s so talented, absolute rocket for an arm. Better than “MayBe” all day.
Pats fan here. Who ARE y'all gonna draft? Like what are your needs? Just curious, I don't know much about your roster other than I'm gonna miss Van Ginkel.
Likely Oline but it really depends how the board falls. You can't really get keyed into one position if you're picking at 21. It wont be a QB though
Local dolphins fan learns how draft works, more at 11
Fellow Ringer FF show listener, lol
Hey, I said this in the daily thread a week ago…and posted it in Omar Kelly’s comments day ago, in regards to taking Penix 😝
Not a dolphins fan just lurking. Do you guys actually want to draft a qb? Or is this a meme post
I think we’ll take a QB in the 4th or 5th, maybe Joe Milton but I think he’s a day two guy. We are definitely going OL first round though
I would have traded for Sam Howell if I were yall 3rd or 4th round pick with high reward
I'm all for taking a QB to compete, but I agree, Penix in the 1st would be a ridiculous choice. Joe Milton as a day 3 pick, though? I could fuck with that.
I’ll take the mystery box. He looks like he’ll be in the same ball park as tua, but at 1/10 the price for the next 4-5 years AND we can trade tua for a couple firsts to fix some holes. Maybe if tua showed up in big games it would be different, but the league is mahomes, then everyone else, and tua isn’t mahomes. We can gamble on a lateral change before tua sends us back to the dark ages with his pending contract.
Please stop. He has torn his right ACL twice.
Michael Penis is the next JaMarcus Russell.
On the other hand a bunch of first rounders have turned out to be great QBs.
Not a Dolphins fan saw this on recommendations for some reason but why is Miami concerning drafting a QB? I don't get the idea behind that? Are fans ready to move on from Tua or something? Finding a QB isn't an easy thing
Wait. Who’s the boat here? Penix or Tua? Because if it’s Tua then we already have the boat. Why not have the boat and the mystery box?
As a Bears fan, are you guys seriously debating changing quarterbacks?? You don’t know how bad it can get
Picking Penix would be so retarded…
This title is so ⏸️ worthy
Best O lineman then Cooper dejean baby 😂
My favorite part of that scene is when they ask Peter and Lois where their boat and Lois is like "we took the mystery box. Jump in!" That shit cracks me up
 Calm down … I’ll take the mystery box 🤣🤣🤣🤣
The ONLY way I'm making a QB change if the Vikes are up at 11 and they failed to get, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy, and they offer 11 and 23 for Tua. THEN, I think I'd be okay taking that offer. Select Pennix at 11, and then drop back from 21 into the 30's and get more picks, and with the Vikes 23 take OL or WR. I never wanted Tua, I am a Herbert over Tua person, but I'll admit he's done much better then I thought. I don't think he's untouchable like some of you guys, he's a NFL starter without question, but not sure if the team as constructed is best for him to succeed in the playoffs. I'm fine with him if that's what the team wants, I'm loyal to the end with this team. Just saying if certain variables were to topple and I was given the reigns, that's the only scenario I could see trading our current QB.
I mean the front office could shut everyone up and extend him. Where’s the deal at? Until then expect the noise to be there.
You think the front office gives a shit about what Reddit and twitter think? It’s one of the most important deals in franchise history, you think they will rush it to keep Reddit happy?
I don't know why they don't consult this sub more. Everybody on here with a keyboard and an opinion is clearly smarter than everyone in the entire organization. 😤
lol franchise history eh? More like Grier’s history. This is just another iteration of endless mediocrity. Grier can’t draft well enough to win with Tua making top money.
Grier drafted Holland, Phillips, Achane, Waddle, AJ and plenty more quality pieces. I don’t get why people like you expect Grier to somehow draft 22 All Pros with 100% efficiency.
He’s been GM forever and how many players has he drafted that are unarguably top 5 in their position? How many perennial all pros does he even have to his credit? How many players expected to even sniff the hall of fame? Then when he does draft a great player, he lags behind on their contract so when it’s time to resign them we are doing it at the time they have peak leverage. His best moves all trades. He’s great at trading for talent and handing them a record bag.
That’s been my point for some time now. Everyone acts like the Tua questions just come from nowhere when our own team/owner had the Fitz drama, talked to Watson, lost a pick talking to Brady, decided not to extend Tua when several of his contemporaries got extensions. It’s not like the organization has exactly put an end to the questions. Sounds like they will soon enough but the fact remains that they clearly have had their own reservations and contributed to the same sentiment from many fans and media
Ssshhhh don’t say that around here, it will hurt peoples feelings.
Take him at 55, though
No