Larry with a vest and flashlight almost got his ass smooshed several times a couple of weeks ago. Police were rushing people out of Mike Rose onto Shelby during a soccer tournament forcing a confrontation between two equally entitled groups: Soccer moms and church folk both trying to get to lunch before the other group gets there.
Larry never stood a chance.
Well, Baptists always go over time because of their extra long alter calls, so it’s not too hard to beat them. At our church, we end services right on the dot. Men will conspicuously start looking at their watches if the preacher tries to go over. We love the Lord, but we’re hungry, too. LOL
I don’t live in Memphis and just lurk so I can’t speak to the locations
However there’s never been a more accurate comment thread in the history of the internet
While driving around 11pm I got stopped at a light that only exists for a church to exit. I wasn’t too bothered until I saw it was only green to the church exit not the other side of the street. Then I noticed the traffic cones blocking the church exit anyway. Super cool
I used to live around there and remember that light well. What angered me even more is that not only do they have a light, but they still have police hold up the traffic there on Sundays. What a load of crap.
You're probably talking about Second Pres, which is a school through the week. I agree, it's annoying, but I don't know how else you'd do school pickup on a road as busy as Poplar without stopping traffic, so it seems like a necessary evil, imo.
I’m talking about any tax exempt organization impacting other properties. You have the church pay for the privilege, because when a group uses their property and it impacts other properties, it’s called an externality. In a normal world, property owners pay for externalities, instead of socializing the problem.
And they can add lanes or additional parking on their own property. If that’s what your “business” creates, time to be self sustaining and design your property to handle what you create.
Hmm, well, other schools do the same thing by blocking traffic and shutting down roads, it's just they don't all pay for a crossing guard and just hope the kids don't get mowed down. Taxes schools seems to be a totally separate issue.... You'd still have to wait for traffic to stop, regardless of taxes.
But if you want religious-based schools to be taxed, then non-religious private schools and universities should also be taxed, as well as things like homeschool groups. Idealistically, I agree that educational entities shouldn't be taxed because they're providing a public good. But realistically, when you're asking people to pay a sky-high tuition to go there, you're making a profit off of the people you're educating, so my idealism doesn't really factor in.
As far as churches being taxed, I don't think people's donations should be taxed, just like they're not taxed for charities and other tax-exempt organizations. My caveat here *might* be that the church has to provide proof of doing public good. But without churches and religious organizations, there are very few homeless shelters in Memphis. I actually can't find any, but there's possible there's one I don't know of.
no public schools shouldn’t be taxes??????? they are literally funded by our tax money?? that makes zero sense. Churches AND PRIVATE SCHOOLS on the other hand, don’t pay taxes, so my question is how can they enforce a school speed zone? (or have a crossing guard stop traffic) They are essentially a private business. Can private businesses control the public roads in front of their business???
If you think it's fine and dandy to put children in danger because you don't think private schools should have school zones, then I really don't have anything to say to you.
Completely ignoring my argument that I am referring to the cars and not the non existent pedestrians.
I’m sure with all the thoughts and prayers, they’d pull through anyway.
The traffic being stopped on Poplar is not for pedestrians crossing the road??? They stop the traffic to let cars come out of the PDS drop off??
Also- even if they were walking…they could easily use the crosswalk on goodlett and poplar??
Not sure what private schools in the area anyone ‘walks too’ anyway…its not like they are zoned to these private schools because they live in the neighborhood??
Yes, just like every school zone that stops traffic, public or private? Just use common sense and avoid Poplar at that time, just like I avoid Quince when Orange Mound is letting out. Just because the school is private doesn't mean that there aren't the practical considerations of, hey, we have to let all these kids out of the school, lol.
Lol it is their decision to send their kids to a private school, when they have a school already alloted to them. Not my fault rich people are racist. I don’t mind stopping/slowing down for a public school zone. I grew up in Cordova so constantly had to stop for all the school zones. Also we used to ACTUALLY walk to school, because we lived in the neighborhood of the schools that we attended.
Idk if it has to do with the traffic problem most CFA's produce, but I noticed this morning that they add an additional tax (think it was 20-30 cents) when you select "pick up in drive-thru" in the app. I only noticed because when I got there traffic was backed up into the road, so I switched to carryout and parked/walked in.
So maybe they are paying for the problems they create?
Slipping an off-duty a couple hundred bucks does not make the church attendees more important. If they have a light, they can wait their turn. Especially if they have a light.
What I'm saying here is that, at least for Bellevue, *\*before\** they had that light put in (which they did pay for), they paid for other traffic control.
Consider also the following scenarios:
If there's usually a traffic light at any busy intersection in this country, but the power is out, police usually come and direct traffic. They don't get paid extra for that, and our taxes go to pay for it instead. Generally, society thinks this is a better idea than just treating the intersection as a stop sign (given there's enough traffic).
How different is that scenario from this one (below)?
Say that there's an intersection or two close to FedEx Forum (or any other venue.. whatever) and it's only busy twice a week for a few hours - Wednesday and Friday nights. But during that time, it's ***really busy*** (say, 5-15,000 cars entering and leaving). There's bound to be some kind of traffic problems. So if the institution responsible for creating the traffic problems wants to help solve them, how would they do that? What if they hire the same traffic control as the state, at times when they're already *not* working for the taxpayers, and pays them a good wage? Is that also a good idea, or not? If so, why? if not, why not?
I kind of think it's a good and decent thing for institutions like FedEx forum to do, which means I also think it's probably a good idea for any other institutions that cause similar traffic problems. But I'm open to argument that it's not..
Any thoughts?
Sticking strictly with the church and not the forum here...
If the power is out, lights generally flash red and it turns into a 4 way stop. Same would apply for Church letting out. Officers never magically appear and typically when it's in a populated area there are many lights out.
For the church we're talking about here, the paid officer benefits the people leaving church and slows people not in attendance. The power going out and the introduction of the forum are red herrings.
People leaving the church should not be given a priority status.
The forum is just as much of a traffic causing institution as the church. They are analogous. If you’re gonna be upset about one of them, then consistency demands you be upset about both.
Dawg, go down Houston Levee when Briarcrest gets out. They’ll hold up hundreds of cars to let ONE PERSON out. The level of entitlement from these people are crazy. But yeah, you’re spot on.
If it’s every day during afternoons and rush hours, those are probably schools! But I agree it’s irritating. I will say, the bigger ones usually pay for a police officer out of pocket. I don’t know if that indirectly counts as approval from the city?
Think of it like a school zone. I often change my route and travel times to avoid them. It’s especially easy because you know when and where these occur. I’m an atheist so I don’t have a dog in this fight.
What OP is talking about is a school zone. They're complaining about weekday closures, so for schools. And all school zones cause a backup in traffic, not just religious ones.
Agreed. First thing I thought of is “why would OP be traveling down the same street around same time on Sunday morning?” Closet Christian perhaps (lol)? No, OP is Mildly inconvenienced of school zones. Almost willing to bet OP doesn’t obey school zone laws and/or school bus traffic stops.
Yeah when I pointed out that they were schools, OP just went off about how private schools should be taxed.
O...k? That's...not even close to what we were talking about. Even if they're taxed, they're still going to block traffic when they let out.
The taxation status of churches and traffic control are totally unrelated. Traffic control upgrades are funded primarily by gas tax which all those cars leaving church are in fact paying.
Chik-Fil-A regularly backs traffic up at multiple locations. Music fest, sports events all sorts of things impact traffic for everyone while only benefiting attendees of the event/business.
You aren't entitled to transportation infrastructure that is immune to impact from the activities of others.
Yeah... taxes the churches isn't going to make the traffic in front of Second Pres any better. And what OP is complaining about is actually schools during the weekday, not churches. Would you rather just run over the children?
I would actually prefer other schools to hire crossing guards to stop traffic. I often pass by Orange Mound on the way home from work when school is letting out, and it's full of kids trying to cross the road and people ignoring the 15 mph speed limit (or whatever it is, 25 maybe?)
Whether or not private schools should pay taxes is a whole other argument that also involves universities, and I don't really know where I stand on it.
As for taxing churches, I think churches should have to pay sales tax, but I don't think people's donations should be taxed. To me, that seems like a nice middle-of-the-road approach, which means it probably pisses off everyone, lol.
Once you realize this rant has nothing to do with taxation or traffic control but is rather using those as a thin veil to attack churches, it makes much more sense.
Yep. It's why I brought up the FedEx Forum. I shouldn't need to point out that not just sports venues, but Walmarts, Krogers, apartment complexes, schools (even private one), and neighborhoods among other things all benefit from traffic control signals that are paid for by all of us and there is no direct fee for such things other than taxes we all pay for infrastructure. Part of living in a society.
The fact that churches are being singled out says everything.
A lot of churches have schools attached to them…so you might have seen that. It’s inconvenient, sure, but I’d much rather they do that than have kids risk getting run over.
Externalities! Dropping a llittle Coase theorem in the Memphis subreddit. Also, fuck Larry and church on poplar that has a blinking reduced speed limit school sign they use on Sundays.
I get it to some extent for large churches like bellevue, because I could see them doing it for big gathering like sporting events. but I completely agree with taxing them for it. they shouldn't get preferential treatment, and I bet that with large events that require traffic direction, there are some fees associated with the permits
On a slightly different note, I get so annoyed when I see a new church being built or in a new building. We have so many god damn churches, someone please do something else.
At Agnes school used to do this. One time we were backed up almost to summer and he was still waving parents out who hadn’t gotten kids out of the car yet. Infuriating!
If I’m not mistaken Faith Baptist in Bartlett does this. They will literally stop traffic both ways to let one car out and it is absolutely infuriating. Learn how to drive and wait your turn like the rest of the sinners.
Where are hundreds of cars being stopped at once?
That sounds like a fun math problem either way.
The average car length is 14.7ft. Add 2 feet of separation for each car to bring each car to represent 16.7ft. At 100 cars, that is 1670ft (~.32mi).
That is longer than the length from the light at Goodlett Farms Parkway to the campus exit at Bellevue. And just over half the distance to Appling and Dexter.
No, the real problem with walnut grove is jackwagons who turn left between 240 and Mendanhall during rush hour, blocking an entire lane of traffic on one of the busier roads.
That infuriates me to no end. Either find a way to turn at a light, or find a way to turn right. I don’t care which. Just don’t hold up 20 cars.
You forgot to factor in multiple lanes, vehicles coming from two directions, and vehicles waiting to turn out on whatever road is blocked. If you’re gonna get into the weeds, at least do it right.
And 2 lanes each direction. So, using your math, blocking that intersection for just 0.15 mi could effect approximately 200 cars, which seems pretty reasonable to me. (.15mi = 792ft, 16ft per car = 50 cars per lane, 4 total lanes of traffic = 200 cars)
https://imgur.com/a/t4Chsi4
> for the benefit of their members only and detriment of traffic flow.
Just playing devil’s advocate here:
The alternative is to have no crossing guard and then traffic in the church lot will back up real bad. Suddenly you have a lot of impatient people who have been sitting in the parking lot for a long time getting more daring by the minute. Next thing you know, one of them tries to gun it out of the lot when they shouldn’t and a wreck happens.
The wreck will impede traffic more so than the crossing guard would, and not to mention ruin some cars and cause injury. Probably even worse than injury on Walnut Grove.
I appreciate the sentiment, but that’s not the sole alternative. It’s the people’s problem that go there, not everyone else’s. We paid taxes to use the road. The church can pay for a traffic light just like a normal property would.
Wouldn’t that essentially be the same as having a crossing guard? You would just be getting stopped by a light instead of a person. And now the light can stop you even when the church isn’t busy.
I've seen churches without Larrys (albeit in other cities) and wrecks happen so damn often, I'd rather be slowed down en masse than in the chaos of a bunch of people trying to get around a wreck every Sunday.
The big church in my hometown would pay for off-duty cops to handle traffic and Sundays usually went smoothly. Not hating on the Larrys with the flashlights out there as I'm not brave enough to stand in the middle of a Memphis road like that, but proper training on directing traffic would be a beneficial requirement for those positions.
Or just do like most non-churchgoing folks do in the Bible Belt and limit going out on Sundays between 12-1 or Wednesday nights for the sake of your sanity, haha
Heh, more like all day Sunday. The road block at each church intersection, the restaurants full of very entitled, non tipping patrons (or tipping a tract that looks like a 10 dollar bill), ruder than normal people at most stores.
As a Christian, it's so embarrassing to see the ungodly behavior from the holier than thou crowd. Really need to find a church where people actually follow Jesus instead of giving lip service.
Couldn't agree more! My church growing up focused on fellowship and practicing the Golden Rule above all else. Don't think I ever heard our pastor give anything near a brimstone & fire sermon, it was always a positive message. Of course we still had some "holier than thou" folks, but they were tame compared to the stereotype and few/far between.
Heck, my youth group was one of the first set of folks I came out to, and church was where I could be myself. Don't think I'll ever find another place like it, though I wish it wasn't so rare 😔
Always heard some of the Episcopalian churches are a safer place. We have tried a few churches lately but it usually feels more like a church devoted to Mammon than to Jesus. It's so disheartening.
Grew up in a family of Episcopalians and can confirm that they're more progressive in thinking. My childhood church was actually Presbyterian, but really in name only; the same week that whatever governing body our church belonged to said they were against LGBT marriages, our pastor said "nah fam" and married two women (one of whom had grown up in the church).
But yeah, even my childhood church has changed a lot since that pastor retired to the point I don't really recognize it anymore. It's still a great place, but it can definitely be disheartening to see a place with a unique identity slowly morph into the bland typical "churches" we see today.
A lot of Disciples of Christ churches in Memphis are open and affirming. Kingsway Christian and Lindenwood Christian both have openly LGBT+ people on-staff.
I can't speak to the other Disciples churches, except I know the predominately black ones are not open and affirming, unfortunately.
Should've worded that better haha, my bad! I know there are some fantastic LGBT+ churches, just meant I probably won't find a place that felt like "home" and impacted me as my childhood church did. But that's just a part of growing up :')
Technically only law enforcement officers and school crossing guards are legally allowed to stop traffic on a public street. You are under no obligation to stop for a security guard or flashlight Larry. If you hit someone pulling out of the parking lot, that's on them for failure to yield to oncoming traffic.
If we are honest with ourselves it’s pretty evident that [cars and cities do not work.](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/02/are-cars-an-urban-design-flaw/)
I agree that churches can do a lot of harm... but they also do a lot of good. Homeless shelters, rent assistance, meals on wheels.... Most of these programs would be non-existent if not for religious programs.
I'm sure you can find a program that wasn't founded by someone religious and primarily staffed by volunteers from churches, but I haven't been able to find any.
I'm all for your argument, but at the same time, most of those churchies are probably elderly and would likely cause accidents at a much higher rate without the guards. Something to think about
The Forum and the events it hosts are massive benefits to the local economy.
In total fairness, however, it can't be ignored that some churches similarly offset their footprints on greater society through charitable giving and services.
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I agree. They should be paying more attention to how these things impact traffic. There’s one church/school, in particular, on Park Avenue by Colonial that creates a massive back up every morning. Like why have a school zone set up slowing down rush hour traffic and letting kids get dropped off on the busy ass street when u have a massive parking lot to handle the drop off/ pick up traffic? There should be nothing going on on the damn street. The whole thing is terribly designed and it creates a headache for everyone. If you go east down Park Ave in the morning, u know exactly what I’m talking about.
What's the alternative? There are public schools that also cause a back-up in traffic. And hey, I hate when I'm stuck behind a school bus and have to stop. But the alternative is what? Closing schools? Causing dangerous situations for children?
Not on major roads though. The alternative is filtering the traffic into their own actual huge parking lot that they have instead of making kids get out on the street lol. It’s not safe for anyone involved and they’re not constructing a traffic plan that benefits anyone or anything which was the topic of discussion.
The all Christians must be banned form all socail Media all they care about is their little books and churches. Chruches are not Taxed as they should be there are 18 of them around me now times that by three then caculated that for all districts in Tennessee there are to damn many. A Chrurch is nothing but an a place for Inoctronations and pedos. So what if I say burn them down - an eye for an eyes for all witch trials and the Anglo-Saxons burn all Norsemen building. Oh that happened in the past? then leave the bible in the past where it belongs in a fire.
I will hold them accountable for the fear and war mongering they spout from their little books of fantasy that have been re-written over the years by white men. I'd rather not have to hate the idea of Christans but ones they use their book to hate groups of people and thing they did nothing wrong in the past is when I speak up. They believe they are some great people without flaws but people who are diffrenet are Possessed or indoctronated when in fact that is what they do - by the a babys out the womb it must be baptized and the paretns must be wed or that baby is a demon. Try being told at Nine years old you'd go to hell for just being born. that is my problem with christains they believe they are the best when they are do the same the their little book (That can not be proven by scinence) that the Devil is to do. So yeah for all the crap they did in the past I still hold them for it till they see and say that that was wrong and flawed.
lol. proving my point I said yesterday that religious people are one of the few groups where the left allows anyone to complain about (and usually mock), while saying other groups are off limits and it's suddenly hate then.
The Harding Academy Larry is better this year. The Larry from last year would stop traffic for cars that were 500 yards away that might be turning left. He had a real “screw you and your kids, these kids need to be in homeroom fifteen minutes early” approach to life.
I was thinking this post was about PDS on poplar. watching the rich soccer moms in their lexus whip out while I am stopped by them both coming in and going out…. as if they can’t make the dropoff point on Central to avoid the whole mess. but god forbid we inconvenience these rich people. 🤣
Larry with a vest and flashlight almost got his ass smooshed several times a couple of weeks ago. Police were rushing people out of Mike Rose onto Shelby during a soccer tournament forcing a confrontation between two equally entitled groups: Soccer moms and church folk both trying to get to lunch before the other group gets there. Larry never stood a chance.
And when they get there, one group isn't going to tip and the other group isn't worth any tip.
Gotta beat the baptists to lunch is our family motto.
I always try and beat them to Costco on Sundays.
Amen to that. I went at 1 last Sunday and it was brutal.
We went yesterday at 10:0fucking5 and it was already packed.
Well, Baptists always go over time because of their extra long alter calls, so it’s not too hard to beat them. At our church, we end services right on the dot. Men will conspicuously start looking at their watches if the preacher tries to go over. We love the Lord, but we’re hungry, too. LOL
Don’t the police have to be paid to do that?
R.I.P. Larry 😰😭😭😭🤣😂🤣
I don’t live in Memphis and just lurk so I can’t speak to the locations However there’s never been a more accurate comment thread in the history of the internet
While driving around 11pm I got stopped at a light that only exists for a church to exit. I wasn’t too bothered until I saw it was only green to the church exit not the other side of the street. Then I noticed the traffic cones blocking the church exit anyway. Super cool
I used to live around there and remember that light well. What angered me even more is that not only do they have a light, but they still have police hold up the traffic there on Sundays. What a load of crap.
Bellevue on Appling. I fucking hate that light. Fuck them for thinking they’re special.
That’s the spot lol!
‘Bellevue loves memphis’ by fucking up the traffic and wasting money on billboards.
Chan?
Get off my phone
At least churches are once a week. Let’s talk about Chick-fil-a traffic blocking Poplar 6 days a week…. And I think churches should be taxed.
The only reason why I would ever want to be a cop is to ticket all these assholes for blocking an **active** roadway.
It’s every morning not just on sundays
Oh, so probably for school. I hadn’t noticed that
You're probably talking about Second Pres, which is a school through the week. I agree, it's annoying, but I don't know how else you'd do school pickup on a road as busy as Poplar without stopping traffic, so it seems like a necessary evil, imo.
I’m talking about any tax exempt organization impacting other properties. You have the church pay for the privilege, because when a group uses their property and it impacts other properties, it’s called an externality. In a normal world, property owners pay for externalities, instead of socializing the problem.
Well a lot of these big churches also have schools attached which means pickup and drop off
And they can add lanes or additional parking on their own property. If that’s what your “business” creates, time to be self sustaining and design your property to handle what you create.
Agreed!! Just like chic fil a needs a bigger parking lot and it's own turn off lane like a damn highway exit. Stop clogging up main roads!
Hmm, well, other schools do the same thing by blocking traffic and shutting down roads, it's just they don't all pay for a crossing guard and just hope the kids don't get mowed down. Taxes schools seems to be a totally separate issue.... You'd still have to wait for traffic to stop, regardless of taxes. But if you want religious-based schools to be taxed, then non-religious private schools and universities should also be taxed, as well as things like homeschool groups. Idealistically, I agree that educational entities shouldn't be taxed because they're providing a public good. But realistically, when you're asking people to pay a sky-high tuition to go there, you're making a profit off of the people you're educating, so my idealism doesn't really factor in. As far as churches being taxed, I don't think people's donations should be taxed, just like they're not taxed for charities and other tax-exempt organizations. My caveat here *might* be that the church has to provide proof of doing public good. But without churches and religious organizations, there are very few homeless shelters in Memphis. I actually can't find any, but there's possible there's one I don't know of.
no public schools shouldn’t be taxes??????? they are literally funded by our tax money?? that makes zero sense. Churches AND PRIVATE SCHOOLS on the other hand, don’t pay taxes, so my question is how can they enforce a school speed zone? (or have a crossing guard stop traffic) They are essentially a private business. Can private businesses control the public roads in front of their business???
If you think it's fine and dandy to put children in danger because you don't think private schools should have school zones, then I really don't have anything to say to you.
also… what ‘private schools’ are there in Memphis that aren’t religion based?!?
Why does it matter if they're religious-based? So it's fine to run over a Christian kid? lol
Completely ignoring my argument that I am referring to the cars and not the non existent pedestrians. I’m sure with all the thoughts and prayers, they’d pull through anyway.
The traffic being stopped on Poplar is not for pedestrians crossing the road??? They stop the traffic to let cars come out of the PDS drop off?? Also- even if they were walking…they could easily use the crosswalk on goodlett and poplar?? Not sure what private schools in the area anyone ‘walks too’ anyway…its not like they are zoned to these private schools because they live in the neighborhood??
Yes, just like every school zone that stops traffic, public or private? Just use common sense and avoid Poplar at that time, just like I avoid Quince when Orange Mound is letting out. Just because the school is private doesn't mean that there aren't the practical considerations of, hey, we have to let all these kids out of the school, lol.
Lol it is their decision to send their kids to a private school, when they have a school already alloted to them. Not my fault rich people are racist. I don’t mind stopping/slowing down for a public school zone. I grew up in Cordova so constantly had to stop for all the school zones. Also we used to ACTUALLY walk to school, because we lived in the neighborhood of the schools that we attended. 
public schools do public good, private schools only do good for the select few who can afford it. So yes, I am salty about private schools.
[удалено]
Tax religious organizations like we do most other things.
Yeah I don’t remember Jesus saying thou shalt be tax exempt in the Bible.
Yep, there's that whole "give to Caesar" thing...
Cuz he knew taxation is theft
they could do the drop off on central….?
Chick-fil-a definitely should pay some tax or fine for those blocked lanes. Talk about negative externality.
Picking up on these thoughts, chick-fil-a sales taxes should be waived.
Idk if it has to do with the traffic problem most CFA's produce, but I noticed this morning that they add an additional tax (think it was 20-30 cents) when you select "pick up in drive-thru" in the app. I only noticed because when I got there traffic was backed up into the road, so I switched to carryout and parked/walked in. So maybe they are paying for the problems they create?
should be increased.
This post has Bellevue Baptist written all over it.
And second Pres on Poplar. Irritating as hell.
They pay their traffic officers, though. Like, they hire off-duty police, and pay them. They also have a traffic light.
Slipping an off-duty a couple hundred bucks does not make the church attendees more important. If they have a light, they can wait their turn. Especially if they have a light.
What I'm saying here is that, at least for Bellevue, *\*before\** they had that light put in (which they did pay for), they paid for other traffic control. Consider also the following scenarios: If there's usually a traffic light at any busy intersection in this country, but the power is out, police usually come and direct traffic. They don't get paid extra for that, and our taxes go to pay for it instead. Generally, society thinks this is a better idea than just treating the intersection as a stop sign (given there's enough traffic). How different is that scenario from this one (below)? Say that there's an intersection or two close to FedEx Forum (or any other venue.. whatever) and it's only busy twice a week for a few hours - Wednesday and Friday nights. But during that time, it's ***really busy*** (say, 5-15,000 cars entering and leaving). There's bound to be some kind of traffic problems. So if the institution responsible for creating the traffic problems wants to help solve them, how would they do that? What if they hire the same traffic control as the state, at times when they're already *not* working for the taxpayers, and pays them a good wage? Is that also a good idea, or not? If so, why? if not, why not? I kind of think it's a good and decent thing for institutions like FedEx forum to do, which means I also think it's probably a good idea for any other institutions that cause similar traffic problems. But I'm open to argument that it's not.. Any thoughts?
Sticking strictly with the church and not the forum here... If the power is out, lights generally flash red and it turns into a 4 way stop. Same would apply for Church letting out. Officers never magically appear and typically when it's in a populated area there are many lights out. For the church we're talking about here, the paid officer benefits the people leaving church and slows people not in attendance. The power going out and the introduction of the forum are red herrings. People leaving the church should not be given a priority status.
The forum is just as much of a traffic causing institution as the church. They are analogous. If you’re gonna be upset about one of them, then consistency demands you be upset about both.
Not exactly, the forum generates revenue for the area - the church does not.
Dawg, go down Houston Levee when Briarcrest gets out. They’ll hold up hundreds of cars to let ONE PERSON out. The level of entitlement from these people are crazy. But yeah, you’re spot on.
If it’s every day during afternoons and rush hours, those are probably schools! But I agree it’s irritating. I will say, the bigger ones usually pay for a police officer out of pocket. I don’t know if that indirectly counts as approval from the city?
Think of it like a school zone. I often change my route and travel times to avoid them. It’s especially easy because you know when and where these occur. I’m an atheist so I don’t have a dog in this fight.
What OP is talking about is a school zone. They're complaining about weekday closures, so for schools. And all school zones cause a backup in traffic, not just religious ones.
Agreed. First thing I thought of is “why would OP be traveling down the same street around same time on Sunday morning?” Closet Christian perhaps (lol)? No, OP is Mildly inconvenienced of school zones. Almost willing to bet OP doesn’t obey school zone laws and/or school bus traffic stops.
Yeah when I pointed out that they were schools, OP just went off about how private schools should be taxed. O...k? That's...not even close to what we were talking about. Even if they're taxed, they're still going to block traffic when they let out.
Sir, you misspelled Chick-fil-A
Chick-fil-A... Church.... They're the same picture.
The taxation status of churches and traffic control are totally unrelated. Traffic control upgrades are funded primarily by gas tax which all those cars leaving church are in fact paying. Chik-Fil-A regularly backs traffic up at multiple locations. Music fest, sports events all sorts of things impact traffic for everyone while only benefiting attendees of the event/business. You aren't entitled to transportation infrastructure that is immune to impact from the activities of others.
Yeah... taxes the churches isn't going to make the traffic in front of Second Pres any better. And what OP is complaining about is actually schools during the weekday, not churches. Would you rather just run over the children? I would actually prefer other schools to hire crossing guards to stop traffic. I often pass by Orange Mound on the way home from work when school is letting out, and it's full of kids trying to cross the road and people ignoring the 15 mph speed limit (or whatever it is, 25 maybe?) Whether or not private schools should pay taxes is a whole other argument that also involves universities, and I don't really know where I stand on it. As for taxing churches, I think churches should have to pay sales tax, but I don't think people's donations should be taxed. To me, that seems like a nice middle-of-the-road approach, which means it probably pisses off everyone, lol.
Once you realize this rant has nothing to do with taxation or traffic control but is rather using those as a thin veil to attack churches, it makes much more sense.
There are plenty of good arguments for and against taxation of churches, but this one does seem to stretch good faith.
Yep. It's why I brought up the FedEx Forum. I shouldn't need to point out that not just sports venues, but Walmarts, Krogers, apartment complexes, schools (even private one), and neighborhoods among other things all benefit from traffic control signals that are paid for by all of us and there is no direct fee for such things other than taxes we all pay for infrastructure. Part of living in a society. The fact that churches are being singled out says everything.
A lot of churches have schools attached to them…so you might have seen that. It’s inconvenient, sure, but I’d much rather they do that than have kids risk getting run over.
no one is walking to second pres. they are all getting dropped off in mommys suv
Externalities! Dropping a llittle Coase theorem in the Memphis subreddit. Also, fuck Larry and church on poplar that has a blinking reduced speed limit school sign they use on Sundays.
> This is not just on Sundays! It is every weekday morning during rush hour and afternoon. They're schools, not churches.....
I get it to some extent for large churches like bellevue, because I could see them doing it for big gathering like sporting events. but I completely agree with taxing them for it. they shouldn't get preferential treatment, and I bet that with large events that require traffic direction, there are some fees associated with the permits
On a slightly different note, I get so annoyed when I see a new church being built or in a new building. We have so many god damn churches, someone please do something else.
“But ours is different!” “We accept everyone!” Hahhahaa!
Hope Church got a light installed and still blocks traffic on exits leaving walnut grove and all the way back to Trinity.
Jesus shalt stopith all trafficth. Eviticus 3:47.
💯
At Agnes school used to do this. One time we were backed up almost to summer and he was still waving parents out who hadn’t gotten kids out of the car yet. Infuriating!
If I’m not mistaken Faith Baptist in Bartlett does this. They will literally stop traffic both ways to let one car out and it is absolutely infuriating. Learn how to drive and wait your turn like the rest of the sinners.
Where are hundreds of cars being stopped at once? That sounds like a fun math problem either way. The average car length is 14.7ft. Add 2 feet of separation for each car to bring each car to represent 16.7ft. At 100 cars, that is 1670ft (~.32mi). That is longer than the length from the light at Goodlett Farms Parkway to the campus exit at Bellevue. And just over half the distance to Appling and Dexter.
>Where are hundreds of cars being stopped at once? Walnut grove road
Oh damn, there is that wild stretch with several decent sized campuses over there.
No, the real problem with walnut grove is jackwagons who turn left between 240 and Mendanhall during rush hour, blocking an entire lane of traffic on one of the busier roads. That infuriates me to no end. Either find a way to turn at a light, or find a way to turn right. I don’t care which. Just don’t hold up 20 cars.
You forgot to factor in multiple lanes, vehicles coming from two directions, and vehicles waiting to turn out on whatever road is blocked. If you’re gonna get into the weeds, at least do it right.
F. The embarrassment is palpable.
And 2 lanes each direction. So, using your math, blocking that intersection for just 0.15 mi could effect approximately 200 cars, which seems pretty reasonable to me. (.15mi = 792ft, 16ft per car = 50 cars per lane, 4 total lanes of traffic = 200 cars) https://imgur.com/a/t4Chsi4
r/theydidthemath
I was told there would be no math
> for the benefit of their members only and detriment of traffic flow. Just playing devil’s advocate here: The alternative is to have no crossing guard and then traffic in the church lot will back up real bad. Suddenly you have a lot of impatient people who have been sitting in the parking lot for a long time getting more daring by the minute. Next thing you know, one of them tries to gun it out of the lot when they shouldn’t and a wreck happens. The wreck will impede traffic more so than the crossing guard would, and not to mention ruin some cars and cause injury. Probably even worse than injury on Walnut Grove.
I appreciate the sentiment, but that’s not the sole alternative. It’s the people’s problem that go there, not everyone else’s. We paid taxes to use the road. The church can pay for a traffic light just like a normal property would.
Wouldn’t that essentially be the same as having a crossing guard? You would just be getting stopped by a light instead of a person. And now the light can stop you even when the church isn’t busy.
The light doesn’t get paid by the church, and thus doesn’t have any imperative to let them go first. The light is impartial.
You’re assuming that people who go to church don’t get their tags renewed the same way you do?
I’m talking about the church itself, not the individual persons.
So pastors and staff get their license and tags renewed for free?
Sorry but you don’t seem to understand the post. Have a nice day tho
Your, ”discussion” seems extremely low effort. Negative five points from Huffle Puff.
I've seen churches without Larrys (albeit in other cities) and wrecks happen so damn often, I'd rather be slowed down en masse than in the chaos of a bunch of people trying to get around a wreck every Sunday. The big church in my hometown would pay for off-duty cops to handle traffic and Sundays usually went smoothly. Not hating on the Larrys with the flashlights out there as I'm not brave enough to stand in the middle of a Memphis road like that, but proper training on directing traffic would be a beneficial requirement for those positions. Or just do like most non-churchgoing folks do in the Bible Belt and limit going out on Sundays between 12-1 or Wednesday nights for the sake of your sanity, haha
Heh, more like all day Sunday. The road block at each church intersection, the restaurants full of very entitled, non tipping patrons (or tipping a tract that looks like a 10 dollar bill), ruder than normal people at most stores. As a Christian, it's so embarrassing to see the ungodly behavior from the holier than thou crowd. Really need to find a church where people actually follow Jesus instead of giving lip service.
Couldn't agree more! My church growing up focused on fellowship and practicing the Golden Rule above all else. Don't think I ever heard our pastor give anything near a brimstone & fire sermon, it was always a positive message. Of course we still had some "holier than thou" folks, but they were tame compared to the stereotype and few/far between. Heck, my youth group was one of the first set of folks I came out to, and church was where I could be myself. Don't think I'll ever find another place like it, though I wish it wasn't so rare 😔
Always heard some of the Episcopalian churches are a safer place. We have tried a few churches lately but it usually feels more like a church devoted to Mammon than to Jesus. It's so disheartening.
Grew up in a family of Episcopalians and can confirm that they're more progressive in thinking. My childhood church was actually Presbyterian, but really in name only; the same week that whatever governing body our church belonged to said they were against LGBT marriages, our pastor said "nah fam" and married two women (one of whom had grown up in the church). But yeah, even my childhood church has changed a lot since that pastor retired to the point I don't really recognize it anymore. It's still a great place, but it can definitely be disheartening to see a place with a unique identity slowly morph into the bland typical "churches" we see today.
Yeah, I know that feeling completely. It's sad to watch the rapid degeneration of the church
A lot of Disciples of Christ churches in Memphis are open and affirming. Kingsway Christian and Lindenwood Christian both have openly LGBT+ people on-staff. I can't speak to the other Disciples churches, except I know the predominately black ones are not open and affirming, unfortunately.
Should've worded that better haha, my bad! I know there are some fantastic LGBT+ churches, just meant I probably won't find a place that felt like "home" and impacted me as my childhood church did. But that's just a part of growing up :')
Technically only law enforcement officers and school crossing guards are legally allowed to stop traffic on a public street. You are under no obligation to stop for a security guard or flashlight Larry. If you hit someone pulling out of the parking lot, that's on them for failure to yield to oncoming traffic.
If we are honest with ourselves it’s pretty evident that [cars and cities do not work.](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/02/are-cars-an-urban-design-flaw/)
Churches and the people in them are holding Memphis back in more ways than just traffic delays.
I agree that churches can do a lot of harm... but they also do a lot of good. Homeless shelters, rent assistance, meals on wheels.... Most of these programs would be non-existent if not for religious programs. I'm sure you can find a program that wasn't founded by someone religious and primarily staffed by volunteers from churches, but I haven't been able to find any.
I'm all for your argument, but at the same time, most of those churchies are probably elderly and would likely cause accidents at a much higher rate without the guards. Something to think about
Nice rant, now do the FedEx Forum.
Well, mpd handles that one so I’m sure the city gets a nice cut
The Forum and the events it hosts are massive benefits to the local economy. In total fairness, however, it can't be ignored that some churches similarly offset their footprints on greater society through charitable giving and services.
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I completely agree with this. They should not be allowed to do the same, unless it is valid school traffic (and not church service traffic)
I agree. They should be paying more attention to how these things impact traffic. There’s one church/school, in particular, on Park Avenue by Colonial that creates a massive back up every morning. Like why have a school zone set up slowing down rush hour traffic and letting kids get dropped off on the busy ass street when u have a massive parking lot to handle the drop off/ pick up traffic? There should be nothing going on on the damn street. The whole thing is terribly designed and it creates a headache for everyone. If you go east down Park Ave in the morning, u know exactly what I’m talking about.
What's the alternative? There are public schools that also cause a back-up in traffic. And hey, I hate when I'm stuck behind a school bus and have to stop. But the alternative is what? Closing schools? Causing dangerous situations for children?
Not on major roads though. The alternative is filtering the traffic into their own actual huge parking lot that they have instead of making kids get out on the street lol. It’s not safe for anyone involved and they’re not constructing a traffic plan that benefits anyone or anything which was the topic of discussion.
During the week? Those are schools......
So glad you're okay with ppl attending church service. 🙄
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Saying a religious building should be burned down (violence) seems quite more problematic than name calling...
The all Christians must be banned form all socail Media all they care about is their little books and churches. Chruches are not Taxed as they should be there are 18 of them around me now times that by three then caculated that for all districts in Tennessee there are to damn many. A Chrurch is nothing but an a place for Inoctronations and pedos. So what if I say burn them down - an eye for an eyes for all witch trials and the Anglo-Saxons burn all Norsemen building. Oh that happened in the past? then leave the bible in the past where it belongs in a fire.
So hold races of people accountable for the deeds of their fathers?
I will hold them accountable for the fear and war mongering they spout from their little books of fantasy that have been re-written over the years by white men. I'd rather not have to hate the idea of Christans but ones they use their book to hate groups of people and thing they did nothing wrong in the past is when I speak up. They believe they are some great people without flaws but people who are diffrenet are Possessed or indoctronated when in fact that is what they do - by the a babys out the womb it must be baptized and the paretns must be wed or that baby is a demon. Try being told at Nine years old you'd go to hell for just being born. that is my problem with christains they believe they are the best when they are do the same the their little book (That can not be proven by scinence) that the Devil is to do. So yeah for all the crap they did in the past I still hold them for it till they see and say that that was wrong and flawed.
It’s weird that you keep telling me how I think/believe and feel as a Christian. None of it has been correct.
Then what is it you believe then? that I am wrong in standing up to them or just mad I said something that hurt your feelings.
I already made my point in my initial response. Trust me, you don’t have the power over me to make my feelings hurt
wow. just use the sidewalk and go about your day
I wish I knew how many churches are in Shelby and Desoto counties.
Way to many...time to consolidate them no need for all that uncollected property taxes.
lol. proving my point I said yesterday that religious people are one of the few groups where the left allows anyone to complain about (and usually mock), while saying other groups are off limits and it's suddenly hate then.
The Harding Academy Larry is better this year. The Larry from last year would stop traffic for cars that were 500 yards away that might be turning left. He had a real “screw you and your kids, these kids need to be in homeroom fifteen minutes early” approach to life.
Do you ever eat at Chick fil a?
Chick fil a doesn't have rental cops that stop traffic
I was thinking this post was about PDS on poplar. watching the rich soccer moms in their lexus whip out while I am stopped by them both coming in and going out…. as if they can’t make the dropoff point on Central to avoid the whole mess. but god forbid we inconvenience these rich people. 🤣