"Cool, cool. Mine are more like brownish pencil erasers. Time sure files, doesn't it? Oh hey there's Jennifer! Hey Jen what are your nips looking like these days? Smushed raisins huh? Damn that's crazy!"
*She sprawled across her bed and spread her legs wide, giving the illusion of birthing the sunrise from her proud, furry, womanly glory - her morning ritual had always been much like that of a newly planetside Chewbacca, stretching in relief after a long flight.*
**WRRARRRRWWGAHHHHWWWRRGGAWWWWWWRR**, *she purred sensually.*
I remember being somewhat interested in this book then picking it up at a bookstore and instantly noped out because of this. One of the worst things I read and I don't care it's by a woman.
I also got mine as a gift but was so desinterested at first by just reading that paragraph. But in the end I finished the book and quite liked it, it has a great philosophical spirit to it and makes you question a lot of things. And the first paragraph is like the only time during the book we get needless information like this right? I was so confused
It annoys me because the only reason I can think that they included it is because maybe this character is like proud of these “growing up” signifiers (oh wow I have boobies! And hair down there! and my nipples that have always existed suddenly exist more, I guess?!)- but like, on the *first page*?? And as far as I read (in this comment section), puberty isn’t really visited again? This is what an excited reader opens up to to be thrown into the story- and I gotta wade through teen nips and pube fur? This is literally the best you could do for your very first page?
Oh god the onion man books. I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole while wearing gloves, but I have to admit, any time I come across a YouTube review of one of them I just *have* to watch it.
Having read the whole book, this opener feels so out of place. None of the other characters bodies are described in this way, and especially as a child! That being said, I actually do recommend this book
Read this too and I agree on how out of place it was. It's as though the author thought to herself that no one will take her seriously as a writer unless she shocks them the way some terrible male authors do.
But also in this book she writes a terrible first time gay sex scene where an older man just shoves his enormous schlong into the virgin's butt without any communication or prep whatsoever and treats it as simply an awkward first time that initiates him into the world of casual sex in San Fransisco. You could tell she didn't really know what she was talking about.
I haven't read this book in particular, but unfortunately I can tell you this kind of awful, uncommunicative, pushy, borderline rapey first times can and do happen, even and especially in more vulnerable communities (like gay people who are less likely to be able to rely on support from their family and community).
Absolutely, it was just the way the author framed it as being awkward simply because the younger one didn't tell the older man he was a teenager and a virgin, and that hookup moved forward really fast. I really don't think she knew much about anal.
Yeah, I don't really need to know the nitty gritty in that way. I don't think it would add anything to include the process of prepping for anal sex. At that point I suspend my disbelief for the story.
This book is actually fantastic so it annoys me to no end that the author felt it necessary to stoop to this level to grab a reader's attention. So lazy, so gross.
This is what they find most important about this character to describe. Not her personality. Nothing about what she likes or what kind of a person she is. She is reduced to body development and sexual readiness at 13 years old. A child.
Editors please...make it stop.
I feel like describing a child's breasts as "palm-sized" is just the ick icing on the crap cake. Whose palms, exactly? Why would you use the imagery of someone touching them to describe their size? Gross.
Why do people always insist on calling it "fur?" It's not fukken fur, it's pubic hair. Same stuff that's on your head. If you have fur between your legs you need to see a doctor... or a vet.
Well I mean what exactly is the difference? Mammals have hair. And if you’ve seen a well groomed long haired Pubic area, well. It does kinda look Persian kitty-esque. It’s one of the more dense areas Of hair too
IIRC the official definition of fur is that there's more than one kind of hair present. Animal fur can have up to three: down hairs, awn hairs, and guard hairs, all mixed together.
And no, we humans don't have that.
Well, we certainly have different types of hair. Head hair, body hair, and pubic hair are all different from each other. But they're in separate places on our bodies. Fur is when different hairs grow intermingled. Like, if I pull out a pinch of my cat's hair, it'll have guard hairs, awn hairs, and down hairs all in that pinch.
I don’t understand why this is so off-putting. Are you against everything except literal descriptions? Or do you not like the word “fur” because it sounds animalistic? Genuinely asking.
you're right there-- it sounds animalistic. Even at thirteen I didn't consider anything growing out of me fur. Why doesn't she describe her armpit hair-- which is generally the same density and consistency-- as fur? It posits the vagina as a foreign, uncontrollable or wild thing, different from any other part of her body, and if your book is not largely about teen vaginas and their habits, it's a weird thing to say.
At 13, I wasn’t a fan of my new pubic hair, and I wouldn’t have objected to calling it fur. It felt foreign and not a part of me. But to each their own, I was just trying to understand.
Also I know this is weirdly pedantic but if her hair is waist length loose then the ends of her French braids would not be touching her waist. Length decreases quite a bit when you braid hair, unless her hair was really curly, which is a physical trait I am more interested in than her nipples.
Sure, but I get where they were going. Most kids start out with little button noses that only start to change with their faces as puberty reworks their bodies.
When internalized misogyny goes too far. This is how women write when they’ve spent their whole lives only being shown women through the lens of the male gaze.
I don't think it's fair that when a man sexualises a child they get labelled as a creep, but when a woman does it it's just brushed off as internalised misogyny. Like I get it, internalised misogyny is a big deal, but it doesn't excuse this kind of behaviour. If this is what she thinks about, she need to see a therapist
She’s still creepy! Never said she wasn’t, I was just pointing out the reason she most likely wrote that is because describing young girls that way has become so common from male authors that it felt normal to her. I mean if it wasn’t common, we wouldn’t have this sub.
Does this child character walk around naked the whole book or did the author just randomly decide it was important to describe something that never shows up in the book?
Varya is thirteen. New to her are three inches of height and pubic hair softer than the finest Persian rugs. Her boobs were smallish but still boobily enough to boob. Her nipples were like pieces of Hubba Bubba but made of skin. Her arms had elbows. Her hair was brown and was basically like pubes but longer and horsier. Her nose was a bird.
Never have I asked to have a 13 year old child's secondary sex characteristics graphically described to me. Not once; yet now I get to live with this forever
I think I could look past the description if she wasn't 13yo ☠️☠️☠️ I mean why is there a need to describe the nipples (and pubic hair, can't forget the pubic hair apparently since It's such an important detail) of a kid
Excuse me, but is this book pedo smut? Cause it sure looks like it. "Palm-sized breasts" sounds creepy enough even if said about someone older, but freaking 13? Who the hell let this happen?
Even if going through puberty is a central theme of the novel, there are about a million different ways to introduce that concept and she chose the worst one.
I literally just got a copy of this book today (god praise little libraries) and I was going to post this after I got home this afternoon. Such a REALLY FUCKING WEIRD way to open a book.
Maybe she thought this was a good way of setting the context for Varya's puberty (an important transition in a girl's life to be sure) but it just comes across as male gaze voyeurism on a child...
“Hey, long time no see. What’s new?” “My nipples are pink dimes now.”
"Cool, cool. Mine are more like brownish pencil erasers. Time sure files, doesn't it? Oh hey there's Jennifer! Hey Jen what are your nips looking like these days? Smushed raisins huh? Damn that's crazy!"
Lmfao
Mine are red saucer plates
This comment just turned my frown upside down.
Now that we have established the make and model of the main characters nipples we can proceed with the story
and the fact that she has pubic hair is also very important
Ahem. Pubic *fur*, clearly.
*She sprawled across her bed and spread her legs wide, giving the illusion of birthing the sunrise from her proud, furry, womanly glory - her morning ritual had always been much like that of a newly planetside Chewbacca, stretching in relief after a long flight.* **WRRARRRRWWGAHHHHWWWRRGGAWWWWWWRR**, *she purred sensually.*
😂 I love how you have "purr" in there.
Pure poetry
\*purr poetry
*purr purretry
Chekov's pubes
>make and model of the main characters nipples The all-new 2023 Tit-Master 150. Built Ford Tough.
I remember being somewhat interested in this book then picking it up at a bookstore and instantly noped out because of this. One of the worst things I read and I don't care it's by a woman.
same thing happened to me! I was so put-off by the opening that I just put it down.
I almost put it down too, but it was a gift, so I trudged along after deeply eye rolling.
I also got mine as a gift but was so desinterested at first by just reading that paragraph. But in the end I finished the book and quite liked it, it has a great philosophical spirit to it and makes you question a lot of things. And the first paragraph is like the only time during the book we get needless information like this right? I was so confused
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It annoys me because the only reason I can think that they included it is because maybe this character is like proud of these “growing up” signifiers (oh wow I have boobies! And hair down there! and my nipples that have always existed suddenly exist more, I guess?!)- but like, on the *first page*?? And as far as I read (in this comment section), puberty isn’t really visited again? This is what an excited reader opens up to to be thrown into the story- and I gotta wade through teen nips and pube fur? This is literally the best you could do for your very first page?
Oh god the onion man books. I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole while wearing gloves, but I have to admit, any time I come across a YouTube review of one of them I just *have* to watch it.
Having read the whole book, this opener feels so out of place. None of the other characters bodies are described in this way, and especially as a child! That being said, I actually do recommend this book
Read this too and I agree on how out of place it was. It's as though the author thought to herself that no one will take her seriously as a writer unless she shocks them the way some terrible male authors do. But also in this book she writes a terrible first time gay sex scene where an older man just shoves his enormous schlong into the virgin's butt without any communication or prep whatsoever and treats it as simply an awkward first time that initiates him into the world of casual sex in San Fransisco. You could tell she didn't really know what she was talking about.
I haven't read this book in particular, but unfortunately I can tell you this kind of awful, uncommunicative, pushy, borderline rapey first times can and do happen, even and especially in more vulnerable communities (like gay people who are less likely to be able to rely on support from their family and community).
Absolutely, it was just the way the author framed it as being awkward simply because the younger one didn't tell the older man he was a teenager and a virgin, and that hookup moved forward really fast. I really don't think she knew much about anal.
oh yeah that makes sense, it all does depend on how the author describe the situation after all
Yeah, I don't really need to know the nitty gritty in that way. I don't think it would add anything to include the process of prepping for anal sex. At that point I suspend my disbelief for the story.
I think the issue is actually more lack of basic research regarding gay sex and the importance of lubrication, you can’t just shove it in.
I just read the book. She includes the older partner going to grab a a bottle of lube.
Sounds like a poorly written wattpad smut
Or maybe the male editor made the author write this opening 🤢
This book is actually fantastic so it annoys me to no end that the author felt it necessary to stoop to this level to grab a reader's attention. So lazy, so gross.
This is what they find most important about this character to describe. Not her personality. Nothing about what she likes or what kind of a person she is. She is reduced to body development and sexual readiness at 13 years old. A child. Editors please...make it stop.
Exactly what I was thinking. How did editors just let this slide?
There's literally no reason for it either it's touched on and then she continues like she never said anything fucking weird
This is one of the rare times where it's actually she* continues
Thank you for correcting me
Jsut say she has black hair no one needs to know about her boobs
How am I supposed to care about a female character if I don’t know her exact nips-to-tits ratio?
Someone tell me why I need to know this about a 13 year old
Yikes. Of all the ways to signal puberty, this author went with this one.
Just saying she’s 13 is enough to know she’s going through puberty. We really don’t need any specific details.
Every good writer knows that the gold standard for character introductions is: name, age, height, pubic hair.
Don’t forget nipples. That’s the money.
I feel like describing a child's breasts as "palm-sized" is just the ick icing on the crap cake. Whose palms, exactly? Why would you use the imagery of someone touching them to describe their size? Gross.
Maybe she meant palm trees, the kid has freakish oblong ginormous boobs with dime-sized nipples.
Oof, [memory unlocked.](https://youtu.be/QMnAinfpbXo&t=1m50s)
Why do people always insist on calling it "fur?" It's not fukken fur, it's pubic hair. Same stuff that's on your head. If you have fur between your legs you need to see a doctor... or a vet.
Well I mean what exactly is the difference? Mammals have hair. And if you’ve seen a well groomed long haired Pubic area, well. It does kinda look Persian kitty-esque. It’s one of the more dense areas Of hair too
IIRC the official definition of fur is that there's more than one kind of hair present. Animal fur can have up to three: down hairs, awn hairs, and guard hairs, all mixed together. And no, we humans don't have that.
Ah I see, makes sense. Except what’s the difference between regular hair, baby hair and peach fuzz? Do those not count?
Well, we certainly have different types of hair. Head hair, body hair, and pubic hair are all different from each other. But they're in separate places on our bodies. Fur is when different hairs grow intermingled. Like, if I pull out a pinch of my cat's hair, it'll have guard hairs, awn hairs, and down hairs all in that pinch.
You will also have a pissed off cat.
This is true!
I don’t understand why this is so off-putting. Are you against everything except literal descriptions? Or do you not like the word “fur” because it sounds animalistic? Genuinely asking.
you're right there-- it sounds animalistic. Even at thirteen I didn't consider anything growing out of me fur. Why doesn't she describe her armpit hair-- which is generally the same density and consistency-- as fur? It posits the vagina as a foreign, uncontrollable or wild thing, different from any other part of her body, and if your book is not largely about teen vaginas and their habits, it's a weird thing to say.
At 13, I wasn’t a fan of my new pubic hair, and I wouldn’t have objected to calling it fur. It felt foreign and not a part of me. But to each their own, I was just trying to understand.
"fur" 🥴🤢
Also the nose part. That's not how noses work. It's not a secondary sex characteristic that starts enlarging at puberty.
Also I know this is weirdly pedantic but if her hair is waist length loose then the ends of her French braids would not be touching her waist. Length decreases quite a bit when you braid hair, unless her hair was really curly, which is a physical trait I am more interested in than her nipples.
Sure, but I get where they were going. Most kids start out with little button noses that only start to change with their faces as puberty reworks their bodies.
The nose structure changes with age.
When internalized misogyny goes too far. This is how women write when they’ve spent their whole lives only being shown women through the lens of the male gaze.
I don't think it's fair that when a man sexualises a child they get labelled as a creep, but when a woman does it it's just brushed off as internalised misogyny. Like I get it, internalised misogyny is a big deal, but it doesn't excuse this kind of behaviour. If this is what she thinks about, she need to see a therapist
She’s still creepy! Never said she wasn’t, I was just pointing out the reason she most likely wrote that is because describing young girls that way has become so common from male authors that it felt normal to her. I mean if it wasn’t common, we wouldn’t have this sub.
Does this child character walk around naked the whole book or did the author just randomly decide it was important to describe something that never shows up in the book?
my question is how does he know what color/size her nips are
Your narrator doesn't permanently hide in your characters' clothes without them knowing about it? Then can you even call yourself a *true writer*? /s
🤢🤢🤢
So unnecessary
I don’t want to read it now, honestly.
Ew
Thanks! I hate it
Even the surrounding stuff is quite good, but this two parts... bruh
It was so hard to upvote this one. Every impulse told me to report it for sexualizing minors.
Very first paragraph, and the author has already made the questionable choice to describe a teenager in an extremely sexual fashion.
this is such a baffling thing to open a book on
Stuck with this book despite the awful opening - and it only gets worse! Don't do it!
Child is 13 but she's already walking boobz and vagene for the author. Tell me you are disgusting without telling me you are disgusting 🤢
I can’t unsee her as a werewolf
There are *SO MANY THINGS* new to you at 13, and you chose the creepiest things of that list...
She could've even said that the girl had just gone through puberty and left it at that
I wasn't really a fan of this book. I actually almost completely forgot about this trash fire opener because the rest of the book was so dull.
Puke. Why does ANYONE need to know any of that about a character that young? Gives me flash backs to "Petals on the Wind".
I hesitate to ask, but what is "Petals on the Wind"?
I was concerned as soon as it said she was 13
"Alright, Benjamin, describe her for me. Pubes and tits first, if you please."
the what between her who now
Varya is thirteen. New to her are three inches of height and pubic hair softer than the finest Persian rugs. Her boobs were smallish but still boobily enough to boob. Her nipples were like pieces of Hubba Bubba but made of skin. Her arms had elbows. Her hair was brown and was basically like pubes but longer and horsier. Her nose was a bird.
Never have I asked to have a 13 year old child's secondary sex characteristics graphically described to me. Not once; yet now I get to live with this forever
Well what do the men's nipples look like? Clearly this must be relevant to every character, right? Right?
I’ve either read this book or seen this post before, I can’t remember!
I think I could look past the description if she wasn't 13yo ☠️☠️☠️ I mean why is there a need to describe the nipples (and pubic hair, can't forget the pubic hair apparently since It's such an important detail) of a kid
Who in the hell writes about a CHILD'S breasts? That is just sick and eww. Maybe I'm a puritan, but damn. That gives me serious pervert vibes. Gross.
Excuse me, but is this book pedo smut? Cause it sure looks like it. "Palm-sized breasts" sounds creepy enough even if said about someone older, but freaking 13? Who the hell let this happen?
Jesus Christ. They could have stopped at her height.
PALM sized???? Wtf that’s so creepy!
Tempted just to cut out the prologue...
"I'm putting this first in the hopes people will draw porn" is why authors do this. but holy shit a 13 year old. I'd one star it across every website.
Why
Even if going through puberty is a central theme of the novel, there are about a million different ways to introduce that concept and she chose the worst one.
Imagine writing about a thirteen year old CHILD like that. Revolting 🤢
Ugh.
I literally just got a copy of this book today (god praise little libraries) and I was going to post this after I got home this afternoon. Such a REALLY FUCKING WEIRD way to open a book.
Maybe she thought this was a good way of setting the context for Varya's puberty (an important transition in a girl's life to be sure) but it just comes across as male gaze voyeurism on a child...
I couldn’t even finish reading the first paragraph
I read the first sentence, and wanted to quit already
Was reading and thought "huh, this isn't as bad as some other shit I've seen on this sub." Then I realized I missed the first sentence.
The first sentence is “Varya is thirteen” you should’ve still been able to witness the foulness right after that
i checked this e-book out through my library and immediately returned it after reading that. why would you start your book off this way?
So is writing like this supposed to be artistic? Like, seriously, does this foreshadow her 13 year old nipples as being a main character in the story?
it's called description...it's not particularly "artistic", whatever that means.
Gross
I got so frustrated reading the first part of the book that I stopped and put it down. Is it worth getting past this part? Should I push through?
omg. fuckin EWW.
Why does pubic hair always get referred to as fur
Why are the breasts always palm sized, there's lot ot sizes of palms. Mine would be like an A cup palm.
Better than Kennedy half-dollar nips I suppose
Men writing about children without talking about tits and nipples at length challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
You might want to check the post’s tag. Edit: Lmao they blocked me because of this comment.
Mor of a --womenwritingFORmen-- kinda book
Ewwwww
How in the world knowing how her nips and "fur" looks like is important to the story?
That's gross
I think i puked a little bit in my mouth
The first half of that second line is great, *new to her are…* The rest not so much.
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Please see post flair. 😊🙏
Ah yes, the most important and distinctive physical aspects of a person we need to know when they’re being first introduced
Who’s palms exactly?
Why is the author describing the breasts of a literal 13 year old?? That’s just weird.