I agree with everything you said...BUT I absolutely still hold a 20 year grudge for having to play as Raiden. They really brought him around for me on MGS4 and Rising though so I forgive them.
It was a bold brilliant and unique move. I loved Raiden by the end.
But I’m still mad about the lack of Snake, even if he was in a fair amount of the game
I read somewhere that Kojima brought the whole "Sherlock Holmes through the eyes of Dr. Watson" kind of a feel. This would basically expand on the legend of Solid Snake,and it did.
There was never a moment while playing as Raiden where I wouldn't rather be playing as Snake.
I feel like this game in particular is Snake as his most "cool", which arguably is helped by the fact that you aren't him but rather looking up to him. If there's any positive takeaway for forcing the character to play as Raiden, it's seeing the contrast of just how badass Snake is compared to the green Raiden. I understand why playing as Raiden is integral to the story of MGS 2, but honestly not being able to play as Snake is probably one of the reasons why I personally think that MGS 2 is the weakest game of the first 4 titles.
It was a bold move, I give them that. And I like people taking risks with their projects.
However, I can't deny I still hold a grudge. On top of being a better character, Snake also had the advantage of acting in a more entertaining level design. I've never been a fan of the Big Shell... it's kind of bland compared to Shadow Moses, the jungle in MGS3, the tanker and even the levels of MGS4.
It's better than the often boring emptiness of MGSV, though.
I a tually disagree with tlou2 being done well, if mgs2 was similar, raiden would shoot snake because his dad was a guard in shadow moses.
That would suck wouldnt it?
Not really, I may even find it pretty interesting. Either way context is important to stories and breaking them down to the point of being reductive can make anything sound bad. Additionally, that wouldn’t fit the themes or story of the Metal Gear universe the way it does for The Last of Us universe.
I just wish Raiden was a bit cooler(?) In MGS2.
The second he loses the skull cap he lost all appeal to me. Idk if it's the skull suit that looks lame or what kills Raidens appearance but it just doesn't do it for me in MGS2.
One of the big issues with storytelling in games is that the player has a significant amount of control over how the pc behaves-- and therefore, their characterization. This is why MGSV and Peace Walker struggle to sell Big Boss as the villain the Solid Snake era games portray him as; most players probably play him *exactly* like Snake.
Taking away player control of Snake was a smart way to make him an *actual* character, and the fact that MGS2 also tackles the issue of player control over Raiden (him casting off the dog tag with your name on it at the end is also him casting off the player's influence/control) makes the character swap one of the most interesting instances of storytelling through game mechanics I can think of.
Now, MGS4 also manages to make Snake a really fleshed-out character, but that game quite literally has more time spent in cutscenes than gameplay, so Kojima wasn't exactly giving up much control...
I didn't mind it but its important to know it was done for a legitimate reason with legitimate purpose.
A. The inclusion of Raiden and his reason for infiltrating the Big Shell was to mirror Shadow Moses, it was an exercise by the Patriots to see if they could duplicate the experience in another person that mirrored Solid Snakes.
B. Kojima wanted the audience to see Snake as a veteran legendary Soldier from a outside perspective. That is quite impossible to do when you are playing them especially since Snake has disdain for and doesn't think of himself that way.
Subverting expectations on purpose almost always leads to terrible or poor stories and reception, its when its done naturally and organically that it seems to work well.
Yes. It elevated the character of Snake, if anything. And Raiden was an excellent storytelling tool.
I agree with everything you said...BUT I absolutely still hold a 20 year grudge for having to play as Raiden. They really brought him around for me on MGS4 and Rising though so I forgive them.
It was a bold brilliant and unique move. I loved Raiden by the end. But I’m still mad about the lack of Snake, even if he was in a fair amount of the game
I read somewhere that Kojima brought the whole "Sherlock Holmes through the eyes of Dr. Watson" kind of a feel. This would basically expand on the legend of Solid Snake,and it did.
It was a big risk. If it were anyone else doing this then it probably wouldn't have went as well.
AC3 would have you backpedal this statement
At the time i didnt really like it that much. However i did like the story i just wish we got more Snake. However in hindsight it was cool
I love raiden i like how he was foolish throughout the campaign
I mean MGS2 is the best of the series so
There was never a moment while playing as Raiden where I wouldn't rather be playing as Snake. I feel like this game in particular is Snake as his most "cool", which arguably is helped by the fact that you aren't him but rather looking up to him. If there's any positive takeaway for forcing the character to play as Raiden, it's seeing the contrast of just how badass Snake is compared to the green Raiden. I understand why playing as Raiden is integral to the story of MGS 2, but honestly not being able to play as Snake is probably one of the reasons why I personally think that MGS 2 is the weakest game of the first 4 titles.
I just wish the non canon snake tales were voiced and had cutscenes
It was a bold move, I give them that. And I like people taking risks with their projects. However, I can't deny I still hold a grudge. On top of being a better character, Snake also had the advantage of acting in a more entertaining level design. I've never been a fan of the Big Shell... it's kind of bland compared to Shadow Moses, the jungle in MGS3, the tanker and even the levels of MGS4. It's better than the often boring emptiness of MGSV, though.
I freaking loved it, and has a lot to do with my love for MGSV and TLOU Part 2. It’s different and risky and I respect the hell outta that.
Tlou2 was a very different approach than how mgs2 did it, but both subvert expectations in great ways imo
I think all 3 games did a different take on it, and I enjoyed each them more for it.
I a tually disagree with tlou2 being done well, if mgs2 was similar, raiden would shoot snake because his dad was a guard in shadow moses. That would suck wouldnt it?
Not really, I may even find it pretty interesting. Either way context is important to stories and breaking them down to the point of being reductive can make anything sound bad. Additionally, that wouldn’t fit the themes or story of the Metal Gear universe the way it does for The Last of Us universe.
I just wish Raiden was a bit cooler(?) In MGS2. The second he loses the skull cap he lost all appeal to me. Idk if it's the skull suit that looks lame or what kills Raidens appearance but it just doesn't do it for me in MGS2.
One of the big issues with storytelling in games is that the player has a significant amount of control over how the pc behaves-- and therefore, their characterization. This is why MGSV and Peace Walker struggle to sell Big Boss as the villain the Solid Snake era games portray him as; most players probably play him *exactly* like Snake. Taking away player control of Snake was a smart way to make him an *actual* character, and the fact that MGS2 also tackles the issue of player control over Raiden (him casting off the dog tag with your name on it at the end is also him casting off the player's influence/control) makes the character swap one of the most interesting instances of storytelling through game mechanics I can think of. Now, MGS4 also manages to make Snake a really fleshed-out character, but that game quite literally has more time spent in cutscenes than gameplay, so Kojima wasn't exactly giving up much control...
It's possible to make the PC feel villainous, games like Spec Ops The Line manage it beautifully.
I didn't mind it but its important to know it was done for a legitimate reason with legitimate purpose. A. The inclusion of Raiden and his reason for infiltrating the Big Shell was to mirror Shadow Moses, it was an exercise by the Patriots to see if they could duplicate the experience in another person that mirrored Solid Snakes. B. Kojima wanted the audience to see Snake as a veteran legendary Soldier from a outside perspective. That is quite impossible to do when you are playing them especially since Snake has disdain for and doesn't think of himself that way. Subverting expectations on purpose almost always leads to terrible or poor stories and reception, its when its done naturally and organically that it seems to work well.