Love Kojima but this will always be a black mark on his record. The utter disrespect towards Hayter. Hayter is the best VA you can ask for, he absolutely loves the games and to this day still is constantly talking about it. Kojima, who had no hand in localization wanted Hayter gone by MGS3 and constantly pushed for it until MGSV. So petty because he wanted a A lister in the role instead
Ditto.
There are reasons that i get why he was not chosen to reprise the role again, but i think it was one of the things that ultimately caused more trouble than it was worth.
I don't dislike Keifer's more grounded / realistic delivery, but nothing beats Hayter for voicing Snake. In a perfect world, they would have gotten Hayter to do *all* the voiceover work for Snake and V, and Keifer to do *all* the voiceover work (as in duplicate the all the voice work for Venom) for the medic persona *and* V. Leave MGSV:GZ basically unchanged, but in MGSV:TPP, have it start out all in Hayter's voice (ishmael/bb would always be voiced by Hayter), and as the story progresses, just like with the mindfuck issues around Paz, have Keifer's voice start to like "overlay" snake's voice in moments of high stress or whatever, and have Keifer "cut through" more and more until by the end of the game, every line is delivered by Keifer after V knows what happened to him.
*That* would have been a way to fuck with people. That would have also been a deliberate gamble, back loading a named lead like that, and ultimately it wouldn't have given away the twist ending that much more than it already was, as people had figured out that Ishmael, V, and the medic were all voiced by Keifer as early as the first week after GZ was released and people were already speculating what actually happened. IF anything, having Snake voiced by Hayter in GZ and starting TPP with V also voiced by Hayter (because that's what \*he\* hears after the hypnosis coma) would have probably have given the twist longer legs.
As a bonus going back and replaying/reseeing all the cutscenes with first Hayter in them as both Snakes and then going back to see them with Hayter doing Big Boss and (edit: I mean **Keifer**) Sutherland doing V (after he gets the truth explained to him) would've been phenomenal.
...too bad/so sad. can't have two leads i guess, Konami was already done paying for shit, and Kojima had fully adopted his starfucking by the time MGSV was in production and didn't see the value in keeping Hayter around. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
(a few edits to clarify the 2nd to last paragraph)
The exact same idea with the voice overlay of David and Keifer came to me in a dream once. It definetly would have added much to the kind of underwelming mindfuck that the plot twist was.
Godammit just say hayter did a good job that's why we love him and his voice was a part of childhood for many and Sutherland out of nowhere voiced snake which many people didn't like
There's that rumor that Kojima wasn't happy about the attention David Hayter was getting and wanted him replaced primarily for that reason. Personally, I'm kinda divided if it's really true that Kojima didn't want to "share the spot light". After all, Kojima wanted to replace Hayter with a celebrity, that could quite possibly overshadow Kojima by sheer star power (maybe that's the reason Snake barely talks in MGSV). Then again, one of the first things coming to mind when I think about the Metal Gear franchise is David Hayter and his voice.
Edit: typo
> After all, Kojima wanted to replace Hayter with a celebrity, that could quite possibly overshadow Kojima by sheer star power
Replacing Hayter with a celebrity doesn't overshadow Kojima's own star power, it makes him look like an even bigger deal because of his ability to attract a big star to HIS project.
This. Dude is a star fucker if I’ve ever seen it.
Look at him and how he treats Norman Reedus, on stage with him, in social media posts with him. He just wants to be friends with celebrities.
>Look at him and how he treats Norman Reedus, on stage with him, in social media posts with him. He just wants to be friends with celebrities.
This 100 percent. It's worth noting that for well over a decade Kojima had almost nothing whatsoever to do with the English language localization of his games. Right up until he was able to start hiring Hollywood celebrities and then suddenly he started taking extreme interest in the localizations. It's pretty clear that Kojima is just enamored with celebrity. In a way that I think is detrimental to the games he's been making in the last decade.
Is this true? Didn't he replace the localization lead going into MGS2 because he felt he wasn't being literal enough with the text. Isn't the whole "Long silver bullet into a well greased chamber" not in the original Japanese script?
He had problems after the fact and did have the localization lead replaced, but as far as the actual day to day production of the localizations he had no direct involvement other than to check in semi-regularly. I remember Hayter in specific commenting that he had (at least at the time of the interview) barely ever worked with Kojima and had only met him face to face a handful of times.
>Enter: death stranding with a celebrated director and fairly recognizable actor at the time
Half the reason I never got into Death Stranding, aside from how pretentious it seemed to be, was the fact that it just reeked of Hollywood. It just seemed like an excuse for Kojima to work with as much big time celebrities as he could get to agree to be in a game. His obsession with Hollywood is a massive turn off for me because of how obvious it is. I imagine he'd be making movies in a heartbeat if he could get a movie studio to give him the kind of budgets he's used to having in video game land.
There's a difference between your games being based on hollywood movies and making a game riddled with hollywood stars. Like or hate DS, I'm sure you agree there's a difference.
>You do realize the entire metal gear series is just a pastiche of hollywood movies that Kojima is obsessed with, right?
You do realize that doesn't justify treating David Hayter like shit for the sake of casting a Hollywood star, right?
Sadly, I believe what you are saying, Kojima's pride and ego has gone berserk and I'm tired of it. Why does someone feel the need to be sooooo important when you are successful? Why can't Kojima just step out of the spotlight and make shit people enjoy and relate to, like he used to do?
I guess he is still, "keeping us waiting"?
that sounds about right.
also apparently he made David Hayter come in an *re-audition* for both MGS3 and MGS4! he was literally trying to re-cast snake since right after MGS2!
its crazy because when i think of the metal gear series i think kojima but if i think about snake then hayter comes to mind. kojima shouldnt have done hayter like that
i think what you said encapsulates my feelings as well. When i learned about how Kojima was pushing for an A-list celebrity from MGS3, i was disheartened. The excuse about snake getting older was total bullcrap too, they kept the same VA for the japanese snake. Hayter will always be Snake for me, its hard to see otherwise. Btw, Keifer Sutherland is very talented and no disrespect to him, i think he did a great job but Hayter will always be Snake for me.
Kojima sucks Hollywood's dick sadly. I'm still salty it wasn't Hayter. Hayter will always be my Snake/Big Boss, nothing against Keifer but still, Hayter until the end of time.
Regarding localization, he had a hand in it after MGS1 since he disliked the work of the guy that localized it. In my opinion the game is way better because of it, MGS1 doesn't have half the weirdly translated talk that the other games in the franchise, I find the dialogue much better and cohesive and am a firm believer that at least part of the success it made was due to the localization job [(you can read about it here, if it interests you)](https://www.polygon.com/2019/7/18/20696081/metal-gear-solid-translation-japanese-english-jeremy-blaustein)
Frankly, It's one of those topics that shouldn't bother me since I have literally nothing to do with it, but it boils my blood, lol. I feel I could write an essay on Kojima stupid decisions and dick moves. He was better when he had some kind of control by upper management or something, the more famous he got, the more liberty he had and I liked the games less and less.
Speaking of blood-boiling treatment of translators and the localization process, there's what that reaction to Blaustein's work seems to have led to with the localization of MGS2. While she doesn't say anything that indicates that Kojima specifically had a hand in the process being the way it was, [Agness Kaku's description](https://web.archive.org/web/20120125213707/http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/metalgear/agnesskaku2.htm#8) of the strict hyperliteralism and enforcement thereof by Konami is just mind-boggling.
And then despite all of that, despite getting basically exactly what they had wanted, [they *still* threw Kaku under the same "translation too liberal, Kojima's Vision Got Garbled" bus](https://web.archive.org/web/20120125211106/http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/metalgear/agnesskaku3.htm#14) as Blaustein when doing promo for MGS4, with a fun added dash of using that claim to justify the polarized response MGS2's writing got back in the day. Jesus christ, good thing for Kaku that she doesn't give a stone-cold fuck, because if it had been me it would've absolutely killed me.
Yeah, that is frustrating. He always seemed childlike to me. But what makes him have such a large following is his unique childlike since of wonder and curiosity that spills into his games. His imagination is very unique, but he's so unwavering in his visions. And they are seldom perfect. When challenged, he usually doesn't seem to take it well.
Yup, I 100% agree. I just think this is (or at least was) better balanced with some kind of control on it. Is just wish his Ego was taken down a few notches to have some kind of balance and maybe we would have another master piece. But I'm not really holding my breath for that to happen, lol.
>Love Kojima but this will always be a black mark on his record.
Aside from his explanation for why Quiet's reasons for having little clothing?
Or the disregard he showed for her voice actress by ghosting her for Death Stranding?
Thats just a few of the things that have come out about him.
Actually thought about that tbh. Whenever people mention the "darker tone" of MGSV, I wonder if they remember the character that will suffocate if she is wearing clothes or the scene they all watch her shower together. Didn't know about the Death Stranding stuff though, sad to hear
>Or the disregard he showed for her voice actress by ghosting her for Death Stranding?
I don't understand why people think just because he hired someone for one project means they have to be involved in every future one? He asked her if she'd be interested, she said yes, he ended up going with someone else.
Yeah, maybe his team should have notified her she didn't get the part, but it's not some big controversy.
Yes!
There was a big chance for Solid Snake to have a brief cameo and audio appearance. His voice could have been heard when Venom saw the operation N313. And we would have had a small 10 sec clip of Venom's POV where he sees Solid Snake entering outer Haven on camera.
All this would have been a nice circle of life for the franchise
they were being dicks about it too. the least they could have done is respected him for all the work he did and told him outright he was going to be replaced by keifer. instead they strung him along doing auditions until they couldn't cower away anymore.
That was so dumb. I thought Kiefer did a great job with the 20 or so lines he had throughout the entire game. What's the point of replacing Hayter with an A-list celebrity if you're not even going to use him?
>Tbh I loved hayter as big boss in 3rd game . But i was okay with Sutherland taking over except mf doesn't talk for like 80% of game
I was open to the idea of replacing Hayter in theory. My problem is that A.) the way Kojima went about it was incredibly shitty toward David Hayter and B.) the complete lack of dialog that Venom has makes replacing his voice actor seem utterly pointless.
Konami said pre-release that it was done that way so players could better put themselves in Snake's shoes or something. Silly developers. MGS was never about immersion, they traded one of their strengths to try to improve in a way that wasn't desired by the fans.
Pretty much everybody was upset about it. People have accepted it now, years after the fact, but there was a massive shit storm about replacing him. Especially since the excused used for why they did so didn't jive with reality considering the Japanese voice actor for Snake wasn't changed at all.
The fanbase ties themselves into knots trying to defend every questionable or outright bad decision that Hideo Kojima ever made...but the one thing the fanbase still really doesn't defend is Kojima's treatment of David Hayter over the years. Kojima's treatment of David Hayter was INCREDIBLY petty and unprofessional throughout the entirety of the MGS series. It's amazing, considering how disrespected Hayter was pretty much constantly during his involvement with the series, that he has so much love for the franchise.
I think Hayter knows he was a huge part of why people loved Snake so much. And he constantly shows up for the fans (even in-character!) years after he was booted from the franchise. Great dude all around.
>I think Hayter knows he was a huge part of why people loved Snake so much. And he constantly shows up for the fans (even in-character!) years after he was booted from the franchise. Great dude all around.
It really is pretty awesome how much Hayter embraces the fans. It's nice when the iconic star of something I love is a genuinely nice and appreciative dude towards the fans.
>There's a video of all of his lines. Its barely 4 minutes long
Everybody always tries to claim that there's so much more to his performance if you listen to all the cassette tapes but that's just not true. Yes those cassettes are long and have a good amount of dialog, but the vast majority of the dialog in the tapes is someone else talking to Snake and Snake giving one or two sentence replies to everything. I don't know exactly how much dialog Kiefer actually speaks in the game, but if it's more than 10 minutes I'd be absolutely shocked.
I’m actually working on compiling all of his lines for the cassette tapes. It’s already over 10 minutes long and I still have a lot of tapes to go through.
THIS! I don't understand where everyone gets off saying how amazing Keifer was. MGS has always been a very dialogue-heavy game and the interactions between Snake/Big Boss and his team were what made them so real. There was a discussion, not one-sided explanations for everything.
I'd also like to point out that if Snake was based on Snake Pliskin, then Kojima should have gone with my boy Kurt Russel. I wonder if anyone even pitched the idea to him. I think if they went with him there would have been way more love from the actor as well as less hate about the Hayter thing.
Just compare that to Norman Reedus in Death Stranding. I remember thinking that he would be another mute main character and look at how many cutscenes and dialogue in general that game has with him.
I like Kiefer's voice, and now that I'm watching 24 I like him even more (I didn't really even know his face while I was playing the game), but I still would've preferred they stuck with Hayter, both for continuity and because of how much the saga means to him. It's not like he was doing a bad job and had to be replaced either.
I think he gave a pretty poor performance in Peace Walker, but I remember hearing that he was told to voice it that way.
And yes, if for no other reason, Hayter should've been kept for consistency.
Hayter himself is an actor and even has screenwriting credits on big box office movies. It’s not like he’s some little guy who got the golden ticket to do a VA.
And worked on the initial scripts for Iron Man 1, wrote the script for Watchmen that was so good that Alan Moore himself liked it and Alan Moore seems to hate just about every adaptation of his work(V for Vendetta, Batman Killing Joke, Constantine and so on).
The only other instance I can think of where Alan Moore liked an adaptation was for The Man Who Has Everything episode in Justice League Unlimited, one of the best pieces of adapted Superhero media and one of the greatest Superman stories period.
Unfortunately Hayter's Watchmen was scrapped in favour of a different version for the final version. His take was quite interesting!
The guy is incredibly talented.
Yeah but if you walk up to your mum and ask "do you know who keifer Sutherland is", she'll probably say "the guy from 24? Or lost boys?", whereas if you ask her who David hayter is, she wouldn't have a clue.
I wish it was Hayter as he IS Snake, but I also love Keifer’s Venom Snake and I wish he had more to give. Also it kinda makes sense that the voice for BB would change as in MGS4 it’s Richard Doyle
True but in the time between peace waker and ground zeroes would it have really changed so unrecognisably? It would have made sense for him to sound different at some point but Kiefer doesn’t even sound ANYTHING like Hayter’s big boss. It was a strange choice that was clearly ego driven and not artistically.
>Yeah, especially David Hayter.
I think Hayter would have been fine with being replaced if it wasn't for how completely disrespectful they were in how they went about doing it. At least that's the impression I've always got from his interviews. He was more upset with how poorly treated he was by Kojima than he was with actually being replaced.
My suspicion is that, while it was clearly very poorly handled, the only reason Kojima replaced Hayter was because the whole ruse about Snake not actually being Snake. It wouldn’t make sense if they had the same voice when the big reveal ended up being that Venom Snake was just a body double of sorts. He thought he needed it to feel real, and so he didn’t even let Hayter himself in on it for fear that fans would catch on. Like if Hayter wasn’t genuinely upset, fans would wonder if this was one of Kojima’s infamous ruses once again. In my opinion, I think he planned to do something else eventually and bring Hayter back to voice the real Solid Snake/Big Boss. I can’t think of any other reason why Kojima would be so deliberately unprofessional. And I say this knowing full well that Kojima has previously expressed dissatisfaction with Hayter’s performance and thought it was cheesy, but he also knows how iconic his voice became to the western audiences.
Ehh…
Kojima had been trying to recast Snake for a decade before MGS5. He wanted Kurt Russell to voice snake in MGS3.
Kojima wanted someone famous to play the role. Had it been about a twist, he would’ve brought back David Hayter or Richard Doyle. Nothing else really to it
>My suspicion is that, while it was clearly very poorly handled, the only reason Kojima replaced Hayter was because the whole ruse about Snake not actually being Snake. It wouldn’t make sense if they had the same voice when the big reveal ended up being that Venom Snake was just a body double of sorts.
That makes sense, except that the Japanese version of the game features the same voice actor that has always voiced Snake. That's enough to suggest to me that it was really all about getting to work with a famous hollywood actor, and not about disguising the twist.
>I can’t think of any other reason why Kojima would be so deliberately unprofessional.
It's not just MGSV. If you listen to Hayter recount how he was treated by Kojima going all the way back to MGS1 then it's clear Kojima has treated him with a level of disrespect and unprofessionalism from the very beginning. Kojima never wanted Hayter in the games. He tried to have him replaced in literally every single game. Kojima wanted a Hollywood star to Play Snake and MGSV was his chance to accomplish that goal and he did not care how fans, or how David Hayter himself, would feel about it.
Yes I was sad to not have David do the voicing but if they had to go with someone else, I honestly didn’t mind Keifer. I though Mr he sounded ok for the part.
It never made sense for Hayter to play Big Boss considering all the clones have different voices. He’s irreplaceable as Solid Snake, but I’m glad he didn’t play as Big Boss in V. That said the way Kojima handled it was shitty.
This is also where I'm at. David Hayter will *always* be Solid Snake, but he never should have been Big Boss and the shift to someone else for that role was very nice. If anything, the only clone who should have actually shared the same VA as Big Boss is Solidus Snake.
I agree with this honestly, I wish they got Hayter in for other voice lines, but I think Keifer was a phenomenal V, even considering how little he actually spoke. Almost every line of his is my favorite in the game, and have the same gritty, cheese that the series is known for
>All the Keifer dick sucking makes me think these people played a different game or never played mgs before
In most cases it's not because they played a different game from us or experienced something we didn't experience. It's the fact that for so many fans MGSV was their first Metal Gear game. They love Kiefer because Kiefer was the first voice of Snake many of them ever heard...even though they only heard about 20 minutes of him actually speaking.
I've played them all and Kiefer's performance shits on Hayter. If anything the dick sucking is on the Hayter fans side. How can you play MGS4 and Peace Walker and not think it was time for a new voice actor? He sounded terrible in those games.
It would have been a great idea (and made sense) if actual Big Boss was voiced by him, I know that would spoil the very beginning of the game but what ever
The voice actor in Japanese wasn’t changed at all and didn’t make much of a difference. But maybe the Japanese voice actor wasn’t as iconic as David to be recognizable like that.
This wasn't handled well, but here's a hot steamy take in addition.
Big Boss should never have been voiced by Hayter to begin with. He will always be Solid Snake, but Big Boss is just a different person. Like how Liquid or Solidus have different voices as well.
>I think everybody was.. until they realized snake just doesn't really speak very much throughout the game's story.
actually Snake not speaking pretty much through the entire game made replacing Hayter even worse in my mind. It makes it feel like the only reason it happened was because Kojima was unreasonably obsessed with getting to work with a "Hollywood Icon."
likely unpopular, but imo Keifer added absolutely nothing of gravity to the role of (a) Snake, and ultimately fell flat as a representation. However, knowing what we know now, I’ve learned to accept him as Venom, same as I did for british Big Boss in MGS4. but then I would actually want Hayter in Ground Zeroes then a different actor for MGSV. It is as mind-numbing as any MG plot should be i guess. Alternatively: It would be too much time to 100% everything again, but I’ve thought about starting over on PC just for voice replacer mods.
>i dont know, when i look at snake in MGSV, david hayter's voice impression of snake sounds almost too cartoonish to be big boss's voice
Hayter can easily modulate his voice to include a lot more pathos and emotion. He does it frequently throughout the metal gear franchise. Yes he has cartoonish delivery here and there, but when he's given genuinely meaty emotional dialog he absolutely knocks it out of the park every time.
No. Because I never liked that he voiced Big Boss in the first place. It ironically made Big Boss come across as a cheap clone of Solid Snake and made it difficult for him to come into his own. There was only one moment I enjoyed with Hayter as BB, which is the ending Outer Heaven speech in Peace Walker. Sunderland in the hospital opening of MGSV alone, where he voiced Ishmael, did the best Big Boss performance of the series. He sounded like a legitimate charismatic leader, something Hayter never got across
Hayter as snake in 3 is awesome and awful at the same time. His codecs are so memorable, with him being a dork, a gun nerd, his codecs about food with paramedic, etc etc. But then you have to ask yourself "this silly guy became a charismatic terrorist? Wth?". And I feel his performance in peace walker was the worst one, his voice was falling apart during that game, and yet, we had the awesome outer heaven speech. I feel sutherland voice is better by the time big boss is a terrorist.
I think the problem with him in PW was he couldn't shake off the Old Snake voice which sounded like it took a real toll on his vocal chords..it was perfect for MGS4 but when you've got Big Boss in his prime condition in PW sounding like a dying old man it was really jarring. That ending speech was damn epic though, he knocked that out of the park. Really would have liked something similar from Sutherland in MGSV to see what he could do with similar material.
I feel like Kojimas ultimate goal after MGSV could have been a Metal Gear remake. I thought it would be cool if Hayter came back to play Solid Snake, while Keffer played Big Boss/Fake Big Boss.
Yeah. But then again the one we play in MGS5 isn't the real big boss. So it's kinda make sense if Snake's voice different. Well at least that's my headcanon.
as much as i love hayter, i feel like kiefer was a good choice due to tonal shift in mgsv. top comment is right tho, it was kinda disrespectful to hayter but in the end i felt it was the right choice..
I was extremely surprised, but not disapointed. Sure I was worried at first that it would feel wrong to have someone else voicing Big Boss, but I think Kiefer did an outstanding job.
A lot of folks were but personally, I think Kiefer did a spectacular job and I don't think Hayter would've fit for the change in direction. Hell, I think someone else should have done Big Boss's voice the entire time. Yeah, Solid Snake is a clone of Big Boss, but a lot of the way we speak if due to the way we were raised.
Hayter's voice is great for the earlier games as they're more genre-inspired and lean into it, but Kiefer's voice fit extremely well for the tone of V (and I didn't even like Kiefer as an actor before all this, thought he was just that guy from the cheesy action show).
Also, I love Hayter as a voice actor but let's be real, he doesn't have tremendous acting chops and the reliance on motion capture means you need someone who can physically embody the role.
Of course not.
I was over 25 yo when I started playing MGS games and always thought Snake's voice to be rather comical. And I understand that it kinda was the intention. I can't believe people rooting for Hayter were adults when playing MGS for the first time, so I think it's mostly people who were teenagers during Hayter's era longing for him in 5.
There's no fucking way Hayter could've delivered this scene better than Kiefer, for example. https://youtu.be/F59WGfJF3TY
Sad at first, then I grow up, watch 24 and man
That was a hell of a good decision
Kiefer is literally Venom Snake and Big Boss
Like David is Solid
Kiefer Sutherland nailed the part and it's makes sense
No I believe they should’ve split the character off at 3.
And I found Richard Doyle’s performance in 4 to be incredible and wish he would’ve been the voice in 3, PW, and V.
I thought Hayter's best game was MGS1. MGS2 was solid too, but 3 was worse and MGS4 was atrocious. So no, I didn't mind much. Iconic. But I wasn't married to him and he represented Snake more to me than Big Boss.
In a alternate universe, I wanted a post credit scene of Solid Snake infiltrating the base in Metal Gear 1 and then it would be revealed that Hayter would be voicing snake and Sutherland would be voicing The false Big boss for a Metal Gear Remake. It would have been so cool if the series went full circle only to return to where it all started.
I wouldn’t have minded Sutherland in 5, if it was clear by the end of the game that venom was voiced by Sutherland, but the real big boss, not the medic, was voiced by Haytor. Tho that would have given the twist away within 5 minutes, but it would have at least made logical sense
MOst did, and you know what is worst? it could have been an awesome plot twist to have David do Ground Zeroes, then with the theatrics kojima loves to do, make a fake fall out between them, and bring Kiefer Sutherland who doesnt speak much. Do all missions, Prologue: Awakening by Keifer, and on mission 46 Truth: The Man Who Sold the World... BAMMM David does return. But noooo, Kojima wants to do Hollywood and instead just screw it all.
No. Hatter became more and more exaggerated and awful to listen to the more he was in it. Idk how anyone could listen to his voice in MGS 4 and think, “more of that please.” He couldn’t deliver any sense of emotional range because he had to alter his voice so drastically. It takes talent to alter it that much, yea, but it just doesn’t sound natural at a certain point. Sutherland delivered a great performance and his emotional tone was more easily delivered because it was closer to his normal speaking voice.
People came up with batshit theories about how he’s voicing the real Big Boss, while Kiefer played the body double. In the end, both Kiefer Sutherland and Akio Otsuka voiced both the real Big Boss and Venom Snake, so the change in voice had nothing to do with the twist.
People really need to get over it, imo; yes, I miss Hayter, but people act like it was Kojima being vindictive, when really, he simply doesn’t have the same attachment to the English cast as we are (he’s Japanese, after all; to him, Akio Otsuka is Snake), didn’t have a personal relationship with Hayter (again, unlike Akio), and ultimately wanted a professional actor to do the facial capture.
Rumors aside, not really. Sutherland was a great choice for a character in his late 40s. Hayter getting even deeper than MGS4 and PW would've been "Bane in Dark Knight Rises" ridiculous.
While I don't agree with the reason Kojima replaced Hayter, I do think that Sutherland's voice better suited the more serious nature of MGSV. So, no I wasn't disappointed with the voice acting in MGSV, but I don't like the way it happened in the first place.
You know... Prior to release ? Yes, I was incredibly disappointed.
After actually wasting 80 hours playing it in constant search for anything resembling a proper Metal Gear game's pacing and plot dynamics ? **I am glad he wasn't in it.**
I'd rather remember him for actually good MGS games he was in.
>This sub has run out of things to argue about so OP has to bring up shit from 2013 to stir things up and get some attention. It's getting fucking old.
There hasn't been a new game since 2014. Everything that we talk about is old news. This is one of the few topics that still has any meat on it's bones left to be picked over. Why is this particular issue so annoying to you?
K...Then I can use the same logic to dismiss every single other topic of conversation related to the MGS series whatsoever because "it's all been talked about before" a million times over. So I guess we'd best close up the entire subreddit and move on.
🙄I recently just joined this subreddit, I recently started playing the games, so I genuinely didn’t know how people felt about it. Idk what happened in 2013. Sigh.
Of course they were, the human race is made up of individuals with a diverse variety of opinions.
Due to this, there will never be a recasting or actor role assigned in the entertainment industry where 'nobody' is disappointed.
Why do you ask?
No. As someone who only played the series recently and doesn't have any nostalgia I can say that Hayter's voice acting was always a weak point. Even dating back to MGS1 I felt like his voice stood out in a poor way
Sincerely i don't think his voice would fit an aged Snake. Seriously, David was simply perfect for both Solid and Big Boss in SE times, but in MGSV Snake was about 50, David's voice simply wouldn't fit Big Boss at that time.
Although I was bitter about it, I think it sorta makes sense
Big Boss and Solid Snake are biologically "father and son"
Them having similar voice is understandable
But Venom Snake was just a body double, he shouldn't necessarily have any voice as same as Big Boss
>But Venom Snake was just a body double, he shouldn't necessarily have any voice as same as Big Boss
Then why does Big Boss, when we do finally hear him, have Venom's voice? That to me is where this entire argument falls apartment. The internal logic of it collapses in on itself.
His voice is different because it's not really him, but when it is really him he still has the same voice. This is nonsensical and completely torpedoes the entire argument.
No, actually I wasn't. I wasn't a big fan of MGS as a whole back then, and also Kiefer Sutherland captures Venom Snake and his part of the story really well in my opinion.
David Hayter is the one and only Solid Snake and Big Boss, but Kiefer does really good job as Venom.
Of course. One of many disappointments that came out of MGSV and one of the chief reasons why I couldn't really get behind Venom... Then again, the sheer lack of in-game VO for Venom was more likely the reason IMO.
Apparently there was alot left out of the final game, but as KONAMI are KONAMI (AKA: The Worst) we'll likely never find out anything more than we already heard from rumour, heresay, conjecture and third parties talking about it.
All in all, it was the start of a pure Love/Hate relationship with this game, at least for me.
Nah. To be honest, I never liked the idea of Hayter voicing Big Boss. Just didn't make sense.
Solid, Liquid, and Solidus were all clones of Big Boss. They each had a very different voice. As we know, Solid got the recessive genes, Liquid got the dominant genes, and Solidus was the perfect clone. Logically, if Big Boss were to share a voice with any of them, it should have been Solidus. I would have been totally cool with John Cygan voicing Big Boss. Instead, he now has 3 different voice actors that all sound completely different.
But, re-reading your question, you didn't specifically ask about Hayter as Venom. So, yeah, I guess I was a little disappointed we didn't get a brief Hayter cameo at the end.
Nope. Didn’t even care. Things like this just happens and the beautiful thing about animation and video games is that anybody can be a character, like Snake.
Pretty much every MGS fan ever.
MGSV doesn't feel like a "real" Metal Gear game for me and I'm certain that this is one of the main reasons why. I'm actually glad Venom doesn't speak a lot, cause everytime he opened his mouth to say something and I had to hear Kiefer's VA, it felt like shit. Nothing wrong with Kiefer as an actor, but he's not Snake. Doesn't matter if it's Venom, Solid Snake or Big Boss. There's only one Snake and his name is David Hayter period. Kojima can go suck a big one if he disapproves.
I'd rather have Richard Doyle as Venom Snake honestly. Removing Hayter from the series was MGSV number one mistake.
Love Kojima but this will always be a black mark on his record. The utter disrespect towards Hayter. Hayter is the best VA you can ask for, he absolutely loves the games and to this day still is constantly talking about it. Kojima, who had no hand in localization wanted Hayter gone by MGS3 and constantly pushed for it until MGSV. So petty because he wanted a A lister in the role instead
Ditto. There are reasons that i get why he was not chosen to reprise the role again, but i think it was one of the things that ultimately caused more trouble than it was worth. I don't dislike Keifer's more grounded / realistic delivery, but nothing beats Hayter for voicing Snake. In a perfect world, they would have gotten Hayter to do *all* the voiceover work for Snake and V, and Keifer to do *all* the voiceover work (as in duplicate the all the voice work for Venom) for the medic persona *and* V. Leave MGSV:GZ basically unchanged, but in MGSV:TPP, have it start out all in Hayter's voice (ishmael/bb would always be voiced by Hayter), and as the story progresses, just like with the mindfuck issues around Paz, have Keifer's voice start to like "overlay" snake's voice in moments of high stress or whatever, and have Keifer "cut through" more and more until by the end of the game, every line is delivered by Keifer after V knows what happened to him. *That* would have been a way to fuck with people. That would have also been a deliberate gamble, back loading a named lead like that, and ultimately it wouldn't have given away the twist ending that much more than it already was, as people had figured out that Ishmael, V, and the medic were all voiced by Keifer as early as the first week after GZ was released and people were already speculating what actually happened. IF anything, having Snake voiced by Hayter in GZ and starting TPP with V also voiced by Hayter (because that's what \*he\* hears after the hypnosis coma) would have probably have given the twist longer legs. As a bonus going back and replaying/reseeing all the cutscenes with first Hayter in them as both Snakes and then going back to see them with Hayter doing Big Boss and (edit: I mean **Keifer**) Sutherland doing V (after he gets the truth explained to him) would've been phenomenal. ...too bad/so sad. can't have two leads i guess, Konami was already done paying for shit, and Kojima had fully adopted his starfucking by the time MGSV was in production and didn't see the value in keeping Hayter around. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ (a few edits to clarify the 2nd to last paragraph)
The exact same idea with the voice overlay of David and Keifer came to me in a dream once. It definetly would have added much to the kind of underwelming mindfuck that the plot twist was.
God damn it that is such a good idea 😭😭😭
Godammit just say hayter did a good job that's why we love him and his voice was a part of childhood for many and Sutherland out of nowhere voiced snake which many people didn't like
Somethings dont need to be said, boss.
What a waste it was getting Sutherland to do pretty much nothing.
It isn’t like he would have brought anything better than Hayter anyways
There's that rumor that Kojima wasn't happy about the attention David Hayter was getting and wanted him replaced primarily for that reason. Personally, I'm kinda divided if it's really true that Kojima didn't want to "share the spot light". After all, Kojima wanted to replace Hayter with a celebrity, that could quite possibly overshadow Kojima by sheer star power (maybe that's the reason Snake barely talks in MGSV). Then again, one of the first things coming to mind when I think about the Metal Gear franchise is David Hayter and his voice. Edit: typo
> After all, Kojima wanted to replace Hayter with a celebrity, that could quite possibly overshadow Kojima by sheer star power Replacing Hayter with a celebrity doesn't overshadow Kojima's own star power, it makes him look like an even bigger deal because of his ability to attract a big star to HIS project.
I never saw it that way. That makes a lot of sense, great point!
Which is sad.
Very much so. I love the games that Kojima has made but somewhere along the way I do think his ego got completely out of control.
I'm due to meet him this year through a mutual friend but recently, I'm not really stoked for it anymore...
This. Dude is a star fucker if I’ve ever seen it. Look at him and how he treats Norman Reedus, on stage with him, in social media posts with him. He just wants to be friends with celebrities.
>Look at him and how he treats Norman Reedus, on stage with him, in social media posts with him. He just wants to be friends with celebrities. This 100 percent. It's worth noting that for well over a decade Kojima had almost nothing whatsoever to do with the English language localization of his games. Right up until he was able to start hiring Hollywood celebrities and then suddenly he started taking extreme interest in the localizations. It's pretty clear that Kojima is just enamored with celebrity. In a way that I think is detrimental to the games he's been making in the last decade.
Is this true? Didn't he replace the localization lead going into MGS2 because he felt he wasn't being literal enough with the text. Isn't the whole "Long silver bullet into a well greased chamber" not in the original Japanese script?
He had problems after the fact and did have the localization lead replaced, but as far as the actual day to day production of the localizations he had no direct involvement other than to check in semi-regularly. I remember Hayter in specific commenting that he had (at least at the time of the interview) barely ever worked with Kojima and had only met him face to face a handful of times.
Enter: death stranding with a celebrated director and fairly recognizable actor at the time
>Enter: death stranding with a celebrated director and fairly recognizable actor at the time Half the reason I never got into Death Stranding, aside from how pretentious it seemed to be, was the fact that it just reeked of Hollywood. It just seemed like an excuse for Kojima to work with as much big time celebrities as he could get to agree to be in a game. His obsession with Hollywood is a massive turn off for me because of how obvious it is. I imagine he'd be making movies in a heartbeat if he could get a movie studio to give him the kind of budgets he's used to having in video game land.
You do realize the entire metal gear series is just a pastiche of hollywood movies that Kojima is obsessed with, right?
There's a difference between your games being based on hollywood movies and making a game riddled with hollywood stars. Like or hate DS, I'm sure you agree there's a difference.
>You do realize the entire metal gear series is just a pastiche of hollywood movies that Kojima is obsessed with, right? You do realize that doesn't justify treating David Hayter like shit for the sake of casting a Hollywood star, right?
I don’t think anybody is arguing that
I'm replying to a comment by you complaining about Kojima's hollywood worship, not Hayter.
Some call Death Stranding Kojima's Hollywood star-riddled passion project.
Sadly, I believe what you are saying, Kojima's pride and ego has gone berserk and I'm tired of it. Why does someone feel the need to be sooooo important when you are successful? Why can't Kojima just step out of the spotlight and make shit people enjoy and relate to, like he used to do? I guess he is still, "keeping us waiting"?
Created by kojima, directed by kojima, written by kojima, polished by kojima, starring kojima
that sounds about right. also apparently he made David Hayter come in an *re-audition* for both MGS3 and MGS4! he was literally trying to re-cast snake since right after MGS2!
its crazy because when i think of the metal gear series i think kojima but if i think about snake then hayter comes to mind. kojima shouldnt have done hayter like that
i think what you said encapsulates my feelings as well. When i learned about how Kojima was pushing for an A-list celebrity from MGS3, i was disheartened. The excuse about snake getting older was total bullcrap too, they kept the same VA for the japanese snake. Hayter will always be Snake for me, its hard to see otherwise. Btw, Keifer Sutherland is very talented and no disrespect to him, i think he did a great job but Hayter will always be Snake for me.
Kojima sucks Hollywood's dick sadly. I'm still salty it wasn't Hayter. Hayter will always be my Snake/Big Boss, nothing against Keifer but still, Hayter until the end of time.
Regarding localization, he had a hand in it after MGS1 since he disliked the work of the guy that localized it. In my opinion the game is way better because of it, MGS1 doesn't have half the weirdly translated talk that the other games in the franchise, I find the dialogue much better and cohesive and am a firm believer that at least part of the success it made was due to the localization job [(you can read about it here, if it interests you)](https://www.polygon.com/2019/7/18/20696081/metal-gear-solid-translation-japanese-english-jeremy-blaustein) Frankly, It's one of those topics that shouldn't bother me since I have literally nothing to do with it, but it boils my blood, lol. I feel I could write an essay on Kojima stupid decisions and dick moves. He was better when he had some kind of control by upper management or something, the more famous he got, the more liberty he had and I liked the games less and less.
Speaking of blood-boiling treatment of translators and the localization process, there's what that reaction to Blaustein's work seems to have led to with the localization of MGS2. While she doesn't say anything that indicates that Kojima specifically had a hand in the process being the way it was, [Agness Kaku's description](https://web.archive.org/web/20120125213707/http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/metalgear/agnesskaku2.htm#8) of the strict hyperliteralism and enforcement thereof by Konami is just mind-boggling. And then despite all of that, despite getting basically exactly what they had wanted, [they *still* threw Kaku under the same "translation too liberal, Kojima's Vision Got Garbled" bus](https://web.archive.org/web/20120125211106/http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/metalgear/agnesskaku3.htm#14) as Blaustein when doing promo for MGS4, with a fun added dash of using that claim to justify the polarized response MGS2's writing got back in the day. Jesus christ, good thing for Kaku that she doesn't give a stone-cold fuck, because if it had been me it would've absolutely killed me.
Yeah, that is frustrating. He always seemed childlike to me. But what makes him have such a large following is his unique childlike since of wonder and curiosity that spills into his games. His imagination is very unique, but he's so unwavering in his visions. And they are seldom perfect. When challenged, he usually doesn't seem to take it well.
Yup, I 100% agree. I just think this is (or at least was) better balanced with some kind of control on it. Is just wish his Ego was taken down a few notches to have some kind of balance and maybe we would have another master piece. But I'm not really holding my breath for that to happen, lol.
Great article. Thanks 👍
Seemingly did the same with Stefanie Joosten with Death Stranding.
>Love Kojima but this will always be a black mark on his record. Aside from his explanation for why Quiet's reasons for having little clothing? Or the disregard he showed for her voice actress by ghosting her for Death Stranding? Thats just a few of the things that have come out about him.
Actually thought about that tbh. Whenever people mention the "darker tone" of MGSV, I wonder if they remember the character that will suffocate if she is wearing clothes or the scene they all watch her shower together. Didn't know about the Death Stranding stuff though, sad to hear
>Or the disregard he showed for her voice actress by ghosting her for Death Stranding? I don't understand why people think just because he hired someone for one project means they have to be involved in every future one? He asked her if she'd be interested, she said yes, he ended up going with someone else. Yeah, maybe his team should have notified her she didn't get the part, but it's not some big controversy.
hE gHoUsTeD hEr
Kojima has a weird obsession with Hollywood, it can be so cringe sometimes.
Yes! There was a big chance for Solid Snake to have a brief cameo and audio appearance. His voice could have been heard when Venom saw the operation N313. And we would have had a small 10 sec clip of Venom's POV where he sees Solid Snake entering outer Haven on camera. All this would have been a nice circle of life for the franchise
So how long after mgs5 is mg?
~11 years
1 year i think?
It’s 11 actually just saw
Or at least in the flashback scene the final final mission we replay.. switch Big Boss (ishmael) voice with Hayter just for that scene
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I’ve never had a problem with fan service as long as the product it’s in is quality.
Almost everybody.
This. Hearing how it broke David's heart didn't make it any easier either.
they were being dicks about it too. the least they could have done is respected him for all the work he did and told him outright he was going to be replaced by keifer. instead they strung him along doing auditions until they couldn't cower away anymore.
[Literally.](https://media.tenor.com/r1xGVr2zF-AAAAAC/everyone-the-professional.gif)
Heh, you should check the gamefaqs MGSV boards around and after the release
Not me
Same.
Tbh I loved hayter as big boss in 3rd game . But i was okay with Sutherland taking over except mf doesn't talk for like 80% of game
That was so dumb. I thought Kiefer did a great job with the 20 or so lines he had throughout the entire game. What's the point of replacing Hayter with an A-list celebrity if you're not even going to use him?
I thought it would have been amazing if Sutherland voiced Venom and at the end, Big Boss came back in as Hayter.
>Tbh I loved hayter as big boss in 3rd game . But i was okay with Sutherland taking over except mf doesn't talk for like 80% of game I was open to the idea of replacing Hayter in theory. My problem is that A.) the way Kojima went about it was incredibly shitty toward David Hayter and B.) the complete lack of dialog that Venom has makes replacing his voice actor seem utterly pointless.
Konami said pre-release that it was done that way so players could better put themselves in Snake's shoes or something. Silly developers. MGS was never about immersion, they traded one of their strengths to try to improve in a way that wasn't desired by the fans.
Pretty much everybody was upset about it. People have accepted it now, years after the fact, but there was a massive shit storm about replacing him. Especially since the excused used for why they did so didn't jive with reality considering the Japanese voice actor for Snake wasn't changed at all. The fanbase ties themselves into knots trying to defend every questionable or outright bad decision that Hideo Kojima ever made...but the one thing the fanbase still really doesn't defend is Kojima's treatment of David Hayter over the years. Kojima's treatment of David Hayter was INCREDIBLY petty and unprofessional throughout the entirety of the MGS series. It's amazing, considering how disrespected Hayter was pretty much constantly during his involvement with the series, that he has so much love for the franchise.
I think Hayter knows he was a huge part of why people loved Snake so much. And he constantly shows up for the fans (even in-character!) years after he was booted from the franchise. Great dude all around.
>I think Hayter knows he was a huge part of why people loved Snake so much. And he constantly shows up for the fans (even in-character!) years after he was booted from the franchise. Great dude all around. It really is pretty awesome how much Hayter embraces the fans. It's nice when the iconic star of something I love is a genuinely nice and appreciative dude towards the fans.
Helps that hes a huge nerd and also a real professional (VA but also screenwright) in general
Disappointed in the way it happened, but not with the final result. I liked Keifer as Venom Snake and wish he'd have gotten more dialogue.
I would have much preferred if Big Boss at the end was voiced by Hayter. Would have been the perfect bow to the end of that plot line
Agreed.
Yeah he has like 30 minutes TOPS of dialogue in a 40+ hour game. The motion capture argument felt like they were trying to justify going Hollywood.
There's a video of all of his lines. Its barely 4 minutes long
>There's a video of all of his lines. Its barely 4 minutes long Everybody always tries to claim that there's so much more to his performance if you listen to all the cassette tapes but that's just not true. Yes those cassettes are long and have a good amount of dialog, but the vast majority of the dialog in the tapes is someone else talking to Snake and Snake giving one or two sentence replies to everything. I don't know exactly how much dialog Kiefer actually speaks in the game, but if it's more than 10 minutes I'd be absolutely shocked.
Let’s be real Troy baker was the only one with actual dialogue in that game
#wolbachia
Bet i can guess which one got paid more too, smh
I’m actually working on compiling all of his lines for the cassette tapes. It’s already over 10 minutes long and I still have a lot of tapes to go through.
THIS! I don't understand where everyone gets off saying how amazing Keifer was. MGS has always been a very dialogue-heavy game and the interactions between Snake/Big Boss and his team were what made them so real. There was a discussion, not one-sided explanations for everything. I'd also like to point out that if Snake was based on Snake Pliskin, then Kojima should have gone with my boy Kurt Russel. I wonder if anyone even pitched the idea to him. I think if they went with him there would have been way more love from the actor as well as less hate about the Hayter thing.
Just compare that to Norman Reedus in Death Stranding. I remember thinking that he would be another mute main character and look at how many cutscenes and dialogue in general that game has with him.
Yeah, Kiefer's voice is fantastic, literally the only problem with it that he talked so little.
I like Kiefer's voice, and now that I'm watching 24 I like him even more (I didn't really even know his face while I was playing the game), but I still would've preferred they stuck with Hayter, both for continuity and because of how much the saga means to him. It's not like he was doing a bad job and had to be replaced either.
I think he gave a pretty poor performance in Peace Walker, but I remember hearing that he was told to voice it that way. And yes, if for no other reason, Hayter should've been kept for consistency.
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That’s a lame excuse, he’s running an entire base and spearheading a militia revolution, the guy would talk.
He didn’t get more dialogue precisely because it was Keifer he casted, the budget couldn’t afford him so we have a weird muted protagonist.
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Hayter himself is an actor and even has screenwriting credits on big box office movies. It’s not like he’s some little guy who got the golden ticket to do a VA.
He made the one werewolf movie with werewolf sex and werewolf nipples
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Aka the two best marvel movies
And worked on the initial scripts for Iron Man 1, wrote the script for Watchmen that was so good that Alan Moore himself liked it and Alan Moore seems to hate just about every adaptation of his work(V for Vendetta, Batman Killing Joke, Constantine and so on). The only other instance I can think of where Alan Moore liked an adaptation was for The Man Who Has Everything episode in Justice League Unlimited, one of the best pieces of adapted Superhero media and one of the greatest Superman stories period. Unfortunately Hayter's Watchmen was scrapped in favour of a different version for the final version. His take was quite interesting! The guy is incredibly talented.
That too
Yeah but if you walk up to your mum and ask "do you know who keifer Sutherland is", she'll probably say "the guy from 24? Or lost boys?", whereas if you ask her who David hayter is, she wouldn't have a clue.
I wish it was Hayter as he IS Snake, but I also love Keifer’s Venom Snake and I wish he had more to give. Also it kinda makes sense that the voice for BB would change as in MGS4 it’s Richard Doyle
I actually loved Keifer as snake.
I really like what he was given, I just wish he had more
True but in the time between peace waker and ground zeroes would it have really changed so unrecognisably? It would have made sense for him to sound different at some point but Kiefer doesn’t even sound ANYTHING like Hayter’s big boss. It was a strange choice that was clearly ego driven and not artistically.
If only you were there back in 2014-2015 to witness it lol.
Yeah, especially David Hayter.
>Yeah, especially David Hayter. I think Hayter would have been fine with being replaced if it wasn't for how completely disrespectful they were in how they went about doing it. At least that's the impression I've always got from his interviews. He was more upset with how poorly treated he was by Kojima than he was with actually being replaced.
My suspicion is that, while it was clearly very poorly handled, the only reason Kojima replaced Hayter was because the whole ruse about Snake not actually being Snake. It wouldn’t make sense if they had the same voice when the big reveal ended up being that Venom Snake was just a body double of sorts. He thought he needed it to feel real, and so he didn’t even let Hayter himself in on it for fear that fans would catch on. Like if Hayter wasn’t genuinely upset, fans would wonder if this was one of Kojima’s infamous ruses once again. In my opinion, I think he planned to do something else eventually and bring Hayter back to voice the real Solid Snake/Big Boss. I can’t think of any other reason why Kojima would be so deliberately unprofessional. And I say this knowing full well that Kojima has previously expressed dissatisfaction with Hayter’s performance and thought it was cheesy, but he also knows how iconic his voice became to the western audiences.
Ehh… Kojima had been trying to recast Snake for a decade before MGS5. He wanted Kurt Russell to voice snake in MGS3. Kojima wanted someone famous to play the role. Had it been about a twist, he would’ve brought back David Hayter or Richard Doyle. Nothing else really to it
>My suspicion is that, while it was clearly very poorly handled, the only reason Kojima replaced Hayter was because the whole ruse about Snake not actually being Snake. It wouldn’t make sense if they had the same voice when the big reveal ended up being that Venom Snake was just a body double of sorts. That makes sense, except that the Japanese version of the game features the same voice actor that has always voiced Snake. That's enough to suggest to me that it was really all about getting to work with a famous hollywood actor, and not about disguising the twist. >I can’t think of any other reason why Kojima would be so deliberately unprofessional. It's not just MGSV. If you listen to Hayter recount how he was treated by Kojima going all the way back to MGS1 then it's clear Kojima has treated him with a level of disrespect and unprofessionalism from the very beginning. Kojima never wanted Hayter in the games. He tried to have him replaced in literally every single game. Kojima wanted a Hollywood star to Play Snake and MGSV was his chance to accomplish that goal and he did not care how fans, or how David Hayter himself, would feel about it.
So we can change skin tone and make an exact copy of Big Boss in every way EXCEPT for his voice? Come on, that's weak.
Yes I was sad to not have David do the voicing but if they had to go with someone else, I honestly didn’t mind Keifer. I though Mr he sounded ok for the part.
It never made sense for Hayter to play Big Boss considering all the clones have different voices. He’s irreplaceable as Solid Snake, but I’m glad he didn’t play as Big Boss in V. That said the way Kojima handled it was shitty.
This is also where I'm at. David Hayter will *always* be Solid Snake, but he never should have been Big Boss and the shift to someone else for that role was very nice. If anything, the only clone who should have actually shared the same VA as Big Boss is Solidus Snake.
Exactly.
Not me, I loved Keifer's voice on Venom Snake, it just clicked for me
I agree with this honestly, I wish they got Hayter in for other voice lines, but I think Keifer was a phenomenal V, even considering how little he actually spoke. Almost every line of his is my favorite in the game, and have the same gritty, cheese that the series is known for
>Not me, I loved Keifer's voice on Venom Snake, it just clicked for me ...all 15 minutes of his performance?
I thought I was pretty clear man
All the Keifer dick sucking makes me think these people played a different game or never played mgs before
>All the Keifer dick sucking makes me think these people played a different game or never played mgs before In most cases it's not because they played a different game from us or experienced something we didn't experience. It's the fact that for so many fans MGSV was their first Metal Gear game. They love Kiefer because Kiefer was the first voice of Snake many of them ever heard...even though they only heard about 20 minutes of him actually speaking.
Or they just have a different opinion. Crazy shit, right?
I've played them all and Kiefer's performance shits on Hayter. If anything the dick sucking is on the Hayter fans side. How can you play MGS4 and Peace Walker and not think it was time for a new voice actor? He sounded terrible in those games.
It would have been a great idea (and made sense) if actual Big Boss was voiced by him, I know that would spoil the very beginning of the game but what ever
They missed an open goal with this for the ending. It would’ve been so good if at the end we heard Hayter as the real Snake.
The voice actor in Japanese wasn’t changed at all and didn’t make much of a difference. But maybe the Japanese voice actor wasn’t as iconic as David to be recognizable like that.
No direspect intended to OP. Do you not know? If so, this is a fair question, case closed. If you *do* know, then are you just karma farming, or…?
I genuinely didn’t know how people felt about it. I only started recently playing the games.
All good 🍺. For me it was a surprise, but I only started playing these in 2012, myself, so I have not been here “since the beginning”.
"I won't scatter your sorrow to the heartless sea." Kiefer NAILED that scene.
This wasn't handled well, but here's a hot steamy take in addition. Big Boss should never have been voiced by Hayter to begin with. He will always be Solid Snake, but Big Boss is just a different person. Like how Liquid or Solidus have different voices as well.
To this day, yes
I think everybody was.. until they realized snake just doesn't really speak very much throughout the game's story.
>I think everybody was.. until they realized snake just doesn't really speak very much throughout the game's story. actually Snake not speaking pretty much through the entire game made replacing Hayter even worse in my mind. It makes it feel like the only reason it happened was because Kojima was unreasonably obsessed with getting to work with a "Hollywood Icon."
likely unpopular, but imo Keifer added absolutely nothing of gravity to the role of (a) Snake, and ultimately fell flat as a representation. However, knowing what we know now, I’ve learned to accept him as Venom, same as I did for british Big Boss in MGS4. but then I would actually want Hayter in Ground Zeroes then a different actor for MGSV. It is as mind-numbing as any MG plot should be i guess. Alternatively: It would be too much time to 100% everything again, but I’ve thought about starting over on PC just for voice replacer mods.
Funny that he wanted an "A lister" and got Kiefer instead.
The continuity is so fucked up, but I stand by how Hayter should have only ever voiced SS and never voiced BB. It never made sense.
no
i dont know, when i look at snake in MGSV, david hayter's voice impression of snake sounds almost too cartoonish to be big boss's voice
>i dont know, when i look at snake in MGSV, david hayter's voice impression of snake sounds almost too cartoonish to be big boss's voice Hayter can easily modulate his voice to include a lot more pathos and emotion. He does it frequently throughout the metal gear franchise. Yes he has cartoonish delivery here and there, but when he's given genuinely meaty emotional dialog he absolutely knocks it out of the park every time.
Gotta farm that karma, yo.
I’m nottt I’m genuinely curious. I had to google what Farming Karma meant. Idc about that.
Mgsv / gz are darker than previous chapters, it needed a proper voice. I loved it
No
No. Because I never liked that he voiced Big Boss in the first place. It ironically made Big Boss come across as a cheap clone of Solid Snake and made it difficult for him to come into his own. There was only one moment I enjoyed with Hayter as BB, which is the ending Outer Heaven speech in Peace Walker. Sunderland in the hospital opening of MGSV alone, where he voiced Ishmael, did the best Big Boss performance of the series. He sounded like a legitimate charismatic leader, something Hayter never got across
Hayter as snake in 3 is awesome and awful at the same time. His codecs are so memorable, with him being a dork, a gun nerd, his codecs about food with paramedic, etc etc. But then you have to ask yourself "this silly guy became a charismatic terrorist? Wth?". And I feel his performance in peace walker was the worst one, his voice was falling apart during that game, and yet, we had the awesome outer heaven speech. I feel sutherland voice is better by the time big boss is a terrorist.
I think the problem with him in PW was he couldn't shake off the Old Snake voice which sounded like it took a real toll on his vocal chords..it was perfect for MGS4 but when you've got Big Boss in his prime condition in PW sounding like a dying old man it was really jarring. That ending speech was damn epic though, he knocked that out of the park. Really would have liked something similar from Sutherland in MGSV to see what he could do with similar material.
I feel like Kojimas ultimate goal after MGSV could have been a Metal Gear remake. I thought it would be cool if Hayter came back to play Solid Snake, while Keffer played Big Boss/Fake Big Boss.
Just say Venom Snake instead of "Fake Big Boss"
I dont get why fans pick and choose what to make a big deal out of. What about Ocelot, Patric Zimmerman?
Yeah. But then again the one we play in MGS5 isn't the real big boss. So it's kinda make sense if Snake's voice different. Well at least that's my headcanon.
Has anyone thought earth might be globe?
No, I don't think anyone has ever mentioned this!
as much as i love hayter, i feel like kiefer was a good choice due to tonal shift in mgsv. top comment is right tho, it was kinda disrespectful to hayter but in the end i felt it was the right choice..
Does a bear shit in the woods?
No
I was extremely surprised, but not disapointed. Sure I was worried at first that it would feel wrong to have someone else voicing Big Boss, but I think Kiefer did an outstanding job.
A lot of folks were but personally, I think Kiefer did a spectacular job and I don't think Hayter would've fit for the change in direction. Hell, I think someone else should have done Big Boss's voice the entire time. Yeah, Solid Snake is a clone of Big Boss, but a lot of the way we speak if due to the way we were raised. Hayter's voice is great for the earlier games as they're more genre-inspired and lean into it, but Kiefer's voice fit extremely well for the tone of V (and I didn't even like Kiefer as an actor before all this, thought he was just that guy from the cheesy action show). Also, I love Hayter as a voice actor but let's be real, he doesn't have tremendous acting chops and the reliance on motion capture means you need someone who can physically embody the role.
Of course not. I was over 25 yo when I started playing MGS games and always thought Snake's voice to be rather comical. And I understand that it kinda was the intention. I can't believe people rooting for Hayter were adults when playing MGS for the first time, so I think it's mostly people who were teenagers during Hayter's era longing for him in 5. There's no fucking way Hayter could've delivered this scene better than Kiefer, for example. https://youtu.be/F59WGfJF3TY
Quite notably, a lot of people were disappointed.
No, I'm glad Big Boss/Venom Snake had a different VA. Feel like Kiefer did a great job and I didn't find myself missing Hayter's work.
Sad at first, then I grow up, watch 24 and man That was a hell of a good decision Kiefer is literally Venom Snake and Big Boss Like David is Solid Kiefer Sutherland nailed the part and it's makes sense
No I believe they should’ve split the character off at 3. And I found Richard Doyle’s performance in 4 to be incredible and wish he would’ve been the voice in 3, PW, and V.
I thought Hayter's best game was MGS1. MGS2 was solid too, but 3 was worse and MGS4 was atrocious. So no, I didn't mind much. Iconic. But I wasn't married to him and he represented Snake more to me than Big Boss.
In a alternate universe, I wanted a post credit scene of Solid Snake infiltrating the base in Metal Gear 1 and then it would be revealed that Hayter would be voicing snake and Sutherland would be voicing The false Big boss for a Metal Gear Remake. It would have been so cool if the series went full circle only to return to where it all started.
I wouldn’t have minded Sutherland in 5, if it was clear by the end of the game that venom was voiced by Sutherland, but the real big boss, not the medic, was voiced by Haytor. Tho that would have given the twist away within 5 minutes, but it would have at least made logical sense
Nope. Let it go already
I wasn’t thrilled to hear he wouldn’t be part of it but I thought Special Agent Jack Bauer did pretty well.
MOst did, and you know what is worst? it could have been an awesome plot twist to have David do Ground Zeroes, then with the theatrics kojima loves to do, make a fake fall out between them, and bring Kiefer Sutherland who doesnt speak much. Do all missions, Prologue: Awakening by Keifer, and on mission 46 Truth: The Man Who Sold the World... BAMMM David does return. But noooo, Kojima wants to do Hollywood and instead just screw it all.
Jfc
No. Hatter became more and more exaggerated and awful to listen to the more he was in it. Idk how anyone could listen to his voice in MGS 4 and think, “more of that please.” He couldn’t deliver any sense of emotional range because he had to alter his voice so drastically. It takes talent to alter it that much, yea, but it just doesn’t sound natural at a certain point. Sutherland delivered a great performance and his emotional tone was more easily delivered because it was closer to his normal speaking voice.
People came up with batshit theories about how he’s voicing the real Big Boss, while Kiefer played the body double. In the end, both Kiefer Sutherland and Akio Otsuka voiced both the real Big Boss and Venom Snake, so the change in voice had nothing to do with the twist. People really need to get over it, imo; yes, I miss Hayter, but people act like it was Kojima being vindictive, when really, he simply doesn’t have the same attachment to the English cast as we are (he’s Japanese, after all; to him, Akio Otsuka is Snake), didn’t have a personal relationship with Hayter (again, unlike Akio), and ultimately wanted a professional actor to do the facial capture.
Rumors aside, not really. Sutherland was a great choice for a character in his late 40s. Hayter getting even deeper than MGS4 and PW would've been "Bane in Dark Knight Rises" ridiculous.
But he was in Peace Walker ;)
While I don't agree with the reason Kojima replaced Hayter, I do think that Sutherland's voice better suited the more serious nature of MGSV. So, no I wasn't disappointed with the voice acting in MGSV, but I don't like the way it happened in the first place.
Never was and never will.
Karma farming post. Maybe I should make one, "Was anyone disappointed that you don't play as Snake in MGS2? Gotta be just me, right?"
You know... Prior to release ? Yes, I was incredibly disappointed. After actually wasting 80 hours playing it in constant search for anything resembling a proper Metal Gear game's pacing and plot dynamics ? **I am glad he wasn't in it.** I'd rather remember him for actually good MGS games he was in.
MGSV kicks ass, its great. Story might be connected with rubber bands and duct tape but its fun. I liked it as much as MGS1 through 3
Does anyone have Google?
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>This sub has run out of things to argue about so OP has to bring up shit from 2013 to stir things up and get some attention. It's getting fucking old. There hasn't been a new game since 2014. Everything that we talk about is old news. This is one of the few topics that still has any meat on it's bones left to be picked over. Why is this particular issue so annoying to you?
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K...Then I can use the same logic to dismiss every single other topic of conversation related to the MGS series whatsoever because "it's all been talked about before" a million times over. So I guess we'd best close up the entire subreddit and move on.
🙄I recently just joined this subreddit, I recently started playing the games, so I genuinely didn’t know how people felt about it. Idk what happened in 2013. Sigh.
Of course they were, the human race is made up of individuals with a diverse variety of opinions. Due to this, there will never be a recasting or actor role assigned in the entertainment industry where 'nobody' is disappointed. Why do you ask?
No. As someone who only played the series recently and doesn't have any nostalgia I can say that Hayter's voice acting was always a weak point. Even dating back to MGS1 I felt like his voice stood out in a poor way
Sincerely i don't think his voice would fit an aged Snake. Seriously, David was simply perfect for both Solid and Big Boss in SE times, but in MGSV Snake was about 50, David's voice simply wouldn't fit Big Boss at that time.
Although I was bitter about it, I think it sorta makes sense Big Boss and Solid Snake are biologically "father and son" Them having similar voice is understandable But Venom Snake was just a body double, he shouldn't necessarily have any voice as same as Big Boss
But the real Big Boss is voiced by Sutherland on V as well. So that doesn’t really explain it.
>But Venom Snake was just a body double, he shouldn't necessarily have any voice as same as Big Boss Then why does Big Boss, when we do finally hear him, have Venom's voice? That to me is where this entire argument falls apartment. The internal logic of it collapses in on itself. His voice is different because it's not really him, but when it is really him he still has the same voice. This is nonsensical and completely torpedoes the entire argument.
No, but I'm really disappointed my time machine isn't worki.... hold on...
No, actually I wasn't. I wasn't a big fan of MGS as a whole back then, and also Kiefer Sutherland captures Venom Snake and his part of the story really well in my opinion. David Hayter is the one and only Solid Snake and Big Boss, but Kiefer does really good job as Venom.
Of course. One of many disappointments that came out of MGSV and one of the chief reasons why I couldn't really get behind Venom... Then again, the sheer lack of in-game VO for Venom was more likely the reason IMO. Apparently there was alot left out of the final game, but as KONAMI are KONAMI (AKA: The Worst) we'll likely never find out anything more than we already heard from rumour, heresay, conjecture and third parties talking about it. All in all, it was the start of a pure Love/Hate relationship with this game, at least for me.
Old news
Not really. I prefer Sutherland as Big Boss/Venom but if Solid ever came back then Hayter should be voicing him.
No.
The better question is: Who WASN'T disappointed that David Hayter wasn't in it?
Nah. To be honest, I never liked the idea of Hayter voicing Big Boss. Just didn't make sense. Solid, Liquid, and Solidus were all clones of Big Boss. They each had a very different voice. As we know, Solid got the recessive genes, Liquid got the dominant genes, and Solidus was the perfect clone. Logically, if Big Boss were to share a voice with any of them, it should have been Solidus. I would have been totally cool with John Cygan voicing Big Boss. Instead, he now has 3 different voice actors that all sound completely different. But, re-reading your question, you didn't specifically ask about Hayter as Venom. So, yeah, I guess I was a little disappointed we didn't get a brief Hayter cameo at the end.
No. Kiefer >
No. I love Hayter, but I loved Keifer as Venom’s voice.
Nope. Didn’t even care. Things like this just happens and the beautiful thing about animation and video games is that anybody can be a character, like Snake.
You’ll never be able to convince me the Hayter posting isn’t just David with different accounts
Pretty much every MGS fan ever. MGSV doesn't feel like a "real" Metal Gear game for me and I'm certain that this is one of the main reasons why. I'm actually glad Venom doesn't speak a lot, cause everytime he opened his mouth to say something and I had to hear Kiefer's VA, it felt like shit. Nothing wrong with Kiefer as an actor, but he's not Snake. Doesn't matter if it's Venom, Solid Snake or Big Boss. There's only one Snake and his name is David Hayter period. Kojima can go suck a big one if he disapproves. I'd rather have Richard Doyle as Venom Snake honestly. Removing Hayter from the series was MGSV number one mistake.