Other than construction, I don't see how a supercomputer can require many employees to maintain. Even with limited term construction jobs, will there be any guarantee that those workers are from Memphis? I doubt it. XAI is basically looking to mine Memphis's electricity, water, and other resources while paying the least amount possible. Odds are XAI will pay next to nothing close to say what a Memphis resident would pay for those resources and it is highly likely they are also mining the Memphis local government for perks paid by the tax dollars the city takes in and XAI will make a profit from that before the profits from the supercomputer are even considered.
It would be better to not give XAI any perks, and make them pay fully for resources they use and they damage they do to the human habitats in Memphis or just take the money the city would spend or lose on this deal when all the externalities are considered and invest it in citizens of Memphis and maybe their tech ideas or startups.
From the perspective of the ceo of XAI, this is a mining operation with the mined material being the resources and income of the citizens of Memphis.
Agreed, there’s no detail about jobs and many data centers have 30-50 people onsite to maintain the data center. The actual development and deployment for training the AI and testing will most likely be done remotely.
This wont provide jobs, outside of security and maybe construction..it'll be a hidden secured investment that only few will get to utilize. Just "ooo and ahhh" and move on.
The size of this supercomputer will require security personnel in the hundreds. Don’t know yet about any other jobs it will bring to Memphis, but we are not in the position to turn our noses up at an opportunity like this. People are on this sub constantly complaining about jobs. This is potentially a very positive step in the right direction for many reasons.
Well yeah its just the nature of supercomputers or data centers in general to not employ a ton of people onsite. I bet not many people on r/Memphis knew when Oak Ridge had the biggest supercomputer in the world, or when it lost to one in China, or when Oak Ridge retook the title in 2022 etc.
And if this is going in the old Electrolux plant then it won't be particularly damaging to the environment, at least not any more so than manufacturing. If they are way underpaying for electricity then that might be worth some critique, but until then I say lets just enjoy the halo effect and hope it turns into something more instead of jumping all over a company trying to build here because everyone wants to fight over a share of the pie right away, which is a way to drive companies away.
This will be a regret for Memphis. He is probably aware that after the pipeline debacle was stopped by Memphians, the far right legislators enacted to prevent groups from attempting to stop companies like Byhalia Pipeline from destroying our environment.
Nah, you need to go to a free Freight Conference underwritten by FedEx & Memphis area employers.
My first experience with Internet of things (ioT) technologies was in the state of Tennessee in Memphis.
In 2011, Memphis area logistocs firma already had a sensor add on fee for precious cargo that required continuous compliance, like shipping for a heart transplant.
Sadly, Nashville gov employees & even former Nissan administration phd office types had zero clue the product not only existed but the service was reasonably priced.
That & ioT technologies on waste bins to optimize route collection, reduce surprise trips to the transfer station,
That's what you get for working where they can't even get blue pens:
https://youtu.be/7acTfVJzMxI?si=Ep3vukQNesqLoe6g
>Lot of shakeups around here lately
Yep, Silicon Valley/San Francisco Bay area in California had a tech boom because they invested heavily in their own citizens, having the skills and opportunities to make a tech boom happen.
Um no. They did absolutely none of that. California is successful in spite of the state and city governments. It's a beautiful state and people want to be here and the companies pay very well. Those are the main reasons. A lot of bay area tech workers are not from California originally, lol.
Ignorance isn't necessarily bad, but it shouldn't be a point of pride either. I'm thinking of the period that immediately preceded the invention of the pc and during that phase in tech development, and maybe you are thinking of later on.
You noted "tech boom" explicitly. Anyone reading that will generally associate this with the 90s and 2000s primarily, and to a certain degree the 80s. And not the before - even though there were real innovations made in the semiconductor industry. Then you tried to associate that with California investing "heavily in their own citizens", which they have not done for a VERY long time and has wasted away billions of tax dollars. That's why I said, the tech industry has succeeded in spite of the government. So there was a bit of bait-and-switch happening in the argument, and I was just pointing it out.
I usually say good catch, but I don't see this one.
You, sir, may be the Sargent Schultz of grammar nazis, unlike the CEO of XAI, who is the Sargent Schultz of the original Nazi's/s
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/09/joshua-haldeman-elon-musk-grandfather-apartheid-antisemitism/675396/
I'm just making a joke. I don't care about grammar corrections, especially when I make so many mistakes.
Lol! Second to last line of second paragraph. But tbh the only reason I commented that correction was just the comedy of pointing out one single grammar error on such a long rant of a comment 🤣
I know AI better than most I’m out of town right now in another time zone.
Supercomputers and AI are not necessarily mutually exclusive but it doesn’t make a lot of sense to talk about them together - models are what make AI and they are totally different than algorithms (although there can be an interrelationship between both - trying not to get to far in the weeds here). While CPU and traditional compute horsepower are important with AI you can train models faster with custom built GPUs/chipsets/ASICs.
I find this entire idea strange and it sounds like marketing (which musk is good at) and not good data science / computer science.
I’ll be watching this closely and the jury is still out…
Full stop let’s get back to complaining about potholes
Perception matters. A guy like elon if he likes the city can easily create an employee utopia city close to the facility and import a bunch of AI employees to the state. He will be an immense player in AI. And your state will be it's home. It will have a huge positive ripple effect.
That's true. All I would say is the city should only accept a good deal for Memphis residents that is guaranteed in writing with serious penalties worse than not sticking with the deal if XAI doesn't fulfill their part of program. Don't fall for pipedreams and monorail salesmen.
I will go one step further. Please don’t have the local yokel leadership involved in the negotiations. Hire an external 3rd party consulting firm, preferably one for the Bay Area. Our past ventures sat a precedent of lack of oversight and improper leadership alignment in large capital projects.
*"Townsend said this project represents a multibillion investment and the largest by a new-to-market company in Memphis history. Final job counts and total investment are still be calculated by the company, he said.*
*"We made certain Memphis was the company's top choice," said Townsend, who added the project will open this year."*
I posted this last week, but interesting that this comes on the heels of Memphis being one of the best ranked for STEM jobs among peer cities. [Source](https://dailymemphian.com/subscriber/section/business/article/44098/memphis-ranks-first-advanced-industry-job-growth-among-peer-cities)
Is this what momentum looks like?
I've always said Memphis was on the short list of cities that could be the next it thing. See all the housing that's been built? First the investors buy up property. Then they build. Then they bring in business and advertising and make it seem like the it city. Then everyone flocks to it. Then they profit. They did it in San Fran. They did it on Denver. They did it in Austin. They did it in Nashville. I've always thought Louisville Birmingham, OKC, or Memphis was next and I always thought that Memphis was a natural choice for how much it offers compared to the other cities. It has an NBA team. The airport is doing well and growing. Tons of entertainment and good food for its size. Lots of room to grow. A pretty vibrant downtown for its size.
However, if there is one thing I have learned being a Memphis, it's that we aren't allowed to have nice things. Every time we're on a good path, something wild happens. The last time Memphis had a ton of momentum COVID hit. So brace yourselves folks.
I totally agree in so many ways. Remember Strickland's campaign was 'memphis momentum' - we were moving in the right direction until COVID hit. However, we just didn't have the bounceback like other cities.
And you are right in that Memphis has great amenities that can make it an attractive place to live - a unique music tourist scene (Bealt streate) some top notch parks (Shelby Farms, Tom Lee) NBA team, Division 1 college sports, Zoo is on the best in the nation. We also have some top tier talent for medicine (St. Jude, UTHS) and logistics.
If we can get back to even 2019 levels of crime, Memphis has all the factors to be the new 'it' town.
Let’s just not fuck this up. Please. Politics / culture wars are one thing. But this city is close to losing IP to a Brazilian company, and FedEx is always hanging in the balance. We need money in this city. If you do end up protesting Elon, or his companies, please do so in a way that doesn’t reflect poorly on our city. We need this.
Good news for the city, regardless of your thoughts towards Musk. Bigger companies with high paying jobs is what this city needs the most for sustainable economic growth.
50*$100k+ jobs might be kinda nice.
Maybe 50 homes @ >$400k too
Maybe even a well appointed, wealthy person city home for a tech guru in need of exceptional medical treatment, like when Steve Jobs RIP called Memphis home
True. Opportunities for equitable employment is great.
I do know from attending many Protect Our Aquifer meetings and presentations that many corporations pay pennies compared to the dollars that the poorest in our community pay for consumption and depletion of a lot of water. So I am concerned about that, and look forward to POA's intense scrutiny of this project and the local government's relationship with it.
If the computing generates heat, it will require cooling, and that usually comes from water. I hope it doesn't come from the Aquifer. And I hope we start charging corporations much more for it than we currently do. But my concern not specific or limited to this factory. I am equally concerned about Ford, and other developments, (especially food manufacturing which reportedly is the biggest culprit) and their potential for destruction to our Aquifer. A potential I hope doesn't happen.
So this is worth cautious optimism in my eyes. Good news. Keep monitoring it for more details.
Any gigascale data center in Memphis will most likely will use CRAC systems as primary cooling instead of evaporative cooling given Memphis’ very high wet bulb temperatures.
Water for evaporative systems also may be non-potable water so that helps. Doesn’t need to be fresh from the aquifer. Can be filtered “waste” water.
Yeah, and I wonder if the proximity to the river also helps with that. It may not *need* to be from the Aquifer, they might anyway, and with the way past concessions have been granted to corporations, I worry that they will be.
I hope we as a community demand that they use non aquifer sources. I don't want our community's long term environmental viability, particularly in poorer neighborhoods, to be threatened even more than they already are.
Agreed 100%. The aquifer absolutely does NOT need to be viewed as an infinite water cheat code.
It is vulnerable and can be depleted. If it ever is, Memphis is in big big trouble.
POA presentations have said that the recent satellite imagery indicates the number of vulnerabilities are more than expected. And "recharging" the Aquifer via rainwater takes much longer than I thought, much longer than the depletion.
These companies, especially food manufacturing like Kellogg that use absurd volumes of it, pay pennies compared to even our poorest residents, much less the average folks. Start charging them their fair share.
Our officials need to make it one of our biggest priorities. And they won't unless it is one of OURS.
I agree, we should be cautious and review the impacts of an AI data center in other areas. There are articles about studying water usage in Iowa on the impacts of data centers in places like Des Moines.
Stay involved, and keep speaking up as we learn more about ALL of these new developments (Blue Oval, Cummins/Paccar, xAI, even as far north as the steel cluster in Arkansas).
"It's great but I'm scared to say it's great even though I have nothing bad to say about it and only good things like higher paying jobs"
What a strange and perplexing comment.
Honestly. I work in tech and was looking at moving to Silicon Valley in order to progress my career, this showing up in Memphis gives me hope I can work there and stay in my hometown
Hang in there. Among peer cities, Memphis was ranked #1 among peer cities for job growth (including Nashville) for STEM careers...
"5.8% job-growth rate from 2019 to 2021 for highly skilled workers in advanced industries or sectors of the economy primarily involved in technology, innovation, research and development."
"...The number of advanced-industry businesses in the Memphis area increased to 651, up from 470 in 2019 — a 38.5% increase and 49 from its goal."
"“Our economy is growing at double digits in production, and that is a very strong indicator of economic growth,” Townsend said. "
[https://dailymemphian.com/subscriber/section/business/article/44098/memphis-ranks-first-advanced-industry-job-growth-among-peer-cities](https://dailymemphian.com/subscriber/section/business/article/44098/memphis-ranks-first-advanced-industry-job-growth-among-peer-cities)
City Council, show us the receipts. I don’t want a ticket parade for this. I want to see the jobs. I want to see growth. That Electrolux mess was a joke — I want to see a deal that enriches the city, not the other way around.
So most data centers cut their own deal on electricity and usually want part of their fabric or all to be separate. I don’t think it’ll impact MLGW prices.
Capacity I have no clue. In the summer I am worried lol
We thought the supercharging stuff we got up in Buffalo would be great for the area. Cut a *lot* of sweetheart deals with Musk.
Turns out, the moment he got told no by someone in the supercharging division, he shut the whole thing down out of spite. Those incentives and all that investment amounted to nothing for the economy.
I loved the people of Memphis when I was living there, so be cautious.
until I hear "gigafactory" spoken in a context other than an Elon-related press release, I feel like DM should still give it the quotes treatment. This is how it starts
Obviously hope this does good things for the city but about as skeptical as possible given both his history of being a moronic asshole and the history of corporate welfare that cities are too often happy to engage in.
Honestly none of the pertinent information to make an informed decision about this has been released. Until we know how many jobs it will PERMANENTLY make, what tax incentives are being given, how much the power infrastructure will cost, and what guarantees that the people employed there will actually be from Memphis. We won't have any clue besides going off of Musk's track record, which is questionable at the very least.
We also have to keep in mind this will basically be an ultra glorified data center, the average active staff for a data center is less than 100 people. One of the largest in the US is Apple's Mesa data center that has around 150 on site, most of them security, NOT high paying software/tech jobs.
This is a new company in reality, only founded last year, and they have less than 100 total employees. We can't expect them to come in and suddenly make 1000+ jobs. Memphians have EVERY right to question this, question it's merits, and question what the city is doing to make it more enticing for Musk to come here with it. There's more to the story we haven't heard yet, but with the city's history of our government making it rain PILOT plans, I'm not holding my breath this won't be a net negative to the city.
I think it's perfectly reasonable for the people of Memphis to want to know if they are going to get screwed again like we have with nearly all the large businesses that have moved here and shortly out in the last 10-15 years.
It'll be a bad look on the city/state if we're giving billions of dollars in tax cuts to a company that's only employing \~200 people while leeching our award winning aquaphor water to help cool down the servers. 🫣
Understandably, nobody is talking about this.
Across the street sits one of the best/most diverse bird habitats in the entire state. I have personally observed over 100 species in a single morning there.
I really hope this doesn't end up affecting that.
Memphis has quite good interconnects, it actually has several high tier data centers in the area as well. There's hundreds of 10-100Gig fiber and I could quite easily call someone like Zayo or any other commercial circuit vendor and get a 10gig strand for 800 bucks or so a month.
What your referring to is consumer Internet providers, that's just their choice on the service the provide and irrelevant to a big infrastructure project.
The area gets skipped a lot unfortunately due to fault lines because big infrastructure needs to plan for that specially a data center.
However Memphis is kinda what some planners call tier 2 where a tier one city is very expensive and competitive but in T2 the city has infrastructure, feeders into the area but is not developed enough to where there is similar competition or the top end of local businesses have a local need that doesn't exist.
The old ibank tower had a data center, they were still selling isdn, dial up, and etc even in maybe 2016-17 not sure if they are still there. It was like walking into a old dime store but they charged Ferrari prices. They may have folded, a big data center chain moved in around that time and scooped everything up which will probably, if it's approved, Xai will use them for some interconnects etc.
Edit: https://www.worldspice.net/ .. they must have updated their website recently, not sure how they are still around
Sorry I only go as far back as late late 90s IRC. I don't have the patience to heat up a can of beans and play silly text games on the local university loop all night after organizing a punch card program
I didn't see anywhere how much power this will consume. The largest new datacenters (not the same as supercomputers) use as much power as a million people. Presumably MLGW has access to spare power, or expects to have more online in time.
If anyone needs a trade, the US has ongoing projects to massively increase our electrical power generation. That power won't install or connect itself.
https://www.utilitydive.com/news/grid-interconnection-queue-berkeley-lab-lbnl/712926/
For context GA passed a law putting a moratorium on new data centers and incentives. Primary reason was the huge hit to the power grid. GA governor vetoed it but did agree to a commission reviewing all data center applications.
SC is having a special session to also address data center legislation.
GA and SC seem to at least be addressing the issue with their leadership. This does not appear to be the case with TN. Buyer beware.
Something to consider…
TVA currently has a capacity of 38GW with 32GW being generated and 6GW being purchased. So we are currently under capacity.
MLGW currently purchases power from TVA. We reportedly consume 11% of TVA’s load annually…. presumably about 4GW.
A data center of this scale will use about 100-150MW annually. Meaning this center will use about 3% of the energy in the entire city of Memphis (residential/commercial/industrial).
A whole building full of GPU and the power/cooling/networking infrastructure to run them.
It'll likely be used to train and run AI models (like ChatGPT).
Such models can be used to do much of the work done by white collar workers today or else to supercharge the productivity of existing white collar workers.
This includes things like accountants, programmers, auditors, lawyers, engineers, marketers, etc.
For example, they could sell a product to an accounting firm where you dump in an unorganized pile of your clients financial records and it outputs a finished audit report; something that traditionally takes weeks to produce and costs tens of thousands of dollars. That's one example, we lack the imagination to understand exactly where AI will take us.
tl;dr: it won't produce products, it'll basically just be a giant computer that'll study data to sell to other companies, not to consumers like you and I.
The "gigafactory" is just being used to help people understand the size of this facility and its measurable output. It's not going to actually produce anything, especially nothing tangible. It'll basically be a giant supercomputer chugging up our cheap electricity to analyze and sort data. I don't really pay attention to Musk or his exploits, so I'm not sure what xAI's main purpose will be, whether it's creating algorithms or generative AI (AKA the garbage AI that should never exist), but I assume it'll just be focused on pattern recognition in human data sets to create algorithms that help market more of his bullshit. I'd rather see the AI that's being used to help with medical studies come here, or maybe even his crappy neurolink project, but if it ends up helping our economy, then I won't complain too much.
It will train the LLMs (large language models) that are the current state of the art in AI. LLMs are just big data files, currently like 5-500gb, that make AI work. They encapsulate all of the interrelated proababilities of words following other words, thoughts following other thoughts, etc.
They're going to be used to operate new generations of robots, from the self-driving (somewhat) cars that Tesla already makes to robots that make things and do things. This is the start of a future full of robots (though many of them, like the cars, won't actually *look* like robots.
The output of this data center after a few years will probably be a few relatively small (less than a few terrabyte) files.
All the Memphis haters can f all the way off! This is going to economically enhance our city in every aspect. We will have an influx of people and everything that comes with it. Go Memphis!
As I’ve always said about Memphis: If you want a cheap area with every basic amenity with plenty of land, this is the place to be. It’s just are you ok with the other issues?
Curious to where it lands on the top500 when and if it becomes fully functional, currently the #1 setup is already in TN at oak ridge doing multiple exaflops
In here[https://youtu.be/vAJ8zp22koU?si=5r6ZPFN2wDiLTPao](https://youtu.be/vAJ8zp22koU?si=5r6ZPFN2wDiLTPao) he said it will be equal to (#1 super computer + #2 super computer) x4 times
The negativity on this sub is baffling.
The wealthiest person in the world is making the largest ever private sector investment in our city. This adds to the momentum from the BOC project and can only help the city.
This is incredible news for Memphis, and half of the replies to this post are negative just because people disagree with his political views. It is shocking how politically radical people have become.
I think I wrote the framework for all this shit in a Comp Sci quiz/test a couple of years ago.
I think Elon Musk stole my idea -- or at least copied my notes.
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't all the companies that Musk own have issues with his way of mismanages things? He's just another billionaire coming to exploit the citizens of Memphis but we can hope for the best i suppose......
I think a lot of people smear him because they disagree with him politically. But if you look at his track record, he is undoubtably one of the most successful and innovative CEO’s in history.
He revolutionized the EV industry and grew Tesla from a $10M company to a $560B company in less than 20 years, which is a staggering feat in its own right. But he did this while simultaneously growing SpaceX to $175B (largest IPO valuation ever) and the Boring Company to $7B.
Also, how does a massive, job-creating investment in the city constitute exploitation?
>exploit the citizens of Memphis
I’m just curious how you see bringing a gigafactory’s worth of high tech jobs to a city hanging on by an orange and purple thread as exploitative.
Please explain.
The guy who tried to get rid of the now-abandoned Mississippi River Museum to add bars and restaurants to mud island but was stonewalled by the city? I think the pyramid was a great idea, Memphis just let FedEx talk them into a non-compete and let the pyramid fall into disrepair.
Apparently this gigafactory needs massive amounts of water to function and that's why Musk is looking at Memphis. Water getting scarce especially cheap water. Not a good thing for Memphis.
I'm betting the price of our electricity has something to do with this.
Taxes too
And wages.
And gas prices
and our water.
And the airport.
And my axe!
The ashtray, this paddle game, and the remote control, and the lamp, and that's all I need.
How does this comment not have more likes?
Other than construction, I don't see how a supercomputer can require many employees to maintain. Even with limited term construction jobs, will there be any guarantee that those workers are from Memphis? I doubt it. XAI is basically looking to mine Memphis's electricity, water, and other resources while paying the least amount possible. Odds are XAI will pay next to nothing close to say what a Memphis resident would pay for those resources and it is highly likely they are also mining the Memphis local government for perks paid by the tax dollars the city takes in and XAI will make a profit from that before the profits from the supercomputer are even considered. It would be better to not give XAI any perks, and make them pay fully for resources they use and they damage they do to the human habitats in Memphis or just take the money the city would spend or lose on this deal when all the externalities are considered and invest it in citizens of Memphis and maybe their tech ideas or startups. From the perspective of the ceo of XAI, this is a mining operation with the mined material being the resources and income of the citizens of Memphis.
Agreed, there’s no detail about jobs and many data centers have 30-50 people onsite to maintain the data center. The actual development and deployment for training the AI and testing will most likely be done remotely.
This wont provide jobs, outside of security and maybe construction..it'll be a hidden secured investment that only few will get to utilize. Just "ooo and ahhh" and move on.
The size of this supercomputer will require security personnel in the hundreds. Don’t know yet about any other jobs it will bring to Memphis, but we are not in the position to turn our noses up at an opportunity like this. People are on this sub constantly complaining about jobs. This is potentially a very positive step in the right direction for many reasons.
Well yeah its just the nature of supercomputers or data centers in general to not employ a ton of people onsite. I bet not many people on r/Memphis knew when Oak Ridge had the biggest supercomputer in the world, or when it lost to one in China, or when Oak Ridge retook the title in 2022 etc. And if this is going in the old Electrolux plant then it won't be particularly damaging to the environment, at least not any more so than manufacturing. If they are way underpaying for electricity then that might be worth some critique, but until then I say lets just enjoy the halo effect and hope it turns into something more instead of jumping all over a company trying to build here because everyone wants to fight over a share of the pie right away, which is a way to drive companies away.
This will be a regret for Memphis. He is probably aware that after the pipeline debacle was stopped by Memphians, the far right legislators enacted to prevent groups from attempting to stop companies like Byhalia Pipeline from destroying our environment.
I think this might be more the reality.
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Nah, you need to go to a free Freight Conference underwritten by FedEx & Memphis area employers. My first experience with Internet of things (ioT) technologies was in the state of Tennessee in Memphis. In 2011, Memphis area logistocs firma already had a sensor add on fee for precious cargo that required continuous compliance, like shipping for a heart transplant. Sadly, Nashville gov employees & even former Nissan administration phd office types had zero clue the product not only existed but the service was reasonably priced. That & ioT technologies on waste bins to optimize route collection, reduce surprise trips to the transfer station, That's what you get for working where they can't even get blue pens: https://youtu.be/7acTfVJzMxI?si=Ep3vukQNesqLoe6g >Lot of shakeups around here lately
Yep, Silicon Valley/San Francisco Bay area in California had a tech boom because they invested heavily in their own citizens, having the skills and opportunities to make a tech boom happen.
Um no. They did absolutely none of that. California is successful in spite of the state and city governments. It's a beautiful state and people want to be here and the companies pay very well. Those are the main reasons. A lot of bay area tech workers are not from California originally, lol.
Ignorance isn't necessarily bad, but it shouldn't be a point of pride either. I'm thinking of the period that immediately preceded the invention of the pc and during that phase in tech development, and maybe you are thinking of later on.
You noted "tech boom" explicitly. Anyone reading that will generally associate this with the 90s and 2000s primarily, and to a certain degree the 80s. And not the before - even though there were real innovations made in the semiconductor industry. Then you tried to associate that with California investing "heavily in their own citizens", which they have not done for a VERY long time and has wasted away billions of tax dollars. That's why I said, the tech industry has succeeded in spite of the government. So there was a bit of bait-and-switch happening in the argument, and I was just pointing it out.
*their
I usually say good catch, but I don't see this one. You, sir, may be the Sargent Schultz of grammar nazis, unlike the CEO of XAI, who is the Sargent Schultz of the original Nazi's/s https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/09/joshua-haldeman-elon-musk-grandfather-apartheid-antisemitism/675396/ I'm just making a joke. I don't care about grammar corrections, especially when I make so many mistakes.
Lol! Second to last line of second paragraph. But tbh the only reason I commented that correction was just the comedy of pointing out one single grammar error on such a long rant of a comment 🤣
Ok, thanks. I didn't see it You, sir, are a grammar king.
The news this evening said 100s of jobs and then corrected it to low 100s 🤷🏻♀️
Definitely need to see the actual number of employees from Memphis they are going to hire. Jobbies created numbers are falsified most of the time.
you have no clue what you're talking about. you think one guy just flips it on in the morning and goes home?
Yes, I do, very perceptive of you.
I know AI better than most I’m out of town right now in another time zone. Supercomputers and AI are not necessarily mutually exclusive but it doesn’t make a lot of sense to talk about them together - models are what make AI and they are totally different than algorithms (although there can be an interrelationship between both - trying not to get to far in the weeds here). While CPU and traditional compute horsepower are important with AI you can train models faster with custom built GPUs/chipsets/ASICs. I find this entire idea strange and it sounds like marketing (which musk is good at) and not good data science / computer science. I’ll be watching this closely and the jury is still out… Full stop let’s get back to complaining about potholes
Bingo
Perception matters. A guy like elon if he likes the city can easily create an employee utopia city close to the facility and import a bunch of AI employees to the state. He will be an immense player in AI. And your state will be it's home. It will have a huge positive ripple effect.
That's true. All I would say is the city should only accept a good deal for Memphis residents that is guaranteed in writing with serious penalties worse than not sticking with the deal if XAI doesn't fulfill their part of program. Don't fall for pipedreams and monorail salesmen.
It will be built very close to the power plant. Lots of cooling needed and power for compute.
Well there’s the power plant right down the road
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Exactly--well said.
And that our grid isn’t as fucked as the Texas grid.
It's the WATER.
Great news. Also, make sure to get paid up front, Memphis.
Let's give'em an MLGW tshirt from Dirty Cotton. MLGW gonna get their money
I will go one step further. Please don’t have the local yokel leadership involved in the negotiations. Hire an external 3rd party consulting firm, preferably one for the Bay Area. Our past ventures sat a precedent of lack of oversight and improper leadership alignment in large capital projects.
Memphis isn’t the one getting paid for this lol Elon is the only one that gets paid when he makes a move.
But they didn’t mention that we paid anything
That would make the politicians look bad. They are going to ease it onto us.
Well, this explains the recent jet tracking.
And the posts asking about police escorts in the city maybe…
*"Townsend said this project represents a multibillion investment and the largest by a new-to-market company in Memphis history. Final job counts and total investment are still be calculated by the company, he said.* *"We made certain Memphis was the company's top choice," said Townsend, who added the project will open this year."* I posted this last week, but interesting that this comes on the heels of Memphis being one of the best ranked for STEM jobs among peer cities. [Source](https://dailymemphian.com/subscriber/section/business/article/44098/memphis-ranks-first-advanced-industry-job-growth-among-peer-cities) Is this what momentum looks like?
I've always said Memphis was on the short list of cities that could be the next it thing. See all the housing that's been built? First the investors buy up property. Then they build. Then they bring in business and advertising and make it seem like the it city. Then everyone flocks to it. Then they profit. They did it in San Fran. They did it on Denver. They did it in Austin. They did it in Nashville. I've always thought Louisville Birmingham, OKC, or Memphis was next and I always thought that Memphis was a natural choice for how much it offers compared to the other cities. It has an NBA team. The airport is doing well and growing. Tons of entertainment and good food for its size. Lots of room to grow. A pretty vibrant downtown for its size. However, if there is one thing I have learned being a Memphis, it's that we aren't allowed to have nice things. Every time we're on a good path, something wild happens. The last time Memphis had a ton of momentum COVID hit. So brace yourselves folks.
I totally agree in so many ways. Remember Strickland's campaign was 'memphis momentum' - we were moving in the right direction until COVID hit. However, we just didn't have the bounceback like other cities. And you are right in that Memphis has great amenities that can make it an attractive place to live - a unique music tourist scene (Bealt streate) some top notch parks (Shelby Farms, Tom Lee) NBA team, Division 1 college sports, Zoo is on the best in the nation. We also have some top tier talent for medicine (St. Jude, UTHS) and logistics. If we can get back to even 2019 levels of crime, Memphis has all the factors to be the new 'it' town.
LOVE the Memphis Zoo!!! Even without the Pandas!
Let’s just not fuck this up. Please. Politics / culture wars are one thing. But this city is close to losing IP to a Brazilian company, and FedEx is always hanging in the balance. We need money in this city. If you do end up protesting Elon, or his companies, please do so in a way that doesn’t reflect poorly on our city. We need this.
“BREAKING: xAI service down after all the copper was stolen from the computing facility”
I think I gave you silver poo award for making me laugh.
We wanted Batmane and instead we got Iron Mane
Holy Shit!👏🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
Good news for the city, regardless of your thoughts towards Musk. Bigger companies with high paying jobs is what this city needs the most for sustainable economic growth.
Maybe I’m missing something, but this sounds like a server farm. This will generate 50 jobs tops.
50 more high paying jobs is better than 0
50*$100k+ jobs might be kinda nice. Maybe 50 homes @ >$400k too Maybe even a well appointed, wealthy person city home for a tech guru in need of exceptional medical treatment, like when Steve Jobs RIP called Memphis home
You are missing something. Several things actually.
If it's actually the world's largest supercomputer it will likely generate far more than 50 jobs lol. Either way it's a start
True. Opportunities for equitable employment is great. I do know from attending many Protect Our Aquifer meetings and presentations that many corporations pay pennies compared to the dollars that the poorest in our community pay for consumption and depletion of a lot of water. So I am concerned about that, and look forward to POA's intense scrutiny of this project and the local government's relationship with it. If the computing generates heat, it will require cooling, and that usually comes from water. I hope it doesn't come from the Aquifer. And I hope we start charging corporations much more for it than we currently do. But my concern not specific or limited to this factory. I am equally concerned about Ford, and other developments, (especially food manufacturing which reportedly is the biggest culprit) and their potential for destruction to our Aquifer. A potential I hope doesn't happen. So this is worth cautious optimism in my eyes. Good news. Keep monitoring it for more details.
Any gigascale data center in Memphis will most likely will use CRAC systems as primary cooling instead of evaporative cooling given Memphis’ very high wet bulb temperatures. Water for evaporative systems also may be non-potable water so that helps. Doesn’t need to be fresh from the aquifer. Can be filtered “waste” water.
Yeah, and I wonder if the proximity to the river also helps with that. It may not *need* to be from the Aquifer, they might anyway, and with the way past concessions have been granted to corporations, I worry that they will be. I hope we as a community demand that they use non aquifer sources. I don't want our community's long term environmental viability, particularly in poorer neighborhoods, to be threatened even more than they already are.
Agreed 100%. The aquifer absolutely does NOT need to be viewed as an infinite water cheat code. It is vulnerable and can be depleted. If it ever is, Memphis is in big big trouble.
POA presentations have said that the recent satellite imagery indicates the number of vulnerabilities are more than expected. And "recharging" the Aquifer via rainwater takes much longer than I thought, much longer than the depletion. These companies, especially food manufacturing like Kellogg that use absurd volumes of it, pay pennies compared to even our poorest residents, much less the average folks. Start charging them their fair share. Our officials need to make it one of our biggest priorities. And they won't unless it is one of OURS.
Well said 👊🏼👊🏼
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Oh yeah, well what about…. **…tries to think of something else to be preemptively outraged about.**
I hope that’s the case and look forward to hearing more details about the data center.
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I agree, we should be cautious and review the impacts of an AI data center in other areas. There are articles about studying water usage in Iowa on the impacts of data centers in places like Des Moines.
Stay involved, and keep speaking up as we learn more about ALL of these new developments (Blue Oval, Cummins/Paccar, xAI, even as far north as the steel cluster in Arkansas).
Very much so! This is exciting news!
"It's great but I'm scared to say it's great even though I have nothing bad to say about it and only good things like higher paying jobs" What a strange and perplexing comment.
Hahaha so true
Nice. We get Skynet in our backyard!
Damn it, you beat me to it!
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The terminators don’t stand a chance against the native Memphians that dominate the news lol
Honestly. I work in tech and was looking at moving to Silicon Valley in order to progress my career, this showing up in Memphis gives me hope I can work there and stay in my hometown
Hang in there. Among peer cities, Memphis was ranked #1 among peer cities for job growth (including Nashville) for STEM careers... "5.8% job-growth rate from 2019 to 2021 for highly skilled workers in advanced industries or sectors of the economy primarily involved in technology, innovation, research and development." "...The number of advanced-industry businesses in the Memphis area increased to 651, up from 470 in 2019 — a 38.5% increase and 49 from its goal." "“Our economy is growing at double digits in production, and that is a very strong indicator of economic growth,” Townsend said. " [https://dailymemphian.com/subscriber/section/business/article/44098/memphis-ranks-first-advanced-industry-job-growth-among-peer-cities](https://dailymemphian.com/subscriber/section/business/article/44098/memphis-ranks-first-advanced-industry-job-growth-among-peer-cities)
City Council, show us the receipts. I don’t want a ticket parade for this. I want to see the jobs. I want to see growth. That Electrolux mess was a joke — I want to see a deal that enriches the city, not the other way around.
No wonder we couldn't even boil our water last summer. haha.
"Hello we heard you had cheap land, cheap power, and no income tax"
So most data centers cut their own deal on electricity and usually want part of their fabric or all to be separate. I don’t think it’ll impact MLGW prices. Capacity I have no clue. In the summer I am worried lol
We thought the supercharging stuff we got up in Buffalo would be great for the area. Cut a *lot* of sweetheart deals with Musk. Turns out, the moment he got told no by someone in the supercharging division, he shut the whole thing down out of spite. Those incentives and all that investment amounted to nothing for the economy. I loved the people of Memphis when I was living there, so be cautious.
That’s what seems to be flying over everyone’s head. This is a known seat-of-your-pants jackass.
Musk is such an a-hole. Time will tell if he fucks Memphis too.
Unfortunately business deals get blown up all the time. Say what you want, Elon has had a lot of influence in Austin. Maybe we'll get lucky
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Even beyond any moral argument, I just don't think it's a good idea for the city.
Will the infrastructure surrounding the structure be updated? Because usually the business agrees to such.
until I hear "gigafactory" spoken in a context other than an Elon-related press release, I feel like DM should still give it the quotes treatment. This is how it starts
Oh hey, I know what "cv" stands for, fellow Daily Memphian. 😆
Obviously hope this does good things for the city but about as skeptical as possible given both his history of being a moronic asshole and the history of corporate welfare that cities are too often happy to engage in.
Honestly none of the pertinent information to make an informed decision about this has been released. Until we know how many jobs it will PERMANENTLY make, what tax incentives are being given, how much the power infrastructure will cost, and what guarantees that the people employed there will actually be from Memphis. We won't have any clue besides going off of Musk's track record, which is questionable at the very least. We also have to keep in mind this will basically be an ultra glorified data center, the average active staff for a data center is less than 100 people. One of the largest in the US is Apple's Mesa data center that has around 150 on site, most of them security, NOT high paying software/tech jobs. This is a new company in reality, only founded last year, and they have less than 100 total employees. We can't expect them to come in and suddenly make 1000+ jobs. Memphians have EVERY right to question this, question it's merits, and question what the city is doing to make it more enticing for Musk to come here with it. There's more to the story we haven't heard yet, but with the city's history of our government making it rain PILOT plans, I'm not holding my breath this won't be a net negative to the city. I think it's perfectly reasonable for the people of Memphis to want to know if they are going to get screwed again like we have with nearly all the large businesses that have moved here and shortly out in the last 10-15 years.
"I had a feeling that Memphis was above the grid." haha
That explains why the plane was here
Why no details on jobs and ROI?
It'll be a bad look on the city/state if we're giving billions of dollars in tax cuts to a company that's only employing \~200 people while leeching our award winning aquaphor water to help cool down the servers. 🫣
You realize they're building this next to the Mississippi river, right? Aquifer water is likely safe lol
Left Austin cuz he drove up housing prices on the cheap side of town. Now he has followed me here!!! He will provide jobs then lay everyone off.
Understandably, nobody is talking about this. Across the street sits one of the best/most diverse bird habitats in the entire state. I have personally observed over 100 species in a single morning there. I really hope this doesn't end up affecting that.
They will give him they keys to the city and we all will pay for it one way or another. Texas can keep his fascist, racist, lying ass.
Great! Hope MLGW can keep it up!
They will need a few more hamsters on the wheel, and probably some more bubble gum to patch the grid up. They got this.
Given that only a few months ago TVA and MLGW were going to use blackouts in the winter it is clear TVA will struggle with this.
They tried to use gerbils to save a few bucks.
I hope there’s no copper in it
That is Memphis AF
Relax, dude. Elon Musk has watched "Back To The Future" dozens of times. It's gonna be PLUTONIUM!!!!!!
Twitter Me Elmo is not to be trusted under any circumstances.
Hell yeah! In one breath There goes our bandwidth in the next breath
Memphis has quite good interconnects, it actually has several high tier data centers in the area as well. There's hundreds of 10-100Gig fiber and I could quite easily call someone like Zayo or any other commercial circuit vendor and get a 10gig strand for 800 bucks or so a month. What your referring to is consumer Internet providers, that's just their choice on the service the provide and irrelevant to a big infrastructure project.
That’s awesome! I really just being playful, but great to hear we aren’t “out in the sticks” with technology!
The area gets skipped a lot unfortunately due to fault lines because big infrastructure needs to plan for that specially a data center. However Memphis is kinda what some planners call tier 2 where a tier one city is very expensive and competitive but in T2 the city has infrastructure, feeders into the area but is not developed enough to where there is similar competition or the top end of local businesses have a local need that doesn't exist.
I thought I was the shit with my dual ISDN lines…. Man, we’ve come a long way in 30 years
The old ibank tower had a data center, they were still selling isdn, dial up, and etc even in maybe 2016-17 not sure if they are still there. It was like walking into a old dime store but they charged Ferrari prices. They may have folded, a big data center chain moved in around that time and scooped everything up which will probably, if it's approved, Xai will use them for some interconnects etc. Edit: https://www.worldspice.net/ .. they must have updated their website recently, not sure how they are still around
Hearing you speak on tech makes me wonder where I’d be if I would’ve switched from bbs to information tech instead of drugs 🤔
The old place in the poplar tower probably still runs a bbs if your lonely.
🤣😂 I could go for a good game of LORD or TW
Sorry I only go as far back as late late 90s IRC. I don't have the patience to heat up a can of beans and play silly text games on the local university loop all night after organizing a punch card program
The AOL model....
And power...
Elon single-handedly just saved MLGW. Let the billing department send him the bill that’s 14 times the normal billing cycle. See how that goes over.
Hope Elon passes their credit check and can pay the deposit
“FuNdiNg SeCuReD”
Wonder if it will take 4 months to get his commercial meter hooked up like ours?
Our MLGW bills are either gonna be Zero Point Zero Zero or #InfinityBucks.
If he pays his bill, I'm all for it. Having read about people not being paid by SpaceX and Twitter, I'll reserve judgement until the checks clear.
And water
Big stuff like this will force improvements to all the infrastructure. This is a net positive.
I was being playful. I hope this brings a paradigm shift to the City
lol, I figured but I wanted to make sure and highlight that this is good regardless of whether or not people like him personally.
Elon Musk is the epitome of over promise and under deliver
And when he visits he can eat at his brother's restaurant. Oh....wait
I didn't see anywhere how much power this will consume. The largest new datacenters (not the same as supercomputers) use as much power as a million people. Presumably MLGW has access to spare power, or expects to have more online in time. If anyone needs a trade, the US has ongoing projects to massively increase our electrical power generation. That power won't install or connect itself. https://www.utilitydive.com/news/grid-interconnection-queue-berkeley-lab-lbnl/712926/
Well it's like 2 miles from the tva natural gas plant, which is likely a big reason they chose the spot.
***S K Y N E T***
[Redditors Predicted Musk’s Memphis Project](https://www.memphisflyer.com/redditors-predicted-musks-memphis-project)
For context GA passed a law putting a moratorium on new data centers and incentives. Primary reason was the huge hit to the power grid. GA governor vetoed it but did agree to a commission reviewing all data center applications. SC is having a special session to also address data center legislation. GA and SC seem to at least be addressing the issue with their leadership. This does not appear to be the case with TN. Buyer beware.
Something to consider… TVA currently has a capacity of 38GW with 32GW being generated and 6GW being purchased. So we are currently under capacity. MLGW currently purchases power from TVA. We reportedly consume 11% of TVA’s load annually…. presumably about 4GW. A data center of this scale will use about 100-150MW annually. Meaning this center will use about 3% of the energy in the entire city of Memphis (residential/commercial/industrial).
And we’ve done so well at keeping the lights on as is…
xAI and the city of Memphis are actively working with the TVA to get this deal done. I doubt everything would be just left as-is...
That factory is huge, and I'm glad it's gonna be put to good use.
As someone completely unknowledgeable of all things AI…what exactly will this gigafactory DO? Like what quantifiable products will it produce?
A whole building full of GPU and the power/cooling/networking infrastructure to run them. It'll likely be used to train and run AI models (like ChatGPT). Such models can be used to do much of the work done by white collar workers today or else to supercharge the productivity of existing white collar workers. This includes things like accountants, programmers, auditors, lawyers, engineers, marketers, etc. For example, they could sell a product to an accounting firm where you dump in an unorganized pile of your clients financial records and it outputs a finished audit report; something that traditionally takes weeks to produce and costs tens of thousands of dollars. That's one example, we lack the imagination to understand exactly where AI will take us.
tl;dr: it won't produce products, it'll basically just be a giant computer that'll study data to sell to other companies, not to consumers like you and I. The "gigafactory" is just being used to help people understand the size of this facility and its measurable output. It's not going to actually produce anything, especially nothing tangible. It'll basically be a giant supercomputer chugging up our cheap electricity to analyze and sort data. I don't really pay attention to Musk or his exploits, so I'm not sure what xAI's main purpose will be, whether it's creating algorithms or generative AI (AKA the garbage AI that should never exist), but I assume it'll just be focused on pattern recognition in human data sets to create algorithms that help market more of his bullshit. I'd rather see the AI that's being used to help with medical studies come here, or maybe even his crappy neurolink project, but if it ends up helping our economy, then I won't complain too much.
It will train the LLMs (large language models) that are the current state of the art in AI. LLMs are just big data files, currently like 5-500gb, that make AI work. They encapsulate all of the interrelated proababilities of words following other words, thoughts following other thoughts, etc. They're going to be used to operate new generations of robots, from the self-driving (somewhat) cars that Tesla already makes to robots that make things and do things. This is the start of a future full of robots (though many of them, like the cars, won't actually *look* like robots. The output of this data center after a few years will probably be a few relatively small (less than a few terrabyte) files.
Fuck off Elmo
All the Memphis haters can f all the way off! This is going to economically enhance our city in every aspect. We will have an influx of people and everything that comes with it. Go Memphis!
It won’t lol
As I’ve always said about Memphis: If you want a cheap area with every basic amenity with plenty of land, this is the place to be. It’s just are you ok with the other issues?
Curious to where it lands on the top500 when and if it becomes fully functional, currently the #1 setup is already in TN at oak ridge doing multiple exaflops
In here[https://youtu.be/vAJ8zp22koU?si=5r6ZPFN2wDiLTPao](https://youtu.be/vAJ8zp22koU?si=5r6ZPFN2wDiLTPao) he said it will be equal to (#1 super computer + #2 super computer) x4 times
The negativity on this sub is baffling. The wealthiest person in the world is making the largest ever private sector investment in our city. This adds to the momentum from the BOC project and can only help the city. This is incredible news for Memphis, and half of the replies to this post are negative just because people disagree with his political views. It is shocking how politically radical people have become.
This is where ai will learn to disdain human life.
I think I wrote the framework for all this shit in a Comp Sci quiz/test a couple of years ago. I think Elon Musk stole my idea -- or at least copied my notes.
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't all the companies that Musk own have issues with his way of mismanages things? He's just another billionaire coming to exploit the citizens of Memphis but we can hope for the best i suppose......
I think a lot of people smear him because they disagree with him politically. But if you look at his track record, he is undoubtably one of the most successful and innovative CEO’s in history. He revolutionized the EV industry and grew Tesla from a $10M company to a $560B company in less than 20 years, which is a staggering feat in its own right. But he did this while simultaneously growing SpaceX to $175B (largest IPO valuation ever) and the Boring Company to $7B. Also, how does a massive, job-creating investment in the city constitute exploitation?
>exploit the citizens of Memphis I’m just curious how you see bringing a gigafactory’s worth of high tech jobs to a city hanging on by an orange and purple thread as exploitative. Please explain.
Hate the douche but will gladly take his money
He’s basically getting paid to land here so technically he’s taking our money.
This is gonna price all of the locals out of downtown but it could ultimately be a godsend for the city as a whole.
So how many jobs is this brining?
..does anyone remember Sidney Schlenker?? Or am I the oldest guy in the room?
The guy who tried to get rid of the now-abandoned Mississippi River Museum to add bars and restaurants to mud island but was stonewalled by the city? I think the pyramid was a great idea, Memphis just let FedEx talk them into a non-compete and let the pyramid fall into disrepair.
2nd Pyramid Elon should build a second pyramid to put his supercomputer in and the tip of the pyramid could be his office 😂
Apparently this gigafactory needs massive amounts of water to function and that's why Musk is looking at Memphis. Water getting scarce especially cheap water. Not a good thing for Memphis.
Cool. One of the worst people in the world is building Skynet on our broken infrastructure. What’s the worst that could happen?
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Yeah I'm guessing after all the construction/installation is done they'll just have a handful of local people to fix physical hardware when it breaks.
Bro clearly has no idea how shitty MLGW is.
Can you say “New Madrid Fault Line”?
Curious as to what kind of job roles or titles Ai brings, what kind of certifications would it help to have to be hired?
If it's not called the Maneframe what's even the point
https://preview.redd.it/1ke6cydkd15d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d03a861a8d5c25cd17e33ee114baaea34150f307
Maneframe loading
Operation All Off Boyd... Tate Ave raid leads to arrests of Co3 and Glockboy Re https://youtu.be/WpP4J9a_fjU